Disappointing Polytone Amp
Dale H. Marsh
> I just picked up a Polytone Minibrute II to go along with my
> Gibson L-5. I've extremely disappointed with the amp. First of
> all, it's dry, cold, and sterile. That's quite an accomplishment
> since my L-5 sounds great even through my Fender Squier amp !
> Secondly, the reverb is terrible. Even cranked all the way, it's
> barely noticable. Thirdly, the amp crackles and hisses. You would
> think it was a tube amp with bad plate resistors.
>
> Needless to say, I'll be returning this amp. Unfortunately, there is
(stuff deleted)
I do not have any experience with the Polytone, however, I have also had
some trouble finding a small amp to play Jazz with. My last gig with just
a pianist I used my Fender Super Twin Reverb because I wanted two speakers
and I wanted its headroom. I used this in favor of my much more portable
Deluxe and Sundown 1x12. The Mesa Tremoverb I use with my rock band has a
pretty nice sounding clean channel, however, in terms of weight it makes
the Super Twin seem like a small amp!
It seems as if you have more experience trying various smaller amps than
I, but perhaps if generous clean headroom is required a Twin-sized amp or
TWO smaller tube amps may be required.
Jim Kroger
Jim
In article <31D1F6...@en.com>, "Jack A. Zucker" <j...@en.com> wrote:
>>I just picked up a Polytone Minibrute II to go along with my
>>Gibson L-5. I've extremely disappointed with the amp. First of
>>all, it's dry, cold, and sterile. That's quite an accomplishment
>>since my L-5 sounds great even through my Fender Squier amp !
>>Secondly, the reverb is terrible. Even cranked all the way, it's
>>barely noticable. Thirdly, the amp crackles and hisses. You would
>>think it was a tube amp with bad plate resistors.
>>
>>Needless to say, I'll be returning this amp. Unfortunately, there is
>>very little out there in the way of small, light, combo amps that
>>have alot of headroom and get a good jazz sound. I have an old
>>Twin Reverb which of course sounds beautiful with the L-5 but
>>I wanted something smaller for duo and trio gigs. I've tried
>>the various Fender solid state combos and they are too bright.
>>The small Fender tube amps sound good but the 20 watter doesn't have
>>enough headroom and the store was out of the Blues Deluxe 1x12 combo.
>>I suspect that at 40 watts, it probably does not have the headroom.
>>I've also tried the smaller Roland Jazz Chorus amps and don't care
>>for them. I *DO* like the JC-120 but it's as big as my Twin.
>>
>>-Jaz
>>--
>>>
>>> Jack A. Zucker | ESP Music
>>> j...@en.com or | Voice: 216 349 5881 (home)
>>> Jack....@software.rockwell.com | Voice: 216 646 7796 (work)
>>> | Fax: 216 646 7766 (work)
Jon Nilsen
Try a GK Backline 100, a Roland Blues Cube (60-watt version), or, believe
it or not, the little Crate stereo chorus model (GX40?). If I had the
bucks, I'd own'em all.
Jon Nilsen
Jack A. Zucker
>
> It seems as if you have more experience trying various smaller amps than
> I, but perhaps if generous clean headroom is required a Twin-sized amp or
> TWO smaller tube amps may be required.
Well with what is offered in todays market, you're certainly right from
what I've seen. In the past, I've used a Fender Princeton Reverb for
solo and duo gigs and a Deluxe works even better but they are both
useless with a drummer. Remember also that as quiet as jazz drummers
played in the '60s, Wes still used a Twin Reverb ! On the other hand,
the Polytone I tried was plenty loud, had enough headroom to satisfy
a loud drummer and electric bass but just had poor tone. I have several
big amps that have the headroom and tone to get a great jazz tone at
almost any volume but what I was after was a "one-hander"...Something
I could walk into a club with and not have to make multiple trips to
the car...Great for jam sessions, etc. Who wants to lug a Twin Reverb
or 2 amps to a jam session ?
Jack A. Zucker
> Try a GK Backline 100, a Roland Blues Cube (60-watt version), or, believe
> it or not, the little Crate stereo chorus model (GX40?). If I had the
> bucks, I'd own'em all.
Hmmm, I've hated every GK amp I've ever tried. A friend of mine
who works for one of the biggest music stores in the country told
me that the Blues Cubes sounded so bad that his store returned them
all to Roland and indicated that they would not be carrying them.
Crate does not have a good reputation for reliability!
I'll have to try the GK Backline. I think there's a local store
that carries them.
-Jaz
gpsasf
with an old Peavey Bandit 65 loaded with a 12" EV. Have also used a
Peavey Special 130 with a JBL, but that's a bit of overkill. Not very
romantic, but it's relatively light and stays clean pretty loud. The
worst part of those old Peaveys is the crappy Scorpian speakers; stick a
different speaker in there and it's a different amp.
Jack A. Zucker (j...@en.com) wrote:
: I just picked up a Polytone Minibrute II to go along with my
: Gibson L-5. I've extremely disappointed with the amp. First of
: all, it's dry, cold, and sterile. That's quite an accomplishment
: since my L-5 sounds great even through my Fender Squier amp !
: Secondly, the reverb is terrible. Even cranked all the way, it's
: barely noticable. Thirdly, the amp crackles and hisses. You would
: think it was a tube amp with bad plate resistors.
: Needless to say, I'll be returning this amp. Unfortunately, there is
: very little out there in the way of small, light, combo amps that
: have alot of headroom and get a good jazz sound. I have an old
: Twin Reverb which of course sounds beautiful with the L-5 but
: I wanted something smaller for duo and trio gigs. I've tried
: the various Fender solid state combos and they are too bright.
: The small Fender tube amps sound good but the 20 watter doesn't have
: enough headroom and the store was out of the Blues Deluxe 1x12 combo.
: I suspect that at 40 watts, it probably does not have the headroom.
: I've also tried the smaller Roland Jazz Chorus amps and don't care
: for them. I *DO* like the JC-120 but it's as big as my Twin.
: -Jaz
Jerome Engelberts
> I just picked up a Polytone Minibrute II to go along with my
> Gibson L-5. I've extremely disappointed with the amp. First of
> all, it's dry, cold, and sterile. That's quite an accomplishment
> since my L-5 sounds great even through my Fender Squier amp !
> Secondly, the reverb is terrible. Even cranked all the way, it's
> barely noticable. Thirdly, the amp crackles and hisses. You would
> think it was a tube amp with bad plate resistors.
Well, first of all, I've used numerous Polytone amps, and although some are
dogs, I would have to say the majority behaved quite well. It sounds like
(especially with the crackling-hissing part) you caught a lemon there.
I would concur that the tone of these amps isn't for everyone, but personally
I find them quite suitable for jazz (In which case I, too, use an L-5).
Having said that, and responding to the need for a small amp with enough
headroom for this kinda gig, I would say: if solid-state isn't a problem,
try finding an old Roland cube 40 (or 60), or a pair if you run any stereo
stuff. I used to own a pair of 40's, and they were always reliable, good
sounding with plenty'o'revoib, and light. Loud, too. Otherwise you could
always hook up a pair of Princetons (just one will probably not give you
all the clean headroom you want).
...just my two cents worth...
Jerome Engelberts
http://www.beezerk.com/guitars.html
Abe W. Mathews
: big amps that have the headroom and tone to get a great jazz tone at
: almost any volume but what I was after was a "one-hander"...Something
: I could walk into a club with and not have to make multiple trips to
: the car...Great for jam sessions, etc. Who wants to lug a Twin Reverb
: or 2 amps to a jam session ?
Jaz, I know what you mean.
I play primarily swing- and jump- style blues, and clean tone is more
important to me in an amp than screaming overdrive. I was looking for a
way to avoid hauling my Marshall Jubilee 2X12 combo, with preamps and
effects to the 30-seat clubs I found myself playing. I ended up with a
Boogie Studio 22+ and a Boss pedalboard. Holy grail? I'm not sure yet.
