DUMBLE SCHEMATICS
The Fuchs Family
Jim Kroger
<afu...@erols.com> wrote:
> ANYONE GOT ONE?
Just write to Dumble. I'm sure he'll have one right out to you. But it
will be covered with epoxy so you can't read it.
Jim
--
Jim Kroger, Ph.D.
Brain Mapping Divison
Department of Psychology
UCLA, Los Angeles, Ca. 90024
kro...@ucla.edu/310-208-4301
steve...@my-dejanews.com
kro...@ucla.edu (Jim Kroger) wrote:
> In article <35D0C9E2...@erols.com>, The Fuchs Family
> <afu...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> > ANYONE GOT ONE?
>
> Just write to Dumble. I'm sure he'll have one right out to you. But it
> will be covered with epoxy so you can't read it.
>
> Jim
You can get the epoxy off. It's a fairly simple technique involving super-glue
an 800watt or better microwave and a small mammal. I wouldn't use a pet as it
has not been 100% successful during beta tests and the mammal is at some risk.
An ex wife would be a good candidate except for the size issue.
I tried it on my Klon and it worked. I would try it on the Dumble Schematic
first then on the actual amp after you have confidence in the process.
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steve...@my-dejanews.com
kro...@ucla.edu (Jim Kroger) wrote:
> In article <35D0C9E2...@erols.com>, The Fuchs Family
> <afu...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> > ANYONE GOT ONE?
>
> Just write to Dumble. I'm sure he'll have one right out to you. But it
> will be covered with epoxy so you can't read it.
>
> Jim
You can get the epoxy off. It's a fairly simple technique involving super-glue
an 800watt or better microwave and a small mammal. I wouldn't use a pet as it
has not been 100% successful during beta tests and the mammal is at some risk.
An ex wife would be a good candidate except for the size issue.
I tried it on my Klon and it worked. I would try it on the Dumble Schematic
first then on the actual amp after you have confidence in the process.
Steve_2000
Skip May
: ANYONE GOT ONE?
:
Mr Dumble does...
skip
nosp...@juno.com
Ned Carlson
>You can get the epoxy off. It's a fairly simple technique involving super-glue
>an 800watt or better microwave and a small mammal. I wouldn't use a pet as it
>has not been 100% successful during beta tests and the mammal is at some risk.
>An ex wife would be a good candidate except for the size issue.
Just have a small ex-wife and a big-ass commercial Hobart.
I've talked to one fellow who's worked on several Dumbles
(supposedly has a client with like 5 of 'em), he said the
*early* Dumbles *weren't* potted. The basics, or so I was told,
were Fender, but with added tweaks.
Also, the early Dumbles used Altec/Peerless transformers
(How do I know this? My spies are everywhere ;-),
with multiple paralleled secondary windings, apparently
to lower the DCR on the output.
If you've got a fair chunk o' change, it's possible
one could get exact copies made.
Ned Carlson Triode Electronics "where da tubes are!"
2225 W Roscoe Chicago, IL, 60618 USA
ph 773-871-7459 fax 773-871-7938
12:30 to 8 PM CT, (1830-0200 UTC) 12:30-5 Sat, Closed Wed & Sun
http://www.triodeel.com
Your Start Page for Tube and Tube Amp info on the net...
http://www.triodeel.com/tlinks.htm
LarrySB
(How do I know this? My spies are everywhere ;-),
with multiple paralleled secondary windings, apparently
to lower the DCR on the output.
If you've got a fair chunk o' change, it's possible
one could get exact copies made.
>>
I can confirm that - I've only ever seen one, briefly. Didn't get to play it
either. It did have a Peerless transformer in it. (My hifi split personality
spotted it) I don't know the age, model, type. It was in a head cabinet.
--
Dr. Nuketopia
Compiling at this very moment.
Read the Blue Glow in Tubes FAQ at http://www.persci.com/~larrysb
Please note that your email is *not* spam in the subject line.
The Fuchs Family
here...) No,actually,whats frustrating is that I've seen many pictures
posted on various sites,that showed innerds of Dumbles,so it seems there
are some not potted. Yes,it's likely much of it may be Fender
cloned,etc,but there must be more to it than that ! It's obvious there
must be somebody out there who's seen this. I serviced amps in NYC area
for 15 years,and never saw one. Fixed a few Trainwrecks. Fixed a few
DiazWrecks,but never a Dumble. The quest continues.....a
steve...@my-dejanews.com
> here...)
>
amp. It's not much but may help. I spent the 70's in the SF Bay Area. I was a
big fan of Jackson Browne and loved the tone that David Lindley got on his Lap
Steel through a fairly small Fender Amp, I would guess a deluxe or something a
bit bigger. Not a super or a twin.
AS I RECALL, the amp mod guys were just sarting around then. I distinctly
remember an article by Jackson and Lindley in GP where they praised Dumbles
Mods to their Fender amps. Other clients listed as owners of the modded
Fenders were, I believe Bonneie Raitt,Lowell George and maybe an Eagle or 2.
There was either a side bar or a separate story on Dumble (something makes me
think he used to go by the first name of Howard but whatever). I wish I had
that issue but it's probably 20-25 years old-he got into what he was doing to
the Fenders to basically turn every one into a magic touch type amp. He was
based in Santa Cruz near here at the time and it seemed to me that his mods
were expensive for the time, he was opinionated and there was a waiting list.
So I never made the 20 mile trek over the hill to see what he could do for me.
Although much of this is recollection, I feel it fairly accurate. Jackson
Browne is a vintage fender and vox connoseuir and I've seen him play through
Dumbles before. He lent SR Vaughn the Overdrive Special he used on the entire
Texas Flood lp. Some of the most magical tone moments in my life have been at
live shows with David Lindley making his modded Fender sing, Robben Ford,
Larry Carlton and last year slide ace Sonny Landreth doing the same with
overdrive specials.
I think the reason you got wise crack remarks from a few of us is that, Dumble
is very secretive about his design, makes very few amps. You probably have to
know someone who knows someone just to get through to him to order info. There
is a long waiting list and very few of us have ever been in a position to play
through one. There just aren't any around and most of his performing clients
have a backup and probably send them to him for service.
Also, he does put a glob of something in his circuitry to hide his secrets.
