Can't do a minus front/minus back; help?

[Ace]

This is driving me nuts.

I've made a pattern. I've got some text. I want to cut holes in the
pattern where the text was. Illustrator CS has the Pathfinder option to
"Minus Back." So, I place the text (converted to outlines and grouped) in
the back, pattern in front. Select both, do the minus back thing, and the
whole thing gets screwed up. One of my text letters stay and the others
disappear, it all turns to paths I can't seem to fill, or most of my
graphics dissappear.

The results are the same whether the two items are on the same layer or
separate layers.

Since my academic version came with no print manual and the help file is a
little vague, I went back to the last version for which I got a full paper
manual, Illustrator 7. On page 133, it shows the "Pathfinder Gallery:"

- Unite, makes a single merged shape from overlapping separate images.
Works as advertised.

- Intersect, creates a new object from the common space shared by two
shapes. Works fine.

- Exclude, knocks out the area where one shape overlaps another. Works
perfectly.

- Minus Front and Minus Back, subtracts backmost object from frontmost, or
vice versa. WILL NOT WORK! Screws up both images.

The Minus Front option apparently isn't offered in CS (in 7, Pathfinder is
under Object; in CS, it's under Effects), but the Minus Back options works
exactly the same in both versions, which is to say it DOES NOT WORK.

If I only select one letter of my text, and use that to cut a hole in the
pattern layer, sometimes it works. But it takes the components and puts
them on a new layer. I tried doing them one letter at a time, but I ended
up with dozens of layers, and each layer had part of what I wanted and some
stuff I didn't. Couldn't make it work.

I turned out five variations of this graphic in under an hour (for screen
printing, embroidery, etc.), but then I've spent almost three hours trying
to do this simple cut, which should take two seconds.

Anybody have a clue what I'm doing wrong? Thanks loads for anyone who has a
clue.

[Spikey]

in article 1112383497.8c2858bb711109593e7d139fbdd1f670@teranews, Ace at

a...@ace.com wrote on 04/01/2005 11:23 AM:

> This is driving me nuts.
>
> I've made a pattern. I've got some text. I want to cut holes in the
> pattern where the text was. Illustrator CS has the Pathfinder option to
> "Minus Back." So, I place the text (converted to outlines and grouped) in
> the back, pattern in front. Select both, do the minus back thing, and the
> whole thing gets screwed up. One of my text letters stay and the others

> disappear...

Each letter shape must be done one at a time to cut holes in the shape under
those letters.

You can't do a whole bunch of letters at one time.

[Ace]

Thanks, you guys; basically you both suggest that my grouped word can't
subtract from the grouped shapes, that I have to do it one letter at a time.

Here's why that's not working.

1) There are multiple stripes behind each letter. Not only do I have to do
one letter at a time, I have to do one stripe at a time. Then, the letter
is gone, and I have to finish its cut on three or four other stripes.

2) The stripes are behind multiple letters. That means the cut stripe isn't
finished in most cases.

Anyhow, I think I've figured it out, or at least a hack around it. The AI 7
book says "Subtracts the frontmosts selected OBJECTS from the backmost
OBJECT.

So, turns out, I can select my whole word to subtract, not just individual
letters. But I can only cut holes in ONE of the background stripes at a
time. Then, of course, all my text is gone. So what I need to do is, if
there are 15 stripes that need to be cut, I need to duplicate layer and make
16 copies of the text layer first. Then, as each one is eviscerated,
sacrificing itself to cut a stripe, I toss it out.

But you know what? I think I'll drop it into Photoshop, where it'll only
take a second to do it, then autotrace the cut stripes back into a vector
file. I'm sure it'll be quicker.

[Monty Jake Monty]

I assume you are going to be able to see something behind the stripes
through the holes you cut with the letters. If that's the case, why not use
the letters as a clipping path on a copy of what ever is behind the stripes
and put it in front of the stripes.

Steve

--- faith \'fath\ n : firm belief in something for which there is no proof.
Webster's Dictionary

[Ace]

>I assume you are going to be able to see something behind the stripes
> through the holes you cut with the letters. If that's the case, why not
> use
> the letters as a clipping path on a copy of what ever is behind the
> stripes
> and put it in front of the stripes.

Nope. Just letters in front, stripes in back. Wanted to trap out the
stripes layer so nothing would print or sew from that layer where the
letters go, in front of them. Nothing behind them; it'll be embroidered in
two colors, and screened on glass in one color.

Did the 16 layer-copies of the text thing, and it worked fine. But it seems
silly to have to do it that way. Apparently you can't subtract a compound
path from a compound path. You can't even subtract a simple path from a
compound path. You can subtract a compound path from a single simple path.

[andrew....@gmail.com]

My jankety work-around was to draw a thin rectangle across all of the offending rectangles outside the art area (assuming some bleed here) and join them all into one picket fence. Cut your letters out of the fence, then clip off the end with the connector.