The Groove Tubes Rating System
Rex Mundi
Groove Tubes rates their EL34's as follows:
1 - 3: Early distortion (wider range of distortion)
4 - 7: Normal distortion
8 -10: Late distortion (more clean power / headroom)
Thay say you should have your amp rebiased to accomodate these ratings.
Other tube makers don't rate like this.
How do I know the which Groove Tube matches the tubes I have GE EL34?
Is it better to have these options or is it a lot of hype?
drwow
Rex Mundi wrote:
> Groove Tubes rates their EL34's as follows:
>
> 1 - 3: Early distortion (wider range of distortion)
> 4 - 7: Normal distortion
> 8 -10: Late distortion (more clean power / headroom)
>
> Thay say you should have your amp rebiased to accomodate these ratings.
>
> Other tube makers don't rate like this.
>
> How do I know the which Groove Tube matches the tubes I have GE EL34?
none probably
>
> Is it better to have these options or is it a lot of hype?
mostly hype
dw
RoccaforteAmps
NOS tube manufacturers
never did this.
RoccaforteAmps.com™
PMG
>
>Groove Tubes rates their EL34's as follows:
>
>
>1 - 3: Early distortion (wider range of distortion)
>4 - 7: Normal distortion
>8 -10: Late distortion (more clean power / headroom)
>
>Thay say you should have your amp rebiased to accomodate these ratings.
That's not 100% true. You should have your amp rebiased when you
replace EL34 tubes, but accommodating their ratings isn't the reason
for doing it.
>Other tube makers don't rate like this.
>
>How do I know the which Groove Tube matches the tubes I have GE EL34?
If the GE EL34 tubes are still good, then they're better than anything
GrubsTubes has to sell. The only way I know to tell if they match
your old tubes is to have the bias checked. There's ways to check
tubes against each other, other than that for guys that know their
shit, but I somehow doubt that anyone takes an old tube out of an amp
and tries to measure it's bias for selecting a new tube to go in. I
could be wrong though.
>Is it better to have these options or is it a lot of hype?
It's pretty much to help market their tubes.
Pete
--
I've been in the dark most of my life --Mr. Know-It All
Rex Mundi
"Once you've biased your amp for your ideal tube rating number, you will not
have to rebias your amp the next time you change tubes, provided that you
stay with the same tube and rating."
"PMG" <avo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:vbs3rt4pt64o8thn0...@4ax.com...
Joe
Keep your GE's or go NOS.
Rex Mundi wrote in message ...
drwow
dw
andrewunix
:
:Groove Tubes rates their EL34's as follows:
It's a lot of hype, and Groove Tubes just relabels other companies'
product. Their "matched" sets aren't very tightly matched, either.
--
agreenbu @ nyx . net andrew michael greenburg
http://www.nyx.net/~agreenbu/
remove NOSPAM from address to reply.
andrewunix
:Quoted from musician's friend
:
:"Once you've biased your amp for your ideal tube rating number, you will not
:have to rebias your amp the next time you change tubes, provided that you
:stay with the same tube and rating."
Bias drifts over time. It's ALWAYS a good idea to rebias with new tubes
(especially considering how much GT product varies), and bias should
probably be checked every 6-12 months or so to make sure that it hasn't
drifted too far.
Rex Mundi
"Joe" <joe...@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:m1ns7.66$bY4....@typhoon2.gnilink.net...
DBCooper41
>From: drwow dr...@mac.com
>Date: 9/26/01 12:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3BB1FF2F...@mac.com>
>
>Musician's Friend ......... now there's an oxymoron,
what about that girl waiting by the bus? she was certainly a musician's
friend.
of course she did kinda look like an ox and act like a moron.
PMG
manufactures would vanish before the 21st century. Some of the best
tubes are the ones that were manufactured in the USA years ago, if you
can find them.
Pete
--
Glenn
sells tubes made by other manufacturers. I've had bad luck with them. Buy
good quality tubes and have someone who knows what he's doing re-bias your
amp!
