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bassman2
May 20, 2013, 11:26:03 PM5/20/13
to
Shoud the use of the pick be continued to be taught, by bass teachers,
if nothing else as an additional technique that can be employed,
depending on the sound requirements?
It's a yes for me - although I can't say I have personally had any
need for it nor do I practice it at all.. but I do see where some
people may actually find it easier than plucking.
Regards to all
if nothing else as an additional technique that can be employed,
depending on the sound requirements?
It's a yes for me - although I can't say I have personally had any
need for it nor do I practice it at all.. but I do see where some
people may actually find it easier than plucking.
Regards to all
Tim
May 20, 2013, 11:30:47 PM5/20/13
to
bassman2
May 21, 2013, 12:04:33 AM5/21/13
to
Derek Tearne
May 21, 2013, 12:05:30 AM5/21/13
to
bassman2 <vince_an...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Shoud the use of the pick be continued to be taught, by bass teachers,
> if nothing else as an additional technique that can be employed,
> depending on the sound requirements?
It should be taught - and teachers should not discourage its used.
> Shoud the use of the pick be continued to be taught, by bass teachers,
> if nothing else as an additional technique that can be employed,
> depending on the sound requirements?
> It's a yes for me - although I can't say I have personally had any
> need for it nor do I practice it at all.. but I do see where some
> people may actually find it easier than plucking.
sounds right. The didactic position, held by some, that playing with a
pick is 'wrong' ignores the fact that some massive hits/important pieces
of music were played using a pick and, to get them to sound right,
there's really no substitute.
One of the definitive, and earliest, bass tuition method books was
written by Carol Kaye - who is a very strong advocate for use of a pick.
If we play a tune in the covers band, and I know it was originally
played with a pick, or if I think it will sound better with a pick I'll
do that.
Here's some more bass cam (audio not much better I'm afraid the was an
iPad attempting to record from the desk but garageband decided it only
wanted to record 8 bars...).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B640BOkWRss&feature=youtu.be
For years I didn't play bass with a pick due to that received wisdom,
from god alone know where, that bass players *shouldn't* use a pick.
My opinion is that it is a valid and common enough technique that a well
rounded bass player should master along with fingerstyle and slap/pop.
I'm still on the fence with respect to two handed tapping - possibly
because I haven't mastered it but I think mostly because the number of
tunes I want to play that rely on it is zero.
--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - de...@url.co.nz
Vitamin S: improvisation from New Zealand http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
d'Groove: 12 piece party/covers band http://www.dGroove.co.nz/
Jay S
May 21, 2013, 12:27:32 AM5/21/13
to
"bassman2" wrote in message
news:e4dd9697-e1a7-445f...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
to work for their own style.
Fingers, thumb,pick, fingers with thumb , slap, double thump, tap, fretting
hand tap, 2 hand tap, fretting hand slap are all techniques that I have
taught.
sure the majority will settle on either pick or fingers, but it doesn't hurt
having options. (of course we're talking electric bass now upright!)
I was doing a studio session and a record company producer told me that he
thinks the song would sound better played with a pick.
No argument from me, pull out a pick and record the track. (even though I
thought finger was best)
2 takes, $200 in my pocket. If I would have said that I don't use a pick, or
wasn't comfortable with it they would have called someone else.
Jay S
geoff
May 21, 2013, 2:13:41 AM5/21/13
to
"Jay S" <bas...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:knet3m$m19$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
Try playing I Saw Her Standing There without a pick !
Apart from playability, some lines just cannot genrate enough attack to give
intonation without a pick, IMO.
geoff
benj
May 21, 2013, 2:17:31 AM5/21/13
to
telling students "I'd like you to limit your techniques to just these few
that I've approved"? Tone is where you find it.
Derek Tearne
May 21, 2013, 2:59:41 AM5/21/13
to
benj <be...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
> Why would anyone NOT teach a technique? What would be the point of
> telling students "I'd like you to limit your techniques to just these few
> that I've approved"? Tone is where you find it.
Just out of interest, is there anyone here who has taken formal lessons
> Why would anyone NOT teach a technique? What would be the point of
> telling students "I'd like you to limit your techniques to just these few
> that I've approved"? Tone is where you find it.
who has been discouraged from any particular technique by their
teachers?
I guess one fairly valid reason for not teaching a particular technique
would be because the teacher does not know how to do it themselves, but
the impression I get from my friends who are teachers, is that if
presented with a requirement to teach a tune or technique that they
don't know, they'd generally learn themselves rather than say "No, I
can't do that".
BW
May 21, 2013, 4:49:41 AM5/21/13
to
On May 21, 2:59 am, de...@url.co.nz (Derek Tearne) wrote:
Pick can be taught but not to the exclusion of fingers, the most
effective method 99.999% of the time (IMO).
P.S. I play I Saw Her Standing There with my fingers all the time.
> benj <b...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
> > Why would anyone NOT teach a technique? What would be the point of
> > telling students "I'd like you to limit your techniques to just these few
> > that I've approved"? Tone is where you find it.
>
> Just out of interest, is there anyone here who has taken formal lessons
> who has been discouraged from any particular technique by their
> teachers?
>
> I guess one fairly valid reason for not teaching a particular technique
> would be because the teacher does not know how to do it themselves, but
> the impression I get from my friends who are teachers, is that if
> presented with a requirement to teach a tune or technique that they
> don't know, they'd generally learn themselves rather than say "No, I
> can't do that".
