Phil Jones Double Four

[Steve Freides]

I was in the local Sam Ash (like Guitar Center but much better for those
of you unfamiliar with the chain) two days ago to help a young student
and his parents buy a guitar. (They settled on a sunburst MIM Strat -
nice guitar for the money, IMHO.)

They had a used Phil Jones Double Four for sale, so guess who went back
and bought it today.

I like it. If I had to guess at the response, I'd say it has a peak
near the bottom of its range before it falls off sharply, but boy, it
doesn't lack bottom end or at least what feels like bottom end.

Online reviews say a lot of upright players, of which I am one, like
this amp. I tried it w/ my Precision today and it sounded amazing for
its size, and just plain good, even not for its size.

$320 including a nice, PJ-branded carrying case.

-S-

[BW]

Very cool. I've played them in stores, but haven't taken the plunge. Got too much stuff already (maybe). Yet if I saw a good deal on a used unit, who knows?
I hope the two of you are very happy together for a long time. And I'd love a follow up with a description of various situations and how it does, once you know.

[Derek Tearne]

Steve Freides <st...@kbnj.com> wrote:


> They had a used Phil Jones Double Four for sale, so guess who went back
> and bought it today.
>
> I like it. If I had to guess at the response, I'd say it has a peak
> near the bottom of its range before it falls off sharply, but boy, it
> doesn't lack bottom end or at least what feels like bottom end.
>
> Online reviews say a lot of upright players, of which I am one, like
> this amp. I tried it w/ my Precision today and it sounded amazing for
> its size, and just plain good, even not for its size.

I have a Phil Jones briefcase, slightly larger, but much of that is
taken up with the battery.

It is tiny, but sounds just like a bass amp. Which is pretty remarkable
in such a tiny package.

Your double four is probably the same, just a little bit quieter - and
it has a DC power input - so it can be used for busking etc.

If I didn't already have the PJ briefcase I'd be interested in one of
these.

I'm not entirely convinced by the Phil Jones larger sized cabs - they
may sound great, but are heavy, unwieldy and expensive compared to other
equivalent items. But in this tiny size, but no compromise to the sound
category, I don't think anything else comes close to competing.

--- Derek


--
Derek Tearne - de...@url.co.nz
Vitamin S: improvisation from New Zealand http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/

[Brian Running]

On 2/19/2015 5:39 PM, Steve Freides wrote:

> $320 including a nice, PJ-branded carrying case.

What do you foresee yourself using it for? I have to assume not for any
kind of gig.

[Les Cargill]

Is there any hope of a max SPL figure for one of these?

--
Les Cargill

[Steve Freides]

People do use these for small gigs - I've read of several folks who like
them with upright bass. A lot of times, with upright in a small or even
medium room, you don't want much amplification, anyway.

I tried it with electric bass - passive, MIM Precision. Sounds
unbelievable, really.

I tried it with archtop electric guitar - feeds back a high volumes, as
any archtop tends to do, but sounds very nice.

I tried it with upright, with a K&K piezo - not enough output to really
drive the amp but still helped, and I have a budget preamp called an
FDeck, which will I try with it next.
https://sites.google.com/site/hpftechllc/home/hpf-pre for the budget
pre-amp.

My main interest in this was as a replacement for my GK 200MB, and old
combo amp that's been giving me troubles of late. Basically whatever
that could do, this could get pretty close to doing, and it's way
smaller. The 200 MB doesn't get really loud, either.

I don't gig much, mostly be used in my teaching studio for whatever my
students have - electric bass and electric guitar, mostly.

-S-

[Steve Freides]

Les Cargill wrote:

> Steve Freides wrote:

>> They had a used Phil Jones Double Four for sale, so guess who went
>> back and bought it today.

> Is there any hope of a max SPL figure for one of these?

I just emailed tech support because I'm not clear about what one of the
switches does, and I asked that question, too - will post back when/if I
get an answer.

-S-

[Steve Freides]

Derek Tearne wrote:
> Steve Freides <st...@kbnj.com> wrote:
>
>> They had a used Phil Jones Double Four for sale, so guess who went
>> back and bought it today.
>

> I have a Phil Jones briefcase, slightly larger, but much of that is
> taken up with the battery.
>

> Your double four is probably the same, just a little bit quieter - and
> it has a DC power input - so it can be used for busking etc.

Apparently the DC input is an odd voltage. I don't see it on the spec
sheet on the company's web site but someone said it's 20 volts. I will
confirm next time I'm in front of it, if it says that somewhere.

-S-

[Les Cargill]

Thanks much.

( using 3dB for doubling here; this is "power", not voltage... )

Just spitballing/guessing, an E/V Z1-90 8" runs about 94 dB. Scaling
for area, we'd lose 50% of that, giving us 91dB sensitivity @ 1w-M.

@ 74 watts, that's a max SPL of 18 more dB - about 109 or so. That's
about what you'd need for a trio with piano and drums for upright in
a ... 2000-4000 sq. ft. club. 4k sq. ft. is a stretch.

