Dumble clones ?
ESL555
Gil Ayan
ESL555 wrote in message <19990707170630...@ng35.aol.com>...
>Has anyone found an amp or effect that sounds like a Dumble overdrive ?
No pedal I have ever played has come close to the sound a Dumble, so that's
my input there.
Regarding other amps, well, there are a number out there that sound somewhat
similar. If you're into building your own amps though, there are complete
schematics for older Dumbles available all over the place, for example here:
http://home.att.net/~amptech/dumbleos.zip
The newer models are slightly different, with a couple of changes to them.
Some Internet fellow amp fans have already built copies of these amps and
appear to be very happy with the results.
Gil
JT Kirk
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Marty Eyre
Folks,
Start of a probably long ramble.
I have been thinking about what follows for awhile. This group is definitely
the right place for rigorous
thought concerning the idea.
So I yearn for a Dumble ODS, like Robben Ford's on Mystic Mile. Ain't gonna
happen $13-$20k. So...
What I have been thinking about is the "Voicing" or "Tuning" that Mr. Dumble
applies to his amps. I have
read most of the easily obtainable literature and no one talks about this other
than to say it happens. So what
is Voicing?
Is it proper positioning of the signal on the load line of the tube(s) aka
bias, not only in power tubes but preamps also?
Is that what the trim pots are for in a Dumble?
Is it very accurate tuning of the tone stack(s) ?
Can component selection xfrmrs, caps, resistors, tubes, be compensated, at
least in part, by active tone networks
with much more granular adjustments (say 31 band eq)? Isn't it logical
that one should be able to focus in
much more clearly on the fundamental and harmonics of the signal? As
opposed to what appears to me to
be a sort of shotgun approach of bass,treble, and maybe mid.
Is the "Tuning" addressing this more granular signal processing approach,
hence being specific to an instrument?
There are of course the assembly technique issues. Robustness, proper attention
to routing of wires and parasitic osc. suppression
what else about the process affects tone?
What do you think?
Marty
Gil Ayan
complicated than they are... like you wouldn't say that Clapton fine-tuned
his vibrato by applying a pulsing force of between 2 oz and 1.5 lbs on the
strings, shaking his arm at 2 Hz for the first 10 millisencods and tapering
off the vibrato in exponential manner thereafter, right? I'm sure Clapton
messed with his vibrato some, and then started polishing his technique form
there....
Along his amplifier-building career, I am sure that Dumble found out what
components he liked, much like most people will say they like Svetlana tubes
but not their Chinese counterparts, for instance. The voicing of an amp
doesn't require that you build a computer program to simulate every aspect
of it and tweak 10,000 different parameters.
More than likely, Dumble's "custom voicing" consists of tweaking the
internal "overdrive trigger" pot and, according to the literature I have,
the "high frequency taper" control in his amps until the owner is happy. In
the September 1985 GP interview, Dumble talked about making some changes to
an Overdrive Special for David Lindley "I might have changed a capacitor to
some extent, so that it has a different treble response, but the circuitry
is basically the same." I think that gives you an idea of where he's coming
from.
Gil
Marty Eyre wrote in message <3784E781...@maine.rr.com>...
Dennis Savage
Gil Ayan wrote
>...Clapton fine-tuned
>his vibrato by applying a pulsing force of between 2 oz and 1.5 lbs on the
>strings, shaking his arm at 2 Hz for the first 10 millisencods and tapering
>off the vibrato in exponential manner thereafter...
This is freaking me out -- I was talking to his guitar tech the other day
that this is EXACTLY what he did...very spacey you would know that.
Gil Ayan
Dennis Savage wrote in message ...
Well, Dennis, I am Clapton's guitar tech... I answered all your questions
and you forget my name? It's very "spacey" of you to be so "space out" like
that. ;/
Gil
Jim Collins
Gil Ayan wrote in message <7m32ao$5jo$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...
In a way, aren't we all Clapton's... never mind.
Ned Carlson
>
> Has anyone found an amp or effect that sounds like a Dumble overdrive ?
There's schematics out there...we can sell you a replica
output transformer...not cheap ($299), but made off the
original diagrams.
--
Ned Carlson Triode Electronics "where da tubes are!"
2225 W Roscoe Chicago, IL, 60618 USA
ph 773-871-7459 fax 773-871-7938
12:30 to 8 PM CT, (1830-0200 UTC) 12:30-5 Sat, Closed Wed & Sun
<A HREF="http://www.triodeel.com">http://www.triodeel.com</A>
Dennis Savage
Dumb Bull wrote in message <378657...@aol.com>...
>Check this out.
>
Punkerdubh
Gil Ayan <ay...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7m31e2$58q$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com...
[snip]
> Clapton fine-tuned his vibrato by applying a pulsing force
> of between 2 oz and 1.5 lbs on the strings, shaking his arm
> at 2 Hz for the first 10 millisencods and tapering off the
> vibrato in exponential manner thereafter
Actually the taper is closer to a Gaussian curve, but you're
on the right track.
- Punkerdubh
je...@nospamop.net
>>that this is EXACTLY what he did...very spacey you would know that.