I'm still trying to get used to it. The Boogie definietly has clean
headroom. I can get a nice clean tone up to about 7 on the master, where
my guitar would start feeding back, anyway.
If you don't like the boogie (BTW, someone's selling a 22+ for $295 in VG
this month), then I have two other suggestions for you, and both of them
are made by Ampeg. The first one is something I just saw listed the other
day, a 50 watt version of their Jet reissue, with a single 12. If it
sounds as good as the little Jet, it'd be a winner.
The next suggestion I have is an Ampeg SS-70C. Yes, solid state, but its
70 watts with a single 12 and stereo chorus. I had the SS-140C (which was
essentially two of the SS-70C amps stuck together) for 6 years, and I
really regret selling it. 3 effects loops, direct outs, lots of other
features. Great tone, and I've seen the SS-70C going for as low as $250
at Daddy's Junky. If you want any more info about these amps, please feel
free to e-mail me.
Good luck-
Abe
awma...@mtu.edu
SwingDoug & Craig
> > Gibson L-5. I've extremely disappointed with the amp. First of
> > all, it's dry, cold, and sterile. That's quite an accomplishment
> > since my L-5 sounds great even through my Fender Squier amp !
> > Secondly, the reverb is terrible. Even cranked all the way, it's
> > barely noticable. Thirdly, the amp crackles and hisses. You would
> > think it was a tube amp with bad plate resistors.
> >
> > very little out there in the way of small, light, combo amps that
> > have alot of headroom and get a good jazz sound. I have an old
> > Twin Reverb which of course sounds beautiful with the L-5 but
> > I wanted something smaller for duo and trio gigs. I've tried
> > the various Fender solid state combos and they are too bright.
> > The small Fender tube amps sound good but the 20 watter doesn't have
> > enough headroom and the store was out of the Blues Deluxe 1x12 combo.
> > I suspect that at 40 watts, it probably does not have the headroom.
> > I've also tried the smaller Roland Jazz Chorus amps and don't care
> > for them. I *DO* like the JC-120 but it's as big as my Twin.
Wow...that is really surprising. I use a Mega-Brute with an 8"
speaker(sometimes with a Bose 802 extension)and I get a great tone, IMO.
Maybe it's just a personal preference, I don't know. Is it one of the new
ones, or the old models?
Just curious.
\\^// //////
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| .oooO Oooo. .oooO Ooooo. Our Page: Sweet Swing Jazz On The Web|
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Giri Iyengar
> >>Gibson L-5. I've extremely disappointed with the amp. First of
> >>all, it's dry, cold, and sterile.
I tried pointing this out on r.m.m.g.jazz. Needless to say, most people
disagreed pretty powerfully.
IMO, the great Polytone clean tone is a bloody myth.
Have you tried an Evans amp? I've never even seen one, but I've heard
some good things. According to their marketing "sell-sheet," they target
clean, harmonically clear tones. But they also claim that their amps
outdo tube amps at the very things that tubes are famous for. And then
they go on to list stuff like low microphonic noise, durability, etc. none
of which tubes are known for. I'm a little confused about that.
In any case, it may be worth tracking one down. I think all their amps
are 200W and not very light, if I recall correctly.
They do have a web-page with a link on Harmony Central's Manufacturers list.
..Giri
Kris Hartung
: This may sound like blasphemy, but I've gotten good results for such gigs
: Peavey Special 130 with a JBL, but that's a bit of overkill. Not very
: romantic, but it's relatively light and stays clean pretty loud. The
: worst part of those old Peaveys is the crappy Scorpian speakers; stick a
: different speaker in there and it's a different amp.
Not blasphemy at all. I own a Peavey Bravo 1 X 12 that has one of the
warmest and cleanest tones I've heard. Now I use it as a backup amp,
but at one time I liked it so much I patched it in through my rack
system to replace the clean channel of my Engl preamp. Installing the
EV is a great idea, however. I'll definitely do that.
kh
James Andrews
> Hmmm, I've hated every GK amp I've ever tried. A friend of mine
> who works for one of the biggest music stores in the country told
> me that the Blues Cubes sounded so bad that his store returned them
> all to Roland and indicated that they would not be carrying them.
> Crate does not have a good reputation for reliability!
I can't verify this (having only owned one Crate amp, an old one which I
beat to shit and it still works perfectly--for what that's worth on a
mid-1980s Crate), but I've heard that they've really done some serious
work on their quality lately.
Jas.
--
James Andrews
Philadelphia, PA
and...@ben.dev.upenn.edu
jand...@sas.upenn.edu
bjjh...@gnn.com
playing a hotel gig when the band that I was playing with was
approached by none other than the "Polytone Rep," who had several
Polytone amps with him. He offered to move our amps off the stage
and set up myself, the keyboard player and the bassist with the
latest Polytone had to offer. The amp that I used was a single 12,
50 watts or so, and it sounded absolutely awful with my Gibson 175.
Sterile is a good descriptor. Notes just died away. No warmth or
depth. I found it hard to believe that these amps were so popular
with jazz players (or anyone for that matter). The Polytone Rep
could not believe that a bunch of musicians playing at a hotel
didn't like his amps (I think he was trained to react this
way :-)).
Someone mentioned the Peavey Bandit 65. A guy left one of these at
my house for about a year. I used it for a while as my "one
hander." Not a bad sounding amp,IMHO, at all.
I've played pedal steel through an Evans. It was absolutely the
best sounding steel amp that I have ever heard. This amp was big
and heavy, with a 15" JBL. My experience has been that amps which
work well for steel (ie. Webb, Peavey 400) are less than
great for guitar.
Howard Steinberg
Dr.Peter M.Winter
i own an evans, too. the evans amp is the best modern (!) jazz amp i
have ever heard. it outpergorms easily a twin amp as long as you are
looking for a real clean tone with enormous headroom. compared to a twin
reverb the evans is not heavy, about 23 kg.
guitarits are strange: any other musician is happy to get a modern and
reliable instrument and amp. of course if you are looking for that old
twin tone a twin is the best amp, but there are better ones nowadays.
___________________________________________________________________
Dr.Peter M.Winter
A-1100 Humboldtgasse 20
(Privat: A-1190 Alfred-Wegenergasse3)
Austria/EUROPE
Reminder: Austria is in Europe, the kangaroos are hopping elsewhere !
___________________________________________________________________
Jon Nilsen
> Jon Nilsen wrote:
>
> > Try a GK Backline 100, a Roland Blues Cube (60-watt version), or, believe
> > it or not, the little Crate stereo chorus model (GX40?). If I had the
> > bucks, I'd own'em all.
>
> Hmmm, I've hated every GK amp I've ever tried. A friend of mine
> who works for one of the biggest music stores in the country told
> me that the Blues Cubes sounded so bad that his store returned them
> all to Roland and indicated that they would not be carrying them.
> Crate does not have a good reputation for reliability!
>
> I'll have to try the GK Backline. I think there's a local store
> that carries them.
>
> -Jaz
I don't want to diss your pal, but my brother has a 60-watt Blues Cube and
it's fantastic. It'll be my next amp, for certain. I recommended the Crate
because the clean channel is gorgeous, the reverb is good, and the stereo
chorus is top-notch. It's a helluva lot warmer-sounding than the JC 77s or
120s. They are assembly-line, but I've been bouncing my 130-watt stereo
chorus Crate around in the backs of trucks and trailers for over four
years, and I've never had a bit of trouble out of it, which is more than I
can say for any other amp I've ever owned (isn't Polytone supposed to have
a *good* reputation?). I'm recommending solid-states for your purposes
because the only small tube amp I ever tried that had clean headroom to
spare was a guy's Diaz 30-watter, and you could buy a house for what they
cost, plus you'll be on a waiting list 'til sometime after the turn of the
century.
