When did you stop having fun (or did you)?
brianc
music? Is it just a "job" now? Do you still posses that spark or
insperation that made you want to play in the beginning? Are you
still enjoying what you do? What keeps you going?
DGDevin
Are you talking about still wanting to get laid by being in a band?
js
ever had.
As long as you make it a point to surround yourself with good players, it's
almost always fun. Even a wedding can be a good time with quality players on
the job.
It stops being fun when you settle for mediocrity because it pays steady.
Don't get me wrong, I do a ton of those gigs, but they're always balanced
out by something artistic or challenging.
If you look at my posts, the things that REALLY piss me off and get me down
tend to be either business related, or because someone *cough*drummer or
chick singer*cough* isn't pulling his/her weight.
"brianc" <bj...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:e3b7de77-7fba-4356...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Gary Rosen
"js" <not...@nothing.com> wrote in message
news:hclsvn$b5d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> My worst day at this is still better than the best day in the best day job
> I
> ever had.
>
> As long as you make it a point to surround yourself with good players,
> it's
> almost always fun. Even a wedding can be a good time with quality players
> on
> the job.
>
> It stops being fun when you settle for mediocrity because it pays steady.
> Don't get me wrong, I do a ton of those gigs, but they're always balanced
> out by something artistic or challenging.
>
> If you look at my posts, the things that REALLY piss me off and get me
> down
> tend to be either business related, or because someone *cough*drummer or
> chick singer*cough* isn't pulling his/her weight.
Great post, John. A lot of posters to this group (all of them
hobbyists like myself I suspect) like to talk about the mythical
"jaded working pro", the guy who doesn't care if he's playing
Mustang Sally for the 3000th time and just goes thru the
motions for a paycheck. Well I think it's just that - a myth.
Playing music (or any artistic career) is usually not high-paying
and is brutally competitive and it is likely that once a pro
truly becomes "jaded" he isn't able to stay "pro" much longer.
A lot of people on the newsgroup can't get past John's
curmudgeonly "attitude" that he promotes here, sometimes
quite consciously. But it has never hidden from me the great
passion he has for playing music.
- Gary Rosen
js
1) I think the mercenary myth comes from people who , for one reason or
another, I and my fellow mercenaries just don't want to play with. Maybe
it's because they need 5-4 hour rehearsals to play a 25 song blues gig that
pays $50; Or maybe they want me to drive out to East Jesus and play 4 hours
for drinks and food.
In any event, they get very angry when I turn them down - not so much
because I won't do it, but because they PERCEIVE that I think I'm BETTER
THAN THEM. Whether or not this is the case is of little consequence. They
offered, I refused. End of story, at least it should be. But these guys take
it personally.
I remember once, this big original band in town was in desperate need of a
bassist for a big gig the next night, They heard that I was the "only" guy
in town who could learn songs that fast. The leader gives me the rundown on
the gig, emphasizing the size of the room and the sound system, which should
have been an instant red flag. They wanted me to learn 25 original songs in
a day, rehearse, and play 3 sets the next night.
Knowing that a) they songs were simple and b) They were desperate, but
highly regarded in the local music community, I quoted them an absolute
bargain basement price - I would have charged any cover band at least 3
times what I charged these guys, but I was trying to be "cool".
There was a pause on the other end and then "Um, we're not getting paid for
this gig. We were hoping you'd do it for free."
So, if I turn down learning 25 original songs and playing a gig for FREE, am
I a "mercenary" with no artistic vision, or a skilled professional with
bills to pay who can't spend hours of his only day off on every "pro bono"
case that calls him?
I turned them down. The leader was not happy, to say the least - thus adding
to my legacy...
2) Honest to Christ, there's no "attitude", nor have I created any sort of
"character here". What I type is a slightly more polished version of what
would come out of my mouth if we were sitting face to face. I DO see that
there is a certain "edge" to my posts that there is not in others, but I
think that's a byproduct of the business. Boom/Jimmy has a similar style.
Actually, most pros I know talk like that to each other, and there's rarely
a problem.
I think I piss a lot of people off because I don't pull punches, but I
don't in real life either. You should have me produce your record...
