Any reason to not buy a Bugera amp?

[notbob]

I may buy a Bugera V5:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/V5Infinium

Seems to me it would be better to buy a complete working tube amp
rather than a maybe tube kit. The V5 Bug costs less than any working
kit I've been able to find.

Any GOOD reason to not buy this box? ;)

nb

[notbob]

Too late!!

I bought it. ;)

nb

[Pt]

Post a review.

Pt

[Les Cargill]

notbob wrote:
> On 2016-01-08, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>> I may buy a Bugera V5:
>>
>> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/V5Infinium
>>
>> Seems to me it would be better to buy a complete working tube amp
>> rather than a maybe tube kit.

You're not kidding. And price an old Champ while you're at it.

>> The V5 Bug costs less than any working
>> kit I've been able to find.
>>
>> Any GOOD reason to not buy this box? ;)
>
> Too late!!
>
> I bought it. ;)
>
> nb
>

So how is it? I bet it's cool through a big speaker.

--
Les Cargill

[notbob]

On 2016-01-08, Les Cargill <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote:

> So how is it? I bet it's cool through a big speaker.

I gotta wait a few days. Sweetwater is out of stock, so we're both
waiting. They'll notify me when it's sent.

nb

[notbob]

On 2016-01-08, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:

Shipped, today. I expect it about mid next week. I'll get back here
with a review, though not sure what I can tell all you "experts". ;)

nb

[Lord Valve]

Is it worth what it cost you? That's your call.
Is it a piece of quality gear? Fuck no, it ain't...
it's Chinese crappola, and I've taken enough of them
apart to know what I'm talking about.

Lord Valve, ThD
Expert (fuck you if you don't like it)

[notbob]

On 2016-01-08, Les Cargill <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote:

> So how is it? I bet it's cool through a big speaker.

I got no big spkrs, but I did find this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoFQvVTqWtI

nb

[Pt]

5 watts is not giggable.
Does it have a line out?

Pt

[Army of 7]

The important thing is, do you like the sound, and is it a good value for your money. Behringer makes professional quality gear at the high end that is used by lots of people. The Bugera is very inexpensive and should be treated like something that is not as rugged as a higher priced piece of gear. You seem to be someone who is just getting your feet wet with real tube amps; you are not going on a world tour, your needs are different from someone who is moving the amp around a lot. Let it cool down after playing it before moving it. Let it warm to room temperature before turning it on especially if it is coming in from a really cold environment, that can cause condensation. Sweet water has a good return policy, with inexpensive gear it's essential, so don't worry. Don't let people rain on your parade for being on a limited budget. You can upgrade later, work on your playing. One last thing, I'm a fan of buying quality used gear. that can be hard or easy depending on where you live. Check Craigslist and local shops, even Ebay can work out well. Many musicians are like you, on a limited budget, and some buy and sell gear compulsively.

[notbob]

On 2016-01-08, Pt <pea...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Does it have a line out?

Apparently.

The 8" stock spkr is plugged into the amp via a cable with a
1/4" plug. Changing spkrs is as simple as un/plugging a cable.

nb

[notbob]

On 2016-01-08, Army of 7 <m2a...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The important thing is, do you like the sound, and is it a good
> value for your money.

Haven't heard it. That's the one drawback to being remote and having
to buy online.

> is just getting your feet wet with real tube amps; you are not going
> on a world tour, your needs are different from someone who is moving
> the amp around a lot.

Ima old geezer that's been floggin' frets since the early 60s. Too
old fer touring, but been playing thru both SS and tube amps since
'64. I've owned both tube and SS bass amps, a MB MkIIb (100W!), and
currently, a SS Mustang I. I'm not so much a tone freak as I am an
techie. I jes wanted a tube amp.

> Let it cool down after playing it before
> moving it. Let it warm to room temperature before turning it on
> especially if it is coming in from a really cold environment, that
> can cause condensation. Sweet water has a good return policy, with
> inexpensive gear it's essential, so don't worry.

Great tips. Thnx!

> Don't let people rain on your parade for being on a limited budget.

Like I care.

> You can upgrade later, work on your playing.

BINGO!

> One last thing, I'm a fan of buying quality used gear. that can be
> hard or easy depending on where you live. Check Craigslist and
> local shops, even Ebay can work out well. Many musicians are like
> you, on a limited budget, and some buy and sell gear compulsively.

I usta live in the San Francisco Bay Area, so know about "used" and
the cheap vs quality thing. Now, high in the CO Rockies, it's a lot
harder to find deals, so I went new. This thing looks like a good
place to start. I was gonyna buy a DIY kit, but they are all waaay
more costly than this cheapo V5 Bug. ;)

nb

[notbob]

On 2016-01-08, Lord Valve <ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:

> it's Chinese crappola, and I've taken enough of them
> apart to know what I'm talking about.

Great! Then you know what upgrades I need to improve this lil' amp.
I'll be looking forward to yer "expert" advice. ;)

nb

[Army of 7]

Google or Youtube modding Bugera V5. Lot's of people are doing it.

[Lord Valve]

On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 12:48:45 PM UTC-7, twatboob wrote:

> On 2016-01-08, Lord Valve <FuckYou@sshole> wrote:
>
> > it's Chinese crappola, and I've taken enough of them
> > apart to know what I'm talking about.
>
> Great! Then you know what upgrades I need to improve this lil' amp.
> I'll be looking forward to yer "expert" advice. ;)
>
> nb

Well, seein' as how yer a "musician," here ya go:

I don't recommend polishing Chinese turds. For
people who aren't smart enough to listen to
reason, there's always the Mercury Magnetics
V5-O output transformer, at only $170. Might
as well do the power tranny while we're in there,
the MercMag V5-P, another $170. So, um, lemme
see here...$340 for transformers, $200 for the
amp; your turd isn't fully polished yet and we're
already at $540. (That's just for parts - I'm
not installin' that shit fer free, y'know.) So,
what's next? Well, they describe that one as an
"all tube" amp, so...pretty good idea to shit-can
the Chinese glass it comes with and put something
decent in there. On the cheaper end of things we
have a JJ EL84 and a current-production Tung-Sol
12AX7. That's about 33 bucks worth of glass. You
could step up to a Tungsram 12AX7 for about $150,
from Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio. (I have 'em, too,
but I don't sell to AGAtard assholes any more...)
Kevin sells to assholes (audiophools) all the time,
and his stuff is first-rate. I'm sure you can find
some on e-bait for less,, but most of the stuff on
e-bait is crap that's been sold and resold by dozens
of people who buy them, find out they're shit, and
put 'em back on e-bait so they can move on down the
line. Really a fabulous-sounding tube, if you get a
good one. Very scarce now. Or you could go with a NOS
Beijing Silver Special, which you may be able to find
for around $50. I've been known to install those in
the amps of some rather accomplished guitarists who
you may have heard of. Also fairly scarce these days.
And then there's the stupid-expensive stuff like
smooth-plate diamond bottom Telefunkens; a good one
is going to set you back $200 if one can be had. I
wouldn't put anything special in that thing as far
as the power tube goes - the JJ will be fine, and
you're not going to hear the difference between that
and a $100-$300 NOS Mullard or any other snob glass.
So say you go with a NOS Beijing Silver Special at
$50 and a JJ EL84 at $15; that puts you at $605 and
your turd is beginning to shine softly. Let's not
forget your contribution to the Fat Willie Home for
Fat Willie (my favorite charity), since I ain't no
philanthropist and I don't work for free. Call it
about an hour to install the two trannies and the
tubes: $75. Now you're at $680 for your freshly-shined
little Chinese turd...and you could've had a Silverface
Fender Champ for $350 - $550. (In fact, I just sold one
to another shop for $325 last week; the proprietor
was, however, a friend of mine...) But we're not
finished yet...I don't really know all that much about
the Turdosound (typo intentional) 8" your piece of
sonic poo comes with, so if it's not up to snuff I'd
install the *very* best Champ-type speaker on the planet,
the Weber CVC8. About $50. Lookin' like $730 now. Ouch.
Of course, there are both lesser and greater degrees of
luster for your turd. Could skip the MercMag power
tranny, for instance. The Chinese power tranny is garbage,
but not as garbagey as the Chinese output tranny. That's
*gotta* go.

BTW - "all tube"? Not so: plenty of three-legged fuses,
integrated circuits and other sand in that thing. The
reverb's digital, and sounds it. But like I said - I
don't recommend polishing that particular turd. It is
what it is, and you should just let it be what it is
until you're ready for a real amp.

[notbob]

On 2016-01-08, Lord Valve <ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, seein' as how yer a "musician," here ya go:

Thank you.

Not like I'm gonna spend all that $$$$ on sed turd, but I did save yer
suggestions for which/what brand of polish I might purchase. ;)

nb

[Les Cargill]

Not good :)

--
Les Cargill

[Army of 7]

This thread's subject is close to my interests as an *amateur* musician and *amateur* tech who has also owned lots of gear as a hobby. It would be helpful if you defined your short and longer term goals. For the best tone and versatility at the price point you are considering currently, I would recommend a Vox with the valve reactor circuit. The amp really does have a valve feel to it, and I have seen pro's gig with the Voxes. I saw a Beatles tribute band who were using the early floorboard version and the tones they got were like an encyclopedia of the lads' recorded catalogue. The amp I own is Guitar Player magazine editor's pick, super light, durable, super loud, and sounds insanely good. It's the tone of a tube amp cranked, when you can't.

For pro industry standard at the best price I'd rock Peavey. I've owned Delta Blues and Valveking amps. The new Valve King 2 looks really interesting. And they still make the Delta Blues, it's longevity is testament to how well it's been received. My favorite map, Id have to say, after a real Fender Vibrolux Reverb which I wish I still had.
If your a tweaker, like me, I'd recommend the Fender Champion 600. Easy to mod and taste test one change at a time. First, defeat the tone stack/ scoop for more gain. Cheap components. Then, preamp tube. A *butt ugly* real RCA backplate from Audio Tubes is only like $12. Then, power tube. Then, speaker. Then, if needed, output transformer. For those i'd say bypass your local Rocky Mountain hwackadoodle and peruse Antique Electron Supply, in AZ. They ship quick, and the website is very user friendly, and informative for those who do it themselves. They also have books on tube amp building and design. Dan Torres is not highly regarded but his entry level book on tube amps is great. He really captures the 'whole is greater than the sum of it's parts' aspect of tone, and explains and demystifies it.
The self appointed guru mentality really gets my goat; as evidenced by your comment about not having anything to offer to the 'experts', it's often the loudest people with no humility whatsoever whose heads are stuck up their own butts who have the least to offer, and discourage others from contributing what they can. Consider that those people 'have a horse in the race', as the whack job down the street from you, who wants to sell you on the idea that it's either Bugera ( which he shits on, but vast numbers of musicians, yes, real working, or hobbyist,or young, musicians buy and use their gear, stock. Also, many people do mod them) OR the gourmet end, which quintuples the price. You can do mods and find upgrade parts very economically to start. Antique has parts for every price point, and virtually any upgrade will make a discernible improvement. More so, to my mind on the Fender Champion 600. Start with mod which defeats the preset mid scoop; less than $10. Then, tubes and speaker, less than $100. You'll have a beast that you worked on yourself that rocks.

[Army of 7]

https://youtu.be/VsbPzskooRA

[Army of 7]

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/speakers?filters=Size=6 inch

[Army of 7]

https://youtu.be/nENWWLrFmPY

[Lord Valve]

On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 3:03:31 PM UTC-7, Corporal Cheeze-butt farted:
> On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 1:48:30 PM UTC-8, Lizard Shit plopped:
> > On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 9:55:15 AM UTC-8, twatboob puked:

https://1pumplane.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/polish_a_turd_postcard.jpg

[Lord Valve]

Hell, I don't give a dead rat's ass if you like shitty gear; in
fact, I was pretty sure you would. My shop doesn't work on Bugera,
Crate, or any other cheeseball Chinese crap. And that also goes
for any of the garbage (like Marshall Valvestate) that has one
tube in it for marketing purposes. But hey - if you like it, you
like it. No skin off my fat ass, eh? We work on some gorgeous
stuff; we just did a High Power Tweed Twin for a dude. Those
amps cost a fortune; when you hear one in the flesh, you'll
know why. I built one for the same dude; he can't decide
which one he likes best. They sound different, but both are
kickass amplifiers. Entry-level gear is fine for entry-level
players, bedroom jammers, hobbyists and so forth. For serious
professional touring, you need something better. That's what
I deal in. I don't scorn the cats who walk in with Bugeras,
Crates, etc. - I give 'em a phone number they can call to
get in touch with a dude who's good at fixing stuff like
that. He sends stuff my way, too. But if I'm asked for my
opinion, I give it, and I'm not gentle about it. Shit is
shit, period. That's why it's cheap. If you like cheap-shit
gear, fine. I don't.

Lord Valve, ThD
Expert (fuck you)

[notbob]

On 2016-01-09, Les Cargill <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote:

> Not good :)

What?