And his amps have traditionally been the most expensive in the business-in
the $5000 range for many years. Long before any regular guitar player would
consider paying that kind of money for a piece of musical gear. Now with
$3500 amps from others and $4500 guitars it's not so much of a shock. Course
I don't know his current price list.
He was along with maybe Randy Smith the first of the boutique makers. But at
least you could get a Boogie, high price and a bit of a wait, but he grew his
business normally and they now provide a decent product at a relatively
reasonable price.
I guess what stirred up the NG and all the comical responses is that Dumble is
like the Howard Hughes of amps. There is no info readily available to the
public.
For my comments on Robben Ford's refusal to take Dumbles to Europe or Japan
due to risk, see my fairly recent post on The Twin. You can find it by
searching my author profile. Robben Can Get a very Dumble like sound form
these late 70's early 80's amps. Good luck Steve_2000 (sslaghtaca @aol.com)
Jim Kroger
Santa Monica, GREAT place) that had pictures of "important" people in
rock equipment history, don't remember if it was just amp or amps and
guitars, but anyway...
They had one page on Dumble, with a big picture. He looks like a well-fed
friar monk, and has his shop in part of a cathedral. Apparently he likes
to play the big pipe organ they have. Can't remember the
rest but it was truly fascinating. He sounds like just the kind of guy
who would be hanging out here, but perhaps he's too reculsive. This is
definately a cool book and I'll try to remember to get more info next
time I go in to buy reeds....yeah, right.
Jim
steve...@my-dejanews.com
kro...@ucla.edu (Jim Kroger) wrote:
> Saw a book in my local music book store (Musician's Supply, Pico Blvd.,
> Santa Monica, GREAT place) that had pictures of "important" people in
> rock equipment history, don't remember if it was just amp or amps and
> guitars, but anyway...
>
> They had one page on Dumble, with a big picture. He looks like a well-fed
> friar monk, and has his shop in part of a cathedral. Apparently he likes
> to play the big pipe organ they have. Can't remember the
> rest but it was truly fascinating. He sounds like just the kind of guy
> who would be hanging out here, but perhaps he's too reculsive.
Hi Jim,
Any info on the man would be appreciated. I'm a bit more interested in how to
get a spot on Dumble sound without mortgaging the house I forgot to buy. A
couple of responses to the initial question mentioned some fender modding and
one of the regular NG contributors is a tech/builder who works in Illinois. He
alluded to being amenable to trying to create an exact copy for " a chunk of
change." I'd be willing to try:
1. If I had a chunk of change to invest in an experimental amp (I've done it
before-don't have the "change" right now).
2. The gentleman was local, because post construction tweaking would be a
strong possibility.
FYI-the Line 6 AX2 modeling amp has a Dumble model on the new EPROM-hey, I'm
open minded on modeling -epecially if someone thinks they can emulate a
Dumble. I tried out the patch in a music store and it didn't do a lot for me.
If you are into modeling at all, you've probably read that you frequently
can't get the advertised sound in a music store demo. At home editing is
required. Whatever. Some of the other presets were, like they say, 95% or so
of the intended model without any editing. The Dumble wasn't. In fairness,
I've played through many of the original amps they are modeling and know what
I expect to hear. I've never played through a Dumble. I did my auditioning by
listening to just the factory presets with no fx so I could really hear the
model. IMOHO- they Are getting closer with many of the models, and for what
it is, the AX2 is a pretty good product of that genre.
steve...@my-dejanews.com
steve...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <35D4D69E...@erols.com>,
> The Fuchs Family <afu...@erols.com> wrote:
> > Thanks for all the hyterical (sarcastic,smart-ass,insert adjective
> > here...)
RE:This is in addition to the attempted "make good" posting I recently
submitted for the benefit of the original authors of the Dumble Schematic
question. They got a bit beat up by some of our responses. About 90% sarcasm
(some of it true) 10% info. FYI and IMO- this NG contains some very talented
techs and players as well as beginners. I see a lot of useful info coming
down through the process. Wish I would have had reasearch tool like this
when I was first learning. I learn new stuff here all the time. Fair Warning
and IMO: some of the contributors can be a little edgy and definitely will
call a spade a spade if that is their opinon or they have contradicting tech
info. Some of these same folks and others also like to have fun here. It's
worth the ride, but you need to develop a bit of thick skin at times...Heres
my latest 'contribution' to this thread-I may have only a 50/50 chance of
changing a tube correctly on the first try, but I can do non-tech research,
for what it's worth.
_____________________________________________________________________________
___ I searched my biological hard drive (partially fragmented-no fix
possible) to come up with the well intentioned attempt to provide a little
info on Mr. Dumble,posted recently. Since then, I've been to the GP website
and ran through their 30 year index. In Sept 85 they ran a feature on "Howard
Dumble." I've saved most of the issues since the mid 70's. I have or had that
issue. Much of my earlier GP stuff went into storage (pre 88 for some
reason-guess it seemed like a good year to draw the line-oh yeah, it was the
year Joe Satriani started getting press as did Robben Ford who had reemerged
with his back to the blues "Talk to Your Daughter" CD.)
I will have a quick look in my onsite storage archive (the shed in back). If
it is in my actual offsite storage area it may take a while (quite a while)
to retrieve. I am not sure this is the article tied directly to the Jackson
Browne/David Lindley Dumble-Fender mods story that was in GP. That may have
been a sidebar or part of the Browne article. This issue lists John
McLaughlin as a article topic and he was most likely on the cover of that
issue. The article on Dumble may have been due to the fact that he was
producing his own amps. This is,again, just (somewhat informed, hopefully)
speculation.
JK posted an article yesterday about running across a brief article on the
man in his local bookstore. Just for grins, does anyone know how to get a
hold of Dumble's company directly/what the exact city or exact address is, or
what it is called? (I tried some searches in the Santa Barbara area and came
up with nil) Barring that, does anyone know of a dealer that sells the
product or knows about ordering them? I think Real Guitars/Gary Brawer(sp)
may know-he's one of 'the guys' in the bay area that's accessable and won't
bite your head off on the phone. Course he doesn't do amp work to my
knowledge, just great guitar stuff. FYI-his shop isn't Real Guitars but is in
back of it. The gentleman who owns Real Guitars has a lot of great vintage
gear including amps and is helpful, also plays some very good blues as I
recall.