I'd also say that what people see as attitude or arrogance on my part is
most definitely not - the tone of the comment gets lost in the translation.
Oh, and sarcasm to make a point? If you don't get this, you should really
visit Buffalo/Cleveland/Pittsburgh/Philly sometime...
As I told corey benson when we met, I just don't believe in "mollycoddling"
musicians, or being tactful with points of view that I know to be wrong.
This is a BRUTAL business, whether you are amateur or pro, and I do YOU no
favors if I let you believe that say, .90 strings will make you play
"better" than .100's, or that 17 rehearsals will make you any better than
the first one, or that tablature is on par with standard notation.
WHY do I think I'm right? Because I don't pull these "opinions" out of my
ass - this is stuff that I deal with, day in, day out.
And trust me - if someone else can build a better mousetrap, I am ALL EARS.
The other thing is, I generally keep my mouth shut in threads which I no
nothing about. You wanna talk speaker building and T/S parameters? I'm
probably not going to say a word. Engineering threads? Nope. Threads that
dissect the history of the Fender headstock logo and attempt to date a
guitar based on same? Not interested.
So unless I state otherwise, if I AM posting in a thread, you can rest
assured that it's something I DO have a working knowledge of and I'm not
just talking out of my ass (unless I'm trolling, but that tends not to work
here).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not here to lord my "status" over
anyone. Hell, when I got here, I was a low man on the totem poll compared to
the guys who were posting in here. I'm still just a working stiff. In a lot
of ways, it's the group that's changed.
I'm just trying to learn, like everyone else. It's just that I do this for a
living, so a lot of the things you guys debate and discuss, I figured out a
long time ago because I had to.
"Gary Rosen" <garym...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hclvmr$qd1$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Jonathan Chase
news:e3b7de77-7fba-4356...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
When the fun-to-pay ratio turned into a
putting-up-with-intolerable-BS-to-pay ratio I knew it was time to take a
break. I don't mind playing a fun gig for cheap or a headache gig for
acceptable pay, but playing nightmare gigs for mediocre just isn't worth it
anymore. I'm sick to death of stock blues covers and "dance" songs with no
feel or soul. I will still do it and keep my mouth shut, but not for cheap.
The last fun band I had was a blast and well on their way to making real
money, until the band leader (in a trio) went on a drug binge and replaced
everyone else while I was out of town.
I got burned out and decided to take the rest of the year off, maybe 4
or 6 months away from the bars will make it interesting to go back to.
Right now my only musical goals are to figure out Pro Tools enough to invite
friends over to play on my goofy jazz tunes, and to find an interesting
singer / songwriter type to play with just to stay fresh.
I don't play a whole lot of bass right now but I'm playing other
instruments and teaching myself how to play the piano; it's really slow and
often painful but there's a real feeling of accomplishment when I can make
it through a song without getting hopelessly lost. When the bass starts to
feel like that again maybe it will be time to go find another working gig
but until then it's just not worth it.
-Jonathan
Scott Dickson
Although I'm mostly a " once a week " player ( other than Oktoberfest,
that goes a week), it's the " Karma re-charge " that keeps me going.
The rush of people partying along as you play. The fact they really
enjoy WHAT your playing. Getting told that, on a break. Getting drinks
bought for you ( for those who imbibe). Getting so high from the Gig
you don't need Drugs. Putting so much emotion into the song you sing,
you shake afterwords. Coming out with a renewed, positive outlook
overall.
On the far side....looking at your calloused, sore fingers at the end
of a Gig, and saying " I could tackle barbed wire with these babies ".
S.
JGN
I would like to add that the "going through the motions pro" guy isn't just a
musician, he exists in every job.
The Sicker Vicar
wrote:
Recording at home, once you get the hang of it, can be very
satisfying. It's great when things sound the way you imagined them.
And posting your music online, especially if it's not as your bread
and butter so you're not chasing down every illegal download or some
silly thing, can expand the audience for your music more than any gig
where...you don't even play your own music. Try acidplanet.com, it's
free for the basics and cheap for a deluxe page.
JoeSpareBedroom
> I
> ever had.
