Vox AC 30 info
luvlee
Some questions I have are
1. How does the sound differ from the Blue Alnicos compared to the Celestion
Greenbacks as I have only played through the Greenbacks.
2.As far as the run of models over the last ten to fifteen year, is there
any year to stay away from, as I am currently looking for a used Vox AC30
TIA
horse...@yahoo.com
ac30's but still are great sounding amps. The circuit boards were
designed by the same tech who designed the pcb's for Bedrock amps.
The speakers are very important to the tone of the amp. The Blue
Alnico's are almost identical copies of the original speakers used in
the JMI amps. They chime a lot better particularly if you are using a
guitar with Alnico magnets. The blues have a nicer clean tone and
breakup at less volume than the greenbacks.
Greenbacks are midranging speakers and are better suited for Marshalls
which are what they were originally designed for. They do there best
work distorted but since they handle more watts you may need some type
of distortion pedal to get the breakup you would with the blues. In
addition, when they do breakup the sound, though good will not be the
vox tone you are looking for.
Avoid any of the Vox reissues prior to the Korg's. The Rose Morris
era ones. You can quickly spot these by there use of solid state
rectifier and Fane speakers. These have terrible resell, do not have
the vox tone or any unique qualities. They have dreadful resell.
They are cosmetic copies of Vox amps.
If you want the real, "Beatle" era vox amps (1958-65) expect to pay,
but not that much more than the Korg reissues.
You can still find AC 30 heads for under a grand. AC30 combo's for
around two grand. JMI amps are point to point, handwired and sound
incredible-fragile amps though.
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:22:26 -0400, "luvlee" <luv...@attcanada.ca>
wrote:
THERDRAIL
i'm not sure i'd agree with that. You'd have to work hard to make that
circuit NOT sound like a VOX.
I've had old and new ac-30's, had original alnicos in a korg reissue as well.
I'd wager if you could make a time machine and bring a brand new korg ac-30
back in time to the 60's era it copies and stuck them side by side, 2 brand new
amps, even with reissue alnicos, it'd be real close. But we can really only
compare a 40 year old to a new one, and to me, they sound dramatically similar,
not "very different"
.
Now, will a korg age as well as an original JMI?
maybe not in ways that makes the JMI amps "special" today.
alex
> Avoid any of the Vox reissues prior to the Korg's. The Rose Morris
> era ones. You can quickly spot these by there use of solid state
> rectifier and Fane speakers. These have terrible resell, do not have
> the vox tone or any unique qualities. They have dreadful resell.
> They are cosmetic copies of Vox amps.
are these the only ones that had solid state rectifiers? i've got an
ac30 i'm trying to date that has a SS rect. and greenbacks. and
ideas? the badging looks kinda cheap but the amp sounds damn good.
alex
Blkojo
>I've had old and new ac-30's, had original alnicos in a korg reissue as
>well.I'd wager if you could make a time machine and bring a brand new korg
>ac-30back in time to the 60's era it copies and stuck them side by side, 2
>brand newamps, even with reissue alnicos, it'd be real close.
True, at a recent VOXFEST only a Don Butler-modded vintage AC30 beat out a
brand new, out-of-the-box AC30TBX in a listening test of several AC30s.
claudel
Yep
I was part of the audience that participated in the blind listening test
at VoxfestIII. Roughly 30 more or less knowlegeable folks picked a brand
new AC-30TBX for second place out of a bunch of contenders from various eras.
Claude
Ted B
news:20030718135744...@mb-m16.aol.com...
>
> True, at a recent VOXFEST only a Don Butler-modded vintage AC30 beat out a
> brand new, out-of-the-box AC30TBX in a listening test of several AC30s.
Actually, this is largely due to the speakers. The RI alnico blues sound
significantly tighter and crisper than the 40 year-old originals, not only
because they are new, but also because the voice coil is different. When
the speakers are the same, the JMI is actually a bit more lively sounding,
probably mostly due to the fact that it isn't heavily filtered like the
repros. I've done a lot of mixing and matching comparisons where this is
concerned.
Ted B
news:955da0c7.03071...@posting.google.com...
>
> are these the only ones that had solid state rectifiers? i've got an
> ac30 i'm trying to date that has a SS rect. and greenbacks. and
> ideas? the badging looks kinda cheap but the amp sounds damn good.
AC30s from '69 to '92 had ss rectifiers. If your amp has Greenbacks (and
they're original), it's likely a 'late 70s-'80s model. It can be
differentiated further from cosmetics and panel features.
claudel
Hi Ted
That's an interesting observation`.
Do ya think a set of new Blues would perk up
an old amp a bit? I've been considering retiring
the original speaks in my '64 AC30 while they are
still whole.
Claude
Ted B
news:bf9q3d$pmf$1...@bolt.sonic.net...
> That's an interesting observation`.
>
> Do ya think a set of new Blues would perk up
> an old amp a bit? I've been considering retiring
> the original speaks in my '64 AC30 while they are
> still whole.
I have a set of new blues in my circa '60 AC30/4 (EF86 model). They
definitely tighten up the sound and make things very 'crisp.
Also, I might add that since circa 2001 or so, Korg AC30s come equipped with
Ei tubes, which are *the tube* for these amps where getting that classic Vox
sound is concerned. AC30s are very tube sensitive, and to be quite frank, I
prefer the sound of the Ei tubes to Mullards in these amps.
claudel
I'm gonna have to give it a go. I'd come close
to slitting my wrist if I ever blew up the original
blues in my amp. I _do_ use a hotplate with it, mainly
to take it easy on the speakers. I'm also gonna, as
you previously mentioned in another forum, drop the
filtering down to 30Mfd and see what that does. I'm
a bit hesitant to mess with it cos it is already one
of the best sounding amps that it has been my privilege
to own...But hey :^)
Claude
Ted B
>
> I'm also gonna, as
> you previously mentioned in another forum, drop the
> filtering down to 30Mfd and see what that does.
If you have an old AC30, this should not be necessary unless the amp was
recapped with the incorrect values. The original value filtering is also
easier on the rectifier tube.
claudel
Hi Ted
At some point, you looked at my pix at
http://www.sonic.net/~claudel/Amps/AC30/
and clued me in that the filters were currently 50Mfd...
Claude
kp
On 17-Jul-2003, horse...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Avoid any of the Vox reissues prior to the Korg's. The Rose Morris
> era ones. You can quickly spot these by there use of solid state
> rectifier and Fane speakers. These have terrible resell, do not have
> the vox tone or any unique qualities. They have dreadful resell.
> They are cosmetic copies of Vox amps.
Had one. It was a very bland sounding amp. No character at all, let alone
Vox character. They weren't even good cosmetic copies. Look at that grille
cloth!!
~kp
JMI and Thomas Vox owner
horse...@yahoo.com
my JMI vox with the following results:
1.) Brimars-great sounding tubes, but more Marshall in character than
Vox. I like Brimars though on the all around as they still have a
decent "Vox" sound, a little Marshall flavor and are much more
affordable than Mullards. Brimars sound really good in my vintage
fender amps. The remind me of black plate RCAs. Brimars are very
rugged tubes.
2.) Mullards-the quinessential "Vox" sound. Not cheap. The best and
hard to find NOS anymore.
3.) Amperex bugle boys-along with Brimars, Mullards also came stock
in some JMI vox. I don't care for much. Too glassy. They sound
great though in hi-fi equipment and tube compressors.
4.) EI-were actually designed to be exact copies of Mullards. For
the money the way to go. I have a great deal of difficulty telling
them from Mullards clean or cranked. You need to watch the 12ax7
tubes though as 1 in 3 are microphonic. If you have a AC15 or AC10 EI
does not make an EF86.
horse...@yahoo.com
blowing. Very accurate after play-in. What the Vox alnicos sounded
like new. Tighter, crisper.
You may want to consider picking up some Weber Blue pups which are
very close to the Celestion reissue Alnico blues. I actually prefer
the Webers.
I also had some one named Regnar out of NY do some Vox speakers for me
that I was very pleased with. He had done speaker for both zep/kiss
horse...@yahoo.com
Jim Anable
> 4.) EI-were actually designed to be exact copies of Mullards.