Pls post any info on contacting Dumble if it's possible to even do so
directly.Or any info for that matter.
Maybe he just calls a courier when one of his 5 to 10 amps per year is done
and the courier comes up to the mountaintop to pick up the prized piece for
delivery to the customer or dealer(who has presold it) and has been
waiting...
I admit that the whole thing is ridiculous, that there are many fine builders
and techs who operate in Our World, but now I'm Curious....Steve 2000
Jim Kroger
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Any info on the man would be appreciated. I'm a bit more interested in how to
> get a spot on Dumble sound without mortgaging the house I forgot to buy. A
> couple of responses to the initial question mentioned some fender modding and
> one of the regular NG contributors is a tech/builder who works in Illinois. He
> alluded to being amenable to trying to create an exact copy for " a chunk of
> change." I'd be willing to try:
> 1. If I had a chunk of change to invest in an experimental amp (I've done it
> before-don't have the "change" right now).
> 2. The gentleman was local, because post construction tweaking would be a
> strong possibility.
>
> FYI-the Line 6 AX2 modeling amp has a Dumble model on the new EPROM-hey, I'm
> open minded on modeling -epecially if someone thinks they can emulate a
> Dumble. I tried out the patch in a music store and it didn't do a lot for me.
> If you are into modeling at all, you've probably read that you frequently
> can't get the advertised sound in a music store demo. At home editing is
> required. Whatever. Some of the other presets were, like they say, 95% or so
> of the intended model without any editing. The Dumble wasn't. In fairness,
> I've played through many of the original amps they are modeling and know what
> I expect to hear. I've never played through a Dumble. I did my auditioning by
> listening to just the factory presets with no fx so I could really hear the
> model. IMOHO- they Are getting closer with many of the models, and for what
> it is, the AX2 is a pretty good product of that genre.
>
> >
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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Well, there was a Dumble for sale at the Amp Shop last time I went there,
now on Ventura Blvd. in Sherman Oaks, area code 818. I think he said he
was going to wait until somebody offered him a 427 Stingray for it. Other
than that, I'm not a good source for any info on the Dumbles, just
pointing out about that book.
I don't know much about that modeling stuff, I'm scared of it. Give me
tubes.
Jim
Marc Ferguson
Obviously Nate Kramer can talk to him. Dumble writes for his sales flyer.
Sooner or later someone will *release* the precious
info, and the beans and gas will fly. I think we'll all get a chuckle when we
find out it's just a simple change and tweak that makes
the *magic*. If Nate had the schemo, I'm sure he'd be capitalizing
on it. Much like his books of Fender schems (which are excellent).
http://nashville.citysearch.com/E/V/NASTN/0003/65/63/1.html
steve...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
Bobby Owsinski
> Pls post any info on contacting Dumble if it's possible to even do so
> directly.Or any info for that matter.
>
> Maybe he just calls a courier when one of his 5 to 10 amps per year is done
> and the courier comes up to the mountaintop to pick up the prized piece for
> delivery to the customer or dealer(who has presold it) and has been
> waiting...
>
> I admit that the whole thing is ridiculous, that there are many fine builders
> and techs who operate in Our World, but now I'm Curious....Steve 2000
Alexander (formerly Howard) Dumble resides in Glendale, CA. I have a
friend who is in constant touch with him and who owns a few of his amps
(one of which is for sale), who could put you in touch if you'd like.
--
Bobby Owsinski
EuroJam International Sound and Picture
Remove the ?? before the address to reply.
Jim Kroger
<??polymedia-160...@pool033-max14.mpop2-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net>,
??poly...@earthlink.net (Bobby Owsinski) wrote:
>
> Alexander (formerly Howard) Dumble resides in Glendale, CA. I have a
> friend who is in constant touch with him and who owns a few of his amps
> (one of which is for sale), who could put you in touch if you'd like.
Well, I bet a few people would be interested in how much he wants for
that Dumble, including me.
Jim
Bobby Owsinski
steve...@my-dejanews.com
but will try to send a brief post later. Apparently, Dumble can be reached,
there is an amp or 2 for sale. I'll let you know what happens from here. I'm
not buying one-just curious.
Jim, Gimme tubes too. I just mentioned that that Line 6 attempted a Dumble
model FYI. I'm looking into modeling so I don't have to take my blue Marshall
30th anniversary and a bunch of pedals all over the Bay Area (including
outside gigs with dirt)for what amounts to minimum wage after commute,
performance and breakdown time. I do it just so I can gig live.
A decent modeler with built in effects will (IMHO) do the job with minimum
hassle. I have some other tube amps that I sometime use, but going that route
correctly with the amount of processing I need for this cover band really
requires a midimultieffector w/ foot control or ideally a footswitching
system ala bradshaw or GCX Ground Control. You can buy a used Line 6 for what
this stuff costs. Unfortunately, I've used all my good gear with the band and
have set a standard. I'm expected to come up with good basic tone (thus the
Marshall, usually) and also be able to come up with effected sounds to fill
out certain songs due to no keyboards. And do this without a zillion pedals
in a rats nest in front of me. I've shown them pictures of Eric Johnson's
pedalboard- the one surrounded by at least 6" high barriers and is about 6
feet long-and they freak. It's kinda funny. Steve 2000
In article <kroger-1608...@128.97.50.110>,
kro...@ucla.edu (Jim Kroger) wrote:
> > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> > http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
>
> Well, there was a Dumble for sale at the Amp Shop last time I went there,
> now on Ventura Blvd. in Sherman Oaks, area code 818. I think he said he
> was going to wait until somebody offered him a 427 Stingray for it. Other
> than that, I'm not a good source for any info on the Dumbles, just
> pointing out about that book.
>
> I don't know much about that modeling stuff, I'm scared of it. Give me
> tubes.
>
> Jim
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Gil Ayan
??poly...@earthlink.net Bobby Owsinski says:
>> > Alexander (formerly Howard) Dumble resides in Glendale, CA. I have a
>> > friend who is in constant touch with him and who owns a few of his amps
>> > (one of which is for sale), who could put you in touch if you'd like.
>>
>> Well, I bet a few people would be interested in how much he wants for
>> that Dumble, including me.