>
> --- Derek
>
> --
> Derek Tearne - de...@url.co.nz
> Vitamin S: improvisation from New Zealandhttp://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
> > Why would anyone NOT teach a technique? What would be the point of
> > telling students "I'd like you to limit your techniques to just these few
> > that I've approved"? Tone is where you find it.
>
> Just out of interest, is there anyone here who has taken formal lessons
> who has been discouraged from any particular technique by their
> teachers?
>
> I guess one fairly valid reason for not teaching a particular technique
> would be because the teacher does not know how to do it themselves, but
> the impression I get from my friends who are teachers, is that if
> presented with a requirement to teach a tune or technique that they
> don't know, they'd generally learn themselves rather than say "No, I
> can't do that".
>
> --- Derek
>
> --
> Derek Tearne - de...@url.co.nz
Pick can be taught but not to the exclusion of fingers, the most
effective method 99.999% of the time (IMO).
P.S. I play I Saw Her Standing There with my fingers all the time.
Derek Tearne
May 21, 2013, 5:37:32 AM5/21/13
to
BW <barryb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Pick can be taught but not to the exclusion of fingers, the most
> effective method 99.999% of the time (IMO).
>
> P.S. I play I Saw Her Standing There with my fingers all the time.
I used to play it fingerstyle, but now I play it with a pick.
> Pick can be taught but not to the exclusion of fingers, the most
> effective method 99.999% of the time (IMO).
>
> P.S. I play I Saw Her Standing There with my fingers all the time.
I think it sounds more Beatley with a pick.
I don't think it's particularly easier or harder either way.
Vitamin S: improvisation from New Zealand http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
Mark Bluemel
May 21, 2013, 6:13:20 AM5/21/13
to
"Under Pressure" with Gail Ann Dorsey playing bass (and singing
Freddie's parts). On the older version she played with fingers, on the
newer she played with pick. The signature "dum dum dum dumma dum dum"
sounds so much crisper and better (to my ears) with pick.
Tim
May 21, 2013, 6:39:13 AM5/21/13
to
students...
Les Cargill
May 21, 2013, 8:02:34 AM5/21/13
to
bassman2 wrote:
> Shoud the use of the pick be continued to be taught, by bass teachers,
> if nothing else as an additional technique that can be employed,
> depending on the sound requirements?
>
Absolutely.
> Shoud the use of the pick be continued to be taught, by bass teachers,
> if nothing else as an additional technique that can be employed,
> depending on the sound requirements?
>
> It's a yes for me - although I can't say I have personally had any
> need for it nor do I practice it at all.. but I do see where some
> people may actually find it easier than plucking.
>
>
> Regards to all
>
Les Cargill
Desk Rabbit
May 21, 2013, 12:29:10 PM5/21/13
to
palm muted, picked bass with plenty of top on the amp.
geoff
May 21, 2013, 4:32:46 PM5/21/13
to
"BW" <barryb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0981228f-77af-4a36...@k6g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
P.S. I play I Saw Her Standing There with my fingers all the time.
*******************
Congrats ! I can't, at least not with resulting distinct notes that
everyone can hear. No matter what bass. pickup, on eq. But that's just me I
guess.
geoff
esha...@yahoo.com
May 21, 2013, 5:58:12 PM5/21/13
to
RichL
May 21, 2013, 6:47:29 PM5/21/13
to
"bassman2" <vince_an...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e4dd9697-e1a7-445f...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Why not as a primary technique? I think it should be part of the toolbag
for all bassists. How often a given player uses it is mainly determined by
the style of music that a player adopts. But I can't see how it's a
significant additional burden for a teacher.
news:e4dd9697-e1a7-445f...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
for all bassists. How often a given player uses it is mainly determined by
the style of music that a player adopts. But I can't see how it's a
significant additional burden for a teacher.
Derek Tearne
May 21, 2013, 7:14:28 PM5/21/13
to
<esha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Can you play Yes's - Round About with fingers?? - use all available
> to get what you need. & You don't need a teacher to show you..
When I was a lot younger I used to play along to Yes, and I did so
>
> Can you play Yes's - Round About with fingers?? - use all available
> to get what you need. & You don't need a teacher to show you..
fingerstyle.
Now, in the unlikely event I get asked to play Yes covers I'd play with
a pick because I now know that Chris Squire played with a pick. But
back in the day I learned those tunes fingerstyle because everyone said
that playing with a pick was wrong and we couldn't check on YouTube to
see how someone actually played - and it's not like Yes were on 'Top of
the Pops' every week.
I remember my cousin, who was a bit older than me and also a bass player
played one of the lines from his folk rock band - a really fast jig -
and said something like "You can't play that with a pick" - so I learned
it fingerstyle and, as it is quite a workout, still play it today.
Although I would concede now, that it sounds a heck of a lot better
played with a pick, and is also a tad easier to play.
Les Cargill
May 21, 2013, 7:48:11 PM5/21/13
to
esha...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:26:03 PM UTC-5, bassman2 wrote:
>> Shoud the use of the pick be continued to be taught, by bass teachers,
>>
>> if nothing else as an additional technique that can be employed,
>>
>> depending on the sound requirements?
>>
>>
>>
>> It's a yes for me - although I can't say I have personally had any
>>
>> need for it nor do I practice it at all.. but I do see where some
>>
>> people may actually find it easier than plucking.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards to all
>
> Can you play Yes's - Round About with fingers??
I think that song is easier with fingers.
> On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:26:03 PM UTC-5, bassman2 wrote:
>> Shoud the use of the pick be continued to be taught, by bass teachers,
>>
>> if nothing else as an additional technique that can be employed,
>>
>> depending on the sound requirements?
