Definition of a Beginner Guitarist
wrightj
Almost two years into studying the guitar, and I'm wondering how to
define the term "beginner" guitarist.
Would most of you agree that the instrument gives up its secrets slowly?
What criteria would you use to define moving from the "beginning" stage
into the "intermediate" stage?
Mr Scary Guitarist
technically profficient as some who ain't been playing very long.
I would say a beginner is someone who isn't confident in their ability to
learn a cover song - solo and all - in about a week.
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"wrightj" <ai...@ncf.ca> wrote in message news:3CE2E56D...@ncf.ca...
ruth
>
> How do you define "beginner" guitarist?
>
life, but i haven't played it for most of my life. so i wouldn't call
myself a beginner guitarist, just a rotten guitarist.
> Almost two years into studying the guitar, and I'm wondering how to
> define the term "beginner" guitarist.
>
i think the difference is that a beginner is still learning the basics,
but that someone who's learnt all the basics and has huge breaks and
then goes back to it, has a long-term memory to uncover rather than an
unconcious ability.
> Would most of you agree that the instrument gives up its secrets slowly?
>
well yes. i pickt it up yesterday after i got rsi from taking it on
again after a huge break; while i cud play what was in my head for days
which is why i pickt it up, there's still a huge amount to learn about
the tune i picked out the chords for.... for example.
> What criteria would you use to define moving from the "beginning" stage
> into the "intermediate" stage?
when you feel confident that you understand, if have not memorised, how
the fretboard works; that you know the basic chords and the idea of
them, ie how to move up the fretboard, how to play each chord three
times; that you've got the basic idea of strumming; you can play a tune,
and that you can teach someone else the basics....
but as i say - i'm a rotten guitarist, though i can't seem to give up
the idea of becoming one!
--
::::~~~~rOOth~~~~::::
Ian Spencer
I'd say a beginner is one who:
1) Cannot play a full set of the common chords in at least one position
(i.e. major, minor, major 7 minor 7)
2) cannot control strumming patterns with some damping techniques.
3) Can't confidently change between common chords.
Obviously there are degrees and different techniques, so there isn't an
absolute measure.
Ian
Ian Spencer
Oh, I might add something about tuning in there too ;)
Ian
CyberSerf
have fun.
Cheers, CS
--
---
The opinions, comments, and advice offered by me here are mine alone.
As such, they carry as much weight as a feather in a snow storm.
Gear Page at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/cybrserf/Gear.htm
"wrightj" <ai...@ncf.ca> wrote in message news:3CE2E56D...@ncf.ca...
Graham
However, I tend to go for these Guitar mags, where their features are
usually rated from Beginner to Advanced /Professional level. By their
reckoning, I'm intermediate.
Despite my limited knowledge, I taught basic guitar to a mate who knew that
a guitar has a fat end and a long skinny end. Thick strings and thin strings
and it will take more than a few hours to be able to play Sultans of Swing
solo. I would class him as a beginner.
Some months later, he learned a dozen chords, tuning, basic music theory,
strumming patterns and how to use a pick. I promoted him to "novice".
(and he still can't play "Sultans"). When he can keep up with me, I would
call him intermediate.
Graham
Can
think its when you are able to play the music in your head on your guitar.
The point that you are able to get that sound out, but yet it still sounds
kind of "foggy" or lacking in direction.... is when you change from a
beginner to an intermediate player.
I've been playing for 5 years.... I don't know any of the tech stuff behind
a guitar. I just learned how to read tab maybe a week ago.... but I can
play the music that I hear in my head. I don't feel like I am a beginner.
wrightj <ai...@ncf.ca> wrote in message news:3CE2E56D...@ncf.ca...
Christopher Roberts
>Message-id: <3CE2E56D...@ncf.ca>
>
>How do you define "beginner" guitarist?
>
It can be seen as being very subjective. I've thought about this a great deal.
IMHO I would consider the begginer stage of guitar as being those things which
are foundational to playing. I've listed some things at the bottom. Further I
would consider advanced as being those things which cannot be reached by only
possessing knowledge of a beginner level. Therefore i would consider
intermediate studies as those which would lead the player to where they can
take on advanced studies.
