Victorian Cemeteries

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melss...@my-deja.com

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Mar 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/25/00
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Hi
I am interested in Victorian Cemeteries and their preservation. It
sounds rather morbid but these are wonderful places to spend a few
hours particularly if you are a fan of high gothic Victorian excess.
Perhaps the place to go in England is Kensal Green cemetary in North
London. This was the first municipal cemetery in Britain, opened in the
1830's. The cemetary inself produces a plan so that you can find many
Victorian notables who are buried there including Thackeray and Brunel.
Some of the more unusual tombs and monuments belong to wealthy
Londoners including quack doctors, lion tamers and the man responsible
for bringing the Electric light to London.
Highgate and Brompton are also good places to visit.
Has anyone discovered a local gem ???

Melanie


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Before you buy.

WMIAOU

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Mar 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/25/00
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Melanie wrote:
>Hi
>I am interested in Victorian Cemeteries and their preservation.

<snip>


>Has anyone discovered a local gem ???

Mt. Hope Cemetery in Rochester, NY is a lovely Victorian cemetery. It's the
only nice thing about this city. There also used to be catacombs running under
the avenue to the sunken garden behind the "castle" across the street, but the
city had them sealed up. Too many whippersnappers running around I guess.

Mina


Nigel ttf

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Mar 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/26/00
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Two here in Baltimore...one you really couldn't call
Victorian as most of the burial were early to mid 1800s, but it really is
interesting as a church was build on stilt over part of it and has the Grave
of Edgar Allen Poe, the Westminster Burial Grounds.

The second is the Greenmount Cemetary. IT is well kept up behind stone wall,
which is fortunate because it is in a really lousy neighborhood where the
inhabitant would have stolen or defaced all the statuary, yes mabee even moreso
because the community is black and the 'inhabitants' of the cemetary are rich
dead white people. The have some of the best examples of victorian death
statuary on the east coast of the U.S(barring NY and Boston). and one of the
first of the "Garden(or Rural) Cemetary movement" It is 60 acres+

Although if decay is your thing try the Mt Carmel cemetary off of Dundauk
Avenue, not as ritzy as
Greenmound it has fallen into severe disrepair as the woods have claimed most
of it, and you see empty shallows, trees growing throught the middle of
headstones, and vines everwhere


-MAHDHATTeR
"I tried to get in touch with my inner child but it ran away screaming 'BAD
TOUCH BAD TOUCH!'"
nigel t...@aol.com

oddlystrange

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Mar 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/27/00
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In article <8bi9u0$aae$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
melss...@my-deja.com wrote:

> Has anyone discovered a local gem ???

Hollywood Cemetery here in Richmond, Virginia. Its just an odd place,
walking through it is like walking through a time machine of cemetery
style. The oldest graves date to right before the Civil War (1860's) all
the way to a guy who died yesterday.

I've been trying to document some of the more fascinating graves in the
cemetery for about (ERK!) 8 years now. I still find something new every
time.

I guess among the notables buried there are the authors Ellen Glasgow
and James Branch Cabell. Two dead presidents: Wilson and Tyler. One dead
confederate president (the only dead confederate president) Jeff Davis.
And lots of Richmond notables.

Some of the more interesting graves are some of the children's graves,
the Poole grave which has a rumor that the inhabitant was convicted of
vampirism when he was alive (thought that's more cemetery legend than
fact). Jeff Davis's circle does contain some BEAUTIFUL statuary and the
like.

Even more interesting to me is a recent trend in grave decorations that
shows a return to the more ostentatious victorian style. Over the last
100 years or so most people got a upside down U shaped headstone with
perhaps the engraving of a flower or something and left it at that with
little else to decorate their final resting place... certainly nothing
like the oblisks and statues that accompany the victorian graves.

Last time I was in Hollywood I noticed a showing of small to medium
angels and other figures with some of the recent graves. Its nice to see
a return to the idea of distinguishing your uniqueness even in death.

oddlystrange

(who can prattle about hollywood for hours)

--
"You're not just popular -- you're pure lowest
common denominator." -- Futurama
--< http://www.obscure.org/~perky >--- - - - - - - - -

.
.

