question for goth females
Puzzled
guy who for the last three weeks has frequented the one goth club in
my town. I'm really attracted to gothic girls and have been all my
life. In fact, I'm sort of an ex-goth myself--I still listen to Dead
Can Dance everyday, and Baudelaire and Dostoyevsky are still two of my
favorite writers.
So, when I go to this club, I go out on the dancefloor because I like
the techno beat and love to dance, and the only people interested in
dancing with me are bi/gay-type men or the occasional "normal" girl
that strays in. In fact, a lot of the girls I'm attracted to will
leave the dancefloor if I dance anywhere near them. I'm a decent
looking guy, and I even dress the part: picture a shorter, stalkier,
stronger, dark-haired version of LaCroix from Forever Knight. At any
other club l would at least chat with and probably get phone numbers
from 3 girls.
The question is: what am I doing wrong? Is it that I do not look goth
enough? Like I said, when I was younger I was a punk rocker/goth
type, and a girl I was hanging with was hit on by a socer player: she
told him he looked like a confused jock. Is that me?
Alchemy
should tell you something right there. If it really is just at that club, and
gay/bi men dance with you, perhaps you're at the wrong club, sugar. Either
that, or you have an overinflated self-image.
Alchemy
^v^"I do NOT look like death reheated. I look like death well-chilled...'" -
me! ^v^
ICQ # 15272759
(4*arctan(1/5) - arctan(1/239))/4 of Goth
http://w3.tvi.cc.nm.us/~alkimia/index2.html *new!*
Puzzled
>On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Puzzled wrote:
>
><snip>
>> The question is: what am I doing wrong? Is it that I do not look goth
>> enough?
>
>Yes.
Does that mean goth girls and goths in general are prejudiced against
normal people, even if they have a lot of the same interests?
>
>> Like I said, when I was younger I was a punk rocker/goth
>> type, and a girl I was hanging with was hit on by a socer player: she
>> told him he looked like a confused jock. Is that me?
>
>Yes.
I've looked on your page and we're not that different. I've published
prose poetry in the past and currently write on a semi-professional
basis. We both even frequent gothic clubs. The only difference is
that while you're doing D&D campaigns, I'm practicing judo.
>
>You also have an overinflated sense of your own attractivness.
Believe me, I do not have overinflated sense of my own attractiveness.
If I was younger the girls at this club would probably give me a
complex.
>
>You are also making a mistake by thinking that a dance club is the place
>to pick up chics.
>
>Before you go bitching about how mean I am, recall that you did ask the
>advice of goth females. You got what you asked for.
>
I don't think you're mean--I think you're honest.
>}..{
>Agnieszka
Lady Greycat
author.]
In article <39ce246f...@news.nb.net>, Puzzled (bakh...@yahoo.com)
says...
> I have a question for any gothic club girls out there. I'm a "normal"
> guy who for the last three weeks has frequented the one goth club in
> my town. I'm really attracted to gothic girls and have been all my
> life. In fact, I'm sort of an ex-goth myself--I still listen to Dead
> Can Dance everyday, and Baudelaire and Dostoyevsky are still two of my
> favorite writers.
That's great, but the girls can't tell that just by looking at you. Goth
or no.
>
> So, when I go to this club, I go out on the dancefloor because I like
> the techno beat and love to dance,
haha techno beat...:)
and the only people interested in
> dancing with me are bi/gay-type men or the occasional "normal" girl
> that strays in. In fact, a lot of the girls I'm attracted to will
> leave the dancefloor if I dance anywhere near them.
That's your problem.
I, for one, do not like it when a guy (or anyone) dances near me. I am a
loner dancer, and unless I know you, I won't dance with anyone. Period.
Boy or girl. I think it's too intimate a thing to do with strangers.
I HATE it when guys dance next to me and when I move away, they move
toward me. I've had to go so far as to move to the other side of the
dance floor and then leave when the guy couldn't take the hint that I
wasn't interested. I've even had to smack a few when they tried to touch
me.
I'm a decent
> looking guy, and I even dress the part: picture a shorter, stalkier,
> stronger, dark-haired version of LaCroix from Forever Knight. At any
> other club l would at least chat with and probably get phone numbers
> from 3 girls.
Ego alert.
Goth girls are not like other girls. Well, no girl is like another girl,
but most goth girls I know just don't like the whole "smoothy" act.
When a guy comes up to me and TALKS to me, I'd be more willing to dance
with him. And I'm not talking "Hey, can I buy you a drink" kind of
talking. Sure it may start out as a can I buy you a drink thing, but if
he's interesting and seems to be a bit more interested in ME rather than
getting me on to the dance floor so he can writhe all over me like an
idiot, I'll be more willing to give him my number, never mind dance with
him.
>
> The question is: what am I doing wrong? Is it that I do not look goth
> enough?
I, personally don't give a crap how goth a guy looks. Especially if it's
the overdone bad make-up/wannebe vampire/dark loner type. Eww. About as
goth as I go is good looking well dressed gay boys (or they look like gay
boys) or industrial looking guys. Most of the time, I'm interested in
guys that just look like they aren't trying to "look good", be it normal
looking guys, gothy guys or whatever.
Like I said, when I was younger I was a punk rocker/goth
> type, and a girl I was hanging with was hit on by a socer player: she
> told him he looked like a confused jock. Is that me?
Most likely not, but I think your problem is that you try too hard. That
sends out a beacon, you know. "I REALLY want someone cool to dance with
me! I'm pathetic because I have to TRY so hard!" kind of beacon. That
makes me run away.
Greycat
--
@-'-~~~~~~I am fortune's fool~~~~~~-'-@
Me: http://pretention.net/greycat
Domains: http://pretention.net - http://feverish.org
Need Email? http://webmail.pretention.net
fuzzy pink satan
fpevooyrq onpxjneqf sbe fngna:
:The question is: what am I doing wrong?
We can spot the gothgirlhunter ten miles away.
We are used to such creatures.
We avoid them whenever possible.
Or maybe you just smell funny. :>
Carrie
-[ http://ossuary.net/~skerrella/ ]-
- i'm waiting for a sign - to leave this place behind -
- where no one knows my name - apoptygma berzerk -
Puzzled
>I, for one, do not like it when a guy (or anyone) dances near me. I am a
>loner dancer, and unless I know you, I won't dance with anyone. Period.
>Boy or girl. I think it's too intimate a thing to do with strangers.
>
>I HATE it when guys dance next to me and when I move away, they move
>toward me. I've had to go so far as to move to the other side of the
>dance floor and then leave when the guy couldn't take the hint that I
>wasn't interested. I've even had to smack a few when they tried to touch
>me.
Now we're getting somewhere. Let's say I go to a "normal" dance club.
If I'm attracted to a girl, I dance near her. If she likes me, she
opens up a little, we move toward each otherm and dance. Then, while
we're dancing we throw on big smiles for each other, then she may hug
me when we're done, and then we talk, drink. It's like a ritual.
And, yes, this happened to me at a goth club once, though with a
non-Goth girl.
I would feel funny walking right up to any girl out of the blue who
didn't look at me, smile at me, or talk to me first. And, the last
thing I would ever want is someone to dance with me or pay attention
to me who doesn't want to, and no, I don't want to feel up strangers.
>
>
>I'm a decent
>> looking guy, and I even dress the part: picture a shorter, stalkier,
>> stronger, dark-haired version of LaCroix from Forever Knight. At any
>> other club l would at least chat with and probably get phone numbers
>> from 3 girls.
>
>Ego alert.
I only say I'm decent looking because people don't come up to me and
tell me i'm ugly. I don't really look like LaCroix from Froever
Night. I'm way too short and way too wide and my hair's black. But,
when I look in the mirror, that's the best gothic comparison. As for
the phone number, yes, when I go out, I normally try to meet girls and
talk to them. But, trust me, no ego alert.
>
>Goth girls are not like other girls. Well, no girl is like another girl,
>but most goth girls I know just don't like the whole "smoothy" act.
Believe me, i'm no smoothy, maybe warm and friendly at best. I just
wouldn't do that.
>
>When a guy comes up to me and TALKS to me, I'd be more willing to dance
>with him. And I'm not talking "Hey, can I buy you a drink" kind of
>talking. Sure it may start out as a can I buy you a drink thing, but if
>he's interesting and seems to be a bit more interested in ME rather than
>getting me on to the dance floor so he can writhe all over me like an
>idiot, I'll be more willing to give him my number, never mind dance with
>him.
The only thing I say to girls is "hi," and I take it from there. And,
I don't want to writhe all over anyone. Call me old-fashioned, but as
a man, I just wanna dance facing in the general direction of a female.
>>
>> The question is: what am I doing wrong? Is it that I do not look goth
>> enough?
>
>I, personally don't give a crap how goth a guy looks. Especially if it's
>the overdone bad make-up/wannebe vampire/dark loner type. Eww. About as
>goth as I go is good looking well dressed gay boys (or they look like gay
>boys) or industrial looking guys. Most of the time, I'm interested in
>guys that just look like they aren't trying to "look good", be it normal
>looking guys, gothy guys or whatever.
>
>Like I said, when I was younger I was a punk rocker/goth
>> type, and a girl I was hanging with was hit on by a socer player: she
>> told him he looked like a confused jock. Is that me?
The only difference between now and when I used to date/hang out with
goth chicks (yes, i actually have before when i was a goth/punk type,
that's why this really puzzles me) is that I've shucked the combat
boots, black trench, and small amount of jewelry, maybe my hair's a
little shorter.
chemt...@my-deja.com
> :The question is: what am I doing wrong?
>
Goth clubs aren't "pick-up" bars. At least from what I've seen. That's
what I kinda like about them...I go there and tend to make friends
rather than new lovers. If you're giving off those kinds of signals,
then you may scare people away. And in a goth club where people tend to
dance alone, trying to dance with someone will give them "pick-up"
signals. Even if you're really cute, in a goth bar you are not likely
to be welcome with that kind of approach. Rather, engage in a good
conversation with someone. That's far more impressive...
Make lots of friends; if you're a decent person, the lovers will soon
follow.
Camille
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Brian
<gre...@pretention.net> wrote:
>I, for one, do not like it when a guy (or anyone) dances near me. I am a
>loner dancer, and unless I know you, I won't dance with anyone. Period.
>Boy or girl. I think it's too intimate a thing to do with strangers.
>
>I HATE it when guys dance next to me and when I move away, they move
>toward me. I've had to go so far as to move to the other side of the
>dance floor and then leave when the guy couldn't take the hint that I
>wasn't interested. I've even had to smack a few when they tried to touch
>me.
Oh yes. I totally agree.
I went to an 80's themed club in NYC with some of my girl friends..
yuppie soho heaven it was. For some reason all of these men decided
to rub their stank crotches against my friends; I'm sure they feel
that women are pieces of meat that appreciate this treatment.
Let me tell you.. I can't imagine anything more attractive than a
total stranger bumping and grinding his crotch against your uninviting
side. #1 It's an invasion of personal space and #2 you're a stranger!
Everyone remembers the lessons mommy and daddy gave about strangers,
yeah? Why should girls have to unlearn this lesson because some horny
neanderthal had one beer too many?
One of my girl friends got so angry, she decided it was time for
revenge. She reached into her purse and whipped out the MAC "Jet"
lipstick and covered one of the perpetrators back and ass with it.
The poor dullard didn't even know he was marked with a Black P (for
pig).
I felt sorry for said ruined lipstick. However, it died for a good
cause.
BIG PIMPIN' IN NYC,
Brian
L'histoire du Posse: http://www.crackho.com/~bananas/
webcam: http://www.crackho.com/~bananas/webcam.html
o/~Ebony and ivory, live together in perfect harmony.
