Salt Lake 2002 Olympics font type??
Mario Freese
Does anybody out there know what's the exactly name of the font-type
used in the current Salt Lake Olympics logo??
Thanks in advance
Mario
Bobby Henderson
news:6ba8fb8b.02021...@posting.google.com...
> G'Day all
>
> Does anybody out there know what's the exactly name of the font-type
> used in the current Salt Lake Olympics logo??
The logos I see all seem to have a Regular-Bold weight of Frutiger (or it
could be Linotype FrutigerNext actually). At first I thought it was Adobe
Myriad, but Myriad has characters with a more rounded top and bottom end.
Bobby Henderson
Synapse Syndrome
news:00B98.36771$Ma7.98...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Wow. Can you really recognise fonts like that? As you look around in
everyday life, do you say to yourself, "Hey, that looks like a bit of ITC
Mendoza Roman Book"?
As an architectural student, I find myself seeing a lot of influences and
styles in buildings that most people don't. Can you really recognise fonts,
just like that? There seem to be so many with only tiny differences.
Jason.
Giuseppe Carmine De Blasio
so you can *diagnose*. Many *symptoms* are very alike, but there are
*subtletities* that a trained eye can recognize, so you can *diagnose*
accuratly...
That goes to the sheperd that knows every sheep by name, too.
:-)
Pepe
Milano, Italy
"Synapse Syndrome" <paradr...@hotmail.comNOSPAM> ha scritto nel
messaggio news:_R3a8.44031$H37.5...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Howard
people that collect "Pen & Pencils, Marbles, Comic Books and Buttons." They
know every detail of their interest on a degree that would rival any
proclaimed professional. The area of Fonts and Topography are no different
and have a lenthy history.
Howard
Synapse Syndrome
variation.
J.
"Howard" <How...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5L5a8.149630$XZ1.5...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
Ame
example) it's easier.
-Amy
"Synapse Syndrome" <paradr...@hotmail.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:Cj6a8.35185$as2.5...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Trevor Dennis
>You'd be amazed at what people study with intensity. To name a few, there's
>people that collect "Pen & Pencils, Marbles
There's at least one poster to this
NG who has lost *his* marbles.
--
Trevor Dennis
Remove s-p-a-m to email
Stone
Yes, like human faces. But we still have a knack for picking our
friends out of a crowd.
In article <Cj6a8.35185$as2.5...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
Ame
news:3c6a...@news.alphalink.com.au...
> You are such a lot of tossers, just tell him the fucking font name for
> christs sake.
They did. Bobby did. Immediately even.
"Bobby Henderson" <bob...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:00B98.36771$Ma7.98...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
> "Mario Freese" <mario....@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:6ba8fb8b.02021...@posting.google.com...
> > G'Day all
> >
> > Does anybody out there know what's the exactly name of the font-type
> > used in the current Salt Lake Olympics logo??
>
> The logos I see all seem to have a Regular-Bold weight of Frutiger (or it
> could be Linotype FrutigerNext actually). At first I thought it was Adobe
> Myriad, but Myriad has characters with a more rounded top and bottom end.
>
> Bobby Henderson
>
>
Now shut it.
Bobby Henderson
> "Bobby Henderson" <bob...@swbell.net> wrote in message
> news:00B98.36771$Ma7.98...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
> | "Mario Freese" <mario....@t-online.de> wrote in message
> | news:6ba8fb8b.02021...@posting.google.com...
> | > G'Day all
> | >
> | > Does anybody out there know what's the exactly name of the font-type
> | > used in the current Salt Lake Olympics logo??
> |
> | The logos I see all seem to have a Regular-Bold weight of Frutiger (or
it
> | could be Linotype FrutigerNext actually). At first I thought it was
Adobe
> | Myriad, but Myriad has characters with a more rounded top and bottom
end.
> |
>
>
> Wow. Can you really recognise fonts like that? As you look around in
> everyday life, do you say to yourself, "Hey, that looks like a bit of ITC
> Mendoza Roman Book"?
Considering sign design is my primary job, one I have been doing for several
years, yes, I do recognize most fonts and know them immediately by name and
weight.
> As an architectural student, I find myself seeing a lot of influences and
> styles in buildings that most people don't. Can you really recognise
fonts,
> just like that? There seem to be so many with only tiny differences.
After so many years of using lots of different letter styles, it is usually
fairly easy to identify most fonts just by glancing at them. Another thing
that makes the job easier is most professional level work usually only
involves good quality type styles. Frutiger is one of the better sans serif
fonts one can use. It is not as "invisible" or 1970's looking as Helvetica.
It has some of the flair of Gill Sans, but without the funky/whimsical look.
Frutiger is a very clean corporate looking font that can be combined with
lots of other type styles.
Bobby Henderson
Bobby Henderson
news:3c6ae06d$0$36736$4bb1...@news.dwave.net...
> "morgan" <hellon...@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3c6a...@news.alphalink.com.au...
> > You are such a lot of tossers, just tell him the fucking font name for
> > christs sake.
>
> They did. Bobby did. Immediately even.
Maybe his news reader didn't pick up my early response. Still, there was no
need for him to toss in an expletive-infected post into this thread. This
discussion is certainly more interesting (at least to me) than most of the
ones going on in the ng currently.
At any rate, the font used in the 2002 Olympics logo is Frutiger (Frutiger45
Light, Bold to be exact; Frutiger 55 Roman is just a little to light in
stroke for an exact match).
Bobby Henderson
Hecate
07:16:40 +1100, you pixellated:
>You are such a lot of tossers, just tell him the fucking font name for
>christs sake.
Asshole, if you read the whole thread you'd see he's already been told
the font name.
Don't you just hate people who can't be bothered to engage their brain
before they open their mouth?
--
Hecate
hec...@newsguy.com
Giuseppe Carmine De Blasio
Pepe
Milano, Italy
PS: Bobby, I don't do design for a living, but one of my best friends was a
typographer, and he was *contagious*...LOL!
"Bobby Henderson" <arow...@mail.sirinet.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:u6lp6dg...@corp.supernews.com...
Bobby Henderson
news:a4f09i$1eqgpc$1...@ID-121762.news.dfncis.de...
> I simply LOVE Futura. My favorite is Futura Condensed Light...
I used to like Futura, but I got kind of tired of it after awhile. I've
seen a lot of bad use of it from time to time. Same thing goes for Antique
Olive. Antique Olive and others like Serpentine have been fonts I have
previously liked but then grew to kind of hate after seeing some amateurs
(some of those being competitors actually) really murder those fonts with
horrible letter spacing, hideous combinations with other incompatible fonts
(such as Serpentine, Helvetica Black and Brush Script in the same
design --yeech!) and just plain poor composition. That has given way to me
using typefaces that no CorelDRAW user can load from Disc #1 --with a lot of
those being various font packages I have collected from various Adobe
Pagemaker and Illustrator upgrades.