Endymion

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Mar 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/27/00
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oddlystrange <pe...@obscure.org> wrote

> > Has anyone discovered a local gem ???
>
> Hollywood Cemetery here in Richmond, Virginia.

Dammit, you beat me to it!

> Its just an odd place,
> walking through it is like walking through a time machine of cemetery
> style.

It should also be mentioned that it's one of the loveliest landscaped parks
in Richmond, or anywhere else I've seen on the east coast.

> I've been trying to document some of the more fascinating graves in the
> cemetery for about (ERK!) 8 years now. I still find something new every
> time.
>
> I guess among the notables buried there are the authors Ellen Glasgow
> and James Branch Cabell. Two dead presidents: Wilson and Tyler. One dead
> confederate president (the only dead confederate president) Jeff Davis.

Quick quiz for you: buried near Davis is the only man who was a general in
both the Confederate and postwar US armies - can you name him?

> Some of the more interesting graves are some of the children's graves,
> the Poole grave which has a rumor that the inhabitant was convicted of
> vampirism when he was alive (thought that's more cemetery legend than
> fact).

Poole has had something of a local cult following for decades now. IIRC
they finally locked up his mausoleum securely about 10 years ago, but for
years people would break in and try to break into the sarcophagus, and
there have also been animal sacrifices left at his grave and also that of
the three sisters (down by the river; I could find it but never tell you
where without being there) reputed to be powerful witches.

> Jeff Davis's circle does contain some BEAUTIFUL statuary and the like.

Is the seated mourning girl holding the poppies in Davis' circle or the
next one over? (It's been a while since I was there). I used to love that
one; during the 80's when all the local freaks went there at night that
statue was my favorite place to hang out. Don't worry, though, I was better
behaved than much of the crowd - I think half the people I knew in Richmond
back then lost their virginity in that cemetery. I did scale the pyramid
(the monument to confederate dead), though - but contrary to local rumor I
was NOT the one who planted the Day-Glo-green tennis ball on top that
stayed there for many years.

--
Endymion disintegra...@mindspring.com
Defensor Vini et Tabaci et Vitae Nimii
"Here lies one whose name was writ in water."

oddlystrange

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Mar 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/28/00
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In article
<01bf981e$66f5f860$324c...@crprm332.lexis-nexis.com>,

"Endymion" <disintegration@ SPAMTRAP mindspring.com> wrote:

> It should also be mentioned that it's one of the loveliest
landscaped parks
> in Richmond, or anywhere else I've seen on the east coast.

Indeed. Also one of the hilliest! I can't beleive I used to bike in
there. I'd die now if I tried!

> Quick quiz for you: buried near Davis is the only man who was a
general in
> both the Confederate and postwar US armies - can you name
him?

I want to say JEB Stuart but I know that's wrong (I keep on
mistaking it for the Stuart died here monument up where we live). I
actually know where that grave is. If you're walking towards the
Davis circle from the entrance (with the James River on your left)
its right there before the circle in a little traingle shaped area. He's
got an about 8 foot high oblisk with two swords on it.


> and also that of
> the three sisters (down by the river; I could find it but never tell
you
> where without being there) reputed to be powerful witches.

Hrm... I haven't heard about that one? What are their names? Oh
are you talking about the three graves with the upside down
crosses?

There's also a Prince and Princess burried up there. They were my
big finds last time (that and a HUGE copper angel that I'd never
seen before).


> Is the seated mourning girl holding the poppies in Davis' circle
or the
> next one over?

Its Davis's daughter. We just found out that all 5 of his children are
burried there. I think that's the only daugher he had that lived to
maturity.

I also like the angel with the book in Jeff Davis's circle and there's
also the lady hunched over mourning in president's circle.

There's a weird thing with that -- until my very last trip up there I
have not had a single picture of her come out. There's always
something bad that happens to that shot that prevented the picture
from coming out.

> Don't worry, though, I was better
> behaved than much of the crowd - I think half the people I knew
in Richmond
> back then lost their virginity in that cemetery.

There's lots of places to! For pete's sake!

> I did scale the pyramid
> (the monument to confederate dead), though - but contrary to
local rumor I
> was NOT the one who planted the Day-Glo-green tennis ball on
top that
> stayed there for many years.

