Opinions on Torres Engineering kits
clin...@lse.fullfeed.com
volume/pull boost.
I recently tried a 65 Twin Reverb Reissue. It sounded much better
than my amp. It seemed more rich and sparkly compared to my amp. My
amp tends to sound too midrangey and dull. The sound quality
difference was like comparing a good stereo with a bad stereo. I
don't know if the difference is in my speakers and tubes or is it the
circuitry?
Torres Engineering has a kit they call the "Pre-CBS" kit which is
supposed to make your silverface amp sound like a vintage amp. Has
anyone used this kit? Is this kit just basically "blackfacing" your
amp or is it doing something different?
How about their "Super Overdrive" kit. How much gain and sustain do
you really get? A bluesy sound. A 70's hard rock sound? An 80's
metal sound?
NOSPAM...@dryden.net
and it's cool. Talk to them they are very helpful and will be able nail what
you want down and suggest options.
clin...@lse.fullfeed.com wrote in message
<370197b8...@nntp.lse.fullfeed.com>...
Buzz Tone
mare, the directions only guide you enough to really screw it up. I
think this is intentional so you'll mail it to him, for extra bucks. I
took the broken amp to J.F Naylor's store, and talked to Kyle and Joe
Naylor, they said there tech has had several people bring in their amps
with a failed Torres project. He also said they suck evan when
installed by there tech, Danny Russell (Blitz Amps). Later on I bought
a Princeton built by the master himself, Torres, the sound just wasn't
happening. It had been hot-rodded to 60 watts and had alot of the
push/pull knobs, and a dual stage master volume. Well the inside looked
as sloppy as the first five rows of a Gallager concert, I have photos I
wish I could post here. I hired Danny Russell to re-mod it, and he was
appaled at how "everything was wrong", I have photos of it after the
rebuid, looked alot like a new Naylor amp, and it is incredibly
tonefull.
coop
http://www.torresengineering.com/torresengineering/info.html
. I recommend contacting Dan Torres at his shop by phone or e-mail. He
could probably give you a much better solution, as he know what questions
to ask, and deals in specifics. There are many factors involved here, and
his advise is far more valuable than any kit you can get from him.
clin...@lse.fullfeed.com wrote:
> I own a 100 watt Fender Silverface Twin Reverb with a master
> volume/pull boost.
> I recently tried a 65 Twin Reverb Reissue. It sounded much better
> than my amp. It seemed more rich and sparkly compared to my amp. My
> amp tends to sound too midrangey and dull. The sound quality
> difference was like comparing a good stereo with a bad stereo. I
> don't know if the difference is in my speakers and tubes or is it the
> circuitry?
Could be settings; tube(s), a combination of things. Contact Torres w
specifics
> Torres Engineering has a kit they call the "Pre-CBS" kit which is
> supposed to make your silverface amp sound like a vintage amp. Has
> anyone used this kit? Is this kit just basically "blackfacing" your
> amp or is it doing something different?
> I know he recommends it for 80's type amps, not reissues. This isa
> couple of steps towards blackfacing the amp, but more is uswually
> needed (in the cases I've heard.).
> How about their "Super Overdrive" kit. How much gain and sustain do
> you really get? A bluesy sound. A 70's hard rock sound? An 80's
> metal sound?
My experience with these modications is dependant on your whole sound,
especially the guitar. The guitars w humbuckers have sounded beefy
(blues/70s) type of gain, while the single coils get a boost in the
higher frequencies, along with the mids. (since you say you don't want
more mids, I'm not sure this is the one for you-contact Torres with your
specifics) I recommend Torre's Fender to Marshall type mod for more gain,
along with a guitar mod if needed.
Easy,
Coop
Tremolux
>supposed to make your silverface amp sound like a vintage amp
Total bullshit. I recommend you stay FAR away from Torres and his bullshit
hack mods. This pre cbs kit is NOT a BF conversion kit, it's just a minor
re-voice of the preamp. What a crock of shit. Do a Deja News search on
"Torres" and read the horror stories.
>How about their "Super Overdrive" kit. How much gain and sustain do
>you really get?
More bullshit. Stay away from Torres bullshit.
*You can guess what to remove from my email address to get rid of the spam
block.*
*Valid Spam Targets:*
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*****
Ned Carlson
It had been hot-rodded to 60 watts and had alot of the
> push/pull knobs, and a dual stage master volume.
