Early History of Goth site
SirChasm
>I've finally got somewhere with the Early History of Goth site. Not very
Ooh, you used George Gimarc's book as a reference! If it weren't for th'
'Rock n Roll Alternative' there are about a million songs and bands I never
would have heard of. Just a *small* sample of the bands DFW heard first on
the Sunday-nite zew: Clash, Souxsie, C. Death, The Hugh Beaumont Experience
& Non Compis Mentis & Nervebreakers & Telephones (local bands), Germs, X,
Judys, Devo, DKs, Bad Religion, Circle Jerks, Meat Puppets, Cure, Femmes,
oh, the list just goes on and on. For much of the 80's, he was our *only*
source around here. (Besides, George is a Close Personal Friend(tm) of Andy
Partridge, which fact alone makes him a ghod.)
(Oh, can't forget the Bangles: "This is shore to shore, Rock 'n Roll
Alternative!")
And if you ask me, George is largely responsible for the term 'Alternative
Music'.
In case anybody missed 'em:
>The Low-Tech Pete version is at: www.scathe.demon.co.uk/histgoth.htm
>
>The New And Improved Bob Version, with Cascading Style Sheets and Java
>Bits is at: www.scathe.demon.co.uk/histgoth/histgoth.htm
>
>Both of them come with free typos...
--
SirChasm
"they want to get out of here
but they can't find the exits
they cling to the cinema
and they can't find security
then they finally got recognized
so they left in obscurity and misery" -- GBV
Pete Scathe
goth's relation to Punk and New Romantic, and a discussion on How It All
Came To Be Called Goth.
It's all _very_ Work In Progress still, with further discussions,
timelines (82-84) and links to be added as well as tidying up the
existing site so it makes some sort of sense (for instance, 1979 and
1981 are in tables, whereas 1980 is in list format. There was a reason
for this, but I've forgotten what it was...).
The Low-Tech Pete version is at: www.scathe.demon.co.uk/histgoth.htm
The New And Improved Bob Version, with Cascading Style Sheets and Java
Bits is at: www.scathe.demon.co.uk/histgoth/histgoth.htm
Both of them come with free typos...
--
Pete Scathe (Next Resurgence: Sunday 6th September)
club info & daft haircuts: www.scathe.demon.co.uk/
email replies: delete "pixie" from "pixiedemon"
Jack
SirChasm wrote in message <6rtfok$n...@journal.concentric.net>...
>Pete Scathe wrote
>
>>I've finally got somewhere with the Early History of Goth site. Not very
>
>'Rock n Roll Alternative' there are about a million songs and bands I never
>would have heard of. Just a *small* sample of the bands DFW heard first on
>the Sunday-nite zew: Clash, Souxsie, C. Death, The Hugh Beaumont Experience
>& Non Compis Mentis & Nervebreakers & Telephones (local bands), Germs, X,
>Judys, Devo, DKs, Bad Religion, Circle Jerks, Meat Puppets, Cure, Femmes,
>oh, the list just goes on and on. For much of the 80's, he was our *only*
>source around here. (Besides, George is a Close Personal Friend(tm) of Andy
>Partridge, which fact alone makes him a ghod.)
God do those names bring back memories. Listening to the overnight "rock"
show on the local college radio station in the middle of the night, in my
parent's living room, (I didn't have a stereo in my room.) back in the
mid-80's, delighted with the fact that I was getting to hear all sorts of
really cool music that I'd never even known existed before, and trying to
associate the names the DJ's gave in their playlists with the songs I'd just
heard, sometimes getting up the nerve to call in and request something that
I'd heard some other night that I'd particularly liked... ::sigh::
Man I miss that. I don't know. I think that the 90's are just *dead* in
terms of music with any kind of *life* or originality. Nothing that I've
been able to get excited about anyway. Far too much of what I'm hearing
these days is just, "mix to formula", following whatever formula the
particular genre of music calls for.
Or maybe I'm just getting old. <g>
Still, that list brings back memories. I swear, I haven't even *heard* some
of the names on that list in at *least* ten years.
--
-Jack- "Death, it's not just for breakfast anymore."
If you want to avoid getting lost in the spam, send
replies to jack (AT) mari (DOT) net
maggot
> ...Far too much of what I'm hearing
> these days is just, "mix to formula", following whatever formula the
> particular genre of music calls for.
>
> Or maybe I'm just getting old. <g>...
