What is a D13 chord?
I. B. Pickin
Howard Ding
>
> ...and how the heck to I play it? Is it like a 6th and a 7th or something?
A full 13th chord has the 1 3 5 b7 9 11 and 13 of the scale. So a D13
would have D F# A C E G B.
To play such a thing on guitar, one typically has to leave out notes.
One of the simplest useful voicings is something like:
e:X
B:12
G:11
D:10
A:X
E:10
This gets you the root, 3, b7 and 13, so does a reasonable job of
conveying the flavor of the chord.
--
Howard Ding
<had...@att.net>
http://math.sunysb.edu/~hading http://thunder.prohosting.com/~hading
Chuck
wrote:
>...and how the heck to I play it? Is it like a 6th and a 7th or something?
Oh boy!
A 13th chord is a bit hard to explain to someone that doesn't have
some basic theory understanding. How much do you have? ;o)
Do you understand what is required to make: [1] a major triad? [2] A
9th chord? If so, just add the 13th note to the 9th chord you've
already constructed.
If not, then you really need to start your theory out at a point a
little closer to "go".
A 13th chord is 1+3+5+b7+9+13. Not necessarily in that order.
Do you understand that? If not, you need to back up and spend a little
time in learning basic fretboard theory.
Now the truth be, in actual usage the guitarist will often "cheat" on
chords that are as extended as a 13th chord is. It takes all six
strings to make a complete and correct 13th chord. However, in actual
usage the guitarist will quite often "imply" the chord by playing only
part of the required notes. Often the bass will be complimenting what
the guitarist is doing and the result is that what the audience
actually hears will be a complete and correct 13th chord.
How do you play a 13th chord? Well, like most chords, there are
several ways. Here's one ...
C13:
1rst string at 6th fret ... A=13
2nd string at 3rd fret ... D=9
3rd string at 3rd fret ... B=b7
4th string at 2nd fret ... E=3
5th string at 3rd fret ... C=1 or "root"
6th string at 3rd fret ... G=5 *In this particular chord form, this
would be one of the notes that would often be ommitted by the
guitarist ... but it's really easy to play.
Does that answer your question?
Daniel Seung Pugliese
<snip>
Very good post, Chuck!
****************************************************************************
Pugs (Daniel Seung Pugliese) INTP pu...@execpc.com
"You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me!"
****************************************************************************
Rikki Prince
news:3c9230e5...@news.bpsinet.com...
<snip>
> A 13th chord is 1+3+5+b7+9+13. Not necessarily in that order.
Why is it b7? Why not just 7? And why is the 9 there, but the 11 not?
And just to check, I know the numbers refer to the note's position in
the scale, but which scale? I'm think it's a scale with 7 notes (you
can have longer scales can't you?), as I remember reading that the
additional notes are in a higher octave. Or is it the chromatic scale?
Cheers,
Rikki
Howard Ding
> Why is it b7? Why not just 7? And why is the 9 there, but the 11 not?
The answer to your first two questions basically boils down to "It's an
artifact of how the writing of chord symbols evolved and is done." (In
the following, note that I am even now only using one possible way of
many that people write these things - you will see many others). You
might think of the majority of 7th chords that you see as being
described by two factors: do you have the 3 or the b3, and do you have
the 7 or b7? If you have the 3, you leave the root unadorned in the
symbol; if you have the flat three, follow it by 'm'. If you have the
b7, leave the '7' unadorned; if you have the normal 7, precede it by
'M'. (again, remember that there are many different notations that
people use for this in practice).
So we have four basic chords (using C as an example)
C7 - (with the 3 and b7)
CM7 - (with the 3 and 7)
Cm7 - (with the b3 and b7)
CmM7 - (with the b3 and 7)
When you continue extending the chord with the 9,11,13, you replace the
7 with the appropriate number, hence the explanation of D13. If you
wanted to indicate the 7, you'd write something like DMaj13 instead
(notice how I sneaked in one of the other notations there? :-)
I agree that if you were to sit down and try to come up with your own
logical system for denoting chords, this probably wouldn't be it (it
certainly wouldn't be mine). But that's how people do it, and it's not
very hard to get one's mind around it with a little (very worthwhile,
IMHO) effort.