Bobby Henderson
Synapse Syndrome
I'll have a look at using these fonts. Are there any other fonts that you
rate highly? What are your other favourites?
What about serif fonts, for body text? I tend to use Garamond quite a lot.
What do you think of this?
Thanks
Jason.
Synapse Syndrome
just has to be the same as Helvetica.
J.
Mike C
morgan wrote:
>
> You are such a lot of tossers, just tell him the fucking font name for
> christs sake.
How much did he pay to get the info?
Nothing?
Well you get what you pay for.
":^) ®
--
Mike C.
* Logo Design
* DHTML & GIF Animation
* Custom Graphics for YOUR Site!
Stop by and see if my skills and talents are up to your standards.
Site at: http://www.artistmike.com
Email Mike at: mi...@catisle.net
Bobby Henderson
Garamond is decent, depending on the "flavor" of it you use. I'm kind of
partial to Adobe Garamond. I also like Galliard and Bembo for use in large
passages of text.
For serifed titling fonts I like ones like Palatino, Utopia, Perpetua,
Berthold's versions of Bodoni (too bad Adobe doesn't license many Berthold
fonts anymore) as well as such all-caps title fonts like Penumbra and
Trajan. I'm starting to get tired of Trajan since it is used on so many
movie titles.
At any rate, most jobs require a different look and a different feel. One
font that may be perfect for one job may not fit with another at all.
Bobby Henderson
Bobby Henderson
> Arial and Helvetica - they're the same aren't they?
No. Absolutely not. They are not the same. Many people think they are
identical and they do have a similar purpose. But when you examine Arial
closely, you will find distinct differences between it and Helvetica. Take
the lowercase "a" in Arial for example. The upper hook to the left is kind
of squared off. It is not drawn in a perfectly rounded curve the way the
lowercase "a" in Helvetica is. You'll notice other differences. Take a
look at the top of Arial's lowercase "t" versus that of Helvetica. See what
I mean.
Other fonts like Akzidenz Grotesk, Folio, News Gothic, Univers and even
Franklin Gothic can be confused for Helvetica. But they are not the same.
> What about Swiss. That
> just has to be the same as Helvetica.
If you are talking about Bitstream's Swiss721 family, yeah, that one is a
fairly faithful replica of Helvetica. You can certainly get away with using
that as a substitute for Helvetica much better than you could with Arial.
Bobby Henderson
Mr T
"Synapse Syndrome" <paradr...@hotmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:
Arial is the Microsoft knock-off of Helvetica, created in the late
20's-early 30's.
--
Kurt
RSD99
Arial is the Microsoft knock-off of Helvetica, created in the late
20's-early 30's.
Only partially correct ... see
"The Scourge of Arial"
[Helvetica versus Arial. Explodes the Microsoft myth that
"We gave you Arial ... so that's *all* you'll ever need!"]
http://www.ms-studio.com/articles.html
(1) Arial was not created by Microsoft, it was created by Monotype, apparently at either
Microsoft or Birmey's urging.
(2) Arial is not a knock-off of Helvetica, it is not even close to the same letterform and
only "metrically equivalent" to Helvetica.
(3) Arial was conceived and executed so that Micro$loth would not have to pay royalties or
licensing fees to Adobe/Linotype for Helvetica ... as part of the "Base 13" or "Base 35"
font set.
(4) Arial was not created in the late 20's-early 30's ... it was "created" in the late
1980s.
(5) Arial appears to be a loose adaptation of Monotype's venerable Grotesque series,
redrawn to match the proportions and weight of Helvetica (see ref/URL above).
(6) Etcetera ... etcetera ... etcetera.
- - - - -
"Mr T" <ab...@renaultcaravelle.com> wrote in message
news:abuse-D4CE59....@news-central.giganews.com...
Bobby Henderson
news:9IGa8.2921$t83.7...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
> Re: "...
> Arial is the Microsoft knock-off of Helvetica, created in the late
> 20's-early 30's.
> ..."
>
> Only partially correct ... see
> "The Scourge of Arial"
> [Helvetica versus Arial. Explodes the Microsoft myth that
> "We gave you Arial ... so that's *all* you'll ever need!"]
> http://www.ms-studio.com/articles.html
>
> (1) Arial was not created by Microsoft, it was created by Monotype,
apparently at either Microsoft or Birmey's urging.
Good response. Couldn't have said it better myself. But Helvetica? Arial?
Bah. I really like Berthold's Akzidenz Grotesk for such Helvetica related
needs. Cleaner more up to date looking face. Even Font Bureau's Interstate
is pretty good (it is a little spiffed up from the old FHWA Highway Gothic
series).
Bobby Henderson
Jane Krate Duda
Univers...
Maybe because I see those fonts a lot...
Jane
Mr T
"RSD99" <rsdwla...@gte.net> wrote:
> Re: "...
> Arial is the Microsoft knock-off of Helvetica, created in the late
> 20's-early 30's.
> ..."
> font set.
> (4) Arial was not created in the late 20's-early 30's ... it was "created" in
> the late
> 1980s.
What I meant was that Helvetica was created then. Arial came much later,
as you say
--
Kurt
Bobby Henderson
news:3C6BD578...@janeair.com...
> How could you possibly confuse Akzidenz Grotesque
> with Helvetica? And no way Univers...
I'm not "confusing" them with Helvetica. I merely commented about how many
people DO confuse those fonts. They are somewhat similar in style and
appearance. They can be used for similar purposes, just as you can use a
very heavy weight of Myriad for the same purposes as Frutiger95. The visual
differences between Akzidenz Grotesk and Helvetica are not night-and-day
different.
I see incorrect fonts getting used all the time over differences being
subtle. I've seen Univers used on some green overhead signs on interstate
highways, even though FHWA Series/Highway Gothic is the only font family
approved for use (ClearviewOne is used in some test cases).
Bobby Henderson
Synapse Syndrome
Can I jsut say that Comic Sans makes me feel ill...?
Bobby Henderson
>
> Can I jsut say that Comic Sans makes me feel ill...?
Yes you can. It is one of those standard system fonts that I like to delete
out of the True Type fonts folder. Yeech!
Bobby Henderson
David R L Porter
from "Bobby Henderson" <bob...@swbell.net> contains these words:
> Garamond is decent, depending on the "flavor" of it you use. I'm kind of
> partial to Adobe Garamond. I also like Galliard and Bembo for use in large
> passages of text.
Garamond is a lovely but in some ways odd font -- it was designed
originally without a bold, and it can be tricky to get a convincing
Garamond bold if you are using a traditional version of Garamond.
