rewire my jazz bass
Axtman
rewire it to volume/pan/tone. Anybody know where I can find a wiring
diagram? Also I would like wire them so that the tone is not sucked out of
them when you turn down the volume.
Thanks!
DA
Steve
Stevie
"Axtman" <da...@NADASPAMpacifier.com> wrote in message
news:13ks198...@corp.supernews.com...
I was looking into that and I read that the pan pot prevents you from being
able to have both pickups played at once at full volume - the only time any
pickup is at full volume is when the blend pot is turned all the way left or
right. This made sense to me since the pan pot is actually two stacked
variable resistors which are mechanically opposite of each other. As one
pickup is turned up, the other is turned down and although the knob when set
in the middle has both pickups at equal volume with each other, they are not
at full hilt.
Can anyone here who has a jazz with a blend pot confirm what I read? Is the
volume difference noticable?
I chose to leave mine alone because I love the thunk sound when both pickups
are full on. That's the Fender Jazz mojo! But installing a series/parallel
switch (using a push/pull pot) is very worthwhile and adds another type of
sound. That's what the S1 switch does on the American Jazzes.
Steve
You were misinformed. See my comments below.
--Steve
Stevie wrote:
> "Axtman" <da...@NADASPAMpacifier.com> wrote in message
> news:13ks198...@corp.supernews.com...
>> I love jazz basses except for the volume/volume/tone control. I want to
>> rewire it to volume/pan/tone. Anybody know where I can find a wiring
>> diagram? Also I would like wire them so that the tone is not sucked out of
>> them when you turn down the volume.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> DA
>
> I was looking into that and I read that the pan pot prevents you from being
> able to have both pickups played at once at full volume - the only time any
> pickup is at full volume is when the blend pot is turned all the way left or
> right. This made sense to me since the pan pot is actually two stacked
> variable resistors which are mechanically opposite of each other. As one
> pickup is turned up, the other is turned down and although the knob when set
> in the middle has both pickups at equal volume with each other, they are not
> at full hilt.
>
Not correct, unless it's an improperly-designed blend pot. The blend
pot is designed so that both pickups are at full volume at the center
position.
RichL
news:13ks6rn...@corp.supernews.com...
Steve, based on the diagram you posted, what's going on is that the total
output from P1 and P2 remains constant as you turn the pan pot. Consider X
to be the percentage of the output from P1 that's getting to the volume
control. If V1 and V2 are the voltages output from P1 and P2, then the
voltage at the volume control is
X*V1 + (1-X)*V2 ,
so that if the outputs of the two pickups are the same, the total at the
volume control is independent of X. It's exactly like a pan pot on a mixer,
where the correspondence is P1 --> left, P2 --> right.
The pan pot, or "balance blend pot" as it's called in the diagram, is two
ganged, carefully matched linear taper pots.
To the OP: If you don't want your signal to turn to mush, drop a small
capacitor in between the "hot" and "wiper" lugs on the volume control. In
the diagram that Steve posted, this would be the left and middle lugs of the
control. Values between .001 and .0005 (microfarads) should do the trick.
Mike Rieves
"Axtman" <da...@NADASPAMpacifier.com> wrote in message
news:13ks198...@corp.supernews.com...
because when you turn the pan to center, you lose volume on both pickups,
that's why one rarely sees passive pickups with pan or balance pots.
Typically, pickups are wired to the wiper of the volume pot so that the
resistance in parallel with the pickup decreases as the volume is tuned
down, this keeps the output impedance of the guitar relatively constant,
compared with having the pickup wired to the high side of the pot and the
wiper going to the output. The disadvantage is that the decreasing parallel
resistance affects the pickup's tone. With the wiper going to the output,
the resistance the pickup sees remains relatively constant, but you decrease
the guitar's output impedance as you turn the volume down, with the output
shorted to ground at minimum volume. Lots of amps don't like that
arrangement, and the only way to get around all this is to go with an active
pickup setup.
Mike Rieves
"RichL" <rple...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Jbq3j.38071$ng.12534@trnddc08...
You are correct, assuming that the balance/blend pot actually has each wiper
shorting to its hot lead at the center position. Not all pan or balance pots
do though, so make sure you have the right kind of balance/blend pot..
