The majority of minor pop songs are written in:

[gonjah]

a) natural minor,

b) harmonic minor,

or

c) melodic minor,

and what is the difference between the three?

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

[Tony Done]

"gonjah" wrote in message
news:arudnbGWbfnnOCvS...@posted.toastnet...

***************

<g> The ones I classify as featureless minor dirges and mostly avoid like
the plague are written in any one of those three.

Tony D

[Tony Done]

"Tony Done" wrote in message news:jp692h$r9h$1...@dont-email.me...

**************

HTH

Tony D

[gonjah]

On 5/18/2012 2:49 PM, Tony Done wrote:
>
>
> "Tony Done" wrote in message news:jp692h$r9h$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>
> "gonjah" wrote in message
> news:arudnbGWbfnnOCvS...@posted.toastnet...
>
> a) natural minor,
>
> b) harmonic minor,
>
> or
>
> c) melodic minor,
>
> and what is the difference between the three?
>

Disappeared. :(

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

[gonjah]

On 5/18/2012 2:49 PM, Tony Done wrote:
>
>

> "Tony Done" wrote in message news:jp692h$r9h$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>
> "gonjah" wrote in message
> news:arudnbGWbfnnOCvS...@posted.toastnet...
>
> a) natural minor,
>
> b) harmonic minor,
>
> or
>
> c) melodic minor,
>
> and what is the difference between the three?
>

Tony,

Erase the sig. :) Then put your line in. Thanks.

Jim

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

[gonjah]

On 5/18/2012 2:39 PM, gonjah wrote:
> a) natural minor,
>
> b) harmonic minor,
>
> or
>
> c) melodic minor,
>
> and what is the difference between the three?
>

Examples of songs written in minor keys:

"Summertime" - the Janis Joplin version.
posted bymono blanco <http://www.metafilter.com/user/18572>at12:55 AM
<http://ask.metafilter.com/16949/Minor-Key#285295>on March 31, 2005


I'm listening to Clap Hands by Tom Waits right now.
posted byabcde <http://www.metafilter.com/user/8729>at1:35 AM
<http://ask.metafilter.com/16949/Minor-Key#285302>on March 31, 2005


"Blue Skies" -- I like the Anita O'Day version.
posted byLittleMissCranky <http://www.metafilter.com/user/15864>at5:07
AM <http://ask.metafilter.com/16949/Minor-Key#285328>on March 31, 2005


"Sultans of Swing" - Dire Straits
posted byplinth <http://www.metafilter.com/user/549>at5:48 AM
<http://ask.metafilter.com/16949/Minor-Key#285352>on March 31, 2005


Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles. Losing My Religion, R.E.M.
posted byPericles <http://www.metafilter.com/user/17327>at5:51 AM
<http://ask.metafilter.com/16949/Minor-Key#285356>on March 31, 2005



--
X-No-Archive: Yes

[Jim]

I was told that there'd be NO pop quizzes!

[Tony Done]

"gonjah" wrote in message
news:5JSdnXrzM4LwKivS...@posted.toastnet...

****************

<g> You don't really want to know what I wrote, it was facetious. Something
about featureless minor dirges.

Tony D

[gonjah]

I can read them but when I respond they disappear.

You facetious? Never!

Pop and minor keys are sort of a contradiction, but I like minor keys.

Maybe someone can answer why they are so interesting?

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

[Tony Done]

"gonjah" wrote in message
news:HYKdnTr6Qdx4ICvS...@posted.toastnet...

************

I must admit I like and play Summertime, but I think of it as interesting
jazz/blues not a minor melody.

Tony D

[gonjah]

I'll take a stab at harmonic minor because of the E7 if you play it in A
minor. Interesting because the melody appears to be in natural.

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

[gonjah]

On 5/18/2012 4:11 PM, Jim wrote:
> I was told that there'd be NO pop quizzes!

It's open book. ;)
>


--
X-No-Archive: Yes

[Tony Done]

"gonjah" wrote in message
news:jtmdndkGIprRWSvS...@posted.toastnet...

*****************

My version is based on chords by someone called Joe Palumbo from many years
ago. A search might still find it. It has a good assortment of dim7 and 9th
chords, and I've been toying with the idea of arranging a version based
entirely on that kind of chord. - It seems to be easier to get those
voicings on a nylon string, maybe because of good note separation and low
sustain.

Tony D

[gonjah]

It was one of my favorite guitar songs to play. I don't know what
version I learned but my brother gave me the chords. We have both since
forgotten how to play it. It was probably:

Am6, E7, Dm7, F, B7, Am, D7, C, D. Or similar. The Am6 would also
indicate a harmonic minor. But the B7 might indicate a melodic minor
with it's F#.

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

[gonjah]

Add "Angie"

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

[Pt]

> X-No-Archive: Yes-

House of the rising sun.

Pt

[gonjah]

Another with the V chord.