Hijo de la chingada!...Now how does *that* work, 60 watts out of
a Princeton? New transformers? 6550's?
Danny?
Well the inside looked
> as sloppy as the first five rows of a Gallager concert,
I gotta take Pepcid AC before I even *think* about that...
let alone think about that poor Princeton.. ;-)
I have photos I
> wish I could post here. I hired Danny Russell to re-mod it, and he was
> appaled at how "everything was wrong", I have photos of it after the
> rebuid, looked alot like a new Naylor amp, and it is incredibly
> tonefull.
Now, *that* doesn't surprise me.
--
Ned Carlson Triode Electronics "where da tubes are!"
2225 W Roscoe Chicago, IL, 60618 USA
ph 773-871-7459 fax 773-871-7938
12:30 to 8 PM CT, (1830-0200 UTC) 12:30-5 Sat, Closed Wed & Sun
<A HREF="http://www.triodeel.com">http://www.triodeel.com</A>
Tube and Tube Amp info on the net...<A
HREF="http://www.triodeel.com/tlinks.htm"> The Big Tube Links
Page!</A>
Danny Russell
>
> Buzz Tone wrote:
> It had been hot-rodded to 60 watts and had alot of the
> > push/pull knobs, and a dual stage master volume.
>
> Hijo de la chingada!...Now how does *that* work, 60 watts out of
> a Princeton? New transformers? 6550's?
>
> Danny?
I gotta think back, it's been about four years. The Torres inspiration
was apparently borrowed from the original Smith/Boogie amp. Different
trannies, (2)6L6GC, 12" speaker, gain linked preamp stages, etc. It
used a post-phase master that mostly sounded like squashed shit. A kind
assessment of the work quality would easily put it way beyond the
sloppiest I'd ever seen. It was beyond bad.
Buzz Tone
trying to install a Torres kit. The tranies were from a 60 watt Boogie
and a 60's Bassman, wonder where he gets all these parts, hmmmm?
Tremolux
>trying to install a Torres kit. The tranies were from a 60 watt Boogie
>and a 60's Bassman, wonder where he gets all these parts, hmmmm?
>
He probably got the trannies from some other hack-butcher operation. IMO, you
should stay the hell away from that guy, and don't even let your amp in the
same city as him.
je...@nospamop.net
>>Torres Engineering has a kit they call the "Pre-CBS" kit which is
>>supposed to make your silverface amp sound like a vintage amp
>
>Total bullshit. I recommend you stay FAR away from Torres and his bullshit
Thanks, Trem. I was getting a little worried that no one had popped
up to say something about this guy's mods. This ng was losing its
entertainment value :)
LOVELANDST
VINTAGE410
>From: je...@NOSPAMop.net
>Date: 4/5/99 1:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3708e9a4...@news.op.net>
Could someone enlighten us as to what part of Torres is "Bullshit" and what if
any part is legit? Torres's book was one of the first ones I bought many
moons ago and I found some good information in it. Of course I have several
other of the popular books and I would imagine there are some errors in each of
them. Wish I could get the corrections to each book I have. At any rate, as
we continue as a professional or hobbyiist with guitar amps, the learning
process will never end.
I'm very thankful that all this information is available now. It wasn't too
long ago that we would have had to search really hard to find what is so easily
obtained today. Not everyone is in agreement on all issues. Variety IS the
spice of life. I personally would have to give each of the persons who have a
book out there on guitar amps and such a lot of credit for trying. I know
that bad information can be worse than no information and places like this
board and others is where we can sort out the good from the bad.
If anyone has any specifics on the errors in any of the books currently
available, please post with the corrections, page numbers, etc. Particularly
if any of the authors who wrote the books visit these boards it would be nice
for you to post or email the correction that you are aware of. We pay some
good money for most books and deserve to have them corrected if need be.
I kow I'm concentrating on books here but I've heard several people slam dunk
Mr. Torres. I don't know him at all, just want to be fair with him as with
anyone. If he is indeed so God awful in the guitar amp business and everything
he has said or written about is "bullshit" or "garbage" then maybe I should
consider trashing his book. First, though, I'd like to hear the real deal from
a few people on the subject.
