What musical era would you have liked to have been born in?
bassman2
you could go back to a musical era, a sort of a golden age, where
instruments, amps and music buisness may have been a lot simpler,
what woud it be an why? Are the 60's considered this golden age, in so
far as bass playing goes too?
Vince
eadg
news:d8b02fb4-452f-4494...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
I've seen a few eras come and go over the years I've been
playing (since '66) and in terms of equipment, on the
surface, I've hardly moved on...my first ever paying gig was
on a Framus eub with a Selmer Futurama amp, I now use an NS
eub with a Contra or a Markbass amp. Both have similar eq,
and are smaller than the Futurama but are on a different
planet when comparing sound. 5, 6, and 7 string basses are
freely available too.
Knowing what I know now, I'd like to be born next week if
possible.
--
SR
js
craft, pop songs had melody AND chord changes, any kid with a guitar could
make a buck, and a $100 gig actually put food on the table.
"bassman2" <vince_an...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d8b02fb4-452f-4494...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Derek Tearne
Well, the Rennaissance would have been a good time to be a musician -
and I've always wanted to play one of those theorboes...
Bass playing specifically though, the 'golden age', assuming it isn't
here now, was the 'seventies' - with a couple of wiggle years at the
beginning and maybe the end (as calendar decades don't neatly fit with
cultural decades).
Pretty much all the innovation happened during that time - bass players
started coming forwards in the mix (Entwistle, Squire, Bruce, Jaco etc),
the last of the modern styles appeared (funk, slap), 5 and 6 string
basses appeared in the mid 70's. Two genres where virtuoso bass playing
is valued - progressive rock and jazz - were both at their creative
peaks.
--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - de...@url.co.nz
Vitamin S - improvisation from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
bassman2
> Well, the Rennaissance would have been a good time to be a musician -
> and I've always wanted to play one of those theorboes...
Derek, you didn't think this would slip under the radar, did you?
According to Wikipedia:
A theorbo (Italian: tiorba, also tuorbe; French: théorbe, German:
Theorbe) is a plucked string instrument...The etymology of the name
tiorba has not yet been explained. It is hypothesized that its origin
might have been in the Slavic or Turkish "torba", meaning "bag" or
"turban".
Theorboes were developed during the late sixteenth century, inspired
by the demand for extended bass range for use in opera developed by
the Florentine Camerata and new musical works based on basso continuo,
such as Giulio Caccini's two collections, Le nuove musiche (1602 and
1614). Musicians adapted bass lutes (c.80+ cm string length) with a
neck extension to accommodate open (i. e. unfretted) bass strings,
called diapasons or bourdons. The instrument was called both
chitarrone and tiorba. Although theorbo and chitarrone are virtually
identical, they have different etymological origins, chitarrone being
a descendant of chitarra italiana (hence its name).
Now, 2010 seems to have began with a heavy accent on culture and
languages, as per previous thread..Not a bad thing, until a new thread
brings us back to earth, eg what to do with that annoying fluff that
builds up in the belly button :-))
Derek Tearne
> > Well, the Rennaissance would have been a good time to be a musician -
> > and I've always wanted to play one of those theorboes...
>
> Derek, you didn't think this would slip under the radar, did you?
> According to Wikipedia:
Oh, sorry, I thought everyone knew what one of these was - and OK so
they are late rennaissance but that's not really the point - they were
very cool instruments with loads of strings - some of which were very
low pitched for the day. Not many of them around, and they pretty much
have to be custom made by one of a handful of luthiers, so unless I win
lotto or make one from scratch they're pretty much out of my reach.
Also, the kind of people that edit wikipedia like to pretend they know
the difference, or even that there is a difference, between theorboes,
chittarones and archlutes - but really no one can say for sure which is
which any more - it's a bit like us arguing over the difference between
a four string and five string bass guitar.
But don't tell them I said this or they'll be knocking on my door with
pitchforks and stuff. Those early music folks can get very passionate
about such minutae.
Jonathan Chase
news:d8b02fb4-452f-4494...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
I'd go forward one hundred, maybe one hundred and fifty years. Assuming
we haven't all killed each other yet, by then nobody will have any idea what
a live band or well written song even sounds like. The Clearchannel
Supercomputer (SkyNet) will write, produce, create, and distribute all
mainstream music and the underground music scene will be almost as bad, but
people will think it sounds better because it's not on the radio and costs
ten times as much.
The market will be perfect for a time traveler with a nice bass, some
acceptable chops, and the long-forgotten major sixth chord.
-Jonathan
Golem
I think it would be cool to
play calliope in the circus.
Or, tin pan alley days are
another attractive option.
Really anytime before the
coming of wanker geetar
players, and that includes
bass guitar.