Side by side on my piano keyboard...
Oh, lordbiran, why don't we?
RazorJAK, the Once & Future Crankygoth
>The question is: what am I doing wrong? Is it that I do not look goth
>enough? Like I said, when I was younger I was a punk rocker/goth
>type, and a girl I was hanging with was hit on by a socer player: she
>told him he looked like a confused jock. Is that me?
Let me give you the advice I give to the clueless fratboys who try to
do the same thing you're doing when they come to the club where I'ma
bouncer.
While the girls are on the dancefloor is not the time to be trying to
hit on them. On average a goth club is not like a so-called normal
meat market danceclub. The girls are dancing because they actually
want to dance. They're not out there "shaking their plumage" trying
to get some drunk date-raper to notice them.
You want to meet someone? TALK to them. (And when I say TALK I mean
TALK not shmooze. Shmoozing will get you nowhere.)
But the most important thing to remember is this.
If you go in just expecting sex. You might as well just go back to
your "normal" dancehall. And judging from the way you seem to keep
count ( "at any other club I'd get three girls numbers" ) that is what
you're after. It's quality not quantity. Stop trying to get notchs
on your bedpost.
RazorJAK
( who can't even count how many times he's had to "cool down" romeos
like yourself)
--
"Fear is an acid which is pumped into one's atmosphere. It causes
mental, moral and spiritual asphyxiation, and sometimes death; death
to energy and all growth." Horace Fletcher
-
Quote 82 of 1632 of the Revolving Sigfile O' Doom
-
http://www.pagans.org/~razorjak
<ICQ 5300005>-@-<AIM & Yahoo RazorJAK>
Puzzled
>
>Not all the time, but at goth clubs, generally speaking, YES. What did
>you expect? You walk into a little goth haven when goths can finally be
>surrounded only by other people who look goth, and you disturb the
>atmosphere by looking normal and expect people to like it?
You answered my question. The fact that you're so defensive also
answers my question. I was merely pointing out that 2 people have
things in common and don't have things incommon. I was checking to
see if goths were cliquish and pretentious, andyou're showing me that
yes they are.
>
>There you go with your "trying too hard" attitude again.
>fucking know me. And why do you assume that D&D and Judo are mutually
>exclusive? I don't write everything about my life on my page. For
>example, I don't write about my Judo classes. Or the Master/slave
>lifestyle. Or the time I visited my boyfriend in the mental hospital
>when he was under observation for having homicidal thoughts and realized
>how crappy mental hospitals are. Or what I look like. Or how I earn my
>living. Or what I'm studying.
>
>In short, you have no fucking idea of what I am like, and don't even
>presume to say that we are alike before you have met me and known me for
>a couple of years.
>
>> >You also have an overinflated sense of your own attractivness.
>>
>> Believe me, I do not have overinflated sense of my own attractiveness.
>> If I was younger the girls at this club would probably give me a
>> complex.
>
>No, you do have an overinflated sense of your own attractiveness.
>
>You seem to have this idea that goth girls should be flocking to you
>like moths to a flame or something. It is not happening. Therefore,
>your estimation of you attractiveness and your actual attractiveness are
>not equal.
>
>> I don't think you're mean--I think you're honest.
>
>I hope you're not trying to pick *me* up. I wasn't joking about the
>homicidal boyfriend.
you won't have to worry that, believe me. :)
>
>}..{
>Agnieszka
>
>-------------
>Indulgence (random rambles and a toy)
>http://pages.nyu.edu/~ak347
>
rad...@earthlink.net
Puzzled wrote:
>
> I have a question for any gothic club girls out there. I'm a "normal"
> guy who for the last three weeks has frequented the one goth club in
> my town. I'm really attracted to gothic girls and have been all my
> life. In fact, I'm sort of an ex-goth myself--I still listen to Dead
> Can Dance everyday, and Baudelaire and Dostoyevsky are still two of my
> favorite writers.
>
> So, when I go to this club, I go out on the dancefloor because I like
> the techno beat and love to dance, and the only people interested in
> dancing with me are bi/gay-type men or the occasional "normal" girl
> that strays in. In fact, a lot of the girls I'm attracted to will
> leave the dancefloor if I dance anywhere near them. I'm a decent
> looking guy, and I even dress the part: picture a shorter, stalkier,
> stronger, dark-haired version of LaCroix from Forever Knight. At any
> other club l would at least chat with and probably get phone numbers
> from 3 girls.
>
> The question is: what am I doing wrong? Is it that I do not look goth
> enough? Like I said, when I was younger I was a punk rocker/goth
> type, and a girl I was hanging with was hit on by a socer player: she
> told him he looked like a confused jock. Is that me?
OK, lets break this down. Youve been to this club for three weeks and
haven't picked anyone up yet. I'm assuming, therefore, youre there for
the purpose of picking up girls. If you were there for the music, you
be more concerned with dancing, and less concerned with finding someone
to dance with. I'm guesing that youre probably too agressive and
impatient. Not to mention that in normal clubs, lots of people are
there to get laid. In subcultural venues, theres a pretty good chance
that they actually want to dance. Plus, theres the issue of the "techno
beats". Either youre in the wrong club, or you really don't know much
about music. This could lead to some rather embarassing body rockin'.
Basically, women can pretty much tell if youre there because you want to
have a good time, enjoy the music and so on , or if youre there on a
pussy hunt. You pretty much come off as B. They don't like that
Finally, I don't know what you actually look like, and it shouldn't
really matter a whole lot, but if there's more than three adjectives
between you and who you "look like", you don't look like them.
Jim Dugan
Puzzled
shown their true colors. Now that I know how things really are, I'll
keep it all in perspective, hanging around with my own kind where I'm
best appreciated and leaving well enough alone.
Lady Greycat
says...
That's a serious no no.
If you ARE on a pussy hunt, then yes, you will be disappointed. But if
you want to make friends, even relationships, you need to have the balls
to talk to people, instead of doing what all the other annoying normal
people do when going to a goth club.
Aconite
Puzzled wrote:
,
> stronger, dark-haired version of LaCroix from Forever Knight. At any
> other club l would at least chat with and probably get phone numbers
> from 3 girls.
>
> The question is: what am I doing wrong? Is it that I do not look goth
> enough? Like I said, when I was younger I was a punk rocker/goth
> type, and a girl I was hanging with was hit on by a socer player: she
> told him he looked like a confused jock. Is that me?
I imagine the combination of not wanting to be a cheap pick up, where
you keep a tally of how many phone numbers you pick up in a night, and
the air of desperation and general letchiness you give off (which is
evident throughout your post) are the main reasons they're not
interested in the slightest.
Aconite
--
Narcissism - http://www.darkwave.org.uk/~aconite
"I've just got one purpose in life.
To explode of course."
Knox Velour
Knox Velour
>shown their true colors. Now that I know how things really are, I'll
>keep it all in perspective, hanging around with my own kind where I'm
>best appreciated and leaving well enough alone.
>
>
>
Someone's a little overly sensitive. I'm sure we were reading the same posts
and what I got out of it was to be aware of how you come across to people and
that you should take the time to get to know someone instead of trying to just
dance with some stranger on the dance floor. Usually when I find someone I'm
attracted to, I think about what it is about her I like, then I compliment her
on it. That opens up a line of communication, gets a conversation started, then
if the two of you hit it off, you ask her if she'd like to dance. I've made
quite a few good friends that way, and some of those have become lovers. That's
my approach anyway, I'd like to hear what some of the ladies in the group have
to say about it.
SaraiCat
fi...@sea.cadet.net wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:47:46 GMT, Lady Greycat
> <gre...@pretention.net> wrote:
>
> >I, for one, do not like it when a guy (or anyone) dances near me. I am a
> >loner dancer, and unless I know you, I won't dance with anyone. Period.
> >Boy or girl. I think it's too intimate a thing to do with strangers.
> >
> >I HATE it when guys dance next to me and when I move away, they move
> >toward me. I've had to go so far as to move to the other side of the
> >dance floor and then leave when the guy couldn't take the hint that I
> >wasn't interested. I've even had to smack a few when they tried to touch
> >me.
>
> Oh yes. I totally agree.
>
> I went to an 80's themed club in NYC with some of my girl friends..
> yuppie soho heaven it was. For some reason all of these men decided
> to rub their stank crotches against my friends; I'm sure they feel
> that women are pieces of meat that appreciate this treatment.
I have a prejudice against "normal" men in goth clubs for this very
reason. It isn't because I hate all normal people, or because I'm not
attracted to non-goths. It's simply that 99% of the time I feel harassed
at a club, it's at the hands (sometimes literally) of a normal guy. I
can't imagine that any girl *likes* that treatment.
There have been plenty of times that I've had to yell at a guy (as in,
"get the fuck off of me"), run away, give an "accidental" kick or
elbowing, or engage a friend to play my boyfriend/girlfriend. It isn't
fun, and it's made me wary. Generally, I know what kind of guys do this
to me, and it isn't the lanky boy in the skirt, or the guy with the
mohawk. It's the guy in white sneakers and a baseball cap.
It's a prejudice, but IME it's an accurate one.
-Sarai
--
"All you do is head straight for the grave, a face just covers a
skull a while. Stretch that skull-cover and smile." -Jack Kerouac
http://www.synaesthetic.net/~saraicat/
zentariana
(SaraiCat) shared with us all:
>There have been plenty of times that I've had to yell at a guy (as in,
>"get the fuck off of me"), run away, give an "accidental" kick or
>elbowing, or engage a friend to play my boyfriend/girlfriend. It isn't
>fun, and it's made me wary. Generally, I know what kind of guys do this
>to me, and it isn't the lanky boy in the skirt, or the guy with the
>mohawk. It's the guy in white sneakers and a baseball cap.
>
>It's a prejudice, but IME it's an accurate one.
"where can i go to get treated well?!"
just stay the fuck away from the "good" kids.
~becky~
----
"let's play something else for a change
hey i know why don't i poke out my eyes
for you over and over and over and over again?"
_midgets with guns_ by Pain.
Puzzled
Lady Greycat,
You've been friendly. Thank you. I apologize if I came off as
whiney, but I'm glad everyone has been honest and shown me the real
picture. I'm smart enough to direct my energies where they're put to
their best use, and the goth scene isn't one of them. I asked for
advice on how to fit into a new place and got vented on by a crazy
woman who not only told me that goths were prejudiced (I was hoping
they all weren't and surely some, like you, aren't), but also
threatened to get her mental patient boyfriend after me for saying we
had some things in common. And, for the record, the word "pussyhunt"
never once came out of my mouth.
This group reinforces a lot of stereotypes, like that a normal person
doesn't even belong in a goth club, and next Sunday, my nose will be
where it belongs--watching the NFL.
Even More Puzzled
On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:37:23 GMT, Lady Greycat
<gre...@pretention.net> wrote:
>In article <39ce7d1...@news.nb.net>, Puzzled (bakh...@yahoo.com)
>says...
>> Thanks for everyone's advice, I'm glad everyone's been honest and
>> shown their true colors. Now that I know how things really are, I'll
>> keep it all in perspective, hanging around with my own kind where I'm
>> best appreciated and leaving well enough alone.
>>
fuzzy pink satan
fpevooyrq onpxjneqf sbe fngna:
:You answered my question. The fact that you're so defensive also
:answers my question.
You really don't get it, do you.
[statement. not question.]
:I was merely pointing out that 2 people have
:things in common and don't have things incommon. I was checking to
:see if goths were cliquish and pretentious, andyou're showing me that
:yes they are.
