H. Alexander Dumble on the PRS Forum Gear Page - Censored Vol 3 of #
h_dumbell
Cutter,
If Howard did that it would ruin his mystique. A Dumble sighting (the
man) is like seeing a unicorn.
Dumble does make amps. As he chooses, when he chooses and for whatever
price he chooses. Not a bad gig.
Thanks,
Paul
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Posted by wichita on 06-13-2003 12:45 PM:
Wow,
This has been a very heated discussion.
I owned a Dumble once. I bought it used. I saw some of my friends
repair bills for their Dumbles and thought it would be better to sell
the amp and make a few bucks and continue playing regular old amps
that didn't have goo protecting the inards. I saw a repair bill once
for $1800.00 that belonged to a guy that I knew that had bought
several amps from Dumble. One amp had a little noise problem,
(probably filter caps) and it cost him $1800.00 to have the amp
repaired. I could not afford to take that chance. I am not judging
anyone for that.....I just personally could not afford to operate that
way.
I do have a friend who posts here often who paid for an amp and NEVER
recieved it. EVER. Not something that I heard from a friend of a
friend, but first hand.
I have only spoken to Alexander once myself. He called me because a
Swedish guy had brought by a Mystic Blues amp to my house and I had
told a friend of Alexanders about it. 5 minutes later the phone rang
and It was HAD on the phone asking questions about the Mystic Blues.
Seemed like a nice enough guy and since I was not on my dime I asked
him a few questions as well about panning for Gold (HAD's hobby), and
a few amp questions as well.
__________________
We are on a sinking ship, and we are all polishing the brass.
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Posted by Tag on 06-13-2003 01:51 PM:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by pfrischmann
Cutter,
A Dumble sighting is like seeing a unicorn.
Paul
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I have seen many unicorns.
__________________
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Posted by LordRiffenstein on 06-13-2003 02:04 PM:
quote:
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Originally posted by Ayan
Hardly, Ed. I mean something "nice and sweet," like this: someone
posts about having just purchased a used D-amp and wanting to have it
serviced. That someone is contacted by the manufacturer, who offers to
bring the amp up to specs. For those wishing to submit stories of this
nature, let's have them meet two criteria: (1) The manufacturer didn't
ask for an unreasonable amount of money for his services (call it...
$4K tops? $5K? I'm good with $5K) (2) The lucky fellow with the amp
was NOT a celebrity.
Make your submissions one at a time, please.
Gil
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Ok, here's my submission.
I bought a D-amp a while ago and I wasn't entirely happy with the
crunch so the manufacturer offered to tweak it so I would be happy. He
didn't asked an unreasonable amount of money and I'm definitely NOT a
celebrity. You can see some pics of it:
Pics
Cya,
Yoeri
__________________
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My Homepage with Diezel and Engl info and clips
Visit this other GREAT forum!!!
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Posted by Joe on 06-13-2003 02:15 PM:
First off, does anyone know for sure that he has trademarked DUMBLE?
To trademark something requires money, and Alex never got rich off of
his amplifier designs.
Another issue, you can make another product and call it Dumble and
still get a trademark for the term Dumble. There is the Cadillac dog
food as well as the auto line, both are legitimate trademarks.
So if someone wanted to push their luck, they could trademark Dumble
for a purpose other than amplifiers and then legitimately get the
name. Then they could use the name Dumble as the name of some mother
company that in turn has an amplifier line. It would then be up to
Alex to take this person to court and fight them, at which point the
abuser would show that Alex is in fact no longer in the market place
and as such his trademark should really be nullified at this point.
Alex could easily spend $25,000 in legal fees, a sum I doubt he has to
waste.
In the end, Alex gets away with bullying ebay sellers because ebay
aids him in his efforts, if it were up to Alex to fund each fight it
would be a different story completely.
Also, keyword spamming is a way of life on ebay, I see it everyday a
dozen times.
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Posted by Greggy on 06-14-2003 05:16 AM:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by b3l5tele
What has been offensive? Can you cite an instance, aside form what you
heard, or what someone told you, or what you read on the internet,
that was offensive conduct exhibited by Alexander Dumble. Have you met
Alexander Dumble? Do you know him? Can you back up this statement?