This is only 6 dB less than one of the two Bose L1 the band I play with
now uses. It's 9 dB less than both, and we're plenty loud ( but there's
stage volume to consider ). It's not "metal" loud, but I wear plugs...

But with one of these and a slave speaker/amp, I bet you could cover
lots of places. With a modest PA, you'd be golden unless you have
Animal on drums.

I predict that they consider sensitivity more or less proprietary
and won't answer. And it's also kind of discomfiting that they don't
consider this something a potential purchaser might need...

--
Les Cargill

[Steve Freides]

The amp has a line out so you could drive something else, e.g., a
powered speaker.

Haven't heard back from them yet but will post when I do.

-S-

[Brian Running]

On 2/24/2015 10:39 AM, Steve Freides wrote:

> People do use these for small gigs - I've read of several folks who like
> them with upright bass. A lot of times, with upright in a small or even
> medium room, you don't want much amplification, anyway.

But is it worth the money to buy an amp that's only appropriate for a
small room? Isn't it a better use of money to buy an amp that's usable
in a small to medium, or maybe even large, room? This strikes me as a
technical exercise to prove that they could build a bass amp with 4"
speakers, without much consideration for real-life situations. But - I
haven't heard one in person, so I can't say. I am a recent convert to
small, lightweight amps that perform better than I'd ever imagined
possible, but the leap from the single 12" in a MarkBass combo to two
4-inchers seems like a mighty big stretch.

[Derek Tearne]

Brian Running <runnin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2/24/2015 10:39 AM, Steve Freides wrote:
>
> > People do use these for small gigs - I've read of several folks who like
> > them with upright bass. A lot of times, with upright in a small or even
> > medium room, you don't want much amplification, anyway.
>
> But is it worth the money to buy an amp that's only appropriate for a
> small room? Isn't it a better use of money to buy an amp that's usable
> in a small to medium, or maybe even large, room? This strikes me as a
> technical exercise to prove that they could build a bass amp with 4"
> speakers, without much consideration for real-life situations.

Worth the money? That's always an interesting question.

However, if it sounds as good as the Phil Jones Briefcase (and a quick
look at reviews suggests it sounds better), it would be a really cool
amp to have for those of us who do, occassionally, need a tiny amp.

I have an Acoustic Image Ten2 - which is light, and really pretty damn
small. I have a 2x10 extension for the times when I need a little more
trouser flapping action.

Very occassionally though, like next weekend, I need something smaller
and preferably battery powered. I'll be playing one of my invented
instruments in the bush a long way from the nearest power point. Usually
if I need battery power it's to play with acoustic instruments and
70-100 watts is ideal. The alternative is the 5watt Roland micro cube,
which isn't that much cheaper. I also occassionally play at a mostly
acoustic jam night where the stage is tiny. The double 4 might be
powerful enough for that.

If I didn't have the PJ Briefcase I'd find the Double Four + battery to
be a really useful and desirable combo.

I quite often use the PJ Briefcase for practice as I can play it in any
room in the house, or even in the garden. It doesn't need to be loud,
but given the choice between a portable practice amp that sounds like,
well, most of them do, and a tiny amp that sounds like a bass amp, I'd
pay more for the Double Four.

I also note that PJB have brought out a Briefcase Ultimate - which is
150watts and still battery operated.

[Brian Running]

On 2/24/2015 9:54 PM, Derek Tearne wrote:

> Very occassionally though, like next weekend, I need something smaller
> and preferably battery powered. I'll be playing one of my invented
> instruments in the bush a long way from the nearest power point.

I'll grant you that under those circumstances, that amp might be the
very tool you need. Which reinforces my point.

[Steve Freides]

I got an email back from the sales rep, not the tech, saying to call
him, which I did. Didn't really get any information I didn't already
have, and when I started to ask about impedances and preamps, he told me
I was way overthinking things.

It's still a cool amp.

-S-

[Steve Freides]

This is way lighter and way smaller than even a MarkBass 112. We're
talking 9 lbs. vs. 30-ish.

I spent some time earlier today playing my archtop electric guitar
through both this and the old GK 200MB I just got back from the shop.
There is no question that the GK, which is a 1 x 12", I think, is a more
accurate, more pleasant sounding overall, and louder combo amp. But the
little one still is cool, still sounds good, and still has its uses.
Either one suffices for my teaching studio, and either one would suffice
for a lot of small gigs. The GK isn't all that loud, either, and if I
was playing electric in a medium sized room, I would choose the MarkBass
over either, although in my case, I'd use my Acoustic Image Ten2 (Series
III) which I adore.

-S-

-S-

[Desk Rabbit]

Nice amps. A friend of mine is a rep for them in the UK and he brought
one over for me to try last year. Very nice.

I have a PJB suitcase which I think is better suited to upright bass
because of it's upwards pointing speakers. It can certainly fill a small
room when correctly positioned against a wall or corner.