Yes, many of us are.
Carrie (duh.)
pixie
^*^I have a prejudice against "normal" men in goth clubs for this very
^*^reason. It isn't because I hate all normal people, or because I'm not
^*^attracted to non-goths. It's simply that 99% of the time I feel harassed
^*^at a club, it's at the hands (sometimes literally) of a normal guy. I
^*^can't imagine that any girl *likes* that treatment.
Same here. I remember back in the days of the Bank, one of my friends
literally throwing a "normal" guy through the side doors because he
was drunk, harassing me, and would not stop grabbing at my breasts,
despite me moving away from him about 1700 times.
I can't think of many goths/regulars/whatever who have pulled the shit
with me that "normals" have... I'm SURE there are sleazy goth people,
just as I am sure there are plenty of nice, "normal" people who just
hang out and enjoy the music and atmosphere. It's just that when you
play the number ratio, my negative experiences have been more frequent
with "normals," who were at the club because they were looking for the
easy "sexy death chicks."
^*^There have been plenty of times that I've had to yell at a guy (as in,
^*^"get the fuck off of me"), run away, give an "accidental" kick or
^*^elbowing, or engage a friend to play my boyfriend/girlfriend. It isn't
^*^fun, and it's made me wary. Generally, I know what kind of guys do this
^*^to me, and it isn't the lanky boy in the skirt, or the guy with the
^*^mohawk. It's the guy in white sneakers and a baseball cap.
^*^
^*^It's a prejudice, but IME it's an accurate one.
Agreed.
I hate to say it, I hate to feel like "I want to go to clubs with
dress codes, goths only, etc" but there have been too many times I've
been stalked around, "hey, hey you look like the girl from the
craft!" "Are those your real tits? Show 'em to me" Stuff like that -
just too many times.
Though the fact is - anyone who is going out of their way to try to
get numbers of chicks, pick up a woman, whatever... is probably trying
too hard, and this won't ever work well, regardless of your
subcultural identity, be it goth, punk, rapper, yuppie, or whatever
you are.
pixie
"Goblins will feast on your buttocks! Your gums will
become diseased and your teeth will turn to glue... GLUE!"
fuzzy pink satan
:Generally, I know what kind of guys do this
:to me, and it isn't the lanky boy in the skirt, or the guy with the
:mohawk. It's the guy in white sneakers and a baseball cap.
:
:It's a prejudice, but IME it's an accurate one.
I agree (also IME). I was sitting at one of the tables near the
door when the time to depart was nearing. I was sweaty, tired,
half drunk, and eager to shower and get some cool air on my face.
"WHY ARE YOU SITTING DOWN?"
Huh..?
"Uh, because I'm leaving shortly."
"OH. I PARTY TIL I CAN'T PARTY NO MORE. LIVE IT UP."
I nod. Whatever. Like I give a shit.
"DON'T YOU HAVE FRIENDS?"
"What the fuck are you talking about?"
"YOU SHOULD PARTY TIL ITS TIME TO GO."
"Whatever."
"SHOW ME WHO YOUR FRIENDS ARE."
"Excuse me?"
"I SAID SHOW ME WHO YOUR FRIENDS ARE.
POINT THEM OUT TO ME."
"Fuck off."
"SHOW ME WHO YOUR FRIENDS ARE!!"
"Leave. Me. Alone. NOW."
He stares at me for a minute, mouth agape, (how
dare I not fall at his feet, my cleavage a-jigglin'?).
Then he stomps away waving his hands in dismissal
at me and swearing up a storm.
That's hardly extreme, but add in the fact that he
kept getting closer, and closer, and closer, and his
breath and clothes reeked of cheap beer, and still
closer, and closer, and closer, and his hands looked
as if they were about to reach out and touch someone,
and..
..guess what he looked like. ;>
Carrie
fuzzy pink satan
fpevooyrq onpxjneqf sbe fngna:
:Lady Greycat,
:
:You've been friendly. Thank you. I apologize if I came off as
:whiney, but I'm glad everyone has been honest and shown me the real
:picture.
Ah, then the free hints weren't wasted on deaf ears.
:I'm smart enough to direct my energies where they're put to
:their best use, and the goth scene isn't one of them.
Now if only _every_ "I am hott for goth chix!" type would
say the same!
:I asked for
:advice on how to fit into a new place and got vented on by a crazy
:woman who not only told me that goths were prejudiced
Is that right? I remember quite differently. ;>
:(I was hoping
:they all weren't and surely some, like you, aren't),
I hear kissie noises.
:but also
:threatened to get her mental patient boyfriend after me for saying we
:had some things in common.
I am so glad I won't be seeing you at "A Goth Club Near" me,
ya lyin' shit-disturber.
:And, for the record, the word "pussyhunt"
:never once came out of my mouth.
It doesn't have to. ;>
:This group reinforces a lot of stereotypes, like that a normal person
:doesn't even belong in a goth club,
"One of these things is not like the other.."
I admit it! I guess I'm prejudiced! The thought of someone
attending a "goth club" when they have no actual interest in
the scene, just the women, pisses me off.
Whether they're hogging the bar, clogging the walkways,
being excessively loud and boisterous, w00tw00ting on
the dance floor with their glowshit, or just STARING at everyone,
it is clear that they're only there for the freakshow (or to get
poontaaayng).
I might not be a rabid clubber, but when I do go out, I don't
want to be bothered with that sort of thing. Neither does anyone
else I know.
:and next Sunday, my nose will be
:where it belongs--watching the NFL.
And good wins out over evil once again.
Happy day,
Carrie (who says you missed the "reply via email" button.)
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
Greycat <gre...@pretention.net> wrote:
> [This followup was posted to alt.gothic and a copy was sent to the cited
> author.]
>
> In article <39ce246f...@news.nb.net>, Puzzled (bakh...@yahoo.com)
> says...
> > So, when I go to this club, I go out on the dancefloor because I like
> > the techno beat and love to dance,
>
> haha techno beat...:)
Actually, quite a bit of the newer "g*th" stuff that I've been exposed
to is revoltingly techno-like. 4 on the floor kicks, 16th-note hihats,
snare/handclap on 2 and 4 coupled with not so much as a nod to a groove
or a melody. Yup.
...And to think that I get strange looks for asking for DM, SoM and
FotN...
> and the only people interested in
> > dancing with me are bi/gay-type men or the occasional "normal" girl
> > that strays in. In fact, a lot of the girls I'm attracted to will
> > leave the dancefloor if I dance anywhere near them.
>
> That's your problem.
>
> I, for one, do not like it when a guy (or anyone) dances near me. I am a
> loner dancer, and unless I know you, I won't dance with anyone. Period.
> Boy or girl. I think it's too intimate a thing to do with strangers.
I quite agree. While I've seen the "pick-up-on-the-dance-floor" thing
happen in the past, I wouldn't say that it was anything like the norm.
People don't like being danced at when they're on the floor. Either
they're dancing with whoever they went out there with or they're dancing
on their own and don't really want to be boethered.
Me, I keep people away by being a flailing jumble of arms. Even my
beloved keeps her distance on the floor...
Mr Q. Z. D.
----
Drinker, systems administrator, wannabe writer, musician and all-round bastard.
"Hey now, hey nonny-nonny, singest thou to me this corrosion."
lara
"Puzzled" <bakh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:39ce7565...@news.nb.net...
>
> >
> >Not all the time, but at goth clubs, generally speaking, YES. What did
> >you expect? You walk into a little goth haven when goths can finally be
> >surrounded only by other people who look goth, and you disturb the
> >atmosphere by looking normal and expect people to like it?
>
> things in common and don't have things incommon. I was checking to
> see if goths were cliquish and pretentious, andyou're showing me that
> yes they are.
>
My, my - and of course, being prattish is obviously the best way to pick up
girls, be they goth or not.
Lara (your ego is astounding. I didn't know you could see an id from space.)
--
I am a misanthrope who likes her computer too much.
http://www.crosswinds.net/~trotski
http://www.members.ebay.com.au/aboutme/foxtrotski
Edvamp
Remember, there is no sex in the Champagn Room.
Ever and Always
Edvamp
Perkygoth Supreme
Edvamp
>their best use, and the goth scene isn't one of them.
Good, more sexxy deth chyx for the rest of us!
Lisiblac
chemt...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Goth clubs aren't "pick-up" bars. At least from what I've seen. That's
> what I kinda like about them...I go there and tend to make friends
> rather than new lovers. If you're giving off those kinds of signals,
> then you may scare people away. And in a goth club where people tend to
> dance alone, trying to dance with someone will give them "pick-up"
> signals. Even if you're really cute, in a goth bar you are not likely
> to be welcome with that kind of approach. Rather, engage in a good
> conversation with someone. That's far more impressive...
Well, goth clubs are not *not* pick-up bars either. The difference is
that people just go there with their own friends, whom, sometimes, they
also end up picking up, hence the intense drama factor surrounding most
goth clubs. :p
I totally agree with Camille on the dancing thing though. Trying to
hump a woman you don't know on the dance floor is not an effective way
to get her to like you in any sense of the word. *Particularly* if you
do not have the outward appearance of being part of the 'scene'. This
may seem exclusionary and closed-minded at first, but I'll tell you why
we're wary: There are often men who come to goth clubs with the sole
purpose of picking up 'weird chicks' because for some reason they think
that women who enjoy wearing pvc or what have you are 1) automatically
easy and 2) automatically into BDSM. So when they get a bug up their ass
to have kinky sex, they go shopping for us. This is SLEAZY and
INSULTING. So, Puzzled-in-wherever-you-are, while I'm not saying that's
the kind of guy you are, that's the kind of shit we're used to dealing
with. I've dated plenty of ungothy men whom I've met at cafe's, book
signings, museums, and, yes, clubs too. But they've been friends first
then lovers, not the other way around. Talk to people at the club, men
and women, make friends. If the people you talk to decide you're not a
jerk, then, presto, you're in. This works with most people, goths or
not.
Lisiblac
Erika V.
Lisi...@home.com
"If life hands you mushrooms, sautee them and eat them with rice." -
Bob
Puzzled
Thanks for being nice. :) FYI--I've never grabbed anyone's breasts
who didn't want me to, I've never gone up and rubbed my crotch off an
unwilling stranger, and I've never forced myself on anyone. In fact,
I've stood up for women in situations like those. And, for the
record, I'm not a white-shoe, baseball hat guy, I'm a
medieval/renaissance scholar who has been friends with, dated, and
hung out with a number of goths in my time and very shortly considered
doing it again.
Puzzled
On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:26:15 -0400, pixie <ei...@mindspring.com>
wrote:
>On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:46:22 -0400, sara...@synaesthetic.remove.net
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
sker...@ossuary.net wrote:
> That's hardly extreme, but add in the fact that he
> kept getting closer, and closer, and closer, and his
> breath and clothes reeked of cheap beer, and still
> closer, and closer, and closer, and his hands looked
> as if they were about to reach out and touch someone,
> and..
>
> ..guess what he looked like. ;>
Regardless of what he looked or sounded like, I think that he was hoping
for a little bit too much. IME, pickups aren't often an instantaneous
thing. They involve the parties concerned meeting in the [insert venue
where courtship rituals occur here] deciding they like the look of one
another and exploring the idea of going home together on the basis of
social activities subsequently engaged in (as an incipient "couple"
[1]). These activities could be drinking, conversing, dancing,
whatever, but the crux of the matter is that they will be engaged in
over the length of time required for both parties to make a decision.
Sounds clinical, I know, but that's the way I see/have experienced it.