>
>
>Well, Dennis, I am Clapton's guitar tech... I answered all your questions
Really??
Me too!!!
Gil Ayan
je...@NOSPAMop.net wrote in message <37862660...@news.op.net>...
Of course, Jeff, we work together... :/
Gil
je...@nospamop.net
wrote:
>>>Well, Dennis, I am Clapton's guitar tech... I answered all your questions
>>
>>Really??
>>Me too!!!
>
>Of course, Jeff, we work together... :/
Oh, is that YOU, Gil?
Hey, don't tell Eric I bought `Brownie' through an intermediary, ok?
I'm going to string it lefty.
Gil Ayan
>Oh, is that YOU, Gil?
"You're bloody right it's me, mate. It's not loike we're stargers, ey!"
>Hey, don't tell Eric I bought `Brownie' through an intermediary, ok?
>I'm going to string it lefty.
No problem, it will stay between us. :/
And hey, about our "boss," he just auctioned off a few guitars in NYC and
raised $5M. Fine thus far, coincidentally, I was reading the paper
yesterday (L.A. Limes, I guess that makes me Eric's west coast tech) and he
just bought an ocean view property in Santa Monica. Small thing, a one
bedroom $1.3 M, 2,700 sqft property -- really small and low priced for that
area, I guess it will be just a little place to crash when he comes to L.A.
Now, do you suppose this came out of the $5M proceeds from the auction? Or
is is a mere coincidence? Ask him, Jess. will you please? ;/
Gil
Gil Ayan
Gil Ayan wrote in message <7md859$o45$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com>...
BTW, "stargers" is cokney for "strangers," when the person can't type worth
a crap!
>is is a mere coincidence? Ask him, Jess. will you please? ;/
"Jess" in this case is "Jeff." Again, when the cockney-accented individual
can't type, that's what "Jeff" looks like in written form.
Sorry about all these typoes, guys.
Gil
je...@nospamop.net
wrote:
>>Hey, don't tell Eric I bought `Brownie' through an intermediary, ok?
>>I'm going to string it lefty.
>
>No problem, it will stay between us. :/
I'm also going to call Fender and give them hell for whoever's stupid
idea it was to put active electronics and silly pickups in his
signature guitar. And not offer it lefty.
I'll lose my job yet - just you wait and see.
>And hey, about our "boss," he just auctioned off a few guitars in NYC and
>raised $5M.
That's where I got Brownie.
>just bought an ocean view property in Santa Monica. Small thing, a one
>bedroom $1.3 M, 2,700 sqft property -- really small and low priced for that
Will coincidences never cease.
Next thing you'll tell me is he's using again.
>area, I guess it will be just a little place to crash when he comes to L.A.
>Now, do you suppose this came out of the $5M proceeds from the auction? Or
>is is a mere coincidence? Ask him, Jess. will you please? ;/
I told you not to call me that in public.
Gil Ayan
Andy Fuchs and Family wrote in message <378D47AF...@erols.com>...
>Any information on what these changes were(are) ? a
>Gil Ayan wrote:
> The newer models are slightly different, with a couple of changes to
them.
> Some Internet fellow amp fans have already built copies of these amps
and
> appear to be very happy with the results.
>
> Gil
For free? Don't think so.... :) The schematics you see out on the Internet
are for late 70s Dumbles, as I understand it. If you want a 90s schematic,
with the "Skyline" tone stack modification, etc., I think you'll have to do
some digging around. I'd appreciate a CC: when you find that one too... ;/
Gil
Ned Carlson
>
> Seems like a steep boast, considering Dumble uses Fenders....a
Not all of 'em...some used a Peerless 16747, which
definitely is not a Fender part!
Joseph R. Palicke
not all of us can read your posts this way.
i know i'm using pine, and i'm sure one or two others check their
mail/read news in this way as well.
joe
On Wed, 14 Jul 1999, Andy Fuchs and Family wrote:
> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:01:29 -0400
> From: Andy Fuchs and Family <afu...@erols.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.guitar.amps
> Subject: Re: Dumble clones ?
>
> <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
> <html>
> Seems like a steep boast, considering Dumble uses Fenders....a
> <p>Ned Carlson wrote:
> <blockquote TYPE=CITE>ESL555 wrote:
> <br>>
> <br>> Has anyone found an amp or effect that sounds like a Dumble overdrive
> ?
> <p>There's schematics out there...we can sell you a replica
> <br>output transformer...not cheap ($299), but made off the
> <br>original diagrams.
> <p>--
> <br>Ned Carlson Triode Electronics "where da tubes are!"
> <br>2225 W Roscoe Chicago, IL, 60618 USA
> <br>ph 773-871-7459 fax 773-871-7938
> <br>12:30 to 8 PM CT, (1830-0200 UTC) 12:30-5 Sat, Closed Wed & Sun
> <br><A HREF="<a href="http://www.triodeel.com">http://www.triodeel.com</a>"><a href="http://www.triodeel.com">http://www.triodeel.com</a></A></blockquote>
> </html>
>
>
>
rocke...@my-deja.com
esl...@aol.com (ESL555) wrote:
> Has anyone found an amp or effect that sounds like a Dumble overdrive
?