One more way to go would be a hybrid. I've heard some nice things about
Hughes & Kettner's combos, but I haven't tried one myself. I tried the
Marshall Valvestate -- great rock 'n roll screamer, but IMHO the clean
channel needed help and the reverb was feeble.
I'd just say, don't go by what some guy tells you - including me -
try'em all. Somewhere there's a fine little jazz amp with your name on it.
--Jon Nilsen
Teleologist
>
> > In article <31D1F6...@en.com>, "Jack A. Zucker" <j...@en.com> wrote:
> >
> > >>I just picked up a Polytone Minibrute II to go along with my
> > >>Gibson L-5. I've extremely disappointed with the amp. First of
> > >>all, it's dry, cold, and sterile.
>
> I tried pointing this out on r.m.m.g.jazz. Needless to say, most people
> disagreed pretty powerfully.
> IMO, the great Polytone clean tone is a bloody myth.
>
Fender's Dual Professional. Are U listening Fender? Might I suggest 'Pro Amp'
for the name! :)
BTW, the most recent Dual Pro I ran across had 2 Vintage 30's in it & a list
price of $2600 - I didn't have time to try it out. The very early one I messed
with a while back had EV's in it & a price of $2995. Go figure :)
Jack A. Zucker
> I don't want to diss your pal, but my brother has a 60-watt Blues Cube and
> it's fantastic. It'll be my next amp, for certain. I recommended the Crate
First of all, my pal is a buyer for possibly the largest music store in the
country. Diss all you want, the deal is done. They sent them back.
I went down to a local store here and played the Blues Cube. For clean, it
was awful. More sterile than the Polytone, which is saying alot. The
Fender Blues Deluxe 1x12 was nice sounding on the other hand but does not
have enough headroom and is a little too heavy for my purposes. (Remember,
I already have larger tube amps that sound great for clean)
-Jaz
Jack A. Zucker
> Fender's Dual Professional. Are U listening Fender? Might I suggest 'Pro Amp'
> for the name! :)
Why not simply make the VibroKing in a head or 1x12 combo ? I've
often wondered why Fender didn't do that. I really love the Vibroking
but do not like those alnico 10" speakers (or the weight).
-Jaz
Teleologist
suspect there are differences in more than just the power amp circuitry. One I
know of; the DP uses a 6V6 reverb drive tube vs. the Vibro's EL84.
A 1x12 VibroKing would be just fine with me though, IF they added some clean
headroom. :)
Scott A Warren
I got a chance to try a prototype of the Ampeg SuperJet, which may also
fit the bill. It appears to be a Jet chassis with two el34 output tubes
making about 50 watts into the 1x12 speaker. Its only a single channel,
but has a footswitchable boost which sounds like it adds a gain stage. It
also has reverb. This thing was small, fairly light (for a 50 watt tube
amp) and loud. Supposed to be available at the end of July.
SAW
Eddy Skipwith
clean sounding amps, with good tone/headroom......
I bought a used acoustic G60-112 yesterday for $150. (..After trying out
several side by side in a store owned by a friend.) Beaucoups of
headroom with clean mellow jazz sound, using my 175. Definitely a
"one-hander" at 15"w x 18"tall x 10"deep. 60 watts solid state w/
'verb. Loud enough for small club performances. If you see one, try it
out and see what you think.
Laizzez les bon temps roulez!
Eduardo
Jeff Olsen
>Dale H. Marsh wrote:
>>
>> It seems as if you have more experience trying various smaller amps than
>> I, but perhaps if generous clean headroom is required a Twin-sized amp or
>> TWO smaller tube amps may be required.
>Well with what is offered in todays market, you're certainly right from
>what I've seen. In the past, I've used a Fender Princeton Reverb for
>solo and duo gigs and a Deluxe works even better but they are both
>useless with a drummer. Remember also that as quiet as jazz drummers
>played in the '60s, Wes still used a Twin Reverb ! On the other hand,
>the Polytone I tried was plenty loud, had enough headroom to satisfy
>a loud drummer and electric bass but just had poor tone. I have several
>big amps that have the headroom and tone to get a great jazz tone at
>almost any volume but what I was after was a "one-hander"...Something
>I could walk into a club with and not have to make multiple trips to
>the car...Great for jam sessions, etc. Who wants to lug a Twin Reverb
>or 2 amps to a jam session ?
>-Jaz
Two things that come to mind are that a Deluxe driving an efficient 2nd
speaker, like an EV, is quite a bit louder; also, if you ever see a Music
Man 1x10 those suckers can get LOUD with a good speaker and are very
small (but heavy).
Whoever invents a good sounding, small, light transducer will be a rich
person...
-jeff
Ron Gonzalez
> : big amps that have the headroom and tone to get a great jazz tone at
> : almost any volume but what I was after was a "one-hander"...Something
> : I could walk into a club with and not have to make multiple trips to
> : the car...Great for jam sessions, etc. Who wants to lug a Twin Reverb
> : or 2 amps to a jam session ?
>
>
> I play primarily swing- and jump- style blues, and clean tone is more
> important to me in an amp than screaming overdrive. I was looking for a
> way to avoid hauling my Marshall Jubilee 2X12 combo, with preamps and
> effects to the 30-seat clubs I found myself playing. I ended up with a
> Boogie Studio 22+ and a Boss pedalboard. Holy grail? I'm not sure yet.
> I'm still trying to get used to it. The Boogie definietly has clean
> headroom. I can get a nice clean tone up to about 7 on the master, where
> my guitar would start feeding back, anyway.
>
You play swing with a Boogie? I used a Studio 22 in a studio once, and
found it to be pleasantly warm toned but grungy (it WANTED to distort).
It also had no low end oomph (little 6BQ5 outputs). I find Boogie amps'
tone control circuits to be nasty sounding for jazz guitar. If you want
to hear a really cool 20 watt amp for a killin' Charlie Christian type
sound try an original Ampeg Jet (with 7591 outputs), or any 50's Gibson
amp. Unfortunately, the new Jet re-issue uses Sovtek 6BQ5's, which are
not the greatest. Maybe if they were replaced with Sovtek EL84M? Those
are really good, IMHO.
I used to play swing and jump jazz thru an old Jet and it was just the
right thing (w/ a 70's Gibson Howard Roberts guitar). I think you can
still find old Jets for under $400 (worth it!). I now use a Fender
Deluxe Reverb modified to 35 watts (new Xfrmr's) with an Ampeg Gemini
style tone control circuit in the Normal channel for "old fashioned"
sounds.
Ron Gonzalez
>
> > In article <31D1F6...@en.com>, "Jack A. Zucker" <j...@en.com> wrote:
> >
> > >>I just picked up a Polytone Minibrute II to go along with my
> > >>Gibson L-5. I've extremely disappointed with the amp. First of
> > >>all, it's dry, cold, and sterile.
>
> I tried pointing this out on r.m.m.g.jazz. Needless to say, most people
> disagreed pretty powerfully.
> IMO, the great Polytone clean tone is a bloody myth.
Here's something different... Where I work (New School Jazz) we have
twenty new Mini Brute IV's (w/ 15" spkr and rev, dist, etc). These amps
sound really nice and fat (I use a 70's oval-hole Howard Roberts with a
PAF installed). Then we ordered a couple of Mini Brute II's (same amp,
12" spkr). The II's SUCK! BUT... some people like them better than the
IV's! I, for one, don't get it. We also have a nice silver face Super
Reverb that most guitarists love, but some actually prefer to use a
Roland JC-120!?! One fabulous young guitarist tried out a really nice
sounding Twin Reverb I had for sale, and after a few minutes said he
didn't know how to get a sound out of it and ran upstairs to grab one of
our old Mini Brute II's (this was before we got the new ones in).