>$12K, I think.
>Bobby Owsinski
Almost, Bobby. You're talking about Dave, right? :) Last I heard from him, after he went to a
Texas guitar show and sold a Dumble too easily, the price went up to 14K for the one he's got
left...
Yes, Dumble lives in Los Angeles. He is not building amps for the general
public at this time, and I have heard in addition to supporting his customers,
he's currently working on some "new products." If you call him now, rather
than saying "Thanks for calling Dumble amplification," the message will say
"Hi, this is Alexander." There are some rumours that he will be mass-producing
some stuff, so that could be what that "new products stuff" is... If you get
him to build you an amp, because he knows a friend of yours or so, the price
will be about twice as much as it was (for a 60-day delivery) a few years ago,
nearing $10K (still, better than getting a used one). However, that will not
include the voicing of the amp, which is probably a must with a Dumble.
Gil
Jim Kroger
>
> Yes, Dumble lives in Los Angeles. He is not building amps for the general
> public at this time, and I have heard in addition to supporting his customers,
> he's currently working on some "new products." If you call him now, rather
> than saying "Thanks for calling Dumble amplification," the message will say
> "Hi, this is Alexander." There are some rumours that he will be mass-producing
> some stuff, so that could be what that "new products stuff" is... If you get
> him to build you an amp, because he knows a friend of yours or so, the price
> will be about twice as much as it was (for a 60-day delivery) a few years ago,
> nearing $10K (still, better than getting a used one). However, that will not
> include the voicing of the amp, which is probably a must with a Dumble.
>
> Gil
So would voicing it be like when you buy a suite, you have to let them
take some measurements then you come back later and it fits? Is it
a process of going back again and again and asking him to make some change?
How many visists to you get? Or do you just pay until your happy?
Why doesn't he just voice them like a Dumble?
Jim
Gil Ayan
>So would voicing it be like when you buy a suite, you have to let them
>take some measurements then you come back later and it fits? Is it
>a process of going back again and again and asking him to make some change?
>How many visists to you get? Or do you just pay until your happy?
>Why doesn't he just voice them like a Dumble?
Jim, I never bought an amp from Dumble myself, so I can't say how
many iterations he was willing to go through. However, I know some
facts: there are some trimpots inside the amp, which BTW are shown
on Doyle's "The Art of Amplification" book, and they can be used to
alter the sound of the amp. "Voicing it like a Dumble" may not be
so trivial, in that individual customers probably ask for different
"flavors of Dumble." I know for a fact that both Larry Carlton and
Robben Ford did have his Dumbles modified. Robben mentioned that
in person once, during a clininc, and also in a Guitar Player magazine,
I believe the article was called "Talkinig Blue Tone" or somethings
along those lines. I heard Larry mention that his amp was modified
for a deeper sound, but I could be slightly off on this though.
Also, not all customers were treated equally. Some never had a
problem getting good support, while others had to wait a long
time, only to get another bad sounding Dumble. [Self-admitedly,
Alexander Dumble is a huge fan of both Robben's and Larry's, I
have heard him say so and suggest they did a record together, so
it is not surprising they probably both get excellent service.]
Speculation was, these unfortunates would get an amp they didn't
like and return it; Dumble would then dump that amp on the next
cat on the waiting list, and place the original nagging dude at
the bottom of the list. After a while, the original customer
would then get another Dumble with "generic voicing," and it was
a vicious circle. This story I know first hand from some people
who bought amps in the early 80s. But... to give Dumble the
benfit of the doubt, it could be like the "never yell to a waiter
unless you like the taste of urine in your meal."
After that, I believe Dumble was served subpoenas because of some
unhappy buyers who would wait years ane not get the right amp, and
I don't know the resolution of that incident. The end result was
Dumble dropping his first name and using his middle one instead,
thus becoming "H. Alexander." IMHO, his amps are great sounding
and it seems as though the 80s/90s models sound even better than
the "Santa Cruz" amps from the 70s, although these were already
way ahead of their time.
Last bit of information I read about the Dumbles was that the
tone stack was further modified and the middle control is placed
before the overdrive and the treble and bass after the OD -- to
read more about this, check:
http://www.bananas.com/news_dir/guitars/guitamps2.html
and search for the word Dumble. By the way, the above page is a
plug for the Flextone amps; of course, I was curious enough to
try one out just to see if it resembled the Dumble. I thought
their "Felxtone Crunch" mode indeed captured the essence of the
Dumble tone, at least al lower volumes. With those findings, I
mentioned the Flextone to a Dumble-owner friend: he also agreed
that there was some Dumble-esqueness in there. If you try this
amp, be sure to keep the treble control low on that patch; as in
the real Dumble amp, lower treble settings result in better tone
in just about everyone's opinion.
Laslty, long-time Dumble buddy and great guitarist Joey Brassler
-- owner of the Dumble that was reivewed at Guitar Player, with
rather unfavorable results, I might add -- is working with the
Flextone folks doing some clinincs. I would not be surprised,
in the least, if Line 6 used Joey's Dumble to peek inside and
base their modelling on.
Gil
James Doherty
Gil Ayan wrote:
> I"Talkinig Blue Tone"
Dumble used to name his tone circuits IIRC. The legendary one is the "Blue Sky Circuit"
again IIRC. Is this what you are refering to?
As far as voicing an amp (Jims question). I can't speak for Dumble but Ken Fischer would
spend a week or 2 with eack amp swapping our different caps, resistors, tubes, whatever
until the amp sounded the way he thought it should. When you start to add up the huge
tolerances of Transformers, tubes, caps ect. there must end up being a pretty wide range
of sonic output. My guess Dumble "voicing" the amp would entail quite a bit of time and
patience swapping out differnt parts until it sounded right and this seperated a good
amp from a great one. Just pure speculation on my part based on my experience in
dealing with Ken Fischer.