>
> As long as you make it a point to surround yourself with good players,
> it's
> almost always fun. Even a wedding can be a good time with quality players
> on
> the job.
>
> It stops being fun when you settle for mediocrity because it pays steady.
> Don't get me wrong, I do a ton of those gigs, but they're always balanced
> out by something artistic or challenging.
>
> If you look at my posts, the things that REALLY piss me off and get me
> down
> tend to be either business related, or because someone *cough*drummer or
> chick singer*cough* isn't pulling his/her weight.
I should copy this to a couple of my band members who are upset with me for
replacing our keyboard guy without talking with him for the 100th time about
his problems. After every gig, they complain about the pianist. He drives
each of them crazy in a different way. But when it came time to give him the
axe (which I have to do in about 1/2 hour), they all said "But that's so
mean. I really hate doing that."
So do I, but oh well.
The Sicker Vicar
> Gary Rosen <garymro...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > "js" <noth...@nothing.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah, but in other jobs, he has health insurance, for when he
eventually gets a repetitive-stress condition from all that going
through the motions.
The working hack is a courageous, seat-of-the-pants motion-goer-
througher, out on the cutting edge of repeated motion without a net!
The Sicker Vicar
> flying, I hate hotels, I hate having to deal with assholes and
> ego-filled fucktards, and I would love to tell everyone to take a
> flying fuck But I need the money and nothing else I can do would pay
> me as much as the slightly above shit money I get now. Honestly, if I
> knew back then what I know now, I wouldn't have even bothered playing
> an instrument at all. It's the third worst fucking business in the
> world, followed only by independent pro wrestling and crackwhoring.
Jimmy, quit holding back, man--how do you REALLY feel?
The Sicker Vicar
> "js" <noth...@nothing.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
You know, Gary, I read this newsgroup a lot, and I have for quite a
while. I don't remember ever reading about that particular stereotype,
or reading that kind of post. The exact opposite--experienced pros who
don't realize "weekend warrior" is a derogatory term (if you've
"reclaimed" it, good on ya, but that's how it's meant, ask anyone in
the regular Army how they feel about reservists--it's not a
compliment), looking down their nose at anyone and everyone who
doesn't do, think, and prefer things EXACTLY their way--that I see a
ton of, and js is the primary culprit. Look at the post right below
yours. He says ONE word of thanks before mounting his soapbox, and
then he puts the word opinion in quotes. I think that speaks volumes
about his estimation of his own opinions. (What others call respect,
he calls "mollycoddling.") He used to really bug me, but I decided to
treat him like anyone else, in any other context, who suddenly and
without invitation starts bragging on themselves and dispensing
"wisdom," as if opinions and assholes were totally dissimilar (all the
while loudly proclaiming that he is the picture of humility: "I swear,
there is NO ATTITUDE behind my always being right! I can't HELP it if
I know EVERYTHING about being a pro bassist!"). And the worst part is,
if presented in a palatable way, he'd probably have a ton to
contribute, since his experience is undeniable, but a kick in the
crotch from a Ph.D is still a kick in the crotch, so.... If this were
a bar, I'd turn my back and walk away. Why should AGB be any
different?
If you see any of these posts bashing the working pros we all wish we
were, will you point it out to me? I mean, there are a couple of posts
from me blowing a gasket at js's unbelievable pomposity, but after I
stopped bothering with him...?
"Hobbyist." That's an interesting term.
js
business.
Yeah, the pay in our business is generally horrendous, and it's one ofthe
few professions where completely untalented fucktards can call themselves
professionals just because they own gear.
But fly outs, hotels, dealing with coked out assholes? Sounds like every
other business I know.
The drummer at the church I play at has been out a lot lately. The company
he works for sends him to India to supervise the training of Indian
programmers, who are replacing his friends who got laid off in his OWN
department back home. IIRC, he took the gig in lieu of being laid off
himself.
Compared to that, playing Wonderful Tonight for the 5,467th time ain't so
bad...
