Some beginner questions
Big Daddy
"don't worry about scales...just play songs". I had understood playing
scales is what helped you play the songs? For instance, if I want to play
"stairway to heaven" (which all beginning guitarists want to play :-), I
have the guitar tab and it tells me what fret to play where. I try to play
just 3 or 4 notes and it seems like it would take me YEARS to pickup the
whole thing as I have to concentrate each finger move. I was actually
hoping learning scales would make it easier to play the solos of the songs I
like so that the once you see the tab, the actual finger movement would feel
more natural. Is that not the case? Or is each song so unique that you have
to go through that learning regardless? I guess I'm just having problems
"playing songs" without having the base underneath me...so how can I start
with songs and work backwards?
2) As for playing songs, I've got a good # of chords memorized as well as
the beginnings of movable bar chords. But again, when I look at tabs for
things like "Smoke on the water"...while it has the fingerings for "G5" or
"C5", it only shows 2 of the 3 strings being played. So even though I know
and play that chord, I'm only playing part of the chord for that particular
song. I notice this a lot in the songs...it lists a chord, but then only
plays 1 or 2 strings out of that chord. I guess that is common? I'm having
a hard time finding songs that play full chords completely without having to
worry about what I'm doing with my right hand.
3) I finally got a metronome, but I still have no idea how it is used. Is
there a site that explains this? I set it at quarter notes and 120 and get
the beeps, but for songs like smoke on the water...the beats doesn't match
the pace of the song in real life (in other words, if I played a chord for
every beat it doesn't match up with how the song really sounds if I listen
to it on the radio). Isn't that what it's purpose is (to help you keep
beats). Or for instance for "symphony of destruction", I can do the "buh,
buh, buumm" part but that seems to happen a lot faster than the beats in
that metronome imply. I'm not sure what I'm missing as I thought you
played a chord for each beep.
4) As for lessons..I live in Houston. My local guitar shop offers lessons
by 5-7 different people. Am I likely to get anything of value from these
guys or are they just players who want to earn a little money? Would they
be "real" teachers who could help me or players who can only help me with
chords/scales? Reason I ask is if it's just the latter, I'm already
learning those on my own. If I can already play moveable barre chords or
penatonic scales, is there anything of value a teacher like that would be
able to give me? It's only like $20/half hour so I guess I could try a few
lessons and see. I'm just wondering if I walk in there and say "OK, I can
play E,A,D, C, G (5,7,major, minor, etc), movable power chords, barre
chords, major, minor, etc.) that the guy will say "well what will I teach
him?" I guess he could at least explain those above questions to me :-)
5) related to lessons, I have a community college nearby. Would it be
worthwhile to go to some basic music classes? Or is theory not so important
at this stage?
Pt
> 5) related to lessons, I have a community college nearby. Would it be
> worthwhile to go to some basic music classes? Or is theory not so important
> at this stage?
Absolutely.
If you intend to play your instrument for the rest of your life you
should start off on the right foot.
There are two basic things to know when playing an instrument.
1. How to physically play it.
2. Understanding what you are playing (music) and why you are playing
it.
As for keeping time....Tap your foot!
Pt
David Raleigh Arnold
> 1) I see in another post guys trying to help a discouraged player by
> saying
> "don't worry about scales...just play songs". I had understood playing
> scales is what helped you play the songs? For instance, if I want to play
> "stairway to heaven" (which all beginning guitarists want to play :-), I
> have the guitar tab and it tells me what fret to play where. I try to
> play just 3 or 4 notes and it seems like it would take me YEARS to pickup
> the
> whole thing as I have to concentrate each finger move.
The scales become useful when you cease to concentrate on each finger move.
The music always comes first. As soon as you can, start on DGT.
> I was actually
> hoping learning scales would make it easier to play the solos of the songs
> I like so that the once you see the tab,
Learn to read, *now*.
> the actual finger movement would
> feel
> more natural. Is that not the case?
That is not a goal, but it will happen of course.
> Or is each song so unique that you
> have
> to go through that learning regardless? I guess I'm just having problems
> "playing songs" without having the base underneath me...so how can I start
> with songs and work backwards?
Just do it.