I thought Ei Yugo was trying to copy telefunken.
Jim Anable
> "Blkojo" <blk...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20030718135744...@mb-m16.aol.com...
> >
> > True, at a recent VOXFEST only a Don Butler-modded vintage AC30 beat out a
> > brand new, out-of-the-box AC30TBX in a listening test of several AC30s.
>
> Actually, this is largely due to the speakers. The RI alnico blues sound
> significantly tighter and crisper than the 40 year-old originals, not only
> because they are new, but also because the voice coil is different.
Isn't it also true that alnico magnets gradually lose their magnetic properties,
so that old speakers do not have the flux that they once had?
kp
On 19-Jul-2003, Jim Anable <j...@seattle-attorney.com> wrote:
> > 4.) EI-were actually designed to be exact copies of Mullards.
>
> I thought Ei Yugo was trying to copy telefunken.
Are they still being made? I thought I'd heard that the factory was bombed
to destruction during the war, no?
~kp
Ted B
news:gKGcnYbqae5...@giganews.com...
The Ei tubes are made using Philips' old equipment.
Because the the limited climate control ability in the facility where they
are made, production is suspended when the ambient temperature drops below a
certain point (in the colder months).
Ted B
news:3F19F8EF...@seattle-attorney.com...
>
> Isn't it also true that alnico magnets gradually lose their magnetic
properties,
> so that old speakers do not have the flux that they once had?
Alnico magnets ordinarily outlast ferrite (ceramic) magnets by a 1000 years
or so. In the case of speakers, the alnico magnets are apparently more
susceptible to the constant AC flux from the signal, and tend to weaken a
bit over the years.
to reply>000lee.waller@blueyonder.co.uk lee blueyonder
by the JMI anorak attackers, Don is a god in the AC30 world i bet he
breathed a sigh of releif when his baby came up with the winning ticket,
they kept this a tight secret on the http://www.voxshowroom.com/
website, Well well, the korg reissue blew away all the old JMI boys, thats
made my day!!
anybody know when this happened???
Lee aka lynard
"claudel" <cla...@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:bf9cug$sgk$1...@bolt.sonic.net...
claudel
" JMI anorak attackers " ?
VoxfestIII
Riverside, Cali.
2 summers ago.
Check google and/or Voxtalks archives for details.
Claude
A: Yes - it makes it hard to follow threads
Q: Is top-posting a bad idea?
lee blueyonder
> " JMI anorak attackers " ?
There is definatly an air of 'Vox 60's snobbery' around today, if it isnt a
60's JMI Vox with the copper top and the top boost then its not worth a
mention, In the UK we use the term 'anorak' to discribe ultra hobby
fanatics, be they Guitarists, train spotters, ham radio operators or Vox Amp
users.
>
> VoxfestIII
> Riverside, Cali.
> 2 summers ago.
does this mean that there was a Voxfest IV ? and maybe a VoxfestV ?
> A: Yes - it makes it hard to follow threads
>
> Q: Is top-posting a bad idea?
Noted.
Lee aka lynard
kp
On 21-Jul-2003, "lee blueyonder" <lee.w...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> There is definatly an air of 'Vox 60's snobbery' around today, if it isnt
> a
> 60's JMI Vox with the copper top and the top boost then its not worth a
> mention,
Vintage collectors seem to be that way in general and as a rule. But it's
an inexapable fact that most of the JMI amps were a good product while most
of the Korg stuff seems to be a load of rubbish by comparison. Sad but
true. I wouldn't even begin to try to compare a recent Cambridge, Pacemaker
or Pathfinder with a Thomas Organ Cambridge original. As for the Korg
AC30s, they may sound fine - hopefully better than the Rose Morris POS I
owned - but the construction seems to be really cheap (at least the
cabinetry and such). You certainly didn't see new JMI amps with the tolex
peeling off in the store.
~kp
claudel
lee blueyonder <lee.w...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> " JMI anorak attackers " ?
>There is definatly an air of 'Vox 60's snobbery' around today, if it isnt a
>60's JMI Vox with the copper top and the top boost then its not worth a
>mention, In the UK we use the term 'anorak' to discribe ultra hobby
>fanatics, be they Guitarists, train spotters, ham radio operators or Vox Amp
>users.
Thanks. English can sometimes be a foreign language for us Yanks.
I have an old coppertop integral topboost that was the model for the reissue,
but I don't personally feel too snobbish about it. I just got an early start
on my gear collection and have been fortunate enough to hang on to some of
the better instuments that I've had pass thru my hands over the years.
If I had the time/inclination to play out much I wouldn't hesitate a second
to gig with one of the reissues. I probably would prefer it 'cause my '64
definately doesn't need a beer bath :^)
>>
>> VoxfestIII
>> Riverside, Cali.
>> 2 summers ago.
>
>does this mean that there was a Voxfest IV ? and maybe a VoxfestV ?
Yep
a I and a II even.
http://www.geocities.com/voxfest/
Claude
lee blueyonder
> Vintage collectors seem to be that way in general and as a rule. But it's
> an inexapable fact that most of the JMI amps were a good product while
most
> of the Korg stuff seems to be a load of rubbish by comparison. Sad but
> true. I wouldn't even begin to try to compare a recent Cambridge,
Pacemaker
> or Pathfinder with a Thomas Organ Cambridge original.
I think all the above are 'Korg' Products but what Korg did with the reissue
AC30 was at least an honest try at getting it back to original spec, ok its
not hand wired but look at the cost of the new 'HW' model, rediculous amount
of money, I spoke to an amp tech the other day and his view was circuit
boards and valves should never mix, the thing gets too hot and causes
reliability problems, but what about the reliability of owning a 40 year old
amp?
saying all that, i must admit when we gig i always take a 2nd amp along (SS)
you know...
just in case...
> AC30s, they may sound fine - hopefully better than the Rose Morris POS I
> owned - but the construction seems to be really cheap (at least the
> cabinetry and such). You certainly didn't see new JMI amps with the tolex
> peeling off in the store.
Very true, mine looks like a hand grenade has gone off in very close
vacinity, im always sticking bits of the tolex back, they all have their
pro's and cons, nice to see an objective veiw on the Vox's.
I still cant get over Voxfest III, i'd loved to have seen their faces when
the blindfolds came off.
haha.
Lee aka lynard
claudel
Sorry to disappoint. No Blindfolds :^)
Amps behind a curtain...
Claude
lee blueyonder
>
> Amps behind a curtain...
Doh!!
you just took the dairy off the cake! who said 'ignorance is bliss' ? some
things are best left to the imagination, and mine was running away with me.
Still, thanks for the best bit of info ive seen on here, do you have any
more jems?
Lee aka lynard
claudel
Tons. Or should thet be "Tonnes" :^)
Claude
kp
On 21-Jul-2003, "lee blueyonder" <lee.w...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > I wouldn't even begin to try to compare a recent Cambridge,
> > Pacemaker
> > or Pathfinder with a Thomas Organ Cambridge original.
>
> I think all the above are 'Korg' Products
Thomas made both tube and solid state versions of these in the 60's. I'd
even rather have the 60's solid state vesrions than the Korg versions,
which really aren't even the same amps. And it you want to talk about the
60's tube versions, forget it. There's nothing "Vox" about Korg, other than
their attenpt at reissuing the AC30 and AC15. I'll admit, I did buy a
reissue Vox Python strap for $120.00. It's as good as the original.
~kp
horse...@yahoo.com
gray panel Vox AC30.
I have played through both the Korg reissue AC15 and AC30 and though
neither really sounds like any JMI vox I have played they are good
sounding amps. They sound a lot like Bedrock amps which is no
coincidence as the same guy designed the pcb for the Korg amps.
I have heard the mod Don Butler does replacing the transformers with
Mercury transformers and other parts does wonders for the Korg's and
gets them very close in sound. That and re-tubing with some NOS
tubes.
The Thomas Organ stuff is and was dreadful. Yes, some were tube
models but a whole different circuit than the JMI british made ones.
