Keith's Honky Tonk Women Tone..
MCAS NV
were played by Brian Jones. In fact it appears he may have written the main
riff.
He should be credited for the work he did, especially during the Beggar's
Banquet/Jumping Jack Flash/Honky Tonk Women sessions. Many people associated
with those sessions claim he wasn't nearly as 'out of it' as the 'Glimmer
Twins' have claimed. A noticable decline in the Stones' material occured after
he left....
Marc Ferguson
real trash. They really mixed the stuff quick. It doesn't sound like
they cared to change any of the mixes when they re-release it. Unlike
the hack jobs many producers have done. If Brian was out of it, where
was Keith? geez.....
Daniel Cooper
MCAS NV wrote in message <19981206141228...@ng03.aol.com>...
>There is now some evidence that some of those guitar licks on Honky Tonk
Women
>were played by Brian Jones. In fact it appears he may have written the
main
>riff.
>
What evidence? That's pure Keith Richards.
>He should be credited for the work he did, especially during the Beggar's
>Banquet/Jumping Jack Flash/Honky Tonk Women sessions. Many people
associated
>with those sessions claim he wasn't nearly as 'out of it' as the 'Glimmer
>Twins' have claimed. A noticable decline in the Stones' material occured
after
>he left....
Decline? You mean like 'Let It Bleed', 'Sticky Fingers' and 'Exile on Main
Street'? Well, it's a matter of opinion, I guess, but I share the belief
along with most other Stones' fans that this is their very best work.
Dan
MCAS NV
'Sister Morphine', 'Midight Rambler' and others. He wrote much of 'Jumping Jack
Flash','Ruby Tuesday', and the main riff for 'Paint it Black' After the
release of 'Beggars' Banquet', Melody Maker called it "a Brian Jones
tour-de-force"
Jones was far more of a musician than Keith, who is a very weak guitar player.
Many 'Stones associates have been afraid to defend Jones over the years ,
risking the ire of Jagger/Richards. But now some are talking, and the history
they tell is very different from what we have heard from 'the Glimmer Twins.
In fact, Mick Taylor said he quit because he wasn't credited with writing many
of the best songs on Exile and others, including some where Keith did not even
play (Memory Motel?) !! Sound familiar ??
Oh, Taylor also wrote 'Waiting On A Friend'
And, very few people think that their later material is even in the same league
as the '60s stuff..
Fleabitbeggarmonkey
Daniel Cooper
MCAS NV wrote in message <19981206161411...@ng-cb1.aol.com>...
>Jones was still around on Let It Bleed.
Yes, he's credited with percussion on "Midnight Rambler" and autoharp on
"You've Got the Silver". Nicky Hopkins' contribution is much more
substantial.
I wouldn't try to argue that Jones wasn't a great musician and I love the
Rolling Stones recordings that feature his playing. But why tear down the
accomplishments of Jagger/Richards? You still don't offer any sources for
your assertions, some of which sound like pure hooey. There certainly
hasn't been any shortage of Jagger/Richards detractors over the years among
their associates, so who are the scaredy cats exactly?
I don't feel the need to argue opinions, you've got yours, I've got mine.
As for the general consensus about their best work, I repeat, you're in the
minority: BB, LIB, SF, EOMS are regarded by most critics, if you will, and
by almost everyone that I've ever known as the cream of the crop. IMO,
"Goat's Head Soup" is more or less a death rattle in comparison and 'Waiting
On A Friend" doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath.
Dan
Patrick F. Coleman
>Jones was still around on Let It Bleed. He played on the first few takes of
>'Sister Morphine', 'Midight Rambler' and others. He wrote much of 'Jumping Jack
>Flash','Ruby Tuesday', and the main riff for 'Paint it Black' After the
>release of 'Beggars' Banquet', Melody Maker called it "a Brian Jones
>tour-de-force"
>Jones was far more of a musician than Keith, who is a very weak guitar player.
>Many 'Stones associates have been afraid to defend Jones over the years ,
>risking the ire of Jagger/Richards. But now some are talking, and the history
>they tell is very different from what we have heard from 'the Glimmer Twins.
