'65 vs. '66 BF Deluxe Reverb?
Ericb
HI, can anyone tell me the difference between the '65 and '66 Deluxe Reverbs?
I'm interested in how they compare circuitwise, etc. as well as
sonically...Thinking about trading my 65 reissue toward one of these
within the next few weeks...The 66's seem to be had about 100.00 cheaper
in general, but I haven't heard one yet.. Each '65 I've heard has been
extremely nice, and I haven't found a clean or smooth overdrive sound I
like more yet. Also, since these go for between 700.00 and 900.00 would
anyone recommend a newer, similar sounding amp that you feel sounds
better, i.e. tone king, etc?..Thanks a lot for the info, ERIC
Teleologist
Ericb <er...@sover.net> wrote in article
<ericb-08029...@usr0a18.burl.sover.net>...
> HI, can anyone tell me the difference between the '65 and '66 Deluxe
Reverbs?
> I'm interested in how they compare circuitwise, etc. as well as
> sonically...Thinking about trading my 65 reissue toward one of these
> within the next few weeks...
>
The '66 has the Fender emblem on the front.
Pricing differences on BF Fenders vary by age due to the CBS / PRE-CBS bias
collectors have. They seem to have this strange idea that on the 1st day
after the purchase papers were signed, the quality, circuits. etc, went down
the toilet! As a result 64s & early 65s(built in 64) are worth more.
Once, out of curiosity, I A/B'd my '66 with a reissue - recorded both to ADAT
using the speakers/tubes/bias settings from mine in both amps. Extremely
difficult to tell them apart - so don't expect much difference unless you're
still using the stock speaker & tubes. BTW - the '66 thru the reissue's
speaker sounded like s___ too! Still - I'm not about to trade in my '66 on a
reissue!
Robert Fries
er...@sover.net (Ericb) wrote:
>HI, can anyone tell me the difference between the '65 and '66 Deluxe Reverbs?
>I'm interested in how they compare circuitwise, etc. as well as
>sonically...Thinking about trading my 65 reissue toward one of these
>within the next few weeks...The 66's seem to be had about 100.00 cheaper
>in general, but I haven't heard one yet.. Each '65 I've heard has been
>extremely nice, and I haven't found a clean or smooth overdrive sound I
>like more yet. Also, since these go for between 700.00 and 900.00 would
>anyone recommend a newer, similar sounding amp that you feel sounds
>better, i.e. tone king, etc?..Thanks a lot for the info, ERIC
They're identical circuits. Different ones may have different speakers, since
the speakers have often been replaced in amps this old. Different speakers
have a big effect on the sound. Even identical speakers can sound different,
depending on how thay've been treated all these years.
I suggest you buy the best sounding '65 or '66 you find, maybe paying a LITTLE
more for a '65, just 'cuz it's older. A '64 would be even more, all other
things being equal.
I've played the Tone King in a store, quietly. Sounded great, but it costs a
lot more than an excellent Blackface Deluxe Reverb. I have two Deluxe Reverbs,
a '67 and a '71 - love 'em both.
RF
*****************
Robert Fries
415-988-9475
rfr...@netcom.com
*****************
Nick Schepis
"Teleologist" <Teleo...@Sorry.NoEmail> wrote:
>The '66 has the Fender emblem on the front.
So do the 65's. Only the earliest Deluxes were mfgd without the logo.
I believe they came out in late '63 an if I remember correctly, by late
'64 they all had the logo.
>
>Pricing differences on BF Fenders vary by age due to the CBS / PRE-CBS bias
>collectors have. They seem to have this strange idea that on the 1st day
>after the purchase papers were signed, the quality, circuits. etc, went down
>the toilet! As a result 64s & early 65s(built in 64) are worth more.
Ther'es a little more to it than that. CBS bf amps were mfgd almost
three times as long as the FEIs. Therefore, the FEIs are quite a bit
more rare, and therefore demand higher prices. Personally. I don't know
anyone who arttributes the higher prices of the FEIs to a "better
quality" amp, though I'm sure there are some who do.
NS
Jeff Sutton
Hey,
I went into a guitar store the other day for a set of strings and walked
out with a ToneKing Imperial. It was a case of love at first sight, and
I was too overwhelmed to resist her charms . . .