That I got no large spkrs or that 5W thru a 2X or 4X cab is not
louder? I'll shamelessly answer either question. ;)

nb

[Army of 7]

On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 7:47:51 PM UTC-8, Lord Valve wrote:
> On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 2:48:30 PM UTC-7, Army of 7 wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 9:55:15 AM UTC-8, notbob wrote:
> > > On 2016-01-08, Lord Valve <ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well, seein' as how yer a "musician," here ya go:
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > Not like I'm gonna spend all that $$$$ on sed turd, but I did save yer
> > > suggestions for which/what brand of polish I might purchase. ;)
> > >
> > > nb
> >
> > This thread's subject is close to my interests as an *amateur* musician and *amateur* tech who has
also owned lots of gear as a hobby. It would be helpful if you defined your short and longer term goals. For the best tone and versatility at the price point you are considering currently, I would recommend a Vox with the valve reactor circuit. The amp really does have a valve feel to it, and I have seen pro's gig with the Voxes. I saw a Beatles tribute band who were using the early floorboard version and the tones they got were like an encyclopedia of the lads' recorded catalogue. The amp I own is Guitar Player magazine editor's pick, super light, durable, super loud, and sounds insanely good. It's the tone of a tube amp cranked, when you can't.
> >

Most people can't afford stuff like that. The elite, whether touring pros, or orthodontists who can't play their way out of a wet paper bag, but have special rooms where they can turn up their boutique toys, are your little niche. I have had some nice point to point amps, and some great sounding production amps, and some really good modelers. To me, the crowd can't tell at all, the other players don't give a rat's ass, except the other guitar players, lots of freakin' *amazing* pickers play Peavey solid state amps, and it's about pleasing one person for the most part, the player. Most players need to please the mortgage lender, the wife, etc. more than their ears. If I still had my Vibrolux Reverb, It'd be cool. I also really want another Delta Blues, the one I bought through Ebay for $125 was a great amp. I could buy one, but don't want to spend the money right now. The Twin Reverb on my RP350, through good monitors, is what i play most of the time fro practice. It sounds great. I could have bought a boutique tweed twin with verb that was listed on Craigslist recently, but it doesn't fit into my needs at this time. Most of the pros I see that are really good but not making big dollars like a touring pro play mexican made fenders. Even touring pros play them and leave the killer amps at home. To heck with your cork sniffing Aspen catering attitude. Anyone who isn't a sucker for your snake oil is a target for your urine stream. Fortunately you're missing the target(s)- keep practicin', chump!

[Lord Valve]

On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 9:59:06 PM UTC-7, corporal Cheeze-Butt, deluded minion of the Army of No-Blowers, haughtily pronounced:

> Most people can't afford stuff like that. The elite, whether touring pros, or orthodontists who can't play their way out of a wet paper bag, but have special rooms where they can turn up their boutique toys, are your little niche. I have had some nice point to point amps, and some great sounding production amps, and some really good modelers. To me, the crowd can't tell at all, the other players don't give a rat's ass, except the other guitar players, lots of freakin' *amazing* pickers play Peavey solid state amps, and it's about pleasing one person for the most part, the player. Most players need to please the mortgage lender, the wife, etc. more than their ears. If I still had my Vibrolux Reverb, It'd be cool. I also really want another Delta Blues, the one I bought through Ebay for $125 was a great amp. I could buy one, but don't want to spend the money right now. The Twin Reverb on my RP350, through good monitors, is what i play most of the time fro practice. It sounds great. I could have bought a boutique tweed twin with verb that was listed on Craigslist recently, but it doesn't fit into my needs at this time. Most of the pros I see that are really good but not making big dollars like a touring pro play mexican made fenders. Even touring pros play them and leave the killer amps at home. To heck with your cork sniffing Aspen catering attitude. Anyone who isn't a sucker for your snake oil is a target for your urine stream. Fortunately you're missing the target(s)- keep practicin', chump!

My goodness. I suspect the only reason the Alien Lizard Commandos
haven't punched your ticket yet is that they can't wade their way
through all that crap-ass modeler tone to find you. Was there some
part of "Shit is shit, period. That's why it's cheap. If you like
cheap-shit gear, fine. I don't" you failed to connect with? You like
what you like; it's not my place to tell you not to like it. Same
goes for everyone I deal with. There *is* a reason my shop's been
open for 36 years; I'm not at all surprised neither you nor any other
AGAtard knows what it is. Clue: I just hired another tech. Crawl down
the hole to your DUMB and figure it out, asswipe.

[Les Cargill]

For whatever reason, the guy's demo sounds bad. There are "brightening"
mods on the TDPRI page.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/shock-brothers-diy-amps/457895-tweaking-bugera-v5-circuit.html



--
Les Cargill

[notbob]

On 2016-01-10, Les Cargill <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote:

> For whatever reason, the guy's demo sounds bad. There are "brightening"
> mods on the TDPRI page.
>
> http://www.tdpri.com/forum/shock-brothers-diy-amps/457895-tweaking-bugera-v5-circuit.html

Great tips and info. Thank you.

nb

[notbob]

I've read all the "V5 club" posts on tdpri, including the above link.

Appears most of the "Bug's" problems can be solved with a circuit
modification, locally known (tdpri v5 club), as the "bright cap" mod,
which conveniently follows:


"Add a bright cap across both the gain pot and volume pot. This is the
major problem causing the muddiness. Many amps have these and it
beyond me as to why the circuit designers left these caps off. Anytime
there is a signal crossing a 1m pot, and the pot is less then maxed,
its going to attenuate those higher frequencies. Installing a small
cap across the lugs of the pot fixes that problem. In this case on the
Bugera V5, you need to flip the circuit board upside down to add the
caps to the two center lugs of the pots. The two outer lugs are
ground. I'm using 220pf for both the gain and volume. Depending on how
bright you want it to sound is up to you. Anything from 100pf - 500pf
will be a good choice. Higher the value of cap, the brighter the
tone. Keep in mind the more the pot is turned up, the less influence
the bright cap will have. With the pot maxed, the cap is obsolete and
out of the circuit."


It's the easiest and cheapest ($4-$5), but not usually attempted by
ppl who've never soldered.

The general consensus for tube/spkr mods seems to consist of replacing
the pre-amp 12ax7 with a Tung-Sol tube and the EL84 pwr tube with a JJ
or Sovetek, plus subbing a "chemp" (Emi 820H) or Celestron
something-or-other spkr. Rat Amps suggests the Emi Eight-15 spkr,
which I've yet to see discussed on the tdpri/v5 club thread, though
one lone poster did mention it. I plan to bring it up.

LV, I'd love to hear yer take on this info I've most recently
learned. Jes' the facts, ma'am. ;)

nb

[west]

Lord Valve wrote:

> Entry-level gear is fine for entry-level
> players, bedroom jammers, hobbyists and so forth. For serious
> professional touring, you need something better.

For serious playing, period.

[Lord Valve]

As I said in my post upthread, the place to start is with the
glass, and I recommended (on the cheap end of things) a Tung-Sol
12AX7 and a JJ EL84. If you want to use a Sovtek EL84, there
are a whole pile of different ones made in the Xpo-Pul/Reflektor
plant in Saratov; not all of them say "Sovtek" on them. You have
the Tung-Sol, Mullard, Genalex "Gold Lion", EH and Sovtek (two
different types). The two types branded "Sovtek" are the EL84/6BQ5
and the EL84M/6BQ5WA. My pick for the best tone out of all of
those is also the cheapest: the Sovtek EL84/6BQ5. They don't last
as long as the others, though, so it's a trade-off of tone vs.
service lifetime. The more expensive (but rather stodgy-sounding)
EL84M/6BQ5WA will sound fairly average for a long, long time. ;-)
The Mullard sounds pretty good, but the Genalex doesn't sound like
it ought to cost that much (it's the most expensive.) Haven't heard
the Tung-Sol, so I can't comment on that one. In second place, and
a good value for its good service lifetime, I'd put the Electro-
Harmonix. Excellent tone, good lifetime. Because of the crappy
Chinese iron, you won't hear a huge difference between different
output tubes anyway.

Whether or not you'll like the bright cap mod will depend on what
kind of speaker you have in it. Since caps in the pF range are a
whole lot cheaper than speakers, I'd go that route first. If you
get what you're looking for that way, fine...don't spring for a
speaker. And you can always make the bright caps switchable, but
you may have to experiment with the lead dress for the switch wires
to keep the amp from humming.

I've already said the best 8" speaker for a low-powered amp is
the Weber CVC-8; not a lot of people know about this one, but
then, not a lot of people knew about the DT-10, either. Ahem.

Bottom line: the OPT in this amp is fucking *crap*. It's all
turd-polishing until you deal with that. If you manage to get
your turd shiny enough to live with without springing for good
iron, bully for you. ;-)

[Army of 7]

Antique has an economical general purpose upgrade tranny that will definitely improve the tone a huge amount. You don't need Mercury Magnetics transformers or Weber speakers to make a HUGE improvement. That little 10% improvement of caviar components is great for when that's your goal, but costs many times what it's worth. He's still basically calling you stupid for 'polishing a turd'. The real turd, which he spit shines hourly, is his overgrown ego. The cork and butt sniffing bs put out by this piece of work is appalling.
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-T31

[Army of 7]

Soldering is pretty easy to learn. Instructables and Youtube are chock full of lessons; ditto all the other operations involved with modding. Definitely do that mod.
I'd recommend this speaker- https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-A-G8C-15-8
Tung-sol 12ax7 https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/T-12AX7-TUNG
EL84's- I'd start with an EH https://www.tubesandmore.com/search/node/el84

[Army of 7]

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 3:55:38 PM UTC-8, notbob wrote:

One more comment, regarding mr "not many people know about this thing" (referring to the Weber speaker he picked as THE VERY BEST CHAMP SPEAKER ON THE PLANET, disregarding that Weber makes a variety of 8" speakers and that ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE WHAT IS THE BEST 8" SPEAKER ON THE PLANET)...I'd recommend the ceramic Blue Pup from Weber, if you go with a premium speaker (though the Celestion definitely shouldn't disappoint); for the V5 *which is NOT a Champ*, but designed with a more British voicing- http://www.tedweber.com/cpup8

[Lord Valve]

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 10:27:44 PM UTC-7, corporal Cheeze-Butt, clueless minion in the Army of No-Blowers, stepped on his dick and began to squeal thusly:

> On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 7:51:20 PM UTC-8, Lord Valve wrote:
> > On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 4:55:38 PM UTC-7, notbob wrote:
> > > On 2016-01-11, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
> > > > On 2016-01-10, Les Cargill <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> For whatever reason, the guy's demo sounds bad. There are "brightening"
> > > >> mods on the TDPRI page.
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.tdpri.com/forum/shock-brothers-diy-amps/457895-tweaking-bugera-v5-circuit.html

Your rocket scientist starts off by removing the RF bypass
cap from the input; if you enjoy listening to passing taxicab
radios or that 50KW religious station on the other side of
town while you're practicing, this is a great mod. ;-)

I've forgotten more about this shit than you could learn if you
live to be a hundred and ten, schmuck. FYI, the Weber I recommended
costs about $20 LESS than the Eminence Patriot you clueless fucks
are touting. And there *is* a reason people use MercMag iron, despite
the cost...but I don't expect you to know what it is, you tonedeaf
no-blowing mushroom. Let's just say that when you listen to your
favorite guitarists, odds are decent you're listening to a Merc.
And the odds aren't terrible that I installed it for him. I wouldn't
spend a fucking nickel trying to "improve" this screamin' piece of
chink shit. Save your money, buy an amp that not only kicks ass but
is made in AMERICA. (Insert another clueless rant from Wrinkles the
Clown here.)

Enjoy your turds, amateur. <puke>

https://1pumplane.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/polish_a_turd_postcard.jpg

Lord Valve, ThD
Expert (and fuck you if you don't like it)

[notbob]

On 2016-01-12, Lord Valve <ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:

> As I said in my post upthread, the place to start is with the
> glass, and I recommended (on the cheap end of things) a Tung-Sol
> 12AX7 and a JJ EL84. If you want to use a Sovtek EL84, there

> are a whole pile of different ones made......

The Sovtek was recommended by a single poster. I think he may have
been selling them on ebay. He was adament, but so were the legion of
posters who recommended the JJ's.

> a good value for its good service lifetime, I'd put the Electro-
> Harmonix.

That brand also has a large following.

> Whether or not you'll like the bright cap mod will depend on what
> kind of speaker you have in it.

Stock, initially. I can't afford a "chemp", but the Emi Eight-15 is
currently on sale at Sweetwater for a measly $29.

> Since caps in the pF range are a whole lot cheaper than speakers,
> I'd go that route first.

I plan to. Thnx fer the advice.

> you may have to experiment with the lead dress for the switch wires
> to keep the amp from humming.

Not sure what you mean by "lead dress". Like tinning the wires?

> I've already said the best 8" speaker for a low-powered amp is
> the Weber CVC-8; not a lot of people know about this one, but
> then, not a lot of people knew about the DT-10, either. Ahem.

I'll look closer into the Weber line.

> Bottom line: the OPT in this amp is fucking *crap*. It's all
> turd-polishing until you deal with that. If you manage to get
> your turd shiny enough to live with without springing for good
> iron, bully for you. ;-)

I'm jes a poor boy, so will not be doing any "snob" mods or $170
change-outs, anytime soon.

Fact is, I've always wanted to learn electronics and this is a good
beginning. Sorta my learn-as-ya'-burn electronics set. Plus, keeps me
from spending too much $$$$ on guitars and firearms. ;)

nb

[notbob]

On 2016-01-12, Army of 7 <m2a...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Soldering is pretty easy to learn. Instructables and Youtube are
> chock full of lessons; ditto all the other operations involved with
> modding. Definitely do that mod. I'd recommend this speaker-

> https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-A-G8C-15-8 Tung-sol 12ax7

> https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/T-12AX7-TUNG EL84's- I'd start

> with an EH https://www.tubesandmore.com/search/node/el84

Thnxs for all the links. I thought the Eight-15 was an Eminance
spkr. I'm so confused. ;)

nb

[notbob]

On 2016-01-12, Lord Valve <ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:

> Your rocket scientist starts off by removing the RF bypass
> cap from the input; if you enjoy listening to passing taxicab
> radios or that 50KW religious station on the other side of
> town while you're practicing, this is a great mod. ;-)

You are referring to the removal of C22, the 47pf cap??