Cosmetically they were inferior as well.
kp
On 22-Jul-2003, horse...@yahoo.com wrote:
> The Thomas Organ stuff is and was dreadful. Yes, some were tube
> models but a whole different circuit than the JMI british made ones.
> Cosmetically they were inferior as well.
Matter of opinion and the model in question. I've got a '65 Berkeley Super
Reverb, tube version (2xEL84's), which is a very nice amp. Most folks who
know that amp, as well as it's combo counterpoint, the Cambridge Reverb,
will tell you these are killer little amps. I wouldn't trade it for a Korg
reissue *anything*, let alone any of the other Korean models they offer now.
I had a Rose Morris reissue AC-30, and it was scrap next to the Berkeley.
But everyone knows about those. I launched it in short order. At least the
Thomas stuff had a unique sound, versus that bland POS.
Any Jennings amps I've ever owned have been AC-50s. These are nice amps,
except for the fact that they're too loud for a lot of places. And the 18
watt Berkeley has reverb. So guess which one gets used the most? (Hint:
It's not the AC-50)
As for the circuits being different, of course they were. However, the
Berkeley/Cambridge Reverb circuit was - at least in part - a Dick Denny
design. At that time, in the beginning, Dick was working closely with
Thomas' R&D team to help them get a line up and running. That makes it
pretty "legit" in my book.
~kp
horse...@yahoo.com
with 64' Gray Panel JMI AC30.
Reminds me of the Bill Cosby routine where he ordered duck by mistake.
It's not really fair to drag AC50s into the thread though as they are
class A/B amps not class A. AC50s are respectable enough but on the
whole prefer Selmer T/B. The Beatles used both but I don't have there
budget.
Regardless of anything else I think everyone is pretty much in
agreement though Rose Morris AC30s were complete shit
lee blueyonder
panel JMI ?
Maybe you should enlist on to the judges board of VOXFEST V.
Stand in front of the curtain while the amps are playing behind and try to
pick out the 'pretenders', maybe it was too thick a curtain and it muffled
the tone of the 'true' vox's?
I suppose if the Beatles played a Selmer treble and bass then it must have
been a fantastic amp (not), everybody has there own perception of great
tone, it might come out of a Line 6 spider 212, or an original JMI grey
panel with brass screws and 4mm rubber feet (as opposed to the 3mm rubber
feet).
Lee aka lynard
<horse...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f1f5111...@news.dynasty.net...
kp
On 24-Jul-2003, "lee blueyonder" <lee.w...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> So you guys could without doubt pick out a Korg re-issue AC30 against a
> grey
> panel JMI ?
> Maybe you should enlist on to the judges board of VOXFEST V.
> Stand in front of the curtain while the amps are playing behind and try to
> pick out the 'pretenders', maybe it was too thick a curtain and it muffled
> the tone of the 'true' vox's?
Sounds like a load of crap to me. And even if they did sound similar, I
still wouldn't buy a Korg "Vox". Nevermind the Asian components, the fact
that the tolex is already coming off 'em before they even leave the stores
is enough to make me "just say no."
> I suppose if the Beatles played a Selmer treble and bass then it must have
> been a fantastic amp (not),
More likely, it was slightly more affordable in the days when they were
stilly living off of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Remember the Gerry
and The Pacemakers album with the live band shot in the Cavern? Selmer
amps.
> everybody has there own perception of great
> tone, it might come out of a Line 6 spider 212, or an original JMI grey
> panel with brass screws and 4mm rubber feet (as opposed to the 3mm rubber
> feet).
Yep. You said a mouthful.
~kp
kp
On 23-Jul-2003, horse...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Fair enough, you go gig with your Thomas Organ Vox
Fair enough. Seems to me you don't know very much about the Berkeley and
Cambridge Reverb amps. Whatever. No skin off my teeth.
> and I will go gig
> with 64' Gray Panel JMI AC30.
Didn't the gray panels come out in '65?
> It's not really fair to drag AC50s into the thread
Why not?
> though as they are
> class A/B amps not class A.
You know, I really don't care if it's an A/Z amp. The Beatles didn't care
either.
> AC50s are respectable enough
LOL! Yeah, *I'd* say so! Still the best kept secret and the biggest bang
for the buck in the vintage amp world. Give 'em a few more years and see
what they go for.
> but on the
> whole prefer Selmer T/B. The Beatles used both but I don't have there
> budget.
The Beatles might have used (borrowed) Selmers in the days when they were
broke, I don't know. But they didn't use them when they had AC30s, and they
didn't use AC30s when they had AC50s.
> Regardless of anything else I think everyone is pretty much in
> agreement though Rose Morris AC30s were complete shit
Oh yeah, we hear all about it now, don't we? But at the time, people were
buzzing all about "the new AC30 reissues", AC30s are being made again, bla
bla bla. . Just like they do now. I fell for the hype once. It won't
happen again. I'll say it again, I'd still rather have my '65 Berkeley than
a new Korean so-called "Vox" anything. These cat's don't even know how to
make their tolex stick, let alone their bullshit. I'm seeing this crap in
the stores and I can't believe my eyes! It'd be one thing if it was priced
like a Hot Rod Deluxe or something. MAYBE. But it sure ain't worth what
their asking, on a *good* day!
~kp
lee waller
it creates tone, you either like it or you dont, if you like it you pay your
money. Who listens to hype? i listen to my ears, look at all the hype around
the line6 pod, are they really that great? how about the Variaxe? ive heard
loads of good stuff but i wouldnt buy one without giving it a good try out.
Are we saying nobody but US and the UK can make amps? then how do you
account for the new -reissue (korg with flappy ripped up tolex) straight out
of a box coming 2nd in the VOXFEST trials 2 years ago? must be all those
crappy old korean components rattling around inside creating a bit extra on
the tone front, that re-issuse came 2nd, and beat all those 60's JMI's.
Tolex problem? tube of glue £1, sorted.
Lee aka lynard
"kp" <no...@all.com> wrote in message
news:R-WcnULKrta...@giganews.com...
horse...@yahoo.com
>
>Fair enough. Seems to me you don't know very much about the Berkeley and
>Cambridge Reverb amps. Whatever. No skin off my teeth.
Why research the Dodge Neon when you have a Porsche in the driveway?
LOL Popular census and vintage pricing does not dictate this is a
highly desired amp.
>Didn't the gray panels come out in '65?
I believe they came out between 64' -66' You can check the Vox
showroom page for exact dates.
>
>Why not?
The original thread is about Vox AC30 info and which model
year/manufac. to avoid. AC 50 is a class A/B amp and is a entirely
different type amplifier than an AC30. In fact, your Thomas Organ amp
does not really have a great deal to do with the thread either but you
compulsively feel the need to defend it even though no one really
gives a shit about what you are talking about except yourself.
>You know, I really don't care if it's an A/Z amp. The Beatles didn't care
>either.
The Beatles never played any amp exclusively in the studio. On the
first album John used a tweed deluxe, George a Gibson GA-40 and Paul
plugged into the bass amp in the studio. They did not get the AC30s
till "With the Beatles." They never used the amps on tour. AC50's
and later Fender Dual Showmans. Go check your Beatle books.
>LOL! Yeah, *I'd* say so! Still the best kept secret and the biggest bang
>for the buck in the vintage amp world. Give 'em a few more years and see
>what they go for.
Well, only 40 years have passed. LOL AC50s are great amps and very
collectible because of there use by the Beatles and Stones and tour.
But, as 50 watt, class A/B amps and solid state rectifiers they do not
sound quite as sweet as the AC15/AC30s. The Vox JMI class A amps
enjoy their greatest popularity as some of the most recorded amps in
rock music history. AC50 is more a touring amp rather than studio.
>The Beatles might have used (borrowed) Selmers in the days when they were
>broke, I don't know. But they didn't use them when they had AC30s, and they
>didn't use AC30s when they had AC50s.
The Beatles did "borrow" or use Selmers when the were "broke" and just
starting out. The Selmer T/B heads were used during the Sgt.
Pepper/Magical Mystery tour period along with Vox Conquerer solid
state amps. Again, go check your Beatle books and web sites.
