Nina Hagen made Goth! Am I wrong?
Surfer Bob
Hi all,
Most goth people I've ever met or heard of tell me that
Nina Hagen is NOT goth. Maybe Queen of Punk, or something like that, but
not goth. OK. Whatever. They should know.
But I saw Nina Hagen perform at the Berkeley Community Theater in about
1985 or so. I had never seen even 5% as many extremely goth people in
one place before in my life, nor have I since. I walked around for a
while before the show and on about six occasions I exclaimed to myself,
"WOW! Now THAT'S the most outrageously (gothic) look I've EVER seen in
my LIFE!" White cake makeup. Blackest victorian era clothes. Silver
jewelry. Ahnks. Bats. Crosses. Outrageous hair dyed blackest black, or
crimson red. Gaunt cheekbones. Dark, extreme eye makeup. Well dressed
ghouls. In those days, I had yet to hear the word GOTHIC applied to a
fashion, or lifestyle. At the time I thought of them as "death Fashion"
or PIB's (People In Black). These people were NOT here to see The
Pandoras (the opening act, a retro girl band of B52's wannabes.)
Then Nina and her band took the stage, and they were more outrageously
gothic than ANYONE in the audience. They were like Rocky Horror,
sepulchral, post-punk, post-glam, appocalyptic opera rockers. Kind of
Cleopatra meets The Undead. They were sexy. They were scary. They were
dark. They wore silver bats. They were half naked. They were loud. They
were tight. They rocked the ceiling off that place, and I really
couldn't tell if Nina had truly been possessed by the Devil (or
something like), or if she simply believed it passionately. She made
quite an impression. She blew my mind.
The alt.gothic FAQ says Siouxie and the Banshees are supposed to be the
seminal goth band. Bauhaus, The Cult, and a few other '80's and '90's
bands are mentioned. It says goth grew out of punk and cites Siouxie as
making that transition. But no reference to Nina Hagen. It says in 1978
Siouxie first called it goth. In 1979 Bauhaus was called goth in the
rock press. OK. The Nina Hagen Band's first album is 1978 (I think).
Right in there, seems to me.
What do you all think about Nina Hagen? Don't you think goth owes a tip
of the black hat to this amazing woman? I think she and her band were
very innovative, absolutely riveting performers in the seminal days of
goth. I mean, am I wrong? What I saw in 1985 epitomizes everything I've
heard of or seen goth become in the 11 years since then.
Do any of you speak german? Has anyone ever told you what the lyrics of
her songs are like? It's very dark stuff. Some is very introspective.
But not all that's dark is gothic?
The Nina Hagen Band came from the same roots as goth. They packed
concert halls with goths back when people were still figuring out what
to call it. They looked goth as goths describe it. They sounded goth as
goths describe it. If they weren't goth, then would someone please split
some hairs and explain the difference to me?
Darkly yours,
Wellereitende Bob
Motorcycle Boy
In article <32B0CE...@geog.ucsb.edu>, Surfer Bob <rta...@geog.ucsb.edu> says:
>
>Hi all,
>
>Most goth people I've ever met or heard of tell me that
>Nina Hagen is NOT goth. Maybe Queen of Punk, or something like that, but
>not goth. OK. Whatever. They should know.
What difference does it make?
*BIG snip*
>The Nina Hagen Band came from the same roots as goth. They packed
>concert halls with goths back when people were still figuring out what
>to call it. They looked goth as goths describe it. They sounded goth as
>goths describe it. If they weren't goth, then would someone please split
>some hairs and explain the difference to me?
I remember listening to Nina Hagen, years ago. Her vocals were a lot of
screeching and deep throated groaning, with high notes that were almost
operatic. The only song that I can remember the words to, though, is
"Punk Wedding". I vaguely remember liking Nina Hagen, but I never thought
of her as Gothic. But then again, who cares? Punk, Gothic, big deal...
Why are you worried about it?
I wonder what ever happened to Nina Hagen?
Motorcycle Boy
Jennifer Bamber-Repcik
Motorcycle Boy <ra...@cadvision.com> wrote in article
<58r5pj$29...@elmo.cadvision.com>...