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

[Rufus]

gonjah wrote:
> a) natural minor,
>
> b) harmonic minor,
>
> or
>
> c) melodic minor,
>
> and what is the difference between the three?
>

Not much, it would seem...it's really only about four chords -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpB_40hYjXU

...in case you didn't catch them all, by title -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4_f6pfabQk

--
- Rufus

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

gonjah wrote:
> Add "Angie"

<devil's advocate>

How do you know Angie is in a minor key?

</devil's advocate>


Lump

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

By the way -
What key is SHA?


Lump

[gonjah]

I donno for sure. Looked at the chords. Has a sad sound. Starts on Am
ends on Am. Has a V so I'm guessing harmonic minor.



--
X-No-Archive: Yes

[RichL]

"gonjah" <gon...@wasted.net> wrote in message
news:arudnbGWbfnnOCvS...@posted.toastnet...

> a) natural minor,
>
> b) harmonic minor,
>
> or
>
> c) melodic minor,
>
> and what is the difference between the three?

A lot of so-called "minor" pop songs are actually in Dorian mode.

Another lot of so-called "minor songs are modulating back and forth between
minor and relative major.

A lot are harmonic in a sense but they use the sharped seventh both up and
down, so technically they're not really harmonic. Same with melodic. Both
scales, if taken literally, are different depending on direction.

I think "Summertime" is reasonably classified as harmonic minor.

In pop music, you'll rarely hear a case that's "true" harmonic or "true"
melodic. But assuming that just notes in the "ascending" versions of these
scales are used, there's a lot of both.

Watch for these chord sequences:

Natural minor: i-iv-v
Harmonic minor: i-iv-V
Melodic minor: i-IV-V
Dorian mode: i-IV-v

(capital letters = major chord, lower-case letters = minor chord)

[gonjah]

Thanks Rich. That looks about right. I've noticed it's hard to classify
something as strictly "harmonic" yet most seem to prefer the V7 opposed
to the v. Like on Angie there is a E7 and a em.

I'll ask about the Dorian mode thing. I think I see a future homework
problem here. ;)

I'll answer the difference question: The difference is the 7th is raised
a half step on the Harmonic and the 6th and 7th are raised a half step
on the melodic ascending scale. Better explanations are sure to follow.

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

RichL wrote:

> A lot of so-called "minor" pop songs are actually in Dorian mode.

Like which ones, for example?


Lump

[Tony Done]

"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" wrote in message
news:jp7619$to8$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

*****************

Scarborough Fair was a big hit in 1752.

Tony D

[David Raleigh Arnold]

On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:39:36 -0500, gonjah wrote:

> a) natural minor,
>
> b) harmonic minor,
>
> or
>
> c) melodic minor,
>
> and what is the difference between the three?

The difference is easy enough for you to look up,
but only the similarity matters. These are all
A minor scales. Nothing is written "in" a scale. A tune
or scale may be said to be in a key, like A minor,
more or less.

A key is two things, tonality and mode. The modes in
keys are major and minor. The use of one sharp or
one flat allows three major and three minor modes, and
that used to be the way it was structured. Modes have
always been subject to modifications. The application
of the wrong Greek names to the system was not necessary
or desirable, but it was done.

Regards, daveA

--
Guitar teaching materials and original music for all styles and levels.
Site: http://www.openguitar.com (()) eMail: d.raleig...@gmail.com
Contact: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html"

[RichL]

"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message
news:jp7619$to8$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> RichL wrote:
>
>> A lot of so-called "minor" pop songs are actually in Dorian mode.
>
> Like which ones, for example?

Cream's "Badge" is a classic example.
The Association's "Along Comes Mary"
"I Heard It Through The Grapevine"
"Eleanor Rigby"
Someone else mentioned "Scarborough Faire".
Carlos Santana has a handful of them, including "Oyo Como Va" and "Evil
Ways".
"Smoke on the Water" hints at Dorian with its Gm-Bb-C riff (not sure I've
got the key right, it could be F#m-A-B) but it doesn't follow the rules
throughout. But then again, there are lots of rock/pop songs that don't
strictly follow the rules.

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

RichL wrote:
> > > A lot of so-called "minor" pop songs are actually in Dorian mode.

> Cream's "Badge" is a classic example.
> The Association's "Along Comes Mary"
> "I Heard It Through The Grapevine"
> "Eleanor Rigby"
> Someone else mentioned "Scarborough Faire".
> Carlos Santana has a handful of them, including "Oyo Como Va" and
> "Evil Ways".
> "Smoke on the Water" hints at Dorian with its Gm-Bb-C riff (not sure
> I've got the key right, it could be F#m-A-B) but it doesn't follow
> the rules throughout. But then again, there are lots of rock/pop
> songs that don't strictly follow the rules.

You clearly don't have a clue about modes.


Lump

[RichL]

"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message

news:jp8gdt$ves$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

You are clearly nursing a grudge. How about a constructive rebuttal rather
than a grand, sweeping, and unsubstantiated assertion?

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

RichL wrote:

> How about a constructive rebuttal
> rather than a grand, sweeping, and unsubstantiated assertion?

How about you go fuck yourself.


Lump

[RichL]

"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message

news:jp8iuh$6cd$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Constructive rebuttal: "I disagree that X is in Dorian mode because..."