>>
>>
>>
>> It's a yes for me - although I can't say I have personally had any
>>
>> need for it nor do I practice it at all.. but I do see where some
>>
>> people may actually find it easier than plucking.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards to all
>
> Can you play Yes's - Round About with fingers??
> - use all available to get what you need. & You don't need a teacher to show you.. Ed S.
>
Les Cargill
bassman2
May 21, 2013, 7:46:58 PM5/21/13
to
On May 21, 4:59 pm, de...@url.co.nz (Derek Tearne) wrote:
Thanks, Derek, that's my impression as well...In double bass, for
example, a teacher of mine only taught French grip, and would send
students elsewhere to learn German..
> benj <b...@iwaynet.net> wrote:
> > Why would anyone NOT teach a technique? What would be the point of
> > telling students "I'd like you to limit your techniques to just these few
> > that I've approved"? Tone is where you find it.
>
> Just out of interest, is there anyone here who has taken formal lessons
> who has been discouraged from any particular technique by their
> teachers?
>
> I guess one fairly valid reason for not teaching a particular technique
> would be because the teacher does not know how to do it themselves, but
> the impression I get from my friends who are teachers, is that if
> presented with a requirement to teach a tune or technique that they
> don't know, they'd generally learn themselves rather than say "No, I
> can't do that".
>
> --- Derek
>
> --
> Derek Tearne - de...@url.co.nz
> Vitamin S: improvisation from New Zealandhttp://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
> > Why would anyone NOT teach a technique? What would be the point of
> > telling students "I'd like you to limit your techniques to just these few
> > that I've approved"? Tone is where you find it.
>
> Just out of interest, is there anyone here who has taken formal lessons
> who has been discouraged from any particular technique by their
> teachers?
>
> I guess one fairly valid reason for not teaching a particular technique
> would be because the teacher does not know how to do it themselves, but
> the impression I get from my friends who are teachers, is that if
> presented with a requirement to teach a tune or technique that they
> don't know, they'd generally learn themselves rather than say "No, I
> can't do that".
>
> --- Derek
>
> --
> Derek Tearne - de...@url.co.nz
Thanks, Derek, that's my impression as well...In double bass, for
example, a teacher of mine only taught French grip, and would send
students elsewhere to learn German..
Derek Tearne
May 21, 2013, 8:59:27 PM5/21/13
to
bassman2 <vince_an...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Derek, that's my impression as well...In double bass, for
> example, a teacher of mine only taught French grip, and would send
> students elsewhere to learn German..
French grip vs German grip is a different kind of difference to pick vs
> Thanks, Derek, that's my impression as well...In double bass, for
> example, a teacher of mine only taught French grip, and would send
> students elsewhere to learn German..
fingerstyle.
Getting comfortable with arco - either grip - takes months, arguably
years. You need two bows - which can be quite expensive - and it really
is a preference thing. French or German doesn't really open any
different doors musically.
Whereas pick vs fingerstyle are two quite different ways of playing,
achieving different things tonally etc. The most expensive pick costs,
what, maybe $10 for something made of rare stone or endangered animal?
One does gain something as a player by knowing both, whereas being
proficient in both German and French bowing styles gains one very little
- except possibly the ability to take more students on and to be able to
use any borrowed bow in an emergency.
Vitamin S: improvisation from New Zealand http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
*e#c
May 22, 2013, 3:38:27 AM5/22/13
to
Those who CANT....teach.
Then there's Jay, the PHONY COCKSUCKER.
*e#c
May 22, 2013, 3:39:05 AM5/22/13
to
*e#c
May 22, 2013, 3:39:34 AM5/22/13
to
On May 21, 2:13 am, "geoff" <ge...@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote:
> "Jay S" <bass...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I can. NO pick required
> "Jay S" <bass...@gmail.com> wrote in message
esha...@yahoo.com
May 22, 2013, 8:58:29 AM5/22/13
to
klaw
May 22, 2013, 10:45:37 AM5/22/13
to
BW
May 22, 2013, 11:14:16 AM5/22/13
to
"Those who do...DO
Those who CANT....teach."
Completely ignorant.
Those who CANT....teach."
esha...@yahoo.com
May 22, 2013, 11:29:43 AM5/22/13
to
klaw
May 22, 2013, 1:09:34 PM5/22/13
to
Les Cargill
May 22, 2013, 1:26:27 PM5/22/13
to
Okay, so I picked up a bass and tried it - what I do is use the nail on
the index finger of my right ( picking ) hand. So turns out I am using
a "pick".
I'd forgotten how I played that one ( 1971 was a looooong time
ago ) but my hands remembered. Weird.
--
Les Cargill
Oci-One Kanubi
May 22, 2013, 1:36:30 PM5/22/13
to
On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:14:16 AM UTC-4, BW wrote:
> "Those who do...DO Those who CANT....teach." Completely ignorant.
Not only is the aphorism surpassingly stupid, but our ignorant Polka Boy couldn't even quote it correctly!
> "Those who do...DO Those who CANT....teach." Completely ignorant.
The actual aphorism is "those who can, do; those who can't, teach."
-Kanubi
esha...@yahoo.com
May 22, 2013, 1:53:46 PM5/22/13
to
Pt
May 22, 2013, 5:18:20 PM5/22/13
to
On May 22, 12:53 pm, esham...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:26:27 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:26:27 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
> > esham...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 6:48:11 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
>
>
> > > On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 6:48:11 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
>
I have never been able to hang on to a pick long enough to wear it
out.
In a couple thousand years when they search for archaeological finds
they will find thousands of picks.
"What are these things"? "Arrowheads"?
