Lace Sensors Pros and Cons?
Jay Caputo
Anyone care to comment on Fender Lace Sensor Pickups vs. other types? Please state what music style your
playing or prefer.
Tremolux
Pros: They're quiet. They have fairly high output level.
Cons: They just don't sound "right", like a Strat should.
I'm a blues-man.
Mike Yoshida
Jay Caputo wrote:
>
> Anyone care to comment on Fender Lace Sensor Pickups vs. other types? Please state what music style your
> playing or prefer.
Pros: quiet, resistant to hum (from different sources like neon signs,
etc), they process really nicely (ie, if you use lots of effects or
distortion, they still sound good... Possibly better than usual!)
Cons: Some say they are too hi-fi sounding (like active p/u's), but
thats all a matter of opinion...
Personally, I like them. They can sound like a strat (the gold ones) or
give you a completely different set of sounds (I get a convincing SG
sound with a Blue in neck position). I play high-gain and heavily
effected (eg, flange-chorus-phase-distortion-distortion-distrotion type
chains) rock as well as blues (guitar strait into a tube amp). They are
quite versatile! :)
Mike
Steve Trembley
Jay Caputo wrote:
>
> Anyone care to comment on Fender Lace Sensor Pickups vs. other types? Please state what music style your
> playing or prefer.
The 2 gold (neck/middle) and 1 red lace sensors on my 89 Strat Plus with
the TBX tone pot centered sound quieter and every bit as good as the
beefy stock p/u's on my stock 80 Anniversary Strat. Been playing
blues/R&B for 30yrs.
Steve Trembley
Jeffrey Potoff
Jay Caputo wrote:
>
> Anyone care to comment on Fender Lace Sensor Pickups vs. other types? Please state what music style your
> playing or prefer.
I play blues / blues-rock and I happen to like
the gold lace sensors. They don't sound quite like
the normal Fender pickups, but I can get close with
a careful tweak of the amp controls and my tone
knob. The pickups are quiet and I can get just about
every sound I could ever think of out of one
guitar. They're not for everyone, but neither are
high output super distortion pickups either.
I say take them for a test drive and see what you
think.
Jeff
Richard Lindsey
Tremolux wrote:
>
> They just don't sound "right", like a Strat should.
>
>
Well, Clapton and Beck might beg to differ. :-)
JB
Tremolux wrote:
>
> Pros: They're quiet. They have fairly high output level.
>
>
> I'm a blues-man.
I agree with the con. I've tried 'em, they sound OK but just don't have
the same sound as regular old single coils. However, I think I now have
the ultimate solution in my strat that provides hum canceling without
losing tone. A long time friend/guitar tech has come up with a solution
that can be added to a stock pickup configuration that almost completely
eliminates they hum associated with single coils. They system, dubbed
the Dummybucker, consists of a dummy coil and few small components, a 9V
and an on/off switch.
The system requires some body routing under the pickguard to install the
dummy coil so if you're concerned about the current or future "vintage
value" of your guitar, this may not be for you. However, if you're more
interested in preserving tone, this is a great way to go. This is a low
power circut so they 9v should last several hundred hours. The on/off
switch isn't required but is cool just to contrast the differences.
I've had this in my guitar for a week or so and can't believe the
difference. If anyone is interested, you can email me for more details.
George Kaschner
Richard Lindsey (rlin...@rivertown.net) wrote:
: Tremolux wrote:
: >
: Well, Clapton and Beck might beg to differ. :-)
Or they might confess they are willing to compromise tone for low noise.
As a previous poster noted, they sound alright if you use a lot of
processing. It's the clean, straight guitar-to-amp sound that suffers.
George Kaschner
Teleologist
Richard Lindsey wrote:
>
> Tremolux wrote:
> >
> > They just don't sound "right", like a Strat should.
> >
> >
>
> Well, Clapton and Beck might beg to differ. :-)
their most notable work on non-signature instruments! Clapton's
'real' Blackie did not have sensors, SRV never recorded anything
with his signature guitar(probably never played it outside the
Fender factory!), and Beck's favorite Tele has Duncans on it. :)
I've often thought about a single coil pickup with 2 coils wound
opposite polarity around 3 poles each with opposite magnetic
polarity - sorta like a P-Bass pickup but in a strat shaped
single unit. In another post, it was mentioned that this is how
the Evans pickups are made. Has anyone tried them? How do they
compare to Sensors & stock Fenders?
Mark Garvin
In <31FDF6...@Sorry.NoEmail> Teleologist <Teleo...@Sorry.NoEmail> writes:
>People are always forgetting - Most of these artists did much of
>their most notable work on non-signature instruments! Clapton's
>'real' Blackie did not have sensors, SRV never recorded anything
>with his signature guitar(probably never played it outside the
>Fender factory!), and Beck's favorite Tele has Duncans on it. :)
>
>I've often thought about a single coil pickup with 2 coils wound
>opposite polarity around 3 poles each with opposite magnetic
>polarity - sorta like a P-Bass pickup but in a strat shaped
>single unit. In another post, it was mentioned that this is how
>the Evans pickups are made. Has anyone tried them? How do they
>compare to Sensors & stock Fenders?
Evans pickups are about the quietest 'single-coil' sounding pickups
you'll find. Very precise coil matching. I'm not sure how he does
it.
Jeff Healy uses them, at least on the first album. That sound is
pretty typical of the Evans.
Evans also makes a humbucker-sized pickup with two separate, quiet,
'single-coils'. So when it's split, the pickup doesn't start humming.
In dual mode, it doesn't sound exactly like a typical humbucker to me
(which is OK), but it does thicken the sound quite a bit.
MGarvin
Robert Fries
Richard Lindsey <rlin...@rivertown.net> wrote:
>Tremolux wrote:
>>
>> They just don't sound "right", like a Strat should.
>>
>>
>Well, Clapton and Beck might beg to differ. :-)
I doubt they have to beg for anything :-)
Robert
*****************
Robert Fries
rfr...@netcom.com
*****************
Eric Defferard
In article <31FD57...@us.oracle.com>, jbar...@us.oracle.com says...
Yes, Yes , Yes !!! Please post the details....
Ricket
Aguyathome
SRV never recorded anything
with his signature guitar(probably never played it outside the
Fender factory!), and Beck's favorite Tele has Duncans on it. :)
<<<It would have been very hard for Stevie Ray to play his signature model
ever! He died in 1991 and Fender's SRV signature model(commisioned by
Stevies family) wasn't even a reality until a couple of years or so after
his death! He would have had to have owned a time machine even to touch
the thing.
Tremolux
>>>Well, Clapton and Beck might beg to differ. :-)
Let them. I think both those guys have shitty tone.
Peter Bradt
I personally can't stand them (lace sensors) . I've heard them in a lot of
applications and I'll take the hum of Lindy Fralins or Van Zandts for the
tone. I have Telecasters, one with the VZs, one with LFs and I'd *never
ever* trade either pickup set for Sensors. Very sterile sounding to
me...pete
Carl Fiadino
>>
>>
>
Well, They don't sound like "Blackie" Clapton's main Strat for many
years. That had a nice vintage sound.
As to Beck, he uses a Rat, does it make any diff. what pickups
he uses?
TimTube
In article <4tk74q$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, trem...@aol.com (Tremolux)
writes:
>>>>Well, Clapton and Beck might beg to differ. :-)
>
>Let them. I think both those guys have shitty tone.
Let's see, that would be the Bluesbreaker album? and Rough and Ready? and
Derek and the Dominos? and Beckola ? and Disreali Gears ? and Truth? and
...
I guess I would strongly disagree. These to me anyhow are some monumental
examples of great, inovative guitar tones.
Tremolux, who do you consider to have great tone?
Tim
A great amp can make a lousy guitar sound great.
A lousy amp will make a great guitar sound lousy.
William R Rodrick
Tremolux (trem...@aol.com) wrote:
: >>>Well, Clapton and Beck might beg to differ. :-)
: Let them. I think both those guys have shitty tone.
Just curious - did you like Clapton's or Beck's tone when they were using
Strats with original 50s or 60s Strat pickups? Each has changed his sound
somewhat, but I'm not sure how much of the difference is due to the change
in pickups. I say this because, although I like Beck's playing, I have
never liked his Strat sound very much, either pre-or-post Lace Sensor.
Bill (a recent convert to Gold Lace Sensors)
M. Diewald
JB <jbar...@us.oracle.com> writes:
>Tremolux wrote:
>>
>> Pros: They're quiet. They have fairly high output level.
>>
>> Cons: They just don't sound "right", like a Strat should.
>>
Absolutely. I dont like em.
Get Duncan Alnicos and live with the hum :)
>> I'm a blues-man.
Me too!
>I agree with the con. I've tried 'em, they sound OK but just don't have
>the same sound as regular old single coils. However, I think I now have
>the ultimate solution in my strat that provides hum canceling without
>losing tone. A long time friend/guitar tech has come up with a solution
>that can be added to a stock pickup configuration that almost completely
>eliminates they hum associated with single coils. They system, dubbed
>the Dummybucker, consists of a dummy coil and few small components, a 9V
>and an on/off switch.