JD
George Van Wagner
>
some text removed
>
> Last bit of information I read about the Dumbles was that the
> tone stack was further modified and the middle control is placed
> before the overdrive and the treble and bass after the OD -- to
> read more about this, check:
>
> http://www.bananas.com/news_dir/guitars/guitamps2.html
>
> and search for the word Dumble. By the way, the above page is a
> plug for the Flextone amps; of course, I was curious enough to
> try one out just to see if it resembled the Dumble. I thought
> their "Felxtone Crunch" mode indeed captured the essence of the
> Dumble tone, at least al lower volumes. With those findings, I
> mentioned the Flextone to a Dumble-owner friend: he also agreed
> that there was some Dumble-esqueness in there. If you try this
> amp, be sure to keep the treble control low on that patch; as in
> the real Dumble amp, lower treble settings result in better tone
> in just about everyone's opinion.
>
> Laslty, long-time Dumble buddy and great guitarist Joey Brassler
> -- owner of the Dumble that was reivewed at Guitar Player, with
> rather unfavorable results, I might add -- is working with the
> Flextone folks doing some clinincs. I would not be surprised,
> in the least, if Line 6 used Joey's Dumble to peek inside and
> base their modelling on.
>
> Gil
Gil,
Actually, it wasn't Joey's amp that was modeled. We had one of the early
1x12 combos and a head that we were able to work with (still would love
to get our hands on a Steel String Singer). While the Flextone Crunch is
kind of a Dumble 'fantasy' amp (not enough room in the Flextone to model
both channels, so we sorta combined the stronger points of both into a
single model), the AX2 Dumble model is more accurate (at least it has
Joey's stamp of approval).
George Van Wagner
Gil Ayan
>Actually, it wasn't Joey's amp that was modeled. We had one of the early
>1x12 combos and a head that we were able to work with (still would love
>to get our hands on a Steel String Singer).
I have tried a couple of "early" Dumbles by now, and they have been excellent
sounding amps as well, the only drawback being that they are capable of sounding
farty with excessive bass settings. As I understand it, and I have never had a
chance to verify, the later Dumbles had a different tone stack that resulted in
a much tighter bottom when the bass setting was increased.
>While the Flextone Crunch is kind of a Dumble 'fantasy' amp (not enough room in
>the Flextone to model both channels, so we sorta combined the stronger points of
>both into a single model)
The "Flextone Crunch" is a very good sound. I haven't played that amp loud enough
to hear what it would sound like on a gig, but if it keeps the characteristics of
the sound at lower SPLs, then is is a great patch.
>the AX2 Dumble model is more accurate (at least it has
>Joey's stamp of approval).
I think Joey has his concept of tone very together, I'd be ineteresting to hear
the AX2 Dumble patch.
Gil
George Van Wagner
>
> I have tried a couple of "early" Dumbles by now, and they have been excellent
> sounding amps as well, the only drawback being that they are capable of sounding
> farty with excessive bass settings. As I understand it, and I have never had a
> chance to verify, the later Dumbles had a different tone stack that resulted in
> a much tighter bottom when the bass setting was increased.
>
What we discovered is that the early OD Special had the mids pre and the
bass and treble post, whereas the recent head had all of the tone stack
post. There also was not a great deal of range in the controls. I
suspect that this might vary from amp to amp, as part of the voicing
process.
George
profrets
I had the opportunity to talk to Alexander Dumble in the Mojo booth at
January NAMM. He had built a tweed Twin out of parts available from Mojo.
Another tech and I took the back off to see what we could learn, little did
we know, AD himself was standing there watching us. It had a homemade
circuit board, 6L6WGB's biased at 51 ma (measured on the spot with a Bias
King), Sovtek 12AX7WB's, Illinois caps, and metal film resistors. I asked
him about the pre's, he said (paraphrasing) you can find good sounding
Sovtek 12AX7's if you go through enough of them. He said Red Rhodes had
turned him on to the Illinois caps, he liked them. Some "famous" studio guy
came in the booth while we were there who seemed to know AD and assessed the
sonics, he decided it was "spanky" and seemed to like it. The cathedral part
mentioned in an earlier post is in his house, he makes his own pistols and
rifles, his current hobby is gold mining, and he is not currently in amp
production. He is a maybe 5' 9", probably 325 lbs.. When he would talk about
circuits, his voice would get quiet. He was a lot of fun, of course we were
all walking on eggshells. At first he did not seem interested in answering
any questions, but after he talked to Paul Patronete at GT and was told I
was OK, the door opened. I felt very fortunate to have been there talking to
the MAN.
r...@profrets.com
ark
(snip)
>Also, not all customers were treated equally. Some never had a
>problem getting good support, while others had to wait a long
>time, only to get another bad sounding Dumble.
I can vouch for this, a guy I knew in LA waited forever to get his,
and was always getting the run-around whenever he inquired (this was
after basically paying full price up front). He more of a rich kid
than a guitar player, but that still doesn't excuse Dumble's behavior
in my book. If you weren't a well-known or famous player he wouldn't
deal with you at all was my impression.
>But... to give Dumble the
>benfit of the doubt, it could be like the "never yell to a waiter
>unless you like the taste of urine in your meal."
You don't give waiters $5000 before you eat dinner though.
>After that, I believe Dumble was served subpoenas because of some
>unhappy buyers who would wait years ane not get the right amp, and
>I don't know the resolution of that incident. The end result was
>Dumble dropping his first name and using his middle one instead,
>thus becoming "H. Alexander." IMHO, his amps are great sounding
>and it seems as though the 80s/90s models sound even better than
>the "Santa Cruz" amps from the 70s, although these were already
>way ahead of their time.
I was in a jam session with a guy about 5 years ago (I forget his
name, he plays with the band "Zero" and now with Bob Weir's new band)
who used one with a strat, and it did indeed sound fantastic, a huge
clean sound that was smooth with some sustain & no harshness. In
contrast the Super Overdrive my friend in LA ended up with sounded
real average to me, especially the overdrive part which sounded pretty
thin.
Al
SEFSTRAT
Marshall, usually) and also be able to come up with effected sounds to fill
out certain songs due to no keyboards.>>
That's IT. A good basic tone has to be there first....effects don't make up
for it, for sure.
I haven't heard the modeling amp that makes me happy yet. But I wish they'd do
one that I like....I'd give up tubes in a minute if I liked the feel and tone
of solid state power sections.
They're getting better. But they have a ways to go. The Matchless modeling,
for instance, sounds nothing like my Matchless, IMHO.
Steve
SEFSTRAT
SEFSTRAT
problem getting good support, while others had to wait a long
time, only to get another bad sounding Dumble. >>
Given the reports of the man's rudeness and eccentricity, you couldn't pay most
people enough to bother to deal with him, especially at those prices.