Adobe Garamond is lovely, though like the old Letraset version it
seems to have sacrificed some of the energy of the font (the kick,
for example, in the lower case 'g') in favour of roundedness (I
suppose the fine detail of the traditional Garamond was tricky to
lift off the Letraset sheet). The 'colour' of Adobe Garamond on the
page is very pleasing, I think.
However, I've found that Adobe Garamond on some printers won't
embolden well, so for good results you need the whole font family.
The superb thing about Garamond is that you can get an airy, spacious
effect with very little leading: that tiny loop in the 'e' and other
characteristics work very well in that respect. It's also very good
for poetry setting, as it has a delicacy and ornamental feel that
doesn't look casual.
Garamond is by far my favourite font: I put out a few books years ago
under the imprint 'Garamond Press', and got a lot of invoices and
stuff meant for a London publishing house called Garamond Publishing,
so at least two of us must have liked the font!
--
Best wishes,
David
david....@zetnet.co.uk
Visit us at www.porterfolio.com
Avalon
<david....@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>The superb thing about Garamond is that you can get an airy, spacious
>effect with very little leading: that tiny loop in the 'e' and other
>characteristics work very well in that respect. It's also very good
>for poetry setting, as it has a delicacy and ornamental feel that
>doesn't look casual.
>
Nothing beats Comic with bevel applied about 5 times.
Ame
Printed on mint green stock?
"Bobby Henderson" <arow...@mail.sirinet.net> wrote in message
news:u6ql9i4...@corp.supernews.com...
Bobby Henderson
> news:u6ql9i4...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Synapse Syndrome <paradr...@hotmail.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
> > news:bhcb8.74051$H37.9...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> > >
> > > Can I jsut say that Comic Sans makes me feel ill...?
> >
> > Yes you can. It is one of those standard system
> > fonts that I like to delete
> > out of the True Type fonts folder. Yeech!
"Ame" <yah...@likerightsure.com> wrote in message
news:3c6ff74a$0$79558$4bb1...@news.dwave.net...
> Does it make you feel even iller if it's used on an office flyer?
> Printed on mint green stock?
Jeez. I've actually seen that. Take your pick, flouroescent green or
orange paper. Comic Sans is often involved in most pieces of font murder.
Other examples of font murder include people setting Brush Script in all
caps. That's even worse than all those folks who set Old English in all
caps. And then you have to consider all the horrible distorsion cases where
either Arial or Helvetica is squeezed and stretched way out of proportion
and made to fit any particular space --all without looking for a condensed
or extended weight that would actually look somewhat professional.
I could probably write a entire book on what not to do with type.
Bobby Henderson
Jane Krate Duda
I didn't mean "you" personally, I meant "one." sorry for the syntactical
vagueness. I was teasing, a little bit. I agree that many of these typestyles
contain similar characteristics, though so do my mother and I and nobody
mistakes one of us for the other ;-)
J
Paul Asente
"Bobby Henderson" <bob...@swbell.net> wrote:
> I could probably write a entire book on what not to do with type.
Someone beat you to it. "Stop Stealing Sheep & Find Out How Type Works"
is an excellent and very entertaining introduction to typography.
-paul asente
to reply, make the return host the same as my last name
Paul Asente
"Bobby Henderson" <bob...@swbell.net> wrote:
> I could probably write a entire book on what not to do with type.
Someone beat you to it. "Stop Stealing Sheep & Find Out How Type Works"
Popsqualli
Does anyone know the font NBC uses on their version of the SLC Olympics
logo? I believe it has the peacock logo mixed with the olympic rings. The
font in question spells out Salt Lake 2002 over the icons. Don't bother
looking for it on NBC's site or at NBColympics.com. Unfortunately, it's not
at either. -ed
Hecate
21:19:32 -0600, you supposed:
If you read the thread you'd find the answer in the second or third
post.
--
Hecate
hec...@newsguy.com
Trevor Dennis
>I could probably write a entire book on what not to do with type.
It might be more useful to write (or recommend) a book on what *to* do
with type.
I came across the Dummies Guide to Desktop Publishing in the local
library a few years ago, which made quite an impression on me. It
obviously didn't go far enough though, coz I still like Comic Sans. :(
--
Trevor Dennis
Remove s-p-a-m to email
Bobby Henderson
news:u70sii3...@corp.supernews.com...
I can't recall the graphic to which you refer. However, I do know NBC uses
ITC Serif for their corporate logo identification.
Bobby Henderson
Popsqualli
Well, I've looked and looked on the web, but NBC seems to not want to use
the logo they're using all over the place on TV. The only thing I could
scrap up is here:
http://www.shopnbc.com//popups/closeup.asp?ProdPath=/media/products/N/N50327
_400.jpg&prodname=NBC%20Salt%20Lake%20City%20%20Screen%20T-Shirt It's the
logo on the back of a souvenir t-shirt. Not the best but hope it helps. -ed
Bobby Henderson
> Well, I've looked and looked on the web, but NBC seems to not want to use
> the logo they're using all over the place on TV. The only thing I could
> scrap up is here:
>
http://www.shopnbc.com//popups/closeup.asp?ProdPath=/media/products/N/N50327
_400.jpg&prodname=NBC%20Salt%20Lake%20City%20%20Screen%20T-Shirt
> It's the logo on the back of a souvenir t-shirt.
If you are talking about the type on the shirt that says "Salt Lake" and
"2002", it is set in ITC Binary Bold.
Bobby Henderson
Popsqualli
Wow! You are the font master! Thanks!
Erin O'Reilly
course I have taken.
"Bobby Henderson" <arow...@mail.sirinet.net> wrote in message
news:u6ql9i4...@corp.supernews.com...
Jane Krate Duda
children's programs ...eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeccccccccccccchhhhh!
Jane
Ken Ryland
the masses who benefit from the artist's work.
<<>>~<><<>><>>~<<><<>><>~<<>>
Ken Ryland, technical editor
<<>>~<><<>><>>~<<><<>><>~<<>>
"Erin O'Reilly" <ore...@erinoreilly.com> wrote in message
news:N6Dc8.7773$Ot2.507693@sccrnsc01...
Bobby Henderson
news:7Y6d8.281$c6...@bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com...
> Comic Sans has pedestrian eye appeal. It wasn't created for artists but
for
> the masses who benefit from the artist's work.
What's that supposed to mean? That the font is created for masses who have
no clue on good design sense?
Comic Sans is just a plain bad font. I wouldn't even use it for a letter
style mimicking the lettering made by children. I can't believe that it is
actually a standard font for Internet web page use.