>Oh yeah, we hear all about it now, don't we? But at the time, people were
>buzzing all about "the new AC30 reissues", AC30s are being made again, bla
>bla bla. . Just like they do now. I fell for the hype once. It won't
>happen again. I'll say it again, I'd still rather have my '65 Berkeley than
>a new Korean so-called "Vox" anything.
No one was "fooled" by the Rose Morris amps and they were hard to sell
when they came out. The Vox Korg reissues are made in England.
These cat's don't even know how to
>make their tolex stick, let alone their bullshit. I'm seeing this crap in
>the stores and I can't believe my eyes! It'd be one thing if it was priced
>like a Hot Rod Deluxe or something. MAYBE. But it sure ain't worth what
>their asking, on a *good* day.
Most Vintage Techs will not even consider working on the Thomas Organ
Vox amps because they are not worth repairing. If you like it go play
it. I'd rather own a Korg reissue Vox than a Thomas Organ model
tube/solid state. The Korg would have better resell.
>
>~kp
kp
On 26-Jul-2003, "lee waller" <removethisj...@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:
> An amp is just that, an amp, you plug your guitar in, you play through it,
> it creates tone, you either like it or you dont, if you like it you pay
> your
> money.
Yep
> Who listens to hype?
Plenty of people. Otherwise, 75% of the amps out there would remain unsold.
> i listen to my ears, look at all the hype
> around
> the line6 pod, are they really that great?
I wouldn't want one, personally.
> how about the Variaxe?
Never heard of it. Must not be hyped enough.
> ive
> heard
> loads of good stuff but i wouldnt buy one without giving it a good try
> out.
That's good.
> Are we saying nobody but US and the UK can make amps?
Not at all. We're saying the new Voxes are scrap, as far as I'm concerned.
Particularly the cheaper models which bear the names of some decent little
amps in the past. The recent Cambridge? Pacemaker? Pathfinder? C'mon
fella, let's be serious. The originals were damned decent. This latest
load of shit is just that, no more and no less.
> then how do you
> account for the new -reissue (korg with flappy ripped up tolex) straight
> out
> of a box coming 2nd in the VOXFEST trials 2 years ago?
I think somebody's ears are as ripped as the tolex and they're so hypnotized
and seduced by the cool Vox logo and grille cloth that they can't hear or
think straight. That could account for it. I think it's bullshit,
personally.
> must be all those
> crappy old korean components rattling around inside creating a bit extra
> on
> the tone front, that re-issuse came 2nd, and beat all those 60's JMI's.
If you say so!
> Tolex problem? tube of glue £1, sorted.
Have at it, friend. I'll pass, myself. I hate ratty tatty gear. And if
they can't even get the covering to stick, I have no faith in what's inside.
You like the sound? You buy it. You trust it to last? It's your cash,
spend it, by all means. (What'd you say a new "AC30" costs these days?)
~kp
Ted B
The Beatles used the largest amps Vox had available as they became
available, and with minor exception, they used the same amps both live and
in the studio.
The Beatles used AC30s, followed by AC50s, then AC100s, and so forth.
Gray panel amps emerged circa late '64. AC50s were switched from tube to ss
rectification circa '65.
The JMI AC15 and Korg AC15 are two entirely different amps. The JMI AC15 is
far more interesting and has a high gain EF86 preamp.
Geetar Dave
My second RI ac15 has a blue Alnico speaker.
Both amps sound GREAT. The difference in speakers was pretty subtle I
thought.
I sold the one with the Celestion to a friend, and kept the blue
Alnico; almost solely on the assumption that it was worth more. I had
no strong preference from one amp to the other. My reason for selling
was that I didn't want 2 nearly-identical sounding amps, AND I needed
the cash for an ac30.
Personally, I don't think the difference between the Celestion
greenbacks and the blue Alnicos is so extreme that ANYONE will hear it
from a stage, miked with a '57 (or whatever); OR buried in the middle
of a compressed studio mix.
That's just one amp-owner's opinion though.
Also, the ac30TB circuit driving a pair of speakers might make the
differences more noticeable. Also I think the RI ac15's might be
mellower than the ac30's.
Peace & music,
-dave
"luvlee" <luv...@attcanada.ca> wrote in message news:<Vg4Qa.1723$Gf3....@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>...
> Some questions I have are
>
> 1. How does the sound differ from the Blue Alnicos compared to the Celestion
> Greenbacks as I have only played through the Greenbacks.
>
> 2.As far as the run of models over the last ten to fifteen year, is there
> any year to stay away from, as I am currently looking for a used Vox AC30
>
> TIA
Ted B
news:946e9052.03072...@posting.google.com...
>
> Also, the ac30TB circuit driving a pair of speakers might make the
> differences more noticeable. Also I think the RI ac15's might be
> mellower than the ac30's.
In the AC30, the difference between the greenback and the alnico blue is
like night and day. The alnico blue gives the classic AC30 sound, the
greenback doesn't. Actually, the greenback is a lackluster choice for free
air applications (open back cabs). This becomes more apparent as the volume
is turned up. The greenback is offered as an economy option for the AC30.
In actuality, the current G12 H30 is a much better 'economy' choice, and
holds its highs and lows tight well after the standard greenback has turned
to mush. That extra 15oz of magnet makes a large difference in an otherwise
identical speaker.
kp
On 27-Jul-2003, e...@one.net (Geetar Dave) wrote:
> Personally, I don't think the difference between the Celestion
> greenbacks and the blue Alnicos is so extreme that ANYONE will hear it
> from a stage, miked with a '57 (or whatever); OR buried in the middle
> of a compressed studio mix.
I've never had the two side by side at the same time to compare. But, having
owned both, I know what part of the sound you're talking about that's
similar. Both are a bit honky, woody, nasal and mid rangey. They're
definitely there with the "Vox sound". I think the greenbacks are a better
match to a Vox than they are a Marshall. For Marshalls, I like the V30s
much more.
~kp
kp
On 27-Jul-2003, "Ted B" <tabr...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Just some Vox facts in no particular order...
>
> The Beatles used the largest amps Vox had available as they became
> available, and with minor exception, they used the same amps both live and
> in the studio.
Right.
> The Beatles used AC30s, followed by AC50s, then AC100s, and so forth.
Right.
> Gray panel amps emerged circa late '64.
Ok, cool. I thought it coincided with the SS power supply. Close, but I
stand corrected.
> AC50s were switched from tube to
> ss
> rectification circa '65.
And what was the *reason* that Vox and Marshall decided to go with SS power
supplies?
> The JMI AC15 and Korg AC15 are two entirely different amps.
No surprise there. It would seem that the AC30 is the only Korg Vox that's
even close to the same design as the original. (They DO offer a bitchin'
Python strap though!)
>The JMI AC15
> is
> far more interesting and has a high gain EF86 preamp.
You say "high gain". Do you mean something that would compete with modern
amps in the "gain" department?
Thanks for the facts.
~kp
kp
foggy..
~kp
Catalina Thunders
kp wrote:
> On 27-Jul-2003, "Ted B" <tabr...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Just some Vox facts in no particular order...
>>
>>The Beatles used the largest amps Vox had available as they became
>>available, and with minor exception, they used the same amps both live and
>>in the studio.
>
>
> Right.
>
>
>>The Beatles used AC30s, followed by AC50s, then AC100s, and so forth.
>
>
> Right.
>
>
>>Gray panel amps emerged circa late '64.
>
>
> Ok, cool. I thought it coincided with the SS power supply. Close, but I
> stand corrected.
>
>
>>AC50s were switched from tube to
>>ss
>>rectification circa '65.
>
>
> And what was the *reason* that Vox and Marshall decided to go with SS power
> supplies?
>
>
The reason many amp builders switched to SS rectos
in those days was that most people still were
trying to avoid amp distortion. Only a few people
were using distortion deliberately in the mid-60s,
most manufacturers were still bragging about amps
being "distortion free". SS rectifier circuits
helped their watts rms before distortion specs.
>>The JMI AC15 and Korg AC15 are two entirely different amps.
>
>
> No surprise there. It would seem that the AC30 is the only Korg Vox that's
> even close to the same design as the original. (They DO offer a bitchin'
> Python strap though!)