BW
I'd like to have met/played with/for Gershwin, Bernstein, Copland, CSN
(&Y), Joni, JT, Judy Collins, Ronstadt, which, I guess puts me in the
40s - 60s (although some are still producing and vibrant).
Hey, wait a minute! That IS when I started (late 60s)! How come I
haven't done those gigs! Damn.
dusto...@mac.com
> bassman2 <vince_angelon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Sure today we have all the modern basses, strings, amps etc. but if
> > you could go back to a musical era, a sort of a golden age, where
> > instruments, amps and music buisness may have been a lot simpler,
> > what woud it be an why? Are the 60's considered this golden age, in so
> > far as bass playing goes too?
>
> Well, the Rennaissance would have been a good time to be a musician -
> and I've always wanted to play one of those theorboes...
>
> Bass playing specifically though, the 'golden age', assuming it isn't
> here now, was the 'seventies' - with a couple of wiggle years at the
> beginning and maybe the end (as calendar decades don't neatly fit with
> cultural decades).
>
> Pretty much all the innovation happened during that time - bass players
> started coming forwards in the mix (Entwistle, Squire, Bruce, Jaco etc),
> the last of the modern styles appeared (funk, slap), 5 and 6 string
> basses appeared in the mid 70's. Two genres where virtuoso bass playing
> is valued - progressive rock and jazz - were both at their creative
> peaks.
I think the "rock mix" at least changed well before the 70's began.
"We Gotta Get Out of This Place", 1965
"Bernadette", Four Tops, Jamerson, 1967
"Shotgun", Jr. Walker, 1965
Just grabbed a few, quickly. I'd say off the top of my head, the bass
started really coming to the front in about 1963, or '62.
My poor old brain will take a deep breath while I go walk the dogs and
maybe I can back that up with some actuality.
Linkages with Jamerson/Motown, British Invasion bands, for sure. Phil
Spector, probably, also. Come on, brain!
--D-y
Golem
About "the mix" and bass "to the front" ....
I wouldn't call the Motown/Funk Brothers [Jamerson]
era a "bringing bass to the front" situation. While the
bass IS prominent, it's not played as anything like a
lead part. What I hear happening in those mixes, and
I really dig it, it that the VOX [heh heh heh ... ] is the
definitive lead part, and not too far beneath vox is the
rhythm section ... as supportive and nearly essential
to the vox. This is akin to street corner vox harmony
performance with hand clapping, tambourine, and a
'scat' bari-vox bigman
The rest of the instruments, fuzz guitar, KB, horns if
any, are mixed waaay down, as a melodic backdrop.
So, thaz the Motown mix I hear and admire:
1.Vox, of acapella quality, as the top layer.
2. Bass and Drums beneath vox but still prominent.
3. Other stuff WELL BELOW the Vox-Riddem bunch,
as melodic backdrop.
Thaz the default mix thru most of a tune. Obviously,
there are plenty of times when some instrument hits
the front for a brief solo or a quick emphatic phrase.
But it's hit-and-run, not a real frontman part.
I don't hear any real "front" bass there. It's more of
a "singin' handclappin' session", plus polite support
by the rest of the band. What I REALLY dig about
these mixes is the way the guitar is all tube-fuzzed
and overdriven, but sounds like some single-engine
small airplane flying overhead, at least a mile away !
Mike Fleming
<d8b02fb4-452f-4494...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
bassman2 <vince_an...@hotmail.com> writes:
> Sure today we have all the modern basses, strings, amps etc. but if
> you could go back to a musical era, a sort of a golden age, where
> instruments, amps and music buisness may have been a lot simpler,
> what woud it be an why?
70s for playing, present day for instruments, amps, effects, speakers,
etc.
--
Mike Fleming
dusto...@mac.com
> About "the mix" and bass "to the front" ....
>
> I wouldn't call the Motown/Funk Brothers [Jamerson]
> era a "bringing bass to the front" situation. While the
> bass IS prominent, it's not played as anything like a
> lead part.
I'm not thinking "lead part"; more like making the bass prominent-- as
compared to say, big band, where most of the time (Big Noise from
Winnetka excepted) the string bass is not prominent. Or Dixieland. You
might not hear the bass much at all, directly in many popular music
recordings of the 50's and early 60's.
"A change in musical styles" (bye bye Frank Sinatra) when guitar/bass/
maybe keys/drums (and voxes, of course) took over from "horns and
orchestras". Ray Charles' ABC/Paramount sides are an exception that
comes to mind; being a 50's kid and my mom being a music freak, I
heard what was on the radio and TV and our Webcor mono HiFi set.
Meaning, it's been many a moon and I'm speaking in general terms here.
I grabbed one Motown hit, Reach Out For Me, Four Tops, 1966 (August).