Bobby Henderson
Bobby Henderson
news:v72a7uktalm43mvhd...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:52:02 -0600, "Ken Ryland"
> <ken_r...@raytheon.com> wrote:
>
> >Comic Sans has pedestrian eye appeal. It wasn't created for artists but
for
> >the masses who benefit from the artist's work.
>
> toon bubbles for which it works fin. Lighten up, computer graphics
> isn't all da Vinci or Picasso, actually most of it doesn't even come
> close (runs ducking flames:)).
Comic Sans is not a text based font. It is only for decorative/display
purposes. The font does not work well for lengthy passages of text or even
byline copy. One of the easiest ways to spot bad type useage is designers
using a display face for any kind of body copy. Comic Sans should only be
used in headlines, logos and other titling work.
If you want a font useful to do lettering in comic book word balloons, you
are much much better off using a typeface better suited for it. Adobe
TektonMM or Adobe GraphiteMM are both absolutely perfect for that use.
There are other fonts out there which also imitate neat hand printing.
Bobby Henderson
Ame
Ya know, believe it or not, designing good pieces is not all "art" - there's
a lot of science to it, too.
I'm with Bobby.
I'm just citing from Type and Typography here...
"Despite arguments that ugliness and poor design abound in every aspect of
our daily lives here and abroad, I believe contemporary graphic methods
which are evocative, visually intriguing, and functional without being
banal, are exerting influence on more and more people. This hopeful turn of
events is caused by many factors, including a lively public response to well
designed products, improved advertising, better sales promotion and graphics
in general. In my view, a slow but perceptible upgrading of mass taste is
evident.
Ben Rosen, 1963? rev. 1975
HA HA HA. And ha. Oh LORD if they could have seen it coming.... any
"upgrading of mass taste" was immediately halted by the invent of the laser
writer.
The masses you mention are becoming the heads of 'design' firms now. They
start their own companies because all they have to do is buy Adobe
Illustrator and pretty soon you've got Comic Sans on every business card in
town. And because these do-it-yourself designers pervade the market, the
"pedestrian eye" never even has a chance to see good design.
Don't get me wrong, some do-it-yourself designers have an innate sense of go
od design. Better than some formally educated designers.
But some, SORRY, do not.
Most cars get you where you want to go but some are a lot more comfortable
than others. And faster, and nicer looking, and have better mileage.
Amy
Broadway bold on Re-entry Red is an extra .09 each, okay?
>
Bobby Henderson
> The masses you mention are becoming the heads of 'design' firms now. They
> start their own companies because all they have to do is buy Adobe
> Illustrator and pretty soon you've got Comic Sans on every business card
in
> town. And because these do-it-yourself designers pervade the market, the
> "pedestrian eye" never even has a chance to see good design.
The very unfortunate thing is these amateurs get into the business to
undercut true professionals and steal jobs on the cheap. Most customers
don't know any better, so if the amateur can talk a good line of bullcrap
and insist his cruddy design is what the customer needs (or that a good
design would cost way too much) then the customer just bites into it, hook
line and sinker.
> Don't get me wrong, some do-it-yourself designers have an innate sense of
go
> od design. Better than some formally educated designers.
> But some, SORRY, do not.
I would say 90% percent do not. I have met a few artists and graphic
designers with no formal education who did have some formidable talent.
However, they are very rare to find. And those types usually wind up
enlisting in some classes of some type to improve their skills. Those are
the 10% (and I think I am being very generous with that number). The other
90% are typically those who list their skills only by typing down any
programs they have ever used on a résumé and simply leave it at that. They
probably never heard of developing a good portfolio, tearsheets and other
promotional materials more indicative of a working professional.
Bobby Henderson
Dan
>>>The very unfortunate thing is these amateurs get into the business to
undercut true professionals and steal jobs on the cheap.<<<
Actually, they get into business to make money.
>>>Most customers don't know any better,<<<
Many customers don't NEED any better. If you are working with clients who
can't tell the difference between crap and quality work, then you need to
find clients who can.
>>>They probably never heard of developing a good portfolio, tearsheets and
other promotional materials more indicative of a working professional.<<<
Many clients are delighted to work with hacks. Fortunately, there are enough
hacks to serve their needs. Don't worry about it. Work with the good ones.
Dan
http://www.FreelanceWorkshops.com
"Bobby Henderson" <arow...@mail.sirinet.net> wrote in message
news:u7aqrmn...@corp.supernews.com...
Bobby Henderson
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:41:57 -0600, "Bobby Henderson"
> <arow...@mail.sirinet.net> wrote:
>
> >If you want a font useful to do lettering in comic book word balloons,
you
> >are much much better off using a typeface better suited for it. Adobe
> >TektonMM or Adobe GraphiteMM are both absolutely perfect for that use.
> >There are other fonts out there which also imitate neat hand printing.
>
> That's my story and I'm sticking to it. There are no absolutes,
> particularly in art.
There are rules in regard to function of type. Comic Sans does not read
well for body copy. That's just a fact, not a subjective statement. You
might as well set a paragraph of body copy in Futura Extra Black or Trajan.
It's still your prerogative to break the rules, but you have to bear in mind
some rules can be broken better than others. And some rules are very
impossible to break.
The main problem with Comic Sans is its plain ugly appearance, no matter how
it is used.
Bobby Henderson
Bobby Henderson
news:ixed8.17783$BR3.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Bobby Henderson wrote:
>
> >>>The very unfortunate thing is these amateurs get into the business to
> undercut true professionals and steal jobs on the cheap.<<<
>
> Actually, they get into business to make money.
Yeah, and that's their ONLY goal. They don't do it over enjoying the work
or taking pride in a design. It's only about the bucks. And for those who
are just in it for the money, their quality of work usually suffers for it.
I have strong advice for anyone looking at getting into the graphics
business to make money. Don't. You're not going to get rich in this
business. Those who are only interested in making money need to take a job
in sales, investment banking or real estate --areas where you can worship
the Bitch Goddess to full effect.
> >>>Most customers don't know any better,<<<
>
> Many customers don't NEED any better. If you are working with clients who
> can't tell the difference between crap and quality work, then you need to
> find clients who can.
The trouble is most clients don't know the difference, at least in specific
terms. The vast majority of customers can say, "I don't like that design,"
but extremely few can actually take apart the design and say why it doesn't
work and suggest changes to make it work. The amateur "only in it for a
fast buck" designer will just try to browbeat the customer over the head
with his pedestrian knowledge of why his design is good in hopes the
customer will just give up and give him the go-ahead to produce the work.
> >>>They probably never heard of developing a good portfolio, tearsheets
and
> other promotional materials more indicative of a working professional.<<<
>
> Many clients are delighted to work with hacks. Fortunately, there are
enough
> hacks to serve their needs. Don't worry about it. Work with the good ones.