Non-constructive rebuttal: "Rich made fun of me several weeks ago and I
can't get over it. Waaaaahh. My pussy hurts."

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

RichL wrote:

> Constructive rebuttal: "I disagree that X is in Dorian mode
> because..."

It's not about "disagreeing", it's about simply knowing
what "dorian mode" means instead of guessing. But then
again, that's coming from a guy that you don't even
think plays the guitar.

So go fuck yourself, Rich. Go fuck yourself.


Lump

[RichL]

"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message

news:jp8o5h$jqv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> RichL wrote:
>
>> Constructive rebuttal: "I disagree that X is in Dorian mode
>> because..."
>
> It's not about "disagreeing", it's about simply knowing
> what "dorian mode" means instead of guessing. But then
> again, that's coming from a guy that you don't even
> think plays the guitar.

Which of the songs I listed above are not in dorian mode and why?

(Hint: I already know, after refreshing my memory by listening to them, that
two of the ones I listed don't qualify strictly -- they both have the same
"rule break". But I'd still say they're dorian-flavored.)

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

RichL wrote:
> ... I already know...

You are embarassingly ignorant about music theory.

Rich, go fuck yourself. I'm not here to baby you
along through your illusions.


Lump

[RichL]

"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message

news:jp8th4$27n$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> RichL wrote:
>> ... I already know...
>
> You are embarassingly ignorant about music theory.

Still no substance to your remarks.

Why play the ignorant goofball? I *KNOW* you know theory, although you're a
bit rigid with your interpretation.

I guess you'd rather play the troll. Fine, your choice.

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

RichL wrote:

> Still no substance to your remarks.

Take your penis out of your hand and shove it
up your rectum, Rich.

Is there something I can say to make it more clear?

Go fuck yourself. In your ass. With your penis.


Lump

[RichL]

"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message

news:jp9294$ek1$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Go fuck yourself. In your ass. With your penis.

Maybe you have trouble with the concept? I doubt it, but it's puzzling that
you're reluctant to discuss modes.

Here, maybe I can get you started. I'll do Badge, you do the next one on my
list, and so on.

The original recording is in the key of G. It never deviates from G.
BUT...

Here are the chords from the verse and chorus (leaving out frills like add9
etc.)

Verse: Am Bm Em (repeat) (predominant notes in the melody are A, G, B, D,
E)
Chorus: C Am Bm Am (predominant notes in the melody are E, D, G)

That's A dorian mode. Still key of G. Now to the bridge and lead break: C,
G, D. Like SHA except that the chords are in a different order.
Predominant notes in the melody are D, B, G. Sounds like D mixolydian to
me. But still the key of G.

If I recall all the notes correctly, the piece can be scored in G with no
accidentals. But I think it's reasonable to consider it as being A dorian
mode everywhere but the bridge and lead break.

What say ye?

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

RichL wrote:
> What say ye?

I say go fuck yourself, Rich.


Lump

[RichL]

"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message

news:jp9bi0$3ek$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> RichL wrote:
>> What say ye?
>
> I say go fuck yourself, Rich.

You're not getting the concept here, Lump. If you really want to humiliate
me, tell me where I'm wrong. Even if you don't want to humiliate me, others
may benefit from a more sophisticated analysis. Either way, you get to
count coup.

Now. On to Scarborough Fair. Key of D. E Dorian throughout. Why? Why
can't it be E minor (key of G)?

"Parsley, sage, rosemar-Y and thyme". On that Y in 'rosemary', an A chord
is played, and a C# note is sung.

You could score it in G but if you did that, the C# note would be an
accidental. There isn't a natural C anywhere in the song. Simplicity. All
the notes in the song belong to the D scale. But it's got a minor tonality,
and the E minor scale doesn't work as described above. But the Em chord
FEELS like the "home" chord. E Dorian mode makes sense.

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

RichL wrote:

> You're not getting the concept here, Lump.

Rich, go fuck yourself.
What's hard to understand about THAT concept?

Of all the people I'd be willing to offer correct advice,
you are WAY below the bottom.

Go...fuck...yourself.


Lump

[Nil]

On 19 May 2012, "Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in
alt.guitar.beginner:

> I say go fuck yourself, Rich.

Your self-confidence is obviously at a low ebb, but really, there's no
need for you to feel so frightened.

Don't be grumpy, Lumpy, and we won't let you slumpy into the dumpy
again.

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

Nil wrote:

> Your self-confidence is obviously at a low ebb, but really, there's no
> need for you to feel so frightened.
>
> Don't be grumpy, Lumpy, and we won't let you slumpy into the dumpy
> again.

The two of you take turns warming your noses in
each other's asses.

Go watch Rich fuck himself. In the key of Dorian mode.
Or you could always get off the computer and practice
that GSO. Maybe read a book on music theory. You know
you can actually get a degree in that these days.

I don't even play the geetar.


Lump

[RichL]

"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message

news:jp9fgh$au3$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> RichL wrote:

> Of all the people I'd be willing to offer correct advice,
> you are WAY below the bottom.