It's a really cool amp in a DR kind of way; if you like the sound of
6V6's. you'll love the Tone King. The has two channels, one with
volume, tone and mid bite, the other with volume, treble, and bass
controls. Reverb and Tremolo are available on either channel.
The cathode biased Sovtek 6V6's puts out around 20 watts. The lead
channel has a variety of sounds that range from loud and hot to nasty
tweed to a very Marshall like grind. The rythym channel sounds very
much like a BF Deluxe, not real loud but great tone. Although small
amps are known for great lead tones, the TK is a great amp to play
ryhtym through. It's easy to set up a nice fat cushion of sound for the
other guys to play off of - - very nice.
The build quality of this amp is very high. It's a pc board design; all
tube sockets and pots mount to the chassis and are connected via flying
leads. The caabinet is pine, painted inside and out, and the 12" Tone
King "33" speaker mounts to a floating pine baffleboard. The amp is
covered in turquoise and white vinyl -- there are no overlapping seams
as the covering is sewn at the seams. The vinyl is not as durable as
tolex; I seem to find a new tear every time I take it out of the house,
which I do often.
All the groovy cosmetics aside, the amp only makes sense if it sounds
good. I a/b'd it against a reissue DR, and found it to be bigger
sounding in every way. In many respects, this amp is like a Jim Carey
impression of a Fender -- big, bold, brash and way over the top. It
just doesn't get much better.
I generally play blues in small to medium bars, so I don't need to be
super loud. I feel that 20 watts cranked up sounds a lot better than 40
watts turned down, just want to be able to keep up with the drummer.
The amp "feels" great to play, and it sounds good enough that I was able
to turn heads with the groovacious tone when I played out with it last
week. That was cool; I also got way more attention than I cared for
from other players. I had the amp set near the back of the stage, so it
was hard for folks to see it from the bar. It seemed like every time I
ripped into a solo, somebody would wander over to see what kind of amp I
was using. Once there, you could see the look of lust in their eyes,
and I'm not sure that is a good thing.
The list price of $1400 is pretty scary, but I had a couple of things to
trade against the amp to minimize the pain. The footswitch is an
optional extra, as is a cover. In this price range I believe that these
should be included with the amp.
If I had it to do again I'd probably look for the 40 watt Continental
combo, as it is equiped with a half power switch. Don't have any
regrets, though. If late 50's to early 60's Fenders do it for you, you
can't really go wrong with a Tone King!
Hope this helps . . .
- - jeff
Teleologist
Nick Schepis <stra...@onramp.net> wrote in article
<5dj7vg$m...@newsread.onramp.net>...
>>
> CBS bf amps were mfgd almost
> three times as long as the FEIs. Therefore, the FEIs are quite a bit
> more rare, and therefore demand higher prices. Personally. I don't know
> anyone who arttributes the higher prices of the FEIs to a "better
> quality" amp, though I'm sure there are some who do.
>
the difference in price is due to what collectors 'value' & musicians need
not pay the difference. Would you feel better had I said "collectors pay $200
for the letters 'Fender Electric Instruments' stenciled on the front" <g>
Interesting, that even the way you wrote it almost makes it sound like they
are two different amps - They were built in the same factory, by the same
people, using the same tools, techniques, and materials. Management was
unchanged as Fullerton & White, who actually ran the plant, didn't leave
'till later. Even Leo was kept on as a consultant in R&D. The engineers CBS
brought in(who for MG's benefit - didn't know squat about music!) were too
busy designing the famed SS amps to muck up the BFs. I don't think the bean
counters really 'invaded' until everything was 'reorganized' & moved into the
BIG building - they were probably busy counting office chairs or something
silly like that.
DRs were announced in Downbeat Sept '63 and came out in early '64. The 50
Years book & the Morrish book(reference section) both say '66 for factory
logos. The Fender 65-66 Catalog also shows one without logo. I've seen a few
65s with original Grill cloth & no logos as well(hardly scientific though).
I've also seen 64s & 65s where the owners added them on. But who knows - they
way the factory did things - they may have shipped with them 1 month and
without them the next!