Glenn
Rex Mundi <vi...@crime.org> wrote in message
news:EDns7.50$9d....@newshog.newsread.com...
Lord Valve
LV
TimePixDC
>Date: Wed, Sep 26, 2001 3:20 PM
Now that's a really helpful answer to what is probably a serious question.
drwow
DBCooper41 wrote:
> >Subject: Re: The Groove Tubes Rating System
> >From: drwow dr...@mac.com
> >Date: 9/26/01 12:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <3BB1FF2F...@mac.com>
> >
> >Musician's Friend ......... now there's an oxymoron,
>
> what about that girl waiting by the bus? she was certainly a musician's
> friend.
But not ..... "Musician's Friend" ... the retailer, ( I thought the
capitalization was a give away )
>
> of course she did kinda look like an ox and act like a moron.
in this case, ox and moron are probably synonymous.
dw
andrewunix
:
:Now that's a really helpful answer to what is probably a serious question.
I'm surprised that there's nothing about the Groove Tubes and Mesa rating
systems in the FAQ.
PMG
wrote:
>26 Sep 2001 20:22:39 GMT, time...@aol.com suggested:
>:
>:Now that's a really helpful answer to what is probably a serious question.
>
>I'm surprised that there's nothing about the Groove Tubes and Mesa rating
>systems in the FAQ.
LV's "AAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHH!" might be sufficient to cover it in the
FAQ. But I liked what you said about drift too.
Pete
Spike
I have some Groove tubes that were "matched"
when biased in a real world amp the bastards
are 5 MA off. Enough to have one running cold
and the other glowing cherry red.
Now, if I had individual tube bias control for that
amp(instead of pair bias control) I would be a happier
camper.
So what was my solution?
I matched up 8 tungsol 5881s in pairs.
Using the amp and my meter to match
them properly.
Now my amp really sings.
Regards,
Spike
Mustard
clicked.
Mustard
Robert M. Braught
>
> Quoted from musician's friend
>
> "Once you've biased your amp for your ideal tube rating number, you will not
> have to rebias your amp the next time you change tubes, provided that you
> stay with the same tube and rating."
That's a sale point (for Groove Tubes), and FWIW I would consider it
valid *if* Groove Tubes actually spec'd their fare tight enough... I
personally can't state whether they do or not (I don't sell/use GTs),
but from what I've read here at AGA the consistency isn't there.
I'd love for GT to publish 'tube grading guidelines' (electrical specs)
that would allow someone (with appropriate test gear) to 'grade' tubes
against their 'system'. Not to 'rip them off', but to allow qualified
field service when someone wants to replicate a 'Groove Tube Phenomena'
(whatever the heck that might be!)
My best advice (i.e. if you're talking a 50w 2-tube amp) is to get a
nice matched quad to begin with, then you've already got a 'pre-biased'
pair spare.
-Robert
QTS
http://www.Braught.com
"Oh contrare? A spare pair is fair! I dare to repair in my lair on a
chair, do you care?"
PMG
wipe coffee off my monitor. But admittedly, some of those were Danny
Thomas spit takes, strictly for the effect.
Pete
On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 21:22:34 GMT, kf...@REMOVETHIS.erols.com (Mustard)
wrote:
--
Lord Valve
Robert M. Braught wrote:
> I'd love for GT to publish 'tube grading guidelines' (electrical specs)
> that would allow someone (with appropriate test gear) to 'grade' tubes
> against their 'system'. Not to 'rip them off', but to allow qualified
> field service when someone wants to replicate a 'Groove Tube Phenomena'
> (whatever the heck that might be!)
I've done it for Fender/GT and Mesa-Boogie...so far.
If I had access to a shitload of *new* GT product, I
could do it in a week.
LV
Dwave Tone
nitrous-oxide. It's what they use for the vacuum in those "New, Old
Stock" tubes. Makes for a *very* happy, extremely fast amp.
:0)
Dave
PMG <avo...@home.com> wrote in message news:<hq84rton1gotab17m...@4ax.com>...