Just curious, because there is no shortage of people taking shots at
him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Point taken. I only know what I've heard, and it's all hearsay. No
direct contact myself with Mr. Dumble. I thus qualify my previous
statements with the following addendum: "if much of what I've heard
about Mr. Dumble is true...."
Greg
__________________
Greg
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Posted by cup on 06-14-2003 05:39 AM:
Joe's post above says it all. It's really the essence of why no one
will ever enjoy the knowledge, personal access, and innovative designs
Alex has to offer. It's a sick, angry, and unethical view of an
artists intellectual property. I've come to the conclusion that no
amount of reasonable discussion is going to change the minds of people
who feel they are owed something in this world. If they can't have
something they will destroy it. Depressing isn't it.
cup
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Posted by scottl on 06-14-2003 06:23 AM:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by cup
Joe's post above says it all. It's really the essence of why no one
will ever enjoy the knowledge, personal access, and innovative designs
Alex has to offer. It's a sick, angry, and unethical view of an
artists intellectual property. I've come to the conclusion that no
amount of reasonable discussion is going to change the minds of people
who feel they are owed something in this world. If they can't have
something they will destroy it. Depressing isn't it.
cup
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Cup,
I stayed out of this until now. I appreciate your loyalty to HAD. I
also personally have no dealings with him. I, however, know several
people who have been INSULTED and DENIGRATED by HAD. You my friend are
slightly misguided in your praise of the man. I really like his amps.
Hell, I even play a Fuchs. Like many have said, they would do business
with HAD if he were available. I understand that he is not available
though.
So, why is it a crime to use his name, in a positive way, on Ebay??
Comparing your gear to, what many consider to be one of the most
prized amps ever should be a compliment. Too bad HAD attacks and
insults those that are merely trying to sell a piece of gear. Do you
think it is appropriate for someone who asks HAD if he can buy an amp
to be told that you probably suck and don't deserve to play my amp??
Any defense for that juvenile response??
Considering HAD is not marketing his amps, how is he being hurt? Seems
to me he is a bully unless he personally knows you.
I'll close with a compliment to HAD, thanking him for his genius. I
really owe a great thanks since many of my fave recordings were made
with his gear. I wanted to say this so that you see I am not attacking
HAD, but merely pointing out that there is MUCH substance to these
stories. Much more than you may want to believe.
Respectfully,
Scott
__________________
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http://www.scottlernermusic.com/
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Posted by Ian Hurtt on 06-14-2003 06:38 AM:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by wichita
way.
I do have a friend who posts here often who paid for an amp and NEVER
recieved it. EVER. Not something that I heard from a friend of a
friend, but first hand.
[/B]
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Fascinating thread, but the above I snipped doesn't make sense to me.
If I bought something (especially something expensive) and didn't
receive it, the law would be getting involved. There is either more to
this story (refund, etc.)...
You cannot just take money from someone and not deliver product
without repercussions. I'm not saying the post is not true, but there
must be more to it.
Ian
__________________
Soon to be "Fuchen"....
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Posted by mattmccloskey on 06-14-2003 06:47 AM:
cup,
just out of curiousity, do you think it is unethical for someone to
just compare their amp to a dumble if it sounds that way? if so, would
you also apply that to someone comparing an amp to a blackface deluxe
for example?
I am all for balanced discussions, I just am not sure what you are
objecting to, specifically. It seems to me that someone describing an
amp as dumble-like is no different than someone saying an amp is
marshall-like, or that a player sounds alot like hendrix, etc.
Defending a friend against personal attacks is one thing but aside
from that what is your actual contention and the argument behind it?
just for the record I don't really care for dumble amps nor do I
desire to own one or a clone. This is just about consistency of
standards in what is ethical, and would honestly like to hear your
position.
__________________
Matt
"more coffee pleeze..."
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Posted by b3l5tele on 06-14-2003 06:50 AM:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by scottl
Cup,
I stayed out of this until now. I appreciate your loyalty to HAD. I
also personally have no dealings with him. I, however, know several
people who have been INSULTED and DENIGRATED by HAD. You my friend are
slightly misguided in your praise of the man. I really like his amps.
Hell, I even play a Fuchs. Like many have said, they would do business
with HAD if he were available. I understand that he is not available
though.
So, why is it a crime to use his name, in a positive way, on Ebay??