"JimmyM" <m...@nnn.com> wrote in message
news:ug9te5dvoj0g25rb7...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 21:27:41 -0800 (PST), brianc <bj...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
Benj
> >The drummer at the church I play at has been out a lot lately. The company
> >he works for sends him to India to supervise the training of Indian
> >programmers, who are replacing his friends who got laid off in his OWN
> >department back home. IIRC, he took the gig in lieu of being laid off
> >himself.
>
> >Compared to that, playing Wonderful Tonight for the 5,467th time ain't so
> >bad...
>
> Well, you have a point. All jobs suck to some degree. And it is a
> job where people applaud you. Sometimes. But I figure if I'm going
> to have to put up with bullshit, I'd rather be better paid and put up
> with bullshit. Too late now.
Hate to tell you this Boomie but for the most part people pay you to
do things BECAUSE they are a pain in the ass to do! The trick is to
find those various pains in the ass to do that are much LESS of a pain
in the ass to you than they are to everybody else. I'd bet that while
you find playing bass and seeing new places and dealing with
assholyness of the music business bad, if you were crammed in to some
cubicle doing paperwork for some insurance company, under a boss who
makes the music promoters seem like Einstein, you'd be calling the
suicide hotline daily no matter what it paid! Maybe the cubicle life
suits some people, but I sure wouldn't call it living at all!
Sure like many musicians I've given up music several times. But the
problem is that music also has it's rewards and pretty soon those
rewards start calling you back. I've never figured out what the
rewards of the cubicle life are. So like most "real" musicians, you
play because you must. Yeah, it's often a pain, which is why they give
you money to do it, but when it's good, it really makes up for the
pain.
Brian Running
> So like most "real" musicians, you play because you must. Yeah, it's often a pain, which is why they give
> you money to do it, but when it's good, it really makes up for the pain.
I bet you got him straightened out real good, there, Benj. Coming from
an old full-time touring road dog such as yourself, them words is gold
to a wet-behind-the ears beginner like Jimmy.
Glad I checked in tonight!
Gary Rosen
"The Sicker Vicar" <conver...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:575dd86d-532c-4d24...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
All I can say is my reaction to John's answer to me was exactly
the opposite of yours. His simple "thank you" was all he owed
me - if he even "owed" me that, and I completely sympathized
with the rest of the post, including the stuff about his "attitude".
I regularly see posts here where people talk about amateurs they
think are so good because they are doing it for the "love of music"
along with unflattering remarks about "working pros." However
it simply stands to reason that someone who spends most of his
time doing something because he needs to do it well enough to
make a living in an extremely competitive field is usually going
to be significantly better at it than someone who does it in his
spare time. I spent a few years making a living of sorts as a
musician and it is blindingly obvious to me that I am a much
better musician than I would be if I had never done that, and
not nearly as good as I would be if I had kept on doing it.
As for terms like "weekend warrior" or "hobbyist" they are
"insulting" or "interesting" only if you want them to be. I think
they are fair descriptions.
- Gary Rosen
js
never had a stalker who didn't used to be my girlfriend...
Know what I think? I think you consider yourself a bass "expert" in
whatever little circle you're in at home.
And then you come in here, expecting to be a Big Shot with your opinions,
and there's this guy who tells you that you're flat out WRONG, has both
evidence and justification for saying so, and does it without paying you the
requisite amount of ass kissing you feel you deserve.
Unfortunately, you can't even mount an argument to defend your position, and
your little ego can't stand it because you're not the "expert" here, so you
throw a hissy fit.
It's like the guy at the hobby shop who fancies himself the HO scale
"expert", who everyone at the hobby store comes to for advice. Then one day
a bona fide railroad engineer walks in the door and tells him his track is
laid out all wrong...
Furthermore, I think your nutty posts are filled with all of the things YOU
would like to do and be - "mounting your soapbox" for instance. But the
truth is, you can't hang on the "expert" level of discourse, so you direct
your stream of consciousness ramblings at me instead. It's SO painfully
obvious in the way you read some sweeping generalization with no basis in
fact into every word I say.
I mean, why ELSE would you waste all that verbiage on someone you don't
like?