Mr Q. Z. D.
[1] - _You_ know what I mean.
Brian
(SaraiCat) wrote:
>I have a prejudice against "normal" men in goth clubs for this very
>reason. It isn't because I hate all normal people, or because I'm not
>attracted to non-goths. It's simply that 99% of the time I feel harassed
>at a club, it's at the hands (sometimes literally) of a normal guy. I
>can't imagine that any girl *likes* that treatment.
Perhaps these people that like to harass women feel it's okay to
molest, stroke, or fondle a female because "bitches in black lipstick"
are sexy. Many goth women tend to dress in a provocative manner
(corsets, stockings, tight cat suits, etc.), but this does not give
the boy in the hockey jersey the right to put his paws all over a girl
like an octopus protecting its garden.
>There have been plenty of times that I've had to yell at a guy (as in,
>"get the fuck off of me"), run away, give an "accidental" kick or
>elbowing, or engage a friend to play my boyfriend/girlfriend.
I played that role for you once before didn't I? I was so fierce!
It isn't
>fun, and it's made me wary. Generally, I know what kind of guys do this
>to me, and it isn't the lanky boy in the skirt, or the guy with the
>mohawk. It's the guy in white sneakers and a baseball cap.
Fear is an omnipresent behavior from birth. It's a gift given to us
to help us in a situation that we may not otherwise be able to deal
with. It's what and who we are afraid of that's learned. Judging
from the past experiences you have described, I think that is totally
understandable.
>It's a prejudice, but IME it's an accurate one.
I don't think there is anything wrong with having a prejudice. There
is no denying that we all have them.
However, it is how those prejudices are acted on is what is important.
From what you said in your post, I do not believe you have a problem
with that at all.
Jack
"SaraiCat" <sara...@synaesthetic.remove.net> wrote in message
news:saraicat-240...@dialn-async229.dial.net.nyu.edu...
<snip>
> I have a prejudice against "normal" men in goth clubs for this very
> reason. It isn't because I hate all normal people, or because I'm not
> attracted to non-goths. It's simply that 99% of the time I feel harassed
> at a club, it's at the hands (sometimes literally) of a normal guy. I
> can't imagine that any girl *likes* that treatment.
>
> "get the fuck off of me"), run away, give an "accidental" kick or
> fun, and it's made me wary. Generally, I know what kind of guys do this
> to me, and it isn't the lanky boy in the skirt, or the guy with the
> mohawk. It's the guy in white sneakers and a baseball cap.
>
*Quite* accurate, definitely. I'm not a girl so the getting hit on and
harassed isn't something that I encounter directly, but since the majority
of my friends tend to be female, and since I'm a big guy, I tend to
periodically be the person who winds up being in the position of telling
guys like that to take a hike and stop bugging whichever girl they're
bugging.
And frankly, almost *all* of those guys have been (invariably drunk)
normals. (The exceptions mostly being a few guys who couldn't seem to grasp
the whole concept of "broken up" and the meaning of the words, "She doesn't
want to see you anymore".)
--
-Jack-
(Who just got digital cable, and was therefore
up all night last night watching movies.)
"Death, it's not just for breakfast anymore."
Tigress
pixie <ei...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:nh6tss4sjukt5vu9p...@4ax.com...
> "Goblins will feast on your buttocks! Your gums will
> become diseased and your teeth will turn to glue... GLUE!"
This is funny. Where does this quote come from?
--
Katherine Dunn
kdh...@netzero.net
Handler of Tigress
Tigress's Lair -- http://www.crosswinds.net/~drksdr
Tigress.com -- http://eyeofthetigress.tripod.com
Sabbat Justice -- http://www.crosswinds.net/~sabbatjustice
exile
} You answered my question. The fact that you're so defensive also
} answers my question. I was merely pointing out that 2 people have
} things in common and don't have things incommon. I was checking to
} see if goths were cliquish and pretentious, andyou're showing me that
What are you looking for? Are you planning on resigning normalcy if you
meet that "special someone?"
exile
} Thanks for everyone's advice, I'm glad everyone's been honest and
} shown their true colors. Now that I know how things really are, I'll
} keep it all in perspective, hanging around with my own kind where I'm
} best appreciated and leaving well enough alone.
You missed the point
Tigress
First of all, gothic females are generally more intelligent and empathetic
than "normal" females. Their interests usually go beyond clothing, makeup,
and boys, so they are generally at the club to enjoy the music and talk with
their like-minded friends (or argue with differently-mind friends). They can
also see a come-on a mile away and can tell when you are not being yourself.
They also tend to shy away from "overly friendly" people for a variety of
reasons.
As an example, I present a little of my experience.
I was what you would call a "closet girlfriend" (term coined by personal
hero Joanie Laurer/Chyna). What that meant is that I would have boyfriends,
but we couldn't tell anyone that we were together because it would be
embarrassing to the boy. Having high academic prowess, a lot of boys would
want to go out with me for the sole reason that they thought that they could
get answers off of me or get me to do their homework. Wanting the boys to
like me for me, I would often subconsciously "dumb down" myself so that the
boys wouldn't be threatened by a girl that could outdo them in about any
subject, especially in areas of math and science. But when I got tired of
having to play dumb, the "normal" boys didn't like me because I would wreck
the curve or make them look bad. But the "alternative" guys (we never had a
Goth subculture) appreciated it and we would have a pretty good time hanging
out together.
From that time, I tend to shun "normal" guys because they generally just
want another notch on their scorecard instead of conversing about R. L.
Stine being the teenager's Stephan King or how Japanese cartoons are so much
better than American. I find that Goth (and my NotAGoth SO) bois generally
enjoy an intelligent girl, so I am more receptive to them.
BTW, if some guy came up to me on the dance floor and starting humping my
leg like a horny Rottweiler, I would knock his fucking head off. Unless you
ask me to dance, you better stay away from me.
Nick/Yaruar
> Thanks for your input, Agnieska. A few responses:
>
> >On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Puzzled wrote:
> >
> ><snip>
> >> The question is: what am I doing wrong? Is it that I do not look goth
> >> enough?
> >
> >Yes.
>
> Does that mean goth girls and goths in general are prejudiced against
> normal people, even if they have a lot of the same interests?
Unfortunately...... It's amazing how many people who don't know me look
down at me when they see me spruced up for work ;-) ALthough not as bad
as when I was in the crusty scene when people would avoid me when I was in
a suit interviewing for a research project.......
THere is probably a sense of distrust in any 'outsider' community for
those who don't choose to cross a line... it's sad really....
Nick/Yaruar
Fashion is something so ugly that it has to be changed every 15 minutes.
jennie
>life. In fact, I'm sort of an ex-goth myself--I still listen to Dead
>Can Dance everyday, and Baudelaire and Dostoyevsky are still two of my
>favorite writers.
I've never been terribly into Dostyevsky myself, and I've never
heard him mentioned as an indication of 'gothness'... but I think I can
see what you're trying to say. ;) I take it you feel that you can
identify with the goths you meet in clubs, but that they don't make that
connection about you.
>So, when I go to this club, I go out on the dancefloor because I like
>the techno beat and love to dance, and the only people interested in
Are there a lot of goths at this club? Personally, I wouldn't
go near anywhere that played techno (it's just the antithesis of the music
I like), but I understand that the scene varies in different places, and
that some clubs play a big variety of stuff. However, I wouldn't be
surprised if a lot of goths left the dancefloor in this case because of
the music rather than because of particular people. Music like that tends
to be popular on the fashionable side of the gay scene, so perhaps that's
why you find more men wanting to dance with you then.
>that strays in. In fact, a lot of the girls I'm attracted to will
>leave the dancefloor if I dance anywhere near them. I'm a decent
If you're sure that they're leaving because of you, you
probably need to think about your body language in those instances, and
what it might be conveying to them. Generally, we have to rely on physical
signals for communication when dancing. It's hard to express, that way,
your identification with goths or the fact you might be interested in
talking rather than just outright coming on to someone. Goth women are
generally used to being hit on by non-goths on dancefloors, and often the
experience is not a good one. Personally, I'm happy to dance with anyone
who respects my space, doesn't get in the way of the movements I want to
make and isn't too pushy (ie: doesn't do things like trying to dance in
between me and a friend), but on numerous occasions I've had non-goth men
try to grab hold of me while I'm dancing, which is just not on, and
certainly won't endear them to me. Even if that's not your style, you may
have to take extra care to signal that it's not your style. You might be
best dancing beside someone and occasionally glancing at her admiringly,
rather than dancing opposite her; that will tend to demonstrate that
you're interested but aren't likely to grab at her or anything, and by
giving her more space to avoid you you're making it less likely that
she'll feel the need to. If she's interested, she can always return your
glances.
>looking guy, and I even dress the part: picture a shorter, stalkier,
>stronger, dark-haired version of LaCroix from Forever Knight. At any
I haven't seen the programme in question, so I'm afraid the
description doesn't mean much to me, but what I would suggest here is that
looking more like a goth doesn't mean that you're not giving off the
physical signals of some other subculture. We all adjust our day to day
body language to fit in with those around us; there may be a lot of subtle
aspects to your behaviour which make you seem alien among goths. See,
every now and then non-goth guys do dress up to make an impression, but it
tends to show, and then, because that gives an impression of falseness, it
just makes people warier. I think that the only thing you can do here is
try to relax, maybe hang around these clubs and these people when you're
not particularly looking to flirt with anyone, so that you'll pick up on
their patterns of behaviour and start to look more natural.
>other club l would at least chat with and probably get phone numbers
>from 3 girls.
The goth scene varies from place to place, but you may find
that goth women are just more wary about contact with strangers in
general, and especially about things like giving out phone numbers. That's
normal in some areas of society but completely abnormal in others.
>enough? Like I said, when I was younger I was a punk rocker/goth
>type, and a girl I was hanging with was hit on by a socer player: she
>told him he looked like a confused jock. Is that me?
There may be an aspect of that going on here. There may also
be an aspect of you simply looking too desperate - I don't mean to offend
you, because you seem like a decent person from this post, but it's a
problem anyone can experience when really interested in someone or
something which seems unobtainable. Be careful not to look like you're
just out to find a goth woman, any goth woman. Generally speaking, people
like to feel special; you might have more success if you seem less
available. Enjoy the dancing, because it sounds like that's fun for you in
itself, but when you're not dancing, take it easy, concentrate on being
available for conversation more than for flirting; if you start getting to
know a few regulars at the club, you'll soon stop looking like an
outsider.
Jennie
--
Jennie Kermode jen...@innocent.com
Webpages now updated at: http://www.triffid.demon.co.uk/jennie
Back on news. Not yet back on mail. ETA for mail four days.
siani evans
Puzzled wrote:
>
> The question is: what am I doing wrong? Is it that I do not look goth
> enough? Like I said, when I was younger I was a punk rocker/goth
> type, and a girl I was hanging with was hit on by a socer player: she
> told him he looked like a confused jock. Is that me?
yes.
i wouldn't trust any stranger boy who came out to the local club in
mundane gear and then hit on chicks. i'd say "oh fuck. some goddamn
jock who's heard that goth chicks are really kinky and easy is looking
for a piece of ass." and then i'd prolly tell my friends to look out.
the fact that you describe yourself as an "ex-goth" also sets off alarm
bells for me.
siani (has had bad experiences with people saying that they are
"ex-goths")
siani evans
Puzzled wrote:
>
> Thanks for your input, Agnieska. A few responses:
>
> >On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Puzzled wrote:
> >
> ><snip>
> >> The question is: what am I doing wrong? Is it that I do not look goth
> >> enough?
> >
> >Yes.