I played a Dumble once, about 5 years ago. I was completely unimpressed; I
laughed and said "this is IT"?! I couldn't believe it. It sounded good, but I
expected the Chimes of God. I believe it was called a 'super overdrive', BTW.
Frankly, I think that many other boutique amps on the market sound considerably
better than the Dumble I played. And they cost a fraction of the price.
Now, maybe I tried a bad one; I guess it's possible. But IMHO, at those
prices, there ought to be no such thing as a bad one.
Steve
SEFSTRAT
Ned Carlson
wrote:
>
>I had the opportunity to talk to Alexander Dumble in the Mojo booth at
>January NAMM.
Cool story. Was the Mill Hill guy there?
Marc Ferguson
Ned Carlson wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 23:34:44 -0400, "profrets" <mi...@profrets.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >I had the opportunity to talk to Alexander Dumble in the Mojo booth at
> >January NAMM.
>
> Cool story. Was the Mill Hill guy there?
>
Nah, he was busy out back wid de hemp cloth.
ark
wrote:
(snip)
> he makes his own pistols and rifles,
So this is not a good time to looking for that amp he never delivered
I guess... assuming that the firearms are built as good as his amps
were.
Al
steve...@my-dejanews.com
took a while to figure basic navigation (I didn't want to ask a Salesperson).
Once I got to the basic tones I listened to them completely dry, no whirlygig
pinkfloyd echos etc. The only thing I did was boost drive or gain to see what
the distorted sound would be or the raise or lower the gain if the basic tone
was already overdriven. No messin with eq's etc. I wanted to see what Line 6
thought was a good jumping off place for the model. These guys (IMHO) are
doing their homework. The new EPROM is much better. I will sneak back in
(Sundays about 4 Pm seem to be good if you wanna be left alone)to checkout
some of the sound shaping and effects controls next.
I've read everything from ravingly good to bad/mediocre reviews on the new
sounds and spoken to a few people trying to sell the original Axsys. My first
audition of the AX2 showed IMOHO that many of the tones are good unaltered and
that with proper editing, you can probably come up with some very good sounds.
The guys who complain sometimes give themselves away by
concluding with, I've only been playing for 6 months or It's too hard to
operate. These amps are not for everyone. Just as multieffectors are not for
everyone. But it ain't brain surgery either and you have to have an idea
either of what good guitar tone is or what you want to sound like.
Steve_2000
In article <199808180346...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
steve...@my-dejanews.com
Gene Miller
and you'll really hear the difference. Just be sure the VG-8 is plugged
into a keyboard amp NOT a guitar amp and set for flat response.
Gene M.
Ned Carlson
>Hi Jim,
>
>Any info on the man would be appreciated. I'm a bit more interested in how to
>get a spot on Dumble sound without mortgaging the house I forgot to buy. A
>couple of responses to the initial question mentioned some fender modding and
>one of the regular NG contributors is a tech/builder who works in Illinois. He
>alluded to being amenable to trying to create an exact copy for " a chunk of
>change." I'd be willing to try:
Well, I can get you a copy of the original Dumble output xfmr for
$299. The copy of the original power xfmr would be $125, tho I think
a generic Fender replacement would do fine, too.
Getting someone let one sketch (which is what I'd have to do)
the diagram from an unpotted chassis might cost a few bucks,
I suppose if I had a $12,000 Dumble, I might need a few bucks
to let someone do something that might reduce the value of
amp, myself.
Bear in mind that at least the older ones were supposedly
hand tweaked for the individual players who bought them,
so whatever is being copied, may not be an "average"
Dumble, nor likely the "base" circuit that Dumble
started from.
Simply using Mojo parts with the Dumble-copy xfmrs,
then installing hotrod/mod circuits published elsewhere,
might get one 90% of the way there, I doubt if HAD
was doing anything someone else hasn't tried at
one time or another, there's really not *that* much new
under the sun in tube amps..
steve...@my-dejanews.com
many of the cosm models used in VG-8. When the original Line 6 came out I
compared the 2 and found the Roland to be better. It was also more expensive
at the time and you only got a preamp (very very versatile though with 2
stereo effects loops etc.)
I wound up using the Roland mainly at home as I ran across a steal on an an
original first run edition of the Marshall 30th Ann combo and used the $$ I
was going to spend on a power amp and speakers to buy it. I did use the GP100
on several gigs running into the effects return of 2 combos. But lost
interest when I got the Marshall. The band has evolved to where I'm using
quite a few stomp boxes to filler sounds and the kick ass Marshall tone is
not being used a whole bunch. Plus we are playing a lot more now which means
the Marshall (with the brass collectors plate inside) is getting a lot more
road work, where it used to sit in the rehearsal studio. I tried an AX2 and
was much more impressed than the Axsys. Plus at the price range your getting
a lot. The VG-8 is much cooler than my GP100 but costs a bunch more and I'm
back to building a preamp/speaker setup. Bang for Buck the AX2 (IMO) is a
good deal. And I won't die if it gets abused on the road or in a bar. Again
to my ears, the basic sounds are much improved. Pls reply as I'm very
interested to find out which generation your Line 6 is. thanks Steve_2000
In article <35DB62...@ccm.co.intel.com>,
Gil Ayan
says:
>might get one 90% of the way there, I doubt if HAD
>was doing anything someone else hasn't tried at
>one time or another, there's really not *that* much new
>under the sun in tube amps..
Agreed, Ned. But the flip side of the coin is, some amps sound really good,
however simple (Blackface Fender, for example), while some sound pretty
pathetic. What I believe Dumble achieved was, above all, a simple looking
amp, with one single tone stack, that achieved a great clean AND overdrive
sounds. In my opinion, that trait alone makes it a one of a kind... and
EVERYBODY has tried to come up with amps like that: Fender, Marshall, Boogie,
etc. IMHO, there have always been severe compromises.
Cheers,
Gil
Gene Miller
tweaking just nails it. Go to deja view and look at the long running
thread on DSP's I was involved in as to how I set up my VG-8. I also
play slide and the string remapping on the VG-8 is perfect for it.