Now, as for the missing 11th, I would consider that strictly speaking a
13th chord does have the 11th in it. One can certainly find respectable
references that indicate this. However, I'd say that music theory isn't
as unified as some fields, so perhaps Chuck comes from a school of
thought that doesn't believe it is. As a practical matter, the 11 is a
good note to leave out when playing the chord on the guitar. If you
really want to suggest the named chord, I'd say you want to use a) the
root (it's the root after all) b) the appropriate 3rd and 7th (which
give the "flavor" of 7th chord that it is) and c) the "topmost" note
indicated by the chord symbol (so the 13 here, though you don't have to
play it as the highest note of the chord). This may vary depending on
factors like what chords you played before and after (so what kind of
lines you're making and physically what you're able to do), who else is
playing with you (have a bass player? Maybe it's not so important for
_you_ to play the root), etc.
> And just to check, I know the numbers refer to the note's position in
> the scale, but which scale? I'm think it's a scale with 7 notes (you
> can have longer scales can't you?), as I remember reading that the
> additional notes are in a higher octave. Or is it the chromatic scale?
I think this comes from thinking of constructing chords by stacking up
every other note in a scale. The 2 and 9, 4 and 11, 6 and 13 are the
same notes. You don't necessarily have to play them in that order in
actual music; you can choose voicings that you like. Some will sound
better than others, depending on the context and so on. And of course
only some of them are really possible to play. :-)
Note that there is some distinction in writing chords between using the
odd and even numbers. I don't want to posit this as a hard and fast
rule, but when I see an even number I think of it replacing something
else. For example, a C6 chord has the 6 instead of the 7, whereas a C13
is taking a complete C7 chord and adding more to it. (Even though, as
we observed above, the 6 and 13 are the same note.) But again, I don't
want to try to make any kind of general rule out of that statement.
mike anderson
would have D F# A C E G B.
To play such a thing on guitar, one typically has to leave out notes. >>
How else would you play it without leaving notes out (unless you have a 7
string...), an appregio of sorts?
--
mike anderson
http://www.mp3.com/mikeanderson <--Oodles of new demos now available!!!
my guitar lessons--> http://us.geocities.com/flabellifoliate
No one wants to know the truth about their heroes.
mike anderson
the scale, but which scale? I'm think it's a scale with 7 notes (you
can have longer scales can't you?), as I remember reading that the
additional notes are in a higher octave. Or is it the chromatic scale? >>
The higher octave is correct, if you were in C, 9 would be a D note, and octave
higher, but as Chuck alluded to, that D doesn't necessarily have to be in that
octave, it can be any D at all.
I will leave the first questions to him as i don't know it well enough to
explain it myself and don't want to confuse you (or myself!) further.
Howard Ding
> How else would you play it without leaving notes out (unless you have a 7
> string...), an appregio of sorts?
I was thinking that one might have a seven (or more string). I will
confess that I do have one, but I've never sat down and tried to figure
out a playable voicing for a full 13 chord, though. It's just not that
important to play all of the notes.
Lon Smith
and I didn't take any theory classes, is this wrong?
"Chuck" <Ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c9230e5...@news.bpsinet.com...
Chuck
<rpr...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Why is it b7? Why not just 7?
The 13th chord is an extention of the 7th chord. A 7th chord is
1+3+5+b7.
>And why is the 9 there, but the 11 not?
Well, as someone has already pointed out to you, in a purely technical
sense there is supposed to be an 11th in the 13th chord. However, in
practical usage the 11 is hardly ever [if in fact ever at all] used.
Rikki, I'm not in any way trying to be smartass with you here, but you
really do need to grab yourself some elementary theory study material
and get into it. The fact that you're asking these question is great!
It proves you have the necessary curiousity ... but you really need to
go back to the more elementary theory and build a foundation of
understanding upon which you can them build.
>And just to check, I know the numbers refer to the note's position in
>the scale, but which scale?
Which chord do you want? Answer that and you've answered your own
question. If you want a C13, use a C major scale and count. If you
want a Bb13, use a Bb major scale and count. If you want an E13, use
the E major scale and count.
>I'm think it's a scale with 7 notes (you
>can have longer scales can't you?), as I remember reading that the
>additional notes are in a higher octave.
When you get to seven, you just keep counting. 8 is the octave of 1. 9
is the octave of 2. 10 is the octave of 3. 11 is the octave of 4. And
so on and on and on.
