Fender Tonemaster 2x12 cabinet
Peter Alerich
I saw a used one at Sam Ash this weekend. The dude at Sam Ash said it
had Celestion Vintage 30's in it. All of my web research appears to
indicate that this cabinet came with Celestion Vintage 30's.
A Celestion Vintage 30 is a 60 watt speaker. Two of them will handle
120 watts. The cabinet is rated for 160 watts. What am I missing here?
Peter
Squier
Well there's a lot of varied info about this.
The Tone Master head and Tone Master cab(s) were
originally from Fender Custom Shop. Amp was hand wired.. etc.
The Celestion V30's (you could also order other speakers for it
although they normally came with V30's) in there were 'special order'
from Fender custom shop. It seems that Celestion slightly tweaked
them (and in this detail I am not sure whether they used slightly
larger coil or most people say they just used more doping on the
surround/cone) and so they could handle 80 watts each.
This was because the Tone Master head could put out its highest
rating into 4 ohms (160 watts). The Tone Master head didn't have
normal 4-8-16 ohm speaker outs - it had "Hi, Medium, Low" speaker settings.
Anyways the transformers on those amps could light up a small town
and impedance mismatch was no problem with that amp.
So in effect you could run a 16 ohm rated cab with a Hi (4 ohm) setting
on the Tone Master... or a closer mismatch (Medium) which was 8 ohm head setting.
It's all very bizarre and the Custom Shop designers must have
gotten into some good bud and smoked a lot of it. Damn good amp though.
So in short - the Tone Master cab was designed to handle
the max wattage available from the Tone Master head.
Most people will acknowledge that the Vintage 30's in those
cabs definitely were highly doped and so that additional rigidity
allowed the cones to handle the wattage without blowing apart.
There might be other things (larger coil and whatever else) that
Celestion did for Fender to get those V30's to handle the additional wattage.
Fender's Custom Shop was allowed a big budget for that amp project
and special ordering from Celestion UK was no problem.
All I can say about it. Current Fender support is not very helpful
in giving you accurate details about the V30 issue but some old timers
on other forums seem to know that the V30's in those Tone Master cabs
might look OEM - but they were custom ordered and spec'd for Tone Master cabs.
Even the magnets seem to be about 4 oz. heavier than regular Vintage 30's.
that's about it. it's hard to dispel myth from the real deal
but I have to go with the old timers on other fender forums that
actually worked at Fender during that time.
If you find out anything more - post it up.
Peter Alerich
>Well there's a lot of varied info about this.
Excellent info - thank you.
If these V30's are doped to be even stiffer than the standard issue
item then I'm glad I passed. I'm not a big fan of the V30 anyway and
really would rather have a lower wattage speaker. It sounded okay with
a Les Paul into a Marshall JCM800 combo they had in the store. I
didn't have my own guitar and amp to try it out with. I'm really
looking for a nice 1x12 but the price was very reasonable.
Thanks again for the info - that was a head scratcher.
Peter
Too Long in The Wasteland
>
> A Celestion Vintage 30 is a 60 watt speaker. Two of them will handle
> 120 watts. The cabinet is rated for 160 watts. What am I missing here?
>
> Peter
Maybe they are "vintage 30" that handle 80w?
Squier
yep. that's the problem with highly doped speakers.
you have to really apply some serious wattage to them
before they sound any good. There are speakers rated
at high wattage that actually sound decent being driven
by lower wattage amps - but they are not all doped up
and the surround slowly breaks in - those highly doped
speakers are so stiff they won't even start to break in
until pummeled by big wattage amps played full out.
If you want a bargain priced 1x12 that is new you could
always get one of those 1x12 Valve Jr cabs with the Eminence
Lady Luck speaker in them. They actually sound pretty good.
The Lady Luck speaker is like a warmer sounding V30.. sort of.
It's a 70 watt speaker but sounds good with as little as 5 or 10
watts being applied to it. Those cabs are inexpensive
(well they used to be - not sure the price now)
and yet they were birch ply constructed and well made.
I think they used to go for $99 or maybe a little over $100
at Musicians Friend (the same type cab from the same company
is the Blackheart 1x12 cab. Nearly the same cab as the Epiphone 1x12).
If you want a home made cab and can actually call up
and talk to the person making it and he doesn't charge
you outrageous prices -- then check out Jeff at
http://www.jdesigncabs.com
He makes cabs for many indie amp makers but also
makes cabs for anyone that wants one made. Excellent cabs.
I have a few of them and bandmates also got them from Jeff.
He makes a really nice lightweight pine cabs/tolex covered or
you could also get birch cabs (weigh a little more but are
less resonant than pine if that's what you prefer).
I'm not a shill for Jeff - just a very satisfied customer.
And I have personally played through the Epiphone 1x12 and
it's actually a very nice cab. If you are a brand snob you
might not like the "Epiphone" moniker on the cab though.
Peter Alerich
I have looked at but not played the Epihopone 1x12. GC has them for
$160. Egnater has a 1x12 offering and Marshall is coming out with one
in a few weeks. I'm gonna wait for that to arrive and take my amp and
guitar over there and do a little auditioning. I'll check out that
link, as well. I really should just bite the bullet and get the Avatar
1x12 with the G12H30.
Thanks for your input - I really do appreciate all the info.
Peter
Jim
NEVER buy a used cab without pulling the speakers/rear baffle.
A craigslist dude tried to sell me a 4x12 with "greenbacks." Of course,
when we pulled a speaker, it was NOT a greenback.
Peter Alerich
Patrick Fuller
Sorry to hijack an old thread, but i can field this one a little more
accurately (as i came across this thread looking for one of those
cabs)
The Tonemaster 2x12 came in 2 dif cabs. One with Celestion V30's, the
other with Celestion classic Lead 80's.
The 2 x 80's would be the 160W cab, so at face value the guy in the
store might have been wrong.
However a number of people have picked up the 160W second hand and
swapped them out for V 30's, cause that was they wanted.
Now here it gets confusing, but not dreadfully so.
Original Tonemaster cabs, with original V 30's, were 140 W. They were
70W speakers (as are Marshall V30's). Celestion offer, or Fender/
Marshall order them, specially made.
However, as you know retail V30's are 60W.
So even though its a moot point and you've moved on, as Jim said
earlier, best to check anything sold second hand, cause it could be
160W, 140W, or 120W.
Hope that was somewhat interesting. (it's 3.30am here in Sydney and
this is how i'm dealing with hangover/insomnia)
