Working Space
RDOC
your opinion that I value very highly. I keep changing back and forth
between a working space of Adobe RGB (1998) and sRGB IEC6 1996 and
would like to know in your opinion which one should I really be
using. Last nigh I attended a lecture and the lecturer said unless you
are a real way out photographer blending colors than stick with sRGB
and I have heard that many times before.
I am just a regular person that does photography for the fun of it,
shoot jpegs and yes take my work into ACR and than CS4 and do the
necessary adjustments. The lecturer stated that the home printers
convert your photos to sRGB before printing them so why not just use
that as your working space.
Just one little thing I want to be sure of, when I set the working
space in Photoshop I should set the same working space in my camera,
is that correct? Ok that is my questions and I want to thank you guys
for being so helpful it is really appreciated.
kee...@yahoo.com.invalid
>necessary adjustments. The lecturer stated that the home printers
>convert your photos to sRGB before printing them so why not just use
>that as your working space.
Just my $0.02, but anyone that says 'They, or them' as one of their facts I'd
say you need to take them with more than a grain of salt..
It's been called racial profiling, racist, discrimination...etc.. And what it
all boils down to is using an expansive generic to apply to a large group to
make their opinion seem like it has some credence. When in effect, if you did a
poll on THEY or THEM.. the majority might go the complete opposite.
...
My HP can do all sorts of things, use it's own profiles, use none, use the
profiles set by the programs. But the one I found that works the best for me,
is the DEFAULT profile set in PS, and the DEFAULT set in the printer. Which
don't necessarily agree.
Tell your lecturer to see what THEY think about that ?
FWIW: PS on my machine works with monitor color.
The HP works with disabled.
How it would work printing peacocks under a rainbow at sundown on the beach is
anybodies guess. But what I create myself it works fine with..
Johan W. Elzenga
> I know this is a subject that is very argumentative but let me get
> your opinion that I value very highly. I keep changing back and forth
> between a working space of Adobe RGB (1998) and sRGB IEC6 1996 and
> would like to know in your opinion which one should I really be
> using. Last nigh I attended a lecture and the lecturer said unless you
> are a real way out photographer blending colors than stick with sRGB
> and I have heard that many times before.
Even if you heard it a thousand times, it's still wrong. If you use an
online print service, sRGB is often what you need to send them. But even
then you could always use AdobeRGB as the color space of your master
images, and convert only the JPEG's you send to the printer to sRGB. If
you print at home, AdobeRGB is the better choice, but you do need to
read a little bit about printing with color management. Epson printer
drivers have a special AdobeRGB color space setting, though, so for
Epson printers AdobeRGB is defenitly recommended.
> I am just a regular person that does photography for the fun of it,
> shoot jpegs and yes take my work into ACR and than CS4 and do the
> necessary adjustments. The lecturer stated that the home printers
> convert your photos to sRGB before printing them so why not just use
> that as your working space.
This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Home printers do *not*
convert your photos to sRGB before printing! They convert the photos to
the printer color space (or you let Photoshop do that if you use color
management from Photoshop). Because that printer color space is much
lager than sRGB, it's not a good idea to use sRGB as your working space
if you own a modern inkjet printer. when you paid for the printer, you
paid to have a large color gamut, so don't kill that by using a too
small space to start with.
> Just one little thing I want to be sure of, when I set the working
> space in Photoshop I should set the same working space in my camera,
> is that correct? Ok that is my questions and I want to thank you guys
> for being so helpful it is really appreciated.
No, you don't have to do that. Photoshop will keep the color space of
the image the way it is, if you set this in the color preferences. If
you shoot in RAW, the color space setting of your camera is irrelevant
because the choice is made in CameraRAW.
--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com
RDOC
Johan ok I am following your advice and I presently have the Color
Settings, Work Spaces, RGB: Adobe RGB (1998) set in Photoshop CS4 and
I am using an Epson Stylus Photo R1900 and a Canon Pixma 4500 printers
which both are inkjets. My camera is a Nikon D80. I shoot a variety of
landscapes and pictures of people as a hobby. So my question is what
Color Mode should I use?
Ia sRGB for Portrait Shots
II AdobeRGB for photos that will be extensively processed or retouched
IIIa sRGB for nature or landscape shots
Default setting is Ia sRGB
Mike Russell
> I know this is a subject that is very argumentative but let me get
> your opinion that I value very highly. I keep changing back and forth
> between a working space of Adobe RGB (1998) and sRGB IEC6 1996 and
> would like to know in your opinion which one should I really be
> using. Last nigh I attended a lecture and the lecturer said unless you
> are a real way out photographer blending colors than stick with sRGB
> and I have heard that many times before.
More important than which one you use is to pick one, and stick with it.
There is very little, if any discernible difference between sRGB and Adobe
RGB. I recommend using sRGB simply because it is less confusing, and you
run the risk of eventually having one of your Adobe RGB images interpreted
as sRGB, resulting in someone else experiencing dimmed colors in your
images.
> I am just a regular person that does photography for the fun of it,
> shoot jpegs and yes take my work into ACR and than CS4 and do the
> necessary adjustments. The lecturer stated that the home printers
> convert your photos to sRGB before printing them so why not just use
> that as your working space.
I agree with the lecturer absolutely. Printers do generally have an sRGB
setting, or revert to sRGB when the color settings are reset. Ditto for
monitors.