Gene M.
steve...@my-dejanews.com
gene_m_miller@.co.intel.com wrote:
> It is the latest AX2. I agree it is much improved but the Roland after
> tweaking just nails it. Go to deja view and look at the long running
> thread on DSP's I was involved in as to how I set up my VG-8. I also
> play slide and the string remapping on the VG-8 is perfect for it.
>
> Gene M.
>
Thanx for the reply. I'll check out the DSP thread.I still won't be getting a
V- G-8 because of the $$. It's unfortunate because of the auto-retune for
slide and the 12 string sounds and synth sounds. It also appears to be the
only modeling product (other than the sound cards for the digital HD
recorders) that Roland has done any upgrades on. I'm sure the DSP thread will
give me some info helpful with my GP100. BTW, what is your application for
your VG-8: live gigs, recording, both? Also, what do you use for the
amplification? You had mentioned a flat sounding keyboard amp (maybe this
info is in the DSP site). There is a GP100 users site that is not really that
hot anymore, but in the archives they were talking about using a Roland Jazz
Chorus as it is stereo and fairly flat sounding. I know nothing about the
J.C. as far as individual amp feeds or it being flat sounding. Can't recall
seeing too many keyboard players use one, but it coulda been coz I was always
looking at the guitir players rig.
Thanx for the info. I may have hidden treasure in my stack of infrequently
used gear.
Steve_2000
Gene Miller
I use my VG-8 for both along with a Roland GR-1 and US-20 switch. When I
use amps with it I plug into a pair of Roland KC-500 keyboard amps in
the master/slave stereo mode. Thats 300 watts of undistorted flat power!
The rest of my rig from the guitar outs of the synth's is this;
VG-8 guitar out.
Y adapter to Marshall JTM 310 dual channel amp
lead two to a Zoom 1010 to a ART personal reverb to a Vox AC30TBC with
blue dogs. All 3 channels cascaded for maximum tone variation.
GR-1 guitar out.
Signal is Y'ed to two paths. Effects and straight. Split to two Vox
Super Beatles. One is an original v1141 and the second is a v1143 with
FET transistors. signal is Y'ed into the normal and brilliant channels
on both. Effects chain is Marshall shredmaster to Fuzz Face to Boss
Chorus to Ibanez echo to stereo Boss echo. Effects path feeds in the Vox
1141. Straight path feeds into the 1143. These babies are super clean
amps.
Just think of the tone variations with this setup. Guitar is a 40th
Anniversary Les Paul Black Beauty. Yes, the GK-2A IS screwed to the top!
I don't have any tracking problems this way.
Gene M.
Ned Carlson
<j-gk...@carib-link.net> wrote:
>
>Whoopsey forgot the URL http://www.ma.umist.ac.uk/rl/dumble.html
Well, now I know that you can make at least on kind of Dumble
clone with Bassman xfmrs.
Thanks, Jon!
steve...@my-dejanews.com
gene_m_miller@.co.intel.com
> >
> > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> > http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
>
> I use my VG-8 for both along with a Roland GR-1 and US-20 switch. When I
> use amps with it I plug into a pair of Roland KC-500 keyboard amps in
> the master/slave stereo mode. Thats 300 watts of undistorted flat power!
> The rest of my rig from the guitar outs of the synth's is this;
>
> VG-8 guitar out.
> Y adapter to Marshall JTM 310 dual channel amp
> lead two to a Zoom 1010 to a ART personal reverb to a Vox AC30TBC with
> blue dogs. All 3 channels cascaded for maximum tone variation.
>
> GR-1 guitar out.
>
> Signal is Y'ed to two paths. Effects and straight. Split to two Vox
> Super Beatles. One is an original v1141 and the second is a v1143 with
> FET transistors. signal is Y'ed into the normal and brilliant channels
> on both. Effects chain is Marshall shredmaster to Fuzz Face to Boss
> Chorus to Ibanez echo to stereo Boss echo. Effects path feeds in the Vox
> 1141. Straight path feeds into the 1143. These babies are super clean
> amps.
>
> Just think of the tone variations with this setup. Guitar is a 40th
> Anniversary Les Paul Black Beauty. Yes, the GK-2A IS screwed to the top!
> I don't have any tracking problems this way.
>
> Gene M.
Hi Gene...
Wow!!!! What a Killer set up!!I was unaware of the GR-1 being in the picture.
Sounds like you can do pretty much anything. And the "straight guitar" hook
ups looks like you have some outstanding 'regular' sounds at your finger tips
as well.
FYI-I currently go into a Moreley Bad Horsey wah (it's 'ok-but I'm looking..)
then into a recently added older Ibanez para EQ ($25 at a used equip sale).
If I engage it, it boosts about 4-5db between 800 and about 1k depending on
the guitar, for a more howling lead tone. From there I have 2 set ups
depending on the main amp: With my Marshall 30th ann, I have an original
Chandler Tube Driver in line to have some fun. I took out the Ax7 and put in
a much sweeter Au7 (old GE). If I'm using a practice amp as the main amp I
insert a Jerry Donohue Preamp before the Chandler as both my Practice amps
have shared tone controls. This gives me a some low distorted "Stonesy" dirt
and also a fake 3 channel approach. Next I go into a DanEcho for short delays
into DejaVibe then into a Korg G4 Rotary Speaker sim; this last unit (and the
JD and Moreley) all have line driver type circuits for buffering/and
decreasing load resistance. I find the JD is not necessary in the Marshall
hook up (as it has 3 true channels, the middle of which can be set for 800 or
900 series sounds. I tend to go with the 800 for crunch and use channel 3 for
lead. Put the Chandler in there and you have quite a few tonal options for
basic guitar.) The Korg definitely adds brightness, even when off, which I
deal with as necessary eq wise. Sometimes I like it. Out of the master amp I
take a preamp out or fx send and loop through an Ibanez DDL for long delays
and finally a chorus (I'm currently back with my trusty Boss Ch-2 although,
I've got a few others including cool cat. This delay loop then goes to a
slave amp, usually an Ampeg 50 watt Triax with a Celestion 70 watt speaker. I
use the power amp in and put it in triode mode. The main practice amps are
either a 1980 Fender Super 60, which has a Rivera designed OD or a Peavey
Classic 30 (it keeps sneaking back into the rig-I swear I unplug it and put
the Fender in there and next time I'm at the practice area, yup, the Peavey
has drug itself across the floor and patched itself in. Sounds like an X File
to me.