Sorry for the length, just don't want to base my decision on the remarks of a
couple disgruntled Torres customers. I'm all ears to whomever. Thanks, Terry
Charles Thomas
VINTAGE410 wrote:
> Could someone enlighten us as to what part of Torres is "Bullshit"
> Mr. Torres. I don't know him at all, just want to be fair with him as with
> anyone.
I think the main point of outrage is that Mr. Torres not only supports,
but actively practices, and sells modification kits to extensively (and
in many cases, irreversibly) modify and process valuable, limited-supply
vintage amplifiers into other amps.
The problem is that the amps he seems to favor hacking into are ones
that sound really damned good to start with.
If you want a "Van Halen Marshall Sound", or that "Pantera Metal
Shriek", or your "Metallica scooped-mid sound", or whatever then sell
that Blackface Super to someone who will love it, and buy a 5150,
Marshall JCM 900, or a Mesa Boogie. There's really no reason to hack up
collectible vintage amps to make them into amps that you can buy, IMHO.
CT
Jonathan Krogh
Charles Thomas wrote in message <370922A5...@facstaff.wiscDOTedu>...
Yeah really, why doesnt he invent 'improvement' kits for existing shit amps.
Imagine all the boutique amp builders out there going to extremes to
recreate pre 70's Fender glory, while Torres has been doing exactly the
opposite.
Randall Smith started out hacking small Fenders, but at least he had the
wherewithall to go ahead and do his own distinct product.
Tremolux
>available, please post with the corrections, page numbers, etc.
Do a Deja News search for "Pittman's Plops" to get a list of the errors in the
Groove Tubes book.
The main issue with Torres is his propensity to hack-butcher the holy fuck out
of a Fender to turn it into a hot rodded Mesa. If you have a Fender and it
just doesn't "get it" for you, then you need a different amp, not to butt-fuck
the Fender with dumbshit mods that KILL the resale value. General consensus
is that the workmanship and parts quality of his mods suck. From reports I've
read, his customer service is awful. Do a Deja News search on Torres while
you're at it.
Best to avoid the chop-shop modders.
Tremolux
>recreate pre 70's Fender glory, while Torres has been doing exactly the
>opposite.
Exactly. Torres gig seems to be to take an old vintage amp and try to turn it
into a modern high gain channel switching effects looped buzz machine with
cheap-shit sloppy mods. You can buy those kinds of amps brand new at Guitar
Center, Mesa Boogie is a prime example.
If Torres would just concentrate on building amps from scratch, and leave the
old Fenders the hell alone, I'd never bitch about that again.
>Randall Smith started out hacking small Fenders, but at least he had the
>wherewithall to go ahead and do his own distinct product.
Right. IMO, Randy's Boogies sound like shit, but at least he isn't butchering
up Fenders any more.
TBruton
>Date: 4/5/99 7:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <19990405195420...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
>
>>If anyone has any specifics on the errors in any of the books currently
>>available, please post with the corrections, page numbers, etc.
>
>Do a Deja News search for "Pittman's Plops" to get a list of the errors in
>the
>Groove Tubes book.
>
>The main issue with Torres is his propensity to hack-butcher the holy fuck
>out
>of a Fender to turn it into a hot rodded Mesa. If you have a Fender and it
>just doesn't "get it" for you, then you need a different amp, not to
>butt-fuck
>the Fender with dumbshit mods that KILL the resale value. General consensus
>is that the workmanship and parts quality of his mods suck. From reports
>I've
>read, his customer service is awful. Do a Deja News search on Torres while
>you're at it.
>
>Best to avoid the chop-shop modders.
>
>
>
>
>block.*
>
>*Valid Spam Targets:*
>fr...@ftc.gov
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>*****
Hi all,
I'm getting the picture now what all the fuss is about Torres. I agree that
vintage amps should be kept intact.. Guess some people just don't place much
value on things that they should. Growing up I always took care of my things
but one of my friends didn't give a rats ass about anything. Possibly Torres
fall into that category? I don't know.
Several years back when people were transforming Fenders into something else
that was before they became vintage. I remember in the sixties, a Fender amp
was just an amp, better than a lot of others out at the time but still just an
amp. They weren't considered vintage then and well ... through the years
they've become something special and worth preserving.
I agree wholeheartedly that if someone wants a totally different sound then buy
or build an amp designed for the purpose and leave the Fender as is. Terry
STRINGBEND
(VINTAGE410) writes:
>
>If anyone has any specifics on the errors in any of the books currently
>available, please post with the corrections, page numbers, etc.
