Working with a booking agent
JoeSpareBedroom
where it's convenient for us to knock on doors for gigs, but where we'd be
OK with traveling for work if the situation warrants it. We've come up with
three requirements for the arrangement with the agent:
- We must review all contracts before signing, if the agent is the party
being asked to sign on behalf of the band.
- We'll provide a list of venues where we already have business
relationships, and the agent cannot "work" those venues.
- We've been asked to play some outdoor situations where absolutely no
preparations had been made (or even thought about) for bad weather. So, we'd
need to discuss basic requirements so you don't waste your time with
unprofessional clients.
Obviously, pricing would be added to this list too. Any other "gotchas" we
should have in mind before we begin working with the agent?
Todd H.
They're generally vermin, making a cut of what you're paid, and also
pocketing money from the venue monthly for taking care of their
entertainment needs.
We did work with a few even though they're pains in the ass.
You may find ones that love to send you into the middle of nowhere,
not do any pre show PR, you hesitate to take the gig because you know
noone in the area, but the booking agent sorta pleads with ya and says
it'll be a gateway to a bigger show he'll give ya next month, then you
do the favor for him, do the show out in east bumblefuck, then you
talk with him next month, and all you hear is that "the owner said you
guys didn't draw." And of course that big show promised for doing
him a favor never materializes. Or happens at a big venue on a
weekday of a holiday week or something lame where of course you'll
then hear you didn't draw.
I'm not saying don't deal with a booking agent, but this is the rat
race we've seen with the few we deal with around here locally.
--
Todd H toddh.net myspace.com/bmiawmb
Monkey Pi
> You may find ones that love to send you into the middle of nowhere,
> not do any pre show PR, you hesitate to take the gig because you know
> noone in the area, but the booking agent sorta pleads with ya and says
> it'll be a gateway to a bigger show he'll give ya next month, then you
> do the favor for him, do the show out in east bumblefuck, then you
> talk with him next month, and all you hear is that "the owner said you
> guys didn't draw." And of course that big show promised for doing
> him a favor never materializes. Or happens at a big venue on a
> weekday of a holiday week or something lame where of course you'll
> then hear you didn't draw.
>
I've been put in that box by club owners too.
I remember we got called literally 60 minutes before show and begged to
bail this guy out with promises of repayment with a bigger and better
show later. Amazingly, we were all available, and ready to go.
Guess what?
We didn't draw.
Monkey Pi
--
_ _
|o| o , o_,' o_, |o|
|O| <%'. _`'_ === <\_ |O|
(0) / | (_)`-' | / | (0)
p-----MonkeyMonkeyMonkey-----q
JoeSpareBedroom
news:9t93f59jfghl9c6d9...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:44:22 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> <news...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>>My band has found a booking agent who's got contacts outside of the area
>>where it's convenient for us to knock on doors for gigs, but where we'd be
>>OK with traveling for work if the situation warrants it. We've come up
>>with
>>three requirements for the arrangement with the agent:
>>
>>- We must review all contracts before signing, if the agent is the party
>>being asked to sign on behalf of the band.
>
> the band without contacting them first. I've lost a few gigs that way
> until I wised up.
>
I agree, and I should've been more clear. When I book gigs, I don't have to
consult with the rest of the band unless I'm unsure about someone's
schedule, or there's something highly unusual about the gig, like the time
we were asked to play on Mars with no tent.
>>- We'll provide a list of venues where we already have business
>>relationships, and the agent cannot "work" those venues.
>
> Shouldn't be a problem.
>
>>- We've been asked to play some outdoor situations where absolutely no
>>preparations had been made (or even thought about) for bad weather. So,
>>we'd
>>need to discuss basic requirements so you don't waste your time with
>>unprofessional clients.
>
> Definitely require covering on outdoor gigs.
I agree, so it was fun to have a conversation this past summer with someone
arranging an outdoor festival, and who told me that "Generally, rain has not
been an issue in past years." Yeah. Generally.
fourstring
"Todd H." <bmi...@toddh.net> wrote in message
news:84ws26b4ur84vdhq...@yahoo.com...
What's the difference between Santa Claus,
a cheap lawyer and a straight booking agent?
None...they're all figments of the imagination.
-C-
Scott Dickson
Scott Dickson
I worked with one in the power trio for 5 + years. Always booked,
always busy. We didnt mind his commision, since they were all , or
mostly Arena Gigs with Sound reinforcement and lights supplied.
js
ass.
Add a guarantee for outdoor gigs, period. ideally, something like "in the
even of inclement weather band will be paid x% of the total, (with "x"
ideally being 100%). The Band Representative will have the final authority
on performing during inclement weather conditions.
Event agrees to provide all support needed for the performance of a live
music group, including adequate grounded power outlets, functional lighting,
tents or coverings, space heaters or fans if outdoors. Representative
reserves the right to refuse to perform until any support issues have been
rectified to Representatives satisfaction."
Something like that. Obviously, this will all be up for negotiation, but you
should AT LEAST get a significant percentage of your nut for showing up to
the gig, and you should also get it if you feel the weather is too
bad/dangerous for you to play in.