> 2) As for playing songs, I've got a good # of chords memorized as well as
> the beginnings of movable bar chords. But again, when I look at tabs for
> things like "Smoke on the water"...while it has the fingerings for "G5" or
> "C5", it only shows 2 of the 3 strings being played. So even though I
> know and play that chord, I'm only playing part of the chord for that
> particular
> song. I notice this a lot in the songs...it lists a chord, but then only
> plays 1 or 2 strings out of that chord. I guess that is common? I'm
> having a hard time finding songs that play full chords completely without
> having to worry about what I'm doing with my right hand.
Keep worrying about the RH.
> 3) I finally got a metronome, but I still have no idea how it is used.
Count with it as you play.
> Is
> there a site that explains this?
Google Franz metronome. They have an excellent article. Sorry, I haven't
updated the exact link.
> I set it at quarter notes and 120 and
> get the beeps, but for songs like smoke on the water...the beats doesn't
> match the pace of the song in real life (in other words, if I played a
> chord for every beat it doesn't match up with how the song really sounds
Of course it doesn't.
> if I listen
> to it on the radio). Isn't that what it's purpose is (to help you keep
> beats).
Yes, *so that* you can count and play with it.
> Or for instance for "symphony of destruction", I can do the "buh,
> buh, buumm" part but that seems to happen a lot faster than the beats in
> that metronome imply. I'm not sure what I'm missing as I thought you
> played a chord for each beep.
No. Learn to read and count. Start on my site.
> 4) As for lessons..I live in Houston. My local guitar shop offers lessons
> by 5-7 different people. Am I likely to get anything of value from these
> guys or are they just players who want to earn a little money? Would they
> be "real" teachers who could help me or players who can only help me with
> chords/scales? Reason I ask is if it's just the latter, I'm already
> learning those on my own. If I can already play moveable barre chords or
> penatonic scales, is there anything of value a teacher like that would be
> able to give me? It's only like $20/half hour so I guess I could try a
> few
> lessons and see.
There is no other way.
> I'm just wondering if I walk in there and say "OK, I can
> play E,A,D, C, G (5,7,major, minor, etc), movable power chords, barre
> chords, major, minor, etc.) that the guy will say "well what will I teach
> him?" I guess he could at least explain those above questions to me :-)
Just don't go in with a list of what you *don't* want to learn. That
is the worst possible attitude to take. You are a very poor judge of
what you should be learning. It is much to your credit that you understand
that.
> 5) related to lessons, I have a community college nearby. Would it be
> worthwhile to go to some basic music classes? Or is theory not so
> important at this stage?
Most of theory should be "learn as you go". Don't worry about it for
a while. Learning to read should give you a full plate.
Very very good questions. daveA
--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
http://www.openguitar.com/dynamic.html :::: You can play the cards
you're dealt, or improve your hand with DGT. Very easy guitar
music, solos, duets, exercises, etc. draTra...@openguitar.com
Lumpy
> ... I had
> understood playing scales is what
What, exactly, is it that made you come
to that understanding?
I'm guessing you read it somewhere.
If you learned how to play some scale
do you think that would help you to know
how to play stairway?
Every song contains notes. Notes traditionally
get grouped into scales and chords. Likewise
English language contains letters. Letters
get grouped into words and sentences. It
wouldn't be very practical or logical to
memorize letters without relating
them to something (words). It's not very practical or
logical to memorize notes/scales/chords without
relating them to something (songs).
If you knew the Am scale, for example, and the
chords formed from it, you would have the notes
A B C D E F G
and the chords
Am Bhalf dim C Dm Em F G
Wouldn't it be simpler to spend the energy simply
learning how to play Stairway than to memorize how
to play a B half dim chord?
Musicians rarely get requests for scales.
Lumpy
--
Were you the voice of Casper?
No. Popeye, Snagglepuss and Wells Fargo Bank.
www.lumpyvoice.net
Pt
> Musicians rarely get requests for scales.
>
> Lumpy
I was once asked to play 'Doe a Deer'.
Pt
Nil
alt.guitar.beginner:
> 1) I see in another post guys trying to help a discouraged player
> by saying "don't worry about scales...just play songs". I had
> understood playing scales is what helped you play the songs?