Eleanor Rigby. There's a rule break no matter how you score it. My
mistake -- it's not purely E Dorian. It's not purely E minor. It could be
notated in either D or G with some justification.

Chords: It has both C and A major chords.
Melody: there are C, C#, and D notes. At least one of these has to be an
accidental. Which one?

The D note is consistent with both E minor and E Dorian mode. So that one's
OK either way.

If there were no C# note, E minor (key of G) would be correct. If there
were no C natural, E Dorian mode (key of D) would be correct.

In the first verse, the C# note appears on both "in" and "church" in the
line "picks up the rice in the church where the wedding has been". But
later in the same verse, "Lives in a dream" has the melody line G-A-B-C-B.

There is no consistent pattern of different ascending and descending scales,
as would be the case with either harmonic or melodic minor.

The "All the lonely people, where do they all come from" is accompanied by
both A and C major chords. The melody in that portion of the song contains
neither a C note nor a C# note.

But the C chords are more frequent than the A chords; the refrain "Ah, look
at all the lonely people" is accompanied by a C chord until the last word
(Em chord).

So while it COULD be scored as the key of D (E Dorian mode), the key of G (E
minor) comes closest to representing where the main emphasis of the song is.

[RichL]

"Nil" <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:XnsA058D565...@wheedledeedle.moc...

Lumpy is awl that matters in alt.guitar.beginner.

[Tony Done]

"RichL" wrote in message
news:SdqdnY-D1vIqqSXS...@supernews.com...

***************

You might remember that a few months ago I mentioned that I had done an
arrangement of Scarborough Fair for slide. It was based on the comment by
someone (you?) that it is Dorian, so I started on the 2nd fret of open D
major. It works fine, you avoid the G#, and get the minor sound by sliding
to the 5th fret, G major. For the Parsley line, go alternate between G major
and A major. The melody falls out perfectly on E5, D major, G major and A
major.

Tony D

[Charmed Snark]

gonjah expounded in
news:782dneQ19a0XjyrS...@posted.toastnet:

> On 5/18/2012 10:13 PM, RichL wrote:
>> "gonjah" <gon...@wasted.net> wrote in message
>> news:arudnbGWbfnnOCvS...@posted.toastnet...
>>> a) natural minor,
>>>
>>> b) harmonic minor,
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> c) melodic minor,
>>>
>>> and what is the difference between the three?
>>
>> A lot of so-called "minor" pop songs are actually in Dorian mode.

...

> Thanks Rich. That looks about right. I've noticed it's hard to
> classify something as strictly "harmonic" yet most seem to prefer the
> V7 opposed to the v. Like on Angie there is a E7 and a em.

...

> I'll answer the difference question: The difference is the 7th is
> raised a half step on the Harmonic

Yes.

> and the 6th and 7th are raised a
> half step on the melodic ascending scale. Better explanations are
> sure to follow.

and the 6th & 7th are natural on the way down.

In Am natural, neither 6th nor 7th is sharp.

As for modes, I'll have to plead the musician's 5th amendment at this
time of day- my brain desires a pillow..

Snark.

[Nil]

On 19 May 2012, "RichL" <rple...@yahoo.com> wrote in
alt.guitar.beginner:

> Lumpy is awl that matters in alt.guitar.beginner.

Indeed!, and that's why all we supporters here will be there to help
Lumpy trump life's bumpy humps. If pumping stumps with that weirdio
chump is what keeps him from getting the mumps, I'll gladly be the ump.

We got your rump, Lump!

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

Nil wrote:


> We got your rump, Lump!

You and that group you're calling "we" can have my rump
if you like. But it would be a ton more productive if
you'd learn how to play that geetar.

If I was going to suggest a mus theory teacher, I'd
recommend staying away from Rich.


Lump

[wereoawl]

"gonjah" <gon...@wasted.net> wrote in message
news:arudnbGWbfnnOCvS...@posted.toastnet...
> a) natural minor,
>
> b) harmonic minor,
>
> or
>
> c) melodic minor,
>
> and what is the difference between the three?
>

> --
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>

The difference between the three is that you should be grooving on nothing
but Nuclear Warrior and the Wereo by now.

That is the difference between the three.

[wereoawl]

"RichL" <rple...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:SdqdnY-D1vIqqSXS...@supernews.com...

WHY are we wallowing in the mud like this? I am the only one who matters in
the songwriting department.

[RichL]

"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message
news:jpa7dg$o9o$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> If I was going to suggest a mus theory teacher, I'd
> recommend staying away from Rich.

Well, since I never purported to be a music theory teacher and have no
aspirations in that direction, I would concur with that recommendation.
Nevertheless, in the (apparently vain) hope of spurring some relevant
on-topic discussion, I slog along.

Speaking of 'along':

Along Comes Mary

Boy, did I blow it with this one. Going mainly from a vague recollection, I
originally called it "Dorian mode". Nope.

I just gave the song a listen, and here's what I get out of it.