My point is that whether or not you like the sound of a particular amp
is so subjective a decision as to make a discussion about it an exercise
in futility. One person's "warm" is another person's "dirty" is another
person's "murky" is another person's "clean"! I mean I could start a war
by saying that I like the sound of an early 70's Twin Reverb with
Sylvania 6L6GC's and Altec speakers in it for a clean jazz tone!
Blasphemy you say! Everyone knows that only Black Face Twins with RCA
6L6GC's sound any good! And only Alnico Jensen's are worthy of use in a
classic guitar amp!
Well, for the record, I never met a pre-1977 tubed Fender I didn't like.
And I found the Peavey Bandit to sound clean, but with a really fierce
top-end. But a good Fender Deluxe Reverb or Ampeg Jet will sound
fabulous with a Scorpion speaker.
Ron G.
Jack A. Zucker
>
> Here's something different... Where I work (New School Jazz) we have
> twenty new Mini Brute IV's (w/ 15" spkr and rev, dist, etc). These amps
> sound really nice and fat (I use a 70's oval-hole Howard Roberts with a
> PAF installed).
Well with all due respect to Ron, my experience with 15" speakers and
hollow body guitars has not been a good one. They sound great for
solo guitar work for sure. Duo and quiet trio gigs (where the drummer
uses brushes) is ok too. The problem seems to be when you play with
a loud drummer or a loud sax player.
(Try playing with Joe Lovano with a Mini Brute IV and an L-5 for example !)
My friend Paul Bollenback who plays with Joey Defrancesco had to go
to a rack based setup and a semi-hollow guitar to get the volume
necessary to keep up with Joey.
Many of the modern jazz guitarists have switched to semi-hollow or
solid body guitars. Most of them run in stereo in order to have
more of a sonic footprint in order to keep up with the amplified
bass players, and modern drummers, etc. Wes had enough trouble with
a Twin Reverb. I can only imagine what he'd be going through today.
What are some of the other young jazz guitarists (who use hollow bodies)
playing their guitars through these days ?
BTW, Pat Martino gets a great sound with his solid body (pre Parker Fly).
I have not heard him with the "fly" yet.
-Jaz
Jack A. Zucker
>
> to my opinion polytone HAS an excellent tone with certain guitars.
Which guitars would those be ? :-)
>
> guitarits are strange: any other musician is happy to get a modern and
> reliable instrument and amp.
Not true at all ! Acoustic bass players pay $10,000 for a poor-mediocre
instrument, change pickups every 2 years and are never happy. Electric
bass players are always struggling for that elusive "upright" tone.
> of course if you are looking for that old
> twin tone a twin is the best amp, but there are better ones nowadays.
>
...Take a listen to Wes Montgomery's "While We're Young" and tell me
how you improve upon *THAT*! :-)
On the other hand, I also enjoy the freedom that one can get playing
a semi-hollowbody guitar with a Rat, Stereo Chorus, and light strings.
For that, something like a JC-120 works fine.
-Jaz
--
>
> Jack A. Zucker | ESP Music
> j...@gwis.com (or) | Voice: 216 349 5881 (home)
Enter Name Here
>> of course if you are looking for that old
>> twin tone a twin is the best amp, but there are better ones nowadays.
>>
>
>...Take a listen to Wes Montgomery's "While We're Young" and tell me
>how you improve upon *THAT*! :-)
>
I would like to listen to Wes Montgomery's "While We're Young". Can you
please tell me what album that song is on.
Thanks
Jeffrey
Jack A. Zucker
Lawson G. Stone wrote:
>
> A lot of people say they like the Fender Twin Reverb, but lament it's
> size.
...Regarding a cart.
Yes, I've done that for years. My amp is in a head configuration
(utilizing a head cab that I made) along with a seperate 2x12 cab.
I have not found a folding cart that can hold the head and cab
together.
Oh well, the answer for now is (gasp) make 2 trips to the car !
(Especially since I just bought a Dr. Z Prescription amp which is
a head and amazingly enough has a fantastic jazz sound!)
Bob Patterson
Jack A. Zucker wrote:
>
> ...Take a listen to Wes Montgomery's "While We're Young" and tell me
> how you improve upon *THAT*! :-)
>
> --
> >
> > Jack A. Zucker | ESP Music
> > j...@gwis.com (or) | Voice: 216 349 5881 (home)
> > Jack....@software.rockwell.com | Voice: 216 646 7796 (work)
> > | Fax: 216 646 7766 (work)
Actually, Wes played a Standel solid state most of the time. It was his
"least disfavored" amp, considering how he was never satisfied with his
amp sound.
--
Bob Patterson
b...@jazzguitar.com
JAZZ GUITAR ONLINE
http://www.jazzguitar.com
le...@sco.com
Bob Patterson wrote:
> Actually, Wes played a Standel solid state most of the time. It was his
> "least disfavored" amp, considering how he was never satisfied with his
> amp sound.
> --
I'm glad you mentioned that.
I saw Wes play at the Lighthouse in Huntington Beach, CA
circa 1967 I think.
He was using a huge Standel Artist solid state amp.
Sounded great to my 14 year-old ears at the time!
-Bill
Nick Koutsoukis
"Jack A. Zucker" <pj...@en.com> wrote:
>Why not simply make the VibroKing in a head or 1x12 combo ? I've
>often wondered why Fender didn't do that. I really love the Vibroking
>but do not like those alnico 10" speakers (or the weight).
I hooked up my Vibroking to the 12" EVM in my Boogie MkII and it sounded
great! But I agree with other posts re: Vibroking headroom. I don't think
that amp was made to be a headroom monster, but rather an amp to be
exploited at the edge of power-amp distortion. I've gotten into having mine
just to the point before breakup for a country-swing Tele-jazz type of
sound, and its a great sound. But its a heavy amp. Might as well use a Twin
for good, clean tone (I'm on the verge of getting one again). By the way, a
friend of mine has a BF Vibrolux which he altered by taking out the 2 tens
and replacing them with one old 12" SRO. It sounds really great with my
ES175. Really light weight amp! Not as much headroom or sound stage as a
Vibroking or Super or Twin though. I think the dispersion of a 2x12 or 3x10
or 4x10 amp has a lot to do with its appeal, ironically, for a low-key jazz
gig. I like it when the amps loud enough so that I can retain the dynamics
of my alternate picking without having to bear down to be heard. The best
scenerio for that, for jazz, IMO is BIG AMP/quiet gig.
Kris Hartung
: You play swing with a Boogie? I used a Studio 22 in a studio once, and
: found it to be pleasantly warm toned but grungy (it WANTED to distort).
: It also had no low end oomph (little 6BQ5 outputs). I find Boogie amps'
: tone control circuits to be nasty sounding for jazz guitar. If you want
: to hear a really cool 20 watt amp for a killin' Charlie Christian type
: sound try an original Ampeg Jet (with 7591 outputs), or any 50's Gibson
: amp. Unfortunately, the new Jet re-issue uses Sovtek 6BQ5's, which are
: not the greatest. Maybe if they were replaced with Sovtek EL84M? Those
: are really good, IMHO.
A Studio 22. . .well of course the little sucker wanted to distort! That's
like trying to get a bassy Pass sound out of a Pig Nose. There's nothing
wrong with Boogie for jazz, but you've got to have headroom. Take a
Mark I, 1 X 12 combo with the 200 watt EVM speaker, add a sealed 1 X 15
extension cab, and a rack mount parametric EQ, and you can play ANY
jazz tune with any tone you like within reason. The Mark I delivers 60
or 100 watts (switchable). If 100 isn't enough for headroom, then try
buying a PA and micing your system. An amp in the 20-40 watt range just
won't cut it on those jazz tones where the highs are rolled off. The low
end sucks up too much power. Either your preamp will distort,
or your speakers will if it's not hefty enough.