>In fact, Mick Taylor said he quit because he wasn't credited with writing many
>of the best songs on Exile and others, including some where Keith did not even
>play (Memory Motel?) !! Sound familiar ??
>Oh, Taylor also wrote 'Waiting On A Friend'
>And, very few people think that their later material is even in the same league
>as the '60s stuff..
>Fleabitbeggarmonkey
I tend to agree with this. Both as to the downplay they gave brian..
and to his contribution all along.
After exile on mainstreet I never bothered with another stones album.
they had a great opportunity to be a really great rock band, and
turned into a popularly percieved really great rock band.
not that they give a shit.
oh yeah..... seems every time I turn around someone is shitting on
yoko..? well look at the fucking moron jagger has kids with..LOL.
Twang!
prairie lakes internet sucks
John Stanley
Patrick F. Coleman wrote in message <74f1se$k2m$5...@supernews.com>...
But does what's her name put out that weird screeching stuff and attempt to
pass it off as music? She made herself a target of criticism, ever hear
"Kiss Me Love" or whatever that was off of Lennon's Double Fantasy (I
think). That song too forces me to break all of my furniture.
Sisco.
when ya decide to upload the new pics...
Marc Ferguson wrote:
> MCAS NV wrote:
> >
> > There is now some evidence that some of those guitar licks on Honky Tonk Women
> > were played by Brian Jones. In fact it appears he may have written the main
> > riff.
> >
> > He should be credited for the work he did, especially during the Beggar's
> > Banquet/Jumping Jack Flash/Honky Tonk Women sessions. Many people associated
> > with those sessions claim he wasn't nearly as 'out of it' as the 'Glimmer
> > Twins' have claimed. A noticable decline in the Stones' material occured after
> > he left....
Michael Nelson
>In fact, Mick Taylor said he quit because he wasn't credited with writing many
>of the best songs on Exile and others, including some where Keith did not even
>play (Memory Motel?) !! Sound familiar ??
Heck, the best guitar playing I have ever heard from the Stones was Mick
Taylor's stuff on "Get Yer Yah-Yahs Out". Bar none.
Michael
--
"Life is not a dress rehearsal" -- unknown
Michael Nelson San Francisco, CA nel...@imat.com
Scott & Kathryn Colborn
player.
Excuse me, but what planet are you from?
The riffs that Keith Richards lays down (and has for almost 35 years)
defines rock `n roll. Period. If you're saying that a great guitar player
has to be a speed merchant, you're right, Keith is not one of these. But
I'll get tired real fast of a guy who plays a mechanical speed solo with
little or no feeling. I don't get tired of Keith's "very weak" guitar
playing. Man, go figure! Hey, do us a favor and stay away from the next
Stones concert so we can get tickets easier. You can save your money for
more heartless CD's with mechanical, soul-less playing with buzzy amps and
lots of hair spray.
Walk in Beauty, Peace. Scott
ark
wrote:
>MCAS NV wrote:
>>
>> There is now some evidence that some of those guitar licks on Honky Tonk Women
>> were played by Brian Jones. In fact it appears he may have written the main
>> riff.
Uh, I think Keith pretty much copped that type of stuff from Ry
Cooder. Ry's big on open tunings and they did some playing together
right around that time, I never heard Keith use G tuning until then...
Al
Jean-Michel Gras
MCAS NV wrote:
> Keith, who is a very weak guitar player.
John Stanley
ark wrote in message <366c93b0...@news.aa.net>...
Really? What else have Ry and the STones done? All I know of is "Memo From
Turner". Great slide on that one.
john
Skubanut
>john
Ry played slide on Beggars Banquet including "Sister Morphine". He taught Keith
much about playing in open G tuning , but was later angry at Keith for
"plagiarizing" his style.
Read "Keith Richards--The Biography", by Victor Bockris.
--Michael
Mike Rejsa
the rythum in the chorus, there are *very* few people in the world who
play like that. I do believe that was Ry Cooder influenced, tho.