>
>
>>The JMI AC15
>>is
>>far more interesting and has a high gain EF86 preamp.
>
>
> You say "high gain". Do you mean something that would compete with modern
> amps in the "gain" department?
>
No, he means high gain per gainstage, the EF86
being a pentode with much more gain than the
12ax7/7025 & similar (twin) triodes. Originally
the EF86 preamp design was used in the AC30, as
well. The AC30 was conceived as a high power
version of the AC15, which came first. The "top
boost" circuit was added to the AC30 after they
switched from the EF86 preamp because they lost
that "sparkle" that made the original so popular.
The high gain you're talking about is that modern
sound you get from multple gain stages. Radical
difference in sound.
kp
On 27-Jul-2003, Catalina Thunders <thunde...@diespambotsbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> The reason many amp builders switched to SS rectos
> in those days was that most people still were
> trying to avoid amp distortion. Only a few people
> were using distortion deliberately in the mid-60s,
> most manufacturers were still bragging about amps
> being "distortion free". SS rectifier circuits
> helped their watts rms before distortion specs.
I see. Well, I don't know if you know it, but the AC50 is capable of better
distortion than some amps which are supposedly known for their distortion.
I say "supposedly, because the amp that first comes to mind is all the
Marshall Super Leads I've owned which were clean as a whistle. Just swap
out that first 12AU7 preamp tube with a 12AX7, and you've got a mean lead
amp. When it comes to what most people think a Marshall is supposed to do,
the AC50 does it very well. It's like talking about like a real grindy
early Billy Gibbons Marshall tone with the *addition* of the Vox tonalities
. .
I used to use my last AC50 with an open back 2x12 Vox cab (looked like an
AC30 from the front). This had the silver Vox speakers. (Same as the blues
but silver (?) I think). The one I picked up recently, when it comes back
from it's first checkup since 1965, will probably be used with a Marshall
1960AX 4x12 with "Greenbacks". Maybe one day I'll be able to afford an
AC100 or Super Beatle cab with four blues for that amp. That'd be a nice
rig! All told, I doubt it'd cost much more than a new Korg AC30.
~kp
Catalina Thunders
kp wrote:
> On 27-Jul-2003, Catalina Thunders <thunde...@diespambotsbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>The reason many amp builders switched to SS rectos
>>in those days was that most people still were
>>trying to avoid amp distortion. Only a few people
>>were using distortion deliberately in the mid-60s,
>>most manufacturers were still bragging about amps
>> being "distortion free". SS rectifier circuits
>>helped their watts rms before distortion specs.
>
>
> I see. Well, I don't know if you know it, but the AC50 is capable of better
> distortion than some amps which are supposedly known for their distortion.
> I say "supposedly, because the amp that first comes to mind is all the
> Marshall Super Leads I've owned which were clean as a whistle. Just swap
> out that first 12AU7 preamp tube with a 12AX7, and you've got a mean lead
> amp. When it comes to what most people think a Marshall is supposed to do,
> the AC50 does it very well. It's like talking about like a real grindy
> early Billy Gibbons Marshall tone with the *addition* of the Vox tonalities
> . .
>
Yes, but like many amps, the designers of the AC50
did not intend users to crank them to the point of
distortion. The tweed bassman is another example
of a "happy accident".
The Marshall circuit you're referring to came
later of course, right about the time a lot of
players began to feel that amp distortion was
preferrable to fuzz for most applications.
> I used to use my last AC50 with an open back 2x12 Vox cab (looked like an
> AC30 from the front). This had the silver Vox speakers. (Same as the blues
> but silver (?) I think). The one I picked up recently, when it comes back
> from it's first checkup since 1965, will probably be used with a Marshall
> 1960AX 4x12 with "Greenbacks". Maybe one day I'll be able to afford an
> AC100 or Super Beatle cab with four blues for that amp. That'd be a nice
> rig! All told, I doubt it'd cost much more than a new Korg AC30.
>
> ~kp
Perhaps, but you're comparing apples to oranges.
The AC50 circuit is completely different from the
AC30. The sound is totally different.
Not better or worse mind you, just different.
As always, tone is in the ear of the beholder!
Those of us who are passionate about our tones are
often quite opnionated, but we must keep it in
perspective -- it's just an opinion.
I happen to love the colors black, red & purple.
I'm not going to try to convince you to wear those
colors, or get into an argument with you because
you prefer white, green & yellow. If we all had
the same taste, music (& everything else) would
get really boring fast.
Personally, I always like to see people using
unusual gear. It often expands the tonal palette,
& I like to see people blaze their own trail just
on principle.
:)
Ther's no need to engage with those who would put
down your Vox 'cause it's not the "fashionable"
model. You like it, that's all that matters.
Just for the record, I think the AC50 sounds more
musical than a Marshall Super Lead. If Jimi'd used
'em, they'd be the cat's ass today & you might not
have been able to get one.
Cheers,
Cat
horse...@yahoo.com
>Really? Point me to one that's for sale, please. If you can find one.
Obviously, if you are not interested in reality. If you seem to own
something you think it's the "best" only because you put your own
fragile ego before the truth.
>I don't play any amp exclusively in the studio either. I play live.
Tascam porta-studio? Live in your bedroom torturing your family?
When
>the Beatles moved up to AC50's for live work, the AC30s were left behind.
The Beatles recorded with a variety amps over the years including:
1.) Vox JMI AC30
2.) Vox JMI AC50
3.) Vox Conquerer
4.) Selmer Treble and Bass.
5.) Fender Blackface Dual Showman
6.) Fender Silverface Deluxe reverb.
>
>> On the
>> first album John used a tweed deluxe, George a Gibson GA-40 and Paul
>> plugged into the bass amp in the studio.
>Tour, schmour. I've seen plenty of pictures of The Beatles playing live
>with AC30s. Who am I talking to here??? Son, were you even *around* 20
>years after the fact?? I've got a feeling I'm trying to discuss this with
>someone who *might* have been born in the '80's.
By age is irrelevant. Your facts are just wrong. You have some sort
of inferiority complex regarding your age. If you feel threatened by
people that are younger than you it has nothing to do with me or my
post. You need to stick to the facts and be less on the defensive.
>Yeah, yeah, yeah
Glad you agree. LOL
>Yep. Two bands who could have afforded any gear they wanted at the time.
>They chose Vox AC50s. My, what a coincidence!
The Beatles and Stones played Vox on tour because they received free
amps as part of an endorsement deal. This is the only reason. As
soon as they arrived state side both groups began buying up Fender
amps.
>
>> But, as 50 watt, class A/B amps and solid state rectifiers they do not
>> sound quite as sweet as the AC15/AC30s.
>
>Bullshit. You're gonna tell me an AC15 sounds better than an AC50?
Vox JMI AC15 and AC30 have been featured on countless recordings and
are considered the most desirable amps on the collectors markets.
AC50 is a a good amp-not a great amp. The amp itself has a darker
tone because of the EL34 tubes and A/B class circuit. It does not
overdrive as nicely as the Class A combo amps because of this and SS
rectifier. The AC50 is more in the category of both Marshall heads.
The marshalls just do a much better job for arenas.
>Okayyyyyyyyy.
>
>As for solid state rectifiers, I think they sound tighter and better than
>the tube rectifier models in many cases. Mind you, if they didn't, amp
>companies such as Vox and Marshall would have continued with the tube
>rectifiers after 1965 or so. Dig, dude, I could easily have my AC50
>reworked to be have a tube rectifier. Truth be told, it would cost me money
>for something I probably wouldn't like as much. I think you've been reading
>too many Internet myths.
Tube rectifiers are unsutable for larger amps. The tube model was
very unstable. Which is why Vox discontinued it.
>Naw, you check your Beatle books. I did my time in the "Beatle-era",
>thanks, and then some. I've been through the various "Beatle" amps, the
>various *"vintage"* Marshalls, Fenders, you name it, and I'm very settled in
>on what I like and what makes me happy after close to 40 years of playing.
