Sealed lead-acid batteries for my Pignose Hog 30

[Oci-One Kanubi]

The Pignose Hog-30 I use for street-singing on Sunday afternoons uses two lead-acid batteries labeled "BT-6M4.0AC" and "6V4.0Ah/20HR".

Replacement cost from Pignose is ~$50 each, but the brick&mortar Batteries Plus store has a 6V5.0Ah of the same size and connectors, for about $15 each.

Is it safe to replace the 4Ah batteries with 5Ah batteries? Trying to dredge up some junior-high-school physics from the mists of history, it seems to me that the Ah rating simply refers to how much power the battery can supply if the device demands it, right? IOW, if the Pignose tries to draw 4Ah from a 5Ah battery all will be swell, but if it tried to draw 5Ah from a 4Ah battery there could be problems, right?


Next question stems from Pignose's charging instructions. The original batteries have Pignose labels slapped across the original Taiwanese labels, which say "KEEP ME CHARGED OR I'LL DIE YOUNG. Play until low and then recharge for 8 to 10 hours."

I have a couple of problems with this. Firstly, if I try to "play until low" I risk getting caught out on the street when the amp starts farting out because it's been drained; I really don't want to take it outside, away from AC power, unless it is fully charged. Secondly, if there are several rainy Sundays in a row I might go weeks without using it, so if I disconnect the charger after "recharg[ing] for 8 to 10 hours" I don't really know how much of a charge it will have retained when I next need it.

So the second question is: is it safe, and will it not adversely affect battery life, if I just leave it on the charger for days and weeks at a time between uses? (This is what I do with my camera batteries, and it can be weeks of months between boating trips or road trips -- the only places I use the actual camera instead of my smartphone camera, because the actual camera is waterproof -- and those batteries hold up famously.)

Thanks,
Richard, His Bassic Travesty
Nothing really matters except boats, sex, and rock'n'roll

[Oci-One Kanubi]

On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
> The Pignose Hog-30 I use for street-singing on Sunday afternoons uses two lead-acid batteries labeled "BT-6M4.0AC" and "6V4.0Ah/20HR".

Clarification: the labels "BT-6M4.0AC" and "6V4.0Ah/20HR" both appear on each battery.

Rereading after posting, it looked as if I might have been saying one battery had one of those labels and the other battery had the other label, but... no.

-Kanubi

The two original-equipment batteries were identical.

[Derek Tearne]

Oci-One Kanubi <rho...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> The Pignose Hog-30 I use for street-singing on Sunday afternoons
> uses two lead-acid batteries labeled "BT-6M4.0AC" and "6V4.0Ah/20HR".
>
>

> Is it safe to replace the 4Ah batteries with 5Ah batteries?

It's definitely safe to replace batteries that are the same
type/shape/voltage but with higher Ah - in fact its a good idea to do
so.

As rechargeable battery technology improves we're getting more amp hours
for the same size/shape batteries - which means a longer playing time.

It might not be safe to replace it with a battery of a different type
(NiCd or NiMH or Li-ion etc) as the charger built into the pignose might
not work well with the different kinds.

Whether or not it's safe to leave the pignose hooked up to the charger
is entirely to do with the design of the charger and battery. Some are
good with leaving things plugged in all the time recharging, others
aren't.

--- Derek


--
Derek Tearne - de...@url.co.nz
Vitamin S: improvisation from New Zealand http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/

[benj]

I'm guessing your Pignose used standard lead-acid gel cells which are
typical of UPS supplies and available all over the place online.

I have a hedge trimmer and a weed whacker that uses those. If they are
the same size and voltage (usually 6 or 12) they are fine replacements.
As Derek said, a higher amp-hour rating is fine, in fact desirable.

Story time: You have to be careful with online batteries. A friend of
mine ordered a bunch of UPS batteries (I was using some of his "bad"
ones in my Weed whacker). So I decided to order some too because they
were quite cheap. But I didn't remember the name of the place he got
them and ordered them from someplace else. All his batteries were great!
Mine arrived and the 6 volt one was already half-dead. And of the two 12
volt ones only one of them was fine. Needless to say lead batteries are
so heavy sending them back for a refund is out of the question. So be
careful out there!

Story time 2: Prior to Y2K I set up a solar panel and a boat trolling
battery (deep cycle lead acid... liquid not gelled). Well, the system
wasn't very spectacular (Contrary to Greens would be useful for one
light bulb or watching TV every day) But the deal is that the constant
low amperage constant trickle charge over a year or so killed my boat
battery. So there is some truth to the constant charge thing. However,
note that a car battery is constantly charging even when fully charged.
So I think a lot here "depends".

Story time 3: So the hedge trimmer is about to die again and I decided
it was about time for a change. There is one battery that you can charge
forever and it doesn't die...Namely the lithium Ion battery in your
laptop. These have amazing capacity for weight and size. They are
reasonably cheap from China even on EBAY. And if you root around you'll
find they make these racks of a number of Li batteries that you can make
supplies that simulate 6 or 12 volts (voltages are different so you have
to decide if going over voltage a bit is OK or not. Going lower may be
underpowered. But once that is figured, you'll (I'll) have a much better
lighter and more powerful battery pack. Options are you can take out the
individual batteries from the holders for charging OR they sell chargers
with the electronics to charge the whole array from a single charge
(convenient). This may be an answer for both of us. check it out.

http://www.batteryspace.com/Battery-holder-Li-Ion-18650-Battery-Holder-4S1P-With-2.6-long-20AWG.aspx


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[Oci-One Kanubi]

On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Oci-One Kanubi wrote:

> The Pignose Hog-30 I use for street-singing on Sunday afternoons uses two lead-acid batteries labeled "BT-6M4.0AC" and "6V4.0Ah/20HR".
>
> Replacement cost from Pignose is ~$50 each, but the brick&mortar Batteries Plus store has a 6V5.0Ah of the same size and connectors, for about $15 each.
>
> Is it safe to replace the 4Ah batteries with 5Ah batteries?