The verse: repeating sequene of chords Am Bm/A Am7 Bm/A. The Am and Am7
have the notes A, C, E, G, and the Bm/A has the notes B, D, F#, and A. So
overall, in order, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G. Change the order, and you have the
notes belonging to the key of G. The melody being sung consists entirely of
C, D, and E notes. The Am chord "feels" like the "home" chord. Taken
together, these factors suggest A Dorian (key of G).

So far so good!

"And then along comes Mary". An E chord over an extended time interval,
messing up the above scheme. And then a melody line starting with D E D E E
D E, then progressing to a sequence containing G#, B, A, and F# notes. The
chords during this sequence are E A E A E A D G B E B E A D A. What a mess.
What to do?

The entire sequence between "along comes Mary" until just before the next
verse has a definite major tonality that suggests a key change. But how
should it be scored? I think a case can be made for either the key of E or
the key of A. Either way, there will be accidentals. The melody line is
consistent with either E or A. The chords are fully consistent with
neither. The G note in the G chord is problematical in both keys, and the D
note in the G chord would be an accidental if this part were scored in E.
The D note in the D chord is also an accidental if this portion were scored
in E. However, going to A instead, the D# in the B chord would be an
accidental. So I'm leaning toward the key of E here, although I think a
case could be made for A instead.

Now there's the little bit before the next verse starting with "When we met
I was sure out to lunch...". The chords here are Dm Em F Dm D. Dm Em F Dm
suggests the key of Am, but then there's that D chord just before the next
verse starts. But looking at what's coming in the next verse, one could
regard that D chord as "announcing" the return to A Dorian mode. The
preceding chords aren't consistent with A Dorian, however, since the both
the Dm and F chords contain the F note which isn't present in A Dorian. The
F note could be notated as an accidental in the key of G (A Dorian), or the
little segment (up to but not including the D major chord) could be notated
separately in Am. I'd lean toward the former.

So my conclusions:
The verse is in A Dorian mode (key of G). I'm pretty firm on this.
Most of the chorus is in the key of E with accidentals, although a case can
be made for the key of A with different accidentals.
The little bit at the end of the chorus is also A Dorian but with the F
notated as an accidental (natural) except for the final D chord. All but
that last chord could also be notated as Am (key of C), but I think this
overly complicates things.

Thoughts?

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

RichL wrote:

> ...in the (apparently vain) hope of

> spurring some relevant on-topic discussion, I slog along.

Oh for fuck's sake, Rich. When it's convenient for you
you're up my ass. Then when it's alternatively convenitne for you,
you go passive-aggressive and say "Oh well if you're not willing
to be constructive" and "Well I'm not a theory teacher [but here
I'll teach some theory]"

Just go fuck yourself, Rich.


Lump

[esha...@yahoo.com]

This is usally the part where they say:
" Lumpy - we need to let you go - you're just to much
of a Rude Pain In The Ass"
and so life goes on..
meow........

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

esha...@yahoo.com wrote:

> This is usally the part where they say:
> " Lumpy - we need to let you go - you're just to much
> of a Rude Pain In The Ass"
> and so life goes on..
> meow........

This is the part where all the little cunt hairs
come on board and say "Yeah me too - meow"

Be a man, man.


Lump

[Pt]

On May 20, 10:47 am, esham...@yahoo.com wrote:

> meow........-

You mean you're going to fire Lumpy?

Pt

[RichL]

"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message

news:jpb2rr$thq$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

So it hurts when someone else is doing it? Hmmmm. "You can dish it out but
you can't take it" comes to mind.

You're constantly up Ed's ass, criticizing him for enjoying playing as a
hobby.

You used to be up Learnwell's ass all the time when he used to post here, to
the extent that you decided to dig into his private life and post it here.

And you've been up Pt's ass constantly, ever since I first started posting
here.

You're up gonjah's ass a lot, lord knows why. And you've been up my ass
ever since I teased you about my perception that you didn't enjoy playing,
that you regarded it as a chore. I thought (and still do think) that a true
musician, whether an amateur or a pro, is involved with music because of the
sheer joy of it. So I ribbed you. Meantime, I recall one later post in
which you DID say you enjoy playing. That's good. If you really believe
that, I'm happy for you.

But you can't let go; you're determined to permanently assign me to your
shit list. Fine, that's your choice, but by refusing to participate in an
on-topic discussion about modes, you're risking your position as
Self-Designated Newsgroup Guru. You're letting someone who you say doesn't
have a clue about modes best you.

And no, I'm not "teaching", I'm putting forth my interpretation of the list
of songs that I posted in response to YOUR question:

Rich: A lot of so-called "minor" pop songs are actually in Dorian mode.

Lumpy: Like which ones, for example?

Rich: Cream's "Badge" is a classic example.
The Association's "Along Comes Mary"
"I Heard It Through The Grapevine"
"Eleanor Rigby"
Someone else mentioned "Scarborough Faire".
Carlos Santana has a handful of them, including "Oyo Como Va" and "Evil
Ways".

So OK, I put together the list hastily. I should have thought through it
more before I posted the list. I'd have been much better off with most of
the songs saying they have "Dorian elements" rather than saying they are
"actually in Dorian mode".