That's normally what we do. For people more insisting on quality and
professional appearance, a talented designer is going to get the work even
if his price is higher than the hack designer trying to underbid him for the
job. But occaisionally you do lose a good client to some fly by night guy
who insists he can save the client a lot of bucks. And that's the real
pisser about it. I certainly don't mind it all when the amateurs "take
away" the pain in the ass type of customers who want 50 sketch revisions for
nothing and then don't want to pay the price on the contract.
Bobby Henderson
cpg
>
>Yeah, and that's their ONLY goal. They don't do it over enjoying the work
>or taking pride in a design. It's only about the bucks. And for those who
>are just in it for the money, their quality of work usually suffers for it.
You started out ok but now you're just talking out your butt.
If your own success and happiness in business is contingent on what
90% of untrained designers are doing, then you are in for a long and
difficult life.
cpg
Bobby Henderson
news:3c7651a7...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
> >> Actually, they get into business to make money.
> >
> >Yeah, and that's their ONLY goal. They don't do it over enjoying the
work
> >or taking pride in a design. It's only about the bucks. And for those
who
> >are just in it for the money, their quality of work usually suffers for
it.
>
> You started out ok but now you're just talking out your butt.
I don't think so. People who just want to cash a paycheck are going to take
all kinds of shortcuts and just get things done as quick as possible without
regard to actually working the design problem.
For example, take the outdoor sign industry market in Oklahoma City. Much
of what gets done there is primarily by companies working against each other
on underbidding contests. It is to the point where they have little money
to hire anyone with considerable talent, so commissioned sales people and
not artists wind up doing the design work. And the results show that. One
large company in that area that does handle some major accounts has
bascially two shops set up. There's a quality shop for their major accounts
they want to keep and then there's the "slash and burn" area for all the
local people who just want the cheapest thing possible. Not only are those
local customers getting a 2 minute design on the sign face, but the sign
cabinets themselves are thrown together cheap as possible. Now, you might
say this is all okay, but I believe those customers deserve something that
is going to communicate well, look good and have a durable lasting life.
> If your own success and happiness in business is contingent on what
> 90% of untrained designers are doing, then you are in for a long and
> difficult life.
This is assuming I am having a difficult time with competitors, which I am
not. However, out of a standpoing coming possibly from pride of my own
skills, I don't like seeing people get ripped off by an amateur just in it
for the bucks. I don't like losing any jobs to competitors, even if I
really don't need the work or have time to deal with it.
Whenever I refer a customer to another competitor, I really cringe when
doing it because I am concerned that person is just not going to be happy
with what he gets. And then I worry about losing that person's business for
good because I was booked up with too much other business. He may not see
it that way. He may only come away thinking, "oh well I'm not good enough
to be on your client list, huh?"
Part of what gets me on this soapbox is how some of these people pass
themselves off as artists when they really are not. It takes a hell of a
lot more than just spending a few hundred bucks for licenses of Illustrator
and Photoshop for anyone to call themselves an artist.
Bobby Henderson
Brian Mays
> For example, take the outdoor sign industry market in Oklahoma City.
> Much
> of what gets done there is primarily by companies working against each other
> on underbidding contests. It is to the point where they have little money
> to hire anyone with considerable talent, so commissioned sales people and
> not artists wind up doing the design work. And the results show that. One
> large company in that area that does handle some major accounts has
> bascially two shops set up. There's a quality shop for their major accounts
> they want to keep and then there's the "slash and burn" area for all the
> local people who just want the cheapest thing possible.
Hmmm...how do you know about the OKC market? Are you based in OKC? I am...and
I can definitely see what you are saying. I'd be interested in knowing the
large company's name...see if it's who I think it is.
Brian Mays
http://www.brianmays.com
Bobby Henderson
news:3C76691F...@connectok.com...
I'm not in Oklahoma City, but 80 miles down I-44 in Lawton. We do a some
decent jobs in the OKC area, as well as up in places like Tulsa and
Stillwater. But we don't break our necks trying to market ourselves in OKC.
We don't want to bust our butts trying to win cheap clients. And I
certainly will not do that at all for my own freelance art and graphics
work. Our main entrys into Oklahoma City is through regional customers,
such as larger banks. It is unfortunate that the OKC outdoor sign market is
so dominated by price cutting wars. After a few years you get a really bad
looking city-scape over it.
The thing that is really bad with the OKC situation is that it just gets
downright embarrasing when you drive 80 miles up the road to Tulsa and see
some really nice stuff there. But then there are advertising companies and
sign manufacturers in Tulsa that actually care about what the end product
will look like.
I'm not going to point out that one OKC company's name here, but let's just
say they are one of the largest sign making outfits in the state. They can
make some high quality product, and do for their big clients. It's just a
shame that they are playing into the price cutting game with their local
business and having to put out substandard work to compete.
Bobby Henderson
Dan
>>>The thing that is really bad with the OKC situation is that it just gets
downright embarrasing when you drive 80 miles up the road to Tulsa and see
some really nice stuff there. But then there are advertising companies and
sign manufacturers in Tulsa that actually care about what the end product
will look like.<<<
I can't speak specifically about the OKC/Tulsa differences, but in my
experience a town with great signage also has a well-written, enforceable
sign code. It has nothing to do with whether sign manufacturers "care" more
in one city than the next.
Dan
http://www.FreelanceWorkshops.com
Brian Mays
Bobby Henderson wrote:
> The thing that is really bad with the OKC situation is that it just gets
> downright embarrasing when you drive 80 miles up the road to Tulsa and see
> some really nice stuff there. But then there are advertising companies and
> sign manufacturers in Tulsa that actually care about what the end product
> will look like.
Preaching to the choir, preaching to the choir. I'm trying to make numerous
inroads in Tulsa myself. I have 3 very good friends who live in Tulsa that
have finally convinced me to do this...now I consider moving up there!
I usually go up there every couple of months and spend a weekend with my best
friend and his family. It's a very fun community...high quality of life
there. A lot different from the atmosphere of OKC...in Tulsa people tend to be
proud to live there and work there, in OKC it's almost the opposite. Don't get
me wrong, there are a number of good places in OKC to work (Visual Image
Advertising, Visual Inventor, S Design) but the quality of being in Tulsa alone
just seems to raise them up to another level.
> I'm not going to point out that one OKC company's name here, but let's just
> say they are one of the largest sign making outfits in the state. They can
> make some high quality product, and do for their big clients. It's just a
> shame that they are playing into the price cutting game with their local
> business and having to put out substandard work to compete.
I understand...didn't know it was a sign company, thought it may be an
advertising company and there's one in particular that I could see doing this
(one that I won't work for unless I had no choice simply because of the
corporate culture there).