I know you don't want any "wisdom" but I'll give you some anyway - when I'm
around guys who are better/more experienced than I am at something I really
want to do, I shut the fuck up, and keep my eyes and ears open.
That one's on the house.
"The Sicker Vicar" <conver...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:575dd86d-532c-4d24...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Benj
Stop humping my leg, Brian. You have no idea what I've done or where
I've been both in and out of the music business. Why don't you sell
your bass and go back to just lying for your clients. What's that you
say? That big lawyer money for some reason just isn't enough to make
you totally happy in life? Well, waddya know about that?
Maybe you should tell Boomie about it. He's thinking that maybe money
alone is some kind of "answer".
[And no I'm not and have never been a traveling full-time touring road
dog (at least in the music business). I hate flying and the road as
much as Boomie does (and things were a LOT less hassle back then)
which is why people had to give me money to put up with that crap. The
"old" part is true though]
Brian Running
> Stop humping my leg, Brian.
You gotta quit offering it to me all the time, Benj! I wanna stop, too,
but... arrrrr arrrrrr arf! arf! Where's my squeaky toy?!
> What's that you say? That big lawyer money for some reason just isn't enough to make
> you totally happy in life? Well, waddya know about that? Maybe you should tell Boomie about it.
> He's thinking that maybe money alone is some kind of "answer".
Whoa! You mean, not only is the government reading your mind with
satellites, but they're also reading my mind, and Boomie's too, and then
beaming it into your mind?! This is truly frightening.
Hey, Benj, you know, you and I go back a long time here. I feel as if I
know you pretty well, and I think you feel the same way about me. You
give me a hard time, I give you a hard time, but I mean it when I say
that I'm not even half serious when I do. There's no ill will here.
js
All this stuff you've been through on gigs? I hate to say it, but it's just
par for the course. Instead of being hurt by it, you should look at it as
part of your "apprenticeship". After awhile, you learn to spot these
situations and avoid them before you ever get involved - but you can't do
that unless you've already been through them.
The other thing is, day jobs really aren't any better; it's just that
substance abuse, rip-offs and massive personality defects are just more in
the background. Work any job for any length of time and you'll see the same
shit bubbling up. Even worse, you can't get out because they are the ones
determining your paycheck, not you, and it takes a lot of hoop-jumping to
find another job, even in a good economy.
If you need to take a break that's cool; I know you need it. But don't run
away from the business simply because of your bad experiences. Hey, you're
already down from "never" to "6 months". Like a moth to a flame...
You want a better gig? find the guys doing what you want to do or making
what you want to make, and ask them how they got there. Sit in. Get to know
them. Eventually, they'll recommend you for something good.
You want to play "A" clubs? Find out who plays those clubs and what they
play and copy them.
You don't want to deal with assholes and shitty music? Form your own band.
OK, maybe that's not entirely true...
Point is, this isn't necessarily a "climb the ladder" business. It's more
about making connections with people who are where you want to be.
Most importantly, realize that all these experiences are as important to
your development as any scale or lesson.
"Jonathan Chase" <Jona...@JonathanChase.Net> wrote in message
news:hcme16$mqd$1...@aioe.org...
Frederic Gelinas
> The other thing is, day jobs really aren't any better; it's just that
> substance abuse, rip-offs and massive personality defects are just
> more in the background. Work any job for any length of time and
> you'll see the same shit bubbling up. Even worse, you can't get out
> because they are the ones determining your paycheck, not you, and it
> takes a lot of hoop-jumping to find another job, even in a good
> economy
I disagree: I worked for 6 years at the same place and I still
appreciated every day at that place. Too bad the company closed. I
just started another day job recently (5 weeks) and I have to say that
it looks very similar to the one I had. I'm professionally challenged
and I really the work environment and the co-workers. Maybe I'm just
too lucky or I was able to get the right jobs, but I don't think that
it's a part of everybody's destiny to deal with that "bubbling up shit".
I have a day job and will always have one. I can gig on Saturday's and
not worry about the paycheck. I can turn down any shitty gig: I don't
need the money. I can accept any free gig: I just want to have fun and
be challenged.
