Blue Angel Problem
Frank A. Baffoni, M.D.
hiss). I tried changing each tube in the amp but it didn't get any quieter.
The tone of the amp is absolutely killer but it's just too noisy to use for
things like low volume jazz. I spoke with a Mesa tech and he said the amp is
supposed to be noisy because it is a class A amp. Does anyone know any way
of reducing the volume level of this hiss without significantly compromising
the quality of the sound.
Thanks !
Frank
recruiterman
I played a Blue Angel in a store a couple of years ago, I had the volume up
a bit, but I didn't notice any objectionable level of hiss. The Blue Angel
is actually supposed to be a clean amp for Mesa, for Blues players, etc...
You mentioned that you tried different tubes. Did you use the correct tube
values? For example, if the first preamp tube calls for a 12AT7 for
instance, and you use a 12AX7, you'll get more gain, hence more hiss. If it
calls for a 12AX7, try substituting a lower gain pre-amp tube like a 12AT7
and see what that does. You'll get a bit lower volume because the tube is a
lower gain tube. Make sure that you're using the recommended tube values,
not just any tubes.
Also, check inside the chassis (with the amp off and unplugged) if you have
some experience inside amps. I believe those amps are PC board based
circuits. Trace the wire that runs from pin 1 and 6 of the pre-amp tubes to
the board. It should connect to a plate load resistor. I don't know what
type of resistors Mesa uses in those amps, but if they're carbon comps, they
have a tendency to drift and change values over time, especially when
exposed to the type of heat in an amp chassis. Sometimes, hiss is caused by
these plate load resistors. In most cases, swapping out the carbon comp
plate resistors and either substituting them for metal film, or a larger
wattage carbon comp will solve or reduce the hiss problem. I use carbon
comps in my circuit boards and amps for most of the circuit, but I use high
quality metal films for the plate load resistors, so that I don't have to
worry about hiss now, or later on. Hope this helps.
Mikey
"Frank A. Baffoni, M.D." <fbaf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:bbm5cb$99n$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
the Boogie Man
"recruiterman" <recrui...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1x6dnSBO2aK...@comcast.com...
Mikey, the Mesa amps usually use metal films for plate resistors
so the carbon comp thingy is not an issue, however, you made
some excellent points about making sure the preamp tubes are correct
or of less gain to minimize the hiss. Unfortunately, the tone will be
different,
but should be useful for Frank's application of having a good sounding jazz
amp, maybe.
Frank, what type of jazz sound are you after, after all?
7 string? Fusion? Smooth stuff? Nice warm tone with just a little edge or no
edge?
Just curious.
Ed @ Sonic Surgery
Frank A. Baffoni, M.D.
I like the Blue Angel for the nice warm soft chord melody type Jazz, ala Joe
Pass (only I'm no where near that good of a guitarist). I will probably take
the amp to an authorized repair shop since I'm not electronically
experienced enough to do anything but the tube substitution principle that
was mentioned. I did use preamp and amp tubes of the exact model numbers. I
initially thought it might have been a preamp tube, since I get the same
amount of hiss using the 6v6's or the EL84's as well as combining them
together (using the progressive linkage setting). It's crazy, I have
Marshall high gain amps that are quieter than this Blue Angel at an
equivalent volume in the clean channel !
Thanks for your help ED and Mikey !
"the Boogie Man" <commieu...@bogeycentral.net> wrote in message
news:3HyDa.34364$hj5....@fe07.atl2.webusenet.com...
Axeplyr
This white noise problem you are referring to is a "feature" of the
Mesa Blue Angel. A friend of mine bought one and, while he also loves
the tone, has had to deal with the same hiss. He went as far as
contacting Mesa. They gave him an adjustment inside the amp (a
potentiometer, I think). He was able to adjusted until the hiss was
bearable, but it killed the tone. He readjusted the pot to its
original setting, and now he just lives with the hiss.
~ John
"Frank A. Baffoni, M.D." <fbaf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<bbnc4j$fel$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>...
Frank A. Baffoni, M.D.
Thanks for the information !
Mesa told me the same thing, that it's a noisy amp and if I checked all the
tubes and they are ok then the amp is probably working properly. If I use
the amp for blues with an overdrive pedal at significant volumes then the
hiss gets lost in the background, but try to use this amp for what it would
really excel at (i.e. quiet light jazz) and it's not going to happen because
you end up with more hiss than guitar sound ! The richness of the amp would
be absolutely stunning for jazz tunes! If you could forward this email to
your friend who has the blue angel so that I could correspond with him I
would greatly appreciate it!
Thanks !!
Frank
"Axeplyr" <jflu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b33f68c4.03060...@posting.google.com...
Mirage2all
The best I could do was reduce the hiss with different pre-amp tubes.
Try the sovteck 5751 and ElectroHarmonics 12ax7's they will quite the hiss
quite a bit. Its still there but not as loud...this amps tone just kills..I use
mine with two celestion Blues and it sounds awsome.
recruiterman
what type of resistors they use. One other thing I was thinking about
Frank's hiss problem, even though there's metal films for the plate
resistors, since it is a PCB circuit board, I'm wondering if maybe he has a
loose solder connection or damaged trace? Also, maybe one of the resistors
is bad. I'd like to take my chopstick and poke around in there a bit to see
if any of the components are loose or damaged in some way.