I think any quality combo amp will work for someone if if the speaker and
amp wattage is high enough and not in some abnormal ratio as to cause
speaker or preamp distortion. A high quality EQ can take care of the
rest of one's tonal desires.
kh
Jack A. Zucker
Kris Hartung wrote:
>
> Take a
> Mark I, 1 X 12 combo with the 200 watt EVM speaker, add a sealed 1 X 15
> extension cab, and a rack mount parametric EQ, and you can play ANY
> jazz tune with any tone you like within reason.
My original request was a jazz guitar amp that was a "one-hander". The
best jazz sound I ever got was a rack mount system with a Boogie Studio
Preamp, Alesis RA-100 poweramp, Korg A-2 effects processor, 2 open back
Boogie Cabs with 1x12 EV12L speakers. Unfortunately, that got a little
hard to carry ! :-)
Rosie666
>Unfortunately, there is
>very little out there in the way of small, light, combo amps that
>have alot of headroom and get a good jazz sound. I have an old
>Twin Reverb which of course sounds beautiful with the L-5 but
>I wanted something smaller for duo and trio gigs.
If you can get enough volume from a Fender Princeton, there's your answer.
Is there a 30-50 watt Fender tube amp that isn't too heavy?
Nigel Skeels
In article <31DCFD...@gwis.com>, j...@gwis.com says...
Do yourself a favour, Forget all that Marshall rubbish,get yourself a
GOOD English amp, Get a Laney World Series. Its all you need for a vast
rage of tones!
Nick Schepis
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@gwis.com> wrote:
>My original request was a jazz guitar amp that was a "one-hander". The
>best jazz sound I ever got was a rack mount system with a Boogie Studio
>Preamp, Alesis RA-100 poweramp, Korg A-2 effects processor, 2 open back
>Boogie Cabs with 1x12 EV12L speakers. Unfortunately, that got a little
>hard to carry ! :-)
By no means a reccomendation by me, as this is not my field, but I have a
friend who is a hard core jazzer, who went through a load of small amps
looking for a portable amp and he settled on a Peavey Special 130 with a
12" Black Widow. He gets a lot of flack, but he says it does the job at
more bang for the pound than any Polytone he ever tried.
NS
Kris Hartung
Jack A. Zucker (j...@gwis.com) wrote:
: Kris Hartung wrote:
: >
: > Take a
: > Mark I, 1 X 12 combo with the 200 watt EVM speaker, add a sealed 1 X 15
: > extension cab, and a rack mount parametric EQ, and you can play ANY
: > jazz tune with any tone you like within reason.
: My original request was a jazz guitar amp that was a "one-hander". The
: best jazz sound I ever got was a rack mount system with a Boogie Studio
: Preamp, Alesis RA-100 poweramp, Korg A-2 effects processor, 2 open back
: Boogie Cabs with 1x12 EV12L speakers. Unfortunately, that got a little
: hard to carry ! :-)
I don't think there is such an amp. . . a one-hander, that is. There are
tons of little one-handers that have an excellent clean sound with
lots of headroom, but this headroom thing is meaningless without
making reference to volume. A one-hander with a clean tone, lots of
head room, and enough volume to compete with the stage volumes of a
couple horns, piano, and drums, exists only in guitarists' dreams. It's
just not going to happen without micing the speaker. I mean, how much volume
is expected to come out of a little 1 speaker amp 18 inches tall and wide?
I guess one can just look for an amp that packs as much speaker wattage
and amp wattage in that little space as physically possible, and then
just deal with the fact that it weighs nearly 100 pounds. The Mark I
fits this description, but it's a matter of taste when it comes to
the Boogie sound. There are no objective criteria for taste, but there
are for headroom at given volume levels.
kh
Jim Kroger
I dunno.....I've seen Ron Anthony play here in Los Angeles several times
(he is Sinatra's guitar player and darn good, as is his band). There are
usually one or two horns, a miked piano, a loud drummer, and bass, and he
plays through a little 10 incher Polytone that looks the size of a bowling
ball box and has no trouble in a medium to large sized clubs rising above
the band for his gorgeous solo lines with no discernible loss in headroom.
Or maybe it's that $50,000 D'Angelico he plays through it...anyway, he
sure gets a good sound.
Jim
In article <4rrhve$j...@hpbs2500.boi.hp.com>, khar...@boi.hp.com (Kris
Jack A. Zucker
Kris Hartung wrote:
>
> I don't think there is such an amp. . . a one-hander, that is. There are
> tons of little one-handers that have an excellent clean sound with
> lots of headroom
Excellent article Kris. I agree 100%.
Incidentally, I recently read a George Benson interview. His amp
setup consists of a Fender Twin (for articulation of fast flurries
according to George) and a Polytone 104. I can't remember what the
104 is but it's one of the bigger ones with either a 15" or perhaps
3 speakers.
I think perhaps the key issue is the fact that a single 12" speaker
is never going to get a great jazz guitar sound in a *LOUD* group
unless it's miked.
I have yet to try an Evans amp but many people have raved about them.
My plan is to continue using my Twin for loud jazz gigs. Perhaps
I'll get another Polytone for use at smaller gigs. One thing that
could use improvement is the Polytone speaker. Unfortunately, my
recollection is that Polytone used a 2 ohm speaker. Does anyone
know for sure about that ?
-Jaz
Jack A. Zucker
Jim Kroger wrote:
>
> I dunno.....I've seen Ron Anthony play here in Los Angeles several times
Are you sure he's not miked ?
-Jaz
Kris Hartung
: >
: > I don't think there is such an amp. . . a one-hander, that is. There are
: > tons of little one-handers that have an excellent clean sound with
: > lots of headroom
: Excellent article Kris. I agree 100%.
: Incidentally, I recently read a George Benson interview. His amp
: setup consists of a Fender Twin (for articulation of fast flurries
: according to George) and a Polytone 104. I can't remember what the
: 104 is but it's one of the bigger ones with either a 15" or perhaps
: 3 speakers.
He probably uses the two simultaneously, with the Polytone providing
more clean, low end to his over-all sound.
: I think perhaps the key issue is the fact that a single 12" speaker
: is never going to get a great jazz guitar sound in a *LOUD* group
: unless it's miked.
Yes, definitely a key issue, which is why I suggested earlier to use
a 1 X 12 or 1 X 15 sealed extension cab with a 1 X 12 combo, given
that the wattage is sufficient to push the extra cabinet without
breaking up. Even a sealed 12 inch would pack some punch in the
lower frequency range. Another advantage is that the extension can
be positioned so others in the band can hear what the guitar player
is doing without having to turn UP the 1 X 12 combo. This system is
still easier to carry than a rack, and it is versatile, because in
a smaller venue, one can simply leave the extension behind.
: I have yet to try an Evans amp but many people have raved about them.
I have been hearing all sorts of things about these amps too. I've
seen the web page for them, but no technical information or prices
were provided. Who uses them?
Just as a note for any who are interested. The camera panned past
Eubank's system on the tonight show (July 8) and I caught a glimse
of the combo amp he was using on a stand directly behind him -
It was a Mesa Boogie Maverick with a wopping 35 watts! It was
miced, of course. I guess someone finds something redeeming about
Boogie when it comes to jazz fusion. I'm not sure what he used on
his recent album, however.
: My plan is to continue using my Twin for loud jazz gigs. Perhaps
: I'll get another Polytone for use at smaller gigs. One thing that
: could use improvement is the Polytone speaker. Unfortunately, my
: recollection is that Polytone used a 2 ohm speaker. Does anyone
: know for sure about that ?
I'm not sure, but I heard a little 1 X 10 Polytone, one of the old
mini-brutes, the other day and it shook the windows of the store.