Christopher Roberts
>I thought the actual 13 chord has an 11 in it. As I have been wrong before
>and I didn't take any theory classes, is this wrong?
It does. You're not wrong. Howard Ping's post is accurate, and diplomatic.
There are 7 notes in a 13th chord. If you're playing on a six string, then you
have to settle for an arpeggio, or a smaller voicing (omitting some note (most
commonly the 5 or 11), or if in a band you might split it up among more than
player.
13 = 1,3,5,b7,9,11,13
Maj13 = 1,3,5,7,9,11,13
m13 = 1,b3,5,b7,9,11,13
Most pickers i know never get around to developing an ear for 13th chords. You
might look into jazz or bossa nova music for examples. I could easily recommend
"the Real Book" series (jazz heads) for repetoire with extended and altered
chords.
Have fun,
chris roberts
snglstri...@aol.com
Chuck
effect a 13th chord. We need to understand that there is a theoritcal
and there is a practical.
If one were conducting a symphony orchestra, I feel safe in the
assumption that one would [and, quite reasonably _COULD_] insist upon
a technically correct and complete orchestration of the 13th [or
whatever] chord. Easy enough to do when you have an orchestra to work
with.
In the real world of the working [or hobby] guitar picker, however,
there are often, and of necessity, compromises that must be made.
We're not talking about compromises due to a lack of ability on the
part of the novice .. we're talking about how the 'big boys' do it.
Many of these compromises are so imbedded in the evolution of guitar
playing that the compromises have become the "standard". The
discussion of what is a 13th chord is one good illustration of exactly
what I'm trying to point out here.
Now, when I posted the spelling of a 13th chord, I did so off the top
of my old bald head. After reading other poster's comments I decided
to do a little research on the subject. While my "research" was
certainly neither thorough nor scholarly, I did grab a couple of
widely accepted _concise_ reference books and turn to the 13th chord
section in each. Neither of those reference books even shows the 11th
as being part of the spelling of a 13th chord.
The two books I used for reference were:
Guitar Chord Encyclopedia [36 chords in each key] Steve Hall & Ron
Manus .. published by Alfred Publishing Co. And ..
The Guitar Handbook by Ralph Denyer ... published by Alfred A. Knoph
of New York.
So, if your taking a course in classical music and in your final exam
you have to spell a 13th chord, you may indeed want to include the
11th. However, amongst us guitar players, I feel quite safe in saying
that a 13th chord is spelled, 1rst, 3rd, 5th, b7th, 9th, and 13th.
Furthermore, as has been already pointed out by more than one poster,
it is not uncommon at all, and in fact is quite common, to omit some
of the "necessary" notes included in the "correct" [or "accepted"]
spelling.
Now .. having said all that I feel a need to add that there are
different styles of music. Jazz is an area of music that, to a one
degree or another, has it's own rules and traditions. I am not a jazz
player .. not even a jazz listener. So, if the rules for the 13th in
jazz are different than what I stated above, perhaps some jazz picker
will be kind enough to wade in and offer some additional insight.
;o)
Rikki Prince
> Rikki, I'm not in any way trying to be smartass with you here, but
you
> really do need to grab yourself some elementary theory study
material
> and get into it. The fact that you're asking these question is
great!
> It proves you have the necessary curiousity ... but you really need
to
> go back to the more elementary theory and build a foundation of
> understanding upon which you can them build.
Agreed, I do need to read up on it myself. Sorry. I haven't gotten
around to applying myself to learning theory. I've read bits here and
there and then got confused and left it. Then there's a question on
here and I go "I don't get that, I'll ask", when really I should have
read about it.
Have you got any suggestions on books which cover theory and only
theory and for a guitar player who plays electric. Or even better
something that just teaches it with no context. I'd rather not be
taught in the context of classical nylon styles...
> >And just to check, I know the numbers refer to the note's position
in
> >the scale, but which scale?
>
> Which chord do you want? Answer that and you've answered your own
> question. If you want a C13, use a C major scale and count. If you
> want a Bb13, use a Bb major scale and count. If you want an E13, use
> the E major scale and count.
Sorry, I didn't explain what I didn't understand very well. I wasn't
sure if it was a thing of Major scale for Major chords and Minor
scales for Minor chords. But I don't know why I asked that. I was
confused at the time. Sorry...