Amoung Foundational things I would consider understanding musical communication
(TAB, diagrams, standard notation), knowing a small set of common chords
(major, minor, dom7), being able to somehow tune. knowing the parts of the
guitar, being able to keep a simple rhythm, and change chords without stopping.
>Almost two years into studying the guitar, and I'm wondering how to
>define the term "beginner" guitarist.
>
>Would most of you agree that the instrument gives up its secrets slowly?
>
I would say that. In fact, that's the best reason for taking on a teacher, to
reduce that learning curve. Now i've had several bad experiences with teachers
but i still believe that sitting down with someone can help in several ways
that other forms of learning can't (answers to specific questions, feedback,
pointers to other resources, etc.). having said that, there are other forms of
media and teachers besides the in your face , $30/hr type. One of the best
places to get lessons is to put on a favorite song and learn from the
recording.
>What criteria would you use to define moving from the "beginning" stage
>into the "intermediate" stage?
>
Below is a graded list that I use with my students. I've divided beginner into
4 levels. About level 4 i would consider beginning intermediate.
take these with a grain of salt, this is just 1 approach. there are people who
can't do something (or refuse to ) who continue to advance to an extraordinairy
level. I'm thinking of Judy Collins who went into alternate tunings because she
didn't want to play an F barre chord.
The following is just a friendly guide.
Some point in the future this will be on my site along with answers, resources,
and a grading key.
Peace,
Christopher Roberts
snglstri...@aol.com
Where are you on the beginner's scale?
The following questionaire will help you find some context for what you do know
and what you don't. I've distinguished four levels of beginners.
LEVEL ONE
Q1.) Can you name the parts of the guitar? yes or no. Then list the parts and
draw a guitar with the parts listed.
Q2.) Do you know how to hold your guitar? Do you know where to place your
fingers?
Q3.) Do you know where your thumb goes?
Q4.) Do you know how to hold a pick (a plectrum)?
Q5.) Do you know how to pluck a string? With a finger? With a pick? Can you
physically do both of these things?
Q6.) Can you physically hold down a string? If so, for how long before your
finger hurts?
Q7.) In which direction are the strings numbered?
Q8.) What letters are used for notes? How many letters? How many notes are
there?
Q9.) What are the names of the strings (in letters) in order?
Q10.) What is the tuning called? Can you tune your guitar?
Q12.) Can you read chord diagrams? Could you place your fingers in the right
place for a chord that you've never seen before?
Q13.) Can you downstrum? upstrum?
Q14.) Can you pick (with a pick) up and down on a single string?
Q15.) Do you know, and can you play from memory the following chords: E, A, D,
G, C ?
If you play electric:
E1.) Do you know how to connect your guitar to an amp? Do you know how to turn
on your amp?
E2.) Do you know how to control the volume of your guitar? From your guitar?
from the amp?
E3.) Can you name the parts of the guitar that make it electric?
Can you explain what those things do?
E4.) Can you name the parts of your amp? Do you know what the knobs are called,
and what they do?
LEVEL TWO
Q16.) Can you strum in time? Can you count in time? Can you keep an even beat?
Q17.) Can you read TABlature? What is it, and how is it written? What does it
tell you, what doesn't it tell you?
Q18.) Can you play from memory the following chords: Em, Am, Cm, Dm, Gm?
Q19.) What type of chord is E5?
Q20.) Can you play at least one scale?
Q21.) Do you know which note is the root note in every chord/scale pattern that
you know?
Q22.) Can you identify and trouble-shoot the causes of bad sounding notes that
you play?
Q23.) Can you play through chords that you know, and change chords without
stopping?
Q24.) Can you play from a strumming pattern?
Q25.) Can you alternate pick?
Q26.) Can you play a bass-note strum? How about an alternating bass-note strum?
For electric players:
E5.) What do the pickups do? How can you switch between them?
E6.) What do the tone knobs do?
E7.) What does the gain do on your amp?
E8.) What kinds of effects exist, and how does an effect work? how do you
connect them?
LEVEL THREE:
Q27.) How many songs can you play all the way through?
Q28.) How much time do you spend studying? Practicing? Playing songs? Noodling?
Q29.) Have you picked a genre (type of music) to concentrate in?
Q30.) Can you play from memory the following chords: A7,B7,C7,D7,E7,G7.
Q31.) Can you play Barre chords? Which ones?