I'm thinking of buying it, for the purpose of sit in gigs. It
doesn't have reverb, but I can alway plug into some cheap pedal.
The mini-brute is incredibly light for the sound that comes out
of it. In fact, I found myself walking around the amp while the
guy was playing through it, gazing in disbelief. . .where is this
sound coming from. . .and in a 12 inch cube?
Kris
Jack A. Zucker
Kris Hartung wrote:
> Just as a note for any who are interested. The camera panned past
> Eubank's system on the tonight show (July 8) and I caught a glimse
> of the combo amp he was using on a stand directly behind him -
> It was a Mesa Boogie Maverick with a wopping 35 watts! It was
> miced, of course. I guess someone finds something redeeming about
> Boogie when it comes to jazz fusion.
I'm not sure what you mean by the last comment but I really like
the Maverick. It's my favorite of the current line of Boogies.
It's got a really transparent clean tone and a really sweet
screaming lead sound.
On another note, I don't understand why they don't reissue the
MK IIC+ though. It seems to me that it would be more popular
than the MK I reissue.
-Jaz
Karen-Marlies Schenck
Jack A. Zucker wrote:
.
> (snip)
> On another note, I don't understand why they don't reissue the
> MK IIC+ though. It seems to me that it would be more popular
> than the MK I reissue.
>
> -Jaz
They probably reissued the Mark I because just the name and Image sound
way more "vintagey" and "historic" than something like Mark IIc+. I
think in a lot of cases the mythology of a product makes it a better
choice for reissueing (in terms of prospective sales) than the actual
sound.
Walter Broes
Karen-Marlies Schenck
Kris Hartung wrote:
The original Mark II had the option
> of a 15 inch speaker, which is ideal for the jazz guitarist. It
> really urks me that they don't sell this anymore, just as Fender
> doesn't reissue the Fender Pro Amp 1X 15 combo.
Fender has a new amp out that's not exactly a reissue, called the
"Vibrasonic". It seems to be something like a modified '65 twin chassis
in a combo with a 15 inch speaker.
Anyone tried it yet?
Walter Broes
Jack A. Zucker
I've been looking for a small "one-hander" amp for use in jazz clubs
and other small venues. I've found it. It's a: <drum-roll please>
Gallien-Krueger Backline 100.
It's a nice little amp. It's got 100 watts in a small open-back
enclosure with an Emminence speaker. It's got 2 channels, one is
voiced for distorted rock-type stuff and the other is clean. It
features channel switching, tone control voicing switches, presence,
reverb, effects loop, etc. With a hollowbody guitar like my Gibson
L-5, the thing sounds very good. It reminds me of CTI Vintage
George Benson in tone. It also does a credible "saturated fusion"
tone with my solid body guitars in the lead channel.
Don't get me wrong, this thing ain't no Dr. Z amp but for small
solo, duo, or trio gigs where you want to get in and out with a
minimum of hassle, this amp may be just the ticket for you. I
previously had borrowed a Polytone Mini-Brute II but it turned
out to be a dud. It was dull, sterile, and lifeless whereas the
GK has some character to it. The GK is a tad bright for my tastes
and even with the presence and treble controls on 3, there was
too much treble. Fortunately, turning the tone down to 5 on the
L-5 seemed to cure that problem.
The price is right around $500.
Perhaps someone would comment on GK's reliability. Any of you techs
out there have experience repairing these ?
Brian Rost
> Perhaps someone would comment on GK's reliability. Any of you techs
> out there have experience repairing these ?
>
Some of the early specimens of the RB/MB/ML amp series tended to blow up
(usually the power transistors); a number of my friends who owned them in
the 80s had them in and out of the shop a few times. GK seems to have
ironed that one out a long time ago, as the 400RB and 800RB bass amps sold
today appear to be bulletproof.
Since most of the GKs are very compact, they use surface mount pots and
jacks (with the usual problems if they get abused) in a lot of them, not
sure what they use in the (larger) Backline.
--
Brian Rost
3Com Corp.
508-264-1550
br...@synnet.com
*********************************************************************
"These guys are sitting on wooden chairs playing
electric instruments; it would be better if they were
sitting on electric chairs playing wooden instruments."
Die Tat, Zurich newspaper
*********************************************************************
Kris Hartung
: > Just as a note for any who are interested. The camera panned past
: > Eubank's system on the tonight show (July 8) and I caught a glimse
: > of the combo amp he was using on a stand directly behind him -
: > It was a Mesa Boogie Maverick with a wopping 35 watts! It was
: > miced, of course. I guess someone finds something redeeming about
: > Boogie when it comes to jazz fusion.
: I'm not sure what you mean by the last comment but I really like
: the Maverick. It's my favorite of the current line of Boogies.
: It's got a really transparent clean tone and a really sweet
: screaming lead sound.
Oh, it was in admiration of Boogie totally. I just bought a new Mark
I which should be here in 4 or 5 weeks. I had them load it with
the 200 watt EVM, which I will be replacing with a higher grade
EV (the 200 watt EV-L), and using the EVM for a backup combo amp
I keep on the side. My point was to illustrate that sound is more
important than volume, hence the reference to 35 watts and the mic.
I considered the Marverick as well, but I really don't need a
high gain channel, and so the Mark I suites my needs perfectly.
:
: On another note, I don't understand why they don't reissue the
: MK IIC+ though. It seems to me that it would be more popular
: than the MK I reissue.
Yes, that is very unfortunate. The original Mark II had the option
of a 15 inch speaker, which is ideal for the jazz guitarist. It
really urks me that they don't sell this anymore, just as Fender
doesn't reissue the Fender Pro Amp 1X 15 combo.
kh
Carl Fiadino
>
>On another note, I don't understand why they don't reissue the
>MK IIC+ though. It seems to me that it would be more popular
>than the MK I reissue.
>
>-Jaz
Yes, then I can obtain the elusive Night Ranger sound! CF
Perry Roper
Jack A. Zucker wrote:
> (Especially since I just bought a Dr. Z Prescription amp which is
> a head and amazingly enough has a fantastic jazz sound!)
What speakers are you using with your RX? Glad to hear you landed a Z!
Perry
Akbar Anwari
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@gwis.com> wrote:
>Perhaps someone would comment on GK's reliability. Any of you techs
>out there have experience repairing these ?
I've never worked on one, but a friend has. I guess their pretty
reliable, but when they break, it's a PITA to fix.
Kap'n
tomb...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
In article <4s1bdd$8...@bcs3.bccom.com> Carl Fiadino <fia...@bccom.com> writes:
>
>Yes, then I can obtain the elusive Night Ranger sound! CF
Yeah, he was great, eh? He had sort of a "Nightstalker meets Lone Ranger"
kind of thing going on, although some folks say he was just an SRV clone.
roland kalus
Hi Jack,
nice to see a "serious" posting of you.... You are already a "legend"
in this newgroup...
O.K. I checked the Backline amp a few days ago and agree that the
clean sound is great. But as all combo amps with just one 12" speaker
it has kind of a narrow sound. All in all this amp is a bargain.
I bougth me a Fender Blues de ville yesterday, it's a Bassman replica
equiped with four 10" speakers (Jensen replica). So if someone is
looking for a "modern" vintage amp with lots of power the Blues de
Ville would be a good choice. I played it with solidbodies (Strat,
PRS) as well as with semiaccoustic and hollow-bodies (ES 335, ES 175)
and the amp reacts very very sensitive to any guitar. A very warm
sound and very very loud!
Cheers
Roland
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@gwis.com> wrote:
>I've been looking for a small "one-hander" amp for use in jazz clubs
>and other small venues. I've found it. It's a: <drum-roll please>
>Gallien-Krueger Backline 100.