While I make no claims to fame about being electronically savvy, I've
definitely heard that annoying "passing taxicab" RF interference. So,
yer saying do NOT remove C22?? ...or jes change its value?

I was hoping you would comment on this. I know spit about tube
electronics, so welcome all advice on the subject. At this point, I'm
only planning on the "bright cap" mod, but would love to hear yer
opinion on all these other recommended mods.

nb

[Lord Valve]

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 8:51:40 AM UTC-7, notbob wrote:

> On 2016-01-12, Lord Valve <FuckYou@sshole> wrote:
>

> > you may have to experiment with the lead dress for the switch wires
> > to keep the amp from humming.
>
> Not sure what you mean by "lead dress". Like tinning the wires?
>

"Lead dress" refers to how the wires are laid inside the
chassis. If you're going to put in switches and run wires
to the bright cap(s) it might make the amp oscillate if
the wires run across parts of the PCB where signal can
couple into the wires. Lead dress is an arcane science;
many times, oscillation is ultrasonic (too high for a
human to hear) so you may want to enlist Fido if you
don't have a scope; if Fido takes a powder or howls
when you turn the amp on (and you don't hear sound coming
out of it) then oscillation is what you have. Move the
wires around (with a poke stick, not your fingers) until
Fido shuts up. ;-)

[Lord Valve]

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 9:20:25 AM UTC-7, notbob wrote:

Leave C22 in place.

LV

[Universe]

On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:48:44 -0800 (PST), Lord Valve
<ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> http://www.tdpri.com/forum/shock-brothers-diy-amps/457895-tweaking-bugera-v5-circuit.html
>
>Your rocket scientist starts off by removing the RF bypass
>cap from the input; if you enjoy listening to passing taxicab
>radios or that 50KW religious station on the other side of
>town while you're practicing, this is a great mod. ;-)

Do you know what Miller Effect is? I don't suppose you'd know how to
calculate that even if you've heard of it. The effective Miller
capacitance at the input of a 12ax7 will be over 100pf, which is why
Fender, Marshall and almost any other amp you can name -has no cap
there-.

That's not to say that an extra 50pf will be harmful. The main
difference is that the input resistor is 22k, and the cap may have
been added to counter bad lead dress. I'd advise changing the
resistor upward and making sure that it's wired close to the grid.

>I've forgotten more about this shit

LOL! So you had a clue about electronics at one time then. Right.

>Let's just say that when you listen to your
>favorite guitarists, odds are decent you're listening to a Merc.
>And the odds aren't terrible that I installed it for him.

>Lord Valve, ThD
>Expert (and fuck you if you don't like it)

Ha! Your "big fish" stories keep getting bigger. Which famous
guitarists are you referring to, or (ahem) can't you say?

[Army of 7]

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 7:51:40 AM UTC-8, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-01-12, Lord Valve <ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As I said in my post upthread, the place to start is with the
> > glass, and I recommended (on the cheap end of things) a Tung-Sol
> > 12AX7 and a JJ EL84. If you want to use a Sovtek EL84, there
> > are a whole pile of different ones made......
>
> The Sovtek was recommended by a single poster. I think he may have
> been selling them on ebay. He was adament, but so were the legion of
> posters who recommended the JJ's.

I had a Peavey Delta Blues which had the stock tubes in it, which were I believe standard issue Sovtek; they sounded great. Also an old Gibson I tried Sovteks and also sounded great. I've never tried EH but read the Marshall forum about EL34's and people liked the EH vs JJ for more drive and compression as opposed to a louder full range tone. Good in a 50 watt, maybe not so much in a single ended EL84 scenario.

>
> > a good value for its good service lifetime, I'd put the Electro-
> > Harmonix.
>
> That brand also has a large following.
>
> > Whether or not you'll like the bright cap mod will depend on what
> > kind of speaker you have in it.
>
> Stock, initially. I can't afford a "chemp", but the Emi Eight-15 is
> currently on sale at Sweetwater for a measly $29.

Antique Electronic Supply has great prices, if you want parts for working on amps yourself I can't recommend highly enough ordering from them. I don't work for them and notwithstanding any issues I have with other businesses or people, you just can't go wrong. They cater to the do it yourselfer, and they carry books and kits for people into electronics, especially tube based electronics. Another great resource is YouTube. do a search for 'modding Bugera V5' and a whole list of videos will pop up, some with detailed examples of how the work was done, and a recorded demo of the finished product. I didn't have stuff like that when I was experimenting, just old amps to open up an work on (nothing wrong with that, but you just get a shortcut).
The V5 seems to have a more 'British' then American sound, i.e., Marshally sounding. A bright, Celestion (the brand used in Vox and Marshall amps) would I think be best, and add a bit of it's own overdrive to the tone. Weber makes a speaker called the' Ceramic Blue PUP' which is based on the tone of a Celestion blue speaker used in Vox amps. Touted as bright and aggressive sounding, I bet it would be perfect for the V5. I have some Webers and they are definitely worth the money and then some. They're only $39 but are currently out of stock. I would wait and spend the extra 10 for a Weber. The description reads as follows:" Bright, detailed, aggressive, lots of dynamics and bite, high end chime and ring."
The output transformer upgrade is worth doing, it will help a lot. The economical upgrade from Antique will add punch, bass, detail, extra brightness, everything. It's not caviar and cocaine, but it's more like steak vs a big mac. Never tried caviar, I'd probably hate it.... as for Cocaine, well, let's just leave that one alone, shall we?

[Army of 7]

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 7:51:40 AM UTC-8, notbob wrote:

I'm sure a Mercury transformer sounds great, btw, but is it worth it in the scheme of this amp? NO!

[Universe]

On 11 Jan 2016 23:55:36 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:

>On 2016-01-11, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-01-10, Les Cargill <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For whatever reason, the guy's demo sounds bad. There are "brightening"
>>> mods on the TDPRI page.
>>>
>>> http://www.tdpri.com/forum/shock-brothers-diy-amps/457895-tweaking-bugera-v5-circuit.html
>>
>> Great tips and info. Thank you.
>
>I've read all the "V5 club" posts on tdpri, including the above link.
>
>Appears most of the "Bug's" problems can be solved with a circuit
>modification, locally known (tdpri v5 club), as the "bright cap" mod,
>which conveniently follows:

Hi nb. The mods and comments at that link are rather odd. They're
adding bright caps everywhere possible, removing a cathode bypass cap
"to increase gain" (WTF? exactly opposite effect), and considering the
50pf cap on the input to be the source of treble loss? Not real
sound.

That circuit is dark primarily because of the tone stack. It's very
mid-heavy, not really treble-weak (there's a difference). If you
really want a brighter Fender-like sound, find a spot to install a
second pot and wire up a Fender tone stack in place of the current
rather crappy tone circuit. Forget the tinny treble caps everywhere.
And don't remove the cathode bypass cap (C13) unless you need to
-reduce- gain. The Fender stack will keep the gain structure under
control if you want brighter clean sounds.

The 50pf cap on the input won't roll off treble noticeably. I'm not
sure where they were getting that. As I was explaining to "The
Expert", given the 120 to 150pf Miller capacitance of the 12ax7 tube
itself, the usual approach to suppressing RF is simply to use a 68k
resistor in series with the input. Check schematics for Fender,
Marshall, everyone else: No 50pf caps. But don't worry about removing
the cap either.

Keep the 68k resistor close to the grid pin (btw, 68k is not a crucial
value. Anywhere in the neighborhood is fine, but the current 22k is
rather low)

Then plug into different speakers until you find one that sounds good
with the amp. Use that as point of comparison to find a decent speaker
that will fit the cab. An efficient speaker can get you a lot more
volume, and you can change the tonal character of the amp quite a bit.
If you get tired of the amp, swap the old speaker back in before you
put the amp on Ebay.

>"Add a bright cap across both the gain pot and volume pot. This is the
>major problem causing the muddiness. Many amps have these and it
>beyond me as to why the circuit designers left these caps off. Anytime
>there is a signal crossing a 1m pot, and the pot is less then maxed,

There is not that much reduction of high end by a 1Meg volume pot. If
that was the case, then Fender amps would all sound dark. The main
thing is the mid balance.

If you like the sound of Fender's "Bright" switch (I don't), then wire
one in, but I'd use a switch rather than hard-wiring it..

>The general consensus for tube/spkr mods seems to consist of replacing
>the pre-amp 12ax7 with a Tung-Sol tube and the EL84 pwr tube with a JJ
>or Sovetek, plus subbing a "chemp" (Emi 820H) or Celestron
>something-or-other spkr. Rat Amps suggests the Emi Eight-15 spkr,
>which I've yet to see discussed on the tdpri/v5 club thread, though
>one lone poster did mention it. I plan to bring it up.

Tube swaps will probably help, but I'd look at the speaker first.

>LV, I'd love to hear yer take on this info I've most recently
>learned. Jes' the facts, ma'am. ;)
>
>nb

I'm always curious about why anyone asks him about this stuff. He's
also loud and highly opinionated about politics, global warming, and
physics, but you wouldn't consult him about any of that. I hope.

Our dear PT Barnum doesn't play guitar, has no notion of how to gauge
dynamic response, and has no electronics chops to speak of. Not
everything he says is wrong, but he has posted some of the weirdest,
unsound advice that I've ever seen on this group.

[Army of 7]

Just found a video of a guy playing a V 5 through an AC30 cab. . Also, a guy who put a Mercury trans in a V5 ; )
https://youtu.be/cpUWyF_2P6s
https://youtu.be/bp4iQoajh5k

[Lord Valve]

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 11:10:40 PM UTC-7, Wrinkles the Clown pissed himself and then explained that it was the beer's fault:

Eat my shorts, asswipe. Fries with that?

[Rick N. Backer]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 01:10:38 -0500, Universe <Univ...@nospam.com>
wrote:

I've got three amps with Merc PTs and OTs and one even has a Merc
choke. And the bitch in Denver has never had her mitts inside one of
them. BTW, the guy who builds mine actually publishes his client
list. I don't think her highness in Denver installed any of their
transformers.

[Army of 7]

If I recall, not long after admitting Derek Trucks was no longer a client, he put up his sig with Derek at the top. It's a bunch of Aspen proctologists who ride Harleys one weekend a month and couldn't play their way out of a wet brown sack. Birds of a feather indeed.

[Universe]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 00:51:32 -0800 (PST), Army of 7 <m2a...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I suspect that a lot of the JoesTubeCo mods to that amp repeat the
'bright cap' wisdom from the TDPRI page. The resulting clean tones
with the treble jacked are often OK, but I really can't stand the
sound when overdriven--Those mods emphasize the hashy splatter of
the distorted tones' dissonant higher harmonics.

Nothing wrong with putting Mercury transformers in an amp, btw. It's a
different sound, more direct and up-front compared to cheap
transformers. I've got a bunch of beautiful old UTC's that I sometimes
swap into amps when I want that sound.

But of course that was not the OP's objective in buying the V5 for
cheap. So it's rather silly to think that he's going to spend 10x the
original amp price on expensive mods.

[Universe]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 05:59:51 -0800 (PST), Lord Valve
<ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 11:10:40 PM UTC-7, Wrinkles the Clown pissed himself and then explained that it was the beer's fault:
>> On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:48:44 -0800 (PST), Lord Valve
>> <FuckYou@sshole> wrote:
>>
>> > >> http://www.tdpri.com/forum/shock-brothers-diy-amps/457895-tweaking-bugera-v5-circuit.html
>> >
>> >Your rocket scientist starts off by removing the RF bypass
>> >cap from the input; if you enjoy listening to passing taxicab
>> >radios or that 50KW religious station on the other side of
>> >town while you're practicing, this is a great mod. ;-)
>>
>> Do you know what Miller Effect is? I don't suppose you'd know how to
>> calculate that even if you've heard of it. The effective Miller
>> capacitance at the input of a 12ax7 will be over 100pf, which is why
>> Fender, Marshall and almost any other amp you can name -has no cap
>> there-.
>>
>> That's not to say that an extra 50pf will be harmful. The main
>> difference is that the input resistor is 22k, and the cap may have
>> been added to counter bad lead dress. I'd advise changing the
>> resistor upward and making sure that it's wired close to the grid.

So there it is. The Valve refers to the other guy as a 'rocket
scientist', but it turns out he didn't understand Miller capacitance.

>> >I've forgotten more about this shit
>>
>> LOL! So you had a clue about electronics at one time then. Right.
>>
>> >Let's just say that when you listen to your
>> >favorite guitarists, odds are decent you're listening to a Merc.
>> >And the odds aren't terrible that I installed it for him.

>> Ha! Your "big fish" stories keep getting bigger. Which famous
>> guitarists are you referring to, or (ahem) can't you say?
>
>Eat my shorts, asswipe. Fries with that?
>
>Lord Valve, ThD
>Expert (fuck you)

So you're a rock star cause you -may have- swapped a Mercury
transformer in someone's amp. But you can't say who. This is supposed
to make your word and opinions gold. Bizarre.

The average bench tech in any backwoods town can do a transformer swap
in their sleep. What's complicated about it? And some of those techs
probably know what Miller effect is.

[Universe]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 01:10:38 -0500, Universe <Univ...@nospam.com>
wrote:

What that word you like so much...Oh yeah....BUMP!