Well, if you have just decided that you will embark on a life-long
program to master the guitar, and will not, under any circumstances
deviate from the pace of that program, no matter how frustrated or
bored you might become, it might be a (arguably) valid strategy to
learn all about the technical components of music before playing the
actual music. But I don't think anybody actually does that. It
wouldn't be much fun. It would be like studying the anatomy of the
leg, learning the names of the bones and muscles and nerves, and
THEN learning to walk.
Scales are a theory that describes how and why notes relate to each
other. The music came first, then the theory. You can play music
without knowing the theory. Once you have a grasp on the practical
application, learning the theory can help you expand that grasp to
include newer and wider concepts, but you have to have feel for
melody, harmony, and rhythm before you can understand or apply those
those broader concepts.
So, I think it's best to start out playing actual music, then expand
your horizons by learning the more technical aspects of the
craft/science. An ideal program would have you learning real
performance music while simultaneously guiding you through the
technical stuff. But the song is most important.
> I guess I'm just having problems "playing songs" without having
> the base underneath me... so how can I start with songs and work
> backwards?
If you're alone, you need to either play along with the record or a
backing track, or imagine the backing music in your head, or simply
choose to play music that sounds complete on its own.
> 2) As for playing songs, I've got a good # of chords memorized as
> well as the beginnings of movable bar chords. But again, when I
> look at tabs for things like "Smoke on the water"...while it has
> the fingerings for "G5" or "C5", it only shows 2 of the 3 strings
> being played. So even though I know and play that chord, I'm only
> playing part of the chord for that particular song. I notice this
> a lot in the songs...it lists a chord, but then only plays 1 or 2
> strings out of that chord. I guess that is common? I'm having
> a hard time finding songs that play full chords completely without
> having to worry about what I'm doing with my right hand.
Sorry, I really don't understand what you're getting at above. The more
I read it the less sense it makes!
> 3) I finally got a metronome, but I still have no idea how it is
> used.
A metronome is a simplified mechanical drummer.
> 4) As for lessons..I live in Houston. My local guitar shop offers
> lessons by 5-7 different people. Am I likely to get anything of
> value from these guys or are they just players who want to earn a
> little money?
There's no way we can know how qualified you local teachers are.
Maybe you can get some personal recommendations from their other
students.
It sounds like you need some human interaction, that you're trying
to learn from books or the internet, but you've missed some basic
musical concepts that are very difficult to get across in this
medium. Those same concepts are VERY EASY to show in person. You
will save yourself a lot of wasted time and frustration if you take
some lessons and/or find some other guitar buddies to play with.
> 5) related to lessons, I have a community college nearby. Would
> it be worthwhile to go to some basic music classes? Or is theory
> not so important at this stage?
It couldn't hurt. Just don't neglect to play actual, real, fun
songs.
Ed Maier
Aw, geez. NOW you tell me. Why didn't you mention this five years ago?
Ed Maier
the-changling
> "don't worry about scales...just play songs". I had understood playing
> scales is what helped you play the songs? For instance, if I want to play
> "stairway to heaven" (which all beginning guitarists want to play :-), I
> have the guitar tab and it tells me what fret to play where. I try to play
> just 3 or 4 notes and it seems like it would take me YEARS to pickup the
> whole thing as I have to concentrate each finger move. I was actually
> hoping learning scales would make it easier to play the solos of the songs I
> like so that the once you see the tab, the actual finger movement would feel
> more natural. Is that not the case? Or is each song so unique that you have
Scales help you know where to find the notes once you know
the key of the song you are in. Learning basic chords and barres
is for more important to the beginner than scales. It was the last
thing I learned when I first started. And once you learn the scale,
the pattern remains the same. It is just that the starting point is
different on the neck depending on the key the song is in.
> to go through that learning regardless? I guess I'm just having problems
> "playing songs" without having the base underneath me...so how can I start
> with songs and work backwards?
>
> 2) As for playing songs, I've got a good # of chords memorized as well as
> the beginnings of movable bar chords. But again, when I look at tabs for
> things like "Smoke on the water"...while it has the fingerings for "G5" or
> "C5", it only shows 2 of the 3 strings being played. So even though I know
The intro of Smoke on the Water is just the D and G strings. Play them
open (unfretted) and you have a G chord (of sorts). This is the key
to
the intro. The verse is just G & F barre chords. The chorus is an open
C chord and Ab barre (4th fret) followed by a G barre. I saw some
videos
of Blackmore playing Smoke. Instead of open D & G strings, he played
the A & D strings at the 5th fret (same notes).