>It's a nice little amp. It's got 100 watts in a small open-back
>enclosure with an Emminence speaker. It's got 2 channels, one is
>voiced for distorted rock-type stuff and the other is clean. It
>features channel switching, tone control voicing switches, presence,
>reverb, effects loop, etc. With a hollowbody guitar like my Gibson
>L-5, the thing sounds very good. It reminds me of CTI Vintage
>George Benson in tone. It also does a credible "saturated fusion"
>tone with my solid body guitars in the lead channel.
>Don't get me wrong, this thing ain't no Dr. Z amp but for small
>solo, duo, or trio gigs where you want to get in and out with a
>minimum of hassle, this amp may be just the ticket for you. I
>previously had borrowed a Polytone Mini-Brute II but it turned
>out to be a dud. It was dull, sterile, and lifeless whereas the
>GK has some character to it. The GK is a tad bright for my tastes
>and even with the presence and treble controls on 3, there was
>too much treble. Fortunately, turning the tone down to 5 on the
>L-5 seemed to cure that problem.
>The price is right around $500.
>Perhaps someone would comment on GK's reliability. Any of you techs
>out there have experience repairing these ?
>-Jaz
Jack A. Zucker
roland kalus wrote:
>
> Hi Jack,
>
> nice to see a "serious" posting of you.... You are already a "legend"
> in this newgroup...
>
> O.K. I checked the Backline amp a few days ago and agree that the
> clean sound is great. But as all combo amps with just one 12" speaker
> it has kind of a narrow sound. All in all this amp is a bargain.
>
Yes, I agree 100%. It sounds much better through a 2x12 cab.
I found the sound to be much less "narrow" than the 1x12
Polytone however.
Regarding your Blues Deville, I also thought that it sounded
excellent. It was just a little too heavy to meet my "one-hander"
requirements ! (Especially since I have my Fender Twin for
louder gigs)
Giri Iyengar
Talking about 15" speakers, has anyone tried THD's 1x15 combo? I don't
think they make them anymore, but I see an ad for one occasionally.
..Giri
Jack A. Zucker
> in a combo with a 15 inch speaker.
> Anyone tried it yet?
>
> Walter Broes
Yes, it's fantastic. It also uses the New Sensor/Emminence
15" Sound Reinforcement speaker. It sounded good enough
that I may try the 12" version. It was like an EV but
without the nasty midrange spike.
-Jaz
Lawson G. Stone
Does anyone know if anybody at Polytone reads this newsgroup? I have had
reason to call Polytone about various things over the last 3 years and
always found them friendly and responsive. I really think they ought to
be in on these discussions, since if they lose the jazz guitarist
market, they've lost their whole market. If anyone on this group has a
contact in Polytone, invite them in on this discussion. It would be nice
to have a primary source.
--
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////////////////
Lawson G. Stone-Asbury Theological Seminary-Wilmore, KY
////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Prediction is very difficult, especially of the future.
--Niels Bohr
Jack A. Zucker
Lawson G. Stone wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if anybody at Polytone reads this newsgroup? I have had
> reason to call Polytone about various things over the last 3 years and
> always found them friendly and responsive. I really think they ought to
> be in on these discussions, since if they lose the jazz guitarist
> market, they've lost their whole market
I don't know if they read it or not but their market is not just jazz
players. If it were, they would be out of business 'cuz there aren't
enough jazz guitar players around to sustain a business. Their business
is the "clubdate" and "casual" player. Particularly the guys who have
been in the business for a while and are tired of shlepping around
large and heavy amps. My dad is a bass player in the Washington DC
area. During the 60's, he was one of the first "clubdate" players
to use a Fender bass. At that time, he used an Ampeg (B-15)bass amp.
This was ideal for "clubdates" because it was a "self-contained"
unit and didn't require a seperate trip to the car for the cabinet.
Later on, he switched to Polytone for the convenience of the light
weight and small size.
Having done a ton of "clubdates" in the DC area, my experience was
that the older guys used Polytones, and the younger guys were
willing to haul a larger and more full sounding rig around.
Interestingly, he recently decided that the extra weight was worth
getting a sound he liked and he bought a small GK head that fits in
a shoulder bag and a seperate cab.
...Anyway sorry about the rambling, I have not had my first cup of
coffee this morning...
Kelly Curtis
Yup. I'm ordering one of the new Peavey Vintage 30 watt Tweeds next week.
Try one and see what you think. That's what I'm going to do. Let me know
what you think.
Jack A. Zucker
Olav W Bertelsen wrote:> My recollection is that Polytone used a 2 ohm speaker.
>
> i think that solid state amps are fairly tolerant when it comes to
> speaker impedance
Yeah but replacing a 2ohm speaker with an 8ohm speaker, I will lose
a significant amount of volume !
-Jaz
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David N. Barnett
br...@synnet.com (Brian Rost) wrote:
>...the 400RB and 800RB bass amps sold
>today appear to be bulletproof.
And, in my opinion, toneproof as well.
--dnb
Michael Buckmaster
> : > Mark I, 1 X 12 combo with the 200 watt EVM speaker, add a sealed 1 X 15
> : > extension cab, and a rack mount parametric EQ, and you can play ANY
> : > jazz tune with any tone you like within reason.
>
> : My original request was a jazz guitar amp that was a "one-hander". The
> : best jazz sound I ever got was a rack mount system with a Boogie Studio
> : Preamp, Alesis RA-100 poweramp, Korg A-2 effects processor, 2 open back
> : Boogie Cabs with 1x12 EV12L speakers. Unfortunately, that got a little
> : hard to carry ! :-)
>
> tons of little one-handers that have an excellent clean sound with
> making reference to volume. A one-hander with a clean tone, lots of
> head room, and enough volume to compete with the stage volumes of a
> couple horns, piano, and drums, exists only in guitarists' dreams. It's
> just not going to happen without micing the speaker. I mean, how much volume
> is expected to come out of a little 1 speaker amp 18 inches tall and wide?
> I guess one can just look for an amp that packs as much speaker wattage
> and amp wattage in that little space as physically possible, and then
> just deal with the fact that it weighs nearly 100 pounds. The Mark I
> fits this description, but it's a matter of taste when it comes to
> the Boogie sound. There are no objective criteria for taste, but there
> are for headroom at given volume levels.
>
> kh
>
I've recently purchased a Fender Vibrolux Reverb amp. It's 40 watts, 2-10" speakers,
fantastic tone, and reasonably light. It sounds great with my archtops, solidbodies, and
semi-solids. Very versatile.
I am an amputee, and I can carry this amp in one hand while I walk on crutcthes. Try
one! It's a little pricey, but I anticipate owning this one for a long, long time.
MJB
Ron Gonzalez
Jack A. Zucker wrote:
>
> Kris Hartung wrote:
> >
> > I don't think there is such an amp. . . a one-hander, that is. There are
> > tons of little one-handers that have an excellent clean sound with
>
> Excellent article Kris. I agree 100%.
> Incidentally, I recently read a George Benson interview. His amp
> setup consists of a Fender Twin (for articulation of fast flurries
> according to George) and a Polytone 104. I can't remember what the
> 104 is but it's one of the bigger ones with either a 15" or perhaps
> 3 speakers.
>
> is never going to get a great jazz guitar sound in a *LOUD* group
> unless it's miked.
>
>
> could use improvement is the Polytone speaker. Unfortunately, my
> recollection is that Polytone used a 2 ohm speaker. Does anyone
> know for sure about that ?
>
Jaz,
The Polytone MB III's I've seen use 4 ohm spkrs.
RG
Teleologist
Joe Bac wrote:
>
> Gee, I've been away for a while but sort of caught up on this jazz amp
> discussion. Instead of a twin reverb (which imho is the right amp unless
> you don't want to lug it around) my choice would be some Boogie MK series.
> But if one considers a 1x12 boogie combo to still be a block of cement,
> then get a head version.