>Everybody on the net is a fucking "expert", y'know? Then you find out
>they're 15 years old, and/or can't play their way out of a paper bag, or are
>generally talking out of their ass, parroting some bullshit that some other
>moron posted on the Internet. You check your Beatle books. I'm happy with
>my amps, and so are a lot of other people. You got a bottom line better
>than that? You think Korg makes a Vox amp? Fine. You like Korg amps, by
>all means, buy a Korg amp. I wouldn't have it off a Christmas tree, myself,
>but you sound like you must be another "expert".
You are not someone who has any interest in the truth. You probably
have to rely on your "recollections" because you lack the scholarship
to research any of the facts or the intelligence to read a book.
horse...@yahoo.com
I compared a AC10 twin (2x10) EF86 in preamp like AC15 with Korg AC15
reissue blue and greenbacks unmodified. You cannot beat the greenback
amp for the money but the reissue blue one came much closer to a
vintage vox. Don Butler had top boosted the AC10 I used for the test
and in a lot of ways the amp sounds like a mini-AC30.
I compared a gray panel, non-top boost JMI AC30 with Korg AC30 blue
and found it to be a bit brighter and less "brown" than the JMI. But,
the overall tone of the Korg AC30 was consistently good regardless of
what guitar I plugged into it. I really liked Teles and p-90 gibsons
with the Korg reissues.
I don't feel they "nail" the JMI Vox. But, having played quite a few
of the vintage Vox a third sound pretty crappy, one third sound like
they should and one third phenomenal. All the Korg reissue amps with
the blues after a substantial play-in period sound pretty good even
without mods.
I do feel the speaker is one of the most important aspects of the amps
sound
horse...@yahoo.com
plexi is a selmer will give you the best of both and has the tube
rectifier.
Mid-60's Selmer T/B is sounds very much like you crossed AC50 with a
Marshall and gives you a bit of a sag in the distortion because of the
tube rectifier.
I use a old Bedrock cabinet loaded with Weber Blue pups with the amp.
jh
kp schrieb:
-SNIP-
When it comes to what most people think a Marshall is supposed to do,
> the AC50 does it very well. It's like talking about like a real grindy
> early Billy Gibbons Marshall tone with the *addition* of the Vox tonalities
> . .
>
SNIP
Hi Kent,
are you really sure, that Billy used a Marshall in the early days?
I thought that too, until i had a strange experience 2 years ago.
I had bought a Victoria Tweed Deluxe clone and tried it in my practice
room;
plugged in my LesPaul;
used my Marshall Cab ( 16 Ohms; Greenbacks)
cranked it up => Bingo
This combination sounded so much closer to the early albums than i ever
came using my Marshalls....
I have an "Amp Edition" of GP where BG sits on a Tweed Deluxe saying "He
owned it for eons and used it very often"
Perhaps you have some first hand info; IIRC you´ve been in that area at
that time...
regards
Jochen
kp
On 27-Jul-2003, horse...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >Tour, schmour. I've seen plenty of pictures of The Beatles playing live
> >with AC30s. Who am I talking to here??? Son, were you even *around* 20
> >years after the fact?? I've got a feeling I'm trying to discuss this
> >with
> >someone who *might* have been born in the '80's.
>
> By age is irrelevant.
Yeah, as I was saying. . . . I used to know everything once too. Have
fun, kid.
<snipped the rest, over and out, done with this one>
~kp
kp
On 28-Jul-2003, jh <jh-audio...@t-online.de> wrote:
> Hi Kent,
> are you really sure, that Billy used a Marshall in the early days?
I'll be honest, I don't know all the amps he used, or what he used to get
his recorded sounds. I do know that I saw ZZ Top in 1975-6, and they were
using Marshalls with a LaGrange badge - at least that's what they looked
like, and I've been told later that that's what they were. I've also been
told that
>
> I thought that too, until i had a strange experience 2 years ago.
> I had bought a Victoria Tweed Deluxe clone and tried it in my practice
> room;
>
> plugged in my LesPaul;
> used my Marshall Cab ( 16 Ohms; Greenbacks)
> cranked it up => Bingo
>
> This combination sounded so much closer to the early albums than i ever
> came using my Marshalls....
>
My Marshalls never got that close to the sound either, which is one reason
I've long suspected he had a trick up his sleeve, such as another small amp
behind the stacks, either miced on it's own or running into the Marshalls.
> I have an "Amp Edition" of GP where BG sits on a Tweed Deluxe saying "He
> owned it for eons and used it very often"
Yeah, I believe it.
>
> Perhaps you have some first hand info; IIRC you´ve been in that area at
> that time...
Wish I had more info. At one time I'd have almost killed to learn his
secret(s). It's not so urgent anymore, because by now I've got a few tricks
of my own! I can always get a great sound with my gear, in any number of
ways. Still, it would be interesting to know just what Billy has done.
Might just be a few coincidences.
I love his tone on the first three or four albums. And live was just as
good!
~kp
~kp
Ted B
news:3f2498fb...@news.dynasty.net...
>
> I don't feel they (Korg RI) "nail" the JMI Vox. But, having played quite
a few
> of the vintage Vox a third sound pretty crappy, one third sound like
> they should and one third phenomenal. All the Korg reissue amps with
> the blues after a substantial play-in period sound pretty good even
> without mods.
The Korg models are setup to to be similar to a JMI Normal model with
integral TB. The primary differences are as follows:
- Korg transformers not quite as nice as the originals
- Korg unit is overfiltered (original filter values sound better)
- RI alnico blues sound a bit tighter and brighter than the originals (a
redeeming quality)
Another factor in why the Korgs sound as good as they do is because since
circa 2000, they come equipped with Ei preamp and power tubes, which are
*the* tube for Vox amps, and IMO, sound better than the original Mullards.
Ted B
news:3f249b02...@news.dynasty.net...
>
> Mid-60's Selmer T/B is sounds very much like you crossed AC50 with a
> Marshall and gives you a bit of a sag in the distortion because of the
> tube rectifier.
FWIW, I have an old Selmer Bassmaster 30w head, which predates the T&B 50
and sounds dynamite. The Bassmaster 30w is virtually identical to the T&B
50 except that it is cathode biased and sounds a little sweeter.
Ted B
"Catalina Thunders" <thunde...@diespambotsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:0g%Ua.1073$hp7...@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Perhaps, but you're comparing apples to oranges.
> The AC50 circuit is completely different from the
> AC30.
This is because the AC50 and subsequent larger wattage JMI amps were
designed primarily by Triumph Electronics, which was the contractor for
building JMI amps. Most JMI amps around today were actually built by T.E.
kp
Right, and Vox rated their amps as "xx watts before distortion"
The tweed bassman is another example
> of a "happy accident".
>
> The Marshall circuit you're referring to came
> later of course, right about the time a lot of
> players began to feel that amp distortion was
> preferrable to fuzz for most applications.
>
It sounds like you're refering to the circuits from the late '70's on. I
was thinking more in terms of a 45-50 watt Marshall from approximately the
same era, or just a little later.
>
> Perhaps, but you're comparing apples to oranges.
> The AC50 circuit is completely different from the
> AC30. The sound is totally different.
Of course.
> Not better or worse mind you, just different.
> As always, tone is in the ear of the beholder!
> Those of us who are passionate about our tones are
> often quite opnionated, but we must keep it in
> perspective -- it's just an opinion.
True enough. Add to that, that some folk's taste is in the tongue of their
shoe . . . ;-)
>
> I happen to love the colors black, red & purple.
> I'm not going to try to convince you to wear those
> colors, or get into an argument with you because
> you prefer white, green & yellow. If we all had
> the same taste, music (& everything else) would
> get really boring fast.
. . . and one's personal choices would no longer be special or unique.
>
> Personally, I always like to see people using
> unusual gear. It often expands the tonal palette,
> & I like to see people blaze their own trail just
> on principle.
Me too.
> :)
>
> Ther's no need to engage with those who would put
> down your Vox 'cause it's not the "fashionable"
> model.
Well, when it becomes clear that the person doesn't really know anything
about what it is they're putting down (such as the original EL84 Cambridge
Reverb), the discussion becomes not only meaningless, but absurd.
> You like it, that's all that matters.
Right.