Hi Vintage410:
I did reference specific errors (and I think I even included page numbers) for
the Torres book several months back. A DejaNews search should get it to you.
I think the book is worth having despite the errors, although Dave Funk's book
is even better.
My biggest gripe with Torres is that I emailed him with a couple of questions I
felt weren't addressed very well in the book and I got back a curt response.
My take on his response was that unless I was interested in buying something
from him (I already bought his expensive book) he didn't want anything to do
with me.
Take care,
STRINGBEND
Jordan Gilman
<clin...@lse.fullfeed.com> wrote in message
news:370197b8...@nntp.lse.fullfeed.com...
> I own a 100 watt Fender Silverface Twin Reverb with a master
> volume/pull boost.
> I recently tried a 65 Twin Reverb Reissue. It sounded much better
> than my amp. It seemed more rich and sparkly compared to my amp. My
> amp tends to sound too midrangey and dull. The sound quality
> difference was like comparing a good stereo with a bad stereo. I
> don't know if the difference is in my speakers and tubes or is it the
> circuitry?
>
> anyone used this kit? Is this kit just basically "blackfacing" your
> amp or is it doing something different?
>
> metal sound?
Great clean sound. Perhaps the resale value is killed but the CLEAN tone
sure isn't They sound good if they are done right. Better? That is a
matter of opinion. The distortion is good....not KILLER but it is useable.
Dan didn't put this togeather for me. I had someone locally do it. I'd
never touch a blackface but a silverface isn't 2 bad to butcher a bit. It
is not a solution for a mesa or marshall or anything like that... but the
clean tone is good!
jordan
Eric Stump
has his good points, too:
The man (the ACTUAL MAN, Dan Torres) is a wealth of info. Just call him
and ask him a question and you'll see.
He not only sells mods that "hot-rod" Fenders, but he also sells the
equipment and parts needed to modify you amp (be it a Fender, or
whatever), however you want it. In other words, if you know how to do
it, (see his book, below.), you can buy what you need to turn your
Fender INTO an "aged" sounding one, or, if an old one is too dead, to
brighten it up.
His book, Inside Tubes Amps, is an absolute MUST HAVE for anyone who
considers themselves a serious amp-head. It has so much information
about the workings, parts, modifications, etc, of ALL amps, as to be
indispensable.
Now, I agree that hacking up a Vintage Fender to make it sound like a
Mesa Boogie may not be the way to go, but, if it's YOUR AMP......YOU CAN
DO ANY DAMN THING YOU WANT TO IT!
IMHO, of course.
Eric
DS
my early intro to tubes. I now have a better idea of what in the book
is useful and what is questionable.
I don't expect to purchase a book that is 100% accurate, especially when
some of the content boils down to personal taste and opinion. If you
only knew the deficiencies the textbooks carry from gradeschool through
college.
Thanks to the folks for their opinions; especially when we don't have
the experience to form them ourselves.....but a word to others like me:
keep listening and never judge early. What is "early"? You decide.
Don't form opinions soley based on those of others.
DS
Tremolux
>has his good points, too:
Oh? I've spoken to him socially, and he is pleasant enough.
>The man (the ACTUAL MAN, Dan Torres) is a wealth of info. Just call him
>and ask him a question and you'll see.
>
Uhh, let's see here... My friend went into his shop with a couple questions
regarding some stuff he had already bought from Torres. The answer he received
allegedly was "we are in the business of SELLING information". In other words,
answers will cost more money.
>He not only sells mods that "hot-rod" Fenders,
You mean fuck-up Fenders.
>but he also sells the
>equipment and parts needed to modify you amp (be it a Fender, or
>whatever),
Lots of guys sell parts, but they don't encourage you to hack-butcher your amp
with them.
>you can buy what you need to turn your
>Fender INTO an "aged" sounding one,
Most Fenders worth having are already "aged".
>or, if an old one is too dead, to
>brighten it up.
That's called general servicing. You know, like cap jobs, biasing, etc.
>His book, Inside Tubes Amps, is an absolute MUST HAVE for anyone who
>considers themselves a serious amp-head.
Bullshit. You getting paid for this or are you that gullable?
>Now, I agree that hacking up a Vintage Fender to make it sound like a
>Mesa Boogie may not be the way to go,
Finally you say something that makes sense.