Now the licks in the chorus entry - don't see how that could be keith,
doesn't sound like him at all.
Bill Wyman claims to have originated the Jumping jack Flash riff, by the
way, and if you think the Stones didn't care about mixing or production,
well just you try to duplicate JJF like I tried. It's a real bitch
getting that sound. I didn't succeed, I got close in some ways, but
there's a lot going in there. The acoustic guitar is vital to the rythum,
the lack of sustain on the high guitar is *hard* to do, the clarity
yet toughness of the main guitar is hard to dial in, don't forget the
maraccas during the solo! And harmonica, hammond, etc. at the end.
IMO JJF is the #1 greatest all time rock tune... still gives me chills
over 25 years later.
(BTW, my brother and I *were* able to perfectly duplicate the Stones
background singing on JJF - you would not believe how bad this sounds on
its own!)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
mi...@primenet.com http://www.primenet.com/~miker/
<This signature intentionally left blank>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Cooper
Skubanut wrote in message <19981207080638...@ng115.aol.com>...
>
>Ry played slide on Beggars Banquet including "Sister Morphine". He taught
Keith
>much about playing in open G tuning , but was later angry at Keith for
>"plagiarizing" his style.
>Read "Keith Richards--The Biography", by Victor Bockris.
>--Michael
Cooder didn't play slide on BB, that's Brian. Also, "Sister Morphine" in on
"Sticky Fingers". I've heard the "plagiarizing" story too. Pat on the back
for Keith putting that open tuning information to good, creative use.
>
>
MWS2468
and R&B. It's about a certain "feel" and driving the band with it. I'll flat
guarantee you no Yngwie could replicate it, much less create it.
--
X-No-Archive: yes
MWS2468
built tunes around his playing.
--
X-No-Archive: yes
Bjjp2
>Keith
>much about playing in open G tuning , but was later angry at Keith for
>"plagiarizing" his style.
Actually, I saw an interview with Cooder (excerpts posted in the Stones ng)
where he seemed to go far beyond allegations that they plagiarized his "style."
As I recall, he suggested that a lot of famous Stones riffs, including Honky
Tonk, come directly from him.
Brewergart
> I've heard the "plagiarizing" story too. Pat on the back
>for Keith putting that open tuning information to good, creative use.
I read an interview a couple of years ago with Mick Jagger, who says HE started
playing with the 5-string open tuning before Keith, who dug it and made it his
own. It makes sense that a mostly non-guitarist would use an open tuning to
help with his songwriting....
Tim Armstrong
Chief Zymurgist (Brewer) - Atlanta BeerGarten, Newport News, Virginia
ark
<v6chev...@goodnet.com> wrote:
>
>ark wrote in message <366c93b0...@news.aa.net>...
>>On Sun, 06 Dec 1998 19:35:27 GMT, Marc Ferguson <ferg...@home.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>MCAS NV wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There is now some evidence that some of those guitar licks on Honky Tonk
>Women
>>>> were played by Brian Jones. In fact it appears he may have written the
>main
>>>> riff.
>>
>>Uh, I think Keith pretty much copped that type of stuff from Ry
>>Cooder. Ry's big on open tunings and they did some playing together
>>right around that time, I never heard Keith use G tuning until then...
>>
>>Al
>
>
>Really? What else have Ry and the STones done? All I know of is "Memo From
>Turner". Great slide on that one.
>
Jamming With Edward...
Al
ark
<danc...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
>Skubanut wrote in message <19981207080638...@ng115.aol.com>...
>>
>>Ry played slide on Beggars Banquet including "Sister Morphine". He taught
>Keith
>>much about playing in open G tuning , but was later angry at Keith for
>>"plagiarizing" his style.
>>Read "Keith Richards--The Biography", by Victor Bockris.
>>--Michael
>
>Cooder didn't play slide on BB, that's Brian. Also, "Sister Morphine" in on
>"Sticky Fingers". I've heard the "plagiarizing" story too. Pat on the back
>for Keith putting that open tuning information to good, creative use.