Q32.) Can you read standard notation? Can you sight read 1rst position?
Q33.) Can you play hammer-ons, pull-offs, trills, slides, vibrato, bent notes?
Q34.) Can you tell by ear whether a chord is major or minor, or other?
Q35.) Do you know what a chord progression is?
Q36.) What do I-IV-V and i-iv-v mean? Can you play them? In how many keys?
Q37.) Can you play a major scale? In how many keys?
Q38.) Can you recognize rhythmic notation and symbols (rests, repeats, tempos,
dynamics, etc.)
Q39.) Can you distinguish time signatures by ear?
for electric players:
E9.) Can you tell by ear when the following effects are being used: distortion,
chorus, reverb, delay, flanger/phaser?
E10.) Can you explain what the above effects do?
E11.) What does EQ do? What does compression and sustain do?
E12.) What non-electric components of the guitar affect the tone of the guitar?
E13.) How will arranging the effects in different orders affect the final
sound?
LEVEL FOUR:
Q.40) Can you play the following chords: sus4, sus2, 6, add9, m7, maj7. In how
many keys?
Q41.) Can you perform simple finger picking? Can you finger pick a chord from a
picking pattern? What are the names of the fingers of the picking hand?
Q42.) Have you developed caluses?
Q43.) Can you play different voicings of the same chord from the same shape?
Q44.) Can you play moveable scales?
Q45.) Do you know where the 5 is in the chords you know (all of them)?
Q46.) Do you know what all of the notes in a chord are?
Q47.) Do you know what an interval is? How many can you name?
Q48.) Do you know exactly how intervals map out on the fretboard?
Q49.) Have you been playing for more than 3 months? 6 months? 1 year?
Q50.) Estimate the # of hours you've studied/practiced the guitar (not song
playing).
Q51.) Can you play at least 3 songs all the way through by memory?
Q52.) How do you feel about theory?
a.) don't need it, b.) not ready for it, c.) unsure what it is, d.) slowly
progressing through it, e.) it's a necessary evil, f.) can't learn enough, g.)
ecstatic about it.
Q53.) Do you have a systematic approach to learning? How do you decide what to
learn?
Q54.) How do you feel about teaching others?
Ron
What accomplishments mark progress out of the Beginner phase?
What do you call the next step?
Intermediate? How wide is THAT range?
Ron
(Beginning to learn some more stuff after an 18 year hiatus)
Graham
"Ron" <rons...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dd01d487.02051...@posting.google.com...
> Seems like the question is REALLY- When is one no longer a "Beginner?"
>
> What accomplishments mark progress out of the Beginner phase?
>
> What do you call the next step?
>
> Intermediate? How wide is THAT range?
The gap between the ability to tune a guitar and when you can call yourself
a professional musician, I suppose.
Graham
Tidus
I ask lots of basic questions on this newsgroup and have been playing
for only 3-4 months. That qualifies me as a newbie. I guess I would
consider myself a beginner if I were to stop asking basic questions.
Not yet have thought further enough ahead to know when the
begginer/intermediate line is.
Ron
> Wright wrote:
>
> Amoung Foundational things I would consider understanding musical communication
> (TAB, diagrams, standard notation), knowing a small set of common chords
> (major, minor, dom7), being able to somehow tune. knowing the parts of the
> guitar, being able to keep a simple rhythm, and change chords without stopping.
Seems quite reasonable.
>
> The following is just a friendly guide.
And that's about all that anyone's list could ever be. So many
opinions, sometimes more than one per person!
I find that I'm a mixture of ignorance and high-level achievement by
this scale.
I can do some things up into the high level criteria but I cannot do
some of the things down at the low levels (mostly having to do with
electrics I've never touched and music theory)
Seems like each time I approach the topic of music theory I am
repulsed by an unseen force-field. (even though I am an engineer by
training and profession!)
Ron
(28 year guitar owner, played a bunch of songs fingerstyle early then
went dormant for many, many years. Getting back into it now - you're
never too old to enjoy your guitar.)
gstringbuzz
and keeping the correct tempo. The music you play are just notes/chords on
a page.
Intermediate - when you start to put "your own touch" to what you are
playing. You see the song more as music than notes - you know where the
song is going and the music is only a reference.