>
Come on people!
First of all the attraction to the dumbles in the 70s&80s was the fact
that Howard would come to your(Larry, Stevie, Robin,etc..) studio when
you were recording and tweak until you were happy. In fact, Dumble
business card reads "Audio consultant" not "tube guru". That is what the
hefty price tags were- the time he spent with you. And every Dumble
sounded different. That is why no big company has cloned them. Each one
was different. They were based on fender designs.No doubt. The
schematics we find may not be so accurate, and they are from very old
amps.
In the eighties he took so many prepayments and did not deliver, he had
to change his name to his middle, Alexander for legal reasons.
The great dumbles are the FET input ones. And they are all epoxied so
there is no schematic of those. It would be very easy for a large
company to clone even these; with the current FFT and other amazing
analysis that can be performed it is easy to reverse engineer "black
box" stuff to meet exact distortion characteristics. But still, each one
is different, tweeked for each player.Line6 has a Dumble setting, what
does that mean? It should say Dumble/Larry or Dumble/Eric johnson(lest
we forget he plays em?
Anyway, play what sounds good to you
Gil Ayan
rocke...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7mm591$2f8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <19990707170630...@ng35.aol.com>,
>The great dumbles are the FET input ones. And they are all epoxied so
>there is no schematic of those.
Do you want to bet? :) That stuff chips off rather easily, with
patience... and before I get flooded with emails, no, I have never chipped
away at a Dumble. Others have though.
Gil
Punkerdubh
<rocke...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7mm591$2f8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> It would be very easy for a large company to clone even these;
I don't want to point fingers, but I've heard people imply that
the magic epoxy-covered "mojo" circuit in some Mesa amps
(Blue Angel is one) was reverse engineered from a Dumble.
This info is based on rumor and innuendo so caveat emptor.
- Punkerdubh
P.S. Try running "Dumble" through your spell checker.
Jack A. Zucker
>
><rocke...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:7mm591$2f8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> It would be very easy for a large company to clone even these;
>
>I don't want to point fingers, but I've heard people imply that
>the magic epoxy-covered "mojo" circuit in some Mesa amps
>(Blue Angel is one) was reverse engineered from a Dumble.
>This info is based on rumor and innuendo so caveat emptor.
>
Then why do they sound like crap ?
--
Jack A. Zucker
E-Mail: j...@gwis.com
Check out my guitar page:
http://w3.gwis.com/~jaz
Gil Ayan
solid state reverb driver/recovery section.... Am I wrong? :)
Gil
Jack A. Zucker wrote in message
<7QLj3.40282$AU3.8...@news2.giganews.com>...
Punkerdubh
Jack A. Zucker <j...@gwis.com> wrote in message
news:7QLj3.40282$AU3.8...@news2.giganews.com...
> >the magic epoxy-covered "mojo" circuit in some Mesa amps
> >(Blue Angel is one) was reverse engineered from a Dumble.
> >This info is based on rumor and innuendo so caveat emptor.
> >
>
> Then why do they sound like crap ?
>
> --
> Jack A. Zucker
> E-Mail: j...@gwis.com
>
> Check out my guitar page:
> http://w3.gwis.com/~jaz
Hey JAZ,
please don't go makin' statements like that in a public forum until
*after* I sell my Blue Angel <g>. Actually I don't think it sounds
that bad, but it don't hold a candle to my '58 Tremolux.
- Punkerdubh
Gil Ayan
Gil
Mookie2112 wrote in message
<19990716200834...@ng-fj1.aol.com>...
>>I was under the impression that the stuff under the Blue Angel's goop is
the
>>solid state reverb driver/recovery section.... Am I wrong? :)
>>
>
>
>So why does Mesa claim (among others) that the Blue Angel is 100% tube
>circuity?
>
>I agree with Jack Zucker....out of all the Mesas I've tried, the Blue Angel
is
>the worst. I'm actually a Boogie fan, but not the Angel.
>
>Mook
>
Mookie2112
Danny Russell
I was under the impression that the stuff under the Blue Angel's goop is
the
solid state reverb driver/recovery section.... Am I wrong? :)
Gil
I believe you're right. Same for the Subway Blues... etc. -Danny
Danny Russell
>
> So why does Mesa claim (among others) that the Blue Angel is 100% tube
> circuity?
It's a safe bet they never figured that aga would collectively bring up
the subject of what's under the epoxy. -Danny
Danny Russell
In the case of the Subway Rocket which has no 'verb, the Q's under
th'goop are for the FX-send and the record-out tone-shaping and lo-Z
buffer. -Danny
DEidelberg
th'goop are for the FX-send and the record-out tone-shaping and lo-Z
buffer. -Danny<<
I have a Subway Rocket Reverb which has 'verb. I thought the amp sounded a
little anemic by itself, but really good plugged into my 4x12. But, when
playing with my band during rehearsals, it really sounds quite good on its own.
Different from my Fenders, but good nonetheless.