You can as well try SD stacked single coils. No hum and a very good
strat sound if you combine it with a TBX control to boost the highs..
DiMarzio probably sells a similar design single coil...
>The system requires some body routing under the pickguard to install the
>dummy coil so if you're concerned about the current or future "vintage
>value" of your guitar, this may not be for you. However, if you're more
>interested in preserving tone, this is a great way to go. This is a low
>power circut so they 9v should last several hundred hours. The on/off
>switch isn't required but is cool just to contrast the differences.
No body routing required with the SDs....
Martin
Bob Bowden
Excuse my editing, gang
mga...@panix.com (Mark Garvin) wrote:
>In <31FDF6...@Sorry.NoEmail> Teleologist <Teleo...@Sorry.NoEmail> writes:
>>I've often thought about a single coil pickup with 2 coils wound
>>opposite polarity around 3 poles each with opposite magnetic
>>polarity - sorta like a P-Bass pickup but in a strat shaped
>>single unit. In another post, it was mentioned that this is how
>>the Evans pickups are made. Has anyone tried them? How do they
>>compare to Sensors & stock Fenders?
According to Rod Evans himself, that is exactly how he designed his
pickups. He said he was trying to emulate a '57 Strat but remember
that in '57, two consecutive guitars off the assembly line could be
totally different.
I've been using them for 9 years on my Strat and have no plans on
changing. Another cool idea is the use of a 3 pin plug on the p/u
instead of hard wiring. If you want to change one, just unscrew it
from the pickguard and unplug (no soldering).
>Evans pickups are about the quietest 'single-coil' sounding pickups
>you'll find. Very precise coil matching. I'm not sure how he does
>it.
Quiet is not the word for it. At one time I had a Duncan JB humbucker
mounted by the bridge with Evans for neck and middle. Anytime the JB
picked up a 60 hz signal the Evans were still dead quiet. No noise at
all.
>Jeff Healy uses them, at least on the first album. That sound is
>pretty typical of the Evans.
When Jeff was still playing the bar circuit and "See the Light" was
still an indy single, he mostly played a black Squier with red Evans.
I think his backup guitars were also Evans equipped.
>Evans also makes a humbucker-sized pickup with two separate, quiet,
>'single-coils'. So when it's split, the pickup doesn't start humming.
>In dual mode, it doesn't sound exactly like a typical humbucker to me
>(which is OK), but it does thicken the sound quite a bit.
Haven't tried them. I used the JB before this model came out and went
back to an Evans 'single-coil' after.
>MGarvin
Just after Evans pickups came out, he rented one of Vancouver's major
nightclubs for an afternoon complete with performances and
testimonials from people like Randy Bachman and Randy Hansen during
one of his non-Jimi phases. It was one hell of a show and free too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Bowden Caution: Objects in your monitor
bob_b...@mindlink.bc.ca may be closer than they appear.
http://mindlink.net/bob_bowden/home.htm
Michael Cullen
ez00...@dale.ucdavis.edu (George Kaschner), far, far away from here,
appears to have written:
>Richard Lindsey (rlin...@rivertown.net) wrote:
>: Tremolux wrote:
>: >
>: > They just don't sound "right", like a Strat should.
>:
>: Well, Clapton and Beck might beg to differ. :-)
>
>Or they might confess they are willing to compromise tone for low noise.
>As a previous poster noted, they sound alright if you use a lot of
>processing. It's the clean, straight guitar-to-amp sound that suffers.
>
>George Kaschner
This is definitely a case of YMMV. Do *you* like the sound? Do *you* like
the lack of noise? I've got some in a guitar, actives in another and
straight passives in my other. They all sound different, so i use 'em for
different things. Overall though, If I was forced to have only 1 guitar,
I'd be very happy to have the LS's in it. (PS - Before anyone starts
thinking that I'm a guitar fascist :-) , none of the axes are terribly
expensive. Nice, but not real expensive.... My wife wouldn't let me own
*too* many expensive guitars :-)
cheers,
Mic. (http://www.iap.net.au/~tiger/)
Cross Purposes Studios (Web & Graphic Design)
Akbar Anwari
def...@eunet.ch (Eric Defferard) wrote:
A long time friend/guitar tech has come up with a solution
>>that can be added to a stock pickup configuration that almost completely
>>eliminates they hum associated with single coils. They system, dubbed
>>the Dummybucker, consists of a dummy coil and few small components, a 9V
>>and an on/off switch.
Alembic came up with a similar solution in the early 70's. I
don't know if they still use it or not.
Kap'n
Tremolux
>>>Just curious - did you like Clapton's or Beck's tone when they were
using
Strats with original 50s or 60s Strat pickups?
No.
gary watts
JB (jbar...@us.oracle.com) wrote:
: the same sound as regular old single coils. However, I think I now have
: eliminates they hum associated with single coils. They system, dubbed
: the Dummybucker, consists of a dummy coil and few small components, a 9V
: and an on/off switch.
Tyler guitars also sells this in their guitars from the factory. Not a
new concept as I can tell. There is some loading of the extra coil
which will decrease the top end slightly.
Gary Watts
Carl Fiadino
Fender supposably gave him a prototype, but I dought he played it. Carl
Carl Fiadino
tim...@aol.com (TimTube) wrote:
>In article <4tk74q$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, trem...@aol.com (Tremolux)
>writes:
>
>>
>
>Derek and the Dominos? and Beckola ? and Disreali Gears ? and Truth? and
>...
>
can find fault with any old Beck or Clapton tone.
I just got a tape of Beck, Bogert + Appice never released 2nd
album. Beck at his best. Beautiful Les Paul tones thru-out.
He hasn't played or sounded that good for years. Carl
William R Rodrick
M. Diewald (btp...@newsserv.uni-bayreuth.de) wrote:
: >Tremolux wrote:
: >> Cons: They just don't sound "right", like a Strat should.
: Absolutely. I dont like em.
: >> I'm a blues-man.
: Me too!
I think this underscores the prevailing attitude towards "Tone" on these
guitar newsgroups - behind most statements about "good tone" seems to
lurk the assumption that if a pickup/amp/speaker measures up to some
indefinable standard of "bluesiness", then it sounds good, otherwise
it's not worthy of consideration and may even be hazardous to your
manhood (sorry, women).
I don't have a problem with that; I just think it's good to be aware of
this bias so that it doesn't automatically steer you away from something
that might work well for you.
Bill Rodrick
OCEAN DIG
" although never better
than in "Blow by Blow" playing his Les Paul IMHO, and he's always coming
up with something new."
Despite the pretty LP cover, Beck played a Strat on 'Blow by Blow"....a
stock one, at that....
OCEAN DIG.@aol.com
(T Hartman)
Kevin James
In article <4tkr6p$b...@btr0x1.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de>,
btp...@newsserv.uni-bayreuth.de (M. Diewald) wrote:
> JB <jbar...@us.oracle.com> writes:
>
> >Tremolux wrote:
> >>
> >> Pros: They're quiet. They have fairly high output level.
> >>
> >> Cons: They just don't sound "right", like a Strat should.
> >>
> Absolutely. I dont like em.
> Get Duncan Alnicos and live with the hum :)
>
> >> I'm a blues-man.
>
> Me too!
>
> >I agree with the con. I've tried 'em, they sound OK but just don't have
> >the same sound as regular old single coils. However, I think I now have
> >the ultimate solution in my strat that provides hum canceling without
> >losing tone. A long time friend/guitar tech has come up with a solution
> >that can be added to a stock pickup configuration that almost completely
> >eliminates they hum associated with single coils. They system, dubbed
> >the Dummybucker, consists of a dummy coil and few small components, a 9V
> >and an on/off switch.
>
> You can as well try SD stacked single coils. No hum and a very good
> strat sound if you combine it with a TBX control to boost the highs..
> DiMarzio probably sells a similar design single coil...
>
> >The system requires some body routing under the pickguard to install the
> >dummy coil so if you're concerned about the current or future "vintage
> >value" of your guitar, this may not be for you. However, if you're more
> >interested in preserving tone, this is a great way to go. This is a low
> >power circut so they 9v should last several hundred hours. The on/off
> >switch isn't required but is cool just to contrast the differences.
>
> No body routing required with the SDs....
>
Just wanted to add Dimarzio HS-1, HS-2, and HS-3s, which I think sound
much closer to that "real Strat" tone than the Lace Sensors. They are very
quiet, and like the SDs fit into a Strat without any routing.
Kevin
.
Jay Caputo
True, true. There is just something about that classic tone that hooks my sentimental ear. The tones of Stevie
Ray Vaughan, Albert Collins, et al. are the roots of my ear's knowledge of tone and I can't help but compare
to and favor these earliest sounds. Yet, the reason I went with these lace sensors in the first place was I
wanted to go in a new direction, albeit not to different. I think the only solution is to buy another guitar
with classic tone setup. Well, its back to work I go.