Well the contemporary religion of Pyschiatry purports that
after 25, the human animal has been set in their tastes and
habits, though some exploration is known to occur.
Particularly, they are set on what kind of music is
acceptable.
However, having spent eight hours working the KoRn autograph
signing publicity stunt last week I am inclined to agree
with you rather than the psychiatrists.
I don't know, perhaps when we pass 25 we just stop looking
for new music. From what I remember, all the music that I
(and I think "we") was really impressed with was underground
music, that was very rarely played, and didn't, until
recently, see the light of day, much less mass publicity.
Perhaps there are just as many exiting and innovative bands
out there buried under the dregs of mass record label
produce, just as it was in the eighties, and we have lost
the desire, or the ability to find them...
maggot
Albatross
<snip, no good new music>
> Or maybe I'm just getting old. <g>
Nope.
Unless I am too. *snort*
I was just talking with the fiasco about how this.
Music has had it's doldrums in the past, but there was often a
legitimate underground. I dont beleive there is a creative music
centered subculture in this country right now. The goth scene is tired.
(c4 aside) Punk has no punk in it. Art types of rock have no art in
them, when they exist at all. Jazz and Classical are almost exhausted,
and often suffer from the same drive to package that rock music suffer
from.
There was an ad for Nike Town on the local "alternative" radio station
last night. After listening to the thousandth pale ripoff of a rock and
roll band come on, I'm thrilled to listen to an old Journey song. (for
chrissake)
I was thinking how original a band like REM was early on. There had
been nothing quite like them. They were creating from something with no
preconceived formula. (outside the instrumentation, which they took
liberties with.) If they needed lyrics that were indecipherable, they
had them. And real originality is always a matter of soul. They made
music that came from something unique in themselves. Many bands were
without willful pose; or at least whatever pose was struck came from
emotion, rather than marketing. (The marketed bands failed, unlike today
when they thrive... at least for a song or two.)
We've had nothing like this since the premature demise of Nirvana.
(love em or hate em; wheres Cynthia when you need her.)
All rock musicians:
Make your music from something deeper.
Go back down into it again.
Albatross
Christabel La Motte
Albatross <tho...@go2net.com> wrote:
> We've had nothing like this since the premature demise of Nirvana.
> (love em or hate em; wheres Cynthia when you need her.)
Heck, I'm back, I can fill in here. ;)
As for Dragoness, she's working a new and much better job and doing
well...
--
"Christabel La Motte" QUACK <lam...@toilet-duck.org> QUACK! Washington, DC
"This is like being nibbled to death by...what are those earth creatures
called -- feathers, long bill, webbed feet, go 'quack'?" "Cats."
"Like being nibbled to death by cats."
Atlantiz
rapping, rapping at my chamber door...
> I was thinking how original a band like REM was early on. There had
>been nothing quite like them. They were creating from something with no
>preconceived formula. (outside the instrumentation, which they took
>liberties with.) If they needed lyrics that were indecipherable, they
>had them. And real originality is always a matter of soul. They made
I am a BIG REM fan. Or at least, I was until Monster.
You're right...they were Originals. I remember back in the 80's when
College Radio first started playing them (not that I knew what the
local "college radio station" was, since I was fairly young at the
time) they were listed as "Alternative". At least, I seem to vaguely
remember that. I found most of my REM tapes at second-hand stores,
mainly because some people just didn't "get it". Some of my REM
collection had to be special-ordered in because at that point they
weren't BIG like (shudder) MC Hammer or Milli Vanilli (retch).
But the point is that they weren't afraid of taking a risk. Even when
Out of Time came out, they took some risks. Sure, every second album
had a similar sound (yup...even down to the one mandatory
Absolutely-Cheesy-Pop-Song), but that was part of the charm. The way
I look at it is that you have to listen to each album and get used to
it on its own merits, from the sloppy guitar days of the early 80's to
the political opinions of the late 80's/early 90's, and the
experimentation that started going on when they released "Automatic
for the People".
Then came Monster. And "Adventures in Hi-Fi". I had a hard enough
time getting used to "Automatic", but when I plugged in "Monster", it
sounded just like my brother's Nirvana tapes! I wasn't quite sure
what to think of that...Now the CD just sits in my CD box gathering
dust. Every so often (rarely) I'll get the urge to listen to it, but
it really just doesn't sound like REM...as wide and varying their
sound is.