Comparing your gear to, what many consider to be one of the most
prized amps ever should be a compliment. Too bad HAD attacks and
insults those that are merely trying to sell a piece of gear. Do you
think it is appropriate for someone who asks HAD if he can buy an amp
to be told that you probably suck and don't deserve to play my amp??
Any defense for that juvenile response??
Considering HAD is not marketing his amps, how is he being hurt? Seems
to me he is a bully unless he personally knows you.
I'll close with a compliment to HAD, thanking him for his genius. I
really owe a great thanks since many of my fave recordings were made
with his gear. I wanted to say this so that you see I am not attacking
HAD, but merely pointing out that there is MUCH substance to these
stories. Much more than you may want to believe.
Respectfully,
Scott
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is another example of a guy taking a cheap shot at Alexander
Dumble. If you care to provide some specifics about how you acquired
this info those of us following this thread are all eyes and ears. And
please, I hope it's not, "well, my friend told me that..."
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Posted by CUTTER on 06-14-2003 08:07 AM:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Ian Hurtt
Fascinating thread, but the above I snipped doesn't make sense to me.
If I bought something (especially something expensive) and didn't
receive it, the law would be getting involved. There is either more to
this story (refund, etc.)...
You cannot just take money from someone and not deliver product
without repercussions. I'm not saying the post is not true, but there
must be more to it.
Ian
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this is kind of the whole point isn't it? if he DID do stuff like that
what would you expect to happen? people would be trashing him left and
right. this is not the first time I have heard the accusation but ti
is the first time I have heard the accusaton by someone I know and so
far trust.
so lance, did your friend get his money back after some
miscommunication with mr dumble? did he really receive the amp and
just sell it right away? do you trust him, could he be lying to you?
if the accusation is true, then I think all the criticism is valid.
__________________
I would give my life a thousand times for the nation of America. I
would give my life a thousand times for the people of America-- but I
wouldn't STUB MY TOE for the United States Government!
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Posted by scottl on 06-14-2003 08:13 AM:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by b3l5tele
This is another example of a guy taking a cheap shot at Alexander
Dumble. If you care to provide some specifics about how you acquired
this info those of us following this thread are all eyes and ears. And
please, I hope it's not, "well, my friend told me that..."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheap shot??
I called the man a genius and complemented his design. Did you miss
that part? I have nothing to gain from "taking a cheap shot" as you
call it. You took the shot. You imply that I am a liar who needs to
prove my sources! All I said was that I know people who were insulted
by HAD. I only posted because people like you and cup were blindly
defending and even attacking those who may have been wronged by HAD.
Like I said, I personally have no dealngs with him, however I have
first hand info. Not real damning stuff, but rather ludicrous behavior
none the less.
Personally I don't give a damn one way or another.
Case closed.
Scott
__________________
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http://www.scottlernermusic.com/
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Posted by tonedaddy on 06-14-2003 09:01 AM:
Regarding auction issues, here's some of my thoughts, YMMV:
Ebay is a public company that has developed policies for the use of
their services. A person may not like those policies, but it's Ebay's
sandbox, they built it. If you don't like them, you can build your own
auction site, but Ebay's decision to make a policy, break a policy,
ignore their own policies, or piss off their customers is their right.
Ebay has listing policies for sellers, including auction titiles:
"Giving your item a misleading title is not permitted on eBay.
Misleading titles are any titles that do not accurately describe the
item for sale."
See: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-titles.html
Another seller policy is for "keyboard spamming":
- the practice of including brand names or other inappropriate
"keywords" for the purpose of gaining attention or diverting users to
a listing.
- certain uses of brand names may also constitute trademark
infringement and could expose sellers to legal liability.
If you have an ad yanked for a misleading title or spamming, you
violated the Ebay policy. Guess who decides what's a policy violation?
Don't like it, see above. Want more info on what happened? Look here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/index_po...ms-vero-ov.html
Got "Fender", "Gibson", etc. cluttering up your Ebay title searches?
Blame the respective trademark owners for not policing them, not Ebay.
My guess is, Fender and Gibson figure they get a free ad every time
someone uses their name.