> Just one little thing I want to be sure of, when I set the working
> space in Photoshop I should set the same working space in my camera,
> is that correct? Ok that is my questions and I want to thank you guys
> for being so helpful it is really appreciated.
Hope this helps - as is often the case, opinions differ, and there will
probably never be a real consensus. You will not go wrong, however,
sticking with sRGB.
Just to add to the confusion, there are other color spaces that people
swear by, notably ProPhoto RGB, which began life at Kodak as a very wide
gamut color space capable of representing any color that film was capable
of. And, yes, there are people who swear by this color space as the only
one worth using.
Until you run into a specific problem with a color situation that you
cannot reproduce, my advice is to stick with sRGB. As Baretta used to say,
in his better days, you can take that to the bank.
Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all of you.
--
Mike Russell - http://www.curvemeister.com
Evan
edit it with the largest colour space, and as long as my monitor is
calibrated as best as possible, I will let my printer handle the colour at
its best setting, just the same as the fact that I work at a higher
resolution than the final output size.
Johan W. Elzenga
> Johan ok I am following your advice and I presently have the Color
> Settings, Work Spaces, RGB: Adobe RGB (1998) set in Photoshop CS4 and
> I am using an Epson Stylus Photo R1900 and a Canon Pixma 4500 printers
> which both are inkjets. My camera is a Nikon D80. I shoot a variety of
> landscapes and pictures of people as a hobby. So my question is what
> Color Mode should I use?
>
> Ia sRGB for Portrait Shots
> II AdobeRGB for photos that will be extensively processed or retouched
> IIIa sRGB for nature or landscape shots
> Default setting is Ia sRGB
I would use AdobeRGB for all photos. Only if you want to place a photo
on the web or have it printed on line, you need to convert a copy to
sRGB (In Photoshop, choose 'Edit - Convert to profile'). As I said, the
Epson printer driver has a special setting for AdobeRGB. I'm not sure
about the Canon driver. The (better) alternative is to let Photoshop do
the color management anyway. Both printers support that out of the box
as long as you use manufacturers own papers. You do need to read a
little on color management, but it's not so complicated as you may
think. Just follow the 'Print Workflow 2' instructions on this site:
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps10_print/ps10_print_1.htm
It's a little dated (Photoshop CS3) but nothing really changed.
RDOC
Well as usual the answer are all great and I will put them to
immediate use so thanks to all for the help, it is really appreciated.
Paul Simon
I"ve been lurking here for a while, getting to know the company. I'm a long
time photographer, film and digital and found myself dissatisfied with the
color prints I was getting. This all leads into color management, which is
not simple. There is one book that one should at least attempt to read and
that is "Real World Color Management" by Bruce Fraser et all. If this book
doesn't confuse you, you are already an expert.
I read above various comments about color space and color profiles that
appear confused, if not confusing. Briefly, a color space defines the
limited colors that can be seen or reproduced by a particular system, i.e.,
camera, monitor, printer, scanner compared to the human eye. If the color
you want to see is not in the defined color space, then there is <no>
possibility of ever seeing it on a monitor or reproducing it on paper.
The <accuracy> of the color that is generated by a monitor, for example, is
determined by the (icc) color profile of the monitor. If you cannot
calibrate your monitor, at least try to use the icc profile supplied by the
monitor manufacturer unless there is a glaring issue ( have had this
problem.) sRGB is poor compromise developed years ago in the time of poor
quality; it is a least common denominator for displays and excludes many
colors. Compare it to the even more limited "color space" of safe HTML
colors. Using even an inexpensive monitor calibrator like the Huey will
bring you miles ahead.
How do you share these pictures? If you use the web, change the profile to
sRGB, the least common denominator. Use perceptual rendering or relative
colorimetric representation. This way you will not display a color to
someone else's monitor that they will see inappropriately. You have shrunk
the color space and have fewer colors than originally. Hope they also have
a calibrated monitor, using a correct icc profile.
Printing? A whole new can of worms. What color on the print corresponds to
what color on the monitor? First, printers and their papers/inks have their
own color space, that is, the range of colors that they can reproduce. But
first you have to generate a color profile, an icc profile, that attempts
in the best possible way to have colors on the monitor correspond to the
best representation on the print.
To go from the general to the specific, if one is using camera raw data,
there is no color space for the camera. One can be generated for a camera
but it is not for the faint of heart.
Now, one picks a color space to work in. Use the widest you can, like
ProPhoto. Your raw data is now presented on the monitor using the ProPhoto
color space with the monitor profile you have chosen, hopefully one you have
generated yourself. If you use sRGB, you will have thrown away all colors
outside of the sRGB color space but are in the standard IEC color space
representation.
Now save the image from camera raw to PSD, jpeg, tiff or whatever. What
color space will you use? sRGB for monitors, the least common denominator.
For printing, the widest gamut possible, ProPhoto.
To make a print, it's color space is determined by the printer, it's inks,
and the paper. Now you need a color profile <in that color space.>.If you
can calibrate the printer to match the colors printed with IEC color using
for example, a ColorMunki, all better. If not, use the printer
manufacturer's recommendations and the associated icc profile. If you use a
different manufacturer's inks or others' paper, you are on your own unless
they supply you with icc profiles for your printer, their ink and that
specific paper.
My hope here is not to generate heat but light. No flames. I have never
done this before but the itch got to me. I'm open to correction, criticism,
etc, but please no name calling.
Paul Simon
"Evan" <thee...@bigpond.comm> wrote in message
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