I've been burned by that outdoors bullshit more times than I can count, so
I'm a real stickler for guarantees on those gig now.
"JoeSpareBedroom" <news...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:rYiIm.7586$fE2....@newsfe04.iad...
JoeSpareBedroom
news:fd475c8c-c53f-4d39...@s21g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
ummmm, his commision......
=========
Obviously.
Jim Carr
> I worked with one in the power trio for 5 + years. Always booked,
> always busy. We didnt mind his commision, since they were all , or
> mostly Arena Gigs with Sound reinforcement and lights supplied.
There are good and bad ones, that's for sure. Around here (Phoenix), the
local Craiglist section for Musicians often has people bitching about
the lousy ones. Asking around, of course, is by far the best route to take.
In my admittedly limited direct experience with booking agents and based
on stories I've heard from others, here are some things to look for
based on what I've seen of good and bad agents:
Website
If their only presence on the web is MySpace, that's a major red flag.
Only being on Facebook isn't all that bad because of how it works. You
can build up thousands of meaningless friends on MySpace quite easily,
but Facebook is much more "grown up" in that regard. In either case you
can see how effectively they use it to promote bands.
If they have their own domain and site, that's an indicator that they
have at least made some sort of time and financial investment. If you
see a link to a professional design company that created the site,
that's even better. Look to see if they keep the calendar updated and
offer ways to subscribe to get their events. It's no guarantee that they
are any good, but I would say they are less likely to be hacks. And the
longer the domain has been around (see www.WhoIs.org), the better.
Registered Business
If they have formed a business entity such as an LLC (or even just a dba
certificate), that's a good sign that they take it seriously and act
professionally. If they go by just their first name or nickname, like
one nasty lady around here, that's a bad sign. It's amazing to me that
bands do cash business with somebody who only goes by "Smallville
Sweetie" or "Podunk Princess" and just gives out a cell phone number.
Background Checks
Here in Phoenix it's easy to do free public searches with the County
Recorder. Here you will see lawsuits and judgments as well as mortgages
and other documents related to real estate. Again, there are no
guarantees, but I'd rather do business with somebody who has owned their
own home for six years and has no judgments than someone who rents and
just got sued by their credit card company.
In Phoenix we can also look at criminal court filings. The nasty lady
out here had a couple of DUI convictions and an assault charge. The
judge ordered her to get a psychiatric evaluation, and then at the
request of the psychiatrist had to order her *not* to bring her dog to
the sessions. It's amazing what five minutes of searching can tell you
about people.
These are just some things you can look at on your own without much
effort. No one thing guarantees the agent to be good or bad.
--
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever.
- Anonymous
DGDevin
> If they go by just their first name or nickname,
> like one nasty lady around here, that's a bad sign. It's amazing to me
> that
> bands do cash business with somebody who only goes by "Smallville
> Sweetie" or "Podunk Princess" and just gives out a cell phone number.
> In Phoenix we can also look at criminal court filings. The nasty lady
> out here had a couple of DUI convictions and an assault charge. The
> judge ordered her to get a psychiatric evaluation, and then at the
> request of the psychiatrist had to order her *not* to bring her dog to
> the sessions. It's amazing what five minutes of searching can tell you
> about people.
You're looking at this all wrong, that's not a booking agent to stay away
from, that's a country n' western song just waiting to be written.
Brian Running
> I agree, so it was fun to have a conversation this past summer with someone
> arranging an outdoor festival, and who told me that "Generally, rain has not
> been an issue in past years." Yeah. Generally.
It's just as important not to be out in the hot summer sun, it ain't
just the rain. A couple hours baking in the sun, with your instrument
going sharp and flat as the shadows move across the stage, and you
teetering on the edge of dehydration as you put down gallons of gatorade
-- do it once and you'll never want to do it again.
JoeSpareBedroom
news:5VnIm.3411$cW....@newsreading01.news.tds.net...
I assume you've played in places where there are 3 outlets on stage - one
grounded correctly, one which the tester says is "reversed", and a third
whose ground is apparently hooked up to a cheeseburger or the paper towel
dispenser in the lady's room.
Jim Carr
You make an excellent point. Interestingly, the lady that does a lot of
the booking for country bands is very reliable and honest.
Todd H.
LMAO-- DGDevin for the win!
Great post!
MegaSwing
> I'd worry less about the specific covering, and more about covering your
> ass.
>
> Add a guarantee for outdoor gigs, period. ideally, something like "in the
> even of inclement weather band will be paid x% of the total, (with "x"
> ideally being 100%). The Band Representative will have the final authority
> on performing during inclement weather conditions.
>
> Event agrees to provide all support needed for the performance of a live
> music group, including adequate grounded power outlets, functional lighting,
> tents or coverings, space heaters or fans if outdoors. Representative
> reserves the right to refuse to perform until any support issues have been
> rectified to Representatives satisfaction."