Ebay has a Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program to help owners of
trademarks, copyrights and intellectual property protect their
property from unlawful use. They allow program participants to have
About Me pages to provide information regarding the members' policies
and procedures concerning infringing items. Here's Paul Reed Smith's
VeRO About Me page: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mijnelluc/
Here's what Ebay can do to assist VeRO participants in defending their
rights: http://pages.ebay.com/help/index_po...ms-vero-ov.html
You may notice that Ebay offers this:
- voluntary daily monitoring and removal by eBay of listings offering
potentially counterfeit or otherwise infringing items;
- voluntary daily monitoring and removal by eBay of listings that
violate eBay policies designed to prevent the listing of infringing
items on eBay;
but Ebay also says this: "we need your help in identifying listings
which do not appear on their face to infringe your rights."
So it's clear that Ebay may try to assist owners, but is not obligated
by law or their own policy to do so.
In fact, the page points VeRO participants to this company, Ranger
Online, to assist them with monitoring Ebay auctions for
infringements: http://www.rangerinc.com/channel/vero/
So regarding auction issues, regardless of how I may feel about HAD,
PRS, or Ebay, it's not too relevant is it? These companies are free to
lawfully protect their rights, and Ebay is free to assist them. There
are thousands and thousands of companies in the same position as HAD
and PRS (Ranger has 5000+ VeRO participant clients alone). Each of
them is lawfully doing exactly what HAD and PRS are doing.
__________________
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"You can either do something or you can try to do something. Whenever
you're trying to do something, you ain't doin' nothing."
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Posted by wichita on 06-14-2003 02:01 PM:
Cutter
Apparently my friend paid a large deposit on an amp. Waited far longer
than he had been told he should wait. MUCH LONGER.
Was on tour in LA and actually stopped by to ask about his money or
his amp as the builder would not return his phone calls.
My friend was shown an amp on the bench and was told that the amp was
his and that it was nearly finished and would be shipped to him in a
matter of a week or two. Now this had been YEARS, not 18 months or
anything. Then there was no contact again for months and months.
NOTHING. My friend gave up on the whole thing. I do not think he
pressed charges, and I do believe that at some point he may have
recieved part of his money back by threatening, but not all of it, and
not even close to all of it. It took several years for the whole thing
to go down and during that time he was told lies. This is not a friend
of a friend of a friend, this is a guy that I know very well and
someone who posts here regularly.
I have very little personal experience with HAD. I do know other folks
that just love him who have had nothing but wonderful experiences with
him. I do know more than one though who has waited WAY longer than
expected, and have been put off a lot by HAD based on not being as
important as another client.
The repair bills are what scared me off. I had an OD Special and sold
it. Nice amp.....no nicer than Tags Emerald Pro as far as tone goes
though I promise you that. I owned both amps and I do believe that the
Two Rock was every bit as nice sounding. Contruction wise, I cannot
say as the Dumble was covered in goo.
The amp sounded great I will say that, and the paperwork was funny.
THe HAD paperwork about ordering rules and such is just a hoot.
__________________
We are on a sinking ship, and we are all polishing the brass.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by FlyingVBlues on 06-14-2003 02:38 PM:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Joe
First off, does anyone know for sure that he has trademarked DUMBLE?
To trademark something requires money, and Alex never got rich off of
his amplifier designs.
Another issue, you can make another product and call it Dumble and
still get a trademark for the term Dumble. There is the Cadillac dog
food as well as the auto line, both are legitimate trademarks.
So if someone wanted to push their luck, they could trademark Dumble
for a purpose other than amplifiers and then legitimately get the
name. Then they could use the name Dumble as the name of some mother
company that in turn has an amplifier line. It would then be up to
Alex to take this person to court and fight them, at which point the
abuser would show that Alex is in fact no longer in the market place
and as such his trademark should really be nullified at this point.
Alex could easily spend $25,000 in legal fees, a sum I doubt he has to
waste.
In the end, Alex gets away with bullying ebay sellers because ebay
aids him in his efforts, if it were up to Alex to fund each fight it
would be a different story completely.
Also, keyword spamming is a way of life on ebay, I see it everyday a
dozen times.
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From the United States Patent and Trademark Office.......