And a LOT of bands have taken that tactic. It may sound mainstream,
but I was almost relieved to hear Tea Party played on the local pop
radio. Sure, it sounds basically like the bastard child of Jim
Morrison, Sisters, and Dead Can Dance, but in comparison to most of
what I'm forced to hear on the radio these days, its downright
original. At least....DIFFERENT.
I almost feel like we're just regurgitating past eras and chunking out
whatever fits the media's version of What-should-be.
I'm just glad that I can still go to HMV and get the music I missed
that I SHOULD have been listening to when I was younger (lack of funds
means you listen to whatever your family gets you for X-mas), instead
of having to put up with whatever is the flavour-de-jour.
Maybe that's why those of us 25 and up don't seem to cotton to "new
music".... ;>
Maire
....long-winded, I know...surry...
-----
Further info: http://the-edge.humberc.on.ca/~ocean
"One can't complain. I have my friends.
Someone spoke to me only yesterday." --Eeyore
Terminally Single Perkybittergoff
benton
>Jack wrote:
>
>> ...Far too much of what I'm hearing
>> these days is just, "mix to formula", following whatever formula the
>> particular genre of music calls for.
>>
>> Or maybe I'm just getting old. <g>...
>
>Well the contemporary religion of Pyschiatry purports that
>after 25, the human animal has been set in their tastes and
>habits, though some exploration is known to occur.
>Particularly, they are set on what kind of music is
>acceptable.
Well, I'm just a babygoff, and I concur that the current music scene
is boring and unoriginal.
Music Television is boring and unoriginal.
In my area, even the local bands who get some small airplay on our
local "alternative" station strike me as extra-yawn strength.
Although, occasionally WFNX plays something that takes the top of my
head off and I never hear it again.
I mostly listen to the above station for the "Leftover Lunch"... the
only time I've ever heard SOM or Bauhaus or anything else on the radio
outside of Halloween.
~* plug *~
And WFNX is on the internet too... you might want to check it out
around the hour of 12noon-1pm EST. It can get very interesting.
~* end plug *~
That was my payback to them for tuning me on to X-ray Spex. Poly
Styrene really blew my mind.
There are, of course, some real gems out there to be grasped.
But in terms of any radio airplay or publicity or "buzz" no.
Everything seems/tastes/feels like product right now.
Backstreet Boys? Spice Girls? R&B? "Alternative"?
The are chewing up the bandwidth and dollars of the youth who would
otherwise be buying more interesting things.
I know I am.
~* snippy *~
May the One shine on us all, even if we are feeling very mopey.
benton
Current CD: Bjork|Post
"...your flirt finds me out, teases the crack in me..."
Current Location: In a jar on Rat Bastard's shelf. *gigglegigglesnorteehee*
Current Book: Plato|The Republic
Spelling flames will be ignored.
Atlantiz
Maire
....long-winded, I know...surry...
==== WAS CANCELLED BY ====
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Subject: Re: Early History of Goth site
From: group...@isc.org (David C Lawrence)
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Date: 27 Aug 1998 12:35:50 GMT
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Joe Brenner
> Man I miss that. I don't know. I think that the 90's are just *dead* in
> terms of music with any kind of *life* or originality. Nothing that I've
> been able to get excited about anyway. Far too much of what I'm hearing
> these days is just, "mix to formula", following whatever formula the
> particular genre of music calls for.
From: Albatross <tho...@go2net.com>
> I was just talking with the fiasco about how this. Music
> has had it's doldrums in the past, but there was often a
> legitimate underground. I dont beleive there is a creative
> music centered subculture in this country right now. The
> goth scene is tired. (c4 aside) Punk has no punk in it. Art
> types of rock have no art in them, when they exist at
> all. Jazz and Classical are almost exhausted, and often
> suffer from the same drive to package that rock music suffer
> from.
It's a little ridiculous to go around asserting that music
is dead in the nineties unless you can claim to have heard
all of it, or at least a pretty big chunk of it.
I was doing the radio DJ thing at KZSU (the Stanford college
station) for a few years. KZSU probably gets about half of
all recorded music that's released, and trying to keep up
with it was like having an acoustic firehose blasting
through your head.
Here's a quick list of 5 great, creative things from the
90s:
(1) The Golden Palomino's, e.g. the album "Pure". This
probably isn't technically "goth" but I wouldn't hesitate to
recommend it to goths. Almost whispered female vocals (Lori
Carlson), with great lyrics, over slow to mid-tempo
techno-influenced music.