But the only one that I've discussed in detail so far that clearly doesn't
have significant "Dorian elements" is Eleanor Rigby (though that A chord
mildly suggests it). The rest have segments that clearly follow Dorian
rules.

By going through the list in detail, I'm learning something. And maybe
others in the newsgroup will learn something, too.

And if I make a mistake and someone pipes in and calls me on it (not
necessarily you), we all learn even more from that.

Got it?

I'll confess that I don't know as much theory as you do, but I'm a far cry
from fitting the "You clearly don't have a clue about modes" description.
So I work to better myself. And I'm working to correct my original list of
songs, which was misleading. I should have fleshed out the details first.

Next up I'll do the Santana songs I listed. Feel free to follow along, call
out my mistakes (I can't guarantee I'll be error-free), whatever you like.
Or you can continue your hissy-fit like you did with Learnwell.

Your choice.

[gonjah]

On 5/20/2012 12:40 PM, RichL wrote:
> "Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message
> news:jpb2rr$thq$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> RichL wrote:
>>
>>> ...in the (apparently vain) hope of
>>> spurring some relevant on-topic discussion, I slog along.
>>
>> Oh for fuck's sake, Rich. When it's convenient for you
>> you're up my ass. Then when it's alternatively convenitne for you,
>> you go passive-aggressive and say "Oh well if you're not willing
>> to be constructive" and "Well I'm not a theory teacher [but here
>> I'll teach some theory]"
>
> So it hurts when someone else is doing it? Hmmmm. "You can dish it
> out but you can't take it" comes to mind.
>
> You're constantly up Ed's ass, criticizing him for enjoying playing as
> a hobby.
>
> You used to be up Learnwell's ass all the time when he used to post
> here, to the extent that you decided to dig into his private life and
> post it here.
>
> And you've been up Pt's ass constantly, ever since I first started
> posting here.
>

> You're up gonjah's ass a lot, lord knows why. <snip>

X-No-Archive: Yes

Actually, FWIW, I perceived that the other way around. I try and stay
away from cursing, so it may have appeared that way to you.

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

RichL wrote:

> You're constantly up Ed's ass...

> You used to be up Learnwell's ass...

> And you've been up Pt's ass constantly...

> You're up gonjah's ass a lot...

I'm not real sure I've been up gonhah's ass.

Shift the "blame" to me all you want. I'm responsible
for MY words and actions. And if I choose to be up
somebody's ass, by fucking gawd I'll be up it 24/7
if I want to. And that ass of yours is my current
target. I'm capable of multi tasking. I can be up
your ass at the same time I'm up alcoholic thief Pt's ass
and strive for mediocre performance ed's ass. Learnwell's
got his own set of problems. He doesn't need me to remind
him he's in the toilet.

Rich, go fuck yourself. In the key of dorian mode,
whatever the fuck you think that is.


Lump

[RichL]

"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message

news:jpbi0v$avf$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> RichL wrote:
>
>> You're constantly up Ed's ass...
>
>> You used to be up Learnwell's ass...
>
>> And you've been up Pt's ass constantly...
>
>> You're up gonjah's ass a lot...
>
> I'm not real sure I've been up gonhah's ass.
>
> Shift the "blame" to me all you want. I'm responsible
> for MY words and actions. And if I choose to be up
> somebody's ass, by fucking gawd I'll be up it 24/7
> if I want to. And that ass of yours is my current
> target. I'm capable of multi tasking. I can be up
> your ass at the same time I'm up alcoholic thief Pt's ass
> and strive for mediocre performance ed's ass. Learnwell's
> got his own set of problems. He doesn't need me to remind
> him he's in the toilet.

Then maybe you shouldn't be whining about the fact that I got up your ass
*briefly*. Get over it. Really.

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

RichL wrote:
> Then maybe you shouldn't be whining about the fact that I got up your
> ass *briefly*. Get over it. Really.

Rich, go fuck yourself.


Lump

[Pt]

On May 20, 4:17 pm, "Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com>
wrote:

You really are a jerk.
Can you put up with yourself?
You turn off everyone in this group.
Dissing Rich, Nil or Ed is outrageous.
Go ahead punk.
Call me names.
Make my day!

Pt

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

Pt wrote:

> You really are a jerk.

Yes I am.
And I can play the living FUCK out of the geetar.
You can't.

Put that swingin' dick up here on the table if you wanna play.

Steal from fellow musicians and have the gall to call me a jerk.


Lump

[esha...@yahoo.com]

Ohhh fight like a Man - like you do ?
No facts, no explination ...just..
Fu Rich...........
Fu PT................
Fu Gonjah..................
Fu Nil.....................
Fu Ed ....................

Nobobdy Likes Him - The Fool On The Hill!!!

Scorpion Rage - in the hot desert.
And YES You ARE FIRED!!!! ed

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

esha...@yahoo.com wrote:

> Nobobdy Likes Him - The Fool On The Hill!!!

You don't like me? Stop reading me.

You won't. A more self confident man could. You can't.


