Ibanez "Luthite" bodywork

[the Alchemist]

Greetings,

I've had an Ibanez EDA 905 for a few months and are looking at fixing
some of the things I dislike about it. I'm no Luthier, but I can handle
all of the problems save one.

This thing has the synthetic "luthite" body. It has individual bridge
saddles, some of which are not set into the body enough to allow for
lowering the action. The G and A strings are already set to their
lowest values, while the B and E are set up quite far. It's pretty
obvious that the B and E bridges sit deeper in the body than the others.

My question is whether it is safe to "chisel out" where the bridges sit
so that I can get the action down farther? I can build a jig that would
allow a Dremel to chew out the material at the same angles that the G
and A bridges sat. I figured that I could simply take out about 1mm of
material, re-attach the bridge, reset the intonation once I've set the
height, and be good to go.

Has anyone had any experience with working this "luthite" stuff, or had
experience with a wooden guitar and lowering these kind of individual
bridges? Specifically, do I run a chance of weakening the material
working it, and is this generally a bad idea, even if it were a
traditional wood body?

thanks in advance,

-E. Shawn Broughton

[pd]

Dood, just buy a new bass...it isn't worth the hassle, and you will never
be happy with it once you are done.

--

_______________

pd

http://www.virtualitystudios.com
http://www.peterduncan.net

"the Alchemist" <he...@there.com> wrote in message
news:here-BE2ED1.2...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
: Greetings,

[Andrew Cooke]

You could try working with an area that's not visible (is there a cavity
where the control wiring lives?) to see how it handles. Unless it's
hollow I can't imagine you doing any damage.

I'd give it a go, if I were you (although I've recently started raising
the action on my bass - when I started I lowered it as much as possible,
but now that I've had it some time I'm starting to realise that while
the low action is suitable for my normal style of playing there are some
things (more agressive playing) that need a higher action).

Good luck,
Andrew

[Gupta]

I'd suggest putting a thin shim under the neck to raise that up rather than
cutting into the body. At least it can be reversed later.

Gupta

"the Alchemist" <he...@there.com> wrote in message
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[Hans Åge Holmen]

How Is the neck adjusted?This will affect your action too.
"the Alchemist" <he...@there.com> skrev i melding
news:here-BE2ED1.2...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...

[the Alchemist]

The back-bow is perfect -- wouldn't dare touch it.

-esb

In article <1zSF7.10435$Fr3.1...@news1.oke.nextra.no>,

[the Alchemist]

After about 30 hours and 20 basses later, I chose this one because I
liked it. However, I do not like being limited in my adjustments if I
do want to start fiddling with it.

Why wouldn't I be happy with it later?

In article <pcJF7.39730$D7.98...@news02.optonline.net>,

[Brian E Running]

Stop right there! Put that chisel and router down and back away slowly!

When your saddles won't go low enough, that is a sure-fire sign that your
neck relief is too great. I saw in your post below that you won't dare
touch your "back-bow", but you're going to have to. If you're squeamish
about adjusting the neck, go to a good tech. Honest to Christ, I don't know
how you can say you won't dare touch your truss rod, but you're considering
chiseling into the body. People are irrationally afraid of adjusting neck
relief.

Also, as Gupta pointed out, if in fact you do need to adjust the saddles'
levels relative to the neck, the logical answer is to shim the neck, not
carve into the body. Please don't carve into the body! Somebody grab that
chisel!

"the Alchemist" <he...@there.com> wrote in message
news:here-BE2ED1.2...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...

[the Alchemist]

No, the rod doesn't need to be touched. I know how to check it. I
said that I wouldn't dare touch it because it is nearly perfect, not
because I was squeamish. Check the post again.

Nonetheless, good point on shimming the neck. Any suggestions on
material to use for this? Maybe fab up a piece of 1/8" sheet metal?

thanks again.

-esb

[Brian E Running]

Well, I hate to argue, but if your saddles are bottomed out, even without
seeing the bass, I'm willing to bet your neck is not "nearly perfect". Why
not address the symptoms in the normal way, and take out some relief? I
can't tell you how many times I have heard people say they can't get their
saddles low enough, and then when they reduce neck relief, the problem is
gone. Or, when I have the bass in-hand, I find that the relief is too
great. Just try it, if it doesn't help, adjust the neck back again.

What is the current relief? What do you consider "nearly perfect"? And, if
it's nearly perfect, why not go for perfect?

I have used countertop laminate material as a neck shim with good results.
It's hard, so it makes good solid contact, but it's easy to saw and finish,
and it's available in a wide variety of colors. You can sand it and polish
it to make an attractive, professional appearance on the edge. Find a
cabinet shop that's willing to let you pick through their scrap material,
you only need small pieces. Shim the entire contact surface between neck
and body, so you're elevating the neck without changing the neck/body
angle -- seems obvious, but some people will try to alter the angle by
putting shim only under the very end of the neck. You seriously compromise
the solidity of the joint that way.

"the Alchemist" <he...@there.com> wrote in message

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[Syrchlight]

i suggest you melt down the body and mold it to your liking. then the neck
relief won't be affected. peace, jeff

[Goopy]

Is this one of those Ibanez luthite basses with the piezo pickups under the
bridge? That might be an issue if your thinking of messing with it.