(2) Experimental Audio Research - been doing some great work
on the border between techno and industrial. Really dense
layers of samples.
(3) Asmat Dream (part of the New Music Indonesia series),
music rooted in an Indonesian tradition without being
confined to it, and also without doing a mindless imitation
of Western pop.
(4) Sleater-Kinney, e.g. "Dig Me Out". High energy punk,
with solid vocals and decent lyrics. Proof that there's
still life in the old genres.
(5) DJ Spooky - on the border between techno-ambient and
hip-hop (and in my opinion quite a bit better than, say, DJ
Shadow).
And now, you'll have to excuse me for a minute while I start
ranting about the Bay area "improv/creative music/new music"
scene that I've been following lately. Here's a very brief
list of some of the superb players on the scene here:
Miya Masaoka - a very creative Koto player (the Koto is a
long, horizontal stringed instrument, a japanese zither you
might say), who in recent years has augmented her instrument
with midi sensors that detect rings wired up to her hands.
She's also done some great work composing for large groups,
in particular the recently released "What's the Difference
Between Stripping and Playing the Violin".
Graham Connah - jazz-oriented composer/pianist. His most
recent release has some great tracks with Jewlia Eisenberg
(of Charming Hostess) on vocals.
Philip Gelb - a master of the Shakihachi (japanese bamboo
flute, exceedingly difficult to play). He's put out a number
of interesting releases lately: just to name one, let's say
"Purple Wind".
Matt Ingalls - a young clarinet player composer, who's
recently done a transistion from good to great in my
opinion. He's been doing some great perfomances with people
like Morgan Guberman on stand-up bass, and I really hope
they get some recordings out soon.
Beth Custer - sax and clarinet (until recently she was
performing with didge player Stephen Kent under the name of
Trance Mission).
Moe! Staiano - really energetic found-object percussion:
a one-man Einstuerzende Neubauten. Lately he's been
directing large ensembles of guitarists playing with battery
operated vibrators (the "Death by Dildo" series). His first
CD release is "The Non-Study of First Impressions".
It doesn't matter how much you think you know about music
(and I don't even claim to know all that much): there is
always something out there you haven't tapped into yet.
Second Satan in Command
> Here's a quick list of 5 great, creative things from the
> 90s:
>
> (1) The Golden Palomino's, e.g. the album "Pure".
Haven't the Paliminoes been around since at least the 80's?
> This
> probably isn't technically "goth" but I wouldn't hesitate to
> recommend it to goths.
Eh, who cares if it's goth or not. Just make it good.
+ Kali Nichta - http://www.sfgoth.com/~kali +
"Goth is never having to say you're sorry"
-Pariahic
David Gerard
: Music has had it's doldrums in the past, but there was often a
:legitimate underground. I dont beleive there is a creative music
:centered subculture in this country right now.
There isn't one that's noticeable.
Mainstream sucks dingo balls.
Alternative has been co-opted.
Independent has no coherence whatsoever, and THAT's the problem. No chip on
its shoulder. No demon to unite against.
There is at least one scene, and that's a pretty obscure indie pop scene
that doesn't really have an agreed-upon name. 'International Pop
Underground' is as close as I'm gonna get. It's as unnameable as grunge was
just before they called it 'grunge'.
: The goth scene is tired.
:(c4 aside)
The scene is fine. Artistically, it's bankrupt (as a scene - there are
individual points of talent, but not as a scene) and has been since before
it was called 'goth'.
: Punk has no punk in it.
Shit no.
: Art types of rock have no art in
:them, when they exist at all.
The only one I can still see is leftover pre-grunge disappearing in to
mathematics and isolation.
: Jazz and Classical are almost exhausted,
:and often suffer from the same drive to package that rock music suffer
:from.
They have actually worked out that the far edge of what was once 'rock',
the far edge of what was once 'jazz' and the far edge of what was once
'classical' are in fact converging on the same thing. But it's not
coherent. And one of its greatest problems with coherence is trying to
incorporate the far edge of what is still 'techno' and make sense of the
resulting mess. *Really* bad idea.
: I was thinking how original a band like REM was early on. There had
:been nothing quite like them. They were creating from something with no
:preconceived formula. (outside the instrumentation, which they took
:liberties with.) If they needed lyrics that were indecipherable, they
:had them. And real originality is always a matter of soul. They made
:music that came from something unique in themselves. Many bands were
:without willful pose; or at least whatever pose was struck came from
:emotion, rather than marketing. (The marketed bands failed, unlike today
:when they thrive... at least for a song or two.)
