Locked in with the drummer...
brianc
God! Now, to the point. In this clip, I am impressed on how casual
the drummer and bassist (please identify him) keep in contact
throughout this piece . Please speak of how the drummer can effect
your performance and how you feed off of him.
js
wish they'd do a reunion.
How does a drummer affect performance? The drummer is EVERYTHING to my
performance.
With a great drummer, you should NEVER have to wonder where you are in a
tune, worry about time or pocket, or even have to count.
Play with a bad one and you'll understand.
"brianc" <bj...@comcast.net> wrote in message
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Benj
Well, some people say that Dennis Chambers has been playing the same
drum solo for the past 20 years. However, I must admit that this video
is the most impressive drumming I've ever seen come out of him.
Absolutely overwhelming in its subtlety. Yeah there are a few classic
Chambers licks in there, but he slips them in so quietly and
underwhelmingly that you don't even notice he's done it. Great stuff.
And you are right the mental contact between the drummer and bass
player throughout the piece is positively amazing. They do all the
breaks, riffs, dynamics, idea changes, new themes and everything else
like they are one instrument being played by one guy with one mind.
The last time I saw a "lock" at this level was watching the JB
drummers Clyde and Jabo doing a duet. This is phenomenal stuff. The
bass player is Gary W. Grainger. He plays a PRS bass and has his own
model they sell. If anybody wants a master class in how the bass and
drums should "lock" together, THIS is IT!
PS. And given the huge grin on Grainger's face every time he and
Chambers track each other like dogs in heat, you can see he is loving
it too.
bassman2
> Bassist is Gary Grainger. This is my all time favorite Scofield lineup; I
> wish they'd do a reunion.
>
> How does a drummer affect performance? The drummer is EVERYTHING to my
> performance.
>
> With a great drummer, you should NEVER have to wonder where you are in a
> tune, worry about time or pocket, or even have to count.
>
> Play with a bad one and you'll understand.
Agree....But what would the advice be then, back from a drummer to a
bass player, John? eg with a great bass player, you should NEVER have
to wonder ????
js
following his lead.
Great drummer and crappy bassist - drummer has to work harder to make the
time happen.
Great drummer + great bassist - time is "easy" or so I've heard it described
by drummers; they work a lot less.
"bassman2" <vince_an...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:44117b6d-68dd-47df...@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Benj
> > With a great drummer, you should NEVER have to wonder where you are in a
> > tune, worry about time or pocket, or even have to count.
>
> > Play with a bad one and you'll understand.
>
> Agree....But what would the advice be then, back from a drummer to a
> bass player, John? eg with a great bass player, you should NEVER have
> to wonder ????
The story from the drummer would be that with a great bass player you
never have to worry about what you are doing next or how to play
"musically".
Understand that for the most part, drummers improvise what they are
doing on the spot. Beyond the basic beats of the song, they don't have
the harmonic structure to lean on the way bass players can do. Drums
are inherently non-musical. I mean you are bashing on a bunch of crap
making noise! Pitches are more or less vague and undefined and harmony
and melody simply aren't your department. So how exactly does a
drummer play "musically"? In spite of the jokes, yes it can be done
and the great drummers will all tell you how important it is to play
drums musically.
Well the bottom line is that your rhythms must somehow support the
music. And the bass sits at the next level above drums as a link
between rhythm and the rest of the music. So the bass player has a
role of communicating where the music is going rhythmically to the
drummer. He does that because he is being guided by the harmony while
the drummer is not. If you look closely at the video you can observe
Grainger feeding musical ideas and signs to Chambers who instantly
converts them into drum sounds. That of course then provides feedback
to the bass player who grins and agrees.
Notice however that the bass and drums are NOT especially following
the guitarist (who seems off by himself passing a kidney stone) or the
keys. They are off on a melodic thing while bass and drums are
providing the foundation for it all. Yes, it all has to work together,
but the drums and guitarist are NOT "locked". So while they are
listening and aware of each other the communication is at a much
different level than between drums and bass.
Does any of this make sense?
dusto...@mac.com
> So how exactly does a
> drummer play "musically"? In spite of the jokes, yes it can be done
> and the great drummers will all tell you how important it is to play
> drums musically.
I had a happy experience of playing in a jazz quintette (two saxes,
piano, b/d) with a drummer who carried the music so strong in his
head, you could hear melody when he played.
Especially during solos.
(Following other good comments in this thread, the way I've thought
about it is): Good drummers take all the work out of it.
--D-y
Brian Running
> With a great drummer, you should NEVER have to wonder where you are in a
> tune, worry about time or pocket, or even have to count.
>
> Play with a bad one and you'll understand.
Absolutely. A great drummer means you never even have to think about
being "in the pocket," it's automatic. I can put up with just about
anything in a band, but a drummer that doesn't have a strong sense of
time is just plain no fun. It's work all the way, fighting for tempos.
It doesn't even require a great drummer -- just a drummer with a
metronome-solid sense of time. One that you can count two tacet bars in
the middle of a song, and come in on exactly the downbeat without having
eye contact. When you've got that, then you can concentrate on your own
playing. Good things can happen.
js
even bad egotistical chick singers - but if the time is not happening, I'd
rather be ANYWHERE but there. Taking a check for playing with bad time is
my definition of "whore" from a previous thread.
One of the best drummers I ever played with was this guy who worked with Big
Daddy Kinsey, a Joe Turner-esque blues shouter who is the father of some of
the guys in The Kinsey Report.
Big Daddy and the drummer showed up to a blues gig I was running. The
drummer was this shriveled old black guy with one eye who looked like Gollum
from Lord Of The Rings. The regular drummer on my gig was, shall we say,
more prog rock oriented...
The guy sits down and says "we gonna do it like this: one anna two, anna..."
And he heads into THE most ferocious shuffle I have ever heard. It was the
groove I had been waiting for. I picked it up right away, and from the look
on his face, I could tell the guy was shocked that a white boy could keep
up.
We did 3 or 4 tunes, and in that whole time I don't think I heard a SINGLE
fill - it was bass, snare and HH, shuffling as fierce as could be. I don't
even remember what anyone else was doing, that shuffle was just so HUGE.
It was like great sex, I swear.
"Brian Running" <brun...@tds.net> wrote in message
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