Who are the famous guitarists you're bragging about? I think most are
onto your PT Barnum act by now, so it will be interesting to hear if
you can actually name the poor suckers.

[Les Cargill]

Universe wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 00:51:32 -0800 (PST), Army of 7 <m2a...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 11:39:56 PM UTC-8, Universe wrote:
>
>>> Our dear PT Barnum doesn't play guitar, has no notion of how to gauge
>>> dynamic response, and has no electronics chops to speak of. Not
>>> everything he says is wrong, but he has posted some of the weirdest,
>>> unsound advice that I've ever seen on this group.
>
>> Just found a video of a guy playing a V 5 through an AC30 cab. . Also, a guy who put a Mercury trans in a V5 ; )
>> https://youtu.be/cpUWyF_2P6s
>> https://youtu.be/bp4iQoajh5k
>
> I suspect that a lot of the JoesTubeCo mods to that amp repeat the
> 'bright cap' wisdom from the TDPRI page. The resulting clean tones
> with the treble jacked are often OK, but I really can't stand the
> sound when overdriven--Those mods emphasize the hashy splatter of
> the distorted tones' dissonant higher harmonics.
>

So use the tone control on the guitar. This is nearly always a
trade for any amp.

> Nothing wrong with putting Mercury transformers in an amp, btw. It's a
> different sound, more direct and up-front compared to cheap
> transformers. I've got a bunch of beautiful old UTC's that I sometimes
> swap into amps when I want that sound.
>
> But of course that was not the OP's objective in buying the V5 for
> cheap. So it's rather silly to think that he's going to spend 10x the
> original amp price on expensive mods.
>

Yep. of course a Silverface Champ may fetch $600
these days. Perhaps more.

--
Les Cargill

[Universe]

On 12 Jan 2016 15:51:37 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:

>On 2016-01-12, Lord Valve <ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Since caps in the pF range are a whole lot cheaper than speakers,
>> I'd go that route first.
>
>I plan to. Thnx fer the advice.

NB, In case you didn't see my other response about this, I think the
"multitude of bright caps" thing is entirely the wrong way to go. The
Youtube clips that I've heard would confirm that--harsh top end when
those amps are pushed.

I had suggested swapping in a better tone stack, like Fender or
similar. If you can't find space on the panel for the extra knob (for
Bass and Treble), I'll help you out with this:

I can draw you a simple schematic for a one-knob tone control that
will give similar response to the Fender circuit, but with the bass
locked in (as it is with your current tone stack). The difference will
be that the mids will be in Fender range, so it will brighten the top
end without the need for all the hashy sounding bright caps.

I don't want to spend time on that if you're not interested, but if
you are, I'll run the component values through siimulation software
that I've wriitten, so I can show you the response.

You'd need a lower valued pot, around 250k (like Fender). Plus a few
resistors and caps.

If that posted schematic is correct, I also spotted a problem with the
output stage that should be corrected. So let me know before you put
in any orders for parts.

[Army of 7]

Okay, here is the control specimen. A stock V5 recorded fairly well and played by a competent player with a good guitar.
https://youtu.be/N3v72JX_SX4
My opinion is that it sounds pretty good as is. I wouldn't modify the design of the circuit before trying a new speaker and tubes and probably the upgrade $12 OT from Antique. Users of the transformer say that it makes a home-brew Blackface Champ build sound close enough to a Champ that I believe it's worthy as an upgrade. I found a V5 used for $150, but haven't bought it yet. I'll be on the lookout for a great used price on one of these and will probably start a project to document the build. I really like that the V5 has a *spring* sounding reverb chip. My 6260 has a hall sounding reverb, and while it's ok I prefer spring tones. I also like the attenuator. I may end up putting in a line out, because my house of worship has a worship leader who doesn't like amps on stage. (I don't play with them now but hope to in the future) They use in ear monitors and go line out from the amps to the board. I might actually build an isolation speaker cab so I can really drive a Weber Blue pup speaker, which I think will be the best choice for the type of tone I'm after. This looks like it will be a cool project, stay tuned.

[Universe]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 19:50:54 -0600, Les Cargill
<lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote:

>Universe wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 00:51:32 -0800 (PST), Army of 7 <m2a...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 11:39:56 PM UTC-8, Universe wrote:
>>
>>>> Our dear PT Barnum doesn't play guitar, has no notion of how to gauge
>>>> dynamic response, and has no electronics chops to speak of. Not
>>>> everything he says is wrong, but he has posted some of the weirdest,
>>>> unsound advice that I've ever seen on this group.
>>
>>> Just found a video of a guy playing a V 5 through an AC30 cab. . Also, a guy who put a Mercury trans in a V5 ; )
>>> https://youtu.be/cpUWyF_2P6s
>>> https://youtu.be/bp4iQoajh5k
>>
>> I suspect that a lot of the JoesTubeCo mods to that amp repeat the
>> 'bright cap' wisdom from the TDPRI page. The resulting clean tones
>> with the treble jacked are often OK, but I really can't stand the
>> sound when overdriven--Those mods emphasize the hashy splatter of
>> the distorted tones' dissonant higher harmonics.
>>
>
>So use the tone control on the guitar. This is nearly always a
>trade for any amp.

Actually I thought of you when I saw the complaints about the Bugera
sounding dark, Les. That's the result of the lack of mid scoop, which
most guitarists associate with lack of treble. (We were talking about
the merits of the mid scooped Fender stack)

Also, the guitar's tone control is useful, but not great for
correcting the hashy sound from the stack of bright mods. As soon as
the stages inside the amp are overdriven, they'll create their own
harmonics.

You know the mechanics of this from DSP/signal theory: If you feed in
the ultimate rolled off tone, a sine, then distort it symmetrically,
you'll get closer and closer to a square wave. The sharp corners
correspond to high-order odd harmonics. Those will not sound pleasant
when emphasized via the bright caps.

>> Nothing wrong with putting Mercury transformers in an amp, btw. It's a
>> different sound, more direct and up-front compared to cheap
>> transformers. I've got a bunch of beautiful old UTC's that I sometimes
>> swap into amps when I want that sound.
>>
>> But of course that was not the OP's objective in buying the V5 for
>> cheap. So it's rather silly to think that he's going to spend 10x the
>> original amp price on expensive mods.

>Yep. of course a Silverface Champ may fetch $600
>these days. Perhaps more.

I haven't kept up with prices. I've got a couple of those that I
should sell! Not my favorite amp.

[Lord Valve]

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 6:35:32 PM UTC-7, Wrinkles the Clown sharted mightily:

My shorts were tasty, weren't they? A little sriracha
is the bomb. Enjoy!

[Lord Valve]

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 6:41:22 PM UTC-7, Wrinkles the Clown ecstatically moaned:

When you cease anonymity, so will they. <shrug>

Go fuck your mother with a post-hole digger, shitlips.

[Universe]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 18:19:54 -0800 (PST), Army of 7 <m2a...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Okay, here is the control specimen. A stock V5 recorded fairly well and played by a competent player with a good guitar.
>https://youtu.be/N3v72JX_SX4

> My opinion is that it sounds pretty good as is. I wouldn't modify
> the design of the circuit before trying a new speaker and tubes and

I tend to agree. That clip sounds way better to me than the over-hyped
treble mods. I understand why some prefer more top end for clean
tones, but over-hyping the treble is not the way to do it. And the
way that it affects the overdriven sounds is not pleasant at all. I
prefer the overdriven sounds from your clip above.

I was suggesting the Fender-type stack only for those who would
otherwise have opted for the rather kludgey bright mods. Ideally you'd
just want a tone circuit with better functionality.

In my own designs, I make sure that the tone controls can cover the
entire range, so the clean tones can be adjusted from mid-rich Chicago
blues/jazz sounds to more scooped clean Fender. But I never have much
use for hyping highs by bypassing volume controls.

> probably the upgrade $12 OT from Antique.

I'd have to spend some time with the stock transformer to determine
the merits. There are places where I do -not- prefer designer
transformers. Not to say that I'd like the Bugera OPT though.

> I really like that the V5 has a
> *spring* sounding reverb chip.

There are some very good single-chip reverb FX chips out there now.
Not sure what the Bugera uses.

>Blue pup speaker, which I think will be the best choice for the type
> of tone I'm after. This looks like it will be a cool project, stay tuned.

I was also thinking that one of the Weber blues would sound good in
that amp. I wonder if there's any way to retrofit a 10". Looks like
there's enough space on both sides, but not on the top and bottom.

BTW, if that posted schematic is accurate, the screen circuit needs to
be fixed.

[Army of 7]

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 7:23:16 PM UTC-8, Universe wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 18:19:54 -0800 (PST), Army of 7 <m2a...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Okay, here is the control specimen. A stock V5 recorded fairly well and played by a competent player with a good guitar.
> >https://youtu.be/N3v72JX_SX4
>
> > My opinion is that it sounds pretty good as is. I wouldn't modify
> > the design of the circuit before trying a new speaker and tubes and
>
> I tend to agree. That clip sounds way better to me than the over-hyped
> treble mods. I understand why some prefer more top end for clean
> tones, but over-hyping the treble is not the way to do it. And the
> way that it affects the overdriven sounds is not pleasant at all. I
> prefer the overdriven sounds from your clip above.
>
> I was suggesting the Fender-type stack only for those who would
> otherwise have opted for the rather kludgey bright mods. Ideally you'd
> just want a tone circuit with better functionality.
>
> In my own designs, I make sure that the tone controls can cover the
> entire range, so the clean tones can be adjusted from mid-rich Chicago
> blues/jazz sounds to more scooped clean Fender.

I had a Sunn Head which switched voicing from mid rich to scooped. I always wanted to make that a foot switchable feature; one channel, two tone stack/ volume options- 'funk' and 'spunk' ; ) My big deal is to turn down the guitar volume, but have the treble be preserved by a trick I discovered- instead of a bypass cap, tie the signal hot from the pickup and the signal hot to the output jack both be soldered to the wiper lug of the volume pot. All the treble is preserved, and the overdriven tone cleans up without getting dark. But I never have much

> use for hyping highs by bypassing volume controls.
>
> > probably the upgrade $12 OT from Antique.
>
> I'd have to spend some time with the stock transformer to determine
> the merits. There are places where I do -not- prefer designer
> transformers. Not to say that I'd like the Bugera OPT though.

I tend to think the bigger 8 watt transformer, even if not boutique, would be clearer and allow the tubes' saturation to shine rather than, say, saturating a small transformer. Doing the latter would be more 'tweed' sounding but I want, and think the V5 was designed for, a more 'Brit' (Vox AC4?) type vibe. So I'm thinking big transformer/bias the output hot/drive a Blue pup hard would be killer to go from chime clean to kerrangy drive- great for a tele.

>
> > I really like that the V5 has a
> > *spring* sounding reverb chip.
>
> There are some very good single-chip reverb FX chips out there now.
> Not sure what the Bugera uses.
>
> >Blue pup speaker, which I think will be the best choice for the type
> > of tone I'm after. This looks like it will be a cool project, stay tuned.
>
> I was also thinking that one of the Weber blues would sound good in
> that amp. I wonder if there's any way to retrofit a 10". Looks like
> there's enough space on both sides, but not on the top and bottom.

Hmm, maybe graft a little height on to the cabinet? I'd possibly be up for that- but I'll probably stay w/ an 8 if it won't fit and just run an extension cab. I'd love to hear it through a 2x12 with Weber blues or a 1x15.
Man! this is turning out to be just the motivation I need to face turning 51! (next week) ; (

>
> BTW, if that posted schematic is accurate, the screen circuit needs to
> be fixed.

What is wrong with it?

[notbob]

On 2016-01-14, Universe <Univ...@nospam.com> wrote:

> I was suggesting the Fender-type stack only for those who would
> otherwise have opted for the rather kludgey bright mods. Ideally you'd
> just want a tone circuit with better functionality.

OK, please explain "Fender-type stack". I'm not savvy to these
tube-amp buzz words.

>> I really like that the V5 has a *spring* sounding reverb chip.

> There are some very good single-chip reverb FX chips out there now.
> Not sure what the Bugera uses.

Agree. I love the Bug's reverb. I cut my teeth on surf music, so
naturally think there can be no such thing as too much reverb and the
Bug's chip sounds definitely "springy" to me.

I'm still futzing with it, so will try and get a full review in, later
today. I will say, I'm still looking for a good reason why I plonked
down $200 simoles fer this thing. Despite the rave reviews and the
amp's raging popularity, I'm underwhelmed. I'll explain, later.

> BTW, if that posted schematic is accurate, the screen circuit needs to
> be fixed.

Not sure about the schemo. The guy readily admits he's a "hobbyist"
and not a pro or even a tech. I try and find one.

nb

[Army of 7]

On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 10:49:50 AM UTC-8, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-01-14, Universe <Univ...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > I was suggesting the Fender-type stack only for those who would
> > otherwise have opted for the rather kludgey bright mods. Ideally you'd
> > just want a tone circuit with better functionality.
>
> OK, please explain "Fender-type stack". I'm not savvy to these
> tube-amp buzz words.

The tone stack is simply the components that comprise the bass/mid/treble tone control system of the amp. Fender-type here generally refers to the most used configuration in Fender classic amp designs. It has a distinct, bright sounding tonality which is less midrange-y than say a Marshall.