> and play that chord, I'm only playing part of the chord for that particular
> song. I notice this a lot in the songs...it lists a chord, but then only
> plays 1 or 2 strings out of that chord. I guess that is common? I'm having
Yes it is very common. When you have distortion mixed in, you
can get away with less :-)
> a hard time finding songs that play full chords completely without having to
> worry about what I'm doing with my right hand.
All Along the Watch Tower is just a C, Bb & Ab and go down to
an F every 4th time. Probably the easiest song there is to learn.
> 4) As for lessons..I live in Houston. My local guitar shop offers lessons
> by 5-7 different people. Am I likely to get anything of value from these
> guys or are they just players who want to earn a little money? Would they
> be "real" teachers who could help me or players who can only help me with
> chords/scales? Reason I ask is if it's just the latter, I'm already
> learning those on my own. If I can already play moveable barre chords or
> penatonic scales, is there anything of value a teacher like that would be
> able to give me? It's only like $20/half hour so I guess I could try a few
Probably. I would go for a few lessons and see what happens. That is
the only way to know for sure.
> lessons and see. I'm just wondering if I walk in there and say "OK, I can
> play E,A,D, C, G (5,7,major, minor, etc), movable power chords, barre
> chords, major, minor, etc.) that the guy will say "well what will I teach
> him?" I guess he could at least explain those above questions to me :-)
>
> 5) related to lessons, I have a community college nearby. Would it be
> worthwhile to go to some basic music classes? Or is theory not so important
> at this stage?
Any education like this is of benifiet. No reason not to learn! IMHO
it
is not a requirement to play guitar. But you will be far better off
with
the education.
--
gci...@hotmail.com
The Pentatonic Scale Explained
http://bluechainlightning.net
Lumpy
> Aw, geez. NOW you tell me.
> Why didn't you mention this five years ago?
I did but you had that lap dancer movin' all
over you at the time. I don't think you heard
anything I was saying.
Lumpy
--
Can you do that FM disc jockey voice?
Yes, but it doesn't translate well in ascii.
www.lumpyvoice.net
J. T. Laurie
mc'bride.
"Big Daddy" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tYIZh.18290$Kd3....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
Ed Maier
> Ed Maier wrote:
>
>>Aw, geez. NOW you tell me.
>>Why didn't you mention this five years ago?
>
>
> I did but you had that lap dancer movin' all
> over you at the time. I don't think you heard
> anything I was saying.
>
>
> Lumpy
Yeah, I guess my ears were kinda covered up that night.
Ed Maier
Tony Done
"Big Daddy" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tYIZh.18290$Kd3....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> saying "don't worry about scales...just play songs". I had understood
> playing scales is what helped you play the songs? For instance, if I want
> to play "stairway to heaven" (which all beginning guitarists want to play
> :-), I have the guitar tab and it tells me what fret to play where. I try
> to play just 3 or 4 notes and it seems like it would take me YEARS to
> pickup the whole thing as I have to concentrate each finger move. I was
> actually hoping learning scales would make it easier to play the solos of
> the songs I like so that the once you see the tab, the actual finger
> movement would feel more natural. Is that not the case? Or is each song
> so unique that you have to go through that learning regardless? I guess
> I'm just having problems "playing songs" without having the base
> underneath me...so how can I start with songs and work backwards?
I support the "learn songs" view. What little theory I know came from a
desire to see a pattern in the songs I play that can be transferred to other
songs or styles. I developed an interest in theory because I wanted to play
more songs. I didn't say to myself "pentatonic minors are how you play blues
and rock melodies" it was "those sounds I really like are based mostly on
pentatonic minors".
>
> 2) As for playing songs, I've got a good # of chords memorized as well as
> the beginnings of movable bar chords. But again, when I look at tabs for
> things like "Smoke on the water"...while it has the fingerings for "G5" or
> "C5", it only shows 2 of the 3 strings being played. So even though I
> know and play that chord, I'm only playing part of the chord for that
> particular song. I notice this a lot in the songs...it lists a chord, but
> then only plays 1 or 2 strings out of that chord. I guess that is common?