>
> Does that mean goth girls and goths in general are prejudiced against
> normal people, even if they have a lot of the same interests?
normal boys in a goth club trying to pick up goffick chicks is enough of
a phenomenon for us to tar you all with the same brush. much safer that
way. if you're interested in anything about the scene other than the
girls you'll prolly at least dress up a bit, just because you enjoy it.
the boys who don't generally tend to be total creeps who just want to
score.
<\voice of experience>
most of my best friends are total mundanes stylewise. i couldn't give a
rat's ass about how they look.
siani (listening to dinosaur jr now)
siani evans
Puzzled wrote:
>
> Thanks for your response Greycat,
>
> >I, for one, do not like it when a guy (or anyone) dances near me. I am a
> >loner dancer, and unless I know you, I won't dance with anyone. Period.
> >Boy or girl. I think it's too intimate a thing to do with strangers.
> >
> >I HATE it when guys dance next to me and when I move away, they move
> >toward me. I've had to go so far as to move to the other side of the
> >dance floor and then leave when the guy couldn't take the hint that I
> >wasn't interested. I've even had to smack a few when they tried to touch
> >me.
>
> Now we're getting somewhere. Let's say I go to a "normal" dance club.
> If I'm attracted to a girl, I dance near her. If she likes me, she
> opens up a little, we move toward each otherm and dance. Then, while
> we're dancing we throw on big smiles for each other, then she may hug
> me when we're done, and then we talk, drink. It's like a ritual.
> And, yes, this happened to me at a goth club once, though with a
> non-Goth girl.
this doesn't happen at our local goth clubs. you don't generally dance
*with* someone at all, least of all a stranger.
i would be totally creeped out if you tried that moving closer thing.
i'd be like "eew! get out of my personal space! i'm trying to
*dance*." you normals do wierd stuff at your clubs. i have to second
greycat that you'd get a lot more positive response by trying to talk to
the girls rather than trying to dance with them.
>
> I would feel funny walking right up to any girl out of the blue who
> didn't look at me, smile at me, or talk to me first. And, the last
> thing I would ever want is someone to dance with me or pay attention
> to me who doesn't want to, and no, I don't want to feel up strangers.
well, tough. we've just had this thread. look up the "women should
read this" thread.
> I only say I'm decent looking because people don't come up to me and
> tell me i'm ugly. I don't really look like LaCroix from Froever
> Night. I'm way too short and way too wide and my hair's black. But,
> when I look in the mirror, that's the best gothic comparison. As for
> the phone number, yes, when I go out, I normally try to meet girls and
> talk to them. But, trust me, no ego alert.
i never went out with the purpose of meeting guys. and most of the
goffboys i know don't go out to meet girls either. they go out to
dance, drink, have fun.
> >Like I said, when I was younger I was a punk rocker/goth
> >> type, and a girl I was hanging with was hit on by a socer player: she
> >> told him he looked like a confused jock. Is that me?
>
> The only difference between now and when I used to date/hang out with
> goth chicks (yes, i actually have before when i was a goth/punk type,
> that's why this really puzzles me) is that I've shucked the combat
> boots, black trench, and small amount of jewelry, maybe my hair's a
> little shorter.
and your attitude's changed. now you are "an ex-goth", and "normal
looking", "a decent looking guy", you say that at any other club you
would "get at least three phone numbers". attitude shows.
siani
siani evans
i've just realised that it is excessively funny that i am listening to
"don't you want me?" while reading this thread.
siani (loves it when the world works in harmony :)
kelly
> I have a question for any gothic club girls out there. I'm a "normal"
> guy who for the last three weeks has frequented the one goth club in
> my town. I'm really attracted to gothic girls and have been all my
> life.
That, in and of itself, says one thing: you are going to the club for
the express purpose of meeting the said goth girls you are attracted to.
You may not be, but that is how you cam across.
> In fact, a lot of the girls I'm attracted to will
> leave the dancefloor if I dance anywhere near them.
Here's a hint, not just for dancefloor interaction, but just general
getting along in clubs. Watch and learn. Look at the way
the "regulars" behave themselves and interact. Do you see a lot of
people dancing together? Are they clearly together over all (in other
words, did they seem to come together and take to the floor with the
express intent of dancing together?)?
You might notice that very few goths dance together. The closest I've
seen (other than couples who go out on the dancefloor with that intent)
is the protective "circle dance" when friends will dance alone, but in
a rough circle formation to avoid the overly amouous with no sense of
goth club etiquette, and to protect the drinks/purses/coats from
everyone else on the floor.
> At any other club l would at least chat with and probably get phone
> numbers from 3 girls.
That, again, gives off the impression that you go to goth clubs for the
purpose of picking up women and collecting phone numbers.
It comes across _quite_ clearly in text that you are more interested in
meeting someone to get all hot and sweaty with than you are in
listening to the music and dancing, or simply enjoying the social
atmosphere. You already have the strike against you of not looking the
part, thus forcing most girls to assume you're there for one of the
legendary sluty sexxxy death chix. You're also not aquainted with
common goth dancing- that it is normally a solitary practice, and
trying to dance with girls who have entered the floor alone is
generally taken as an offense. I have trouble believing you're all
that familiar with the goth scene if this is news to you.
> Like I said, when I was younger I was a punk rocker/goth
> type, and a girl I was hanging with was hit on by a socer player: she
> told him he looked like a confused jock. Is that me?
Afraid so. If you're dead set on winning your way into acceptance at
the local club, there's not much work to be done. As I said before,
simply watch the other patrons, try and see how they behave, esp. on he
dance floor. Make some effort to fit in- black jeans and a black t-
shirt aren't too much to ask. Trying to get back into the goth scene
and meet people? Why not look for a local mailing list? I'm a
moderator on one for my city and we try to organize get-togetheres
every so often.
However, if you're only there to hook up, this may be futile- girls can
usually tell.
--
...kelly
-ruined for life-
http://www.wnygoth.com
http://www.velvet.net/~kelly
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/ke...@wnygoth.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Puzzled
asshole as myself generated so many posts in a gothic forum. Maybe if
you guys knew how many goths, among other
people, I saved in college from from being harrassed,
roughed up, and generally fucked with by frat boys and
athletes by showing this athletic appearance (I'll say it for you,
"Ego alert"), some of you may have replied differently than you did.
Most of your replies have served to show me that the gothic movement
is really no different than a college fraternity or sorority in that
it has no toleration for anyone who doesn't completely conform to its
party line and that it's all about the jacket--or in this case gothic
fashion--and trying to fit in.
A lot of you have reinforced the worst Gothic stereotypes--you really
want to put me in a hearse and burn me at the stake? and I hope that
the next time some "normal person" grabs your tits, slaps you around
for looking like a faggot, and throws plastic fangs your way, hits you
with them, laughs, and then mumbles something about Elvira or
sunlight, please remember how kindly, sweetly and pleasantly many of
you responded to my posts on this newsgroup.
I'm sorry for having crashed your party and won't do it again,
Puzzled No More
--Domo arigoto dojimasta; or, if you prefer, should we meet again, I
hope it's over tea.
Christopher Gross
>I'm a decent
>looking guy, and I even dress the part: picture a shorter, stalkier,
"Stalkier"? That's the best Freudian slip I've heard in a long time. ;)
--Chris
--
______________________________________________________________________
Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
chr...@gwu.edu
jennie
>things in common and don't have things incommon. I was checking to
>see if goths were cliquish and pretentious, andyou're showing me that
Some of them are, certainly.
Some of them aren't.
Same as with any population.
Your first post was fairly coherent and reasonable. If you
stay that way, even in the face of provocation, you're much more likely to
find out something useful, the something which you apparently came here
for.
Please don't let's have another hundreds-long thread of people
shouting at each other, when we could all just take a deep breath and
discuss things intelligently instead.
Jennie
(hell, maybe I'm just getting too old for all this)
--
Jennie Kermode jen...@innocent.com
Webpages now updated at: http://www.triffid.demon.co.uk/jennie
Back on news. Not yet back on mail. ETA for mail three days.
Lady Greycat
says...
> I'm sorry for having crashed your party and won't do it again,
>
> Puzzled No More
So does this mean your are taking the ball and going home?
Greycat
(have some dignity, man)
--
@-'-~~~~~~I am fortune's fool~~~~~~-'-@
Me: http://pretention.net/greycat
Domains: http://pretention.net - http://feverish.org
Need Email? http://webmail.pretention.net
Albatross
(jennie) wrote:
>On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:55:19 GMT, Puzzled <bakh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>things in common and don't have things incommon. I was checking to
>>see if goths were cliquish and pretentious, andyou're showing me that
>>yes they are.
>
> Some of them are, certainly.
> Some of them aren't.
> Same as with any population.
Same as with any population -
but more same in goth population.
We were talking about this over dinner with some
goth/ex-goth friends last night.
It seems strange that these people -
so many of whom stood on the outside of things in
HS and before, are so quick to adopt similar social
strategies themselves.
I personally don't have that much problem
with it. A persons got to do what they've got to do
to hole themselves up in their castles of mediocre
imagination.
> Your first post was fairly coherent and reasonable. If you
>stay that way, even in the face of provocation, you're much more likely to
>find out something useful, the something which you apparently came here
>for.
He's either trollling or -
he's a guy with some interests and looks
at people who dress in these interesting way
and thinks to himself - I'll bet I could get on with
someone like this. But, he goes to where they go,
and no one has given him the rulebook, and he discovers
the they have a facade like armour, and wonders
if someone can give him the rule book.
And I'm all for telling him straight up:
there are many intelligent women in the world,
and you're just as likely to find one of them in
your local parish, or at the library. You might increase
your chances of finding an intelligent woman at
a goth club - but you are also incresing the chances
of finding some real serious neurosis. And if you're
looking for Emily Bronte, you're going to be disappointed.
> (hell, maybe I'm just getting too old for all this)
I know for damn sure I'm too old.
A
~
elegy
> I have a question for any gothic club girls out there. I'm a "normal"
> guy who for the last three weeks has frequented the one goth club in
> my town. I'm really attracted to gothic girls and have been all my
> Can Dance everyday, and Baudelaire and Dostoyevsky are still two of my
> favorite writers.
you do seem mildly confused - reader of dostoevsky, but loves to shake
his rump on the dance floor??? sure, i know this odd mix does exist
legitimately, but... it still is quite an odd mix...
which goes along with you looking "normal/straight", but you prefer the
look of a "goth girl"... for what is wrong with a "normal/straight" girl
who is more "goth" on the inside (like you)??? point being, if you want
to attract a girl with a particular look such as "goth", then you will
normally have to adopt a similar look - because most look a certain way
that not only appeals to themselves, but that would appeal to their mate
with similar tastes in appearance, etc...
> The question is: what am I doing wrong? Is it that I do not look goth
> enough? Like I said, when I was younger I was a punk rocker/goth
> type, and a girl I was hanging with was hit on by a socer player: she
> told him he looked like a confused jock. Is that me?
i would say yes, for the most part... you have, now, become the
"confused jock" that you mention... probably in a different manner than
the example you just gave, but still... more or less, that is how many
of the "goth girls" (at a dance club, at least) will see you as being
(right or wrong)...
i had a similar dilemma myself... which is, basically, that along with
my chronological age came a difference in taste and thus personal style,
etc... by my early 20's, i had transformed physically (seeing as i have,
actually, became darker than i was as a teen - only on a much deeper
level and thus less shallow level and thus the relenquishing of such
silly concerns as physical appearance) from being about as "goth" and
"wild" and "arty" looking as possible to quite the semi-"normal" looking
intellectual geekish type... basically, i went from looking like robert
smith or peter murphy to freakish law student or alternative
intellectual on the side of suburbia (as opposed the the more hip
version - ala morrissey)...
all of which is to say :
either change you own personal appearance (which, to me, would be a form
of "selling out") in order to have a better chance to attract that
type/style of gal... or take the more "real" approach and simply be
yourself and if a "goth" looking gal comes your way, fine... if not,
fine - as in you need to open your own physical tastes up much more,
obviously (rather than being so holed up on the idea/concept of a "goth"
looking gal - for you, in essence, are doing the same thing to other
gals as these "goth" gals are doing to you - having such limitations on
physical appearance or physical attractions - i learned years ago to
remain very open to many different types of gals, physically speaking -
but then again, the mind became much more important to me than a
particular sense of style, etc)...