>
> >> I really like that the V5 has a *spring* sounding reverb chip.
>
> > There are some very good single-chip reverb FX chips out there now.
> > Not sure what the Bugera uses.
>
> Agree. I love the Bug's reverb. I cut my teeth on surf music,

if so, you probably like hearing the typical tight, pronounced bass, 'scooped' mids, and crisp treble response of Fender amps. The Bugera is not as scooped, and has more grit and less of a squeaky clean surf tone. An enhanced tone control scheme might benefit your potential enjoyment, as well as some of the other upgrades. If your goal is a surf-y clean sound, now we can focus on helping you get that. I think you can get there pretty easily. My own goal is a thicker, compressed, chimy vox like clean that gets harmonically driven in a pleasing, smooth, non raspy non fuzzy way when you dig in with the pick.

[Universe]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:02:23 -0800 (PST), Army of 7 <m2a...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 7:23:16 PM UTC-8, Universe wrote:

>> In my own designs, I make sure that the tone controls can cover the
>> entire range, so the clean tones can be adjusted from mid-rich Chicago
>> blues/jazz sounds to more scooped clean Fender.

>I had a Sunn Head which switched voicing from mid rich to scooped.
> I always wanted to make that a foot switchable feature; one channel,
> two tone stack/ volume options- 'funk' and 'spunk' ; )

Which amp? If I have a schematic, I'll take a look to see if it can
be footswitched easily.

>My big deal is to turn down the guitar volume, but have the treble be
> preserved by a trick I discovered- instead of a bypass cap, tie the
> signal hot from the pickup and the signal hot to the output jack both
> be soldered to the wiper lug of the volume pot. All the treble is
> preserved, and the overdriven tone cleans up without getting dark.

Not sure if I'm following the description. You mean like tying the
'top' two terminals of the volume pot together?

>> BTW, if that posted schematic is accurate, the screen circuit needs to
>> be fixed.

>What is wrong with it?

Screen resistors are supposed to limit power dissipated by the output
tube screens. The schematic shows a cap hooked directly to the screen,
which would undo the benefit of the resistor for AC dissipation. IOW,
the AC current would no longer need to be pulled thru the resistor.

I'd have to see a better schematic to make a recommendation, but it
may just be a matter of inserting a 500 ohm resistor (of suitable
wattage) before the screen. Vox amps and some others use 100 ohms, but
I'd increase that just to be sure. The Bugera is probably dimed as
often as not.

[Universe]

On 14 Jan 2016 18:49:47 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:

>On 2016-01-14, Universe <Univ...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> I was suggesting the Fender-type stack only for those who would
>> otherwise have opted for the rather kludgey bright mods. Ideally you'd
>> just want a tone circuit with better functionality.
>
>OK, please explain "Fender-type stack". I'm not savvy to these
>tube-amp buzz words.

"Stack" is just a common term for "Tone circuit." The circuit in the
Bugera is closer to old one-knob controls that usually have a lot of
mids. Fender changed to their current bass and treble control, which
cut mids significantly. The difference in tone is comparable to the
difference between, say, an old Supro (of Led Zep fame) and the
cleaner surf-like mid scoop that originated the term "Fender twang."

I personally like mid-rich sounds, but many who are criticizing the
Bugera amp for lack of top end are mistaking the difference between
those two types of tone controls.

In short, if you like the other type of control, install it. A much
better solution than the wacky string of bright-caps.

>I'm still futzing with it, so will try and get a full review in, later
>today. I will say, I'm still looking for a good reason why I plonked
>down $200 simoles fer this thing. Despite the rave reviews and the
>amp's raging popularity, I'm underwhelmed. I'll explain, later.

Yeah, if you can define what you're looking for, it might be easier to
make recommendations. No point in making changes if they don't address
the problem.

>> BTW, if that posted schematic is accurate, the screen circuit needs to
>> be fixed.
>
>Not sure about the schemo. The guy readily admits he's a "hobbyist"
>and not a pro or even a tech. I try and find one.

I covered the screen circuit in a post to Army of 7. Best to go by an
actual schematic though.

[Universe]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 19:14:35 -0800 (PST), Lord Valve
<ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 6:41:22 PM UTC-7, Wrinkles the Clown ecstatically moaned:
>> On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 01:10:38 -0500, Universe <Univ...@nospam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:48:44 -0800 (PST), Lord Valve
>> ><FuckYou@sshole> wrote:
>>
>> >>Let's just say that when you listen to your
>> >>favorite guitarists, odds are decent you're listening to a Merc.
>> >>And the odds aren't terrible that I installed it for him.

>> Who are the famous guitarists you're bragging about? I think most are
>> onto your PT Barnum act by now, so it will be interesting to hear if
>> you can actually name the poor suckers.

>When you cease anonymity, so will they. <shrug>

Doubtful. You will continue to bolster your ego by referring to
non-existing famous clients. I have no problem with that.

Not that installing a transformer should be a claim to fame.
Now if you could actually understand how they work, and design
circuitry with them, that would be another story.

>Go fuck your mother with a post-hole digger, shitlips.

Oooh...you sound upset! How's your "total control of the newsgroup"
thing going?

(shitlips? LOL)

[notbob]

On 2016-01-14, Universe <Univ...@nospam.com> wrote:

> "Stack" is just a common term for "Tone circuit." The circuit in the
> Bugera is closer to old one-knob controls that usually have a lot of
> mids.

Which is probably why I don't mind mids. In fact, when I listen to
ol' mp3 songs on something like xmms or audacious, I'm always
increasing the entire mid-range.

> I personally like mid-rich sounds, but many who are criticizing the
> Bugera amp for lack of top end are mistaking the difference between
> those two types of tone controls.

I think so. Hey, I grew up with only a single tone control on my car
radio. I don't think the highs are lacking on the V5, jes too much
bass. Ya' gotta max out the treble to clickety-clackish to get rid of the
heavy bass. Even then.....

> In short, if you like the other type of control, install it. A much
> better solution than the wacky string of bright-caps.

I've pretty much discarded mr. hobbyist as a viable source of info.



OTOH, I found these on Youtube:

Understanding tube amps pt 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pgOzjKhXww

Understanding tube amps pt 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b871FRjDWAs

Are these correct? Is this an incredibly simple, yet accurate,
description of how a tube amp works? Is the Gain control for the
Bugera's pre-amp tube and the Volume control is for its power tube?
I've had a couple good tube amps, over the yrs, but never knew any of
this. No wonder I never knew how to get a good tone from my amps. 8|

nb

[Army of 7]

On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 12:20:55 PM UTC-8, Universe wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:02:23 -0800 (PST), Army of 7 <m2a...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 7:23:16 PM UTC-8, Universe wrote:
>
> >> In my own designs, I make sure that the tone controls can cover the
> >> entire range, so the clean tones can be adjusted from mid-rich Chicago
> >> blues/jazz sounds to more scooped clean Fender.
>
> >I had a Sunn Head which switched voicing from mid rich to scooped.
> > I always wanted to make that a foot switchable feature; one channel,
> > two tone stack/ volume options- 'funk' and 'spunk' ; )
>
> Which amp? If I have a schematic, I'll take a look to see if it can
> be footswitched easily.
>

I don't have it anymore, but thanks for that.

> >My big deal is to turn down the guitar volume, but have the treble be
> > preserved by a trick I discovered- instead of a bypass cap, tie the
> > signal hot from the pickup and the signal hot to the output jack both
> > be soldered to the wiper lug of the volume pot. All the treble is
> > preserved, and the overdriven tone cleans up without getting dark.
>
> Not sure if I'm following the description. You mean like tying the
> 'top' two terminals of the volume pot together?

don't even use the top terminal- just allow the signal to ride on top of the variable resistor, and not have to pass through any resistance. It seems to work great, at least for me.

>
> >> BTW, if that posted schematic is accurate, the screen circuit needs to
> >> be fixed.
>
> >What is wrong with it?
>
> Screen resistors are supposed to limit power dissipated by the output
> tube screens. The schematic shows a cap hooked directly to the screen,
> which would undo the benefit of the resistor for AC dissipation. IOW,
> the AC current would no longer need to be pulled thru the resistor.
>
> I'd have to see a better schematic to make a recommendation, but it
> may just be a matter of inserting a 500 ohm resistor (of suitable
> wattage) before the screen. Vox amps and some others use 100 ohms, but
> I'd increase that just to be sure. The Bugera is probably dimed as
> often as not.

got it

[Les Cargill]

Yeah - clean ( I tend to run very clean ) is quite different
that way.

> Also, the guitar's tone control is useful, but not great for
> correcting the hashy sound from the stack of bright mods. As soon as
> the stages inside the amp are overdriven, they'll create their own
> harmonics.
>

Sure. It'll sound something like Randy Bachman on "American Woman".

> You know the mechanics of this from DSP/signal theory: If you feed in
> the ultimate rolled off tone, a sine, then distort it symmetrically,
> you'll get closer and closer to a square wave. The sharp corners
> correspond to high-order odd harmonics. Those will not sound pleasant
> when emphasized via the bright caps.
>

Yep.

>>> Nothing wrong with putting Mercury transformers in an amp, btw. It's a
>>> different sound, more direct and up-front compared to cheap
>>> transformers. I've got a bunch of beautiful old UTC's that I sometimes
>>> swap into amps when I want that sound.
>>>
>>> But of course that was not the OP's objective in buying the V5 for
>>> cheap. So it's rather silly to think that he's going to spend 10x the
>>> original amp price on expensive mods.
>
>> Yep. of course a Silverface Champ may fetch $600
>> these days. Perhaps more.
>
> I haven't kept up with prices. I've got a couple of those that I
> should sell! Not my favorite amp.
>

--
Les Cargill

[Universe]

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:33:41 -0800 (PST), Army of 7 <m2a...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 12:20:55 PM UTC-8, Universe wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:02:23 -0800 (PST), Army of 7 <m2a...@gmail.com>

>> >My big deal is to turn down the guitar volume, but have the treble be
>> > preserved by a trick I discovered- instead of a bypass cap, tie the
>> > signal hot from the pickup and the signal hot to the output jack both
>> > be soldered to the wiper lug of the volume pot. All the treble is
>> > preserved, and the overdriven tone cleans up without getting dark.
>>
>> Not sure if I'm following the description. You mean like tying the
>> 'top' two terminals of the volume pot together?

>don't even use the top terminal- just allow the signal to ride on top of the variable resistor, and not have to pass through any resistance. It seems to work great, at least for me.

If I'm following, it would be the equivalent of bridging the top two
terminals. It just takes the 'top' section out of play. You could
easily hook up a switch to get both variants if you wanted.

There are two different mechanisms in play, but both will roll of
highs as the volume control is turned down:

The regular wiring scheme keeps the pickup from getting loaded, but
when the volume is turned down, it presents a series resistance that
works against the -cable- capacitance to form an R-C filter.

Your 'shunt' method will also form a filter. The pickup is inductive,
so reducing the volume control will load the pickup, creating an L-C
filter. That's an interesting approach.

[Army of 7]

It definitely sounded brighter to me when the volume was turned down than a normally wired configuration. It was just an experiment after trying the' bright cap' mod so many employed (on humbucker equipped guitars usually) to get a clean tone especially from say a wound up Marshall. Got it from an old Guitar Player magazine article.

[Universe]

On 14 Jan 2016 21:31:52 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:

>On 2016-01-14, Universe <Univ...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> "Stack" is just a common term for "Tone circuit." The circuit in the
>> Bugera is closer to old one-knob controls that usually have a lot of
>> mids.
>
>Which is probably why I don't mind mids. In fact, when I listen to
>ol' mp3 songs on something like xmms or audacious, I'm always
>increasing the entire mid-range.

What do you not like about the Bugera sound then?

For point of reference, the intro to Smoke on the Water is a very
mid-rich tone. (I don't like the tune, but some of Deep Purple's
guitar sounds are cool)

>> I personally like mid-rich sounds, but many who are criticizing the
>> Bugera amp for lack of top end are mistaking the difference between
>> those two types of tone controls.
>
>I think so. Hey, I grew up with only a single tone control on my car
>radio. I don't think the highs are lacking on the V5, jes too much
>bass. Ya' gotta max out the treble to clickety-clackish to get rid of the
>heavy bass. Even then.....

Low mids can also sound kind of bassy, but if you just want to tame
the bass, that's very easy. It can usually be done by changing one
cap.

>> In short, if you like the other type of control, install it. A much
>> better solution than the wacky string of bright-caps.
>
>I've pretty much discarded mr. hobbyist as a viable source of info.

I didn't mean to be disparaging. I don't want to sound like our local
'expert.' The TDPRI dude was trying to share a solution that he
liked. Can't fault that.

>OTOH, I found these on Youtube:
>
>Understanding tube amps pt 3
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pgOzjKhXww
>
>Understanding tube amps pt 4
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b871FRjDWAs
>
>Are these correct? Is this an incredibly simple, yet accurate,
>description of how a tube amp works?

I watched the first one. It's a simplistic view to be sure. I've
spent countless hours staring at meters and oscilloscopes to track the
dynamics of tube amps. It's kind of like one organism, with the
different parts contributing something.

If the power section was the only important thing, then old Music Man
amps would have been in higher demand (solid state front end with tube
output). And of course there are plenty of examples of the reverse.

If you wanted to simplify the model, you could think of the preamp's
distortion as a limiter on signal peaks. When sharp dynamic peaks are
minimized, the 'sweet spot' setting of the volume control can more
efficiently ride the level where the output stage provides compression
without choking out. (I'm sure you've heard that effect when you turn
an amp up and play loud)

> Is the Gain control for the
>Bugera's pre-amp tube and the Volume control is for its power tube?

On the posted schematic, they're both controlling preamp signal,
though the second one does control signal -going into- the output
tube. The amp does have a 'wattage' switch though, that presumably
would control the final output.