J
Gil Ayan
In a previous article, tim...@aol.com (TimTube) says:
>>>>>Well, Clapton and Beck might beg to differ. :-)
>>Let them. I think both those guys have shitty tone.
>Let's see, that would be the Bluesbreaker album? and Rough and Ready? and
>Derek and the Dominos? and Beckola ? and Disreali Gears ? and Truth? and
>I guess I would strongly disagree. These to me anyhow are some monumental
>examples of great, inovative guitar tones.
Tim, they guy wrote: Clapton and Beck "HAVE" bad tone. I am not sure
about Beck because he's always sounded good to me, although never better
than in "Blow by Blow" playing his Les Paul IMHO, and he's always coming
up with something new. So even if I don't like his tone as much nowadays, I
don't get turned off by it.
On the other hand, Eric Clapton is a very different story all together.
Yes, in the Bluesbreakers he sounded terrific; in Cream he had great
moments; in Layla, although different, his sound was applealing to me.
In Lay Down Sally his playing is quite differet, and his sound is not
even close to what it used to be. However, when he had that mid boost
added to the STrat things went totally out the window as far as I'm
concerned. That sound is horrible, and of course Buddy Guy had to get
one of those in his guitar as well, so he cops Calpton's lousy sound. Of
course, in Guy's case he sounds like crap for other reasons as well. I
cannot believe it, some of the old Buddy Guy records had some very good,
tasteful playing in them. The times I've seen Buddy Guy on TV recently,
I wonder about him.
Bottom line: having good tone during a period of time doesn't ensure that
everything you play is always going to sound great. Prime example, Mr.
Eric Clapton, probably my strongest influence... many many years ago though.
Gil
BTW: I did see Clapton live at the House of Blues in L.A. during the
"From the Cradle" tour. His sound was better, maybe because he used a
335 for most of the night, but it wasn't even close to his bluesbreaker tone.
--
TIMOTHY GUEGUEN
gary watts (gwa...@cv.hp.com) wrote:
: JB (jbar...@us.oracle.com) wrote:
: : the same sound as regular old single coils. However, I think I now have
: : losing tone. A long time friend/guitar tech has come up with a solution
: : that can be added to a stock pickup configuration that almost completely
: : eliminates they hum associated with single coils. They system, dubbed
: : the Dummybucker, consists of a dummy coil and few small components, a 9V
: : and an on/off switch.
: Tyler guitars also sells this in their guitars from the factory. Not a
: new concept as I can tell. There is some loading of the extra coil
: which will decrease the top end slightly.
: Gary Watts
Steve Vai used a similar concept in his Frank Zappa days with the heavily
modified Strat he used at the time. He did have a bit of trouble as time
went on with the pickup he used as a dummy coil actually picking up
vibrations and feeding back some, as it is in circuit with the "real"
pickups.
tim gueguen ad...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
David Jacoby
>Tim, they guy wrote: Clapton and Beck "HAVE" bad tone. I am not sure
>about Beck because he's always sounded good to me, although never better
>than in "Blow by Blow" playing his Les Paul IMHO, and he's always coming
>up with something new. So even if I don't like his tone as much nowadays, I
>don't get turned off by it.
I've never been the big Beck fan, so what I know of his tone is based
on some old Yardbirds stuff, The _Guitar Shop_ album and the _Best of
Beck_ album (_Best of Beck_? Where's "Loser"? Where's "Beercan"? B)
and I can't say that I'm overly impressed by the tone. While I didn't
listen to "People Get Ready" closely enough when I first heard it to
notice or appreciate tone, I've come to the decision that while his
*PLAYING* is great, his tone is a textbook of what not to do.
>On the other hand, Eric Clapton is a very different story all together.
>Yes, in the Bluesbreakers he sounded terrific; in Cream he had great
>moments; in Layla, although different, his sound was applealing to me.
>In Lay Down Sally his playing is quite differet, and his sound is not
>even close to what it used to be. However, when he had that mid boost
>added to the STrat things went totally out the window as far as I'm
>concerned. That sound is horrible, and of course Buddy Guy had to get
>one of those in his guitar as well, so he cops Calpton's lousy sound. Of
>course, in Guy's case he sounds like crap for other reasons as well. I
>cannot believe it, some of the old Buddy Guy records had some very good,
>tasteful playing in them. The times I've seen Buddy Guy on TV recently,
>I wonder about him.
I haven't heard enough about Buddy Guy recently to judge, but I got his
Best of album from Rhino and I can't hear what Eric and every other
bluesman got all worked up over. Maybe I'm too busy or too sober when
I listen....
But Clapton, the last tone of his (and song of his) that really worked
for me is "Wonderful Tonight." That tone and that bending in the chorus
and that voice and that tempo really sing the "Caught in a loveless
marriage blues" more than anything I've heard except for things from
_Shoot Out The Lights_.
(Well, that's not true. He got great tone out of those Martins in
Unplugged, but I believe that people in comas could get good tone out
of Martins, and since they're acoustics, they're not subject to the
tone boost electronics this thread is arguing about.)
--Dave
--
David Jacoby mailto:jac...@ecn.purdue.edu
Web Technician and Librarian http://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/~jacoby
Engineering Computer Network One of those Condescending UNIX Users
---------------------------------------------------------------------
thu...@maple.circa.ufl.edu
In article <31FCEF...@rivertown.net>, Richard Lindsey <rlin...@rivertown.net> writes:
>Tremolux wrote:
>>
>> They just don't sound "right", like a Strat should.
>>
>>
>
Well, Clapton has a active circuit in his guitar so he can regain some of
the "strat" tone. And beck uses them damn Rats so you cant even tell with
all that distortion.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Thunder _ _
Mesa Boogie Amps O O
Rocktron and Boss Effects <
Ibanez Guitars \__/
Peace in the middle east!
University of Florida Fave Bands: Dream Theater, Steve Vai, Pantera!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Mark Garvin
In <4ts4el$r...@news.onramp.net> Nick Schepis <stra...@onramp.net> writes:
>trem...@aol.com (Tremolux) wrote:
>>>>>Well, Clapton and Beck might beg to differ. :-)
>>
>>Let them. I think both those guys have shitty tone.
>I don't care for Clapton's last decade or so, but Jeff Beck
>always seems to wrench out some kind of new sqeak that sounds so
>awful it's good. As for Lace sensors, they remind me of the first time I
>plugged my guitar directly into a tape deck. All hifi, no guts.
>In my opinion, the worst sounding pickup ever mass marketed.
I personally like Gold Laces much more than overwound, resonant-
sounding pickups. And more than most humbuckers, too.
Keep in mind that the matchup with the amp/speaker rig is very
important. I've heard Lace Golds shine where Van Zandt pickups
sounded nasal and harsh.
The downside of the Laces is that they *are* a less resonant, and
therefore more 'hifi' sounding pickup. This is often percieved as
'tinny' or thin, but keep in mind that many people think this of
*all* single-coils.
BUT...
They probably give a bit more of what Fender was looking for in the
use of single-coils to begin with. With the right amp and tone
settings, they will give a very nice extended acoustic quality.
Very effective if that's what's called for.
Also, to paraphrase Tim Tube's tag:
"Good notes played on bad pickups sound better than bad notes
played on good pickups." <g>
MGarvin
Magesh Pillai
Dude, you nailed it about Clapton! His tone has really gone done since
the '70s. I think that his tone with the Cream was PERFECT, and I would
do anything to get that. I think that what he did was to simple play his
Les Paul or '61 SG with a Wah pedal turned all the way up to maximize the
treble.
Listen to the song SWLABR. Can't you just hear the guitars very
close approscimation the the human voice? I mean you can even hear it
crack and stuff!
I am not as familiar with Jeff Beck as I am with Clapton, however,
I have everything that he did with the Yardbirds, and I alo have Truth. I
had Blow by Blow, and I wasn't too impressed with it ( I was just a kid).
I also LOVE Jimmy Pages' tone in his EARLY days with the Yaardbirds and
Zep. I thik that he used a Tele. Do you know anything else that he did?
BTW, I rally hate Clapton's suff after '69! Gimme Yardbirds.
Bluesbreakers, solo stuff with John Mayall, Howlin' Wolf, and Cream, and
also Blind Faith.
What stuff do you particularly like o fBeck that is very heavy?
Gil Ayan
In a previous article, ocea...@aol.com (OCEAN DIG) says:
>
>" although never better
>than in "Blow by Blow" playing his Les Paul IMHO, and he's always coming
>up with something new."
>
>Despite the pretty LP cover, Beck played a Strat on 'Blow by Blow"....a
>stock one, at that....
No my friend, having had a chance to personally talk to Beck about "Cause
We've ENded as Lovers" I can guarantee you, he used a Les Paul.