Very interesting to meet another Oklahoman around these parts.
Brian Mays
Brian Mays
Dan wrote:
> I can't speak specifically about the OKC/Tulsa differences, but in my
> experience a town with great signage also has a well-written, enforceable
> sign code. It has nothing to do with whether sign manufacturers "care" more
> in one city than the next.
Oh Dan...you've not met the people though. You can just tell the difference.
Tulsa is such a much more aggressive, exciting city with much more attention
paid to living an enjoyable life rather than just subsisting.
Brian
Dan
>>>Oh Dan...you've not met the people though.<<<
Uh oh......hicksville, eh? I'm not saying a good sign code can turn a city
into a cultural nirvana, but it is a great way to clean up a town.
Dan
http://www.FreelanceWorkshops.com
"Brian Mays" <bm...@connectok.com> wrote in message
news:3C76A7D0...@connectok.com...
Brian Mays
Dan wrote:
> Brian wrote:
>
> >>>Oh Dan...you've not met the people though.<<<
>
> Uh oh......hicksville, eh? I'm not saying a good sign code can turn a city
> into a cultural nirvana, but it is a great way to clean up a town.
I don't know that "hicksville" is what I'd use to describe it. Or maybe it
is. Many of them don't seem to realize there's a big globe of life outside
Oklahoma City.
Brian
Bobby Henderson
The situation is not that simple at all. First, if you have a number of
sign manufacturers in a given market all offering the same undercut,
sub-standard garbage it doesn't really matter so much what the sign
ordinances say. And as far as ordinances go, very few are properly
developed and even fewer are properly enforced.
For instance, take the Lawton, OK market. It is not huge market, just a
city of a little over 100,000 people. But the sign ordinace there requires
all electrical signs to be listed with a reputable body (such as
Underwriters Laboratories, a.k.a., "U.L. Listed"). The company where my day
job resides is the only sign manufacturer in Oklahoma outside of the Tulsa
area that is licensed to build U.L. Listed signage. But we have competitors
putting up hammered shit in our own home market regardless of what the sign
ordinance says.
You know who is responsible for this situation? Not the sign companies. It
is the business people who insist on being able to buy non-listed electrical
signs that don't conform to National Electric Code standards even. They
want to get away with paying less for faulty, cheap crap. That's what is
going on in Lawton. When the sign ordinace was first adopted, and some
measure of enforcement was made, local business people immediately cried
foul about it. Our local sign ordinace even makes the very reasonable call
for outlawing signs that are left in disrepair. Any sign cabinet missing
faces, showing structural damage or lighting in disrepair must be properly
serviced or the sign shall be removed. Well, I can drive down many city
streets and find lots and lots of signs in bad shape --and some of those
signs have been that way for years.
Sign companies that want to stay in business for a long time will do the
right thing and get with something like the U.L. Listing program, even for
neon signs. It is a good way to cover your ass if something should go
wrong. But then if you are building U.L. Listed electrical signs, which
mandates very good quality parts and workmanship, your neon signs are not
going to short out onto a building fascia and burn down the whole damned
place.
I'll tell you the direction where Oklahoma City is heading (and it is
already heading in some wrong directions already if you use the suburbs as
an indicator). Someone's restaurant will burn down from a neon fire, and
perhaps someone will get injured or killed in the ensuing blaze. The city
council members, each with hopes of getting re-elected, will pander to the
anti-signs crowd and ban all neon signs period. Then they'll adopt a square
footage rule, stating that sign faces can not be larger than a particular
size and no taller than a very restrictive height. Some cities ban street
signs altogether, locking businesses into only having building mounted signs
(and perhaps even restricting what type of sign can be mounted to the
building). Some cities like Tempe, AZ have gone far enough to dictate
actual color schemes. They tried to enforce that on Blockbuster Video and
wound up in court over a trademark violation law suit. Blockbuster Video
won. Haha.
One thing all sign ordinaces fail to do is legislate decent taste. And all
sign ordinances seem to be enacted only to restrict larger businesses
wanting more professional looking signage. I can point out cities with very
restrictive sign ordinances, such as Colorado Springs. The businesses there
who can afford professional electrical signs are very restricted on how
those items are used. Yet some Junior Samples character can nail an old
plywood sheet on the front of his business with the lettering consisting of
cut pieces of electrical tape, and that crap will fly. There's a number of
areas in Colorado Springs that look like a trashy flea market with all the
homemade crap signs by the side of the road. No sign ordinace can touch
those things since most are not electrical and are not large enough to
violate any square footage limits. The signs of most local businesses in
Oklahoma City may look pretty bad, but they'll be guaranteed to look even
worse should the city council just adopt some hair-brained square footage
rule for an ordinace.
Bobby Henderson
Bobby Henderson
> Brian wrote:
>
> >>>Oh Dan...you've not met the people though.<<<
>
> Uh oh......hicksville, eh?
Dan, have you ever been to Oklahoma City or Tulsa? They are not exactly
small towns. Both have metro populations over 1 million people each. Tulsa
is actually quite a well cultured town. Oklahoma City is slowly getting
better in that regard.
> I'm not saying a good sign code can turn a city
> into a cultural nirvana, but it is a great way to clean up a town.
Sign ordinances do nothing to clean up a town. Good sign companies do that.
They also give a city a lively personality. Good sign companies are one of
the main reasons why U.S. Highway 66 is such a popular historical route.
Any book on U.S. 66 always has lots of stuff on neon road signs.
My take on a "good" sign ordinance:
1. Require all electrical signs to constructed and installed according to
standards set by a listing body like U.L., and have those signs registered
with those listing services. Doing such will take any work load off city
personnel who have to go out and see if electrical signs are complying to
the ordinance. U.L. techs will come out and do spot checks instead. This
also decreases the amount of paperwork city employees have to file. And
that saves the taxpayers money. It also relieves the city of any liability
since they are not the ones calling the shots on what kinds of parts can or
cannot be used in electrical signs.
2. Require all signs, electrical and non-illuminated, to be kept properly
functional. This might require some work on the part of the city, at least
when it comes to enforcing complaint cases.
3. Require all signs to be placed properly with respect to property lines,
easements, street rights of way, site triangles, power lines, and buried
pipe and cable. This requires a detailed site plan. And it requires the
local business person to keep some of this detail on his premises. You
wouldn't believe just how many trash signs (a lot of the home made plywood
crap) violates many or even all of these rules. There's lots of levels of
miscommunication made possible by one or more parties not properly
maintaining their paperwork. If some crucial piece of information is
missing, you might sever a major fiber optic trunk line when you go dig out
the hole for your sign support pier.