>I've had a couple good tube amps, over the yrs, but never knew any of
>this. No wonder I never knew how to get a good tone from my amps. 8|

The bottom line is that you just twiddle knobs until you get sounds
you like. :-)

Here's an idea for the Bugera: If you can find a graphic EQ, plug it
in in front of the amp. Find a setting you like, but keep the slider
'contour' smooth. In other words, just a gradual change between each
slider. Find a setting that fixes the Bugera's sound to your
satisfaction, and we'll take it from there.

[Lord Valve]

My goodness...a pile of clueless asswipes is wanking
off mightily over a piece of chink shit. AGA has become
a masturbatorium for the Army of Six.

But then...it always was. <shrug>

Fuck off, creeps.

[Universe]

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 19:05:39 -0800 (PST), Lord Valve
<ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>My goodness...a pile of clueless asswipes is wanking
>off mightily over a piece of chink shit. AGA has become
>a masturbatorium for the Army of Six.
>
>But then...it always was. <shrug>
>
>Fuck off, creeps.

Deja vu. That's was about what you said when someone asked for help
with a Pro Jr. recently. After your usual pompous condescension about
the crappy little amp, you must have been shocked to find out that
Jeff Beck and other good guitarists were using them. You blew the
diagnosis on that amp too, in humorous fashion.

You don't play guitar, evidently have no clue how guitarists (Beck,
for instance) use their amps, and you have no electronics chops.
Your 'client list' has proven to be fiction, and you can't leave aga
despite being humiliated on a daily basis. How's that for a start.

Aren't you better off sticking with your political whining?

[Willsy]

On Monday, 11 January 2016 23:55:38 UTC, notbob wrote:
> The general consensus for tube/spkr mods seems to consist of replacing
> the pre-amp 12ax7 with a Tung-Sol tube and the EL84 pwr tube with a JJ
> or Sovetek, plus subbing a "chemp" (Emi 820H) or Celestron
> something-or-other spkr. Rat Amps suggests the Emi Eight-15 spkr,
> which I've yet to see discussed on the tdpri/v5 club thread, though
> one lone poster did mention it. I plan to bring it up.
>

What's the point in spending all that money to change out all the
valves and stuff? Why not just buy a better amp! It's mental! The
only original bits left would be the circuit board! What's the
point? It was clearly the wrong amp, or a crap amp to begin with!

I suppose this is another reason why I've abandoned tube amps over
the last 18 months. I just can't be bothered with all the wine
sniffery. I have a Vox AC30 and a Fender Twin re-issue. Both sound
fantastic. Both have had issues (the Fender overheats when played
loud for too long, and the AC30 valve rectifier is prone to blowing).
Haven't powered the Fender up for two years, and the vox is used
occaisionally if I fancy giving it an airing at a gig. It's a GREAT
sounding amp, but you really have to wind it up to Brian May levels
before it hits the "WOW! OH MY GOD!" factor. Then it's truly awesome.
The problem with that is, at a gig, the sound guy is like "you can
turn that the fuck down RIGH NOW mother-fucker". And that's another
thing with valve amps (at least in my experience) - they need to be
played loud to sound good.

I have a number of Sessionette 75 tranny amps from Session in the
UK, all of them built between 1984 and 1987. All of them are original,
with only the volume pots and input jacks changed. Sound like a
Fender. Can play them flat out all day long and they just about get
above room temperature. Since the magic happens in the pre-amp, you
can play them quiet too, and they sound great. The sound does improve
as it gets louder, but I think that's the speakers coming into their
"zone" rather than anything to do with the power amp. Totally 100%
reliable.

I'm not a touring guitar player, of course, but if I were, I'd take a
good tranny amp, such as a Session or a Peavey, and not worry about
delicate valve amps. I'd say overall that valve amps do sound better;
a well made valve amp, such as a Two Rock or a Fuch's are just amazing,
but it's a lot of dosh for a weekend-gigging guitarist, and the punters
can't tell the difference. I'll stick with what I have :-)

[Lord Valve]

On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 9:32:47 PM UTC-7, Rugis verberaretur equus mortuus:

> On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 19:05:39 -0800 (PST), Lord Valve
> <FuckYou@sshole> wrote:
> >
> >My goodness...a pile of clueless asswipes is wanking
> >off mightily over a piece of chink shit. AGA has become
> >a masturbatorium for the Army of Six.
> >
> >But then...it always was. <shrug>
> >
> >Fuck off, creeps.
>
> Deja vu. That's was about what you said when someone asked for help
> with a Pro Jr. recently. After your usual pompous condescension about
> the crappy little amp, you must have been shocked to find out that
> Jeff Beck and other good guitarists were using them. You blew the
> diagnosis on that amp too, in humorous fashion.
>
> You don't play guitar,

Wrong.

evidently have no clue how guitarists (Beck,
> for instance) use their amps,

Wrong.

and you have no electronics chops.

A laughable claim.

> Your 'client list' has proven to be fiction,

Would you like to prove that in court?

and you can't leave aga
> despite being humiliated on a daily basis. How's that for a start.

This "humiliation" is a figment of your imagination.

>
> Aren't you better off sticking with your political whining?

Aren't you better off sticking it where the sun don't shine?

Fuck off, creep.

[Lord Valve]

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 4:27:13 AM UTC-7, Willsy wrote:
> On Monday, 11 January 2016 23:55:38 UTC, notbob wrote:
> > The general consensus for tube/spkr mods seems to consist of replacing
> > the pre-amp 12ax7 with a Tung-Sol tube and the EL84 pwr tube with a JJ
> > or Sovetek, plus subbing a "chemp" (Emi 820H) or Celestron
> > something-or-other spkr. Rat Amps suggests the Emi Eight-15 spkr,
> > which I've yet to see discussed on the tdpri/v5 club thread, though
> > one lone poster did mention it. I plan to bring it up.
> >
>
> What's the point in spending all that money to change out all the
> valves and stuff? Why not just buy a better amp! It's mental! The
> only original bits left would be the circuit board! What's the
> point? It was clearly the wrong amp, or a crap amp to begin with!

Like I said - it's a piece of cheap-ass chink shit,
a turd not worth polishing. The Army of Six is having
a wank-fest over it - God knows why. (*I* certainly
don't.)

>
> I suppose this is another reason why I've abandoned tube amps over
> the last 18 months. I just can't be bothered with all the wine
> sniffery. I have a Vox AC30 and a Fender Twin re-issue. Both sound
> fantastic. Both have had issues (the Fender overheats when played
> loud for too long,

There are some tweaks necessary for the reissue Twin
that will make it last longer and sound better. I do
a couple every month. Also, every one I've seen so
far has a mistake in the PCB layout - gotta fix that.

and the AC30 valve rectifier is prone to blowing).

If you're been using JJ or Chinese 5AR4s, that's why. The
only current-production 5AR4 that's worth a shit is the
Sovtek. Of course, if you want to dump $100 - $200 on a
Mullard (which that circuit was originally designed to
use) that'll work just fine too. You might ask the folks
you buy your valves from to supply you with a set of JJ
EL84s picked for plate current that falls in the bottom
half of the batch; that'll put less strain on the rectifier.

> Haven't powered the Fender up for two years, and the vox is used
> occaisionally if I fancy giving it an airing at a gig. It's a GREAT
> sounding amp, but you really have to wind it up to Brian May levels
> before it hits the "WOW! OH MY GOD!" factor. Then it's truly awesome.
> The problem with that is, at a gig, the sound guy is like "you can

> turn that the fuck down RIGHT NOW mother-fucker".

"Sound guys" are universally full of shit. You can't find one
who thinks you know how you should sound better than he does.

And that's another
> thing with valve amps (at least in my experience) - they need to be
> played loud to sound good.

Depending on what kind of tone you're looking for, I'd
have to agree. That's what low-powered amps are good
for, though. Some of them are magnificent. None of them
come from China. Game over.

>
> I have a number of Sessionette 75 tranny amps from Session in the
> UK, all of them built between 1984 and 1987. All of them are original,
> with only the volume pots and input jacks changed. Sound like a
> Fender. Can play them flat out all day long and they just about get
> above room temperature. Since the magic happens in the pre-amp, you
> can play them quiet too, and they sound great. The sound does improve
> as it gets louder, but I think that's the speakers coming into their
> "zone" rather than anything to do with the power amp. Totally 100%
> reliable.

Don't know much about that one - they're not common in
the USA. I fixed one for a dude once; it had a busted
input jack. Sounded pretty good, I thought. The owner
was certainly fond of it. ;-)

>
> I'm not a touring guitar player, of course, but if I were, I'd take a
> good tranny amp, such as a Session or a Peavey, and not worry about
> delicate valve amps.

They're not delicate, really. If you have one that's been
maintained by someone who does *road* gear for a living -
as opposed to, say, newsgroup spec-book jockeys who've never
done a tour - and you roadcase it, there shouldn't be any
problems you or any halfway-competent roadie can't deal with.
Bonus: tubes are easy to replace - transistors ain't.

I'd say overall that valve amps do sound better;
> a well made valve amp, such as a Two Rock or a Fuch's are just amazing,
> but it's a lot of dosh for a weekend-gigging guitarist, and the punters
> can't tell the difference.

Quite a few punters around here, if you know what I mean. ;-)

I'll stick with what I have :-)

No reason not to - as I've said here many times, it's
not my business to tell anyone what they like. I mean -
how the fuck would *I* know, eh? I just fix 'em when
they go dodgy; occasionally, I build a few. I'm pretty
anal about construction and parts quality; some of the
cats I build for play 200+ shows a year. The occasional
burnt-out pilot light (I'd use LEDs, but the old-school
analog incandescent lamps have way better tone than the
SS digital lamps do) or failed tube is all that ever goes
wrong with any of mine. They ain't cheap, though. ;-)

Lord Valve, ThD
Expert (fuck anyone who doesn't like it - with a rake)

[Army of 7]

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 3:27:13 AM UTC-8, Willsy wrote:
> On Monday, 11 January 2016 23:55:38 UTC, notbob wrote:
> > The general consensus for tube/spkr mods seems to consist of replacing
> > the pre-amp 12ax7 with a Tung-Sol tube and the EL84 pwr tube with a JJ
> > or Sovetek, plus subbing a "chemp" (Emi 820H) or Celestron
> > something-or-other spkr. Rat Amps suggests the Emi Eight-15 spkr,
> > which I've yet to see discussed on the tdpri/v5 club thread, though
> > one lone poster did mention it. I plan to bring it up.
> >
>
> What's the point in spending all that money to change out all the
> valves and stuff?

Changing tubes and speakers is a lot like changing pickups and strings. An easy way to get the most out of your investment, take something in this or that direction to suit one's taste. The satisfaction of working at this process one's self is also quite rewarding to many people.

Why not just buy a better amp! It's mental! The
> only original bits left would be the circuit board! What's the
> point? It was clearly the wrong amp, or a crap amp to begin with!
>
> I suppose this is another reason why I've abandoned tube amps over
> the last 18 months. I just can't be bothered with all the wine
> sniffery. I have a Vox AC30 and a Fender Twin re-issue. Both sound
> fantastic. Both have had issues (the Fender overheats when played
> loud for too long, and the AC30 valve rectifier is prone to blowing).
> Haven't powered the Fender up for two years, and the vox is used
> occaisionally if I fancy giving it an airing at a gig. It's a GREAT
> sounding amp, but you really have to wind it up to Brian May levels
> before it hits the "WOW! OH MY GOD!" factor. Then it's truly awesome.
> The problem with that is, at a gig, the sound guy is like "you can
> turn that the fuck down RIGH NOW mother-fucker". And that's another
> thing with valve amps (at least in my experience) - they need to be
> played loud to sound good.

Tube amps have no equal. Amp sims and whatnot can be awesome, but to the player, noting beats tubes. But, ahh, the issues thing. Life is al about trade offs. I have great sounding processors, and amps. Both have their place. I happen to want to take on this project, I think I can make an amp with a reasonable amount of effort that will be very pleasing to turn on and play any time of the day or night- and all tube low wattage buddy that can be right beside the desk or couch.

>
> I have a number of Sessionette 75 tranny amps from Session in the
> UK, all of them built between 1984 and 1987. All of them are original,
> with only the volume pots and input jacks changed. Sound like a
> Fender. Can play them flat out all day long and they just about get
> above room temperature. Since the magic happens in the pre-amp, you
> can play them quiet too, and they sound great. The sound does improve
> as it gets louder, but I think that's the speakers coming into their
> "zone" rather than anything to do with the power amp. Totally 100%
> reliable.
>
> I'm not a touring guitar player, of course, but if I were, I'd take a
> good tranny amp, such as a Session or a Peavey, and not worry about
> delicate valve amps. I'd say overall that valve amps do sound better;
> a well made valve amp, such as a Two Rock or a Fuch's are just amazing,
> but it's a lot of dosh for a weekend-gigging guitarist, and the punters
> can't tell the difference. I'll stick with what I have :-)

Lots of really good players use Peavey solid state gear to play out. Better players than me by a longshot. Especially country players. Yee haw!

[Army of 7]

Racism and homoerotic comments free, though, so take that into account t when making your purchase decision- it's the little things that really count. Right, 'big' Willie?

["Angry" Red Boyle]

Lardy *is* controlling you.

Lardy has some whacked need to be publicly humiliated. You are doing that for him, just as he demands.

["Angry" Red Boyle]

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 7:07:18 AM UTC-6, Lord Valve wrote:

> Would you like to prove that in court?

Ah, the famous last gasp of someone whose arguments are in shambles.

Spoken like every other dishonest POS since the beginning of time. <shrug>

[Lord Valve]

Fuck off, creep.