Lump

[gonjah]

-- X-No-Archive: Yes

On 5/21/2012 9:18 AM, Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke wrote:
> esha...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Nobobdy Likes Him - The Fool On The Hill!!!

> You don't like me? Stop reading me.<snip>
>

Yup.

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

ed:

> > > Nobobdy Likes Him - The Fool On The Hill!!!

Lump:

> > You don't like me? Stop reading me.<snip>

gonj:
> Yup.

Man walks into a bar. Gets the crap beat out of him by big, mean dude.
Man walks into same bar every night. Gets the crap beat out of him
every night by same big, mean dude. 20 yrs later he walks in and says
"Hey, big, mean dude, I wish you would stop beating the crap out of me".
Big, mean dude beats the crap out of him.


Lump

[esha...@yahoo.com]

A man walks into a bar - and the bar tender say go away nobody likes you here,
cause your such an Ass..

The man walks into another bar - and the bar tender say go away nobody likes you here,cause your such an Ass..

The man walks into another bar - and the bar tender say go away nobody likes you here,cause your such an Ass..

The man walks into another bar - and the bar tender say go away nobody likes you here,cause your such an Ass..

The man walks into another bar - and the bar tender say go away nobody likes you here,cause your such an Ass..

Finally the man goes to the store and buys a beer and goes home to drink it alone. and he says
"Everybody is such an Ass"

sound like someone you know..

Epitaph reads - "could resite things from other peoples work - could not create or perform with other humans" - You're fired, now shut up! if you can.. ED

[gonjah]

-- X-No-Archive: Yes

On 5/21/2012 11:10 AM, esha...@yahoo.com wrote:

Now who's the bully?

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

esha...@yahoo.com wrote:
> A man walks into a bar - and the bar tender say go away nobody likes
> you here,
> cause your such an Ass..

Man walks into a bar. Bartender has no self confidence, no self esteem,
is afraid to speak for himself so he evokes the imaginary support of
"everybody" else in the bar.

Just once, just once, Ed, I'd like to see you stand on your
own two feet. Tell me how YOU feel, without trying to hide
behind the imagined support of other anonymous people who
you've never met.

Just once.

You can't.

Musicians need to figure this out. Or they'll forever be
in the situation you are in. Played for decades, never gotten
past mediocre. Always worried about someone else's skills or
attitude. Rationalizing their poor playing skills with stuff like
"But I don't want to be a good player, I'll turn into an asshole".

Get it yet? Stop worrying about ME or anyone else who threatens your
musicianship. Get your ass into the woodshed and get good. If my
posts scare you, offend you, bother you, here's a clue-by-four
"Don't read them".

You can't. You're like a jewish princess. Happy to be unhappy.
I DEMAND you keep reading my posts. Flag them in your reader
so they show up bold and in color so you'll read them first
thing when opening up your reader. I COMMAND you.


Lump

[esha...@yahoo.com]

hahaha - OK - I don't give a crap what you think of me or my music. I do it
for the enjoyment it gives me (something you have either forgotten or traded
away with your deal with the Devil) -
, and it has nothing to do with pleaseing you.
I also think your are an ASS. Clear enough ? Ed

ps you command nothing - you've been Fired!!

[gonjah]

On 5/21/2012 12:46 PM, esha...@yahoo.com wrote:

Unusual comment from a musician.

> I also think your are an ASS. Clear enough ? Ed
>
> ps you command nothing - you've been Fired!!

I guess the obvious escaped you.

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

esha...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I also think your are an ASS. Clear enough ? Ed

I think you're an ass.
I read all your posts.
I think you're an ass.
I read all your posts.

Um, no. Not clear enough.


Lump

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

ed:

> > hahaha - OK - I don't give a crap what you think of me or my
> > music. I do it for the enjoyment it gives me (something you have
> > either forgotten or traded away with your deal with the Devil) -
> > , and it has nothing to do with pleaseing you.

gonj:

> Unusual comment from a musician.

It certainly is.

I don't care who you are, what experience level you're at,
how long you've played. Music has EVERYTHING to do with
pleaseing [sic] listeners.

Ed, surely you don't say the same thing to someone
who LIKES your music.


Lump

[esha...@yahoo.com]

This was targeted stricky at YOU.. Jack A Lumpy.
Signed - Woolly Bully Ed

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

esha...@yahoo.com wrote:

> > > hahaha - OK - I don't give a crap what you think of me or my

> > > > music. I do it for the enjoyment it gives me...

> This was targeted stricky at YOU...

That's another thing unsuccessful and mediocre musicians do.
They seek out and target those that don't like their act.
Lots of wasted energy there. Just think of the time you've
spent just today replying to my posts. Had you been practicing
your GSO, you might be on your way to being a guitarist. But
you didn't so you're just an apologist.

"I do it for the enjoyment it gives me".

Right. Like you've got a handle on that. Like good musicians
don't enjoy playing. Like you wouldn't enjoy it if you played
10, 100, 1000 times better than you do now.

REPLY TO ME NOW!