PMG
nitrous injector plates on my Bassman once (they claimed I could use
it without rebiasing!) but the head kept jumping of the cabinet. It
needed new shocks.
Pete
--
Rich Koerner
Rex Mundi wrote:
>
> Groove Tubes rates their EL34's as follows:
Translation!!!!!!
> 1 - 3: Early distortion (wider range of distortion)
Lower cathode emission with OK gain.
It's an off spec tube.
> 4 - 7: Normal distortion
Considered a Normal, on spec tube.
What ever the hell, that means.
> 8 -10: Late distortion (more clean power / headroom)
OK cathode emission, with lower gain.
Again, an off spec tube.
IT'S THE LESS THAN SCIENTIFIC EAR SONIC EVALUATION TUBE SPEC METHOD FOR
ANY AMP AT ANY VOLTAGE BS GRADING SYSTEM FOR THE SELECTION OF THE NON
INFORMED AMP OWNER FOR MARKET PLACE SELECTION OF,...............
<thinking>
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<thinking>
This fellow may be a new here.
<thinking>
He may not know what the term means.
<thinking>
I should whip up something in great detail to be included in the AGA FAQ
on the subject, and maybe this grading system too one day.
<thinking>
But, for now..............
<thinking>
Oh Well........ Why Not!!!!!!!!!
POLISHED TURDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Thay say you should have your amp rebiased to accomodate these ratings.
>
> Other tube makers don't rate like this.
Well, RCA published their specs in their Tube MANUALS!!!!!!!!!!
GE had theirs too!!!!!
The other USA manufactures would supply there specs too.
With the imports, only a few of them, gave them up. Svetlana was ok
with theirs.
It was a military secret with the others.
> How do I know the which Groove Tube matches the tubes I have GE EL34?
Chances are very good the you could drive, a fully load 18 wheeler
through the gap, between those tubes.
> Is it better to have these options or is it a lot of hype?
Well, YOU TELL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take A LOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://timeelect.com/whatisit.htm
If you get your hands on some of those GT rascals at Guitar Center or
Sam Ash, Compare them to the other brands in the blister packs they
carry. Notice how much they ALL look alike. Then look at the marking
on ALL the tubes very carefully. Check for hidden markings on the
outside glass surfaces. Like hold them up to the light and see what is
under the outside printing on the glass.
Pay attention to the look at the inner construction appearances for
similarities too!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you will get the picture.
Regards,
Rich Koerner,
Time Electronics.
http://www.timeelect.com
Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
Music & Studio Production,
Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
Rich Koerner
andrewunix wrote:
>
> Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:00:53 GMT, vi...@crime.org suggested:
> :Quoted from musician's friend
> :
> :"Once you've biased your amp for your ideal tube rating number, you will not
> :have to rebias your amp the next time you change tubes, provided that you
> :stay with the same tube and rating."
>
> Bias drifts over time. It's ALWAYS a good idea to rebias with new tubes
> (especially considering how much GT product varies), and bias should
> probably be checked every 6-12 months or so to make sure that it hasn't
> drifted too far.
Fixed bias doesn't drift, unless there is malfunction in the bias
circuit.
It's the Polished Turds, loosing their shine, that requires bias
re-adjustment.
In a QUALITY Made Tube, there is very little drift to compensate for.
<thinking>
Not long ago, I pulled from an SVT a set of GE-6550A's that had seen
continuous weekend and three day a week usage. They biased up in the
same place, but were just a little short on emission for full power
signal delivery to the load.
The owner kept the GE's as spares, and a set of the best Polished Turds
went in.
So, what are the odds, these PT's will last six years like the GE's did,
yielding the same performance levels throughout.
Phil Allison
> Groove Tubes rates their EL34's as follows:
>
>
>
>
> Other tube makers don't rate like this.
>
Jim Marshall (the man behind the badge) has been quoted in
several publications as saying he thought "Groove Tubes are just about
the smoothest scam I have ever seen".
So far he hasn't been sued, maybe they took it as a compliment!