> Steve, based on the diagram you posted, what's going on is that the total
> output from P1 and P2 remains constant as you turn the pan pot. Consider
> X
> to be the percentage of the output from P1 that's getting to the volume
> control. If V1 and V2 are the voltages output from P1 and P2, then the
> voltage at the volume control is
>
> X*V1 + (1-X)*V2 ,
>
> so that if the outputs of the two pickups are the same, the total at the
> volume control is independent of X. It's exactly like a pan pot on a
> mixer,
> where the correspondence is P1 --> left, P2 --> right.
>
> The pan pot, or "balance blend pot" as it's called in the diagram, is two
> ganged, carefully matched linear taper pots.
>
> To the OP: If you don't want your signal to turn to mush, drop a small
> capacitor in between the "hot" and "wiper" lugs on the volume control. In
> the diagram that Steve posted, this would be the left and middle lugs of
> the
> control. Values between .001 and .0005 (microfarads) should do the trick.
>
Good suggestion.
jeffb
> The volume-volume-tone is much more versatile than a volume-pan-tone,
> because
And two stacked V/T pots are even more versatile but the guy wants to
wire it the way he asked. Maybe this is gonna work great for him, maybe
not. He sure as shit won't know if he doesn't try.
Steve
So you're saying that I was misinformed, not Stevie. Sorry about that.
Come to think of it, the only volume/blend setups I've seen have been
with preamps, so that makes sense.
--Steve
RichL
pickups are adding in *series*, you will perceive the volume as staying
roughly the same as you pan the pot from one extreme to the other. As I
said, if you consider the analogy with the pan pot on a mixer, the volume
you perceive stays the same as you pan from right to left. It's not weaker
when it's in the middle.
js
pickup pans have always been a tone suck for me - plus I've noticed phase
problems in some schemes. Try wiring the PUs straight to the jack first and
see for yourself.
Rich seems to have a good idea, but if I need to go through all that to
build a passive pan pot myself, I'd rather just get an active preamp.
What about a 3 way switch: neck-both-bridge? That would be my choice these
days.
"Stevie" <nos...@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:126fb$474e14f1$8b372be7$30...@ALLTEL.NET...
Benj
> Gotta disagree with the eggheads on this one. Much as I like the idea,
> pickup pans have always been a tone suck for me - plus I've noticed phase
> problems in some schemes. Try wiring the PUs straight to the jack first and
> see for yourself.
>
> Rich seems to have a good idea, but if I need to go through all that to
> build a passive pan pot myself, I'd rather just get an active preamp.
>
> What about a 3 way switch: neck-both-bridge? That would be my choice these
> days.
Gotta say something. OK, I HAVE seen blend pots that don't reduce
volume in the center. Basically as you turn it to center half of each
pot is shorted beyond the center position. This way you get both
pickups full volume in center with one dropping in volume as you turn
one way (with other staying full on) and then the opposite one
dropping in volume as you turn from center the other way (with the
other one staying full on). BUT... if you can find one of these for
sale in the modern world I'll gladly kiss your ass!
This leaves the usual blend setup. IT sort of works but in a passive
bass there are problems. One problem is that if you look at the wiring
diagram you'll notice that as you turn down a given pickup the balance
control shorts it out. This changes the tonal sound of that pickup.
Pickups prefer a constant load of the right value to best tone. It
takes an active arrangement to deal with pickup loading with a balance
control.
Which is why js and I have arrived at the same place. I love the pan
controls on my active basses and I HATE dual volumes. They are just
SUCH a pain in the ass to change the tone of your bass while you are
playing. BUT my attempts to convert Jazz basses or clones to pan
systems proved universally unsatisfactory. The ANSWER is along the
lines of what js suggests. You hit Radio Shaft for nice wafer switch
to replace the one volume control. You wire the bass volume, selector
switch, tone. The selector switch is wired to give you Neck only, both-
series, both-parallel, Bridge only. Gives you a nice range of tones
easily changed while playing. Finer adjustment really isn't needed and
the tone control gives you a tweek if you need it. This is the way to
dump those dual volume controls. To be truly cool you have to note
that both-series is louder than both-parallel so it helps to wire in a
resistor to cut the output to match other settings in the "series"
connection. On the other hand you may want to USE that louder volume
to employ the series position as a kind of "solo" setting giving a
louder deeper tone. I've done it both ways. Both have their good
points.