Actually, depending on the speakers in the Twin Reverb, a 90W Boogie combo is
actually heavier - about 70 lbs vs. 65 lbs for a Twin with Jensens.
Don't know if stairs are an issue, but check out the Rock & Roller hand trucks.
AMS & I think Musicians Friend show them in their catalog. The 'little' one
weighs 20 lbs, can carry 350 lbs, and costs about $100. They can be configured
as a 4 wheel flat truck or a 2 wheel dolly & fold up / telescope almost flat
for transport. Keyboard player I know wouldn't part with his!
BillScope
One of the nicest jazz rigs I have heard was a homemade preamp driving
half of a Dynaco Stereo 70 and a single 12" JBL in a cab with a detachable
back baffle.He had it wired so if one half of the ST70 gave problems he
switched over to the other.
This is the only rig I have heard that made a 335 sound
attractive.Usually I think they're turds.
Of course,you could build two preamps and use one of the stereo models(or
a Rick)...
Dean J. Karavite
It may be just me, but I just got rid of a Boogie Mark IV that I used
mainly for jazz tones, and I don't miss it one little bit, especially
considering the weight.
At one time it was the "amp of my dreams," but I think that those
particular Boogies (Mark Series) do a LOT of things in an okay manner. I
could get a lot of nice tones from the boogie, but it takes a lot of
tweaking and it can change drastically the minute you move to a new
room. If you ask me, one shouldn't have to work so hard to get a nice
sound from $1400 amps.
The new Fender reissues have a real nice clean and jazz tone when you
back down on the treble (What! a "Tweed" for jazz!!!). The Blues Deluxe
at around $400 is a great deal (and it is very light), but has no high
gain. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I can't see the sense in lugging
around a Boogie or paying so much for one.
If you want a Fender, Polytone and/or Marshall sound, then just get a
Fender, Polytone and/or a Marshall.
Joe Bac
: At one time it was the "amp of my dreams," but I think that those
: could get a lot of nice tones from the boogie, but it takes a lot of
: tweaking and it can change drastically the minute you move to a new
: room. If you ask me, one shouldn't have to work so hard to get a nice
: sound from $1400 amps.
: The new Fender reissues have a real nice clean and jazz tone when you
: back down on the treble (What! a "Tweed" for jazz!!!). The Blues Deluxe
: at around $400 is a great deal (and it is very light), but has no high
: gain. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I can't see the sense in lugging
: around a Boogie or paying so much for one.
I'm certainly not offended one bit. I agree with the above - I once thought
a boogie was the amp of my dreams too. I had a Mk III and a Mk IV. I got so
sick of tweeking knobs - one day it sounded great, another day not. It
weighs a ton and I hate the buzztone or should I say buzzsaw lead voice.
But the clean channel is a good channel for jazz. I picked up a mkiic+ cheap
and I was curious as to what all the fuss is about. I'm still wondering
why people favor this particular model. The clean is good but the lead
is that typical boogie buzzsaw clinical yuk.
--
|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|
| Joseph G. Bac CSO Americas |
| Systems Engineering Manager Phone: 408 447-7190 |
| Hewlett-Packard Co. Fax: 408 447-5254 |
| 19091 Pruneridge Ave. MS 46LR Email: joe...@cup.hp.com |
| Cupertino, CA 95014 HPDESK: Joe_Bac@HP4700 |
|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|
Giri Iyengar
Hey Perry. I never asked you which speakers you liked for your MAZ. Your
combo has a V30, right? What other speakers have you tried?
..Giri
Frank Carstensen
In article <4sj499$s...@hpax.cup.hp.com>, Joe Bac <joe...@cup.hp.com> wrote:
>
>I'm certainly not offended one bit. I agree with the above - I once thought
>a boogie was the amp of my dreams too. I had a Mk III and a Mk IV. I got so
>sick of tweeking knobs - one day it sounded great, another day not. It
>weighs a ton and I hate the buzztone or should I say buzzsaw lead voice.
>But the clean channel is a good channel for jazz. I picked up a mkiic+ cheap
>and I was curious as to what all the fuss is about. I'm still wondering
>why people favor this particular model. The clean is good but the lead
>is that typical boogie buzzsaw clinical yuk.
>--
>|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|
>| Joseph G. Bac CSO Americas |
>| Systems Engineering Manager Phone: 408 447-7190 |
>| Hewlett-Packard Co. Fax: 408 447-5254 |
>| 19091 Pruneridge Ave. MS 46LR Email: joe...@cup.hp.com |
>| Cupertino, CA 95014 HPDESK: Joe_Bac@HP4700 |
>|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|
Uh oh, it looks like we have the same equipment :*) I also have
a MkII C+ and find the lead channel sound to be useless. Clean
sound is pretty good though, but only after I started using a
Marshall 2x12 cab. I don't know why I put up with that Boogie
EV sound for so long. Actually, as I have said in the past,
I now use a Bassman which sounds much better than the Mk II.
Frank
Kris Hartung
Jeff Makos (j-m...@uchicago.edu) wrote:
: Y'all ought to try the Mesa/Boogie Mark 1 reissue. A great clean tone
: (better than my old MkIIC+) and a useable lead tone (no buzzsaw sound).
I ordered one last month and I will be replacing the EVM speaker with
the higher grade EV-L. It should be here any time. Do you run it
at 100w or 60w? I noticed that it has two inputs that correspond to
two different volume controls. I know this is not a dual channel combo,
BUT it seems that one could use an A/B box or midi patch bay to switch
between the two inputs and volumes. . .correct?
kh
le...@sco.com
I have a Mark 1 reissue.
Volume 2 (the clean channel) is not affected by Vol 1 (lead channel),
however Vol2 output affects the lead channel. Higher volume settings
on Vol2 when plugged into the lead channel increase sustain and
compression.
I have an A/B box but rarely use it. When switching to the lead channel,
I find that the high end is reduced.
-Bill
Lawson G. Stone
Has anyone heard, seen, played, etc. the new Evans 80? I'd love to know
pricing and performance on that one.
--
//////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Lawson G. Stone帰sbury Theological Seminary妓ilmore, KY 40390
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////
If cars had followed the same development path as computers, a
Rolls Royce would cost $1000, get a million miles to the gallon,
and explode once a year, killing everyone inside.
Kris Hartung
Jeff Makos (j-m...@uchicago.edu) wrote:
: In article <4t8cg2$c...@hpbs2500.boi.hp.com>, khar...@boi.hp.com (Kris
: Hartung) wrote:
: > I ordered one last month and I will be replacing the EVM speaker with
: > the higher grade EV-L. It should be here any time. Do you run it
: > at 100w or 60w? I noticed that it has two inputs that correspond to
: > two different volume controls. I know this is not a dual channel combo,
: > BUT it seems that one could use an A/B box or midi patch bay to switch
: > between the two inputs and volumes. . .correct?
: The EV 12-L that comes with the amp is really good (better than Mesa's
: stock Celestion) so check it out befor4 you upgrade.
: I run mine 1t 60w and Mesa suggests that if you do this, you plug into the
: 4ohm jack.
: Mesa sells an a/b box, and suggests short cords for that. Cjheck out the
: owners manual when you get it.
I thought they put EVMs (the speaker made for Boogie by EV) in the units. These
are designed more in line with the EV Force series, not as hefty as the
EV-Ls, which are more than twice the cost of the EVMs and Force series. I
believe the EVM is called the Black Shadow. . ., not sold by EV themselves. . .
kris
Jack A. Zucker
Kris Hartung wrote:
> I thought they put EVMs (the speaker made for Boogie by EV) in the units. These
> are designed more in line with the EV Force series, not as hefty as the
The EVM in the Mesa line is nothing like the Force 12 speaker. It's a completely
different magnet. My guess is that Mesa's speaker is probably a 12L with
little or no changes.