> I'm having a hard time finding songs that play full chords completely
> without having to worry about what I'm doing with my right hand.
A "5" or power chord only have two notes, maybe reapeated in the same or
different octaves, so it might be difficult to find a playable shape if all
the strings are used.
Jim
> "Big Daddy" <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:tYIZh.18290$Kd3....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>
>>1) I see in another post guys trying to help a discouraged player by
>>saying "don't worry about scales...just play songs". I had understood
>>playing scales is what helped you play the songs? For instance, if I want
>>to play "stairway to heaven" (which all beginning guitarists want to play
>>:-), I have the guitar tab and it tells me what fret to play where. I try
>>to play just 3 or 4 notes and it seems like it would take me YEARS to
>>pickup the whole thing as I have to concentrate each finger move. I was
>>actually hoping learning scales would make it easier to play the solos of
>>the songs I like so that the once you see the tab, the actual finger
>>movement would feel more natural. Is that not the case? Or is each song
>>so unique that you have to go through that learning regardless? I guess
>>I'm just having problems "playing songs" without having the base
>>underneath me...so how can I start with songs and work backwards?
>
>
> I support the "learn songs" view. What little theory I know came from a
> desire to see a pattern in the songs I play that can be transferred to other
> songs or styles. I developed an interest in theory because I wanted to play
> more songs. I didn't say to myself "pentatonic minors are how you play blues
> and rock melodies" it was "those sounds I really like are based mostly on
> pentatonic minors".
That's how I learned. I took a few months of lessons. I never learned
theory or even scales. I wish I would've, though. I suppose it's never
too late.
FLY135
> "don't worry about scales...just play songs". I had understood playing
> scales is what helped you play the songs? For instance, if I want to play
> "stairway to heaven" (which all beginning guitarists want to play :-), I
> have the guitar tab and it tells me what fret to play where. I try to play
> just 3 or 4 notes and it seems like it would take me YEARS to pickup the
> whole thing as I have to concentrate each finger move.
Big Daddy, as a beginner I can relate to what you are saying. It
never hurts to learn theory, scales, and the location of notes on the
fretboard. But if you want to learn solos I can tell you what's
working for me and I've only been at it for a short while. First I
stated trying to read tabs but even though I could see where to put my
fingers, I couldn't get the feel of the rhythm and it didn't sound
like much. Next I went to Guitar Pro (a tab player like the freeware
Powertab). This has helped me immensely and is still my most valued
training tool. But even still I found that I wasn't really able to
get a grip on the sound and proper tempo. So next I got a Tascam
CD0GT1 guitar trainer, which plays the CD but can slow it down while
maintaining pitch. Now I use Guitar Pro for tabs and playing along,
but I stop after I get a feel for the basic tab and then use the
Tascam to play along with the real song at the slowest tempo and work
up to full speed.
> 2) As for playing songs, I've got a good # of chords memorized as well as
> the beginnings of movable bar chords. But again, when I look at tabs for
> things like "Smoke on the water"...while it has the fingerings for "G5" or
> "C5", it only shows 2 of the 3 strings being played. So even though I know
> and play that chord, I'm only playing part of the chord for that particular
> song. I notice this a lot in the songs...it lists a chord, but then only
> plays 1 or 2 strings out of that chord. I guess that is common? I'm having
> a hard time finding songs that play full chords completely without having to
> worry about what I'm doing with my right hand.
You will learn to only hit the strings that are called for. You don't
have to be all that accurate. Those smoke chords are power chords.
They are meant to be played distorted and will sound terrible if all
the notes in a stand chord are used. Even the 3 chord power chords
are only 2 notes, root, 5th and the root an octave up. Sometimes even
clean chords sound best when strumming different strings on the
rhythm. I made a video lesson for Bad Moon Rising on youtube that
shows this. If you search for raleydude (my user name) you will see
it. I'm still a beginner but I thought that what I did could help
other beginners so I posted it.
Sometimes tabs are more complicated than is necessary. You can
frequently drop a few notes and still get a good rendition.