If you are a collector - keep on collectin' - somebody's got to save this
stuff from the 'evil hacker-techs' for future generations! :-)
And now that I've P'd everyone off ......... I think I'll go play my Tele :-)
Lee MacMillan
Jeff Sutton wrote:
> The cabinet is pine, painted inside and out, and the 12" Tone
> King "33" speaker mounts to a floating pine baffleboard.
Can you explain "floating" in this context. Do you mean it's in a slot
and not screwed down tight? Thanks.
Nick Schepis
>Looks like I 'got to' a collector huh? Sorry, I was only pointing out that
>the difference in price is due to what collectors 'value' & musicians need
>not pay the difference. Would you feel better had I said "collectors pay $200
>for the letters 'Fender Electric Instruments' stenciled on the front" <g>
As it happens, pretty much everybody who wants one has to pay the extra,
since collectors will. Collectors value is present in all the bf amps
(those in decent shape), and contributes, in part, to the overall price.
>DRs were announced in Downbeat Sept '63 and came out in early '64. The 50
>Years book & the Morrish book(reference section) both say '66 for factory
>logos. The Fender 65-66 Catalog also shows one without logo. I've seen a few
>65s with original Grill cloth & no logos as well(hardly scientific though).
>I've also seen 64s & 65s where the owners added them on. But who knows - they
>way the factory did things - they may have shipped with them 1 month and
>without them the next!
Those boks are not gospel. Right now, I have a one-owner '65 Deluxe
w/logo as well as mint Princeton and aprinceton Reverb from '65 w/logos.
Never seen a '64 with one. I'm of the opinion that CBS decided early on
to put the logos on all the amps (except the Champs) for some kind of
visibility reason. Who knows...
NS
Claude Beaupré
Nick Schepis <stra...@onramp.net> a écrit dans l'article
<5dlpj6$9...@newsread.onramp.net>...
This missing logo story makes sense to me, since my '64 "Fender Electric"
Vibrolux Reverb is actually stripped down, waiting to be recovered, and I
see no mounting holes at all. More, the baffle's front has only a
rectangular frame along its edge, and no additional bracket under the top
left corner, where a logo should be. Also, never had cabinet corners, no
screw holes at all in the wood, only the 3-prong glides holes under.
Claude
Nick Schepis
"Claude Beaupré" <cbe...@quebectel.com> wrote:
>This missing logo story makes sense to me, since my '64 "Fender Electric"
>Vibrolux Reverb is actually stripped down, waiting to be recovered, and I
>see no mounting holes at all. More, the baffle's front has only a
>rectangular frame along its edge, and no additional bracket under the top
>left corner, where a logo should be. Also, never had cabinet corners, no
>screw holes at all in the wood, only the 3-prong glides holes under.
Interesting. So we can add the Vibrolux Reverb to the non-logo amp list?
What is the production number on the tube chart?
NS
Ericb
In article <01bc160d$54ef8320$ca02...@CCTT07.ISDEV.CTT.COM>,
"Teleologist" <Teleo...@Sorry.NoEmail> wrote:
> Ericb <er...@sover.net> wrote in article
> <ericb-08029...@usr0a18.burl.sover.net>...
> > HI, can anyone tell me the difference between the '65 and '66 Deluxe
> Reverbs?
> > I'm interested in how they compare circuitwise, etc. as well as
> > sonically...Thinking about trading my 65 reissue toward one of these
> > within the next few weeks...
> >
>
> The '66 has the Fender emblem on the front.
>
> Pricing differences on BF Fenders vary by age due to the CBS / PRE-CBS bias
> collectors have. They seem to have this strange idea that on the 1st day
> after the purchase papers were signed, the quality, circuits. etc, went down
> the toilet! As a result 64s & early 65s(built in 64) are worth more.
>
> Once, out of curiosity, I A/B'd my '66 with a reissue - recorded both to ADAT
> using the speakers/tubes/bias settings from mine in both amps. Extremely
> difficult to tell them apart - so don't expect much difference unless you're
> still using the stock speaker & tubes. BTW - the '66 thru the reissue's
> speaker sounded like s___ too! Still - I'm not about to trade in my '66 on a
> reissue!