Albatross
>I'm surprised that a post from such a clueless and confused non-goth
>asshole as myself generated so many posts in a gothic forum. Maybe if
>you guys knew how many goths, among other
>people, I saved in college from from being harrassed,
>roughed up, and generally fucked with by frat boys
You forgot the part where the goths role the
stone from before the tomb, only to discover
that, good to your word, you've risen from the dead.
A
~
zentariana
with us all:
<snip!>
i read it differently.
look at it from a girl's perspective..
they're quite used to having goofy drunk frat guys going in for some
sp00ky pussy. it'd get old after .. uhm.. well, just hearing about it.
of -course- they're going to be on a look out. of -course- they're
going to be leary of new people. they go to this place to have fun and
that's what they want to do.
if i went to a party and all the people acted a certain way don't you
think i'd be a bit out of line to expect them to change and accept me
when i've just shown up? it might actually go better if you started
talking to a few of them and figured out how things are done -- things
are usually done for a reason. and this whole thread has told the
reason. now you know. i found it interesting, myself. *shrug*
~becky~
----
"let's play something else for a change
hey i know why don't i poke out my eyes
for you over and over and over and over again?"
_midgets with guns_ by Pain.
elegy
> I'm surprised that a post from such a clueless and confused non-goth
> asshole as myself generated so many posts in a gothic forum. Maybe if
> you guys knew how many goths, among other
> people, I saved in college from from being harrassed,
> athletes by showing this athletic appearance (I'll say it for you,
> "Ego alert"), some of you may have replied differently than you did.
>
> Most of your replies have served to show me that the gothic movement
> is really no different than a college fraternity or sorority in that
> it has no toleration for anyone who doesn't completely conform to its
> party line and that it's all about the jacket--or in this case gothic
> fashion--and trying to fit in.
yes, well... i'm glad to know that you have FINALLY seen the light -
truth... for much of "goth" culture truly isn't different than any other
micro-cosm of society... it, often times, all comes down to a mere
difference in cultural preferences (such as clothes and music, etc)...
all quite shallow, just as any culture or group, etc, (in essence) is...
for anyone too closely related to any culture or group, etc, have set
limitations on themselves... as opposed to just remaining (or truly
fighting through the muck to become) a true individual without such
shallow limitations...
which brings me to the why i responded :
throughout my life, i was "the freak" (or one of "the freaks") who was
horribly harassed and spat on and pulled over by the police for no good
reason and grabbed at, etc... to the point that it completely tore or
stripped down any and all of the dignity left within my being... so,
after taking time away from all people and types... i spent that time
building my body up more (so as these same "normal/societal" fools would
think twice before trying to strip me down again - to which it has
helped... for not one time afterwards have i had any troubles with those
fools you and i have mentioned... also, in the process, it has helped to
regain/rebuild my dignity, etc) and allowing myself the freedom to not
feel the need to look "hip", etc...
which is to say that - i now look somewhere inbetween "alternative/goth"
and "normal/suburbanite"... and i can only imagine what "goths" or
"punks", etc, might view me as being at this stage (possibly, they might
view me as being one of the fools that you and i have spoken of - which
would only show the ignorance and prejudice that does exist amongst ALL
groups/cultures/sub-cultures, etc)...
Tim McGaughy
wrote on 9/25/00 5:55 AM:
>
>>
>> Not all the time, but at goth clubs, generally speaking, YES. What did
>> you expect? You walk into a little goth haven when goths can finally be
>> surrounded only by other people who look goth, and you disturb the
>> atmosphere by looking normal and expect people to like it?
>
> You answered my question. The fact that you're so defensive also
> answers my question. I was merely pointing out that 2 people have
> things in common and don't have things incommon. I was checking to
> see if goths were cliquish and pretentious, andyou're showing me that
> yes they are.
Oh, pleeeaaaze.
I don't dress particularly goth... About the sum total effort I put into it
is to put on a black shirt. And that's how I ALWAYS dress, so even that's
not actually an effort.
And (if I may be excused for waving my dick in the air for a moment) I do
not lack for conversation should I want it. I would not lack for a date, or
phone numbers, were it not that I already have a fiancee.
Goth women will respond to the same damn things other women with an ounce of
self-respect will. If you're not getting jiggy with a goth chick, then it's
Your Own God Damned Fault.
Tim McGaughy
wrote on 9/25/00 7:57 AM:
> This group reinforces a lot of stereotypes, like that a normal person
> doesn't even belong in a goth club, and next Sunday, my nose will be
> where it belongs--watching the NFL.
Yeah, THAT'll get you laid.
Tim McGaughy
wrote on 9/25/00 9:10 AM:
> Pixie,
>
> Thanks for being nice. :) FYI--I've never grabbed anyone's breasts
> who didn't want me to, I've never gone up and rubbed my crotch off an
> unwilling stranger, and I've never forced myself on anyone. In fact,
> I've stood up for women in situations like those. And, for the
> record, I'm not a white-shoe, baseball hat guy, I'm a
> medieval/renaissance scholar who has been friends with, dated, and
> hung out with a number of goths in my time and very shortly considered
> doing it again.
This Does Not Ring True At All.
elegy
> key to any subculture:
> what happened to that made you want to be this way?
and the key to being an individual :
why do you feel the need to be apart of a group or culture???
Tim McGaughy
on 9/26/00 7:12 AM:
> A lot of you have reinforced the worst Gothic stereotypes--you really
> want to put me in a hearse and burn me at the stake? and I hope that
> the next time some "normal person" grabs your tits, slaps you around
> for looking like a faggot, and throws plastic fangs your way, hits you
> with them, laughs, and then mumbles something about Elvira or
> sunlight, please remember how kindly, sweetly and pleasantly many of
> you responded to my posts on this newsgroup.
translation:
I've got these nails and this hammer... can you help me mount myself on this
cross?
pixie
wrote:
^*^
^*^pixie <ei...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
^*^news:nh6tss4sjukt5vu9p...@4ax.com...
^*^
^*^> "Goblins will feast on your buttocks! Your gums will
^*^> become diseased and your teeth will turn to glue... GLUE!"
^*^
^*^This is funny. Where does this quote come from?
Kids in the Hall!
=)
I love sketch comedy, and I love the Kids in the Hall most.
pixie
Panic Girl
> Well, goth clubs are not *not* pick-up bars either. The difference is
> that people just go there with their own friends, whom, sometimes, they
> also end up picking up, hence the intense drama factor surrounding most
> goth clubs. :p
>
HAH! Amen! :)
This thread has alot to do with the "sex,sanity and popular press" thread
I think. "Normal" guys do this shit beaucse "normal" girl are told that
they should put up with and encourage this kind of behavior from mags like
Cosmo etc.
PANIC, has punched normals who didn't get the hint...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the midst of life
We are in debt
Etcetera - Morrissey
zentariana
<riddl...@myownprivate.com> shared with us all:
<snip>
key to any subculture:
what happened to that made you want to be this way?
~becky~
Puzzled
wrote:
I apologize for returning to your group and crashing your party once
more, but I'm a small person and I actually care about ths issue:
Okay, genius, if you're so knowledgable, and I'm the belching,
rohypnol fratboy, answer some of these questions--they're pretty
gothy, in a medieval kind of way. What do Boethius and Averoes have
in common? How did Scaliger, Castelvetro, and Trissino influence the
intellectual climate of their day? What caused the shift from Latin
to the vernacular, and why was it important? And, why did Eyptian
mysticism play an important role in Medieval/Renaissance
interpretation of Platonic theory. That's off the top of my head, if
you want me to stump you, give me a night to hit the library.
And, yes, Greycat, I'm taking my ball home. What parts of "I just
want you to go away," "Well, if I have convinced you to never show
your face in a goth club again, my work here is done," "For you who is
unaware, some denizens of the goth world in northern cali band
together to form the death guild and go every year to burn someone to
recreate a sort of gladiator match from Mad Mac Thunderdome," "Apathy.
Maybe the confused jock will stop bugging us" and how about "i *so*
want to go to burn that guy. have for days now... but now that i
have the hearse i think i might actually do it... load up a scooter
or two, get some bedding in the back and just up and go. but i don't
know if i can afford that much gas" these don't you understand? It's
the same as going to a goth club, which I won't do again. Would you
stick around where you weren't wanted?
BTW-the word "stalky" is a slip from Silk Stalkings--it's not only
practicing goths who enjoy or have enjoyed S&M. And, for those of you
who have been polite and constructive like Greycat, Elegy, Exile, Nick
Kelly, and especially Jennie thank you for carrying on a constructive
discourse.
Edvamp
>people, I saved in college
And redeemed for valuable prizes.
Ever and Always
Edvamp
Perkygoth Supreme
Edvamp
>
>why do you feel the need to be apart of a group or culture???
All human beings are parts of groups and/or cultures, actually several. It is
an inescapable fact of human existence.
rad...@earthlink.net
>
> I'm surprised that a post from such a clueless and confused non-goth
> asshole as myself generated so many posts in a gothic forum.
Not so mysterious as a non-goth repeately posting to a goth forum after
saying he's leaving no less than thee times. If youre waiting for us to
have a collective change of heart and pat your head and rub your belly,
don't hold your breath
> Maybe if
> you guys knew how many goths, among other
> people, I saved in college from from being harrassed,
> roughed up, and generally fucked with by frat boys and
> athletes by showing this athletic appearance (I'll say it for you,
> "Ego alert"), some of you may have replied differently than you did.
Oh, no. Superman has abandoned us! Metropolis is doomed! Given the
choice between being "saved" by some squat loser with a hero complex and
a beating, I'll take the beating
> Most of your replies have served to show me that the gothic movement
> is really no different than a college fraternity or sorority in that
> it has no toleration for anyone who doesn't completely conform to its
> party line and that it's all about the jacket--or in this case gothic
> fashion--and trying to fit in.
Funny, all the posts I read, pretty much said, "We don't like normals
because they act like you." You asked a question, you didn't like the
answer. Deal. You went to a goth club to pick up girls. You couldn't
pick up girls (three *whole* times). The solution is don't go to goth
clubs to pick up girls. Simple. The way you dress is *indicative* of
the problem (ie: normal guy just showing up to pick up girls), its not
the problem itself.
> A lot of you have reinforced the worst Gothic stereotypes--you really
> want to put me in a hearse and burn me at the stake? and I hope that
> the next time some "normal person" grabs your tits, slaps you around
> for looking like a faggot, and throws plastic fangs your way, hits you
> with them, laughs, and then mumbles something about Elvira or
> sunlight, please remember how kindly, sweetly and pleasantly many of
> you responded to my posts on this newsgroup.
See above, and note, it hasn't happened yet.
> I'm sorry for having crashed your party and won't do it again,
You keep saying that.
> Puzzled No More
Not an especially apt Nym.