Gil
--
OCEAN DIG
"o my friend, having had a chance to personally talk to Beck about "Cause
We've ENded as Lovers" I can guarantee you, he used a Les Paul."
He may have used one on that song, but on "Freeway Jam" and others, he
used a Strat. (rather hard to do whammy bar techniques on a Les Paul)
He was interviewed when the LP came out, and talked about "Freeway Jam",
and the fact that his Strat was stock, with no alterations.
BTW...When I met Paul McCartney, he told me they used a Gretsch on
"Nowhere Man" too...but he was wrong....as George pointed out a week or so
later to us....it was two Strats. Sometimes the mind is a terrible thing
to waste...;)
OCEAN DIG.@aol.com
(T Hartman)
nicholas j morrison
In <4trpf3$i...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> jac...@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu (David
Jacoby) writes:
>
>
>>Tim, they guy wrote: Clapton and Beck "HAVE" bad tone. I am not sure
>>about Beck because he's always sounded good to me, although never
better
>>than in "Blow by Blow" playing his Les Paul IMHO, and he's always
coming
>Becks tone is fantastic,listen to'blow by blow'..."cause we've ended
as lovers"...of course that was an old les paul.I saw him live in 80
and he was just fu***n awesome.Buddy Guy just happened to be on Leno
last night and his tone was god awful but i've seen him at other times
without the signiture lace sensor deal and he was way better,his albums
are great,old and new have you heard 'Feels like rain' bonnie R and
buddy G tone city ...superb.Clapton well he is blandola but thats more
about the audience he is going for now his sound is all compressed and
equilized into a nice smooth 'Package' we are overexposed to things
digital these days no one in a studio situation wants to hear any
nuances that contribute to good tone,engineers are obsessed by 'noise'
hence the success of the lace sensor/emg syndrome,even live setups
these days are loosing the analogue in favour of the digital and hell
who wants to hear those microphonic fender single coils through their
half million dollar sound rig,screwing the sound up...hell i do!!!!
Nick Morrison, Seattle
Nick Schepis
trem...@aol.com (Tremolux) wrote:
>>>>Well, Clapton and Beck might beg to differ. :-)
>
>Let them. I think both those guys have shitty tone.
I don't care for Clapton's last decade or so, but Jeff Beck
always seems to wrench out some kind of new sqeak that sounds so
awful it's good. As for Lace sensors, they remind me of the first time I
plugged my guitar directly into a tape deck. All hifi, no guts.
In my opinion, the worst sounding pickup ever mass marketed.
NS
Carl Fiadino
>
>>>Let them. I think both those guys have shitty tone.
>
>>Derek and the Dominos? and Beckola ? and Disreali Gears ? and Truth? and
>>I guess I would strongly disagree. These to me anyhow are some monumental
>>examples of great, inovative guitar tones.
>
>about Beck because he's always sounded good to me, although never better
>than in "Blow by Blow" playing his Les Paul IMHO, and he's always coming
>up with something new. So even if I don't like his tone as much nowadays, I
>don't get turned off by it.
>
Didn't Beck use a Tele with humbuckers on Blow by Blow? Carl
Carl Fiadino
ocea...@aol.com (OCEAN DIG) wrote:
>" although never better
>than in "Blow by Blow" playing his Les Paul IMHO, and he's always coming
>up with something new."
>
>stock one, at that....
>(T Hartman)
A Tele with humbucker. Carl
Nick Schepis
mga...@panix.com (Mark Garvin) wrote:
>I personally like Gold Laces much more than overwound, resonant-
>sounding pickups. And more than most humbuckers, too.
I agree. An overwound single coil sort of deafeats the purpose of the
single coil sound. Humbckers definitely have their place (jazz, chunky
overdrive) but a good even-sounding trio of quality single coils will
yield a much more vast array of sounds and dynamics. Even with all the
split coil, in phase/out phase series parallel humbucking configs out
there. These guiars may offer 25 tonal combinations, but only about 2 or
three useful ones.
NS
Carl Fiadino
jac...@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu (David Jacoby) wrote:
>
>>Tim, they guy wrote: Clapton and Beck "HAVE" bad tone. I am not sure
>>don't get turned off by it.
>
That's no Les Paul on Blow by Blow. Carl
nicholas j morrison
In <Pine.SUN.3.92.96080...@Isis.MsState.Edu> Magesh
Wood the first album was pre Zeppelin,and the similaritys are obvious.
He did a patchy live album with Jan Hammer in the late seventies
and theres some great stuff on that.I think you can get the Jeff Beck
Group albums now as a two album in one deal pretty cheap,theres also a
great Python Lee Jackson session that features Becks heavier playing
particularly "in a broken dream".
Nick ,Seattle
nicholas j morrison
In <1996Aug2.2...@lafn.org> ai...@lafn.org (Gil Ayan) writes:
>
>
>In a previous article, ocea...@aol.com (OCEAN DIG) says:
>
>>
>>than in "Blow by Blow" playing his Les Paul IMHO, and he's always
coming
>>up with something new."
>>
Blow"....a
>>stock one, at that....
>
>
"Cause
>We've ENded as Lovers" I can guarantee you, he used a Les Paul.
>
>--
>
> It doesnt even sound like a strat,besides i read in a GP article at
the time that it was a Les Paul....
>
>
nicholas j morrison
>
>ai...@lafn.org (Gil Ayan) wrote:
>>
>>In a previous article, tim...@aol.com (TimTube) says:
>>
>>>>>>>Well, Clapton and Beck might beg to differ. :-)
>>
>>>>Let them. I think both those guys have shitty tone.
>>
>>>Let's see, that would be the Bluesbreaker album? and Rough and
Ready? and
>>>Derek and the Dominos? and Beckola ? and Disreali Gears ? and Truth?
and
>>>I guess I would strongly disagree. These to me anyhow are some
monumental
>>>examples of great, inovative guitar tones.
>>
>>Tim, they guy wrote: Clapton and Beck "HAVE" bad tone. I am not sure
>>about Beck because he's always sounded good to me, although never
better
>>than in "Blow by Blow" playing his Les Paul IMHO, and he's always
coming
>>up with something new. So even if I don't like his tone as much
nowadays, I
>>don't get turned off by it.
>>
>
>Didn't Beck use a Tele with humbuckers on Blow by Blow? Carl
>
> he did use one in the early eighties put together by Seymour Duncan
as a gift featuring those obscure JB seymours no one ever bought.
>as i remember it was a mid fiftees tele or esquire routed (gasp)
F Yang
In article <4tnnrd$u...@bcs3.bccom.com> Carl Fiadino <fia...@bccom.com> writes:
>From: Carl Fiadino <fia...@bccom.com>
>Subject: Re: Lace Sensors Pros and Cons? Evans?
>Date: 31 Jul 1996 13:42:05 GMT
I seem to recall a story where Stevie did have a prototype, and before a show
somewhere (on TV i think), he got one of the people in the studio to engrave
the "SRV" in the pickguard. This ring a bell for anyone, or am I off in my
own little world again here?
Frank Yang
University Of Waterloo
"I'm not an engineer but I play one on TV"
Blues_stringer
>
>Didn't Beck use a Tele with humbuckers on Blow by Blow? Carl
>
Absolutely not. Try a black Les Paul fretless wonder. You can check that
info with Seymour Duncan. He measured (i.e., number of windings,
resistance, pickup construction specifications as compared to other
Gibson pickups) Beck's pickups on the Les Paul to see why they sounded so
hot.
Beck does have a Tele, but it was absolutely stock. He liked Roy
Buchannan (who used a Tele). Perhaps that is why he wrote "Why we ended
as lovers" on Blow by Blow.
Anyway, Seymour can provide you all the specifics. He is definitely a
Beck authoritarian..he even tries to emulate Beck's style at the guitar
shows.
Blues_stringer
Adrien Antoniol
BTW
if you wanna know
mister jeff beck played a tele made for him by mr. seymour duncan
and yes, it is, featuring two humbuckers...
sorry
it's seymour duncan who says it, not me.
bye.
Eric Defferard
In article <4trpf3$i...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, jac...@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu
says...
>
>
>>Tim, they guy wrote: Clapton and Beck "HAVE" bad tone. I am not sure
>>about Beck because he's always sounded good to me, although never better
>>than in "Blow by Blow" playing his Les Paul IMHO, and he's always coming
>>up with something new. So even if I don't like his tone as much
nowadays, I
>>don't get turned off by it.
>
>>Yes, in the Bluesbreakers he sounded terrific;
Sorry, but I think some reality check necessary...
No strat here.
That's a Gretsch Country Gentleman, a '58 Les Paul (which reportedly got
stolen), and the red ES-335 (ah, the legend of the red gueetar) in first a
Vox AC-30, then a Marshall Bluesbreaker.
>> in Cream he had great moments;
Still no strat here.
Telecaster, red ES-335 and the psyched out SG in a marshall Bluesbreaker
then Marshall stacks with JTM 45 pushed up to 11.