Regards, Phil
BobF
GT's in their amps!
"Phil Allison" <bi...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:cb5da328.01092...@posting.google.com...
Hector
Not that I'd give up my NOS collection and start buying GTs, but, that said,
it's not a half-bad tube. I have no idea of its provenence, and it's
definitely no Mullard, RCA, or even Sylvania soundwise, but it is tolerable.
Maybe it's just that I didn't expect much from it. It says GTEL84S on it, if
that means anything to anyone, and has spiral leads at the bottom of the
envelope.
Hector
"BobF" <rfre...@home.com> wrote in message
news:akFs7.4115$Pr1.7...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
RoccaforteAmps
>What does this say about Fender? They're touting >the fact that they use
>GT's in their amps! >>
Facts from Fender:
They used to do their own matching
at one time,
and had nothing but problems.
This is the reason the pulled all
their Fender branded tubes off the shelf.
(Im talking custom packaged tubes like
Mojo ect... was selling)
They switched to Groove only to
solve this problem.
Hasnt made the quality of whats
out there any better.
Doug
RoccaforteAmps.com
Gary Gerhart
Spike wrote:
> Geez Rex,
>
> I have some Groove tubes that were "matched"
> when biased in a real world amp the bastards
> are 5 MA off. Enough to have one running cold
> and the other glowing cherry red.
>
>
OK I'll bite...
How is 5ma enough to cause one tube to glow cherry, and the other to run cold?
Are you running 1500 v on the plates, or something???
--
Gary Gerhart
www.GerhartAmps.com
Robert M. Braught
-Robert
Gary Gerhart
RoyB
Jim Marshall is a drummer. If Ken Bran had said it, I might give it
credence. Ken Fischer likes Groove tubes, so does H. Alexander Dumble.
Rich Koerner
BobF wrote:
>
> What does this say about Fender? They're touting the fact that they use
> GT's in their amps!
It's says, the made a deal the GT could live with!!!!!
What ever it takes to float their boats.
But the water smell of Polished Turds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Catch the drift!!!!!!!!!!! :(
Rich Koerner
RoccaforteAmps wrote:
>
> <<rfreeze wrote:
> >What does this say about Fender? They're touting >the fact that they use
> >GT's in their amps! >>
>
> Facts from Fender:
> They used to do their own matching
> at one time,
> and had nothing but problems.
They don't know SHIT about tubes.
Like they don't know shit about amps either!!!!!!
Hey, they are in the amp business, ain't they!!!!!!
> This is the reason the pulled all
> their Fender branded tubes off the shelf.
> (Im talking custom packaged tubes like
> Mojo ect... was selling)
> They switched to Groove only to
> solve this problem.
> Hasnt made the quality of whats
> out there any better.
The *quality* of an amps performance can only be as good as, the QUALITY
of the Tubes within.
Show me an example where the use of Polished Turds, IMPROVED
Anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PMG
wrote:
>
>
>RoccaforteAmps wrote:
>>
>> <<rfreeze wrote:
>> >What does this say about Fender? They're touting >the fact that they use
>> >GT's in their amps! >>
>>
>> Facts from Fender:
>> They used to do their own matching
>> at one time,
>> and had nothing but problems.
>
>They don't know SHIT about tubes.
>
>Like they don't know shit about amps either!!!!!!
>
>Hey, they are in the amp business, ain't they!!!!!!
>
>
>> This is the reason the pulled all
>> their Fender branded tubes off the shelf.
>> (Im talking custom packaged tubes like
>> Mojo ect... was selling)
>> They switched to Groove only to
>> solve this problem.
>> Hasnt made the quality of whats
>> out there any better.
>
>
>The *quality* of an amps performance can only be as good as, the QUALITY
>of the Tubes within.
>
>Show me an example where the use of Polished Turds, IMPROVED
>Anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That would be the Turd Polisher's bank account.
Pete
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Rich Koerner,
>Time Electronics.
>http://www.timeelect.com
>
>Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
> Music & Studio Production,
>Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
--