I have considered using the GP100 as a multi effector only and getting rid of
some of the boxes. The Korg stays. It has one of the best Leslie sims out
there and could be patched into a stereo loop on the GP100. Right now it
should be in the FX loop And the main loop to take advange of the stereo
spread but, I haven't nailed a fool proof way of patching this with the
different amps-I caused a severe feedback loop one nite setting up for a gig
and was lucky not to blow something. I've been looking at switching systems
such as the Ground Control GCX/Bradshaw type but they are pricey. You can
almost buy a Line 6 for the money. And now you've got me thinking about the
GP100 as a sound source again using models. Lots of options.... Oh yeah, for
my humbucking sound, I use a Hamer Archtop Studio with the usual JB/59 Duncan
setup. For the Strat thing I use a G and L Legacy Special. It has blade type
humbuckers that are hotter and darker (and punchier) than a regular Strat.
I've had a tone passive tone mod done that can take you from an almost
acoustic sound thru vintage Fender stratland to a nice mid boost for crunch
and solos. This guitar and the regular Legacys (a straight ahead single coil
version) are IMO, great guitars at great prices and are overlooked in by a
lot of players. I also occasionally bring out a G and L ASAT Classic for Tele
stuff. Also a Fender Strat Plus with 2 Van Zand Blues pick ups and a VZ
Vintage Plus in the neck slot for serious blues jams.
Pls:note, I'm trying to change the name on this thread as we have strayed far
from the original topic. I'll also try to send a copy to your email.
As always, I appreciate your info and if you are located anywhere near the SF
Bay area, lemme know where you're playing. I wanna hear that rig!
Best Regards
steve...@my-dejanews.com
Bay area, lemme know where I can come see you play. I wanna hear that rig!
The Fuchs Family
get are funny responses,no serious help. Only one or two guys offered
any solid advice. a
monoman
Where's the famous orange blob of epoxy?
Jonathan Krogh
monoman wrote in message <35e22...@news.total.net>...
>>> >Whoopsey forgot the URL http://www.ma.umist.ac.uk/rl/dumble.html
>
>Where's the famous orange blob of epoxy?
Thats why i pointed it out, there wasnt any.
Whoa a pre-BLOB dumble .....soak it in
Marc Ferguson
Ned Carlson
<afu...@erols.com> wrote:
>I've seen this link before. The amp seems very easy to trace out. All I
>get are funny responses,no serious help.
>Only one or two guys offered
>any solid advice.
If you'll go to http://www.dejanews.com , and
hit "Power Search" then search for "Dumble"
in "alt.guitar.amps", you'll find several hundred messages
telling you about everything anyone in this group
knows or cares to say about Dumbles, and several
explanations about why schematics are so difficult to
come by.
The problems the way I get it mainly boil down to these:
1. Probably 80% of all Dumbles extant are potted:
unless one gets the goop out, one cannot tell
what's in there. Few people with amps that go for
$12K used are going to let anyone do that.
2. Even folks with unpotted Dumbles may be
reluctant to allow anyone to sketch schematics
from them. If I had a amp worth $12K, I might not
be too hip on folks doing stuff that might decrease
its value, like making copies of it.
3. Dumble purportedly makes purchasers sign
some kind of non-disclosure agreement.
4. There's different varieties of Dumbles, all
of which one may fairly safely assume have been
tweaked one way or another. Chances are that no
two are exactly the same. So asking for a
schematic for a Dumble is sort of like asking for a Chilton
manual for a Duesenberg. (Whole 'nuther thread there!)
5. There aren't many Dumbles out there, anyway,
I imagine most amp techs have never seen one,
me included, except for pictures.
6. Probably the only folks with schematics are
boutique amp builders, who presumably would be
reluctant to share this information.
OK: Due to all this, this is unlikely to be info
one is going to gather from newsgroup postings.
If you'll read the other threads on Dumbles, you may understand
better some of the reasons for some of the smart remarks,
some folks are gonna be of the opinion that you're barking
up a tree.
Believe me, you're not alone, I'd like to know, too.
At least I know something about the transformers now.
Mark Durham
I'm looking at the block diagram and power supply schematic in the
TAB4. It's not the same model as in the web page below, but some interesting
things are shown. There is a driver stage after the PI(cathodyne?). By
adjusting the gain here you could drive the power amp into clipping at any
point you wanted. Not many guitar amps have this arrangement. The overdrive
process has a high voltage supply, so I'm guessing it must use a tube. Does
anyone know what the relay on the tonestack does? Maybe disconnects the
ground on the midrange? The power supply is also interesting. Eight
different filtered voltages and the choke is before the center tap of the
OT. That must be a big choke. Not much help sorry, mark
The Fuchs Family wrote in message <35E225BD...@erols.com>...
>I've seen this link before. The amp seems very easy to trace out. All I
>get are funny responses,no serious help. Only one or two guys offered
>any solid advice. a
>
>Ned Carlson wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:07:14 -0400, "Jonathan Krogh"
>> <j-gk...@carib-link.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Whoopsey forgot the URL http://www.ma.umist.ac.uk/rl/dumble.html
>>
>> Well, now I know that you can make at least on kind of Dumble
>> clone with Bassman xfmrs.
>>
>> Thanks, Jon!
>>
Marc Ferguson
Mark Durham wrote:
> Fuchs family,
> I'm looking at the block diagram and power supply schematic in the
> TAB4. It's not the same model as in the web page below, but some interesting
> things are shown. There is a driver stage after the PI(cathodyne?). By
Mr. Mark,
How 'bout showing us that block diagram? How "bout somebody enlarging that
photo? Then the whole group could guess what the hoodoo voodoo was or is.
Autoposy by a world class classroom. I once reverse engineered a Marshall
reworked by Kolbe before removing all mods (at the request of the owner). I
filled a small notebook with details. Pretty coolstuff.
He capped the bias to hell and back. I think I found 2000uf in the bias
circuit, IIRC.
Mark Durham
The block diagram I saw was on page 730 of Aspen Pittman's Tube Amp Book
vol. 4.
Marc Ferguson wrote in message <35E60522...@home.com>...