Lump

[Bernie Woodham]

On May 21, 12:10 pm, esham...@yahoo.com wrote:

> On Monday, May 21, 2012 10:33:46 AM UTC-5, Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke wrote:
> > ed:
> > > > > Nobobdy Likes Him - The Fool On The Hill!!!
>
> > Lump:
> > > > You don't like me? Stop reading me.<snip>
>
> > gonj:
> > > Yup.
>

> > Man walks into a bar....

A bear walks into a bar. He eyes a pretty woman sitting on a stool.

Bear says to the bartender, "Give me a beer."

Bartender says, "We don't server bears."

Bear says, "Give me a beer, or I'll eat that woman."

Bartender says, "We don't serve bears who make threats."

The bear eats the woman.

Bear says, "Give me a beer."

Bartender says, "We don't serve bears who make threats, eats people,
and takes drugs."

Bear says, "I haven't taken any drugs."

Bartender says, "That was a bar-bitch-you-ate".

[gonjah]

A christian, muslim and a jew walk into a bar...?

and the bartender says "what is this some kinda joke?!"

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

Rabbi, Indian Chief and a Midwest politician walk into a bar.
Ouch!


Lump

[gonjah]

Customers walk into a bar....

Ed tells the them to leave.

[esha...@yahoo.com]

Gonjah & a Jerk walk into a bar . bar tenders say "Hey Lumpy I didn't know
anyone would drink with you , cause you're such an Ass. " Wooly Bully.. e

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

ed:

> Gonjah & a Jerk walk into a bar . bar tenders say "Hey Lumpy I didn't
> know anyone would drink with you , cause you're such an Ass. " Wooly
> Bully.. e

Ed walks into a bar. Bar hits him in the face. Gets a bloody nose.
Bartender says "Why didn't you duck to avoid hitting the bar?"
Ed says -
""It's ok, I walk into bars for my own personal enjoyment.
If I start ducking to miss the bar, I'll feel like it's
a job and lose the enjoyment.""


Lump

[esha...@yahoo.com]

Strange comment from a guy that gets no enjoyment from playing for himself..
woolly bully. e "ya fied "

[gonjah]

-- X-No-Archive: Yes
On 5/22/2012 9:19 AM, esha...@yahoo.com wrote:

> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:44:22 AM UTC-5, Craig&#39;Lumpy&#39; Lemke wrote:
>> ed:
>>

>>> Gonjah& a Jerk walk into a bar . bar tenders say "Hey Lumpy I didn't

>>> know anyone would drink with you , cause you're such an Ass. " Wooly
>>> Bully.. e
>> Ed walks into a bar. Bar hits him in the face. Gets a bloody nose.
>> Bartender says "Why didn't you duck to avoid hitting the bar?"
>> Ed says -
>> ""It's ok, I walk into bars for my own personal enjoyment.
>> If I start ducking to miss the bar, I'll feel like it's
>> a job and lose the enjoyment.""
>>
>>
>> Lump
> Strange comment from a guy that gets no enjoyment from playing for himself..
> woolly bully. e "ya fied "

"fied" How are you pronouncing that ed?

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

esha...@yahoo.com wrote:

> ... from a guy that gets no enjoyment from playing for
> himself..

Oh on the contrary, I'm so much better than you could ever be
that I enjoy the heck out of playing for myself. Difference
is, others actually enjoy hearing me play. So I have the
option. I'm not stuck in the "I only play for me" excuse.


Lump

[esha...@yahoo.com]

Donald Trump style ... "fIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII. ... eDDDDDDDDD"

[esha...@yahoo.com]

Strange - when called out on it - you had a differnt answer just about a week
or 2 ago. ps- I never said Only for myself - although I do enjoy it enough
to just do it for myself. Seems there must be some that like what I do, as I have been on some pretty impressive stages and had some large cheering fans..
e

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

esha...@yahoo.com wrote:
> ... Seems there must be some that like what I
> do...

True. There must be some. Somewhere.


Lump

[gonjah]

-- X-No-Archive: Yes
On 5/22/2012 10:26 AM, esha...@yahoo.com wrote:

And they ARE NOT assholes!

Only good guys can like ed's musical ambrosia.

Formulated for the Gods!

[gonjah]

In an infinite universe all things are possible.

[Bernie Woodham]

On May 22, 1:37 pm, gonjah <gonjah.net> wrote:
> On 5/22/2012 11:15 AM, Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke wrote:
>

> > esham...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> ... Seems there must be some that like what I
> >> do...
> > True. There must be some. Somewhere.
>
> > Lump
>
> In an infinite universe all things are possible.

Then it's possible for an infinite universe to be finite. If all
things are possible. But, if it's finite then all things are not
possible.

Therefore, Not all things are possible even in an infinite universe.

[gonjah]

-- X-No-Archive: Yes

Hummm. Well then.....that lowers the odds considerably.

[esha...@yahoo.com]

How much a percentage of infine would it take to make a difference ?

e

[gonjah]

-- X-No-Archive: Yes

;)

[Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke]

some band member:

> How much a percentage of infine would it take to make a difference ?

Roughly half of infinity is finite.


Lump