4. Height and square footage limits should only be applied where
appropriate, such as a residential area where a commercial business has been
given a variance to locate in that area. This kind of item should be
handled on a case by case basis and when drawing up the rules, reputable
sign companies should be consulted for what will work and what will not.
Such rules should never be applied across the board in Draconian fashion.
5. All permanent signs should prove wind load and be stamped by a certified
structural engineer. Many cities don't require this at all. A lot don't
require an engineer's stamp unless a sign's height exceeds 20' or 30'. If
all signs had to prove wind load, it would get rid of a lot of home made
trash signage --the kind I see blowing all through the sky during a severe
thunderstorm. This rule and the U.L. Listing rule would go a long way to
legislate the good taste all communities want. Why? Because it would make
conditions very tough for fly-by-night amateurs to do business. The real
professionals would still be around.
Bobby Henderson
Dan
running for city council.
Dan
http://www.FreelanceWorkshops.com
"Bobby Henderson" <bob...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:rZAd8.6991$9c3.48...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
Dan
sign codes are at the heart of good city planning.
Dan
http://www.FreelanceWorkshops.com
"Bobby Henderson" <bob...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:DmBd8.6996$sO3.48...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
Bobby Henderson
> You put a lot of time into this "chicken-egg" thing, don't you?
I type fast actually. Hehe. I don't think of this discussion as a
chicken-egg thing. But the situation regarding sign ordinances and fly by
night competitors is a pretty frustrating thing.
> Enforceable
> sign codes are at the heart of good city planning.
The trick is coming up with an intelligently thought out sign ordinance and
resisting political flak from local business people by enforcing the
ordinance.
Bobby Henderson
Bobby Henderson
> Gee Bobby.....perhaps you should consider writing a letter to the editor.
Or
> running for city council.
Actually I think newsgroups like this develop more intelligent discussion
than a letter to the editor that just goes out indiscriminately to a very
broad crowd (but I do get the joke anyway).
It is rare for a businessman to be able to be a politician at the same time.
When you look who populates the seats on most city councils what you find is
mostly retired people, lawyers, or on occaision a business person who has
enough clout to withstand commercial arm twisting. I certainly don't need a
situation where someone walks into my place of business and says, "I'll buy
that large format mural from you, but you have to vote yes on that certain
agenda item during the next council meeting." That's really too bad. I
know a few people in my city that are visionary enough to do some great
things if they were on the council. But they refuse to run specifically for
the reason I cited. I guess this is why we have a government primarily made
up of lawyers.
Bobby Henderson
Hecate
2002 09:20:13 -0600, you supposed:
>cpg <c_p_...@yahoooooooo.com> wrote in message
>news:3c7651a7...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
>> >> Actually, they get into business to make money.
>> >
>> >Yeah, and that's their ONLY goal. They don't do it over enjoying the
>work
>> >or taking pride in a design. It's only about the bucks. And for those
>who
>> >are just in it for the money, their quality of work usually suffers for
>it.
>>
>> You started out ok but now you're just talking out your butt.
>
>I don't think so. People who just want to cash a paycheck are going to take
>all kinds of shortcuts and just get things done as quick as possible without
>regard to actually working the design problem.
>
I agree with a lot of what you've said. However, I think you've made
the argument slightly simplistic.
For me, the *only* reason for working is to earn money to pay bills,
and be able to get on in life. Work is something that is done to
achieve this. Pleasure, on the other hand, comes from doing work you
enjoy. However, that doesn't *necessarily* mean work by which you earn
money. For me, that's always been "work" outside of employment. Oh, I
always do my best, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily something I
enjoy doing. MAybe things will look different now I'm trying to work
for myself. it certainly didn't when I was employed :)
--
Hecate
hec...@newsguy.com
Cody L.
they use it to write "SALT LAKE 2002" in all of the venues
-CAL
"Popsqualli" <y...@dontwannaknow.com> wrote in message news:<u73h93d...@corp.supernews.com>...
> "Bobby Henderson" <arow...@mail.sirinet.net> wrote in message
> news:u730j1...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Popsqualli <y...@dontwannaknow.com> wrote in message
> > news:u70sii3...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Sorry to break the flow of things, but to get back to the original
> topic:
> > > Does anyone know the font NBC uses on their version of the SLC Olympics
> > > logo? I believe it has the peacock logo mixed with the olympic rings.
> The
> > > font in question spells out Salt Lake 2002 over the icons. Don't bother
> > > looking for it on NBC's site or at NBColympics.com. Unfortunately, it's
> not
> > > at either. -ed
> >
> > I can't recall the graphic to which you refer. However, I do know NBC
> uses
> > ITC Serif for their corporate logo identification.
> >
> > Bobby Henderson
> >
> >
>
> Well, I've looked and looked on the web, but NBC seems to not want to use
> the logo they're using all over the place on TV. The only thing I could
> scrap up is here:
> http://www.shopnbc.com//popups/closeup.asp?ProdPath=/media/products/N/N50327
> _400.jpg&prodname=NBC%20Salt%20Lake%20City%20%20Screen%20T-Shirt It's the
> logo on the back of a souvenir t-shirt. Not the best but hope it helps. -ed
Bobby Henderson
news:9dcee467.02022...@posting.google.com...
> The Font that they use on the "SALT LAKE 2002" Banners in
> the ice rink is Tahoma. they use it to write "SALT LAKE 2002"
> in all of the venues
Close guess, but the font used for the lettering you describe is actually
Frutiger55 Roman Bold. Tahoma is pretty similar to Frutiger, but not an
exact match.
The original poster was asking about a different font NBC was using in their
promotions of the games, and that font was ITC Binary Bold.
Bobby Henderson
cpg
>chicken-egg thing. But the situation regarding sign ordinances and fly by
>night competitors is a pretty frustrating thing.
>
>> Enforceable
>> sign codes are at the heart of good city planning.
>
>The trick is coming up with an intelligently thought out sign ordinance and
>resisting political flak from local business people by enforcing the
>ordinance.
I'm not trying to pick a fight here, Bobby but honestly, this sounds
like you are in favor of legislating design quality, which is a step
away from legislating good taste.
If the OKC community design standard is "Crap is just fine", why is it
ok to tell all the OKC small businesses that they have to upgrade?
Sure, it'll look better to you and anybody else with any aesthetic
sense, but it sounds like the majority of people buying their design
products are either happy enough with low quality or are unwilling to
pay for high quality. Isn't this just a case of market forces reaching
the inevitable balance between price and quality? Maybe you're not
happy with where that balance has been reached but the majority of
people in OKC must be satisfied with it or it wouldn't be what it is.