At the time George Harrisson had his baby blue strat with rosewood neck
(Rubber Soul, 1966?, first appearance in "Nowhere Man"), Clapton was still
playing Gibsons.
Clapton didn't switch to strats until Blind Faith, encouraged by Steve
Winwood to get a sharper tone to stick out of the synths, circa 1969-70. I
think he stated before that he was so blown away by Hendrix's performance
that he would not touch a strat, leaving at as Hendrix's toy to avoid any
dreadful comparaison. (Quite as Pete Townsend.)
>> in Layla, although different, his sound was applealing to me.
That's the Blackie strat in fender twins and deluxe.
Be careful you listen to the right part on the song, as there are 2 other
6-strings, one being a Les Paul (Duane Allman's sliding solo), and the
other being another strat (Delaney's). There are something like 4 or 5
overdubbed guitar tracks on Layla, the intro being played by Delaney (who
by the way received as a gift from Clapton a P-90 loaded '55 Gold Top Les
Paul, (bastard!))
E.C. also occasionally used a reversed Firebird at that time.
Same recipe for 461 Ocean Boulevard.
>>In Lay Down Sally his playing is quite differet, and his sound is not
>>even close to what it used to be.
Well considering he used Blackie through a battery powered Pignose here,
which he also used for the rushed up "After Midnight" in C .... I still
kinda of like the honk he gets out of it.
Backless still saw Blackie and Music Man amps.
>> However, when he had that mid boost
>>added to the Strat things went totally out the window as far as I'm
>>concerned.
If I recall correctly, he didn't have any booster before Journeyman or
while using Blackie. The booster came with his signature model (1989 ?)
with lace sensors. I personally put the cause on the lace pickups. Like
someone said previously, they just don't sound right (too clean funky
sounding). I believe they've been eq'ed with the booster to close up on
original staggered pickups.
Really, when I look for the original references of a strat sound, I listen
to:
- Buddy Holly's jangling ('59)
- Shadows ('61-'63)
- George Harrisson ('65) (taxman, get back)
- Hendrix ('66-'69)
- Ritchie Blackmoore ('69-'72)
- Tommy Bolin ('70-'72)
- Mark Knopfler ('76-'82)
In the second part of the sixties, if it wasn't for Hendrix, the strat was
just that not popular and to be replaced by Jaguars and Jazzmasters.
In the seventies, the Les Paul totally eclipsed the Strat.
The mid-boost "power-drive" is quite typical of strat players in the 80's
(Jeff Healy, Jeff Beck).
>
>But Clapton, the last tone of his (and song of his) that really worked
>for me is "Wonderful Tonight." That tone and that bending in the chorus
>and that voice and that tempo really sing the "Caught in a loveless
>marriage blues" more than anything I've heard except for things from
>_Shoot Out The Lights_.
That's still Blackie in a cranked up twin.
E.C.'s awful tone is a slightly outdated topic, considering he put aside
his lace equipped strat since the release of the live "24 nights" ('91),
and now switched to soulful Gibsons we all drool about in "Cradle in Bed".
Comments and remarks welcome.
Ricket.
jke...@tsixroads.com
There was a post several weeks ago that referred to this guitar being
presented to him on the 'Tonight' show with some silver adhesive
'SRV' stickers put on it, but I can't verify this as the truth.
Carl Fiadino
Nick, Try to get your hands on Beck, Bogert + Appice "Live in Japan"
double C.D. Jeff playing in a heavy power trio let's it all
hang out. Carl
David Roach
: Be careful you listen to the right part on the song, as there are 2 other
: other being another strat (Delaney's). There are something like 4 or 5
: overdubbed guitar tracks on Layla, the intro being played by Delaney (who
: by the way received as a gift from Clapton a P-90 loaded '55 Gold Top Les
: Paul, (bastard!))
: >But Clapton, the last tone of his (and song of his) that really worked
: >for me is "Wonderful Tonight." That tone and that bending in the chorus
: >and that voice and that tempo really sing the "Caught in a loveless
: >marriage blues" more than anything I've heard except for things from
: >_Shoot Out The Lights_.
: That's still Blackie in a cranked up twin.
: E.C.'s awful tone is a slightly outdated topic, considering he put aside
: his lace equipped strat since the release of the live "24 nights" ('91),
: and now switched to soulful Gibsons we all drool about in "Cradle in Bed".
: Comments and remarks welcome.
: Ricket.
Speaking of *good* Clapton stuff, has anyone else checked out
the "Layla Sessions" boxed set? Three CD's of studio jamms
with Eric, Allmans, and Dickie Betts doing what comes natural.
I was never all that wild about E.C.'s pop releases but his
instrumentals can be quite fine entertainment, especially if
you are a guitarist (and even if you aren't). The soulfulness
of some of these old jam sessions transcends equipment and
"tone", IMO.
Dave R.
JB
Kevin James wrote:
>
> In article <4tkr6p$b...@btr0x1.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de>,
> btp...@newsserv.uni-bayreuth.de (M. Diewald) wrote:
>
> > JB <jbar...@us.oracle.com> writes:
> >
> > >Tremolux wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Pros: They're quiet. They have fairly high output level.
> > >>
> > >> Cons: They just don't sound "right", like a Strat should.
> > >>
> > Absolutely. I dont like em.
> > Get Duncan Alnicos and live with the hum :)
> >
> > >> I'm a blues-man.
> >
> > Me too!
> >
> > >I agree with the con. I've tried 'em, they sound OK but just don't have
> > >the same sound as regular old single coils. However, I think I now have
> > >the ultimate solution in my strat that provides hum canceling without
> > >losing tone. A long time friend/guitar tech has come up with a solution
> > >that can be added to a stock pickup configuration that almost completely
> > >eliminates they hum associated with single coils. They system, dubbed
> > >the Dummybucker, consists of a dummy coil and few small components, a 9V
> > >and an on/off switch.
> >
> > strat sound if you combine it with a TBX control to boost the highs..
> > DiMarzio probably sells a similar design single coil...
> >
> > >The system requires some body routing under the pickguard to install the
> > >dummy coil so if you're concerned about the current or future "vintage
> > >value" of your guitar, this may not be for you. However, if you're more
> > >interested in preserving tone, this is a great way to go. This is a low
> > >power circut so they 9v should last several hundred hours. The on/off
> > >switch isn't required but is cool just to contrast the differences.
> >
> > No body routing required with the SDs....
> >
>
> Just wanted to add Dimarzio HS-1, HS-2, and HS-3s, which I think sound
> much closer to that "real Strat" tone than the Lace Sensors. They are very
> quiet, and like the SDs fit into a Strat without any routing.
>
> Kevin
>
> .
Yup, they are quiet but like the lace sensors, I think you trade tone
for noise unless they've changed alot in the last several years. I would
think if they sounded like a straight strat single coil that more people
would be raving about them.
TimTube
In article <4u6a8b$d...@animal.intex.net>, Blues_stringer
<vrd...@pop.intex.net> writes:
>
> TRUTH And BECK-OLA
>"Pianist Nicky Hopkins, who sat in on Truth, joined the band for
>Beck-Ola, which was completed in four days. Jeff cut his parts with a
>Fender Stratocaster through two cranked up 100 watt Marshall amps."
I'm confused, who is being quoted here? If that was a Strat straight into
a Marshall, I would sure like to know the miking technique. It sure sounds
like the classic Les Paul sound to my ears. Now perhaps with a couple of
FuzzFaces in series....
Tim
A great amp can make a lousy guitar sound great.
A lousy amp will make a great guitar sound lousy.
Blues_stringer
Guitar Player, 1975, pgs 40-42
"I'm still using the same wattage output - 200 watts. Two Fender speaker
cabinets and two Marshall tops. I have the amp miked, though. I used to
use Sunn amps. The Marshall tops give you the right sort of gritty sound.
The Sunn is a bit too clean. The Fender speakers are a bit more reliable
than the Marshall speakers, but the Marshall top is better, I think. [On
the tour and the album, Beck used his 1954 Les Paul Standard - modified
with two humbuckings - and late model Stratocasters.]"
Guitar Player, 1980, pg 90
TRUTH And BECK-OLA
"Pianist Nicky Hopkins, who sat in on Truth, joined the band for
Beck-Ola, which was completed in four days. Jeff cut his parts with a
Fender Stratocaster through two cranked up 100 watt Marshall amps."
BLOW by BLOW to THERE and BACK
"Beck recorded the project wit a '54 Les Paul Standard and recen model
Stratocasters through Marshall tops and Fender speakers."
"...for Beck's next solo releace, 1980's There and Back...the guitarist
used a '50's vintage Strat throught the same Marshall setup he had with
(Rod) Stewart in the 60's.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Perhaps all were right.
Blues_stringer
James Robins
What a thread! I never knew that there were so many people
who were into Clapton at such depth. Cool.