Strangely that never impressed me all taht much. I guess because
where I grew up in Florida there was a giant pyrmaid mousoleum
up the street ....

oddlystrange'

(who admits that she used to think that the pyramid meant they
were in Egypt when I was really young)


--
"You're not just popular -- you're pure lowest
common denominator." -- Futurama
--< http://www.obscure.org/~perky >--- - - - - - - - -

Azoth

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Mar 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/28/00
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In article <8bi9u0$aae$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
melss...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi
> I am interested in Victorian Cemeteries and their preservation.
> Has anyone discovered a local gem ???

The Pere Lachaisse cemetery in Paris is incredibly beautiful and it
boasts the remains of Rossini, Voltaire, Chopin, Abelard and Eloise
and Jim Morrison (!)

--Azoth

maat

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Mar 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/29/00
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In article <8bi9u0$aae$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
melss...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi
> I am interested in Victorian Cemeteries and their preservation.
> Has anyone discovered a local gem ???
>

There are a couple in the Twin Cities worth noting. The first is
Lakewood Cemetery located at the Uptown end of Hennepin Avenue by Lake
Calhoun. It's really huge, and it's easy to get lost (believe me, I've
done it). It's the only cemetery around here that has mausoleums and
crypts carved into the hills. Hubert Humphrey is buried there. So are
all the rich tycoons and industrialists of the Twin Cities, including
several members of the Pillsbury family. There's a ton of statuary, and
a largish Civil War Memorial to the First Minnesota regiment, most of
whom didn't make it back alive. It's located in a really wealthy
neighborhood, so safety isn't a problem, but the security guys are a
pain in the tuchus.

The Second is the Soldier's and Sailor's Cemetery. It's located near
the intersection of Lake and Hiawatha in Minneapolis. It is the oldest
cemetery of the Twin Cities (this city is young--the oldest graves are
from the early 19th century). Lakewood still has burials, but this
cemetery has been closed to new graves for quite some time. There is a
children's section worth noting. the whole place is only one block
square, and right next to a busy street. Being able to see the Kentucky
Fried Chicken on the other side of the gate kind of takes away from the
atmosphere. It's also located in a rather rough neighborhood (not quite
"the 'hood" but close), so don't go alone unless you know the area
really well.

Being a taphophile myself, I have been meaning to do a survey of the
different cemeteries in the area. If I ever get around to having a
homepage (not likely) that's what will be on it.

--maat
--
ICQ #64736536

Eriphyle

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Mar 29, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/29/00
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once upon a time maat wrote:

> There are a couple in the Twin Cities worth noting. The first is
> Lakewood Cemetery located at the Uptown end of Hennepin Avenue by Lake
> Calhoun. It's really huge, and it's easy to get lost (believe me, I've
> done it). It's the only cemetery around here that has mausoleums and
> crypts carved into the hills. Hubert Humphrey is buried there. So are
> all the rich tycoons and industrialists of the Twin Cities, including
> several members of the Pillsbury family. There's a ton of statuary, and
> a largish Civil War Memorial to the First Minnesota regiment, most of
> whom didn't make it back alive. It's located in a really wealthy
> neighborhood, so safety isn't a problem, but the security guys are a
> pain in the tuchus.

(*nods*) It's a good one. I go there and try to find the most ostentatious
mourning figure I can (you know, the women in Greek draperies weeping over
urns and the like) and crown them with woven dandelion crowns. Much fun.

> The Second is the Soldier's and Sailor's Cemetery.

It's the Soldiers' and Pioneers' Cemetary, actually. Nitpicky, I know, but
still...

> It's located near the intersection of Lake and Hiawatha in Minneapolis.
> It is the oldest
> cemetery of the Twin Cities (this city is young--the oldest graves are
> from the early 19th century). Lakewood still has burials, but this
> cemetery has been closed to new graves for quite some time.

Um, no. *If* you have a family plot that isn't full, you can be buried
there. I saw a tombstone/recent burial dated 1998 on my last trip. It's
just very, very close to full. (For some reason, they don't want to open up
the potter's field area where all the epidemic mass graves are. Ya
think?...)

> There is a children's section worth noting. the whole place is only one
> block
> square, and right next to a busy street. Being able to see the Kentucky
> Fried Chicken on the other side of the gate kind of takes away from the
> atmosphere. It's also located in a rather rough neighborhood (not quite
> "the 'hood" but close), so don't go alone unless you know the area
> really well.