Rikki
mike anderson
theory and for a guitar player who plays electric. Or even better
something that just teaches it with no context. I'd rather not be
taught in the context of classical nylon styles... >>
this website broaches the generalities of music theory, and applies it to rock
guitar, i think it might be what you are looking for, as Chuck always says,
start at the beginning, his lessons go in order (each build upon the previous),
so understand before you get ahead of yourself.
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~desmith/guitar/
Chuck
Well, you could use a minor scale if you wanted to find the spelling
for a m13th. But for theory beginners I always show the rule as it
relates to the major scales. In other words, a minor triad [as related
to a major scale] would be spelled 1rst, b3rd, and 5th. So, for a [for
example] Cm13 you would used the C major scale.
1[C]+B3[Eb]+5[G]+b7[Bb]+9[D]+13[A] [In the preceding, he "+" means
"plus" ... not augumented.]
Christopher Roberts
>A few more comments on exactly what notes are required in order to
>effect a 13th chord. We need to understand that there is a theoritcal
>and there is a practical.
>
I agree.
>If one were conducting a symphony orchestra, I feel safe in the
>assumption that one would [and, quite reasonably _COULD_] insist upon
>a technically correct and complete orchestration of the 13th [or
>whatever] chord. Easy enough to do when you have an orchestra to work
>with.
>
>In the real world of the working [or hobby] guitar picker, however,
>there are often, and of necessity, compromises that must be made.
>We're not talking about compromises due to a lack of ability on the
>part of the novice .. we're talking about how the 'big boys' do it.
>Many of these compromises are so imbedded in the evolution of guitar
>playing that the compromises have become the "standard". The
>discussion of what is a 13th chord is one good illustration of exactly
>what I'm trying to point out here.
>
Part of that understanding is that you commonly hear cliche voicings in a
particular genre of music, and by replicating that voicing it has a
genre-specific sound.
>Now, when I posted the spelling of a 13th chord, I did so off the top
>of my old bald head. After reading other poster's comments I decided
>to do a little research on the subject. While my "research" was
>certainly neither thorough nor scholarly, I did grab a couple of
>widely accepted _concise_ reference books and turn to the 13th chord
>section in each. Neither of those reference books even shows the 11th
>as being part of the spelling of a 13th chord.
>
>The two books I used for reference were:
>
>Guitar Chord Encyclopedia [36 chords in each key] Steve Hall & Ron
>Manus .. published by Alfred Publishing Co. And ..
>
I don't have this one.
>The Guitar Handbook by Ralph Denyer ... published by Alfred A. Knoph
>of New York.
>
This one I do have. It's a great resource for those who don't have it. It's
well worth investing in.
Surprisingly, in the back, in the chord book section, it has the spelling under
the 13 chords as 1,3,5,b7,9,13 as these are the notes in the few voicings that
they offer.
However, if you look in the "playing the guitar " part of the book, under "the
harmonic guitarist", under "extended chords" on the page that says "thirteenth
chords" on the top (page 135 in the 11th printing, 1988). There is a discussion
of how to create 13th chords by stacking thirds where you take an 11th chord
and stack a 3rd on top of it. Clear examples in standard notation are given for
C13, Cmaj13, and Cm13. The 11th is included, and in the discussion it states
that because it's a 7 note chord, a note will need to be omited when playing on
a 6 string guitar. They claim the most common omisions are the 9th and 11th.
Some of the voicings they give include the 11th and are missing the 5th.
>So, if your taking a course in classical music and in your final exam
>you have to spell a 13th chord, you may indeed want to include the
>11th. However, amongst us guitar players, I feel quite safe in saying
>that a 13th chord is spelled, 1rst, 3rd, 5th, b7th, 9th, and 13th.
>
Well, you can clearly choose to voice a 13th chord this way, but it's not the
full spelling.
>Furthermore, as has been already pointed out by more than one poster,
>it is not uncommon at all, and in fact is quite common, to omit some
>of the "necessary" notes included in the "correct" [or "accepted"]
>spelling.
>
>Now .. having said all that I feel a need to add that there are
>different styles of music. Jazz is an area of music that, to a one
>degree or another, has it's own rules and traditions. I am not a jazz
>player .. not even a jazz listener. So, if the rules for the 13th in
>jazz are different than what I stated above, perhaps some jazz picker
>will be kind enough to wade in and offer some additional insight.