Word Mark DUMBLE
Goods and Services IC 015. US 002 021 036. G & S: MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
- NAMELY ELECTRIC GUITARS, AND COMPONENTS AND ACCESSORIES FOR GUITARS
AND THE LIKE - NAMELY NECKS, HEADS, BODIES, PICKUPS, PICKUP COVERS,
PICK GUARDS, AND CUSTOM FINISHES. FIRST USE: 19650000. FIRST USE IN
COMMERCE: 19670000
IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: ELECTRICAL APPARATUS FOR USE
WITH GUITARS AND OTHER SERVICES PURPOSES - NAMELY AMPLIFIERS,
LOUDSPEAKERS, AND COMPONENTS AND ACCESSORIES FOR SUCH ELECTRICAL
APPARATUS-NAMELY, AMPLIFIER CORDS, FOOT PEDAL CONTROLS, AMPLIFIER
COVERS, AMPLIFIER VOLUME AND TONE CONTROLS, AND SPEAKER CABINETS.
FIRST USE: 19650000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19690000
Mark Drawing Code (5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM
Serial Number 76366099
Filing Date February 4, 2002
Owner (APPLICANT) Dumble, Howard Alexander INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES
c/o 6242 Marmion Los Angeles CALIFORNIA 90042
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
__________________
Never play a note you don't believe in
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Posted by kirk95 on 06-14-2003 04:33 PM:
So I guess he does own the mark!
Isn't Dumble the guy that makes those really nice Two Rock and Fuchs
clones?
__________________
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Posted by Joe on 06-14-2003 04:50 PM:
quote:
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Filing Date February 4, 2002
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Must be up to something to register so late after the amps were made.
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Posted by Ayan on 06-14-2003 05:18 PM:
Not Sure He Could Trademark His Name... Read
quote:
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Originally posted by kirk95
So I guess he does own the mark!
Isn't Dumble the guy that makes those really nice Two Rock and Fuchs
clones?
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I am sort of confused... If you start here:
http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm
click on search trademarks, basic search, and enter the word "Dumble,"
and you will get two results. One is REGISTERED for someone who's
dead, the other one, serial number 76366099 shows no registration
number... Click on THAT Dumble and you will get what was posted here
by FlyingVBlues:
Goods and Services IC 015. US 002 021 036. G & S: MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
{snip}
and
IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: ELECTRICAL APPARATUS FOR USE
WITH GUITARS AND OTHER SERVICES PURPOSES
{snip}
But if you then click on the CHECK STATUS button at the top of that
page... you will get this:
(words only): DUMBLE
Current Status: An office action making FINAL a refusal to register
the mark has been mailed.
Date of Status: 2002-12-13
So maybe that explains why Dumbe didn't get a registration number...
maybe he couldn't trademark his name after all?
Is the a patent lawyer in here than can clarify this, pease?
Cheers,
Gil
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Posted by apalazzolo on 06-14-2003 06:38 PM:
yes gil ... and i have already spoken ... please reread my earlier
post ... thank you ... Tony
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Posted by Ayan on 06-14-2003 07:46 PM:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by apalazzolo
yes gil ... and i have already spoken ... please reread my earlier
post ... thank you ... Tony
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Tony, I don't see a post from you where you indicate that Dumble had
been denied trademark registration for his name/logo. Am I missing
something?
gil
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Posted by apalazzolo on 06-14-2003 08:59 PM:
whether or nor dumble has obtained a federal registration is not the
pivotal issue. my prior post assumed, for purposes of this discussion,
that dumble posseses trademark rights (possibly rooted in any of
federal, state or common law). indeed, if we assume the contrary, then
there never would have been anything to talk about.
my point was/is that those rights (like all rights) are limited. in
particular, they do not apply where there is no substantial likelihood
of confusing the relevant sector of the consuming public. naked
possibilities and/or solitary opinions alone are insufficient
establish trademark infringement. please refer to my prior post for a
representative list of acts/statements that illustrate the limits of
this principle. notice that these limits do not depend in the least on
whether or not mr. dumble is courteous, is a misunderstood genius,
ever made a mistake or told a lie, makes good amps, etc. therefore,
the vast majority of the resentment that i fear this thread has
generated has been for NOTHING.
i could blather on and on about the protection our concept of
intellectual property does and doesn't grant market participants. but
that it wouldn't make any of us better musicians, which is what i
thought this community brought to the table. so i'm going to get some
practice time in before my adult responsibilities make that
impossible. if you guys choose to continue this thread i hope you
somehow steer it in a direction that improves your playing!
*ony
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