>
> Something like that. Obviously, this will all be up for negotiation, but you
> should AT LEAST get a significant percentage of your nut for showing up to
> the gig, and you should also get it if you feel the weather is too
> bad/dangerous for you to play in.
>
> I've been burned by that outdoors bullshit more times than I can count, so
> I'm a real stickler for guarantees on those gig now.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
A band I used to be in had a sliding scale for gig day compensation,
basically culminating in 'if the band starts its first song, payment
in full is required'. I forget what the different levels of
commitment were, but you get the picture. The only way no money would
change hands was if the gig was cancelled before anyone left home.
Edward G.
Baltimore, MD
DGDevin
--First Verse--
Well my agent has drinkin' and fightin' issues
Nothing too unusual there you might think
But when the judge sent her for evaluation
She up and sicced her pit-bull on the shrink
--Chorus--
Well my bookin' agent is a Podunk Princess
A Smallville Sweetie from her boots to her hair
If you complain about the gigs she gets you
She'll beat you like a drummer beats his snare
And so on....
Scott Dickson
wrote:
> "Scott Dickson" <slammer...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Sorry, I couldn't help it.
JoeSpareBedroom
=============
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c197/ancientangler/Dilbert_FlashesOfTheObvious_02.gif?t=1257473770
js
If they have formed a business entity such as an LLC (or even just a dba
certificate), that's a good sign that they take it seriously and act
professionally. If they go by just their first name or nickname, like
one nasty lady around here, that's a bad sign. It's amazing to me that
bands do cash business with somebody who only goes by "Smallville
Sweetie" or "Podunk Princess" and just gives out a cell phone number.
Eh...
I used to work with a guy out of Chicago. Had no actual "business" address
per se (pre-Internet), no advertising, never met him. He worked on personal
referrals only. He'd call with a gig, I'd say yes, a week later I'd be 2,000
miles away. I never had a problem with him at all; in fact he helped me take
care of a few serious issues on various jobs.
OTOH, I used to work for the big third party cruise agency - the one with
the splashy website and the international audions - and it was pure hell,
with no exaggeration.
Point being:
The Big agencies in any genre are usually more of a "cattle call". They just
want to put bodies on the bandstand and cash the check. They could care less
about you or the client.
Small shops tend to be more focused on a specific area (weddings for
example), a specific industry (cruise ships, amusement parks, etc) or a
specific band. The only thing that sucks is if you're NOT that specific
band.
As far as background checks? Jesus, this is the MUSIC BUSINESS, not
McDonalds. If someone is doing good business, that's all I need to know.
"Jim Carr" <newsg...@azwebpages.com> wrote in message
news:flnIm.3$W7...@newsfe11.iad...
Jim Carr
> Eh...
Well, John, if you already know how the guy conducts himself based on
referrals, then there ya go. If only I had said up front something like,
"Asking around, of course, is by far the best route to take."
Oh, wait...I did.
> Point being:
Point being that whenever YOU make a point, it's always the Final Word
If somebody else makes a point, you set up straw men so you can knock
them down.
> As far as background checks? Jesus, this is the MUSIC BUSINESS, not
> McDonalds.
Checking out someone's background when it's free and easy is *smart*
business. I care if somebody has a recent DUI conviction. I don't want
to have a problem at a gig and not be able to reach my guy because he's
on Friday night to Sunday night lockdown at the county jail.
And I don't know about you, but I don't want a guy with fraud
convictions and collection judgments being the same guy taking the cash
at the door or telling me that the owner for some strange reason
shortchanged the band by $50. I've seen it happen to other people,
mostly weekend warriors and young people in original bands who aren't
deep in the business.
> If someone is doing good business, that's all I need to know.
And I gave advice on some things you can look at that might be helpful
when you don't already know whether the guy is doing good business or not.
Gary Rosen
From Carr's first post on this subject:
"In my admittedly limited direct experience with booking agents and based
on stories I've heard from others ..."
- Gary Rosen
js
Do you know who REALLY runs the clubs you play at? Do you know where the
money goes? Have you ever heard of "money laundering"?
Do you know what the service staff do when the bar is closed, or WHY none of
these people is working a "real" job?
Agents are no different.
Jim, If you're really so afraid of "those" people, you really shouldn't be
in the business to begin with, and I'm being 100% serious.
Wow...
"Jim Carr" <newsg...@azwebpages.com> wrote in message
news:Of6Jm.1224$cd7...@newsfe04.iad...
Gary Rosen
"js" <not...@nothing.com> wrote in message
news:hd5q83$e3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> LOL! This has to be one of the funniest things I've ever heard.
>
> Do you know who REALLY runs the clubs you play at? Do you know where the
> money goes? Have you ever heard of "money laundering"?
>
> Do you know what the service staff do when the bar is closed, or WHY none
> of
> these people is working a "real" job?
>
> Agents are no different.
>
> Jim, If you're really so afraid of "those" people, you really shouldn't be
> in the business to begin with, and I'm being 100% serious.
>
> Wow...
You mean the Mother Theresas of the world aren't working in
the music business? I'm shocked, shocked ...
- Gary Rosen