Pt
*e#c
May 22, 2013, 5:18:22 PM5/22/13
to
*e#c
May 22, 2013, 5:19:27 PM5/22/13
to
esha...@yahoo.com
May 22, 2013, 5:35:31 PM5/22/13
to
Les Cargill
May 22, 2013, 6:39:47 PM5/22/13
to
esha...@yahoo.com wrote:
<snip>
whapping the beejeebers out of his envelope, and you can hear it clip
quite a bit. It sounds "doubled" because ( I bet ) they are splitting
the Ric-O_Sound into two tracks with very different dynamics
processing.
I am not a big fan of Squire's tone, frankly.
> till the damn thing wears down to stub.. e
>
That's just how I play. No, I don't get a lot of fingernail wear. Makes
all the 16th notes easy.
"Easy" *does* matter. You don't get any difficulty points in
real life.
Next: How to play a shuffle with two fingers....
--
Les Cargill
<snip>
> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:26:27 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
>> esha...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 6:48:11 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
<snip>
>> esha...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 6:48:11 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
>>
>>> Easier is not the question. I bet it sounds like shit with your findgers . e
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It sounds just fine.
>>
>>
>>
>> Okay, so I picked up a bass and tried it - what I do is use the nail on
>>
>> the index finger of my right ( picking ) hand. So turns out I am using
>>
>> a "pick".
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd forgotten how I played that one ( 1971 was a looooong time
>>
>> ago ) but my hands remembered. Weird.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Les Cargill
>
> That might work for a littel while (although I doubt it sounds a good as a real pick),
There are a lot of variables for that sound. Some sort of limiter is
>>> Easier is not the question. I bet it sounds like shit with your findgers . e
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It sounds just fine.
>>
>>
>>
>> Okay, so I picked up a bass and tried it - what I do is use the nail on
>>
>> the index finger of my right ( picking ) hand. So turns out I am using
>>
>> a "pick".
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd forgotten how I played that one ( 1971 was a looooong time
>>
>> ago ) but my hands remembered. Weird.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Les Cargill
>
> That might work for a littel while (although I doubt it sounds a good as a real pick),
whapping the beejeebers out of his envelope, and you can hear it clip
quite a bit. It sounds "doubled" because ( I bet ) they are splitting
the Ric-O_Sound into two tracks with very different dynamics
processing.
I am not a big fan of Squire's tone, frankly.
> till the damn thing wears down to stub.. e
>
all the 16th notes easy.
"Easy" *does* matter. You don't get any difficulty points in
real life.
Next: How to play a shuffle with two fingers....
--
Les Cargill
BW
May 22, 2013, 8:53:46 PM5/22/13
to
Derek Tearne
May 22, 2013, 9:10:29 PM5/22/13
to
pick holder on the bass, I put it in my mouth. But the end of the set
I've chewed it to bits.
On the plus side, bite marks in a Jim Dunlop Big Stubby make it easier
to grip.
> In a couple thousand years when they search for archaeological finds
> they will find thousands of picks.
> "What are these things"? "Arrowheads"?
ancestors were not 'Hunter Gatherers' they were 'Guitarist Gatherers'.
Hey, that's not a bad band name.
Derek Tearne
May 22, 2013, 9:10:30 PM5/22/13
to
And those who can't use apostrophes, probably didn't spend enough time
with their teachers.
with their teachers.
RichL
May 22, 2013, 9:22:14 PM5/22/13
to
"Les Cargill" <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:knjgsk$nnk$1...@dont-email.me...
Roundabout was recorded in early 1971, which would make it fairly unlikely
that he used a '71 model. Besides, word is he used his main axe, a '64
4001, on that tune.
They still could have split his input and fed it to two different
compressors with radically different attack, decay, and threshold settings.
news:knjgsk$nnk$1...@dont-email.me...
> esha...@yahoo.com wrote:
> <snip>
>> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:26:27 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
>>> esha...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 6:48:11 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Easier is not the question. I bet it sounds like shit with your
>>>> findgers . e
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It sounds just fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Okay, so I picked up a bass and tried it - what I do is use the nail on
>>>
>>> the index finger of my right ( picking ) hand. So turns out I am using
>>>
>>> a "pick".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd forgotten how I played that one ( 1971 was a looooong time
>>>
>>> ago ) but my hands remembered. Weird.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Les Cargill
>>
>> That might work for a littel while (although I doubt it sounds a good as
>> a real pick),
>
> There are a lot of variables for that sound. Some sort of limiter is
> whapping the beejeebers out of his envelope, and you can hear it clip
> quite a bit. It sounds "doubled" because ( I bet ) they are splitting
> the Ric-O_Sound into two tracks with very different dynamics
> processing.
Ric-O-Sound wasn't available in stock 4001s until the 1971 models.
> <snip>
>> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:26:27 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
>>> esha...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 6:48:11 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Easier is not the question. I bet it sounds like shit with your
>>>> findgers . e
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It sounds just fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Okay, so I picked up a bass and tried it - what I do is use the nail on
>>>
>>> the index finger of my right ( picking ) hand. So turns out I am using
>>>
>>> a "pick".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd forgotten how I played that one ( 1971 was a looooong time
>>>
>>> ago ) but my hands remembered. Weird.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Les Cargill
>>
>> That might work for a littel while (although I doubt it sounds a good as
>> a real pick),
>
> There are a lot of variables for that sound. Some sort of limiter is
> whapping the beejeebers out of his envelope, and you can hear it clip
> quite a bit. It sounds "doubled" because ( I bet ) they are splitting
> the Ric-O_Sound into two tracks with very different dynamics
> processing.