Jim Dugan
Edvamp
Darkseid is goth.
Knox Velour
>> become diseased and your teeth will turn to glue... GLUE!"
>
Kids In The Hall!!!!! If only I had my very own house demon as well....=(
Monica - the dyke chick
yikes, another Polish girl
maybe we're related.
Monica
I am sorry to inform you that I am not, nor will I ever be, a breeder. -me
"I'm gonna beat your ass, bitch!" "Thank you!"
Panurge
>All human beings are parts of groups and/or cultures, actually several. It is
>an inescapable fact of human existence.
Which isn't necessarily bad--the problem starts when you start depending
on the group(s) with which you associate to shore up your sense of self or
give you a place in the world.
--
The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In the interregnum, a
variety of strange and morbid symptoms appears. --Antonio Gramsci
Knox Velour
>Your Own God Damned Fault.
For some reason I have a problem picturing goth girls "getting jiggy with it"
Kris
>>If you're not getting jiggy with a goth chick, then it's
>>Your Own God Damned Fault.
>
>For some reason I have a problem picturing goth girls "getting jiggy with it"
Na na na na na na na.
~Kris.
"You can't always get the things you want, love (check it out)
You get what you deserve
Or maybe what you need"
~Everlast
Lady Greycat
says...
>
> And, yes, Greycat, I'm taking my ball home. What parts of "I just
> want you to go away," "Well, if I have convinced you to never show
> your face in a goth club again, my work here is done," "For you who is
> unaware, some denizens of the goth world in northern cali band
> together to form the death guild and go every year to burn someone to
> recreate a sort of gladiator match from Mad Mac Thunderdome," "Apathy.
> Maybe the confused jock will stop bugging us" and how about "i *so*
> want to go to burn that guy. have for days now... but now that i
> have the hearse i think i might actually do it... load up a scooter
> or two, get some bedding in the back and just up and go. but i don't
> know if i can afford that much gas" these don't you understand? It's
> the same as going to a goth club, which I won't do again. Would you
> stick around where you weren't wanted?
Well...for one, those are the opinions of a few certain people. Filter
them. The opinions of people on this group are not the opinions indictive
of every goth girl in YOUR scene. By assuming that ALL goth women feel
that way, you are lumping me into that category, and I do not feel the
way they do. I certainly don't think you should be harmed or chased away
from goth girls, and honestly, that idea is a bit extreme and uncalled
for.
I think you are a tad clueless as to how girls that are not in the
"normal scene" work. I think that you try too hard, and that comes off as
a lack of self confidence, not to mention lack of understanding of the
scene, itself. You have this false pretense that your looks are all that
matters, and I've found that men who a) have confidence and pride in
themselves, but NOT ego, and b) men who have intelligence to be more sexy
than a guy who thinks he's hot.
You are not going to find you mate in a club, and why would you want to?
Clubs are for drinking, for dancing, and showing masks, not for mating.
Sure it can help you find someone that may be interesting, but you can
also find those girls at the library or an art gallery or somewhere where
it's not so glaringly obvious that you are there to get laid.
You don't have to stay here. That's fine. Or you could lurk and try to
figure out WHY the women are this way, what type of men they like. You'll
also find out that alot of the girls who put up such a bravado aren't as
"strong" as they profess to be. People who put up bravados usually
aren't. They are HUMAN and have been hurt by people like you in the past.
You think they want some girl to get taken over by your "charms" and then
get hurt like they were? No. I'm not saying this is really the way it is
with you, I'm saying that's how they see you.
I can only speak for myself here, I can't speak for anyone else. Not to
mention, people in this thread have been saying that goth girls have
self-respect and blah blah blah, to which I have only found to be about
50% true in most scenes. You have your girls that are strong, but you
have a lot of girls that don't have any self-respect, as well. That is
basically true of any scene, goth, normal, punk, whatever.
I think the deal is this:
The way you come off to US over print does not give off a good
impression. You seem to some to be slick and only wanting a piece of
tail. You seem to others just to be clueless and full of yourself.
Neither of those personalities mesh well with this scene. IF you truly do
like goth girls, you'll find out how to handle yourself in front of them,
you'll find out what it is they look for. You won't go to a club hoping
to pick up a few quick numbers, then take her out to some better than mc
donalds but not better than olive garden restaurant and then get laid for
your measly efforts. Most of us can see right thru that, and have been
played by others that way.
I think a lot of us have dated guys that are like what you give off...and
had bad experiences, because the guys were not what we wanted, and just
plain awful.
No, I wouldn't date you. The cowardliness in leaving because you were
getting the proper responses, the idea that just because a few people
were mean (while others were nice) so all of us are mean, and the way you
just generally think a goth girl should be won over by your "charms" irks
me. But if you really were not the kind of person people have this idea
that you are, you'd actually LISTEN to what people are saying and try to
give off a better impression of yourself.
Sorry, that is the way in life. If you want something, you have to work
for it. I don't mean to be so harsh, but I'm just being honest.
Greycat
(It's all a game, you just have to know how to play it)
Lady Greycat
(riddl...@myownprivate.com) says...
> either change you own personal appearance (which, to me, would be a form
> of "selling out") in order to have a better chance to attract that
> type/style of gal... or take the more "real" approach and simply be
> yourself and if a "goth" looking gal comes your way, fine... if not,
> fine - as in you need to open your own physical tastes up much more,
> obviously (rather than being so holed up on the idea/concept of a "goth"
> looking gal - for you, in essence, are doing the same thing to other
> gals as these "goth" gals are doing to you - having such limitations on
> physical appearance or physical attractions - i learned years ago to
> remain very open to many different types of gals, physically speaking -
> but then again, the mind became much more important to me than a
> particular sense of style, etc)...
>
Bravo. Exactly.
Greycat
Lady Greycat
Panurge (jbl...@mindspring.com) says...
>
> Which isn't necessarily bad--the problem starts when you start depending
> on the group(s) with which you associate to shore up your sense of self or
> give you a place in the world.
*applause*
It is also true to say there is a problem in "hunting" for particular
people who are only involved with one particular scene as well. It ties
into what you said above.
Not only would you be limiting yourself, but you usually wind up unhappy
with that person, because they so rigidly fill some predestined roll,
instead of having the flexibility to adapt to you and your
personality...not to mention, you lack the same.
exile
} Okay, genius, if you're so knowledgable, and I'm the belching,
} rohypnol fratboy, answer some of these questions--they're pretty
} gothy, in a medieval kind of way. What do Boethius and Averoes have
} in common? How did Scaliger, Castelvetro, and Trissino influence the
} intellectual climate of their day? What caused the shift from Latin
} to the vernacular, and why was it important? And, why did Eyptian
} mysticism play an important role in Medieval/Renaissance
} interpretation of Platonic theory. That's off the top of my head, if
} you want me to stump you, give me a night to hit the library.
This scene is not that scene. We have different artists and thinkers and
environments.
What was the first song Siouxsie recorded? Bauhaus? Joy Division? Why is
In Excelsis important? What role does agnosticism play in the imagery of
Current 93? White supremacy? What real relationship did the Cure have to
Camus? What has the Medieval/Renaissance interpretation of Platonic theory
to do with the songs of Andrew Eldritch?
{Tho' it would seem that's not much discussed 'round here no more. The new
school's too busy trying to make believe it never existed.}
} who have been polite and constructive like Greycat, Elegy, Exile, Nick
Thanks
exile
} it didn't even _occur_ to me that dancing was something that one did
} *with* someone else.
} --nightshade-- {except in the formal sense}
I believe that if it's agreed upon beforehand and
you stay within the other person's field of vision
for, at least, 2o% of the time you're on the dance
floor that one might be considered to be dancing
with another.
{'Course if it's synchronized... one could be
considered to be having sexual relations with
another.}
Panic Girl
Geez.
PANIC, oooooo mommy the goths were mean to me <sniff> <sniff>
RazorJAK, the Once & Future Crankygoth
<gre...@pretention.net> wrote:
>In article <39cfd49...@news.nb.net>, Puzzled (bakh...@yahoo.com)
>says...
>> I'm sorry for having crashed your party and won't do it again,
>>
>> Puzzled No More
>
>So does this mean your are taking the ball and going home?
You stole my line! :-)
And I have the log files to prove it.
Hahahhaha
*giving Greycat a kiss on the cheek*
RazorJAK
--
"People forget how fast you did a job -- but they remember how well
you did it." Howard W. Newton
-
Quote 147 of 1632 of the Revolving Sigfile O' Doom
-
http://www.pagans.org/~razorjak
<ICQ 5300005>-@-<AIM & Yahoo RazorJAK>
Tigress
pixie <ei...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:d6vvssofa0vjvr0hp...@4ax.com...
> ^*^> "Goblins will feast on your buttocks! Your gums will
> ^*^> become diseased and your teeth will turn to glue... GLUE!"
> ^*^
> ^*^This is funny. Where does this quote come from?
>
> Kids in the Hall!
>
> =)
> I love sketch comedy, and I love the Kids in the Hall most.
Ah. That's probably why I didn't recognize it. I never watch that show.
--
Katherine Dunn
kdh...@netzero.net
Handler of Tigress
Tigress's Lair -- http://www.crosswinds.net/~drksdr
Tigress.com -- http://eyeofthetigress.tripod.com
Sabbat Justice -- http://www.crosswinds.net/~sabbatjustice
Tigress
Tigress
Tigress
Tigress
Tigress
Tigress
Tigress
Nick/Yaruar
> > Most of your replies have served to show me that the gothic movement
> > is really no different than a college fraternity or sorority in that
> > it has no toleration for anyone who doesn't completely conform to its
> > party line and that it's all about the jacket--or in this case gothic
> > fashion--and trying to fit in.
>
> Funny, all the posts I read, pretty much said, "We don't like normals
> because they act like you." You asked a question, you didn't like the
> answer. Deal. You went to a goth club to pick up girls. You couldn't
> pick up girls (three *whole* times). The solution is don't go to goth
> clubs to pick up girls. Simple. The way you dress is *indicative* of
> the problem (ie: normal guy just showing up to pick up girls), its not
> the problem itself.
On a similar note does anyone else ever get pissed off with people who
only go out to pull????????
Especially the guys you invariably meet who only go to goth clubs and only
dress up with the intention of picking up goth girls... (usually the
homophobic ones in the bad makeup ;-) )
Nick/Yaruar
rad...@earthlink.net
>
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:41:47 +0800, Tim McGaughy <tee...@jump.net>
> wrote:
>
> >in article 39cea370...@news.nb.net, Puzzled at bakh...@yahoo.com
> >wrote on 9/25/00 9:10 AM:
> >
> >> Pixie,
> >>
> >> Thanks for being nice. :) FYI--I've never grabbed anyone's breasts
> >> who didn't want me to, I've never gone up and rubbed my crotch off an
> >> unwilling stranger, and I've never forced myself on anyone. In fact,
> >> I've stood up for women in situations like those. And, for the
> >> record, I'm not a white-shoe, baseball hat guy, I'm a
> >> medieval/renaissance scholar who has been friends with, dated, and
> >> hung out with a number of goths in my time and very shortly considered
> >> doing it again.
> >
> >This Does Not Ring True At All.
> >
>
> I apologize for returning to your group and crashing your party once
> more, but I'm a small person and I actually care about ths issue:
Translation: I have no life and a pitifully fragile ego.