They weren't that goddamn geniuslike, though they did have the right place
and time. Excellent synthesists, and tremendous music fans.
: We've had nothing like this since the premature demise of Nirvana.
:(love em or hate em; wheres Cynthia when you need her.)
Nirvana would be the first to admit that they were just the lucky ones to
make it through. If that's 'luck'.
: All rock musicians:
: Make your music from something deeper.
: Go back down into it again.
What will happen is that two or three brilliant bands will happen and
create a history leading up to them.
--
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/ AGSF Unit 0|4 http://suburbia.net/~fun/
Stop JUNK EMAIL Boycott AMAZON.COM http://mickc.home.mindspring.com/index1.htm
"Then they gave me the funky tin-can machine. That was when I knew I was
dealing with fruit-loops." (H*ydn Bl*ck on $cientology)
Joe Brenner
>Joe Brenner wrote:
>> Here's a quick list of 5 great, creative things from the
>> 90s:
>>
>> (1) The Golden Palomino's, e.g. the album "Pure".
>Haven't the Paliminoes been around since at least the 80's?
Sure. There's been line-up changes though, they sound
completely different, and they might as well be a new band.
Besides, I was specifically talking about the disk "Pure",
from 1994 I think, with Lori Carlson on vocals.
I mean, take "No Skin", which goes something like:
Everyone I see is missing something,
Everyone I see is missing something,
No Thought, No Breath, No Eyes, No Heart...
Didn't I tell you I have no skin?
The more recent album "Dead Inside" (1996) with Nicole
Blackman on vocals is also pretty excellent.
>> This
>> probably isn't technically "goth" but I wouldn't hesitate to
>> recommend it to goths.
>Eh, who cares if it's goth or not. Just make it good.
My sentiments exactly.
Pete Scathe
>Pete Scathe wrote
>
>>I've finally got somewhere with the Early History of Goth site. Not very
>
>Ooh, you used George Gimarc's book as a reference!
Yup- both the punk & post-punk diaries. Damn handy. Past 1982, however,
I'm on my own... I did have a load of music papers from around then, but
I left them in my parents attic and they got rained on.
Naturally, a few escaped just to remind me what I'd lost... :(
David Gerard
<pe...@scathe.pixiedemon.co.uk> wrote:
:Yup- both the punk & post-punk diaries. Damn handy. Past 1982, however,
:I'm on my own... I did have a load of music papers from around then, but
:I left them in my parents attic and they got rained on.
:Naturally, a few escaped just to remind me what I'd lost... :(
Send me the money for a plane ticket to Perth (~$A250) and the money for
packing and postage ($fuckmedead) and I'll send you my collection of NME
and Melody Maker 1982-1990.
David Gerard
<ka...@sfgoth.com> wrote:
:Joe Brenner wrote:
:> Here's a quick list of 5 great, creative things from the
:> 90s:
:> (1) The Golden Palomino's, e.g. the album "Pure".
:Haven't the Paliminoes been around since at least the 80's?
Yep. Anton Fier, I believe? has been using the name for various projects
for *many* years.
David Gerard
:From: Albatross <tho...@go2net.com>
:> I was just talking with the fiasco about how this. Music
:> has had it's doldrums in the past, but there was often a
:> legitimate underground. I dont beleive there is a creative
:> music centered subculture in this country right now. The
:> goth scene is tired. (c4 aside) Punk has no punk in it. Art
:> types of rock have no art in them, when they exist at
:> all. Jazz and Classical are almost exhausted, and often
:> suffer from the same drive to package that rock music suffer
:> from.
:It's a little ridiculous to go around asserting that music
:is dead in the nineties unless you can claim to have heard
:all of it, or at least a pretty big chunk of it.
Not necessarily. The deadness being observed is a lack of observable
productive scenes, not of talented individuals.
:Here's a quick list of 5 great, creative things from the
:90s:
:It doesn't matter how much you think you know about music
:(and I don't even claim to know all that much): there is
:always something out there you haven't tapped into yet.
There are few untapped scenes. This is because they were hunted down in the
wake of grunge by A+R men with beartraps and money.
It'll be interesting to see what they try with goth.