Roundabout was recorded in early 1971, which would make it fairly unlikely
that he used a '71 model. Besides, word is he used his main axe, a '64
4001, on that tune.
They still could have split his input and fed it to two different
compressors with radically different attack, decay, and threshold settings.
*e#c
May 23, 2013, 2:38:43 AM5/23/13
to
it...."POOF "...you're a teacher......!!!!!!!
HOORAY........ Now, fuck off.
*e#c
May 23, 2013, 2:39:28 AM5/23/13
to
On May 22, 9:10 pm, de...@url.co.nz (Derek Tearne) wrote:
Who fucking cares...point made. Go make another wooden Elephant.
> *e#c <slammer...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Those who do...DO
>
> > Those who CANT....teach.
>
> And those who can't use apostrophes, probably didn't spend enough time
> with their teachers.
>
> --- Derek
>
> --
> Derek Tearne - de...@url.co.nz
> Vitamin S: improvisation from New Zealandhttp://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
> > Those who do...DO
>
> > Those who CANT....teach.
>
> And those who can't use apostrophes, probably didn't spend enough time
> with their teachers.
>
> --- Derek
>
> --
> Derek Tearne - de...@url.co.nz
Who fucking cares...point made. Go make another wooden Elephant.
*e#c
May 23, 2013, 2:40:38 AM5/23/13
to
On May 22, 9:22 pm, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Les Cargill" <lcargil...@comcast.com> wrote in message
Thats cause a Ricks action is so low, you can play them while
sleeping. Requires NO effort, or skill.
> "Les Cargill" <lcargil...@comcast.com> wrote in message
>
> news:knjgsk$nnk$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>
>
>
>
> > esham...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > <snip>
> >> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:26:27 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
> news:knjgsk$nnk$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>
>
>
>
> > esham...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > <snip>
> >> On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:26:27 PM UTC-5, Les Cargill wrote:
sleeping. Requires NO effort, or skill.
esha...@yahoo.com
May 23, 2013, 8:56:55 AM5/23/13
to
FWIW - my 67 Ric was mono when I got it in 1970 and it was stereo by 1970 & 1/2, not rocket science. ed
Les Cargill
May 23, 2013, 1:30:46 PM5/23/13
to
esha...@yahoo.com wrote:
<snip>
>
> Don't cop out
This isn't "copping out"; it's saying what part of
what do you want to reproduce?
I've done "clone parts" for people over the innernet
for a while now ( I think they were usually putting together
karakoe songs or something) ; you get an ear for how that goes.
> on saying its the gear, compression bla bla bla ..
Okay - so you're saying there's no compression? I'm discussing
how it is that he got that part to sound like that, and I
damn well guarantee you there's some sort of limiter that
is a lot of that sound. When the notes "bite" in, there's
more "splat", when they ring a bit it goes to more of a clean
roundwound ring. *That* is what a limiter sounds like. It
could be something calibrated to clip *just* right.
Far as just playing that part on any old bass; sure - it's not hard to
reproduce.
> although yes it plays a roll. Its the nice clean triplettes that make
> it.
The triplets are either Howe or Wakeman, unless you're talking
about the bridge.
The main riff "I'll be a roooound-a-bout"
is eight and sixteenth notes. It's swung a wee bit, but not
much.
> Hell I can make it sound damn close unplugged! FWIW - my 67 Ric
> was mono when I got it in 1970 and it was stereo by 1970 & 1/2, not
> rocket science. ed
>
--
Les Cargill
<snip>
>
> Don't cop out
This isn't "copping out"; it's saying what part of
what do you want to reproduce?
I've done "clone parts" for people over the innernet
for a while now ( I think they were usually putting together
karakoe songs or something) ; you get an ear for how that goes.
> on saying its the gear, compression bla bla bla ..
how it is that he got that part to sound like that, and I
damn well guarantee you there's some sort of limiter that
is a lot of that sound. When the notes "bite" in, there's
more "splat", when they ring a bit it goes to more of a clean
roundwound ring. *That* is what a limiter sounds like. It
could be something calibrated to clip *just* right.
Far as just playing that part on any old bass; sure - it's not hard to
reproduce.
> although yes it plays a roll. Its the nice clean triplettes that make
> it.
about the bridge.
The main riff "I'll be a roooound-a-bout"
is eight and sixteenth notes. It's swung a wee bit, but not
much.
> Hell I can make it sound damn close unplugged! FWIW - my 67 Ric
> was mono when I got it in 1970 and it was stereo by 1970 & 1/2, not
> rocket science. ed
>
Les Cargill
esha...@yahoo.com
May 23, 2013, 2:03:37 PM5/23/13
to
fyi - I agree part of it is the stereo effect. That's the beauty of it. Neck toaster pu nice and Fat, bridge cleaner with some reverb etc. as needed... e
klaw
May 23, 2013, 2:39:50 PM5/23/13
to
Les Cargill
May 23, 2013, 6:28:50 PM5/23/13
to
<nsip>
Nope. Not gonna happen.
> I'll give you a break and imagaine it has all kinds of bs to liven it up.
I wouldn't call it BS - it's an essential part of
that sound. You get the same bas(s)ic idea on a lot of other
players' stuff where they want that "gunngggg" sound.
> fyi - I agree part of it is the stereo effect. That's the beauty of it.
It really. is. It almost sounds doubled. That's one reason I think they
have a lot of processing on the treble pickup. Well, that and it just
sounds processed all ta' hell and back.