But, I haven't heard mention of my favorite Clapton tone period,
circa 1975, when Blackie learned to talk on a live LP, one of
my all-time favorites, called "E.C. Was Here." It's a 45-min.
blues set ("Have You Ever Loved a Woman," "Driftin'," etc.)
post-Freddie King's death and pre-Muddy Waters' tour. Those
overwound Strat single-coils hum like crazy, but you can
really tell that Clapton most definitely had a substance
abused, deep down dirty delta blues machine that was playing
straight from the gut. It bordered on magic. George Terry
does his usual back-up par excellence. But, as you have
mentioned, and most correctly, Blackie and the Fenders stole
the show.
Teleologist
Blues_stringer wrote:
>
> Guitar Player, 1975, pgs 40-42
> "I'm still using the same wattage output - 200 watts. Two Fender speaker
> cabinets and two Marshall tops.
>
>
Interesting thread ---- When did Clapton start using Soldano's & did he ever
record with them?
I may be an exception, but I liked Clapton's tone on some of 24 Hours,
particularly Badge & the blues cuts at the beginning. In Badge I like the
'big fat bottom' sound he's getting in the Intro out of the Bridge/Neck
P/U's, yet he's still getting nice Straty ringing sounds out of the unwound
strings on the chord. On the 24 Hours video he's clearly using at least 1
Soldano.
I also read an interview with Albert Lee(Country Guitar magazine) where he
talked about recording & playing with Clapton - around the time Eric was
messing with C&W & Reggae - Albert said Eric was using Soldano heads with
Marshall bottoms, but with only 2 speakers(JBL's) in each bottom! I believe
it was stated that Eric learned this trick from Buddy Guy.
William R Rodrick
JB (jbar...@us.oracle.com) wrote:
: Yup, they are quiet but like the lace sensors, I think you trade tone
: think if they sounded like a straight strat single coil that more people
: would be raving about them.
Well, they (the Golds) do come awfully close, and can do a lot more besides,
especially with the addition of some kind of onboard electronics - the choices
are many. They certainly can make a Strat a lot more versatile and useable
within a wide range of musical styles.
"Tone", as used in guitar circles, seems to mean something like "the sound of
a vintage Les Paul, ES-335, Strat or Tele through a cranked Marshall or
cathode-biased Fender amp", rather than simply "good sound". Listen to Tuck
Andress and tell me if he doesn't have a beautiful sound to go along with
the beautiful notes he chooses, and yet he doesn't have anything resembling
the popular guitar magazine/newsgroup definition of "tone".
Bill
Bob Lynch
>>Beck does have a Tele, but it was absolutely stock. He liked Roy
>>Buchannan (who used a Tele). Perhaps that is why he wrote "Why we ended
>>as lovers" on Blow by Blow.
"Cause We've Ended As Lovers" was written by Stevie Wonder and dedicated to
Roy Buchanan, if I remeber correctly.
Carl Fiadino
From what I read the guitar was given to SRV before the Tonight Show,
but I have it on video and he's using #1. Carl
Carl Fiadino
tim...@aol.com (TimTube) wrote:
>In article <4u6a8b$d...@animal.intex.net>, Blues_stringer
><vrd...@pop.intex.net> writes:
>
>>
>>"Pianist Nicky Hopkins, who sat in on Truth, joined the band for
>>Beck-Ola, which was completed in four days. Jeff cut his parts with a
>>Fender Stratocaster through two cranked up 100 watt Marshall amps."
>
>a Marshall, I would sure like to know the miking technique. It sure sounds
>like the classic Les Paul sound to my ears. Now perhaps with a couple of
>FuzzFaces in series....
>
>Tim
>
>
in stone as fact! Carl
c.j. wilson
In <4u3jd1$9...@animal.intex.net> Blues_stringer <vrd...@pop.intex.net>
writes:
>Beck does have a Tele, but it was absolutely stock. He liked Roy
>Buchannan (who used a Tele). Perhaps that is why he wrote "Why we
ended
>as lovers" on Blow by Blow.
Also, Beck used the Les Paul on the Blow by Blow tour.
thu...@maple.circa.ufl.edu
In article <4trnlg$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ocea...@aol.com (OCEAN DIG) writes:
>" although never better
>than in "Blow by Blow" playing his Les Paul IMHO, and he's always coming
>up with something new."
>
>stock one, at that....
>(T Hartman)
WHO CARES WHAT HE PLAYED!!!, it was a fucking RAT pedal, thats what gave him
that sound!
lata
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Thunder _ _
Mesa Boogie Amps O O
Rocktron and Boss Effects <
Ibanez Guitars \__/
Peace in the middle east!
University of Florida Fave Bands: Dream Theater, Steve Vai, Pantera!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeff Vineburg
>>Despite the pretty LP cover, Beck played a Strat on 'Blow by Blow"....a
>>stock one, at that....
>WHO CARES WHAT HE PLAYED!!!, it was a fucking RAT pedal, thats what gave him
>that sound!
Did fucking Rat make that fucking pedal in fucking `75?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Vineburg je...@netaxs.com Nuclear Fish nuke...@netaxs.com
http://www.netaxs.com/~jeffv http://www.netaxs.com/~nukefish
lefty guitar info, musical humor song parodies, as heard on Stern show
JB
Unfortunately, this was misquoted. Although the original post was about
Lace Sensors this reply was in response to the sound of stacked single
coils. I'm not suggesting that good tone is limited to vintage gear but
that to my ears both the lace sensors and stacked single coils represent
compromises that I'm not willing to make. Your mileage may vary.
BTW, Tuck Andreas would probably sound amazing on any guitar but since
his music style is more in the jazz than blues/rock vain, which is
usually covered here, the gear he uses is hardly relevant. I don't know
the details of his set up but I'd be willing to bet it's just as classic
for what he plays as any strat/les paul/marshall/fender combination is
for blues/rock.
Doug Gregory
Eric Defferard (def...@eunet.ch) wrote:
: In article <4trpf3$i...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, jac...@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu
: Still no strat here.
:
Ricket, did you read that in the GP artical on Delaney? In next
months issue, they acknowledge that the goldtop is really a '68 reissue
(George Gruhn concurred with this opinion BTW)
"...reversed Firebird..." *that's* what I saw, not an explorer
or thunderbird (see last post!)
: In the second part of the sixties, if it wasn't for Hendrix, the strat was
: just that not popular and to be replaced by Jaguars and Jazzmasters.
It *was't* the top of the line instrument, was it?
: >But Clapton, the last tone of his (and song of his) that really worked
: >for me is "Wonderful Tonight." That tone and that bending in the chorus
: >and that voice and that tempo really sing the "Caught in a loveless
: >marriage blues" more than anything I've heard except for things from
: >_Shoot Out The Lights_.
: That's still Blackie in a cranked up twin.
: E.C.'s awful tone is a slightly outdated topic, considering he put aside
: his lace equipped strat since the release of the live "24 nights" ('91),
: and now switched to soulful Gibsons we all drool about in "Cradle in Bed".
: Comments and remarks welcome.
: Ricket.
I agree. His technique is matchless, but his tone (to this day
IMHO) bites big time.
___ _ _ _ ____ _
| . \ ___| | | ___| |___ ___ < -< _ _ _ _ _| |
| /<_-<\_. |/ /| _ |/ . \ >- >| '_>| |_| |/ . |
|_| /__/<__/'\__\|_| |_|\___//___/ |_| \____/\___|
--
Doug Gregory
I saw Cream here in Toronto about a year before they broke up.
Clapton was playing neither LP or SG, but another Gibson (Explorer?
Thunderbird? - not sure) I also saw Zep just after they changed names
from the New Yardbirds. Page played a Les Paul through the most amazing
collection of no-name amps I've ever seen. I dunno how they worked it,
but between Page and Jones, there was a semi-circle of about a dozen amps
behind the group. Far Out!
Adam Scher
> Just wanted to add Dimarzio HS-1, HS-2, and HS-3s, which I think sound
> much closer to that "real Strat" tone than the Lace Sensors. They are very
> quiet, and like the SDs fit into a Strat without any routing.
>
> Kevin
>
> .
>Yup, they are quiet but like the lace sensors, I think you trade tone
>for noise unless they've changed alot in the last several years. I would
>think if they sounded like a straight strat single coil that more people
>would be raving about them.
Just had a first listen to the HS 3 pu I must say that it sounded very very
good esp. in the neck pos. dead quiet and also buttery with good SRV like
chime and a Hendrix like bell tone. I think I will try them in my next Strat
that I am building. Right now in my other rigs I am using Fralin's, Rio
Grands & Dimarzio vintages. So I have what most people seem to think is
the best. As for why more people don't rave about the sound of the HS 3? I
don't know or care. Most people are sheep. They need someone else to tell
them what is good and don't trust there own ears. Give them a listen.
William R Rodrick
JB (jbar...@us.oracle.com) wrote:: > : Yup, they are quiet but like the lace sensors, I think you trade tone
^^^^
: > : for noise unless they've changed alot in the last several years. I would
: > : think if they sounded like a straight strat single coil that more people
: > : would be raving about them.