By the way, this is an example of *me* talking out my butt, since I
know little about marketing, business, or law. I just draw pictures.
cpg
Bobby Henderson
> >I type fast actually. Hehe. I don't think of this discussion as a
> >chicken-egg thing. But the situation regarding sign ordinances and fly
by
> >night competitors is a pretty frustrating thing.
> >
> >> Enforceable
> >> sign codes are at the heart of good city planning.
> >
> >The trick is coming up with an intelligently thought out sign ordinance
and
> >resisting political flak from local business people by enforcing the
> >ordinance.
>
> I'm not trying to pick a fight here, Bobby but honestly, this sounds
> like you are in favor of legislating design quality, which is a step
> away from legislating good taste.
Actually, I am of the standpoint that it is impossible to legislate good
taste. With the examples of the city of Tempe, AZ getting defeated in court
over trademark infringement as a result of their color-scheme mandates, it
is a very risky thing to do.
What I want to have in a proper sign ordinance is for quality materials and
workmanship to be mandated. That is possible. It is perfectly reasonable
for a city code to require all electrical signs to be U.L. Listed and for
signs to be installed in proper places with respect to property lines and
driver's sight triangles. And I don't think it is too much to ask to
require a business to keep its signs properly maintained. If the faces blow
out, get them replaced or remove the sign structure. I'm not sure how one
can go about outlawing cheap plywood signs with electrical tape lettering
and such, other than a city code saying any street or building signs should
be built with enough structural reenforcement that they will not come loose
in a certain amount of wind load. "Sign of the Times" magazine has a
special issue every year where they show an Ugly Signs contest. Sign people
from around the country send in photos of the worst abominations in sign
murder and the photos are often very funny, and also very shocking in just
how shameless some business people can be with putting up really terrible
quality signage. Many of the Ugly Signs winners are from the cheap ply-wood
home made type of ilk. And that is just the kind of sign type most sign
ordinaces do little to nothing at all in stopping.
> If the OKC community design standard is "Crap is just fine", why is it
> ok to tell all the OKC small businesses that they have to upgrade?
> Sure, it'll look better to you and anybody else with any aesthetic
> sense, but it sounds like the majority of people buying their design
> products are either happy enough with low quality or are unwilling to
> pay for high quality. Isn't this just a case of market forces reaching
> the inevitable balance between price and quality? Maybe you're not
> happy with where that balance has been reached but the majority of
> people in OKC must be satisfied with it or it wouldn't be what it is.
I am of the opinion that most of the local businesses in Oklahoma City feel
that kind of low quality product is all they can get for signage. Some
customers do a little more legwork and find they can get a much better
quality product both in terms of build quality and design sense by shopping
around in Tulsa or talking to me in Lawton. But that is pretty rare. Most
people have the attitude that a sign is a sign is a sign. They're all the
same. In reality they are not.
Bobby Henderson
Brian Mays
Bobby Henderson wrote:
> I am of the opinion that most of the local businesses in Oklahoma City feel
> that kind of low quality product is all they can get for signage.
Oklahoma City has low tech typography in use on their signs. Usually they use
type called "SPRAY PAINT."
Brian
Bobby Henderson
news:3C7980CE...@swbell.net...
Hehe. There's a lot of that. And then for many lighted signs, you have
Helvetica Bold or Arial Bold just distorted to hell to serve all shapes and
sizes of signs.
Bobby Henderson
Brian Mays
signs too? A former employer had so much bird poop caked on the employers were
starting a pool on when it would become so heavy it fell.
Brian
Bobby Henderson
> I wonder if the company owners could be required to clean bird poop off
the
> signs too? A former employer had so much bird poop caked on the employers
were
> starting a pool on when it would become so heavy it fell.
Normally, it is the responsibility of a business to maintain its signs,
including the jobs of keeping them clean. However, many signs are high up
in the air enough that customers cannot reach them. They have to call
someone for crane service instead. Good cabinet design will keep pigeons
out (along with draining away any water build up inside). However, it is
harder than hell to keep birds from perching on the top of cabinets. It is
tough to bird-proof signs. We'll do everything from putting up rows of
clear plastic spines on the tops of cabinets to using rubber snakes and
hawk/falcon decoys. Eventually the birds get wise to it and land there
anyway. Channel letters can be a real pain too since birds like to nest in
the counters, such as the hole on a letter "o" or "a".
I was never bothered with pigeons until I got involved in sign design.
Luckily, I never have to go out on service trucks and climb in signs to
repair failing ballasts, lighting and do other internal repairs. Bird poop
on the outside of a sign can be bad, but when you go and start a refurb job
on some old sign where pigeons were nesting inside, you're going to fight
hard to keep from barfing. I can't imagine climbing into a large, old sign
cabinet with no drainage, in 100+ degree heat. You may walk into the bottom
of the cabinet and step into an ankle deep pool of water/pigeon crap goop
with dead pigeons floating in it. Yaahhh! I feel sorry for our service
guys sometimes.
I remember working on a redecoration job on an awning, applying graphics on
site. There were dead pigeons rotting away behind this structure. We had
to fish out the carcasses and get rid of them since the stink was so bad we
couldn't work.
Some sign people call pigeons "sky rats". Sea gulls can be really bad like
that as well.
Bobby Henderson
Read Howard
Millionaire" I'll be sure to let you know. We should give you a new nick
too. The Font Meister.
"Bobby Henderson" <arow...@mail.sirinet.net> wrote in message
news:u6lphcf...@corp.supernews.com...
> Ame <yah...@likerightsure.com> wrote in message
> news:3c6ae06d$0$36736$4bb1...@news.dwave.net...
> > "morgan" <hellon...@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:3c6a...@news.alphalink.com.au...
> > > You are such a lot of tossers, just tell him the fucking font name for
> > > christs sake.
> >
> > They did. Bobby did. Immediately even.
>
> Maybe his news reader didn't pick up my early response. Still, there was
no
> need for him to toss in an expletive-infected post into this thread. This
> discussion is certainly more interesting (at least to me) than most of the
> ones going on in the ng currently.
>
> At any rate, the font used in the 2002 Olympics logo is Frutiger
(Frutiger45
> Light, Bold to be exact; Frutiger 55 Roman is just a little to light in
> stroke for an exact match).
>
> Bobby Henderson
>
>
Steve Miller
Bobby Henderson
news:m3ie8.19584$dK1.73744@rwcrnsc54...
> You ARE a maniac. If they ever have a "Fonts" edition of "Who Wants To Be
A
> Millionaire" I'll be sure to let you know. We should give you a new nick
> too. The Font Meister.
Thanks for the compliment. However, the nickname "Font Meister" has already
been taken by the fellow who runs the Macromedia Fontographer newsgroup.
Bobby Henderson
Jane Krate Duda
Jane, in a real "hicksville" in VT.