[Lord Valve]

Fuck off, lizard-shit.

[Les Cargill]

Willsy wrote:
> On Monday, 11 January 2016 23:55:38 UTC, notbob wrote:
>> The general consensus for tube/spkr mods seems to consist of replacing
>> the pre-amp 12ax7 with a Tung-Sol tube and the EL84 pwr tube with a JJ
>> or Sovetek, plus subbing a "chemp" (Emi 820H) or Celestron
>> something-or-other spkr. Rat Amps suggests the Emi Eight-15 spkr,
>> which I've yet to see discussed on the tdpri/v5 club thread, though
>> one lone poster did mention it. I plan to bring it up.
>>
>
> What's the point in spending all that money to change out all the
> valves and stuff? Why not just buy a better amp! It's mental! The
> only original bits left would be the circuit board! What's the
> point? It was clearly the wrong amp, or a crap amp to begin with!
>

They're all crap until you find something in 'em.

> I suppose this is another reason why I've abandoned tube amps over
> the last 18 months. I just can't be bothered with all the wine
> sniffery. I have a Vox AC30 and a Fender Twin re-issue. Both sound
> fantastic. Both have had issues (the Fender overheats when played
> loud for too long, and the AC30 valve rectifier is prone to blowing).
> Haven't powered the Fender up for two years, and the vox is used
> occaisionally if I fancy giving it an airing at a gig. It's a GREAT
> sounding amp, but you really have to wind it up to Brian May levels
> before it hits the "WOW! OH MY GOD!" factor. Then it's truly awesome.
> The problem with that is, at a gig, the sound guy is like "you can
> turn that the fuck down RIGH NOW mother-fucker". And that's another
> thing with valve amps (at least in my experience) - they need to be
> played loud to sound good.
>

I think people cheated. A guy I once played with had a Plexi,
but he ran a Morley volume/wah into it and I think that was
really his sound. It found that peaky thing Marshalls excelled at.

I dunno; maybe we were that loud back then.

> I have a number of Sessionette 75 tranny amps from Session in the
> UK, all of them built between 1984 and 1987. All of them are original,
> with only the volume pots and input jacks changed. Sound like a
> Fender. Can play them flat out all day long and they just about get
> above room temperature. Since the magic happens in the pre-amp, you
> can play them quiet too, and they sound great. The sound does improve
> as it gets louder, but I think that's the speakers coming into their
> "zone" rather than anything to do with the power amp. Totally 100%
> reliable.
>

I don't think us Yanks could hope to see much less own a Sessionette.
I'd throw in Lab Series and certain Fender squalid state amps, perhaps
even the Marshall MOSFET designs.

> I'm not a touring guitar player, of course, but if I were, I'd take a
> good tranny amp, such as a Session or a Peavey, and not worry about
> delicate valve amps.

These days, you might take a Kemper modeller.

> I'd say overall that valve amps do sound better;

Sometimes. When they are good, they are very very good...

> a well made valve amp, such as a Two Rock or a Fuch's are just amazing,
> but it's a lot of dosh for a weekend-gigging guitarist, and the punters
> can't tell the difference. I'll stick with what I have :-)
>

--
Les Cargill

[Army of 7]

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 8:32:25 PM UTC-8, Les Cargill wrote:
> Willsy wrote:
> > On Monday, 11 January 2016 23:55:38 UTC, notbob wrote:
> >> The general consensus for tube/spkr mods seems to consist of replacing
> >> the pre-amp 12ax7 with a Tung-Sol tube and the EL84 pwr tube with a JJ
> >> or Sovetek, plus subbing a "chemp" (Emi 820H) or Celestron
> >> something-or-other spkr. Rat Amps suggests the Emi Eight-15 spkr,
> >> which I've yet to see discussed on the tdpri/v5 club thread, though
> >> one lone poster did mention it. I plan to bring it up.
> >>
> >
> > What's the point in spending all that money to change out all the
> > valves and stuff? Why not just buy a better amp! It's mental! The
> > only original bits left would be the circuit board! What's the
> > point? It was clearly the wrong amp, or a crap amp to begin with!
> >
>
> They're all crap until you find something in 'em.

I can just hear some of the original designers (maybe even Leo Fender himself, who would later make the imo great sounding Music Man amps with tube preamp gain circuits like the RD50) decrying 'them niggers, winding it up to get that static'

>
> > I suppose this is another reason why I've abandoned tube amps over
> > the last 18 months. I just can't be bothered with all the wine
> > sniffery. I have a Vox AC30 and a Fender Twin re-issue. Both sound
> > fantastic. Both have had issues (the Fender overheats when played
> > loud for too long, and the AC30 valve rectifier is prone to blowing).
> > Haven't powered the Fender up for two years, and the vox is used
> > occaisionally if I fancy giving it an airing at a gig. It's a GREAT
> > sounding amp, but you really have to wind it up to Brian May levels
> > before it hits the "WOW! OH MY GOD!" factor. Then it's truly awesome.
> > The problem with that is, at a gig, the sound guy is like "you can
> > turn that the fuck down RIGH NOW mother-fucker". And that's another
> > thing with valve amps (at least in my experience) - they need to be
> > played loud to sound good.
> >
>
> I think people cheated. A guy I once played with had a Plexi,
> but he ran a Morley volume/wah into it and I think that was
> really his sound.

Like Michael Schenker- that cocked/rocked wah sound to goose the frequencies, like a vari-q rather than a weepy white room effect.

It found that peaky thing Marshalls excelled at.
>
> I dunno; maybe we were that loud back then.

AHA! "I can't recall , sir.. " MAYBE you was on dem DRUGS...

>
> > I have a number of Sessionette 75 tranny amps from Session in the
> > UK, all of them built between 1984 and 1987. All of them are original,
> > with only the volume pots and input jacks changed. Sound like a
> > Fender. Can play them flat out all day long and they just about get
> > above room temperature. Since the magic happens in the pre-amp, you
> > can play them quiet too, and they sound great. The sound does improve
> > as it gets louder, but I think that's the speakers coming into their
> > "zone" rather than anything to do with the power amp. Totally 100%
> > reliable.
> >
>
> I don't think us Yanks could hope to see much less own a Sessionette.
> I'd throw in Lab Series and certain Fender squalid state amps, perhaps
> even the Marshall MOSFET designs.
>
> > I'm not a touring guitar player, of course, but if I were, I'd take a
> > good tranny amp, such as a Session or a Peavey, and not worry about
> > delicate valve amps.
>

> These days, you might take a Kemper modeler.

Check out the Positive Grid Bias Desktop also, very sleek & tweakable interface- (AND sounds great- lots of high profile users) I've seen and heard guitarists play in a large (2,000 +) venue with a laptop. Guitar-pedalboard-laptop-mixer- can't tell it's not a real amp.
https://youtu.be/s-FXxK1Rg_M

[Universe]

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 05:07:15 -0800 (PST), Lord Valve
<ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 9:32:47 PM UTC-7, Rugis verberaretur equus mortuus:
>> On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 19:05:39 -0800 (PST), Lord Valve
>> <FuckYou@sshole> wrote:
>> >
>> >My goodness...a pile of clueless asswipes is wanking
>> >off mightily over a piece of chink shit.

>> Deja vu. That's was about what you said when someone asked for help
>> with a Pro Jr. recently. After your usual pompous condescension about
>> the crappy little amp, you must have been shocked to find out that
>> Jeff Beck and other good guitarists were using them. You blew the
>> diagnosis on that amp too, in humorous fashion.
>>
>> You don't play guitar,
>
>Wrong.

Wait, don't tell me...you'd grab a Gibson L-5 and jump right up on
stage with John Coltrane, right?

Repeat: You don't play guitar, and...

>> you have no clue how guitarists (Beck,

>> for instance) use their amps,

>Wrong.

Repeat: You don 't know how guitarists use their amps

You ranted on about how the Pro Jr was a piece of unusable crap too.
But then it was brought to your attention that Jeff Beck uses one.
It's not just a matter of swapping in expensive parts. Electric
guitar evolved as cheap slabs of wood with cheap hum-prone coils
plugged into cheap cheap amp circuiits with cheap low-fi speakers.

You don't understand how to make any of that work to your advantage,
and you don't have any design chops, so you just copy Fender and
Marshall circuits and start swapping in more expensive parts. You
have no idea where you're going. Used car salesman.

>>and you have no electronics chops.
>
>A laughable claim.

Said the person who just betrayed his ignorance of tube technology
again. Miller capacitance--that's highschool stuff, Valve. And that
was just the latest blunder, a few posts up-thread.

Repeat: You have no electronics chops.

>> Your 'client list' has proven to be fiction,
>
>Would you like to prove that in court?

Would you like to disprove it? Very simple: post it. You'll be
vindicated. You can't.

>> and you can't leave aga
>> despite being humiliated on a daily basis. How's that for a start.
>
>This "humiliation" is a figment of your imagination.

:-) As long as you're enjoying it, you know what to do.

[Lord Valve]

On Saturday, January 16, 2016 at 3:49:15 PM UTC-7, Wrinkles the Clown dropped his weaner long enough to type:

Lie all you want. Six people might believe you, you
pitiful little shart.


Fuck off, creep.

[richardni...@gmail.com]

You're Her Royal Highness of AGA, talking about a pitiful little shart. Sell that claim to fame to your clients.

["Angry" Red Boyle]

On Monday, January 18, 2016 at 8:47:14 AM UTC-6, Lord Valve wrote:

> Lie all you want. Six people might believe you, you
> pitiful little shart.

He beats you, Lardy, six to four. LMAO!

I love the agenda you're setting here. ;)

[Defiant]

You know his recent pop quiz and spiel on Miller capacitance?
He specifically used a resistor value of 68k in his reply
to notbob to "supress RF". LOL. Anyway, wanna guess where
he got all that shit? Here ya go:

<http://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/what-is-miller-capacitance>

He doesn't know shit. He just reads shit on the web, then struts
in here and tries to act like he knows it all. He's not only a liar,
but a pathetic loser as well.

[Universe]

On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 06:47:13 -0800 (PST), Lord Valve
<ghost....@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, January 16, 2016 at 3:49:15 PM UTC-7, Wrinkles the Clown dropped his weaner long enough to type:
>> On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 05:07:15 -0800 (PST), Lord Valve
>> <FuckYou@sshole> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 9:32:47 PM UTC-7, Rugis verberaretur equus mortuus:
>> >> On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 19:05:39 -0800 (PST), Lord Valve
>> >> <FuckYou@sshole> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >My goodness...a pile of clueless asswipes is wanking
>> >> >off mightily over a piece of chink shit.
>>
>> >> Deja vu. That's was about what you said when someone asked for help
>> >> with a Pro Jr. recently. After your usual pompous condescension about
>> >> the crappy little amp, you must have been shocked to find out that
>> >> Jeff Beck and other good guitarists were using them. You blew the
>> >> diagnosis on that amp too, in humorous fashion.
>> >>
>> >> You don't play guitar,
>> >
>> >Wrong.

>> You ranted on about how the Pro Jr was a piece of unusable crap too.
>> But then it was brought to your attention that Jeff Beck uses one.
>> It's not just a matter of swapping in expensive parts. Electric
>> guitar evolved as cheap slabs of wood with cheap hum-prone coils
>> plugged into cheap cheap amp circuiits with cheap low-fi speakers.
>>
>> You don't understand how to make any of that work to your advantage,
>> and you don't have any design chops, so you just copy Fender and
>> Marshall circuits and start swapping in more expensive parts. You
>> have no idea where you're going. Used car salesman.

>Lie all you want. Six people might believe you, you
>pitiful little shart.
>
>Fuck off, creep.

I love it when you start yelling LIAR! It means that you're about to
tell a slew of them. So I'm lying about you slagging the Pro Jr, and
then finding out that Jeff Beck uses them? Here's you, launching your
usual pompous crap on someone who stopped in to ask a question about
his Pro Jr amp:

Valve wrote: "If you love your Pro Junior, well...nothing can be
done for you. Consider a career in food service. "

As if that wasn't idiotic enough:

Valve: "I had one that another shop owner took in on trade; he
wanted me to "fix it" so it didn't sound like ass. No dice. "

So you couldn't make it sound good. What a surprise. You insisted
that Pro Jrs had a hum problem that could not be fixed.

The best part, which the more technical will appreciate: The guy
followed others' recommendations to swap the 12ax7. It fixed the
"unfixable" hum problem. So you came up with a brilliant reason: "The
new 12ax7 just happened to generate its own hum which was exactly out
of phase with the amp's hum, so they cancelled each other out." Holy
crap! :-) At least Doofiant will swear to it.

So the trick would be to find a bunch of different 12ax7s with various
types of hum so you can cancel out the hum in any amp! Brilliant!

This is exactly why I said you are not qualified to evaluate guitar
amps. There's a reason why many guitarist (Jeff Beck, for instance)
like Pro Jr's, Bugeras, etc. You don't understand the dynamics of the
guitar, so you wouldn't understand.

And as for liars...you just claimed you're a guitarist. LOL!

[Universe]

My weekend would not have been complete. The latest classic from
Valve and his rabid guard dog:

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 05:18:00 -0000 (UTC), Defiant
<spam...@outhouse.com> wrote:
>
>You know his recent pop quiz and spiel on Miller capacitance?
>He specifically used a resistor value of 68k in his reply
>to notbob to "supress RF". LOL. Anyway, wanna guess where
>he got all that shit? Here ya go:
>
><http://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/what-is-miller-capacitance>

You two are hilarious, trying so hard, only to inevitably look so
foolish. Yeah, I specifically used the value of 68k. You want to know
where I came up with 68k? Listen close:

IT'S IN EVERY FRIGGIN FENDER AMP SINCE THE LATE 50's!