Like nobody before Keith ever did that? Ry Cooder is no slouch, and G
tuning goes back about 100 years.
Al
Daniel Cooper
ark wrote in message <366d236b...@news.aa.net>...
>>Like nobody before Keith ever did that? Ry Cooder is no slouch, and G
>tuning goes back about 100 years.
>
>Al
Like did I ever say that? I was talking about a specific song.
Dan
JJman
Coleman) wrote:
snip
>After exile on mainstreet I never bothered with another stones album.
I can't believe you would draw the line at 1972 for the Stones.
Black and Blue, It's Only R&R, ....Some Girls, and beond !
I basically drew the line at Steel Wheels.
>they had a great opportunity to be a really great rock band, and
>turned into a popularly percieved really great rock band.
They are both. It amazes me how Mick's voice seems better each tour.
>not that they give a shit.
I don't know what that means.
>oh yeah..... seems every time I turn around someone is shitting on
>yoko..? well look at the fucking moron jagger has kids with..LOL.
If you mean Bionca (sp?) no comment. If you mean Gerry Hall she is a
BABE and you are gay.
Yoko should be ashamed for all she has done and said.
>
>
>Twang!
A real Twang man would go beond 1972 Stones.
JJman
Alan Thompson
rumors that Cooder wasn't exactly happy with Keith "adopting" the G tuning thing
after Ry played with them, but what the hell.....
A.T.
John Stanley wrote:
> ark wrote in message <366c93b0...@news.aa.net>...
> >On Sun, 06 Dec 1998 19:35:27 GMT, Marc Ferguson <ferg...@home.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>MCAS NV wrote:
> >>>
> >>> There is now some evidence that some of those guitar licks on Honky Tonk
> Women
> >>> were played by Brian Jones. In fact it appears he may have written the
> main
> >>> riff.
> >
> >Uh, I think Keith pretty much copped that type of stuff from Ry
> >Cooder. Ry's big on open tunings and they did some playing together
> >right around that time, I never heard Keith use G tuning until then...
> >
> >Al
>
> Really? What else have Ry and the STones done? All I know of is "Memo From
> Turner". Great slide on that one.
>
> john
Alan Thompson
early Stones and still do, but I think the Mick Taylor years were great. Also,
Taylor was an awesome guitarist with wonderful tone and vibrato.
A.T.
Daniel Cooper wrote:
> MCAS NV wrote in message <19981206141228...@ng03.aol.com>...
> >There is now some evidence that some of those guitar licks on Honky Tonk
> Women
> >were played by Brian Jones. In fact it appears he may have written the
> main
> >riff.
> >
>
> What evidence? That's pure Keith Richards.
>
> >He should be credited for the work he did, especially during the Beggar's
> >Banquet/Jumping Jack Flash/Honky Tonk Women sessions. Many people
> associated
> >with those sessions claim he wasn't nearly as 'out of it' as the 'Glimmer
> >Twins' have claimed. A noticable decline in the Stones' material occured
> after
> >he left....
>
Alan Thompson
greatest rock and roll song never played on the radio!
A.T.
Daniel Cooper wrote:
> MCAS NV wrote in message <19981206161411...@ng-cb1.aol.com>...
> >Jones was still around on Let It Bleed.
>
> Yes, he's credited with percussion on "Midnight Rambler" and autoharp on
> "You've Got the Silver". Nicky Hopkins' contribution is much more
> substantial.
>
> He played on the first few takes of
> >'Sister Morphine', 'Midight Rambler' and others. He wrote much of 'Jumping
> Jack
> >Flash', 'Ruby Tuesday', and the main riff for 'Paint it Black' After the
> >release of 'Beggars' Banquet', Melody Maker called it "a Brian Jones
> >tour-de-force"
> >Jones was far more of a musician than Keith, who is a very weak guitar
> player.
> >Many 'Stones associates have been afraid to defend Jones over the years ,
> >risking the ire of Jagger/Richards. But now some are talking, and the
> history
> >they tell is very different from what we have heard from 'the Glimmer
> Twins.