> Neck toaster pu nice and Fat, bridge cleaner with some reverb etc. as needed... e
>
--
Les Cargill
>
> Ok post me a clip of you doing it with your fingers...
I figured that was coming.
> Ok post me a clip of you doing it with your fingers...
Nope. Not gonna happen.
> I'll give you a break and imagaine it has all kinds of bs to liven it up.
that sound. You get the same bas(s)ic idea on a lot of other
players' stuff where they want that "gunngggg" sound.
> fyi - I agree part of it is the stereo effect. That's the beauty of it.
have a lot of processing on the treble pickup. Well, that and it just
sounds processed all ta' hell and back.
> Neck toaster pu nice and Fat, bridge cleaner with some reverb etc. as needed... e
>
Les Cargill
RichL
May 23, 2013, 6:36:13 PM5/23/13
to
"klaw" <mcou...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:05a28505-520b-4793...@googlegroups.com...
> http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2012/04/16/chris-squire-roundabout-isolated-bass-isolated-bass-week/
Fantastic! Sounds like pure Ric bridge pickup to me. Agreed there's some
compression there but it's not overwhelming. A lot of the impression of
compression derives from the natural sound of that bridge pickup combined
with aggressive picking.
news:05a28505-520b-4793...@googlegroups.com...
> http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2012/04/16/chris-squire-roundabout-isolated-bass-isolated-bass-week/
Fantastic! Sounds like pure Ric bridge pickup to me. Agreed there's some
compression there but it's not overwhelming. A lot of the impression of
compression derives from the natural sound of that bridge pickup combined
with aggressive picking.
esha...@yahoo.com
May 23, 2013, 9:13:07 PM5/23/13
to
RichL
May 23, 2013, 10:33:45 PM5/23/13
to
<esha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b04920f8-1e54-4fb8...@googlegroups.com...
The point with respect to the picking is that he's hitting the strings HARD,
and what Les identified as possible clipping is actually some fret/string
rattle.
news:b04920f8-1e54-4fb8...@googlegroups.com...
and what Les identified as possible clipping is actually some fret/string
rattle.
Les Cargill
May 24, 2013, 2:15:44 AM5/24/13
to
RichL wrote:
> <esha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b04920f8-1e54-4fb8...@googlegroups.com...
>> On Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:36:13 PM UTC-7, RichL wrote:
>>> "klaw" <mcou...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:05a28505-520b-4793...@googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2012/04/16/chris-squire-roundabout-isolated-bass-isolated-bass-week/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fantastic! Sounds like pure Ric bridge pickup to me. Agreed there's
>>> some
>>>
>>> compression there but it's not overwhelming. A lot of the impression of
>>>
>>> compression derives from the natural sound of that bridge pickup
>>> combined
>>>
>>> with aggressive picking.
>>
>> I 100% agree , that's bridge only - The FAT from the toaster is
>> missing.
Yeppers. BTW, thanks to Klaw for hunting that down.
> <esha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b04920f8-1e54-4fb8...@googlegroups.com...
>> On Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:36:13 PM UTC-7, RichL wrote:
>>> "klaw" <mcou...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:05a28505-520b-4793...@googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2012/04/16/chris-squire-roundabout-isolated-bass-isolated-bass-week/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fantastic! Sounds like pure Ric bridge pickup to me. Agreed there's
>>> some
>>>
>>> compression there but it's not overwhelming. A lot of the impression of
>>>
>>> compression derives from the natural sound of that bridge pickup
>>> combined
>>>
>>> with aggressive picking.
>>
>> I 100% agree , that's bridge only - The FAT from the toaster is
>> missing.
> not much processing at all ( maybe even a direct signal) .
how the result *sounds* processed. He's got a mighty right
hand. The notes still bloom.
Just goes to show - 99% of these things is what goes
to tape.
>> And yes the Pick and triple or what ever picking is the key, as well
>> as a few hrs old RotoS. ed
>
> The point with respect to the picking is that he's hitting the strings
> HARD, and what Les identified as possible clipping is actually some
> fret/string rattle.
an input being pushed. String rattle is a little different, although
you have a lot more time in on a Rick than I do.
--
Les Cargill
esha...@yahoo.com
May 24, 2013, 8:49:14 AM5/24/13
to
RichL
May 24, 2013, 7:53:54 PM5/24/13
to
"Les Cargill" <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:knmvvf$upe$1...@dont-email.me...
Maybe the compression is "natural" tube compression?
Derek Tearne
May 24, 2013, 8:01:23 PM5/24/13
to
RichL <rple...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK, I've seen now in a few places that he used a Sunn amp on this track.
> Maybe the compression is "natural" tube compression?
These days, most engineers will sneak some compression on bass tracks.
> OK, I've seen now in a few places that he used a Sunn amp on this track.
> Maybe the compression is "natural" tube compression?
Were they doing that in 1970?
I'd say for most recorded bass lines there it is highly likely that
there's some compression and other processing on a track that the
musician themselves wouldn't know about.
So if someone asks Chris what effects/setup he used on the track he
won't mention compression, he'll mention his pedals and amp. If someone
asks the engineer he probably won't bother to mention compression
either, unless it's being used as a 'effect'.
Vitamin S: improvisation from New Zealand http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
RichL
May 24, 2013, 9:42:50 PM5/24/13
to
"Derek Tearne" <de...@url.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1l3fd89.k0kbtnc5l2a5N%de...@url.co.nz...
compression. Sure, the engineers do their thing, and there's nothing wrong
with that. But I guess what I mean to say is that the isolated track that
was posted sounds pretty close to the sound I would get running my 4001
straight into my Ampeg.