My description is, the bass is "just about as loud" as the voxes but
at lower frequency, which, along with some good recording technique,
lets the bass (more than drums) share the "front" in the mix.
Pretty much the same kind of thing with Wilson Pickett (Stax), for
instance. "Heavy bass", the line mostly very easy to hear, over keys
and "other".
I just skimmed a few to make sure I think I know what I'm talking
about <g>. Including a couple of Jerry Butler sides from VeeJay, where
sometimes the bass is "back" and sometimes more "front", but forgive
me if I don't take the time to track the recording dates and see if
maybe this doesn't reflect a change from 1960 ("He Will Break Your
Heart", which I would call "bass in the middle" <g>) and on to '67
when he went to Mercury.
BTW, I heard Jerry Butler sing "O Holy Night" a few years ago (IMS) on
Twine Time Christmas Show (Paul Ray's show on KUT radio, Austin Tx).
He sang it straight, especially the "Fall on your knees, O hear the
angel voices" line where many really slaughter that song. Great, great
stuff.
--D-y
Gary Rosen
"Golem" <dro...@dot.state.ny.us> wrote in message
news:3473c217-ddaf-4f85...@26g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
It's true the vocals were #1 at Motown. But if you
compare to music that went before, the bass was
way more prominent in Motown than it had been
before. They knew the best musician in the
house was Jamerson. Why do you think that
"My Girl", one of the most enduring and beloved
Motown songs, starts with solo bass?
- Gary Rosen
Benj
> i couldn't go back to any era that didn't have central air/heat.
Heh. You remind me of a woman I knew who marked the beginning of
"civilization" from the invention of permanent press! Unfortunately
it seems permanent press has pretty much disappeared and civilization
has pretty much retrogressed to the 1930s. Where everybody walked
around looking like a wrinkled mess and the Germans had not yet solved
the fast dye problem!
As for me, for drums there is no doubt in my mind. The "golden era" to
go back to would be big band era of the 1930s and 40s. The drum set
was finally shaken down into a standard instrument and Gene Krupa had
managed to bring the drummer forward in the public's mind as a solo
instrument. The music was hot and the drummer got to "drive" the
entire band. whew!
But bass playing of that era wasn't like that. It was upright and
rather conservative IMHO. I sort of feel the "golden era" of the bass
guitar hasn't yet arrived! It seems to me that one day people
(musicologists) will all be going on about how Jaco, Entwhistle, etc.
were the early pioneers laying the groundwork for the astounding bass
innovation of (name not known yet) which can be seen in his classic
MP3 (title not known yet). And ever since the whole panorama of bass
(guitar) playing has completely changed for the better. Yeah, I want
to be there for that.
MegaSwing
I think I would have enjoyed writing words and music during the age
that produced the bulk of the American songbook. Guys like the
Gershwins, Andy Razaf, Johnny Mercer, Harry Warren, Sammy Cahn, Hoagy
Carmichael, and Harold Arlen did some amazing, eternal work. Oscar
Hammerstein is one of my songwriting heroes, because his words were so
honest and straightforward, and worked so well in the music and the
stories he helped tell. It's hard to see a place for that kind of
popular songwriting anymore. IMO, with rare exceptions, modern show
tunes have sucked for almost two generations.
I would have loved being involved in the musical world surrounding the
the late-50s/early-60s Brill Building, as a writer or player, even
though it was instrumental in the demise of that earlier brand of
songcraft. There is just something stirring and magical about being
part of something that is totally new, making a commercial/ artistic
scene that never existed before. That's what they had, and to a large
extent, they were pretty oblivious to what they were doing and the
effect they had on popular culture. The greatest artistic
accomplishment of all is creating something enduring and worth
remembering.
In both cases, the technology was largely secondary, a necessary means
to an end. The song, the story, the artistic vision, was the driving
force. For a long time now, since the early 70s at least, technology
has been a substitute for artistic depth. The unyielding trend ever
since has been on perfecting the technical, then the marketing, rather
than on making engaging songs, telling compelling stories. I view it
as a huge misdirection play designed to sell product and conceal its
shortcomings at the same time.
Bass playing and equipment design are in the same predicament. It
matters little how good your equipment sounds, or how many notes you
can play, or what wood and electronics are in your instrument, if the
music you play lacks creative sparkle. The horse is being dragged
behind the cart.
The upside is that it can't go on forever. Which is why going 'back
to basics' may be the best way to find yourself 'ahead of the curve'.
YMMV.
Edward G.
Baltimore, MD
Les Cargill
I'd say now is a good time. There's nothing stopping you
from performing any style from the past - indeed, I
see that as a market advantage, as opposed to simply
being a generic cover band or performing originals.
--
Les Cargill