Jim Kelley
Stevie wrote:
> "Axtman" <da...@NADASPAMpacifier.com> wrote in message
> news:13ks198...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>I love jazz basses except for the volume/volume/tone control. I want to
>>rewire it to volume/pan/tone. Anybody know where I can find a wiring
>>diagram? Also I would like wire them so that the tone is not sucked out of
>>them when you turn down the volume.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>DA
>
>
> I was looking into that and I read that the pan pot prevents you from being
> able to have both pickups played at once at full volume - the only time any
> pickup is at full volume is when the blend pot is turned all the way left or
> right. This made sense to me since the pan pot is actually two stacked
> variable resistors which are mechanically opposite of each other. As one
> pickup is turned up, the other is turned down and although the knob when set
> in the middle has both pickups at equal volume with each other, they are not
> at full hilt.
>
> Can anyone here who has a jazz with a blend pot confirm what I read? Is the
> volume difference noticable?
What you read is basically correct. One pot is half way up and the
other is half way down at mid setting - obviously. If you used a
blend pot with twice the resistance of the stock volume control, one
might argue that half way up on the blend pot is the same as all the
way up on the stock volume pot. But it's not exactly the same.
> I chose to leave mine alone because I love the thunk sound when both pickups
> are full on. That's the Fender Jazz mojo! But installing a series/parallel
> switch (using a push/pull pot) is very worthwhile and adds another type of
> sound. That's what the S1 switch does on the American Jazzes.
I kept hitting the first volume knob and accidentally turning the neck
pickup down. I really don't like the nasal sound with either pickup
turned part way down anyway. So what I did was wire the two pickups
in series, like a p bass, and just use the one volume control, and the
tone control. It's just what I was looking for, and I no longer feel
the need to replace the Fender pickups with Seymours or Bartolinis.
jk
Benj
> I kept hitting the first volume knob and accidentally turning the neck
> pickup down. I really don't like the nasal sound with either pickup
> turned part way down anyway. So what I did was wire the two pickups
> in series, like a p bass, and just use the one volume control, and the
> tone control. It's just what I was looking for, and I no longer feel
> the need to replace the Fender pickups with Seymours or Bartolinis.
Sounds like you've got the answer. One of these days if you get
feeling ambitious get a 3 or 4 position 4 pole wafer switch. That
gives you enough switching contacts to wire anything. Then do the neck
only, both-series, both-parallel, bridge only thing. Or you can leave
the parallel one out and only do three positions. For now you are OK,
though since I find I tend to leave mine in the series position most
of the time for the deeper thump.
Axtman
"Benj" <bja...@iwaynet.net> wrote in message
news:4836a7e7-798a-4280...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
I'm intrigued. Got a wiring diagram for that?
-David
Jim Kelley
Well, I'm of the mind that a bass really has only one natural sound.
I believe this because I feel its the job of the pickups and
electronics to simply generate a signal in accurate (or at least
conventional) response to the way the strings and body are vibrating.
When this is done properly, the bass will sound basically the same
electrically as it does acoustically. So I try to get basses which to
me sound good acoustically. When necessary, I'll tweak the electrical
parts to get them to quit doing something unnatural to the sound of
the bass. That way I can use the controls on the amp (and by
extension, on the bass) to either enhance or suppress different
aspects of the natural sound. This is what I strive for, but I don't
believe it necessarily applies to anyone else.
jk
Mike Rieves
"jeffb" <jeff...@nospam.ca> wrote in message
news:qis3j.67201$cD.20974@pd7urf2no...
You're right, he won't know until he tries, but one has to wonder why the
VVT arrangement became the norm in the first place. I wired one of my
guitars so that I could have either pickup in series, parallel, or split
configuration, and both pickups in or out of phase, and both pickups in
series or parallel, but I had trouble remembering which switch was which.