>;o)
>
Voicings in jazz will be different, but the chord will still have the same
spelling regardless of what genre you use it in.
It's been my experience playing jazz, that the most commonly omited notes are
the 5th and the 9th, sometimes the root.
chris
I. B. Pickin
> ...and how the heck to I play it? Is it like a 6th and a 7th or something?
I've been watching this thread for days, and feel as though I've
received either digs for not being a music theory expert, or read
rambling ad-nauseum and admittedly-over-my-head definitions of what
elements are (or should be) component in a 13th chord.
Fine. The doggone sheet music says "D13". I **still** haven't seen
anybody suggest a formation to use to play it. I play predominantly
open chords, and I've got short fingers, so suggestions above the
fifth fret won't fit the voicings of other chords I use in context,
and spans beyond three frets top-to-bottom are physically not
practical options..
Given those qualifiers...can anybody suggest a formation? Anyone?
Anyone? Buehler?
Edwin Garth
> I've been watching this thread for days, and feel as though I've
> received either digs for not being a music theory expert, or read
> rambling ad-nauseum and admittedly-over-my-head definitions of what
> elements are (or should be) component in a 13th chord.
>
> Fine. The doggone sheet music says "D13". I **still** haven't seen
> anybody suggest a formation to use to play it. I play predominantly
> open chords, and I've got short fingers, so suggestions above the
> fifth fret won't fit the voicings of other chords I use in context,
> and spans beyond three frets top-to-bottom are physically not
> practical options..
>
> Given those qualifiers...can anybody suggest a formation? Anyone?
> Anyone? Buehler?
Ha ha...
Okay, here's a few. For the reasons already explained,
some of them omit the 9th and some omit the 11th
(view with a fixed-width font):
________________
D13 (with no 9th):
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
1_3_O_2_O_4
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
O_Ś_Ś_O_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_O_Ś_Ś_Ś_O
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
3_4_O_1_O_2
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_O_Ś_O
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
O_O_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
1_1_2_3_1_4
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
O_O_Ś_Ś_O_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_O_O_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś O
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
(I know this one goes above the 5th fret,
but it's probably the best-sounding one,
and also quite easy)
1_1_1_1_3_4
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
5 O_O_O_O_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_O_O
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
_________________
D13 (with no 11th):
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
O_2_O_3_1_4
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_O_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_O_Ś_O_Ś_O
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
2_3_O_4_1_O
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_O_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
O_O_Ś_O_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
O_3_O_1_O_2
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_O_Ś_O
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_O_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
1_3_O_2_O_O
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
O_Ś_Ś_O_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_O_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
O_1_2_3_1_4
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_O_Ś_Ś_O_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_O_O_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś O
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
O_2_1_3_O_4
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_O_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś O Ś O Ś O
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
2_3_1_4_O_O
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
Ś_Ś_O_Ś_Ś_Ś
Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś Ś
O O Ś O Ś Ś
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Rob Olliver
This is a moveable "13" chord form with the root on the 6th string. Meaning
if you play it at the 10th fret it is a "D13". Play it at the 5th fret and
it is an "A13" etc. etc.
"D13"
fingering
e----X----------
b----12--------- 4
g----11--------- 3
d----10--------- 2
a----X----------
e----10--------- 1
Notice that you mute the 5th and 1st string. Let your 1finger lightly touch
the 5th string and use your 4 (pinky) on the 6th. This works great due to
the curve of your pinky. Really easy. And remember it is movable. Hope this
voicing works.
This is voiced as R, b7, 3, 13.
Christopher Roberts
>I've been watching this thread for days, and feel as though I've
>received either digs for not being a music theory expert, or read
>rambling ad-nauseum and admittedly-over-my-head definitions of what
>elements are (or should be) component in a 13th chord.
>
>Fine. The doggone sheet music says "D13". I **still** haven't seen
>anybody suggest a formation to use to play it. I play predominantly
>open chords, and I've got short fingers, so suggestions above the
>fifth fret won't fit the voicings of other chords I use in context,
>and spans beyond three frets top-to-bottom are physically not
>practical options..
>
>Given those qualifiers...can anybody suggest a formation? Anyone?
>Anyone? Buehler?
>
The very first reply by howard gave a chord at frets 10-12.