Hey, thanks to everyone who's responded..BTW,I had NOS RCA 6v6's put in
the Del.Reissue soon after it blew up the fender chinese tubes and 2 sets
of sovteks..They've been perfect for over 6 months now..I finally tested
it through a few other types of speakers hanging around my house (in other
amps) and all sounded quite a bit better than the stock Fender/eminence..I
have an old Marshall/celestion Vintage (similar to v30???) that sounded
excellent..I'm going to try to get a mojo v30 or mp12r tested with it
before I trade it toward a real 65/66 though..Maybe that'll change my
mind..Thanks again for the responses! ERIC
Claude Beaupré
Nick Schepis <stra...@onramp.net> a écrit dans l'article
<5dnkot$l...@newsread.onramp.net>...
Latest date code on trannies, pots (CTS-Stackpole), and speakers (Oxford)
is week 37,1964, so I understand the amp can't be older than NI (Sept 64)..
Tube chart was gone (along with tolex and grill cloth) when I bought the
amp. Inside the chassis (under the choke), I can see (in rubber-stamped
ink);
"A.C."
"A.C."
"W5"
"A?164"
Right front panel has :
"Vibrolux"
"Reverb-Amp"
"FENDER ELECTRIC INSTRUMENT CO."
"DESIGN & CIRCUITS"
"PATENTED 62"
Center back panel has :
"FENDER ELECT. INSTR. CO."
"FULLERTON, CALIF."
"MADE IN U.S.A."
"UL APPROVED"
"63"
And to the right of back panel :
"CSA"
"A 00491"
Claude
tim...@aol.com
In article <5dlpj6$9...@newsread.onramp.net>, Nick Schepis
<stra...@onramp.net> writes:
>
>>DRs were announced in Downbeat Sept '63 and came out in early '64. The
50
>>Years book & the Morrish book(reference section) both say '66 for
factory
>>logos. The Fender 65-66 Catalog also shows one without logo. I've seen a
few
>>65s with original Grill cloth & no logos as well(hardly scientific
though).
>>I've also seen 64s & 65s where the owners added them on. But who knows -
>they
>>way the factory did things - they may have shipped with them 1 month and
>>without them the next!
>
>Those boks are not gospel. Right now, I have a one-owner '65 Deluxe
>w/logo as well as mint Princeton and aprinceton Reverb from '65 w/logos.
>Never seen a '64 with one. I'm of the opinion that CBS decided early on
>to put the logos on all the amps (except the Champs) for some kind of
>visibility reason. Who knows...
>
>NS
I have a FEI DR in the shop that is 2/65 by the tubechart stamp. It has no
logo, in fact there is no support on the baffle for a logo.
Tim
A great amp can make a lousy guitar sound great.
A lousy amp will make a great guitar sound lousy.
Nick Schepis
Nick Schepis <stra...@onramp.net> wrote:
>Those boks are not gospel. Right now, I have a one-owner '65 Deluxe
>w/logo as well as mint Princeton and aprinceton Reverb from '65 w/logos.
>Never seen a '64 with one. I'm of the opinion that CBS decided early on
>to put the logos on all the amps (except the Champs) for some kind of
>visibility reason. Who knows...
I'd like to recant that statement, as it was pointed out to me bu one who
has extensive experience in collecting data on these amps that the logos
on the small amps did not apear until late '65. Looking at my logo'd
'65s, they are all late 65.
NS
Teleologist
Claude Beaupré <cbe...@quebectel.com> wrote in article
<01bc1708$3d19a7c0$601c...@cbeaupr.quebectel.com>...
>
> This missing logo story makes sense to me, since my '64 "Fender Electric"
> Vibrolux Reverb is actually stripped down, waiting to be recovered, and I
> see no mounting holes at all. More, the baffle's front has only a
> rectangular frame along its edge, and no additional bracket under the top
> left corner, where a logo should be.
>
owners added the logo later. In these cases the logo is usually crooked or
unusually close to the corner - no other way to screw it on. I think '64
was the first year for the new style logo??? - maybe Fender couldn't get
enough of them made & that's why they left them off the smaller amps?
Regarding 65/66's the factory was usually a couple of months ahead of what
was at the dealers & early 65's may have actually been built in 64. Authors
of books, articles, etc., usually don't state if their information is based
on what the factory was doing at a particular time or what was actually for
sale at the dealers.
:-)