BUT... having dug into the matter a bit more via Google search, there are a
few potential complications:
-- Some have suggested that the bass track WAS doubled, and that that
particular isolated clip we heard is just ONE of two separate bass tracks
(and that Chris's bass was modded to do the "stereo" thing despite stock '64
Rics not having Ric-O-Sound). This would go back to Les's suggestion.
-- Others have suggested that Squire recorded another track using a
12-string acoustic guitar that replicates his bass track an octave higher.
So it's at least possible that what we hear on that isolated track isn't an
adequate representation of the full story.
news:1l3fd89.k0kbtnc5l2a5N%de...@url.co.nz...
> RichL <rple...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> OK, I've seen now in a few places that he used a Sunn amp on this track.
>> Maybe the compression is "natural" tube compression?
>
> These days, most engineers will sneak some compression on bass tracks.
> Were they doing that in 1970?
Sure. George Martin was doing it with the Beatles much earlier.
>
>> OK, I've seen now in a few places that he used a Sunn amp on this track.
>> Maybe the compression is "natural" tube compression?
>
> These days, most engineers will sneak some compression on bass tracks.
> Were they doing that in 1970?
>
> I'd say for most recorded bass lines there it is highly likely that
> there's some compression and other processing on a track that the
> musician themselves wouldn't know about.
>
> So if someone asks Chris what effects/setup he used on the track he
> won't mention compression, he'll mention his pedals and amp. If someone
> asks the engineer he probably won't bother to mention compression
> either, unless it's being used as a 'effect'.
I didn't mean to imply that all the compression is "natural" tube
> I'd say for most recorded bass lines there it is highly likely that
> there's some compression and other processing on a track that the
> musician themselves wouldn't know about.
>
> So if someone asks Chris what effects/setup he used on the track he
> won't mention compression, he'll mention his pedals and amp. If someone
> asks the engineer he probably won't bother to mention compression
> either, unless it's being used as a 'effect'.
compression. Sure, the engineers do their thing, and there's nothing wrong
with that. But I guess what I mean to say is that the isolated track that
was posted sounds pretty close to the sound I would get running my 4001
straight into my Ampeg.
BUT... having dug into the matter a bit more via Google search, there are a
few potential complications:
-- Some have suggested that the bass track WAS doubled, and that that
particular isolated clip we heard is just ONE of two separate bass tracks
(and that Chris's bass was modded to do the "stereo" thing despite stock '64
Rics not having Ric-O-Sound). This would go back to Les's suggestion.
-- Others have suggested that Squire recorded another track using a
12-string acoustic guitar that replicates his bass track an octave higher.
So it's at least possible that what we hear on that isolated track isn't an
adequate representation of the full story.
Les Cargill
May 24, 2013, 10:46:35 PM5/24/13
to
RichL wrote:
> "Les Cargill" <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote in message
> news:knmvvf$upe$1...@dont-email.me...
>> RichL wrote:
<snip>
> "Les Cargill" <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote in message
> news:knmvvf$upe$1...@dont-email.me...
>> RichL wrote:
>> There's probably some ... fret buzz in there too, but I still hear
>> an input being pushed. String rattle is a little different, although
>> you have a lot more time in on a Rick than I do.
>
> OK, I've seen now in a few places that he used a Sunn amp on this track.
> Maybe the compression is "natural" tube compression?
Something's going "splat". He's doing a master class in exploiting
>> an input being pushed. String rattle is a little different, although
>> you have a lot more time in on a Rick than I do.
>
> OK, I've seen now in a few places that he used a Sunn amp on this track.
> Maybe the compression is "natural" tube compression?
it as part of the riff. It has an *incredible* energy, and there is an
air of complete attention and complete diffidence at the same time.
At some point, I reproduced that, but it was an angry part and not
something that felt good to play. I decided that I'd rather
work on people like John Deacon, Dusty Hill and Dee Murray and leave it
at that.
And Sir Paul. You can't help it. "Silly Love Songs" is just one
of the best things ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_9QooYDYtU
But really, I remember stuff like this a lot more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7kzsZreG0o
I have to wonder if anything since...
--
Les Cargill
Derek Tearne
May 25, 2013, 12:03:13 AM5/25/13
to
Les Cargill <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote:
> And Sir Paul. You can't help it. "Silly Love Songs" is just one
> of the best things ever.
Can you imagine that song without that line?
> And Sir Paul. You can't help it. "Silly Love Songs" is just one
> of the best things ever.
And it's one of the lines that, if anyone else tried it in the studio,
some bright spark would say "Oh, that's too busy, can you play fewer
notes".
> But really, I remember stuff like this a lot more:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7kzsZreG0o
>
> I have to wonder if anything since...
time they'd quantised it and run it through autotune...
esha...@yahoo.com
May 25, 2013, 8:04:06 AM5/25/13
to
FWIW - my best setup on my 67 4001 is . bridge into guitar effect board w volume pedal into 76 Marshall JMP MkII w 4x12 & neck straight in HiWatt 400 w 2x15 ( nice fat natural compression !).& a little Moog Tarus on ch2 when needed. : ' ) = ed
esha...@yahoo.com
May 25, 2013, 8:06:33 AM5/25/13
to
On Friday, May 24, 2013 7:46:35 PM UTC-7, Les Cargill wrote:
> RichL wrote:
>
> > "Les Cargill" <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote in message
>
> > news:knmvvf$upe$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> >> RichL wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >> There's probably some ... fret buzz in there too, but I still hear
>
> >> an input being pushed. String rattle is a little different, although
>
> >> you have a lot more time in on a Rick than I do.