> >In fact, Mick Taylor said he quit because he wasn't credited with writing
> many
> >of the best songs on Exile and others, including some where Keith did not
> even
> >play (Memory Motel?) !! Sound familiar ??
> >
> >Oh, Taylor also wrote 'Waiting On A Friend'
> >And, very few people think that their later material is even in the same
> league
> >as the '60s stuff..
> >
> >Fleabitbeggarmonkey
>
Alan Thompson
way, if anyone hasn't seen it, go see the IMAX movie from that tour if
IMAX runs it again, the sound is great, and there's nothing like seeing
Keith 15 feet high, you can see every crease on his face better than you
ever wanted to! For amp guys, there's some great shots of the amp stack,
including a great shot from backstage as the Stones go out past the amps,
you can see the tubes glowing in the back of Keith's tweed amp. Another
great moment is where Jagger's up front working his ass off, Keith and
Ronnie are calmly jamming along next to each other, smoking and having a
conversation. While they're talking, they miss the cue for the chorus,
look at each other and crack up, and go back to work. Cool!
A.T.
Alan Thompson
back and listen to those early Stones songs, he nails the feel and tone of Berry
better than anyone I've ever heard.
A.T.
Alan Thompson
greatest rock single of all time, even the Stones themselves haven't been
able to do it the same since (they changed the riff to fit Keiths G tuning
live, it ain't the same). I too have tried to get my band to do the song
justice and it's a bitch. One thing guys do wrong is that the bass doesn't
play the riff, it just pedals on the root and throws in some fills (ironic in
that Wyman supposedly made up the riff and bitched for years about not
getting credit, however I think he stumbled on to it on the piano). Check
out the video of the Stones "Rock n' Roll Circus", the song is still fresh to
them and they're playing it closer to the record. Keith is playing the riff
in the second fret B chord position (regular tuning), Brian seems to be tuned
to A and playing the same riff by barring the B at the second fret. No high
guitar, though.
Glad to hear that someone else has felt similarly about one of the great
songs!
A.T.
Bjjp2
>greatest rock and roll song never played on the radio!
>
>
There are many, many great Stones songs that are never played on the
radio--e.g. off the top of my head, Hand of Fate, If You Can't Rock Me, Stray
Cat Blues, You Got The Silver, All Down The Line, Sway etc.
BDMcco
story to one member of a circle and when it goes all the way around and back to
the teller; it has changed completely. The guy asks about tone and it turns
into an argument about Yoko Ono - Great Stuff!!
Anyways I have an old 1992 Guitar Player K.R. interview where he talks about
tone. For recording he often uses a bunch of different little amps (champs,
silvertones, kays). I have a little kay practice amp with an 8" speaker, and
when turned all the way up(of course) makes a beautiful sound with P90's.
Anyways KR says he mixes and matches and doesn't use the same amp through a
whole song. So I say, get some cheapy practice amps and play around. Oh yeah,
in the same article Keith does credits Ry with showing him the open G, but
doesn't mention Yoko.
MWS2468
open G, but doesn't mention Yoko.
Yet another snub. Gross non-recognition.
--
X-No-Archive: yes
John Stanley
BDMcco wrote in message <19981209124753...@ng35.aol.com>...
>Man, you guys crack me up. Reminds me of that excercise where someone
tells a
>story to one member of a circle and when it goes all the way around and
back to
>the teller; it has changed completely. The guy asks about tone and it
turns
>into an argument about Yoko Ono - Great Stuff!!
>Anyways I have an old 1992 Guitar Player K.R. interview where he talks
about
>tone. For recording he often uses a bunch of different little amps
(champs,
>silvertones, kays). I have a little kay practice amp with an 8" speaker,
and
>when turned all the way up(of course) makes a beautiful sound with P90's.
>Anyways KR says he mixes and matches and doesn't use the same amp through a
yeah,
>in the same article Keith does credits Ry with showing him the open G, but
>doesn't mention Yoko.
Would you mention Yoko? Hell no, she taught Keith her 10 finger hammer-ons
and 3/8" drill bit as a slide.
>