> 3) I finally got a metronome, but I still have no idea how it is used. Is
> there a site that explains this? I set it at quarter notes and 120 and get
> the beeps, but for songs like smoke on the water...the beats doesn't match
> the pace of the song in real life (in other words, if I played a chord for
> every beat it doesn't match up with how the song really sounds if I listen
> to it on the radio). Isn't that what it's purpose is (to help you keep
> beats). Or for instance for "symphony of destruction", I can do the "buh,
> buh, buumm" part but that seems to happen a lot faster than the beats in
> that metronome imply. I'm not sure what I'm missing as I thought you
> played a chord for each beep.
You need to use the drums in the song you are playing with for
timing. It's probably near impossible to get a metronome in sync with
an actual song. The metronome is for playing by yourself.
> 4) As for lessons..I live in Houston. My local guitar shop offers lessons
> by 5-7 different people. Am I likely to get anything of value from these
> guys or are they just players who want to earn a little money? Would they
> be "real" teachers who could help me or players who can only help me with
> chords/scales? Reason I ask is if it's just the latter, I'm already
> learning those on my own.
I wish I had taken lessons way back when I first wanted to learn and
gave up (more than a few times). But nowadays there are a lot more
tools available to learn on your own. It never hurts to give a lesson
a try. I've never had any but I'd probably know a lot more today if I
had started earlier and taken lessons. The computer and internet
resources have finally enabled me to learn on my own.
> 5) related to lessons, I have a community college nearby. Would it be
> worthwhile to go to some basic music classes? Or is theory not so important
> at this stage?
Some theory is important. You can and will pick it up from the
internet if you look.
Lumpy
> That's how I learned. I took a few months
> of lessons. I never learned theory or even
> scales. I wish I would've, though. I suppose
> it's never too late.
One of the nice things about learning songs first,
theory later, is that the theory "makes more sense"
because you have known examples to relate it to.
Imagine being stone cold zero and having someone
try and explain "A minor chord is like a Major chord
with a flatted 3rd". Even if you understood the concepts
of flatted and 3rds, it still isn't really related to
anything.
But imagine the same scenario but you had already been
used to playing A and Am chords. You might be able to make
the simple connection and say "So the Maj and minor chords
are the same just with one note different".
Or take something more complex. I vi ii V chord progressions.
Out of the blue you might not have anything to relate it to.
But if you've already been playing "I've Got Rhythm" or any
of the other ten zillion songs using I vi ii V you could make
the simple connection.
Same with I IV V or anything else.
Using the OP's example, it is probably more logical to learn
to play STH and then learn the name of the Am scale that fits
it than to learn the structure of the scale first.
Lumpy
--
You were the "OPERATION" game voice?
Yes. Take out wrenched ankle.
www.lumpyvoice.com
Sean
Bam
someone asked me what key a song I was playing was in.
i couldn't answer them, so I began to take theory lessons. I was already a
pretty good player at the time.
So learning theory and scales at that point did help me a lot. It helped me
work out better solos by knowing what good stop notes were.
Lessons will not hurt you, at any point in your playing career.
So I say learn the music, play the songs.
As far as the metronome, if you have the tab to a song, many times it tells
you the time of it. Just set the device to the same time and tempo.
If you know the beat of the song, you should be able to listen to the song,
and set the tempo accordingly.
RichL
news:tYIZh.18290$Kd3....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
For me, I got the theory part from taking piano lessons as a child. Then
when it came to guitar, I got a few Mel-Bay books to learn chords, then just
listened. Fortunately, my piano teacher had taken great pains to develop my
ear, and by the time it came to playing guitar I could pick notes and chords
out just by listening. I took a few guitar lessons here and there (probably
no more than 5 total) to help me over the rough spots, but basically I'm
self taught.
Greg Cisko
"RichL" <rple...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9OSdncxmaZsvkqXb...@comcast.com...
> For me, I got the theory part from taking piano lessons as a child. Then
> when it came to guitar, I got a few Mel-Bay books to learn chords, then
> just
> listened. Fortunately, my piano teacher had taken great pains to develop
> my
> ear, and by the time it came to playing guitar I could pick notes and
> chords
> out just by listening. I took a few guitar lessons here and there
> (probably
> no more than 5 total) to help me over the rough spots, but basically I'm
> self taught.
Maybe I am a freak of nature. I have not taken any lessons at all.
Bam
> For me, I played for years without knowing any theory or scales really.