>but, if it's YOUR AMP......YOU CAN
>DO ANY DAMN THING YOU WANT TO IT!
Yes, if you're REALLY stupid.
>IMHO, of course.
>Eric
Of course.
epgu...@cajunnet.com
<cth...@facstaff.wiscDOTedu> wrote:
>
>VINTAGE410 wrote:
>> Could someone enlighten us as to what part of Torres is "Bullshit"
>> I've heard several people slam dunk
>> Mr. Torres. I don't know him at all, just want to be fair with him as with
>> anyone.
As I understand, not much in his "Pre-CBS" kit actually brings your
circuit back to an actual AB763 circuit. It only modifies the existing
circuit to sound like what Dan TOrres believes is the sound of
blackface amps. As I understand, those mods make your amp a lot
brighter, which may or may not be desireable.
As for his more radical mods, taking a good fender amp and reworking
it to have all these boogie like features with cascading gain stages
really defeats the purpose of having a fender in the first place.
Randall Smith did it years ago, but there was nothing else out at the
time. Right now, you can buy a used Peavey 5150 head for about 400
bucks or less and get all of that high gain buzzsaw tone you want, if
you want.
Buzz Tone
about the workings, parts, modifications, etc, of ALL amps, as to be
indispensable.
I looked thru it at a guitar show, it's lame, mostly encourages a
novice to fix whats not broke, hey for a laugh, does anyone remember
when he offerd autographed copies! He should have signed it A. Shyster
"the ACTUAL MAN, Dan Torres) is a wealth of info. Just call him and ask
him a question and you'll see."
I did, quite a few times, he's very interesting, and I wonder if anyone
else knew that he was in the recording studio when Santana recorded
Abraxis, and he was also at the Studio with the Stones in 69 when they
recorded Brown Sugar. Now, I know it is possible, but is it plausable?
Maybe he has a little problem with lying? This conversation ended up
with me buying a hot-rodded Princeton just like Carlos', hmm, (See
Buzztone's and Danny Russell's previously posted statements about this
UNHOLY SHIT RAG OF AN AMP.
Did anyone read the review of his custom amp in Guitar Player, they
didn't like it. They said the distortion was thin, and brite, with an
attack like a SS amp, either on or off. That's not their exact words,
but sums it up fairly. Also to note are how the knobs protrude
ackwardly out making them a gigging nightmare. It's very ugly, I've
seen one in person.
This guy couldn't be more balls out a con man than if he slitherd down a
tree with an apple. Open your eyes, read whats on your dollar, "In God
We Trust". All others must prove themself trustworthy.
Buzz Tone
Pete
> Buzz Tone wrote:
> It had been hot-rodded to 60 watts and had alot of the
> > push/pull knobs, and a dual stage master volume.
>
> Hijo de la chingada!...Now how does *that* work, 60 watts out of
> a Princeton? New transformers? 6550's?
wow, randy smith did that what, nearly 30 years ago? that's how mesa
boogie was started.
Pete
|=>SonicVision<=|
begin with? Torre's has improved upon this? How so? I'm just wondering
why you felt a need to do anything in the first place.
Tremolux
>circuit back to an actual AB763 circuit. It only modifies the existing
>circuit to sound like what Dan TOrres believes is the sound of
>blackface amps.
Correct. The Torres "Pre-CBS" kit does NOTHING AT ALL to convert an amp to
blackface. It's simply a torres re-voice of the preamp and tone stack, which
CBS didn't change in the first place. Hence, it's total misleading bullshit.
>As for his more radical mods, taking a good fender amp and reworking
>it to have all these boogie like features with cascading gain stages
>really defeats the purpose of having a fender in the first place.
AND, it's just plain stupid.
Torres makes his money off stupid people.
Tremolux
>> a Princeton? New transformers? 6550's?
Yep. Stock Princeton trannies and 6V6s will never get you anywhere near 60
Watts. This mod is a severe hack-butcher example.
>wow, randy smith did that what, nearly 30 years ago? that's how mesa
>boogie was started.
Right. However, the difference is that Randy no longer hack-butchers Fenders
into Boogies. Torres still does.
Eric Stump
tieing YOU down and hot-rodding (uh, sorry, I mean "fucking up") YOUR
Fenders? That must really suck.