>
> >
>
> > OK, I've seen now in a few places that he used a Sunn amp on this track.
>
> > Maybe the compression is "natural" tube compression?
>
>
>
>
>
> Something's going "splat". He's doing a master class in exploiting
>
> it as part of the riff. It has an *incredible* energy, and there is an
>
> air of complete attention and complete diffidence at the same time.
>
>
>
> At some point, I reproduced that, but it was an angry part and not
>
> something that felt good to play. I decided that I'd rather
>
> work on people like John Deacon, Dusty Hill and Dee Murray and leave it
>
> at that.
>
>
>
> And Sir Paul. You can't help it. "Silly Love Songs" is just one
>
> of the best things ever.
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_9QooYDYtU
Nice indeed.. ed
> RichL wrote:
>
> > "Les Cargill" <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote in message
>
> > news:knmvvf$upe$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> >> RichL wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >> There's probably some ... fret buzz in there too, but I still hear
>
> >> an input being pushed. String rattle is a little different, although
>
> >> you have a lot more time in on a Rick than I do.
>
> >
>
> > OK, I've seen now in a few places that he used a Sunn amp on this track.
>
> > Maybe the compression is "natural" tube compression?
>
>
>
>
>
> Something's going "splat". He's doing a master class in exploiting
>
> it as part of the riff. It has an *incredible* energy, and there is an
>
> air of complete attention and complete diffidence at the same time.
>
>
>
> At some point, I reproduced that, but it was an angry part and not
>
> something that felt good to play. I decided that I'd rather
>
> work on people like John Deacon, Dusty Hill and Dee Murray and leave it
>
> at that.
>
>
>
> And Sir Paul. You can't help it. "Silly Love Songs" is just one
>
> of the best things ever.
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_9QooYDYtU
Les Cargill
May 25, 2013, 3:20:00 PM5/25/13
to
Derek Tearne wrote:
> Les Cargill <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote:
>
>> And Sir Paul. You can't help it. "Silly Love Songs" is just one
>> of the best things ever.
>
> Can you imagine that song without that line?
>
It practically *is* the song.
> Les Cargill <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote:
>
>> And Sir Paul. You can't help it. "Silly Love Songs" is just one
>> of the best things ever.
>
> Can you imagine that song without that line?
>
> And it's one of the lines that, if anyone else tried it in the studio,
> some bright spark would say "Oh, that's too busy, can you play fewer
> notes".
>
>> But really, I remember stuff like this a lot more:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7kzsZreG0o
>>
>> I have to wonder if anything since...
>
> Again, if you tried to get that past a modern record producer by the
> time they'd quantised it and run it through autotune...
>
their money selling headphones...
> --- Derek
>
>
--
Les Cargill
Sam Wilson
May 31, 2013, 8:42:06 AM5/31/13
to
In article <Tb6dnfOcTMM0jQbM...@giganews.com>,
"geoff" <ge...@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote:
> "Jay S" <bas...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:knet3m$m19$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> >
>
>
> Try playing I Saw Her Standing There without a pick !
Heart of the Sunrise, Roundabout.
Sam
--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
"geoff" <ge...@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote:
> "Jay S" <bas...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:knet3m$m19$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> >
>
>
> Try playing I Saw Her Standing There without a pick !
Heart of the Sunrise, Roundabout.
Sam
--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
Pt
Jun 11, 2013, 6:19:26 PM6/11/13
to
On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:26:03 PM UTC-5, bassman2 wrote:
> Shoud the use of the pick be continued to be taught, by bass teachers, if nothing else as an additional technique that can be employed, depending on the sound requirements? It's a yes for me - although I can't say I have personally had any need for it nor do I practice it at all.. but I do see where some people may actually find it easier than plucking. Regards to all
> Shoud the use of the pick be continued to be taught, by bass teachers,
> if nothing else as an additional technique that can be employed,
> depending on the sound requirements?
When I was a kid I learned to play with my fingers.
In the 60's and 70's I saw a lot of bass players using a pick.
So I used a pick for awhile.
Now I'm mostly a thumb player but I can use my fingers or a pick...doesn't matter.
I get my best tone with my thumb.
I don't slap.
Pt
> Shoud the use of the pick be continued to be taught, by bass teachers, if nothing else as an additional technique that can be employed, depending on the sound requirements? It's a yes for me - although I can't say I have personally had any need for it nor do I practice it at all.. but I do see where some people may actually find it easier than plucking. Regards to all
> Shoud the use of the pick be continued to be taught, by bass teachers,
> if nothing else as an additional technique that can be employed,
> depending on the sound requirements?
When I was a kid I learned to play with my fingers.
In the 60's and 70's I saw a lot of bass players using a pick.
So I used a pick for awhile.
Now I'm mostly a thumb player but I can use my fingers or a pick...doesn't matter.
I get my best tone with my thumb.
I don't slap.
Pt
klaw
Jun 19, 2013, 1:21:46 PM6/19/13
to
esha...@yahoo.com
Jun 19, 2013, 10:06:28 PM6/19/13
to
On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:21:46 AM UTC-7, klaw wrote:
> then there's this
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wHmYsu-zY&feature=youtu.be
Nice -- Thanks -ed
> then there's this
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wHmYsu-zY&feature=youtu.be
OAK
Jun 19, 2013, 11:53:26 PM6/19/13
to
On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:21:46 -0700, klaw wrote:
> then there's this
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wHmYsu-zY&feature=youtu.be
Fantastic! Thanks very much for posting
> then there's this
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wHmYsu-zY&feature=youtu.be
OAK
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