> Then
> someone asked me what key a song I was playing was in.
> i couldn't answer them, so I began to take theory lessons. I was already a
> pretty good player at the time.
>
> So learning theory and scales at that point did help me a lot. It helped
> me work out better solos by knowing what good stop notes were.
> Lessons will not hurt you, at any point in your playing career.
>
> So I say learn the music, play the songs.
> As far as the metronome, if you have the tab to a song, many times it
> tells you the time of it. Just set the device to the same time and tempo.
>
> If you know the beat of the song, you should be able to listen to the
> song, and set the tempo accordingly.
>
now when I say i began to learn theory, it wasn't so much as in formal
lessons, as it was in doing lessons on my own. At the time, I played in a
high school jazz band. And I was learning new chords such as 13th chords.
So I said, what better place to begin learning theory. I started with the
master theory books, and in doing that on my own, I learned a good bit. My
girlfriend at the time also played music, so she checked my work.
oasysco
> 1) I see in another post guys trying to help a discouraged player by saying
> "don't worry about scales...just play songs". I had understood playing
> scales is what helped you play the songs? For instance, if I want to play
> "stairway to heaven" (which all beginning guitarists want to play :-), I
> have the guitar tab and it tells me what fret to play where. I try to play
> just 3 or 4 notes and it seems like it would take me YEARS to pickup the
> whole thing as I have to concentrate each finger move. I was actually
> hoping learning scales would make it easier to play the solos of the songs I
> like so that the once you see the tab, the actual finger movement would feel
> more natural. Is that not the case? Or is each song so unique that you have
> to go through that learning regardless? I guess I'm just having problems
> "playing songs" without having the base underneath me...so how can I start
> with songs and work backwards?
I played music with a guy who could play circles around me. He was the
blackest white guy blues player I've ever played with. He had no clue
of the scales he was using or of the chords. That was music in the
purest form, imo.
For the rest of us mere mortals, we need the engineering structure of
theory, of which scales are but one part.
I agree with whoever said play music not scales, but starting out when
there is no music in your "voice", learning simple scales is a good
way to start your fingers working in a fashion they need to to make
music.
Learn the pentatonic major scale and the major scale and you will have
learned 75% of what you need to make music, including the minor
pentatonic and the natural minor scale since the major and minors are
the same fingering.
>
> 2) As for playing songs, I've got a good # of chords memorized as well as
> the beginnings of movable bar chords. But again, when I look at tabs for
> things like "Smoke on the water"...while it has the fingerings for "G5" or
> "C5", it only shows 2 of the 3 strings being played. So even though I know
> and play that chord, I'm only playing part of the chord for that particular
> song. I notice this a lot in the songs...it lists a chord, but then only
> plays 1 or 2 strings out of that chord. I guess that is common? I'm having
> a hard time finding songs that play full chords completely without having to
> worry about what I'm doing with my right hand.
They're power chords as I'm sure someone int his thread has already
mentioned. Eventually, you should be able to play the whoel barre
chord, the 2-3 string power chord, or any portion thereof.
>
> 3) I finally got a metronome, but I still have no idea how it is used. Is
> there a site that explains this? I set it at quarter notes and 120 and get
> the beeps, but for songs like smoke on the water...the beats doesn't match
> the pace of the song in real life (in other words, if I played a chord for
> every beat it doesn't match up with how the song really sounds if I listen
> to it on the radio). Isn't that what it's purpose is (to help you keep
> beats). Or for instance for "symphony of destruction", I can do the "buh,
> buh, buumm" part but that seems to happen a lot faster than the beats in
> that metronome imply. I'm not sure what I'm missing as I thought you
> played a chord for each beep.
If the metronome is screwing you up, buy a cheap drum box like a $60
Digitech MFX pedal with built-in drums. It'll be easier to ehar what
you are supposed to do.