: > Well, they (the Golds) do come awfully close, and can do a lot more besides,
: > especially with the addition of some kind of onboard electronics - the choices
: > are many. They certainly can make a Strat a lot more versatile and useable
: > within a wide range of musical styles.
: >
: > "Tone", as used in guitar circles, seems to mean something like "the sound of
: > a vintage Les Paul, ES-335, Strat or Tele through a cranked Marshall or
: > cathode-biased Fender amp", rather than simply "good sound". Listen to Tuck
: > Andress and tell me if he doesn't have a beautiful sound to go along with
: > the beautiful notes he chooses, and yet he doesn't have anything resembling
: > the popular guitar magazine/newsgroup definition of "tone".
: >
: > Bill
: Unfortunately, this was misquoted. Although the original post was about
: Lace Sensors this reply was in response to the sound of stacked single
: coils.
Sorry for the misquote.
: I'm not suggesting that good tone is limited to vintage gear but
: that to my ears both the lace sensors and stacked single coils represent
: compromises that I'm not willing to make. Your mileage may vary.
Sorry if it seemed like I was suggesting this was *your* definition of
"tone"; I was just trying to define what I think people usually mean when
here when they say something has (good) "tone". Whatever it is, it's
evidently compromised when using Lace Sensors or, say, Kendrick speakers,
both of which a lot of people prefer, in the right guitar/amp.
: BTW, Tuck Andreas would probably sound amazing on any guitar but since
: his music style is more in the jazz than blues/rock vain, which is
: usually covered here, the gear he uses is hardly relevant.
That was sort of my point; I just wanted to make that explicit.
: I don't know
: the details of his set up but I'd be willing to bet it's just as classic
: for what he plays as any strat/les paul/marshall/fender combination is
: for blues/rock.
Well, not really - he uses a Bartolini pickup (in some kind of config-
uration) through an onboard preamp and more-or-less straight into the
board when recording, rather than the "classic" muffled neck humbucker
jazz tone. I was reminded of him simply because the sound of Lace Sensors
through an onboard preamp (not mid-boost) and no further processing can
achieve the same kind of "clarity" and "transparency" (they don't have to
be used that way, though).
Bill
Lee Reese
Adam Scher <sc...@nytimes.com> wrote in article
<320CC1...@nytimes.com>...
>
> Just had a first listen to the HS 3 pu I must say that it sounded very
very
> good esp. in the neck pos. dead quiet and also buttery with good SRV like
> chime and a Hendrix like bell tone. I think I will try them in my next
Strat
> that I am building. Right now in my other rigs I am using Fralin's, Rio
> Grands & Dimarzio vintages. So I have what most people seem to think is
> the best. As for why more people don't rave about the sound of the HS 3?
I
> don't know or care. Most people are sheep. They need someone else to
tell
> them what is good and don't trust there own ears. Give them a listen.
>
In my experience, the HS-3 is not that great. To me, they sound thin and
lifeless. I have tried it in at least 5 guitars and wired it in all
possible configurations. It was quiet, though. Nothing like a good single
coil.
My HS-3 is about 12 years old, so the design could have been updated, so I
could be wrong about about the sound of the newer ones. Maybe I might be
trying them through the wrong amps. Mesa Boogies, Marshalls and Fenders
might not be good enough for this pickup ;-)
Lee
Kevin James
In article <01bb87b0$b3898a70$fbe359cc@win1>, "Lee Reese"
<l...@gwinnett.com> wrote:
I was reading somewhere that Eric Johnson loves this pickup, but he uses
only one coil of it! He claims it's the closest to vintage that he's found
in a new pickup.
On my strat, I use the HS-3 in the neck, a regular Fender single coil in
the middle and a SD JB Jr. in the bridge.
For what it's worth,
Kevin
JB
Adam Scher wrote:
>
> > Just wanted to add Dimarzio HS-1, HS-2, and HS-3s, which I think sound
> > much closer to that "real Strat" tone than the Lace Sensors. They are very
> > quiet, and like the SDs fit into a Strat without any routing.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > .
>
> >think if they sounded like a straight strat single coil that more people
> >would be raving about them.
>
> good esp. in the neck pos. dead quiet and also buttery with good SRV like
> chime and a Hendrix like bell tone. I think I will try them in my next Strat
> that I am building. Right now in my other rigs I am using Fralin's, Rio
> Grands & Dimarzio vintages. So I have what most people seem to think is
> the best. As for why more people don't rave about the sound of the HS 3? I
> don't know or care. Most people are sheep. They need someone else to tell
> them what is good and don't trust there own ears. Give them a listen.
In forums such as this there are many people who have taken the time to analyze the sound of
different amps, guitars, pickups and pedals and provided useful information to other readers as a
result of their own analysis. I'm contrasting this to the "This sucks" or "This rules" nonsense.
Of course opinions vary, requirements vary, etc but what has emerged is a common vocabulary of
terms and widely agreed upon definitions of sounds or tones. High stereo gear and wine are 2
other areas where the same differences and rules apply.
For example, the sound of Hendrix playing a tune like "Little Wing" or some of his other quite
pieces is a great example of the "chimey" or "bell-like tone" of a strat in the in between 2 or 4
positions. I think most people who read this newsgroup would agree. This also often one of the
sound tests used to determine whether any single coil or variation there of sounds like a classic
fender single coil.
I'm not suggesting that HS 3 aren't good pickups - they may well be. My point was that if the HS
3 was able to maintain most of the desirable classic, single coil characteristics and have hum
canceling similar to a gibson style humbucker then there would likely be many people both in this
group and in the popular guitar-related press singing it's praises. My own experience and that of
those who have contributed here suggests that this isn't the case.
Yes some people are sheep but many have done the tests themselves and ended up with the same
independant conclusion. Since you do have example of other great pickups I's be curious to know
how they Rios's and Fralin's compare to the HS-3
Giri Iyengar
William R Rodrick wrote:
(At least I *think* William wrote it. Forgive me if I misquote)
> "Tone", as used in guitar circles, seems to mean something like "the sound of
> a vintage Les Paul, ES-335, Strat or Tele through a cranked Marshall or
> cathode-biased Fender amp", rather than simply "good sound".
A very good point, and one worth repeating over and over again.
You know, you might be surprised (or not) to hear that this attitude is probably
even more prevalent among jazz guitarists, or at least that segment of them
represented on rmmg.jazz. The muted neck pickup on a hollowbody into a Polytone
seems to be the definition of good jazz tone to a lot of people. Not everyone
there feels that way, but many do.
..Giri
Leebone
James Robins <jro...@intcomm.net> wrote:
I have that album. The guitar work on "Have You Ever Loved a Woman",
is to die for. One of the greatest Clapton performances ever.
--
Lee Syrjanen "Leebone"
"The blues, ain't nothin' but a good man feelin' bad."
Peter Bradt
I have to agree, Beck and Clapton have lousy tone. Pete Anderson (of
Dwight Yoakam's Babylonian Cowboys band) has *incredible* tone. He uses
SINGLE COILS, not those sterile, high tech (yet no tone) Lace Sensors.
They sound like EMGs to me. Yuck.
G.E. Smith's Tele has single coils...great tone. My Telecasters have
Fralin and Van Zandt pickups...*TONE.* I may be a shitty player but I get
great tone doing it. Lee Roy Parnell...single coils...*TONE.*
I love Buddy Guy but those Lace Sensors in his Strats sound crappy and the
boost circuit doesn't help either.
Arg...no wonder there's so much *bad* tone out there...pb
Leebone
def...@eunet.ch (Eric Defferard) wrote:
>Still no strat here.
>Comments and remarks welcome.
>Ricket.
>
He did "NOT" put aside his lace equipped strat! I was six rows in
front of him, during the "Cradle" tour, and he used a lace equipped
strat for not one, but many songs. He did also use Gibsons, and they
sounded great, but different. It's a true testiment to the artist,
that he can use different guitars, and sound so unique on each one.
Bad Tone????? His tone was beautiful!!! I'll take Clapton's tone
anyday. Especially over the scooped-mid death tone (yuck), that's so
popular these days. Give me warm soul, not buzz. (Crank those
f*cking mids.)
Leebone
chri...@microsoft.com (Not A Speck of Cereal.) wrote:
>ls...@ccia.com (Leebone) wrote:
>[]
>[] [... 130 unedited lines that leebone included to say this ... 130!! ...]
>[]
>[] I have that album. The guitar work on "Have You Ever Loved a Woman",
>[] is to die for. One of the greatest Clapton performances ever.
>Come on now, does anyone know how to edit posts anymore?!?
>I know, I know
> "I don't have time for it"
> "Well if I hafta go to that trouble, I just won't post!"