Mikey
"the Boogie Man" <commieu...@bogeycentral.net> wrote in message
news:3HyDa.34364$hj5....@fe07.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Mikey, the Mesa amps usually use metal films for plate resistors
> so the carbon comp thingy is not an issue, however, you made
> some excellent points about making sure the preamp tubes are correct
> or of less gain to minimize the hiss. Unfortunately, the tone will be
> different,
> but should be useful for Frank's application of having a good sounding
jazz
> amp, maybe.
> Ed @ Sonic Surgery
recruiterman
when I was trying out a vintage Tele. I played the 4x10 and the single 12"
models. I honestly don't remember any abnormal hissing coming from the amp.
Of course, there was a bit of single coil noise from the Tele, but nothing
that I can recall that came from the amp that was more than expected. I was
also checking out the Blue Angels as well, while I was trying out the Tele.
The tones were good, but the amps didn't have the sparkle that I love from
the Fenders. I've been a Fender guy for the last 33 years, with the
exception of a few different amp purchases along the way, but I always
returned to the Fender clean tones. I'll have to look for a Blue Angel the
next time I'm in that store, and I'll see if they do indeed hiss more than
usual. I just don't remember that being the case from the last time I played
through them.
Mikey
"Axeplyr" <jflu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b33f68c4.03060...@posting.google.com...
the Boogie Man
> Thanks Ed. I haven't been inside the Blue Angel chassis, so I wasn't sure
> what type of resistors they use. One other thing I was thinking about
> Frank's hiss problem, even though there's metal films for the plate
> resistors, since it is a PCB circuit board, I'm wondering if maybe he has
a
> loose solder connection or damaged trace? Also, maybe one of the resistors
> is bad. I'd like to take my chopstick and poke around in there a bit to
see
> if any of the components are loose or damaged in some way.
>
> Mikey
Mikey, since Boogies have double-sided PCBs, the possibility
of a cracked solder connection is unlikely and if there was a crack
somewhere, the resulting "side effect" would more be of the nature
of crackling and sputtering, not hiss. The hiss is likely from too much
gain in the first stage that is being amplified down the line.
Mirage2all seems to come up with somewhat of a solution by using
a preamp tube with less transconductance than the original, but Boogies
are already using 12AX7 EH tubes for preamp. But Frank should try the
5751 for V1 and see what he gets. Then again, one could change the
plate/cathode resistance ratio to lower the gain of the first stage and
perhaps
also the second stage to lower the hiss, but how much it will affect the
tone
is the question. If the change is not too drastic, it might still preserve
the
quality of the tone Frank likes while lowering the amount of hiss.
Then again, there's always the 12AU7 or 12AT7 to experiment with for V1.
Ed
JTM50
I had it up to full boar and I don't recall an abnormally high amount of
hiss.
While I'm not Mr. Fender I do agree that the classic models do have more
tone than the Blue Angel...
Lloyd
in article 0TSdndLt0d4...@comcast.com, recruiterman at
recrui...@comcast.net wrote on 6/5/03 8:15 PM:
PB
the hiss was just about unacceptable at clean volume settings. A problem
when recording. Tried lots of different tubes, 12AX7, 5751, NOS Mullard,
etc. while searching for tone. Didn't seem to change the signal-to-noise
ratio. Interesting amp, great spring reverb, but I moved on. Carr and
Matchless do the clean to medium gain thing for me now.
Paul B
Greg D
Frank,
You're not using P90's are you? The reason I ask is that my recent Gibson
ES-137P with P90's made my otherwise quiet Fender DRRI noisy as all get
out.
GReg
Frank A. Baffoni, M.D.
I have tried just about every guitar and pickup combination. Humbuckings are
obviously with out the hum, but the white noise I talking about is before
you even plug in a guitar and cable.
Thanks,
Frank
"Greg D" <oas...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9395BFF236F...@68.1.17.6...
Greg D
> Hi Greg,
> I have tried just about every guitar and pickup combination. Humbuckings are
> obviously with out the hum, but the white noise I talking about is before
> you even plug in a guitar and cable.
Oh... too bad, since that amp is not sold as high gain model. OK, one
last thing... I know the white noise sounds loud in your practice
room, but how about with a jam band at near gig levels. Most noise
seems to become sonically invisible at that time, which is fine if you
gig with it, but not if you don't.
Recent experience: My fave recent guitar was a Gibson ES-137P archtop
with P90's. The sweetest sounding guitar with any pedal or amp! Well,
with gigging the pup noise was so loud that when I was not playing I
had to kill the volume (with my vol pedal). Is your amp as bad as that
guitar was? Even with the noise - I still miss that guitar.
Greg
Frank A. Baffoni, M.D.
the usual ambient club noise it's OK, especially if I use an overdrive pedal
with a noise gate. It's too bad that in this situation the special nuances
of the amp's subtle dynamics are lost but the amp still obviously kicks
butt! I have some Electro Harmonics 12AX7 tubes in the mail which are
supposed to have a very low noise floor. It may help a little but the blue
angel's preamp section idles so high that I'm not expecting a night to day
difference.
Frank
"Greg D" <oas...@cox.net> wrote in message
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