>
> 4) As for lessons..I live in Houston. My local guitar shop offers lessons
> by 5-7 different people. Am I likely to get anything of value from these
> guys or are they just players who want to earn a little money? Would they
> be "real" teachers who could help me or players who can only help me with
> chords/scales? Reason I ask is if it's just the latter, I'm already
> learning those on my own. If I can already play moveable barre chords or
> penatonic scales, is there anything of value a teacher like that would be
> able to give me? It's only like $20/half hour so I guess I could try a few
> lessons and see. I'm just wondering if I walk in there and say "OK, I can
> play E,A,D, C, G (5,7,major, minor, etc), movable power chords, barre
> chords, major, minor, etc.) that the guy will say "well what will I teach
> him?" I guess he could at least explain those above questions to me :-)
The best teacher will ask you what you want to accomplish; what kind
of songs do you want to play; how do you want to play (by ear, sight
reading, tabs). He then should tailor your lessons to your goals. Not
everybody wants to play in a band; not everybody needs to sight read.
Explain your goals and ask him what course of action he recommends.
And then don't be afraid to switch teachers if after a time, you are
not reaching some of your initial goals because of the direction of
the teacher.
>
> 5) related to lessons, I have a community college nearby. Would it be
> worthwhile to go to some basic music classes? Or is theory not so important
> at this stage?
That's a tough one. Basic theory can help, but you may find it
overwhelming if you can't replicate the exercises on your guitar to
show you how it applies.
Greg
Roger E. Blumberg
> From: oasysco <wilder...@yahoo.com>
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Newsgroups: alt.guitar.beginner
> Date: 2 May 2007 07:17:37 -0700
> Subject: Re: Some beginner questions
>
> I played music with a guy who could play circles around me. He was the
> blackest white guy blues player I've ever played with. He had no clue
> of the scales he was using or of the chords. That was music in the
> purest form, imo.
You almost sound as if you were paying attention to your own observations,
but alas your subsequent comments reveal otherwise.
> For the rest of us mere mortals, we need the engineering structure of
> theory, of which scales are but one part.
>
> I agree with whoever said play music not scales, but starting out when
> there is no music in your "voice", learning simple scales is a good
> way to start your fingers working in a fashion they need to to make
> music.
Pray tell who has no music in their voice?
> Learn the pentatonic major scale and the major scale and you will have
> learned 75% of what you need to make music, including the minor
> pentatonic and the natural minor scale since the major and minors are
> the same fingering.
this is absolute horse shit.
>> 5) related to lessons, I have a community college nearby. Would it be
>> worthwhile to go to some basic music classes? Or is theory not so important
>> at this stage?
> That's a tough one. Basic theory can help, but you may find it
> overwhelming if you can't replicate the exercises on your guitar to
> show you how it applies.
>
> Greg
And if you _do_ find it overwhelming, and you _can't_ apply it to your
guitar _as you go_ have a shitty teacher, period -- which is to say you have
no teacher.
Roger
Charmed Snark
alt.guitar.beginner:
> Jim wrote:
>> That's how I learned. I took a few months
>> of lessons. I never learned theory or even
>> scales. I wish I would've, though. I suppose
>> it's never too late.
>
> One of the nice things about learning songs first,
> theory later, is that the theory "makes more sense"
> because you have known examples to relate it to.
>
> Imagine being stone cold zero and having someone
> try and explain "A minor chord is like a Major chord
> with a flatted 3rd". Even if you understood the concepts
> of flatted and 3rds, it still isn't really related to
> anything.
>
> Lumpy
But if you explained to your Eskimo that the 5th was like playing
with fire and the flatted 3rd was a block of ice, I'd bet he'd
understand sumptin'. ;-)
Snark.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Derek
>Musicians rarely get requests for scales.
I remember a gig once where we got all kinds of requests for scales.
Pentatonics, Natural and Harmonic Minors, the whole shebang. I was
doing fine, on a roll until someone requested the 7th mode of the
Hungarian Minor scale.
Dude, I was shamed that night, and vowed to never be in that situation
again. So after woodshedding, I can play you any scale in any key.
You want it ascending, done. Descending, no prob. Got an itch for a
Cross Modal Lydian Chromatic Dominant, peice of cake.
Yep, never met a scale I didn't like or couldn't master. Problem is,
I am having trouble finding a band who really appreciates my scalular
abilities. Ideas?
Lumpy
> I am having trouble finding a band
> who really appreciates my scalular
> abilities. Ideas?
Chicago suburbs. There's always a band forming there.
Lumpy
--
In Your Ears for 40 Years
www.lumpymusic.com
Derek
Aw man, that wasn't nice. Funny, but not very nice. :-)