Expert - When the guitar is an extension of who you are and your brain is
disconnected from what you are doing.
I know it sounds deep and funky but that what it means to me. I've been
playing for 10+ years and still border on the low Intermediate. Seems like
everytime I think I got it, the guitar gives up a new "secret" or I kind a
get a deeper meaning to something I've already learned.
heavy...
wrightj
Well thought out and very useful analysis: thank you.
Here's something from the rec.mus.jazz.guitar on subject. I trust you'll find it a
useful addition to your knowlege base.
Subject: Re: How long does it take? Date:
Fri, 17 May 2002 20:58:25 GMT
From: Greg D <oas...@cox.net>
Organization:Cox Communications
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
References:1
I just finished my Master's thesis on this very topic.
I applied numerous sophisticated scientific test and measurement techniques
including Puldaleg's Learning Curve Differential Analsysis, O'comeon's
Upthinking Assessment, and Puhleeze's Analytical Thinking and Learning
Model.
From my exhaustive research, I conclude precisely that the length of time to
become a proficient jazz guitarist is given by the following table. These
measurements were confirmed by over 3 weeks of test subject analysis.
Age started #Years to attain proficiency (assuming proper training
and practice)
4 12
6 8
8 7
10 6
15 8
20 13
30 15
50 14
As you can clearly see, age 10 is the optimum time to begin learning. After
that, it takes subjects longer to learn, evening out by age 30.
There you have it! Wrapped up nice and neat with full scientific support.
CyberSerf
It all seems so hopeless....sigh...
-CS
--
---
The opinions, comments, and advice offered by me here are mine alone.
As such, they carry as much weight as a feather in a snow storm.
Gear Page at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/cybrserf/Gear.htm
"wrightj" <ai...@ncf.ca> wrote in message news:3CE586E3...@ncf.ca...
Shakti
Shakti
"CyberSerf" <nospam....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:FQgF8.21462$oF2.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Jim Wayne
My favorite was marble. (Where did you think the term "rock guitar" came
from, anyway?)
I'll never forget the day I misplaced my marble guitar. It was the fourth
one I had mislaid, and it caused all my friends to say, "You know, Jim has
lost all his marbles."
So true!
Jim Wayne
(Who also had a basalt guitar, but was always taking it for granite)
"Shakti" <e...@dfa.ewe> wrote in message
news:9VjF8.94434$fW5.16...@typhoon.atl.ipsvc.net...
Import Car Fan
According to the chart, an 8 year old will be proficient at
age 15, but a 4 year old will be proficient one year later
at age 16. That doesn't seem right to me. Why would
it take longer on average the *earlier* you start?
BTW, if it seems hopeless, what motivates you to
continue?
"CyberSerf" <nospam....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:FQgF8.21462$oF2.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Damn...that means I peeked over 25 years ago!
>
> It all seems so hopeless....sigh...
>
> -CS
>
>
CyberSerf
gnat.
Cheers, CS
--
---
The opinions, comments, and advice offered by me here are mine alone.
As such, they carry as much weight as a feather in a snow storm.
Gear Page at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/cybrserf/Gear.htm
"Import Car Fan" <dsh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u9sF8.22703$D41.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
CyberSerf
continue...I could say it's the fun of it, 'cuz it is that, but I guess when
you get right down to it, mostly it's the $225 per night, 3 nights a
week...it's my GAS allowance ;-)
Actually, I really don't believe the chart...proficiency is a relative
thing. I am constantly learning new things, new chord voicings, new
progressions, getting new sounds. I got my first guitar when I was 5 years
old...still have it. By 15, I was certainly better than I was 10 years
earlier, but I most certainly did not stop learning then...I started busking
and gigging regularly at 16. Now that I'm forty, I can clearly see how
little I knew back then...and when I'm sixty (God willing), I hope to
perceive how little I knew when I was forty. I believe if you stop learning,
you stop being creative.
It is possible to learn at least 1 new thing each day, but you have to pay
attention because the lessons are sometimes subtle and it's easy to miss
them.
Cheers, CS
--
---
The opinions, comments, and advice offered by me here are mine alone.
As such, they carry as much weight as a feather in a snow storm.
Gear Page at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/cybrserf/Gear.htm
"Import Car Fan" <dsh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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>