>
> Okay, genius, if you're so knowledgable, and I'm the belching,
> rohypnol fratboy, answer some of these questions--they're pretty
> gothy, in a medieval kind of way. What do Boethius and Averoes have
> in common? How did Scaliger, Castelvetro, and Trissino influence the
> intellectual climate of their day? What caused the shift from Latin
> to the vernacular, and why was it important? And, why did Eyptian
> mysticism play an important role in Medieval/Renaissance
> interpretation of Platonic theory. That's off the top of my head, if
> you want me to stump you, give me a night to hit the library.
A few irrelavent factoids, or rather the assertion thereof doesn't make
you less socially inept. Nor, for that matter, does it prove anything
other than you can reguritate a couple of term paper topics from your
major. Now, the fact that you can't formulate a cogent paragraph, and
your response to criticism is to wield your machismo like a pathetic
phallic substitute (anonymously, from a disposable account, of course)
does tend to prove the notion that not all morons major in gym.
Jim Dugan
Tiny Human Ferret
> > > is really no different than a college fraternity or sorority in that
> > > it has no toleration for anyone who doesn't completely conform to its
> > > party line and that it's all about the jacket--or in this case gothic
> > > fashion--and trying to fit in.
> >
> > Funny, all the posts I read, pretty much said, "We don't like normals
> > because they act like you." You asked a question, you didn't like the
> > answer. Deal. You went to a goth club to pick up girls. You couldn't
> > pick up girls (three *whole* times). The solution is don't go to goth
> > clubs to pick up girls. Simple. The way you dress is *indicative* of
> > the problem (ie: normal guy just showing up to pick up girls), its not
> > the problem itself.
>
> only go out to pull????????
>
> Especially the guys you invariably meet who only go to goth clubs and only
> dress up with the intention of picking up goth girls... (usually the
> homophobic ones in the bad makeup ;-) )
And you might ask me what I think of the people who inevitably mistake me
for exactly that person.... you're just _so_ wrong.
>
> Nick/Yaruar
--
"I wear the cheese. The cheese does not wear me."
-- Joss Whedon
Cavalorn
writes
>--Domo arigoto dojimasta; or, if you prefer, should we meet again, I
>hope it's over tea.
You are John Everett in disguise testing a theory and I claim my $5. :)
Cav
--
Give me a woman who's taken her knocks,
Who's tasted both gutter and stars.
Give me a lady with holes in her socks.
Give me a princess with scars.
lucifire
It seems to me, reading the responses from some of the other posters,
that if the girls in the club are anything like some of the girls on here
you're better off on your own, flower.
I for one wouldn't be attrached to the attitude of the some of the girls
on here....
lucy.....xxx
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
siani evans
Puzzled wrote:
>
> I'm surprised that a post from such a clueless and confused non-goth
> asshole as myself generated so many posts in a gothic forum. Maybe if
> you guys knew how many goths, among other
> people, I saved in college from from being harrassed,
> roughed up, and generally fucked with by frat boys and
> athletes by showing this athletic appearance (I'll say it for you,
> "Ego alert"), some of you may have replied differently than you did.
how many? 2? 3? want to know how many times *i've* done that without
the benefit of anything other than 95lbs of attitude and a thick skin?
are we supposed to all consider ourselves deeply in your debt because a
few times you acted as any vaguely decent human being should?
>
> Most of your replies have served to show me that the gothic movement
> is really no different than a college fraternity or sorority in that
> it has no toleration for anyone who doesn't completely conform to its
> party line and that it's all about the jacket--or in this case gothic
> fashion--and trying to fit in.
yeah, except that *there is no "gothic movement"*. your point, troll?
so we're mean, big fat hairy deal. i think that every girl here has had
the experience of fending off some normal trying to get a piece of kinky
tail in their local club. it's an unfortunate part of life for us. if
you want to meet girls in a goth club you're going to have to make it
really *obvious* that you aren't also just some guy looking for some
kinky sex on the first date. however, that will probably be difficult,
since that seems to be *exactly* what you are doing.
>
> A lot of you have reinforced the worst Gothic stereotypes--you really
> want to put me in a hearse and burn me at the stake? and I hope that
> the next time some "normal person" grabs your tits, slaps you around
> for looking like a faggot, and throws plastic fangs your way, hits you
> with them, laughs, and then mumbles something about Elvira or
> sunlight, please remember how kindly, sweetly and pleasantly many of
> you responded to my posts on this newsgroup.
oh for gods sakes, get some skin! no one's even been flaming you,
really! we've been just as nice to you as we are to each other, it's
just that never having had to deal with much trouble in your life, you
don't seem to be able to let *anything* roll off of you.
>
> I'm sorry for having crashed your party and won't do it again,
'kay. you don't want to play our game, we don't want to play yours.
hope the chicks in your local club are easier for you to pull.
siani
Elusis
(dancing with people)
> this doesn't happen at our local goth clubs. you don't generally dance
> *with* someone at all, least of all a stranger.
> i would be totally creeped out if you tried that moving closer thing.
> i'd be like "eew! get out of my personal space! i'm trying to
> *dance*." you normals do wierd stuff at your clubs.
And then they come into our clubs and do the same weird stuff...
(thinking of how much I'd really like to smack some of the people who
show up to g/i night in Ithaca...)
I could live with them requesting the same goddamned Beborn Beton and
Wolfsheim and Iris songs every fucking week, if they'd just *stop
groping one another* while they dance to them! This past week, there
was actually one of those little "5 or 6 people stand in a circle and
make vaguely dancing motions while they talk" things going on, right in
the center of the floor, for *ages*... <banging forehead>
Elusis
(who seconds the conclusion: one does NOT dance "with" people in goth
clubs.)
--
When is Ocean Spray going to come out with its new Cran-Shut Up juice
blend? -DWC ~*~ Memory is a crazy old woman who hoards colored rags
and throws away food -Anon ~*~ GOTH/INDUSTRIAL NIGHT coming soon to
Syracuse NY - email ve...@notthispart.rmta.org for info ~*~
kelly
> Maybe if you guys knew how many goths, among other
> people, I saved in college from from being harrassed,
> roughed up, and generally fucked with by frat boys and
> athletes by showing this athletic appearance (I'll say it for you,
> "Ego alert"), some of you may have replied differently than you did.
Oh gee, thank you sir. May I spit shine your boots now???
Seriously- you're saying that because you knew how to crush a Schlitz
can on your brow ridge, the other alpha-males decided that they had
better things to do than harass people.. wnad we should be impressed
and awed because....??
> please remember how kindly, sweetly and pleasantly many of
> you responded to my posts on this newsgroup.
Most people _did_ respond politely. They tried to explain why you were
treated as you were, and offered advice as to how to fit in.
You did not like the _honest_ answers, and apparently were looking for
the super-seekret password to use when trying to pick up a goth chick.
Sorry, it takes more to win someone over than whispering "Peter Murphy"
into their ear.
> I'm sorry for having crashed your party and won't do it again,
Take your ball and go home, then. No loss to us.
--
...kelly
-ruined for life-
http://www.wnygoth.com
http://www.velvet.net/~kelly
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/ke...@wnygoth.com
kelly
> normal people, even if they have a lot of the same interests?
OK, so our advising you that someone who makes an attempt to fit in at
a goth club, clothes-wise, is petty, superficial, and prejudiced.
Yet you going to a club simply to pick up a goth girl, not a girl, a
_goth_ girl, is the height of open-mindedness?
If that was the case, you should be happy with those three numbers a
night you can collect so easily at the average meatmarket club.
Narnia
gusto in alt.gothic:
>"For you who is unaware, some denizens of the goth world in northern cali
>band together to form the death guild and go every year to burn someone
>to recreate a sort of gladiator match from Mad Mac Thunderdome,"
No, no, no. Burning Man is an annual event that takes place in the
desert. What the person was saying was that some goths from northern
California go out to Burning Man and set up a really nifty camp there.
It is called Burning Man because of the event where the burn a bunch of
sticks made to look like a person. Absolutely nothing to do with
you. There might be a website somewhere for it... do a websearch.
> "Apathy. Maybe the confused jock will stop bugging us"
Actually, that quote was "Apathy. Maybe the customer will stop bugging
us." It was in a different thread, about geeky workplaces.
>and how about "i *so* want to go to burn that guy. have for days
>now... but now that i have the hearse i think i might actually do
>it... load up a scooter or two, get some bedding in the back and just up
>and go. but i don't know if i can afford that much gas"
Siani wants to go to the event Burning Man, which she has wanted to go to
for years.
Paranoid, much?
--
=Narnia= "Give me life, give me pain,
http://www.velvet.net/ give me myself again" - Tori Amos
Please do not send me spam, msword/non-text files, or chain letters
unless I ask for them or have given prior permission.
zentariana
all:
>Siani wants to go to the event Burning Man, which she has wanted to go to
>for years.
>
>Paranoid, much?
oooooh. good then. i was wondering where all these things came from
that he said. i only saw one person here being opening irritated by
him. thanks ;)
~becky~
----
"It’s crusty, it’s oozing sneeze-juice and best of all, I have an
INDIVIDUAL portion!"
http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/500/index4.html
http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/meat!/index8.html
go see that. now. seriously. go.
Brian
>Darkseid is goth.
I always pictured Darkseid as a bit of an indie rocker: he's moody,
temperamental, and full of rage.
It's all about the Joker and Harley Quinn. The Joker was so goth he
had to kill the Jason Todd version of Robin.
And we all know how gothic death is.
Who's better than Edvamp?
BIG PIMPIN' IN NYC,
Brian
L'histoire du Posse: http://www.crackho.com/~bananas/
webcam: http://www.crackho.com/~bananas/webcam.html
o/~Ebony and ivory, live together in perfect harmony.
Side by side on my piano keyboard...
Oh, lordbiran, why don't we?
siani evans
Narnia wrote:
>
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 02:30:01 GMT, Puzzled <bakh...@yahoo.com> sang with
> gusto in alt.gothic:
>
> >"For you who is unaware, some denizens of the goth world in northern cali
> >band together to form the death guild and go every year to burn someone
> >to recreate a sort of gladiator match from Mad Mac Thunderdome,"
>
> No, no, no. Burning Man is an annual event that takes place in the
> desert. What the person was saying was that some goths from northern
> California go out to Burning Man and set up a really nifty camp there.
>
> It is called Burning Man because of the event where the burn a bunch of
> sticks made to look like a person. Absolutely nothing to do with
> you. There might be a website somewhere for it... do a websearch.
>
> > "Apathy. Maybe the confused jock will stop bugging us"
>
> Actually, that quote was "Apathy. Maybe the customer will stop bugging
> us." It was in a different thread, about geeky workplaces.
>
> >and how about "i *so* want to go to burn that guy. have for days
> >now... but now that i have the hearse i think i might actually do
> >it... load up a scooter or two, get some bedding in the back and just up
> >and go. but i don't know if i can afford that much gas"
>
> Siani wants to go to the event Burning Man, which she has wanted to go to
> for years.
>
> Paranoid, much?
oh wow. i didn't get that post. i think we have a tinhead alert!
excuse me, Puzzled? i think you dropped this. <holds out tinfoil hat>
it will help to keep the alien conspiracy from reading your mind.
siani
Lisiblac
Knox Velour wrote:
>
> >> "Goblins will feast on your buttocks! Your gums will
> >
>
"I SEEEELL SHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Lisiblac
Erika V.
Lisi...@home.com
Jet Boy
exile <ex...@21stcentury.net> wrote:
> } I'll
> } keep it all in perspective, hanging around with my own kind where
> } I'm
> } best appreciated and leaving well enough alone.
>
> You missed the point
And that, I think, IS the point.
$teve
I also hate yuppies and dorks infecting my nightlife
--
Charybdis26 at hotmail dot com
"Pain against unfair odds"