Here are some closer to open position.
D13 = 555577
D13 = X55577
D13 = X5X577
D13 = XX0577
the first two assume you can barre.
chris
Chip L
>One of the simplest useful voicings is something like:
>
>e:X
>B:12
>G:11
>D:10
>A:X
>E:10
I move the root to the soprano voice as follows. Very useful chord for
swing/jump blues.
>e:10
>B:12
>G:11
>D:10
>A:X
>E:X
Barre the 10th fret w/ index finger.
Chip L
Jon Riley
news:20020319221352...@mb-cq.aol.com...
The last two are OK. You shouldn' t really put the 4th (11th) in a 13
chord, it muddies the sound.
You need root, 3, 7, 13.
5 and 9 are optional.
Even root is optional if there's a bassist playing it.
Jon Riley
news:88494a63.02031...@posting.google.com...
Easiest shape is X00577. Goes above 5th fret, but only just!
The shape I'd use is X54557 (D-F#-C-E-B = root-3-7-9-13), that's
within 3 frets, but a bit of a stretch for the pinky).
Trouble with 13ths is, you need both the 7th and 13th in the chord,
with the C preferably below. That doesn't give you a whole load of
options below 5th fret. Not that sound much good anyway .
E.g., X30202 has all the right notes (C-D-A-B-F#), but doesn't sound
right to me.
An easier one is X54500 (D-F#-C-B-E) - unorthodox having the C and B
together, but it may be the chord you want. (Even if it's not the best
sounding D13 - compare it with X00577.)
Most people would play D13 up on 10th fret, as others have said -
almost regardless of where the other chords might be. There, or the
4th-7th fret shape I mentioned above.
JonR
Ron Lukiv
> > open chords, and I've got short fingers, so suggestions above the
> > fifth fret won't fit the voicings of other chords I use in context,
> > and spans beyond three frets top-to-bottom are physically not
> > practical options..
> >
> > Given those qualifiers...can anybody suggest a formation? Anyone?
> > Anyone? Buehler?
> The shape I'd use is X54557 (D-F#-C-E-B = root-3-7-9-13), that's
> within 3 frets, but a bit of a stretch for the pinky).
> An easier one is X54500 (D-F#-C-B-E) - unorthodox having the C and B
> together, but it may be the chord you want. (Even if it's not the best
> sounding D13 - compare it with X00577.)
If you want to play a 13th, you're basically limited to what Jon has
suggested.
A D13 has both a "C" and a "B" note which tend to sound better if they
aren't right next to each other.
You can't achieve this in the first position.
If you're not going beyond the 3 fret in playing chords the only other step
is to simplify.
A 13th chord is just a fancy 7th chord. It's a dominant 7th with a 13th (or
6th) added.
In other words, play a D7 instead of a D13.
It will still work fine. A big reason chords have these fancy names is
because of the melody note.
In this case the melody might be a "B" which is sung over a D7 chord. If
that is the case, then you're achieving a 13th sound when you combine the
vocals and guitar.
Ron Lukiv
guitar theory webpage -
http://web.cuug.ab.ca/~lukivr/
Christopher Roberts
>If you're not going beyond the 3 fret in playing chords the only other step
>is to simplify.
>A 13th chord is just a fancy 7th chord. It's a dominant 7th with a 13th (or
>6th) added.
>
This is incorrect, what you have described is a 6/7 chord or a 7/13 chord.
6/7 = 1,3,5,6,b7
7/13= 1,3,5,b7,13
13 = 1,3,5,b7,9,11,13
The (dominant) 13th chord has all of the above notes. It is a 7 note chord.
>In other words, play a D7 instead of a D13.
>
You can do this, and it is instructive to understand what sorts of
simplifications, omissions, and substitutions can be made for a particular
chord. especially in a case such as a 13 chord where it is not possible on a 6
string guitar to fully play a 13 chord. But that does not change the definition
of the chord.
>It will still work fine. A big reason chords have these fancy names is
>because of the melody note.
>In this case the melody might be a "B" which is sung over a D7 chord. If
>that is the case, then you're achieving a 13th sound when you combine the
>vocals and guitar.
>
>Ron Lukiv
>
>guitar theory webpage -
>http://web.cuug.ab.ca/~lukivr/
>
chris roberts
snglstri...@aol.com