Thanks, Derek and Benj. I'll go with the otherwise-identical 5Ah replacements.

The lead-acid batteries from the battery store are more expensive than they are online (though I'll bet it would be pretty durned close after figuring in S&H) and Batteries Plus is a brick & mortar place just two miles from home, so I would have a lot more leverage, in the event of bad product, than I would with an online vendor.

I'll try to get Pignose's input WRT my second question.

-Richard, is Bassic Travesty

[Oci-One Kanubi]

On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
>

> Next question stems from Pignose's charging instructions. The original batteries have Pignose labels slapped across the original Taiwanese labels, which say "KEEP ME CHARGED OR I'LL DIE YOUNG. Play until low and then recharge for 8 to 10 hours."
>
> I have a couple of problems with this. Firstly, if I try to "play until low" I risk getting caught out on the street when the amp starts farting out because it's been drained; I really don't want to take it outside, away from AC power, unless it is fully charged. Secondly, if there are several rainy Sundays in a row I might go weeks without using it, so if I disconnect the charger after "recharg[ing] for 8 to 10 hours" I don't really know how much of a charge it will have retained when I next need it.
>
> So the second question is: is it safe, and will it not adversely affect battery life, if I just leave it on the charger for days and weeks at a time between uses? (This is what I do with my camera batteries, and it can be weeks of months between boating trips or road trips -- the only places I use the actual camera instead of my smartphone camera, because the actual camera is waterproof -- and those batteries hold up famously.)
>

I finally got a reply to my eMail to Pignose. It was remarkably sparse as to detail, but seemed to imply that it is not good for the batteries to simply leave them on the charger whenever I am not using the amp, and otherwise essentially just repeated the "play until low, then recharge" admonition.

I guess what I will do is put it on the charger for 8 hours each time I arrive home after using it, then take it off the charger, but when next I expect to use it, if it has been more than a week since it was on the charger, plug it in for 3 or 4 hours before taking it out to play.

-Richard, His Bassic Travesty

[benj]

I think this makes sense. It's what I do with my hedge trimmer. Done
trimming I plug it in for a bit to start to charge it back up a little
bit and then take it off the charge until the next time. But what you
need to do is figure out how long it takes to charge back up from run
down and then before you use it again put it on the charger for that
length of time. That's what I do with the trimmer. The down side is you
have to plan ahead and put the battery on the charger some time before
you plan to use it. Since you sing on the weekends that is probably
easier than me figuring out when the next trimming is needed.

I think the evidence (and my experience) is that trickle charging for
long periods of time is bad for these batteries. Using my charge before
using method my batteries seem to last for quite a number of years with
no problems.

[Steve Freides]

Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
> The Pignose Hog-30 I use for street-singing on Sunday afternoons uses
> two lead-acid batteries labeled "BT-6M4.0AC" and "6V4.0Ah/20HR".
>
> Replacement cost from Pignose is ~$50 each, but the brick&mortar
> Batteries Plus store has a 6V5.0Ah of the same size and connectors,
> for about $15 each.
>
> Is it safe to replace the 4Ah batteries with 5Ah batteries? Trying
> to dredge up some junior-high-school physics from the mists of
> history, it seems to me that the Ah rating simply refers to how much
> power the battery can supply if the device demands it, right? IOW,
> if the Pignose tries to draw 4Ah from a 5Ah battery all will be
> swell, but if it tried to draw 5Ah from a 4Ah battery there could be
> problems, right?

You got that exactly right according to my understanding - should be no
problem, and you might get a longer service time between charges.

I have my Phil Jones Double Four running on batteries now - kicks ass,
highly recommended. The PJ comes with a laptop-like power brick and
runs on 19v DC using that. You buy a battery pack for a laptop, you
charge it w/ the power brick that comes w/ the PJ (link below), and then
you can run the PJ from the battery.

http://www.amazon.com/Lenmar-PowerPort-External-Notebook-Adapters/dp/B008EG64PC

-S-

[Oci-One Kanubi]

Wow, A.G.B lives! I was about ready to send a wreath!

That sounds great, Steve. I googled up a few reviews of it, and they all glowed. It evidently weighs about 1/3 of the weight of my Pignose, and produces over twice the power, undoubtedly with much higher fidelity.

But for street-singing I'd have to think long and hard about spending $450 (plus the battery you recommend) to replace my $150 Pignose!

Thanks for the review,
-Richard

[Steve Freides]

I had no intention of getting one of these but when I saw it used at a
local Sam Ash, heard it was a bass amp, and tried it, I had to get it.
Mine cost me $350.

I've also used mine to do other things, e.g., I used it with a $35 Dean
Markeley acoustic guitar pickup when I had to play classical guitar for
an art reception in the foyer of the town hall here, and I also used it
as a playback device.

Skip having coffee out for a few weeks, save your money, and get one,
then sell the Pignose to help fund it - that's my advice.

-S-