There was the pickup selector switch, the neck series/split/parallel switch,
the bridge series/split/parallel switch, the pickups in/out of phase switch,
and the pickups series/parallel switch. The problem was that there were too
many combinations and I found myself spending too much time going through
them to find just the right combination for each song. :-)
RichL
news:ByM3j.12207$rc2....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Check this out:
http://www.guitargearcentral.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=114
3 pickups, 23 distinct tonal combinations. Six switches. I've got 2
guitars wired this way; I suppose I'm technically inclined to begin with and
use the guitars often, so it doesn't throw me off. All the combinations
seem to be wired into my head :-)
Benj
> "Benj" <bjac...@iwaynet.net> wrote in message
> > Sounds like you've got the answer. One of these days if you get
> > feeling ambitious get a 3 or 4 position 4 pole wafer switch. That
> > gives you enough switching contacts to wire anything. Then do the neck
> > only, both-series, both-parallel, bridge only thing. Or you can leave
> > the parallel one out and only do three positions. For now you are OK,
> > though since I find I tend to leave mine in the series position most
> > of the time for the deeper thump.
>
> I'm intrigued. Got a wiring diagram for that?
Um, no but it's easy to figure out. Start at the bass output jack. The
volume control goes there. The slider (center terminal) goes to the
jack tip connection and the outside of the jack is grounded to the
shield. One side of volume is grounded (the side the slider shorts to
when volume turned down). The other outside terminal is the "output"
connection. Only two terminals of the tone pot is used. One goes to
the "output" and the center one goes to the capacitor. The other side
of the capacitor is grounded (to jack body or shielding). If the tone
works opposite to what you are used to, use the other end terminal on
the tone pot. That's the basic bass volume/tone circuit.
Now comes the switching part. Draw on a piece of paper two pickups
with a "hot" wire and a ground wire from each. (They may have a third
shield wire that goes to bass shielding but that has nothing to do
with the switch) Now draw three switches. They would be an arrow
(slider) where each can point to one of four terminals. (12 all
together) All sliders move together when you turn the switch knob.
It's a 3 or 4 pole four position switch. You will be using 3 of the
four poles if it's a 4 pole switch
Begin by grounding the signal ground of the neck pickup. It goes to
the jack ground, shielding, etc. Then connect the remaining three
wires from the pickups to each of the three sliders on the switches.
Now you are ready to begin.
In the "neck-only" position, the "output" is connected ONLY to
terminal on the switch section going to the "hot" signal wire coming
from the neck pickup. All other terminals are unconnected.
In Bridge-only position (opposite end of the switch rotation) the Hot
line from the bridge pickup goes to the "output" PLUS you also have to
wire a ground to "signal ground" switch section in that position.
In both-parallel both pickup "hot" wires go to output PLUS the bridge
signal ground wire has to go to ground.
In both-series it gets a little trickier. Here the neck "hot" is wired
from that switch section up to the "signal ground" switch section of
the bridge pickup. Then the "hot" of the bridge pickup goes to
"output".
It sounds complex but it really makes easy sense if you draw it all
out on a large sheet of paper in a diagram. You have to sort of work
out which way pots turn and which switch positions connect to which
terminals by looking at the parts but you'll see that it isn't hard to
do.
Here's a double check. If we label each switch section as slider and
1, 2, 3, 4, terminals where 1=neck-only, 2= both-series, 3=both -
parallel, 4= bridge only.
Switch from bridge hot: 1 = no connection, 2,3,4 all to output.
Switch from Bridge gnd: 1= NC, 2 goes to 2 on neck "hot", 3,4, to
ground.
Switch from Neck hot: 1, 3, to output, 2 goes to 2 on bridge gnd, 4 =
NC.
If it still seems to obscure, I'm sure there must be some guitar techs
or other geeks you know who can help you figure it out.
Good luck!
Mike Rieves
songs, I tended to get lost in playing with all those tonal combinations,
instead of trying to lay down a decent track. I ended up rewiring that
guitar with just the original pickup selector switch and a series/parallel
switch for the bridge pickup. I now use that guitar primarily when I want a
fat Les Paul sound, and I have four other guitars to use if I want a
different sound. :-)