--
js
You'll always have a job? Granted, I don't live in a socialist paradise, but
I have to believe that even there, layoffs, mergers, budget cuts,
outsourcing and downsizing still happen.
And you've never had to deal with a psycho asshole boss, a co-worker or
supervisor who is clearly incompetent, but who you need to prop up to make
things look good, co-workers who are more concerned with partying than
getting the job done?
Not to mention the fact that whatever you are getting paid, the company is
making exponentially more from your labors.
If not, well then, good for you.
PS: I didn't make that post to debate the merits of day job vs giging. If
he's bit by "the bug", which I think he is, he already knows what I'm
talking about.
"Frederic Gelinas" <frederic...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7u3Im.45$gg6...@newsfe25.iad...
Les Cargill
> "brianc" <bj...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:e3b7de77-7fba-4356...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>> For those of you playing for a living: Do you still get off on the
>> music? Is it just a "job" now? Do you still posses that spark or
>> insperation that made you want to play in the beginning? Are you
>> still enjoying what you do? What keeps you going?
>
> When the fun-to-pay ratio turned into a
> putting-up-with-intolerable-BS-to-pay ratio I knew it was time to take a
> break. I don't mind playing a fun gig for cheap or a headache gig for
> acceptable pay, but playing nightmare gigs for mediocre just isn't worth it
> anymore. I'm sick to death of stock blues covers and "dance" songs with no
> feel or soul.
So don't do that. It's bloody hard finding like-minded people, but
it's worth it.
> I will still do it and keep my mouth shut, but not for cheap.
> The last fun band I had was a blast and well on their way to making real
> money, until the band leader (in a trio) went on a drug binge and replaced
> everyone else while I was out of town.
> I got burned out and decided to take the rest of the year off, maybe 4
> or 6 months away from the bars will make it interesting to go back to.
It might.
> Right now my only musical goals are to figure out Pro Tools enough to invite
> friends over to play on my goofy jazz tunes, and to find an interesting
> singer / songwriter type to play with just to stay fresh.
Well, there ya go. Always keep the acoustic handy. If you can
establish a duo, you can add others one at a time. I know a
singer songwriter that I have done gigs with, but I'm working out of
town now, so we don't. We are talking about doing an album though.
> I don't play a whole lot of bass right now but I'm playing other
> instruments and teaching myself how to play the piano; it's really slow and
> often painful but there's a real feeling of accomplishment when I can make
> it through a song without getting hopelessly lost.
It's worth it.
> When the bass starts to
> feel like that again maybe it will be time to go find another working gig
> but until then it's just not worth it.
> -Jonathan
>
>
Keep looking, but think about your "interview" process a little
more. And don't let it get you down.
--
Les Cargill
Gregory Rochford
>
> You want a better gig? find the guys doing what you want to do or making
> what you want to make, and ask them how they got there. Sit in. Get to know
> them. Eventually, they'll recommend you for something good.
>
> You want to play "A" clubs? Find out who plays those clubs and what they
> play and copy them.
>
> You don't want to deal with assholes and shitty music? Form your own band.
> OK, maybe that's not entirely true...
>
> Point is, this isn't necessarily a "climb the ladder" business. It's more
> about making connections with people who are where you want to be.
>
1) Decide where you want to work (company, field, etc)
2) Find an way to get an in where someone who knows you can recommend
you to a hiring manager (networking)
3) Don't quit
Or at least that's what they say at the support groups for unemployed.
best
gr
Benj
> Benj wrote:
> > Stop humping my leg, Brian.
>
> You gotta quit offering it to me all the time, Benj! I wanna stop, too,
> but... arrrrr arrrrrr arf! arf! Where's my squeaky toy?!
> Hey, Benj, you know, you and I go back a long time here. I feel as if I
> know you pretty well, and I think you feel the same way about me. You
> give me a hard time, I give you a hard time, but I mean it when I say
> that I'm not even half serious when I do. There's no ill will here.
Come on Brian, you are making me all bleary-eyed! You know we all
love you here! <sniff, sniff> What the hell would I do for fun if I
didn't have you to snap at?