Are you telling me you haven't modded ANYTHING you own?? No after-stock
pickups, no tubes other than what the MANUFACTURER uses (Sovtek, for
Fenders), shit, If you've got anything other than Fender or Gibson
strings on you Fender or Gibson guitar, you're "fucking it up!"
Grow up. It's a free country. I'm sure Torres can survive without your
business.
Eric Stump
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. The book IS a wealth of info,
even if it's just for learning how to service (not "hot-rod") your own
amps, which I happen to prefer to do than pay someone else mega bucks,
when it's a very simple procedure.
I've never met the man personally, but from what you say, he could very
well be a bit of a...uh...lier. Maybe, maybe not. If I had been there at
that show with you, I might very well have garnered the same opinion. I
have only dealt with him over the phone, and he has been very helpful.
As far as his amps go, you're correct...his stock amp that Guitar Player
tested did not sound good, in their opinion. I'd certainly rather have a
Fender Vibro King, myself. But, I have also read many testimonials from
people who ordered CUSTOM amps from Torres, and they love them. I guess
it's all just what you're looking for...
Eric
Buzz Tone
>Right. However, the difference is that Randy no
>longer hack-butchers Fenders into Boogies. >Torres still does.
In fact they do, maybe not Randy himself, but I called there a couple
times about two years ago and talked to Mike Bendinelli, the cheif tech.
He said that if I sent them a Princeton and transformers from a Dual
Showman, that they would build me a replica of the early 67' -70' era
hot rodded Princeton. They also offered to use their own 60 watt Boogie
transformers. So, they still build custom amps, yes "hacking up those
poor old Fenders".
Jonathan Krogh
actually opting to buy a boogie?
Well i guess they might if its to get that exact early boogie mod tone,
ala.. ummm Santana?
Build your damn amps from scratch I say.
Buzz Tone wrote in message
<21337-37...@newsd-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
|=>SonicVision<=|
offers to make certain mods to Mesa/Boogie stuff. If you ask about
changes/mods Mesa will connect you with Mike.
Danny Russell
>
> In fact they do, maybe not Randy himself, but I called there a couple
> times about two years ago and talked to Mike Bendinelli, the cheif tech.
> He said that if I sent them a Princeton and transformers from a Dual
> Showman, that they would build me a replica of the early 67' -70' era
> hot rodded Princeton. They also offered to use their own 60 watt Boogie
> transformers. So, they still build custom amps, yes "hacking up those
> poor old Fenders".
That's all they want is an amp and transformers? No money or thai
weed? -Danny
Alan Thompson
reversible pickup change, for that matter) are not MODS.
A.T.
Alan Thompson
Marshall amp, Torres himself took the call and was quite rude. Not the way to go
about business in my opinion. Also, back when Tesla was out of business, I ordered
three Tesla 12ax7's from Torres, I was told they were Ruby's (meaning tested tubes)
for $13 a piece. What I received was three highly microphonic Teslas in white
boxes with "12ax7" hand written on them, definitely not Ruby's and definitely not
tested. They were unusable in any application. After my experience, I will have
nothing further to do with them.
A.T.
Danny Russell
>
> I'd like to add that I once called Torres Engineering with a question about my
> Marshall amp, Torres himself took the call and was quite rude. Not the way to go
> about business in my opinion. Also, back when Tesla was out of business, I ordered
> three Tesla 12ax7's from Torres, I was told they were Ruby's (meaning tested tubes)
> for $13 a piece. What I received was three highly microphonic Teslas in white
> boxes with "12ax7" hand written on them, definitely not Ruby's and definitely not
> tested. They were unusable in any application. After my experience, I will have
> nothing further to do with them.
Seems like when you get some good JJ/Tesla 12AX7, then they're really
good. When you get some bad ones, then they're really bad. -Danny
Alan Thompson
of but weren't being made at the time (Tesla had shut down, this is prior to the
reorganization that led to the current JJ product). They were hard to get at the time,
and I expected to get tested Ruby versions, but obviously they sent me their rejects.
Bad business.
A.T.
Ren Hoek
ordered from him several times and have been pleased with both the service
and the merchandise.
Alan Thompson wrote in message <3711A6C7...@worldnet.att.net>...
Alan Thompson
in answering. I was at the time considering purchasing some parts from him, his
attitude convinced me to stay away from his business. That was my experience,
yours may have been different.
A.T.