There are many tombstones in foreign tongues, mostly Swedish and German. At
one point I had a scale map of the place, color coded by grave date and
tombstone type (tablet, double tablet, sculpted, etc.) I live quite nearby,
within walking distance. I need to find that map.

> Being a taphophile myself, I have been meaning to do a survey of the
> different cemeteries in the area. If I ever get around to having a
> homepage (not likely) that's what will be on it.

If you want help, it sounds like a lot of fun!

E.


maat

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Mar 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/30/00
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Eriphyle wrote:
>
> once upon a time maat wrote:
>

<Snip description of Lakewood>


>
> (*nods*) It's a good one. I go there and try to find the most ostentatious
> mourning figure I can (you know, the women in Greek draperies weeping over
> urns and the like) and crown them with woven dandelion crowns. Much fun.
>
> > The Second is the Soldier's and Sailor's Cemetery.
>
> It's the Soldiers' and Pioneers' Cemetary, actually. Nitpicky, I know, but
> still...

Oh, I knew it was something like that. Couldn't remember it, though.



> > It's located near the intersection of Lake and Hiawatha in Minneapolis.
> > It is the oldest
> > cemetery of the Twin Cities (this city is young--the oldest graves are
> > from the early 19th century). Lakewood still has burials, but this
> > cemetery has been closed to new graves for quite some time.
>
> Um, no. *If* you have a family plot that isn't full, you can be buried
> there. I saw a tombstone/recent burial dated 1998 on my last trip. It's
> just very, very close to full. (For some reason, they don't want to open up
> the potter's field area where all the epidemic mass graves are. Ya
> think?...)

There's a Potter's Field? I've only been in Soldiers' once, and that
was a while ago. I must have missed that.



> > There is a children's section worth noting. the whole place is only one
> > block
> > square, and right next to a busy street. Being able to see the Kentucky
> > Fried Chicken on the other side of the gate kind of takes away from the
> > atmosphere. It's also located in a rather rough neighborhood (not quite
> > "the 'hood" but close), so don't go alone unless you know the area
> > really well.
>
> There are many tombstones in foreign tongues, mostly Swedish and German. At
> one point I had a scale map of the place, color coded by grave date and
> tombstone type (tablet, double tablet, sculpted, etc.) I live quite nearby,
> within walking distance. I need to find that map.

Yep. And Don't forget those funky metal crosses. Or were they wooden?

Geez, I really need to go back there. It's been a while.

> > Being a taphophile myself, I have been meaning to do a survey of the
> > different cemeteries in the area. If I ever get around to having a
> > homepage (not likely) that's what will be on it.
>
> If you want help, it sounds like a lot of fun!

Are there any other old cemeteries in the TC area that I missed, or that
are worth noting?

--maat

--
ICQ #64736536

Eriphyle

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Mar 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/30/00
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once upon a time maat wrote:

> > Um, no. *If* you have a family plot that isn't full, you can be buried
> > there. I saw a tombstone/recent burial dated 1998 on my last trip. It's
> > just very, very close to full. (For some reason, they don't want to open up
> > the potter's field area where all the epidemic mass graves are. Ya
> > think?...)
>
> There's a Potter's Field? I've only been in Soldiers' once, and that
> was a while ago. I must have missed that.

It's in the northeast quadrant, the area beyond the hill where there are no/few
tombstones. Or, using the landmarks you mentioned, in the area right behind the
Burger King. If you make an appointment, the caretaker may let you browse the
burial records in the office. The records are quite good, and complete. I think
there are 17 mass graves, but it's been many years since I've looked at the
records-- (*counts on fingers*) almost eleven years.

One of the projects I've wanted to volunteer for was to work on its restoration.
Behind the office is a pile of broken tombstones, waiting to be reunited with
their graves. My masonry skills are passable, enough to mortar them together,
and god knows I love to sift through records. What a neat, historical jigsaw
puzzle.

> Are there any other old cemeteries in the TC area that I missed, or that
> are worth noting?

(*shrugs*) I need to check out my notebook. It's in a box in the basement, one
of many unlabelled boxes of Stuff to Deal With. I'll dig it out and flip through
it for you.