But the point is still valid. As Boomie notes, money being better
always "helps" but is that a total substitute for doing things that
you enjoy? Both of us having been around the block a few times
probably don't have too many money worries now, but as hard as it is
to imagine for someone who is short of cash, the point is that there
still comes a time when you have to say that money alone just isn't
worth the hassle. And I've always found that if you stay true to
yourself and what you'd REALLY rather be doing, somehow things have a
way of working out even if you can't see how at the time. Over the
years I've observed that the help you need for whatever you are trying
to do is FAR closer than you think it is! The trick is finding out
where it is and connecting with it. <getting philosophical now> When I
look back over my life at times I'm just absolutely AMAZED at the list
of truly great people of world-class historical significance that
somehow I managed to come in contact with throughout my life. I don't
know how this happens, but it does. And I'm convinced it works for
anyone who allows it to happen.
Benj
wrote:
> I disagree: I worked for 6 years at the same place and I still
> appreciated every day at that place. Too bad the company closed. I
> just started another day job recently (5 weeks) and I have to say that
> it looks very similar to the one I had. I'm professionally challenged
> and I really the work environment and the co-workers. Maybe I'm just
> too lucky or I was able to get the right jobs, but I don't think that
> it's a part of everybody's destiny to deal with that "bubbling up shit".
Well, I've sure seen lots of shit bubbling up! I sort of developed
the idea that there is some sort of rule of the universe that EVERY
band, work group, company, office, bunch of relatives, etc. is
required to have at least ONE asshole who makes life miserable for the
rest. If you found exceptions to the rule, then we stand in awe.
But you know when I worked as a grunt for the late Professor A.H.
Benade (author of the famous books on musical physics) he said to me
that success was simply thinking what you rather be doing than
anything else in the whole world and then finding someone who will pay
you do do it! He lived it. And I've tried to do that as well. And it
sounds like you have too!
Gary Rosen
John is probably a little too cynical - there *are* some good day
jobs out there. I'm lucky in that I like what I do, get paid well,
and have worked a long time for a company with a benign
environment.
But it is true for a lot of people - tyrannical/capricious bosses,
obnoxious coworkers, boring and stifling tasks. And in
today's economy you are as likely to get screwed by your
employer as any clubowner. Some people go the
self-employed route, but unless you're really successful
you are then dealing with the same uncertainties a musician
has to put up with. In the end you just gotta do whatever
gets you through the day.
- Gary Rosen
Gary Rosen
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 02:17:38 -0800 (PST), Benj <bja...@iwaynet.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 2, 9:31 pm, Brian Running <brunn...@tds.net> wrote:
>>> Benj wrote:
>>> > So like most "real" musicians, you play because you must. Yeah, it's
>>> > often a pain, which is why they give
>>> > you money to do it, but when it's good, it really makes up for the
>>> > pain.
>>>
>>> I bet you got him straightened out real good, there, Benj. Coming from
>>> an old full-time touring road dog such as yourself, them words is gold
>>> to a wet-behind-the ears beginner like Jimmy.
>>>
>>> Glad I checked in tonight!
>>
>>Stop humping my leg, Brian. You have no idea what I've done or where
>>I've been both in and out of the music business. Why don't you sell
>>your bass and go back to just lying for your clients. What's that you
>>say? That big lawyer money for some reason just isn't enough to make
>>you totally happy in life? Well, waddya know about that?
>>Maybe you should tell Boomie about it. He's thinking that maybe money
>>alone is some kind of "answer".
>
> greatly help.
Happiness can't buy money.
- Gary Rosen
Gary Rosen
"Benj" <bja...@iwaynet.net> wrote in message
news:12573b1e-5f9c-48f0...@u20g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
> I'm just absolutely AMAZED at the list
> of truly great people of world-class historical significance that
> somehow I managed to come in contact with throughout my life.
Like PD, Jim Carr, and Rob Schuh.
- Gary Rosen
JGN
You know, being an engineer in my day job, I am very much in favor of
practical proof. I just want somebody to give the the opportunity to
experiment and prove that money can't buy happiness.
