Thought I had a lemon Hartke 4.5
krhine
Ampeg 15.) Anyway, the Hartke sounded terrible, like there was gravel
bouncing off the cones. The tech support folks for Hartke said it sounded
like a blown speaker, send it in, etc... Well, being the curious type, I
pulled the speakers trying to find the offending party and couldn't detect
which one, and I doubted if all four cones would be defective. Then I
looked at the wiring and found some inconsistencies with the (+) and (-)
poles. Once I straightened that out, the cab seemed to sound much better,
sounding like it was supposed to, relieving me of the need to send Hartke
more money and to waste more time.
Does this seem plausible or did I really screw something up? Anyone else
have similar experiences?
Brian E Running
cabinet "seemed" to sound better after you changed the wiring. Does it now
sound right or not?
krhine <krh...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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John "Lynrd" Leonardini
wrote:
Details, please...what did you do to "straighten in out"?...if the
cabinet was wired seies-parallel there is a lot of odd seeming wiring
going on...
what is the impedance of the cabinet after you "Straightened it out"?
Eric Moesle
excactly did you find and change?
"krhine" <krh...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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krhine
"John "Lynrd" Leonardini" <gamb...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
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krhine
red and white wires.
"Eric Moesle" <eric....@att.net> wrote in message
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John "Lynrd" Leonardini
wrote:
>Uh oh.... I'm clueless.
>
OK, go find a multimeter, plug a cord into the cabinet, and measure
from the tip to the barel...hopefully, what you get is close to the
impedance that is printed near the jack....
If not, measure the speakers across the terminals, and tell the
impedance here, as well as the impedance the cabinet is reputed to
be....from that a wiring schematic can be recommended.
In a 4x speaker system, series-parallel wiring is used to make the
entire cabinet equal to the impedance of one of the speakers.
John "Lynrd" Leonardini
wrote:
>I figured black was (-), red was (+), and white was (-) when there were only
>red and white wires.
To check polarity of a speaker, touch a 9v battery momentarily to the
terminals of a speaker...If you get it right (+ to +, - to - ) the
speaker cone will jump forward. If you got it backwards, the cone
jumps backwards.
That's bad.
Andrew Cooke
If they all jump the wrong way you don't have a problem (do you?!).
(Wouldn't have bothered posting that normally, but it might avoid a lot
of work :-)
Andrew
John "Lynrd" Leonardini
<and...@andrewcooke.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>
>If they all jump the wrong way you don't have a problem (do you?!).
>
>(Wouldn't have bothered posting that normally, but it might avoid a lot
>of work :-)
>
>Andrew
IF they all jump the wrong away, you have wired the silly thing
backwards, and you do, indeed have a problem...
the idea is to push the air forward, not suck it into the cabinet...
Brian Running
reversed polarity. They cannot. It's no different than flipping a banana
plug over. Try it and see if you can hear the difference -- bet you can't.
"John "Lynrd" Leonardini" <gamb...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
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JByers1044
>reversed polarity. They cannot. It's no different than flipping a banana
>plug over. Try it and see if you can hear the difference -- bet you can't.
Brian...you mean if you flip both the poweramp and speaker banana plugs right?
Because I can hear the difference big time if the poweramp's positive
side is plugged into the speakers negative side... big loss of power! I'm a
little confused at what your saying.
Aloha, Jerry
Rob Kloka
or fixing DIY jobs, this was an easy find?
--
-rob
O>
/(\)
^^
"JByers1044" <jbyer...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Andrew Cooke
As far as I know, what Brian is saying is changing one side only, and
it's pretty much the standard line in audio design (although some
"audiophiles" disagree) (it's so standard I thought Lynrd was joking).
But maybe bass guitar is different in some respect, or there's something
about the practicalities that's not obvious. Some possible practical
causes are: changing your monitor but the PA remaining the same,
changing only one cab/speaker out of many, feedback between guitar and
speaker changing, active speakers, er, that's all I can think of.
As I said, this is just standard audio (hifi) amp lore - I wonder if
there's a difference when it comes to bass because of the mechanics?
For example (I still don't have a cab although I may be buying Linny's
if she's not got bored by now), how does speaker movement correlate with
string movement? If reversing the polarity is no different from
striking the string upwards first rather than downwards, then it's
difficult to see an explanation, but if the speaker moved "in" when the
string is central and "out" when at either side of the p/u (which would
double the frequency - is acoustic an octave lower than amplified?!)
then there might be some explanation to do with asymmetric response from
speakers in cabinets, for example.
The last para is just wild speculation - what I'm saying is that apart
from the possibility that you're hearing stuff that just isn't there (no
offence, but it's a sure as eggs is eggs that ears are not purely
objective) there might be some explanation that is consistent with what
Brian's saying - that, basically, the ear is insensitive pahse inversino
of sound waves (and of course, standard audio hifi knowledge might be
wrong ;-).
Andrew
PS One other possible explanation - maybe you can actually feel the
difference when playing because your brain compares ear with fingers.
It's pretty odd, but so is the brain...
Andrew Cooke
If you're installing a sub, or fixing something, you probably have more
than one speaker, so you'll get interference between out-of-phase
speakers. What Brian's saying (I guess, and if not, what I understand
to be commonly accepted) is that if you reverse *all* speakers, then you
won't hear anything.
A better way to think of it, perhaps, is to take the connection between
preamp and amp (assuming it's balanced, I guess, so you don't start
connecting signal to ground) and swapping +ve and -ve. The ear is
supposed to be (afaik, etc etc) insensitive to that change.
Honestly, I'm not making this up - from what I know, it's not too
unusual for designers of audio amps to ignore whether the final signal
is inverted or not.
Andrew
John "Lynrd" Leonardini
wrote:
>I agree Jerry. What are you saying Brian? While installing subs in cars,
>or fixing DIY jobs, this was an easy find?
I had understood that there was actually a potential of damaging a
driver if polarity is reversed because the voice coil cannot travel as
far...I got it from one of those wacky folks a Bartolini, who was
kinda "funny" about cabinets being wired correctly....
Brian E Running
you have only one cabinet, or one speaker, so the polarities of all drivers
are reversed at the same time (i.e., there won't be any phase differences
and phase cancellations) you won't hear a difference. I can't, anyway, and
a lot of studies I've seen say the same thing.
Doesn't matter which way the cone moves first, it's going to travel the same
distance in and out. You're not "pushing air out" with a speaker, you're
creating waves of positive and negative pressure. Some sounds actually
begin with a negative pressure, and there are phase differences all over
live music. If you're reproducing the sound accurately, the speaker cone
will move according to the waveform, it's not automatically "out" first.
It's easy to test on a home audio speaker. Put the balance all the way to
one side, so only one speaker is working, and reverse the wires, at one end
only. Now listen. Do it blindfolded while someone else changes the wires.
Can you really hear it?
This is the kind of thing that "audiophiles" debate endlessly. The snooty
guys who claim to have the "golden ears" say they can hear the difference
easily, double-blind testing seems to indicate they're full of it.
JByers1044 <jbyer...@aol.com> wrote in message
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John "Lynrd" Leonardini
/looks stubborn
I don't believe you.
/extends tounge
:oŞ
Brian E Running
John "Lynrd" Leonardini <gamb...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
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krhine
diagram of how the Hartke 4.5 should be wired?
"Brian E Running" <brun...@NOSPAMexecpc.com> wrote in message
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