E.


lee

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Mar 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/30/00
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mne...@isd.net (Eriphyle) wrote in <38E34D4E...@isd.net>:

>One of the projects I've wanted to volunteer for was to work on its
>restoration. Behind the office is a pile of broken tombstones, waiting
>to be reunited with their graves. My masonry skills are passable,
>enough to mortar them together, and god knows I love to sift through
>records. What a neat, historical jigsaw puzzle.

oh? can you give me hints on repairing a slate gravestone? i have all the
pieces, but no idea how to fix it.
is there anywhere that teaches slate engraving still? i could make a
copy...
um, in case anyone might think i swiped a gravestone or something... no.
this is on my property. the first wife of the guy that built the house.
died at 18 in childbirth. it has a really nice epitaph.
lee

...kelly...

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Mar 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/30/00
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In article melss...@my-deja.com wrote:

> Has anyone discovered a local gem ???

In article melss...@my-deja.com wrote:

> Has anyone discovered a local gem ???

Forest Lawn in Buffalo is quite impressive. (www.forest-lawn.com) Not
only is it _huge_, but the city (or the cemetary's owners) are actually
concerned with preservation.

They sell a book that describes some of the monuments of note to raise
funds, do a motor trolly tour of the cemetary on Sndays in the Spring
and Summer (for free!), complete with costumed actors at interesting
locations, had an exhibit of sculpture in the gardent last summer, and
I think they've done halloween tours describing all the supposedly
haunted sites.

It's nice because they attempt to do more than focus on the cemetary as
a place of death or mourning. Back when it was built (over 150 years
ago)it was quite a fashonable place for the city's elite to go for
weekend picnics and the like. Now there are people (and not just
goths) who think nothing of having a picnic at their reflecting pool.
In fact, our local paper did an article on the best picnic spots in the
city and it rated in the top 10!

--
One should either be a work of art, or wear a work of art.
assorted homepage type things http://www.velvet.net/~kelly
Gothic Buffalo- ring, list, guide, & more http://www.velvet.net/~kelly
khw...@acsu.buffalo.edu ke...@velvet.net AIM Squee13

--
One should either be a work of art, or wear a work of art.
assorted homepage type things http://www.velvet.net/~kelly
Gothic Buffalo- ring, list, guide, & more http://www.velvet.net/~kelly
khw...@acsu.buffalo.edu ke...@velvet.net AIM Squee13

Endymion

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Mar 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/30/00
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oddlystrange <pe...@obscure.org> wrote

> > Quick quiz for you: buried near Davis is the only man who was a
> general in
> > both the Confederate and postwar US armies - can you name
> him?
>
> I want to say JEB Stuart but I know that's wrong (I keep on
> mistaking it for the Stuart died here monument up where we live). I
> actually know where that grave is. If you're walking towards the
> Davis circle from the entrance (with the James River on your left)
> its right there before the circle in a little traingle shaped area. He's
> got an about 8 foot high oblisk with two swords on it.

That's it. It's Fitzhugh Lee (R.E.'s nephew). Stuart was mortally wounded
in Hanover County and died in a house on West Franklin Street, very near
his statue.

> > and also that of
> > the three sisters (down by the river; I could find it but never tell
> you
> > where without being there) reputed to be powerful witches.
>
> Hrm... I haven't heard about that one? What are their names? Oh
> are you talking about the three graves with the upside down
> crosses?

No, it's a big mausoleum. I don't know the names, but I think I'd recognize
the place if I saw it.

> There's also a Prince and Princess burried up there. They were my
> big finds last time

I didn't know that - who and where?

(snip)

> > Don't worry, though, I was better
> > behaved than much of the crowd - I think half the people I knew
> > in Richmond
> > back then lost their virginity in that cemetery.
>
> There's lots of places to! For pete's sake!

The most popular spot - in or around the River overlook; there are two
slabs in a little bricked in area; I used to remember the names but now all
I remember is that the woman's first name was Winifred.

I've always had mixed feeling about that whole issue; on the one hand, I
believe in respect for the dead and for their survivors, but OTOH it's not
the same as vandalism, and if I were to be buried (which is unlikely) I'd
like to think people would get some productive and/or fun use out of my
grave.

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