> "My time is more valuable--if you want to hear my words, scroll"
> "There's always the D key buddy"
>What ever your excuse, it's just selfish laziness -- it's not like
>it takes some learning curve -- just nuke whatever isn't immediately
>relavant to your reply.
>Please?
>Thanks... I feel better,
>Chris
It was purely an accident. I was tired when I posted. I didn't
realize how much I left in, until after I posted. I apologize!!!
I didn't mean to ruin your day.
I have one question however, couldn't you just give me a *kind*
reminder, without the flame? Of course that wouldn't be *cool*.
Flames seem to be the popular trend on the internet, I'm sorry to say.
Have a good day, and peace to you, and yours!
Not A Speck of Cereal.
ls...@ccia.com (Leebone) wrote:
[]
[] [... 130 unedited lines that leebone included to say this ... 130!! ...]
[]
[] is to die for. One of the greatest Clapton performances ever.
Come on now, does anyone know how to edit posts anymore?!?
I know, I know
"I don't have time for it"
"Well if I hafta go to that trouble, I just won't post!"
"My time is more valuable--if you want to hear my words, scroll"
"There's always the D key buddy"
What ever your excuse, it's just selfish laziness -- it's not like
it takes some learning curve -- just nuke whatever isn't immediately
relavant to your reply.
Please?
Thanks... I feel better,
Chris
----
"Great Tambourine overdub! Now where's that smokin' guitar solo
we recorded last night?" -- George Petersen
............................................................
chri...@microsoft.com -- Snohomish, WA. -- Studio Ponderous
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
Adam Scher
>Kevin wrote:
> > Just wanted to add Dimarzio HS-1, HS-2, and HS-3s, which I think sound
> > much closer to that "real Strat" tone than the Lace Sensors. They are very
> > quiet, and like the SDs fit into a Strat without any routing.
> >
> > > >
> > .
>
> >Yup, they are quiet but like the lace sensors, I think you trade tone
> >for noise unless they've changed alot in the last several years. I would
> >think if they sounded like a straight strat single coil that more people
> >would be raving about them.
>
>Adam wrote:
Just had a first listen to the HS 3 pu I must say that it sounded very very
> good esp. in the neck pos. dead quiet and also buttery with good SRV like
> chime and a Hendrix like bell tone. I think I will try them in my next Strat
> that I am building. Right now in my other rigs I am using Fralin's, Rio
> Grands & Dimarzio vintages. So I have what most people seem to think is
> the best. As for why more people don't rave about the sound of the HS 3? I
> don't know or care. Most people are sheep. They need someone else to tell
> them what is good and don't trust there own ears. Give them a listen.
>JB <jbar...@us.oracle.com> wrote:
>
>In forums such as this there are many people who have taken the time to analyze >the sound of
>different amps, guitars, pickups and pedals and provided useful information to >other readers as a
>result of their own analysis. I'm contrasting this to the "This sucks" or "This >r>ules" nonsense.
>Of course opinions vary, requirements vary, etc but what has emerged is a >common vocabulary of
>terms and widely agreed upon definitions of sounds or tones. High stereo gear >and wine are 2
>other areas where the same differences and rules apply.
>For example, the sound of Hendrix playing a tune like "Little Wing" or >some of >his other quite pieces is a great example of the "chimey" or >"bell-like tone" of a strat in the in >between 2 or 4 positions. I think most >people who read this newsgroup would agree. This also >often one of the
>sound tests used to determine whether any single coil or variation there >of sounds >like a classic
>fender single coil.
>I'm not suggesting that HS 3 aren't good pickups - they may well be. My >point >was that if the HS 3 was able to maintain most of the desirable >classic, single coil >characteristics and >have hum canceling similar to a >gibson style humbucker then >there would likely be many >people both in >this group and in the popular guitar->related press singing it's praises. My >own >experience and that of
>those who have contributed here suggests that this isn't the case.
>Yes some people are sheep but many have done the tests themselves and >ended >up with the same
>independant conclusion. Since you do have example of other great >pickups I's be >curious to know
>how they Rios's and Fralin's compare to the HS-3
Adam responds:
Actually JB I believe that many of Hendrix's mellower tones were achieved
by him using the NECK ONLY position hence why I coined it his bell like
tone Did they even have 5 way switches back then? I don't remember. They
definitely did not have reverse wound reverse polarity hum canceling
middle pickups. The 2 and 4 position to me is much more of a SRV like
tone and more chimney to my ears.
The HS-3 's to me have a great buttery like tone in the neck position and
great for distorted leads. I think Yngwie who helped design the pu proves
this with every solo he takes, I think he has awesome neck tone (as well as
pure tone i.e.. Strat into old Marshalls with maybe a tube
screamer)regardless of his large attitude.
I think what has generally been understood about stacked humbuckers,
mini side by side buckers and active pu's like the EMG's is that they sound
very unconvincing and un Strat like in the 2 and 4 positions, and thats
what really surprised me about the HS-3's they sounded great in the 2 and 4
with a clean tone, the guitar I demoed this on had a American Standard
RWRP pu in the middle but the way Fender wired it it was not hum
canceling, Both coils of the HS-3 stayed on in the 2 and 4 so there was hum.
I would wire it so 1 coil would drop out in the 2 and 4 And I suspect it
would be even better! As far as comparing my other pu's to it I had my
own trusty Strat right there at the store loaded with Rio Grandes, The Rio's
had slightly more output (mine are the vintage non staggered model) and
the sound very similar if I had to give a verdict on the spot I would give a
slight edge to the Rio's in the 1 and 5 pos (Although they are kind of noisy
in a high gain situation)and give the HS-3's the advantage in the 2 and 4.
The sound of the Rio's in general are like an enhanced sounding Strat were
as I would say the Fralin's sound very vintage nothing more but very sweet
sounding. The Fralin's I have only had for a short time so I am still getting
to know them a bit trying with different amp setups. As far as articles in GP
or the other Music magazines is their reviews can at best only act as a guide
not as gospel. Again trust your own ears and don't be a sheep.
Adam
Phuzzy
Actually I just picked up a second hand guitar. It's a Strat copy
called the Blade, by a small Swiss company called Levinson. I don't
know if you can buy their pickups directly, but this guitar sounds A LOT
like a vintage strat, it's dripping with tone. It also comes with a
preamp that gives you humbucker-like drive while retaining the tone. No
noise so far, but I play mainly at home, with a couple of gigs. I don't
know what it'll play like in the studio.
john des portes
I thought the Blade was a very good guitar and had some nice features
such as the boost capability as Phuzzy described. I also thought although
they were a Swiss company most of the guitars were Japanese made, at any
rate they were decent and I would have thought they would have found a
market niche.
Michael Cullen
Adam Scher <sc...@nytimes.com>, far, far away from here, appears to have
written:
>The 2 and 4 position to me is much more of a SRV like tone and more chimney to my ears.
>Adam
I only get this "chimney" tone when my amp bursts into flames... :-)
cheers,
Mic. (http://www.iap.net.au/~tiger/)
Cross Purposes Studios (Web & Graphic Design)
Jonathan Tonberg
> Actually JB I believe that many of Hendrix's mellower tones were achieved
> by him using the NECK ONLY position hence why I coined it his bell like
> tone Did they even have 5 way switches back then? I don't remember.
He and others used to jam the switch between positions on the 3 way
switch. Fender eventually clocked onto this and made the 5 way stock.
-jon
--
Jonathan Tonberg Jon.T...@ed.ac.uk
Artificial Intelligence Applications Institute
80 South Bridge, Edinburgh, EH1 1HN
Steve Milberger
Giri Iyengar wrote:
>
> You know, you might be surprised (or not) to hear that this attitude is probably
> even more prevalent among jazz guitarists, or at least that segment of them
> represented on rmmg.jazz. The muted neck pickup on a hollowbody into a Polytone
> seems to be the definition of good jazz tone to a lot of people. Not everyone
> there feels that way, but many do.
John Scofield and Mike Stern come to mind when I read this. Scofield used a
semi-holowbody Ibanez Artist into a Rat pedal that drove two Sundown amps.
Stern used (I think) a parts Tele into a Boss DS-1 driving a SS Yamaha amp.
Hardly the pinacle of great jazz tone, IMHO.
Steve
Jesse A. Sutton
I realize this is an extremely minor point, but regarding the
message in the discussion wherein whether or not sixties strats
had five way switches, I happen to know that while they didn't
have five way switches per se, the three way standard switches
were capable of being balanced between the neck and middle
positions, so both pickups were engaged. In my opinion, this
design quirk was the inspiration for the 5-way knife switch.
Ron R. Traweek
It's not just your opinion, the 5way switch came about from everyone
trying to get that sound Eric Clapton had when he 'stuck' his 3way
between pickups.
Ron
bearm...@gmail.com
Lord Valve
> Everybody has their own opinion does anyone know if powered.by lace is lace?
that's over TWENTY-ONE YEARS OLD, ya putz! Go back
to FarceBook and worship Hillary.
Lord Valve, ThD
Expert (fuck you)