> Just for the record, I think the AC50 sounds more
> musical than a Marshall Super Lead. If Jimi'd used
> 'em, they'd be the cat's ass today & you might not
> have been able to get one.
Oh, without a doubt. It's not even close, in any way, on any level. AC50's
are dripping with tone. Bone stock Super Leads are flat, dull and lifeless
by comparison (Sorry Scott, nothing personal, and I know you had yours
tweeked to your liking). Again, we'll agree that that's my opinion, for
what it's worth, albeit based on nearly 40 years of applicable hands-on
experience with some of these amps we're discussing.
~kp
horse...@yahoo.com
knew how far off you are with this whole arguement...LOL
horse...@yahoo.com
quick for your article on Ric pickups. I used it as a guideline when
I had Don Butler rewind the pickups on my Ric V63 325. It was very
well written.
I've always felt the Korg reissues sounded good though not the same as
my JMI stuff. Lately though, I've really given them a second look and
thought about having buying a AC15 reissue and having Don do his mod
on it as I have heard so many good things.
I believe he just switches out the transformer with a Mecury Magnetics
replica of an JMI AC15 tranny, switch the 5y3 rectifier with GZ34 and
puts in carbon compound resistors in the amp. Don told me a couple of
years ago that the mod comes real close in sound to his JMI AC15 that
you cannot tell the difference in sound between the two.
I have had T Weber recone several of my JMI Vox speakers and they
sounded great when I got them back. The new Alnico blue speakers
probably sound more how the amps did back when they first came out 40
or so years ago. Some of the original speakers in the vintage amps
are so shot to shit that they are unsutuable for any type of playing
but Kinks songs. LOL
I think EI tubes are great and usually run those in my Vox amps for
every day play. I like record with Mullards and Brimars. I think
between the two though Brimars are my favorite. There clean tone is
acceptable and they distort a little nicer too me. In addition,
Brimars are the most rugged, long lasting tube in my opinion out
there. I've never had one go bad on me yet, especially the pre-amp
tubes.
With EI being about 1/20th of the price though you cannot beat them
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:12:54 -0500, "Ted B" <tabr...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
horse...@yahoo.com
wouldn't mind adding a Watkins Dominator or joker to my collection as
well.
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:17:03 -0500, "Ted B" <tabr...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
><horse...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
horse...@yahoo.com
constructed an "amp cabin" built out of tweed champs and harvard amps.
He also made use of the Scholz rockman
He may have played live with Marshall super leads, but may have gone
with a smaller amp for recording
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:09:08 GMT, "kp" <no...@all.com> wrote:
>
>On 28-Jul-2003, jh <jh-audio...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi Kent,
>> are you really sure, that Billy used a Marshall in the early days?
>
>I'll be honest, I don't know all the amps he used, or what he used to get
>his recorded sounds. I do know that I saw ZZ Top in 1975-6, and they were
>using Marshalls with a LaGrange badge - at least that's what they looked
>like, and I've been told later that that's what they were. I've also been
>told that
>>
>> I thought that too, until i had a strange experience 2 years ago.
>> I had bought a Victoria Tweed Deluxe clone and tried it in my practice
>> room;
>>
>> plugged in my LesPaul;
>> used my Marshall Cab ( 16 Ohms; Greenbacks)
>> cranked it up => Bingo
>>
>> This combination sounded so much closer to the early albums than i ever
>> came using my Marshalls....
>>
>
>My Marshalls never got that close to the sound either, which is one reason
>I've long suspected he had a trick up his sleeve, such as another small amp
>behind the stacks, either miced on it's own or running into the Marshalls.
>
>> I have an "Amp Edition" of GP where BG sits on a Tweed Deluxe saying "He
>> owned it for eons and used it very often"
>
>Yeah, I believe it.
>
>>
>> Perhaps you have some first hand info; IIRC you扉e been in that area at
Ted B
news:3f25363...@news.dynasty.net...
>
> If your the same guy I think you are I wanted to say "thanks" real
> quick for your article on Ric pickups. I used it as a guideline when
> I had Don Butler rewind the pickups on my Ric V63 325. It was very
> well written.
That is me. I am glad you found it useful. Thank you.
> I believe he just switches out the transformer with a Mecury Magnetics
> replica of an JMI AC15 tranny, switch the 5y3 rectifier with GZ34 and
> puts in carbon compound resistors in the amp. Don told me a couple of
> years ago that the mod comes real close in sound to his JMI AC15 that
> you cannot tell the difference in sound between the two.
Hmmmm, the JMI AC15 is a different beast. I have an AC30/4, which is the
very first AC30 design. Like the AC15, it has the EF86 preamp. This amp
has a different sound. The JMI AC15s and AC30/4 sound very sweet at low
volumes, but gets extremely angry when cranked. The EF86 pentode circuit
sounds a little bit different than a 12AX7 triode. The RI AC15 is more or
less 1/2 of a RI AC30.
> The new Alnico blue speakers
> probably sound more how the amps did back when they first came out 40
> or so years ago.
Actually, the RI blue has a different VC, which like the RI Greenbacks,
doesn't sound as warm as the originals did.
jh
horse...@yahoo.com schrieb:
>
> I know on "Eliminator" I read an Gibbons interview saying he had
> constructed an "amp cabin" built out of tweed champs and harvard amps.
> He also made use of the Scholz rockman
>
> He may have played live with Marshall super leads, but may have gone
> with a smaller amp for recording
Hi
sorry
We talked 惑out the EARLY albums of ZZ Top... Eli is definitely not in
that category 8^]
You can forget any detail Billy Gibbons tells about his backline in an
interview....there were contradictions in any interview he gave. He was
propably joking....
I had the chance to "inspect" the backline of them in '98; they said
that they were using Oranges...forget about it.....the amps were
dummies; 1/2 of the cabs were made of styrofoam.
The backline consisted of JMP1 s and 9200 Power amps + Peavey
Autographs. sigh
The RioGrande Amps were said to be 135 Watt Amps made by a Guy in
Texas...Maybe it愀 true
regards
Jochen
jh
> Wish I had more info. At one time I'd have almost killed to learn his
> secret(s). It's not so urgent anymore, because by now I've got a few tricks
> of my own! I can always get a great sound with my gear, in any number of
> ways.
>Still, it would be interesting to know just what Billy has done.
We will never know; I´m not sure whether he himself remembers what he
did or what he used in the early days...and if he told us we would not
know whether it´s true or not; his interviews were not that accurat in
the past.
>
> I love his tone on the first three or four albums. And live was just as
> good!
same with me...
regards
Jochen
Ted B
news:3f2538ea...@news.dynasty.net...
>
> Older Selmers are definitely underated and a "best kept secret." I
> wouldn't mind adding a Watkins Dominator or joker to my collection as
> well.
I've owned a very early Watkins Dominator. It's a very sweet recording amp.
kp
On 28-Jul-2003, "kp" <no...@all.com> wrote:
> I do know that I saw ZZ Top in 1975-6, and they were
> using Marshalls with a LaGrange badge - at least that's what they looked
> like, and I've been told later that that's what they were.
Correction, brain phart: I meant to say Rio Grande, not LaGrange.
(I'm not thinking properly the past couple of days, there's been a death in
the family)
~kp
kp
On 28-Jul-2003, jh <jh-audio...@t-online.de> wrote:
> We will never know; I´m not sure whether he himself remembers what he
> did or what he used in the early days...
Oh, I'm sure he remembers quite well. If Dave Davies can remember what he
used on The Kinks first recordings (an El Pico with a razor slashed
speaker), I'm sure Billy can remember as well. I remember all my old gear,
don't you? You don't forget that stuff.
> and if he told us we would not
> know whether it´s true or not; his interviews were not that accurate in
> the past.
I think this is getting more to the truth of the matter. I heard a rumour
to the effect that Mark Knopfler approached BG to try and get some help
approximating that sound for the song "Money For Nothing". BG was less than
helpful, so Mark came up with his own and that's what we heard. Of course,
it's a rumour. I can't say if there's any truth to that. But you know what
they say, "There's more than one way to skin a cat!"