--
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/ AGSF Unit 0|4 http://suburbia.net/~fun/
Stop JUNK EMAIL Boycott AMAZON.COM http://mickc.home.mindspring.com/index1.htm
"rant all ya want, there are too many people here who A) can't be bothered to
think harder B) can't think harder and C) are offended by the suggestion that
they need to think harder." - Leanan Sidhe
Unknown
Gerard) wrote:
>Not necessarily. The deadness being observed is a lack of observable
>productive scenes, not of talented individuals.
I have two theories:
1)The millennium is killing new music.
2) Guitar based pop music is dead.
We'll find out which is right in a few years.
In support of the second theory, however:
There is some good electronic [1] music coming out, but if you don't
know what to listen for it 'all sounds the same' [2]
[1] Call it dance, techno, house, jungle, garage or whatever.
[2] In the same way that <generic person on the street> thinks that
or metal 'all sounds the same'.
Axel
Everything is true, even false things
- Malaclypse the Younger
<axelmaya AT globalserve >dot< net>
Joe Brenner
>On 31 Aug 98 21:39:55 GMT, do...@kzsu.Stanford.EDU (Joe Brenner) wrote:
>:From: Albatross <tho...@go2net.com>
>:> I was just talking with the fiasco about how this. Music
>:> has had it's doldrums in the past, but there was often a
>:> legitimate underground. I dont beleive there is a creative
>:> music centered subculture in this country right now. The
>:> goth scene is tired. (c4 aside) Punk has no punk in it. Art
>:> types of rock have no art in them, when they exist at
>:> all. Jazz and Classical are almost exhausted, and often
>:> suffer from the same drive to package that rock music suffer
>:> from.
>:It's a little ridiculous to go around asserting that music
>:is dead in the nineties unless you can claim to have heard
>:all of it, or at least a pretty big chunk of it.
>Not necessarily. The deadness being observed is a lack of observable
>productive scenes, not of talented individuals.
Okay, if you say so. I guess I missed that part.
But the second part of what I posted was a long list of
excellent performers that are on what is often called "the
Bay Area improv scene".
This is entirely a music scene. No favorite drugs, no
particular dress code, no dancing to speak of, and most of
the performers aren't particularly telegenic. It is
therefore pretty much immune to being picked up by MTV, but
it's certainly not dead.
>:It doesn't matter how much you think you know about music
>:(and I don't even claim to know all that much): there is
>:always something out there you haven't tapped into yet.
>There are few untapped scenes. This is because they were hunted down in the
>wake of grunge by A+R men with beartraps and money.
I still think this is really silly... maybe there's
something circular about this argument. Like, you've
unconsciously defined a "scene" as being the set of things
that are nearing the commercialization level.
Pete Scathe
>On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:12:02 +0100, Pete Scathe
><pe...@scathe.pixiedemon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I did have a load of music papers from around then, but
>:I left them in my parents attic and they got rained on.
>
>packing and postage ($fuckmedead) and I'll send you my collection of NME
>and Melody Maker 1982-1990.
>
all...
Fortunately, someone I know in Bristol has probably got sufficient
copies.
--
Pete Scathe (Next Resurgence: Sunday 11th October)
David Gerard
:f...@thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard) writes:
:>On 31 Aug 98 21:39:55 GMT, do...@kzsu.Stanford.EDU (Joe Brenner) wrote:
:>:It's a little ridiculous to go around asserting that music
:>:is dead in the nineties unless you can claim to have heard
:>:all of it, or at least a pretty big chunk of it.
:>Not necessarily. The deadness being observed is a lack of observable
:>productive scenes, not of talented individuals.
:Okay, if you say so. I guess I missed that part.
:But the second part of what I posted was a long list of
:excellent performers that are on what is often called "the
:Bay Area improv scene".
:This is entirely a music scene. No favorite drugs, no
:particular dress code, no dancing to speak of, and most of
:the performers aren't particularly telegenic. It is
:therefore pretty much immune to being picked up by MTV, but
:it's certainly not dead.
Certainly, that's a scene - i.e. there's musical communication going on,
probably a bit of a social scene attached.
:>:It doesn't matter how much you think you know about music
:>:(and I don't even claim to know all that much): there is
:>:always something out there you haven't tapped into yet.
:>There are few untapped scenes. This is because they were hunted down in the
:>wake of grunge by A+R men with beartraps and money.
:I still think this is really silly... maybe there's
:something circular about this argument. Like, you've
:unconsciously defined a "scene" as being the set of things
:that are nearing the commercialization level.
No, not at all. See above.
--
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