Marshall and others use it as well. It has been the standard value on
the input of guitar amps for decades. That would also be why it is
mentioned on Randy Aiken's site, along with a few hundred other
websites.

Now you've got to figure some way to insist that you knew that all
along. (Seriously, you've never seen a Fender schematic? WTF)

>He doesn't know shit. He just reads shit on the web, then struts
>in here and tries to act like he knows it all. He's not only a liar,
>but a pathetic loser as well.

"Ignorant strutting liar acting like he knows it all" :-) You're a
walking study in irony, Doof! Here's a derivation of the value:

To roll off frequencies above 20Khz (ultrasonics, RF, etc), you'd
calculate the resistor value with the same formula that I've posted
here in the past for tone circuits and power supply filtering:

R = 160k / (freq * capacitance)

In the case of a 12ax7, the Miller capacitance will be upward of
120pf, so that's:

R = 160k / (20khz * 0.000120)

Which gives you (drum roll):

R = 66k !

Fender and others simply picked the closest value. No, I didn't have
to find it on a website---I could draw Fender circuits from memory
when I was about 14 years old. And I knew what Miller effect was.

Another irony: It's obvious that you came up with that link cause
-you- had to search for "Miller capacitance." Hit the books, dude.
It's in just about every tube manual since tubes were invented. And
go find some guitar amp schematics fer chrissake.

Valve is retarded, but man, you have defined your own category.

[Universe]

Valve is proud of killing a once-cool newsgroup, but somehow it hasn't
dawned on him that now his desperate messages will only reach an
audience of 10. Not sure why he'd want to emphasize that. This is
his world after all.

I think he has grandchildren. Can you imagine growing up with the
stigma of mentally ill grampa cursing at the world with his computer?
Cringe.

["Angry" Red Boyle]

lol

["Angry" Red Boyle]

Jeff Baxter and Jimmy Page must have shocked Lardy with their Dan Electro amp-in-case guitars.

And yes, they sounded great. ;)

[Universe]

Amazing, isn't it? He posts those self-portraits without any clue.
That one was especially good.

The 68k resistor detective work was surreal. He apparently didn't
realize that Fender and many others have been using 68k forever.

Here's a short list of amps that have used 68k resistors on the input:
Vox, Ampeg, Gibson, Soldano, Bogner, Marshall, Dr. Z, Sound City,
Sovtek, Orange, Sundown, Epiphone, MusicMan, Traynor, Laney,
Matchless, and of course most any Fender amp since the late 50's.
There are more. It's been adopted as a plug-n-play standard. The amp
genius had no idea where I got that mysterious value.

It's surprising enough to think that he has never seen schematics for
a Fender amp or opened one up, but given the sheer number of amps that
use that value....that's a huge WTF. How could anyone miss that?

The guy who compared him to his 'electronics expert' friend who
thought one of his output tubes was blown cause one speaker wasn't
working--that seems more accurate every day.

And of course he's defending his master Valve, who also didn't
understand Miller effect, and apparently had no idea why that resistor
would be there. You have to wonder how disastrous Valve's "designs"
would be if he wasn't just ripping off other companies' amp circuits.

Valve's comments about RF pickup might actually have had some basis in
reality ("stopped clock syndrome") if he had any notion about the
values involved. I listed 120pf as a conservative value for effective
Miller capacitance, but depending on gain, that could actually be
around 200pf. Valve's insistance on adding 47pf wouldn't make a huge
difference. But of course he'd have no way of knowing that.

[Universe]

Now Valve's a guitar player too, so those guys better watch their
backs.

I've seen great guitarists playing thru hacked tape recorder
electronics and worse. There's often a sound in there no matter what
the amp. Great players will find it.

One of my friends is a world-class blues guitarist--Hendrix chops with
Muddy Waters voice. He's got a lot of albums out, recorded with dinky
amps that would be thoroughly trashed by the idiot transformer Nazis
here. So I had him over to try out a few different amps and guitars.
He'd pick up something that was totally alien to him, and you could
tell. (I've got a large collection, including some odd stuff). He'd
just be plunking at it like he just started playing guitar. But within
5 minutes he'd figure out exactly what it would do. He was getting
great sounds out of everything I threw at him, including acoustics.
That's a musician.

The notion that you gotta turn every guitar amp into a hifi just shows
the lack of insight into how guitarists think. Our favorite recordings
were not done with $400 transformers and Altec 417's.

I have a ton of expensive OPT's that I've collected over the years,
including some sought-after vintage UTCs. I don't always like them in
guitar amps. They do what they're supposed to do--they sound
efficient, and very up-front, defined, and clear. It's a good sound,
but that's not always the way to go.

[Defiant]

I googled your sentence, dumbass. Amazing that one of the top
hits was Aiken's page. If it walks, talks, and acts like a
bullshitter, it *MUST* be a bullshitter. No worries though,
your audience of six clings to your every lie.

Since it ALWAYS deserves a repost, here ya go:

Here's a gem our resident non-engineer liar came up with:

----------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 06:50:34 +0000, Defiant wrote:

> On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 05:26:02 -0400, Ravaged Sphincter *really* stepped
> on his crank!!!
>
>> On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 07:06:37 +0000 (UTC), Defiant <tras...@nospam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 21:39:45 -0400, Ravaged Sphincter stepped on his
>>>crank.... yet again:
>>>
>>>
>>>
RatShit:

>>>> In this case though, the drop of a 5AR4 (18 v or so) is so much lower
>>>> that you could consider just swapping in regular cheap 1n4005 (or
>>>> whatever) recitifier diodes.
>>>
>>>
Defiant:

>>>Fucking *outstanding* recommendation! Unless his transformer secondary
>>>is more than 425VCT that is, in which case those 4005's will be history
>>>the instant he flips the switch. But hey, you're a big-time electronics
>>>designer, right? You know best! Besides, it's Cock N. Sucker's amp, so
>>>who gives a fuck.
>>>
>>>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>
RatShit:

>> See, that's a really interesting comment there, Defecant. 1n4005's
>> have a peak inverse voltage spec of 600v. So you think that the
>> transformer in an amp designed for 6V6's is going to exceed that, do
>> ya.
>>
>> The 5E1/5F1 series barely bumped 300v plate. The power supply
>> electrolytics are rated 450v. Consider that the 6V6's and caps could
>> be in trouble long before you see 600v across the rectifiers.
>>
>> Fender used 1N5062 rectifiers in amps that put 500v on 6L6 plates. Work
>> out the P.I.V/B+ ratios. What did you get?
>>
>> Also, do you think your 425vct power transformer would actually swing
>> over 600v peak from each side to ground? How much RMS voltage on each
>> side of the transformer secondary?
>>
>> If you're going to say you meant 425v on each side of the secondary,
>> then that would translate to 600v peak. Would you put that transformer
>> in a 6V6 amp?
>>
>> Perhaps you could explain your logic.
>
>
Defiant:

> Oh my! I expected you to claim that you really meant 4007 not 4005, but
> your attempt to support your recommendation is fucking *hilarious!* It's
> more than I dared hoped for!
>
> Ravaged Sphincter shoulda buckled down in his correspondence course in
> electronics. Maybe then he would understand how much reverse voltage
> each of the two diodes in a full wave center tap arrangement actually
> sees. Anyone who thinks this clown is an "expert" at *anything* is as
> stupid and clueless as RS himself (Cock N. Sucker - that means *you*!).
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> Well, Sphincter-boy managed several posts since me above reply, but no
> reply to the above. Imagine that? He's still trying to figure out how to
> bullshit his way out of such a colossal fuck-up, no doubt. No worries -
> he will come up with some pathetic lie. It's what he does.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

RatShit quietly disappeared shortly after that fuck-up, and eventually
changed his sock to "Universe" hoping no noobs would be able to Google his
gaffes.

Fuck you,

[Universe]

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 06:15:24 -0000 (UTC), Defiant
<spam...@outhouse.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 02:40:52 -0500, Universe wrote:

>> On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 05:18:00 -0000 (UTC), Defiant

>>>You know his recent pop quiz and spiel on Miller capacitance?
>>>He specifically used a resistor value of 68k in his reply
>>>to notbob to "supress RF". LOL. Anyway, wanna guess where
>>>he got all that shit? Here ya go:
>>>
>>><http://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/what-is-miller-capacitance>

>> You two are hilarious, trying so hard, only to inevitably look so
>> foolish. Yeah, I specifically used the value of 68k. You want to know
>> where I came up with 68k? Listen close:
>>
>> IT'S IN EVERY FRIGGIN FENDER AMP SINCE THE LATE 50's!
>>
>> Marshall and others use it as well. It has been the standard value on
>> the input of guitar amps for decades. That would also be why it is
>> mentioned on Randy Aiken's site, along with a few hundred other
>> websites.
>>
>> Now you've got to figure some way to insist that you knew that all
>> along. (Seriously, you've never seen a Fender schematic? WTF)

>>>He doesn't know shit. He just reads shit on the web, then struts
>>>in here and tries to act like he knows it all. He's not only a liar,
>>>but a pathetic loser as well.
>>
>> "Ignorant strutting liar acting like he knows it all" :-) You're a
>> walking study in irony, Doof! Here's a derivation of the value:

>> Another irony: It's obvious that you came up with that link cause
>> -you- had to search for "Miller capacitance." Hit the books, dude.
>> It's in just about every tube manual since tubes were invented. And
>> go find some guitar amp schematics fer chrissake.

>I googled your sentence, dumbass. Amazing that one of the top
>hits was Aiken's page. If it walks, talks, and acts like a
>bullshitter, it *MUST* be a bullshitter.

Oh my, another self-portrait. "Bullshitter"... LOL

So you're saying that I copy-and-pasted the info from Randy's site?
That's just bizarre, even for you. This is you trying to get out of
your asinine "68k" statement. Quote the text that you say I copied.
Let's see who the bullshitter is.

If you knew what Miller effect was, you wouldn't need to be googling
for it to begin with, would you, bullshitter. Check Radiotron or just
about any other electronics reference from the tube era. It was
understood since the 1930's. Apparently the only 'experts' who didn't
know about it are you and Valve. I imagine he hit Google too.

Everyone but you also knew that the 68k value came from Fender, Vox,
Marshall, Ampeg, Gibson, etc., not from Randy's website. That was some
mighty fine detective work, Doof. Mighty fine :-)

Now post the text that you say I copied or STFU already, OK? Thanks,
doggy. Arf arf!


PS: If you're really looking for a cut-and-paste artist, check Valve's
"designs." They're all blatant rips of Fender and Marshall circuits.
There's yer "strutting copy-and-paste know-it-all," Mr detective.
Glad to help.

[Universe]

On 14 Jan 2016 21:31:52 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:

>On 2016-01-14, Universe <Univ...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> "Stack" is just a common term for "Tone circuit." The circuit in the
>> Bugera is closer to old one-knob controls that usually have a lot of
>> mids.
>
>Which is probably why I don't mind mids. In fact, when I listen to
>ol' mp3 songs on something like xmms or audacious, I'm always
>increasing the entire mid-range.
>
>> I personally like mid-rich sounds, but many who are criticizing the
>> Bugera amp for lack of top end are mistaking the difference between
>> those two types of tone controls.
>
>I think so. Hey, I grew up with only a single tone control on my car
>radio. I don't think the highs are lacking on the V5, jes too much
>bass. Ya' gotta max out the treble to clickety-clackish to get rid of the
>heavy bass. Even then.....

Hey, nb, are you getting anywhere with the Bugera? Thought I should
check back before the thread runs too far off the rails.

If you can post a description of what you want to change, I'll try to
work out a circuit for you. If you decide you're looking for more
treble, you could try swapping in a Fender-type tone circuit. You'd
have to find panel space for the additional pot. Or I can show you
how to 'hard-wire' the bass section to eliminate the bass pot.

[notbob]

On 2016-01-21, Universe <Univ...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Hey, nb, are you getting anywhere with the Bugera? Thought I should
> check back before the thread runs too far off the rails.

I'm still here and still reading.

My Bug is not all I expected. The main prob seems to be, jes not
enought volume! I've been playing with it and trying different pups
and varying the Gain and Volume levels to find the different break-up
levels for the tubes. Today I introduce my Tele to my Bug and we
shall see what we see. I've been fret-flogging my Aria Pro II RS with
dual HB pups. The neck HB seems to have the most gain.

Hang in there. I'm gonna post my review, it's jes I'm old and lazy.


nb

["Angry" Red Boyle]

They have signs in guitar shops for guys like Lardy: "NO Smoke on the Water or Stairway to Heaven allowed. Violators will be ejected from the store."

Apparently Lardy needs another sign, just for him: "NO hopping on stage and jamming with Coltrane." :)

> I've seen great guitarists playing thru hacked tape recorder
> electronics and worse. There's often a sound in there no matter what
> the amp. Great players will find it.

One of the best sounds I have ever gotten was through the amp of an Ampex tube reel-to-reel. The recorder was in one case and the amp in another. Awesome until my bass player knocked a beer into it. :(

> One of my friends is a world-class blues guitarist--Hendrix chops with
> Muddy Waters voice. He's got a lot of albums out, recorded with dinky
> amps that would be thoroughly trashed by the idiot transformer Nazis
> here.

I think I recall Elliott Randall saying he had recorded a Steely Dan solo though an Amped SVT cranked all the way. IIRC, that story included a 50-foot cable and a separate studio...

I'll bet more solos have been recorded on Champs than any other amp, even with their cheap transformers. :)