[Jordan Marr]

Interesting. I've never done it, but I always imagined you'd make a thin
wedge shaped piece to alter the angle of the neck. hmph.

jordan

[the Alchemist]

Using the method outlined through the link to bassplayer.com and last
month's issue (so that we have a similar method to reference), I have
0.013" clearance on the E and 0.015" on the B, which are probably the
same given a normal margin of error (I'm a Ph.D. Chemist, so I'm a
stickler for error evaluation). Being a brand new guitar (even though I
have seen exceptions!) I wouldn't think it would come from the factory
with a bad bow. My observation of being "nearly perfect" is merely an
indication that I have not yet tweaked it to my personal preferences (as
well as a reference to an old scientific addage that in short says that
perfection is impossible -- but I digress.....)

And frankly, if and when I do lower the action, I'll probably have to
increase the bow even more, which is the opposite of what you are
advocating.

I really like the action where it is, but I'll be damned if I'm not
given the option to experiment some night when I get really bored. I'm
more upset at not having that option for change -- especially from a
bass fresh from the factory -- than unhappy with the current setting.

So just now, for S's & G's, I backed off the tension on the rod, and
when a significant difference in action is realized, in comes the buzz.

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............

Now was that 3/4 of a turn or 1 3/4...... ah, there it is!

Yeah, I like the 'formica' idea. Normally I would jump at the chance to
tear out my plasma cutter, but my father just installed a new countertop
in the workroom, and should have some scraps laying around.

The constructive comments are much appreciated!
Many thanks indeed, Brian, and everyone else!

-esb

In article <3be85f5f$0$30966$272e...@news.execpc.com>,

[the Alchemist]

Yup, but they aren't really "under the bridge". The PE element itself
is actually the piece of metal in the saddle itself on which the string
sits. Just remove the two screws that attach each mini-bridge to the
body, and it lifts right out after removing the + feed wire (the ground
is simply wedged between the bridge and the body, and contact is made
when the bridge is screwed down tightly.) All the wires are fished
through to a separate cavity to the pre-amp, etc.

But thanks for the thought!

-esb

In article <4P1G7.21654$hZ.19...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,

[the Alchemist]

Many thanks to all that offered REAL advice on my little dilemma.

And even though I have been perusing this board for only a couple of
days, I too have developed a deep disgust with your J.S. person. Anyone
too locked in their D&D world to use their real name is of questionable
mentality. (I'm not knocking D&D -- I played it much in undergrad, but
I knew the type, which were social freaks) I'm sure that Fasalt and
Fafner themselves are frowning on his present acts. The only redeeming
feature is that the person he emulates via nomenclature meets a gruesome
death due to his own shortcomings.

You didn't expect me to infiltrate your group without becoming negative,
did you?

cheers and sláinte, all

-esb

[Brian Running]

Basses very rarely come from the factory with proper set-up, particularly
neck relief. It is safe to say that any bass with a wood neck will need the
neck adjusted, right out of the box.

Regarding your comment that you will have to increase relief if you lower
the action -- you've got it backwards. Setting the correct neck relief is
the very first thing you do in setting up a bass. Every other adjustment
depends on proper relief. Every time you change the relief, you then must
go through the whole procedure: relief, then re-tune, then string height,
then re-tune, then pickup height. You never adjust neck relief after
changing saddle height.

Also, to reduce neck relief, you tighten the truss rod, not loosen it. I
presume loosen is what you mean by "backing off". Here's a test: If the
buzz you experienced when backing off the truss rod only occurred at the
upper frets, i.e., closer to the body, then you've got too much relief. If
you've got too little relief, the buzz will be at the head end of the neck.
Visualize this: With too much relief, your neck, viewed from the side,
begins to resemble an archery bow. In the middle of the neck, where most of
your playing is done, the string is very high. That makes you want to lower
the saddles, but the problem is that you will be lowering the strings at the
body end of the neck, where they are already low. So, you get buzz at the
high frets. If you like a low action, you must straighten out the neck.
Then, the angle between the strings and the fingerboard will be uniform from
the fret all the way to the end of the neck. Generally, when you experience
the problems you're having, after you straighten the neck, you will have to
raise the saddles, often by a great deal. I've adjusted basses where, after
correcting the neck relief, the strings were lying flat on the frets, no
clearance at all.

Fifteen hundredths is 1/64 of an inch, which is generally a good relief.
However, in light of your symptoms, I really have to suggest that you take
out more relief, and then adjust the saddles. Specs are good, but empirical
data can't be ignored. Being an alchemist, you surely understand that
sometimes a little black magic is needed, even in the face of science.

If, when adjusting your truss rod, excessive force is required to turn it,
then take the thing in to a tech. There are bad truss rods out there, and
you don't want to break one. Couple of years ago, I twisted the threads
right out of a Fender Jazz bass's truss rod, even though the relief was not
even approaching spec. It's a slim chance, but you might just have a bad
one. In that case, you'd still want to take it to a tech.

"the Alchemist" <he...@there.com> wrote in message

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[the Alchemist]

No, by backing off, I meant on the bow. My bad.... I should know better
when it comes to communicating clearly.

And you know, I never thought about the neck being made out of anything
except wood until you mentioned "wood neck", but I took the cover back
off of the truss rod just now, and the headstock is the manmade
material. While the fretboard is rosewood, I can't tell what the rest
of the neck is!

Thanks for sticking with me though my incessant will to modify something
I'm completely happy with anyway, Brian. Much luck in your career.

[Jaime Batista]

Let the pro do the job is my advise 2U. It may seem like a simple procedure
but what if U F*** up ?

"the Alchemist" <he...@there.com> wrote in message

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