Jim Carr
> I know you're not gona want to hear me say this, but I will anyway:
>
> All this stuff you've been through on gigs? I hate to say it, but it's just
> par for the course. Instead of being hurt by it, you should look at it as
> part of your "apprenticeship". After awhile, you learn to spot these
> situations and avoid them before you ever get involved - but you can't do
> that unless you've already been through them.
Wow. This is probably the most I've ever agreed with you outside of
actual issues of playing bass. I will agree that it takes experience to
learn to recognize those situations, but I would add that we each play a
part in how every situation turns out.
If you continually find yourself (unexpectedly) in these messed up
situations, it's probably not just a failure to recognize them (after 10
years, it's almost definitely not that). You could be the catalyst (or
even the cause). While some people will treat *everyone* like shit or
*always* behave like a total moron, most will only do it when the
situation is ripe for it.
At some point you have to start asking yourself what *you* are doing
wrong. Are you unconsciously seeking out dysfunctional situations? Some
people do so their entire lives. Are the "quality" people choosing not
to associate with you? If so, why? Are you actually making good
situations worse?
There was a very serious, peer-reviewed study about how people evaluate
themselves. The gist of it was that those who rank the lowest (lowest
quartile) consistently ranked themselves much higher (50th to 60th
percentile) among their peers and also ranked their absolute scores on
tests as *much* higher than they actually were. The very worst of a
group usually figures they are a little above average.
Basically, if you don't have the skills to do something well, you also
lack the skills to evaluate yourself or your peers. Jonathan, you have
Asperger's, and one common issue is that it leads to serious problems in
social interactions with peers. For those who may not be aware, read
this: http://tinyurl.com/6zltsr.
One common symptom of Asperger's is mind-blindness. It "can be described
as an inability to develop an awareness of what is in the mind of
another human. It is not necessarily caused by an inability to imagine
an answer, but is often due to not being able to gather enough
information to work out which of the many possible answers is correct."
I'm not saying you have this problem or any of the others associated
with Asperger's. I will say again that you have a tremendous amount of
talent - few people get asked by Victor Wooten to join him on stage. And
yet after 10 years your last band was a group of weekend warriors who
wanted to play a free gig at a festival. And during that time you've
described some downright nasty situations nobody should endure.
Personally, I don't think you have an accurate assessment of how much of
this is just "the business" versus how much is a result of your own issues.
--
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever.
- Anonymous
The BorgMan
news:hcqh25$40n$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
> And you've never had to deal with a psycho asshole boss, a co-worker
> or supervisor who is clearly incompetent, but who you need to prop up
> to make things look good, co-workers who are more concerned with
> partying than getting the job done?
No, not really.
I choose not to work in places like that.
> Not to mention the fact that whatever you are getting paid, the
> company is making exponentially more from your labors.
They're also taking exponentially more monetary risk than I am. So be it.
Owning a business is a high risk, high reward proposition. Being an
employee is a lower reward, but way lower risk proposition.
--
Aaron
The BorgMan
news:2d98s6-...@despair.pu239.ru:
As my high school physics teacher once told me:
"Money won't make you happy, but being poor will almost certainly make
you miserable"
--
Aaron
The Sicker Vicar
> JGN <j.agonz...@gmaiil.com.ru> wrote innews:2d98s6-...@despair.pu239.ru:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Gary Rosen <garymro...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> "JimmyM" <m...@nnn.com> wrote in message
> >>news:l1d0f5t6avp3cacg4...@4ax.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Now I know I'm taking a risk here by actually talking about personal
details, but my mother put it thusly:
"You can get a little money, and you'll be used to it in 15 minutes.
But you can live your whole life poor, and you'll NEVER be used to it."
js
"Gary Rosen" <garym...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hcr9iv$u1b$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
MegaSwing
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 12:50:56 -0800 (PST), The Sicker Vicar
>
> "Money won't buy you happiness, but it'll buy you a boat where you can
> sail right next to it."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
>"Money won't buy you happiness, but it'll buy you a boat where you can
> sail right next to it."
...and get wiped out by its wake.
Edward G.
Baltimore, MD
MegaSwing
mcnewsxp
started again when i stopped laughing at brian eno
still love it
the playing of thebass guitar act
love it