~kp
Blkojo
albums...it's what I hear as well. He also used a Strat a lot more than many
players realize. Example..."La Grange" is a Strat.
lee blueyonder
re-issue, of course im not saying the Cambridge or Pathfinder are a real
attempt at anything other than a moneyspinner. Unfortunatly they own the
name 'VOX' and can do whatever they want with it, ( a abit like Ford and the
Jaguar, V8 engine??) But they make a great AC30, I paid £500 for a 2nd hand
one, Blue alnicos (they cost £175 each, so thats £150 for the amp) as good a
tone as any ive played, and ive played a few, so what did you pay for your
elitist snobbed up JMI? $2k?? then of course you have to get it repaired,
sorry serviced twice per year, and the speakers just dont have the sparkle
that the new alnico's have, maybe you bought a pair of new ones?
Lee aka lynard
kp
I don't doubt any of that in the least. I don't have it in front of me, but
I can hear a strat in my head, yeah. That would probably go for "Have You
Heard" as well (again, hearing it in my memory).
~kp
kp
On 28-Jul-2003, "lee blueyonder" <lee.w...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I was only talking about the AC30 as being a true attempt by korg as a
> re-issue, of course im not saying the Cambridge or Pathfinder are a real
> attempt at anything other than a moneyspinner.
Naw, they're nothing the same. The original Cambridge was a great little
amp. Anyone who's ever played through one wants one. The new ones are just
what you said, nothing more. I don't even consider them real amps, just a
waste of money.
~kp
Spike
I can sum up working on one of these, this way:
What a F***ing Pain in the Ass to work on.
Yes, they are dangerous as all get up too!
The brits and thier POS electronic designs...
the thing is a death trap waiting for the
most opportune time to kill.
The amp is an accident waiting to happen.
The amp rests on a wooden table type platform
in the head. You unscrew the back and pull it out.
Then looking at it side ways it is shaped like and L
with the table platform under the bass of the L.
There are a couple of kickers about this amp.
To bias it, you need to keep the back, there are
short interface wires from the power plug to the
PT and from the speaker jack to the OT.
So Imagine a fender amp where you have to keep that
little back panel with the chassis to power and run your speakers
when testing or biasing.
The next fun thing, there are servicable componants on two legs of the
L. That is sticking out the back of the L and on the bottom of the L
So set the fricking bias....
1. you have to dump the L over, frontward and brace the amp so the
powertubes and trannies down burn or rest on something.
2. you've got that friggin back panel to deal with, where the power
feeds through and speakers plug into the jack.
3. you have to clip you test leads to the bottom of the L
to measure current thought the dropping resistors.
4.You have to reach into the amp from the power tubes/transformer
mains filters exposed, with a screwdrive, being careful not to short
or touch some funky ass power resistor...exposed! keeping careful
watch the back panel doesn't get in the way, AND making sure
the lead don't unclip....
4a. while doing this you can actually reach the pots to turn them
and adujst the bias! Remember you are reaching into the
cavern of the L, dumped over forwards...
When I finally finished rebuilding the POS....
What did I discover?
This amp ROCKS !!!!!
Two EL34s make for some sweet sustain,
chunky crunch, and searing lead tone!
I love it's tone...It is just a royal pain to work on.
Regards,
Spike
kp
On 29-Jul-2003, spike...@yahoo.com (Spike ) wrote:
> What did I discover?
>
>
> This amp ROCKS !!!!!
>
> Two EL34s make for some sweet sustain,
> chunky crunch, and searing lead tone!
>
THAT'S what I'm talking about. That what an AC50 does.
> I love it's tone...It is just a royal pain to work on.
Since I'm a player and not a repairman, it's like. . . . . OH WELL! ;-)
~kp
Spike
I know, but the thing shure as hell wasn' t like that when
the guy brought it in. And yes, once I went through it,
it still took me several months of trying to figure out
where the nasty hum was coming from.
it was...
Try to figure it out....
Set it back down and make some dough....
Try to figrue it out....
Set it back down and make some dough....
Eventually I figured it out...
It was not any of the usual suspects either!
Yes....now that it was working....
Damn, it sure sounded sweet.
that is kind of a bummer about this biz...
I've had to return some really FINE amps....
Some I was hoping they wouldn't pay
and I'd be forced to keep the amp.
Regards,
Spike
kp
On 30-Jul-2003, spike...@yahoo.com (Spike ) wrote:
> I know, but the thing shure as hell wasn' t like that when
> the guy brought it in. And yes, once I went through it,
> it still took me several months of trying to figure out
> where the nasty hum was coming from.
My first AC50 had a nasty hum too. I figured it was caps. It sounded
really sweet, I mean REALLY sweet, if you could get past the hum. One day I
decided I could afford to give it to some guy to replace the caps and get
rid of the hum. I don't know what he did, other than neuter the amp. He
KILLED it! I ended up selling it becaue it was useless like that with no
balls.
20 years went by, all the while I was kicking myself in the ass for getting
rid of it. It could have been fixed. Last year I got another one. No Hum,
GREAT tone! I'm keeping this one!
~kp
jh
kp schrieb:
>
> On 28-Jul-2003, jh <jh-audio...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> > We will never know; I惴 not sure whether he himself remembers what he
> > did or what he used in the early days...
>
> Oh, I'm sure he remembers quite well. If Dave Davies can remember what he
> used on The Kinks first recordings (an El Pico with a razor slashed
> speaker), I'm sure Billy can remember as well. I remember all my old gear,
> don't you? You don't forget that stuff.
_________________________________________________________________________
of course I can remember what I have used in the past, but I 惴 not
living "that fast as many stars"; I had the "luck??" to see BG from one
side of the lunch table to the other; as local Band with a "major deal"
played support for ZZ Top during the Rhythmeen Tour in Germany and I was
with them when they played their last gig with ZZ Top.
Billy was so slim, i thought that I can see through him; I think he had
2/3 of my wheight although I惴 propably as tall (or small) as he. The
guy was eating something all the time; it was incredible... He looked
quite exhausted and that did not change that much, when they played
their set.
I must admit that he is definitely one of my heroes, but this was a
little bit shocking.
In his case it would not be a surprise for me if he said "well-that愀
soo long ago i really can愒 remember, but no -hey- it was the same ole
JCM900, that I扉e played for years......." 8^|
_________________________________________________________________________
SNIP
> ~kp
_________________________________________________________________________
regards
Jochen
Jim
n the mid-60's I had a Heathkit Guitar Amp my father built. Certainly wasn't a
screaming, rocking amp, but it was an extremely nice mellow jazz amp. I traded
this off to a guy, the lead guitarist in LV's band back in DC, for his Vox
AC30..this was back in 65/66. What a trade !!!!! I later lent this amp to LV's
bass player, he never returned it, I went into the Navy and completely lost track
of this amp.
I've always regretted loaning out/losing this amp...Since then I've gone through
a number of amps, including a black face Bandmaster, Gibson Falcon, Oliver,
(another amp I should have never gotten rid of), Super Beatle, to name a few. I
finally decided to bite the bullet and by a 64/65 AC-30....but I wanted one that
hadn't been altered..about as original as I could possibly find, I wouldn't
settle for anything less, after all..I was going to be playing a Gretsch
Tennesean I bought brand new back in 65 through it. I finally gave up the "dream"
of finding a unaltered AC-30 here in San Diego. I was back in the DC area and
bought a Korg AC-30TB at Chuck Levins and had it shipped, at their expense, to
San Diego. And wouldn't you know it...within two week of buying the Korg I found
about as an unaltered AC-30 as one can find...and paid about the same price as I
paid for the Korg. Now I have both...and surprise, surprise they don't sound
identical. The Korg doesn't sound any better or any worse then the my original
JMI AC-30, just different. In some areas I like the Korg better then the JMI
AC-30...in other areas it doesn't sound as nice as the AC-30. Since the AC-30 is
so much older, I wonder if the Korg doesn't sound just the way my JMI AC-30
sounded almost 40 years ago when the AC-30 was new.
To me it all boils down to personal preference...if you like the way the amp
sounds when you play through it...what more do you need, who gives a rats behind
what anyone thinks about your gear???...as long as you're satisfied with it.
Like I said...just my opinion.
Jim