>
> I wonder what ever happened to Nina Hagen?
>
> Motorcycle Boy
Oooh, it's too juicy for words...
She was recently arrested in Los Angeles for hitting her husband over the
head with a wine bottle and running down the strret screaming while she
brandished it him. She was in jail for 3 days booked on spousal abuse. The
newspaper (Santa Monica's "Evening Outlook", in case anyone cares) also
posted her age; something frightening like 51.
So that answers the question of what ole Nina is up to now.
-Jennifer Bamber-Repcik
>
>
>
Canticle
*blink*
Wow, someone else who remembers Nena. I was at the bar last night and they
played some of her stuff (Retro 80's night), and Matt and I were the only
ones out on the dance floor for it (a combinaiton of the fact that anyone
within 5 feet of us was in mortal peril and the fact people at Retro 80's
didn't seem to take to either Nena or Falco's Rock Me Amadeus :)).
It's even cooler when you understand moderate amounts of German.
Jeff-boy
Jennifer Bamber-Repcik
Cruel Parthenesa <sal...@freenet.msp.mn.us> wrote:
>So Jennifer, what is so 'frightening' about being 51? She got there,
>strangely enough, be being alive. Are you planning on killing yourself
>to avoid something equally 'frightening'? If not, get used to it. The
>Goths that came before you are your PARENTS age. The goths that come
>after you will be young enough to be YOUR children. Thank god she's
>still onery enough to want to bash someone in the head at 50+ instead of
>just sitting there flipping through Women's Day and mouthing 'Yes Dear'
>to every inanity her husband might say.
>- CP
Well, first of all, let me just say that I am no spring chicken
myself. I certainly did not intend to offend, but I was honestly
shocked to read that she was in her 50's (or whatever), when she
easily looks half her age.
No malice intended. :)
-JBR
Cruel Parthenesa
Cruel Parthenesa
Barry Lancaster
>newspaper (Santa Monica's "Evening Outlook", in case anyone cares) also
>posted her age; something frightening like 51.
>
>So that answers the question of what ole Nina is up to now.
Um, Nina Hagen is 41, not 51. :) She's still making great albums and
touring like crazy, too.
--BL
Nina Hagen Electronic Shrine -- http://www.primenet.com/~spork/nina/
========================================================
Of all the mindless, pointless sports that people play, why did
golf have to be the one that MY ancestors invented? -- Me
========================================================
Janeira St. Clare
On Fri, 13 Dec 1996 17:26:10 -0600, "Canticle" <cant...@aratar.mb.ca>
wrote:
>*blink*
>
>Wow, someone else who remembers Nena.
Heck, I even have one of her albums.
> I was at the bar last night and they
>played some of her stuff (Retro 80's night), and Matt and I were the only
>ones out on the dance floor for it (a combinaiton of the fact that anyone
>within 5 feet of us was in mortal peril and the fact people at Retro 80's
>didn't seem to take to either Nena or Falco's Rock Me Amadeus :)).
<snort> Kids today. I just came back from an 80's (used) tape/CD
shopping spree: Adam Ant, Billy Idol, Siouxsie, Public Image Ltd,
Bannanorama, INXS, and Tom Tom Club.
No Wall of Voodoo or Haysi Fantayzee though. <pout> Good thing I
have some of their stuff on LP.
- Janeira
----
"That is the interesting thing about | Moving like a wraith with
paranoia - evidence of fact is not | a Purpose,
fact, but instead it points to a | At home in the Empire Down
larger collusion." nish in exile | jstc...@worldnet.att.net
b.c.
Canticle wrote:
>
> *blink*
>
> Wow, someone else who remembers Nena. I was at the bar last night and they
> played some of her stuff (Retro 80's night), and Matt and I were the only
> ones out on the dance floor for it (a combinaiton of the fact that anyone
> within 5 feet of us was in mortal peril and the fact people at Retro 80's
> didn't seem to take to either Nena or Falco's Rock Me Amadeus :)).
>
Unless it's "New York, New York" -Then it's cool and singable to
someone who doesnt know German. I love that song.
b.c.
Gothpat
sp...@primenet.com (Barry Lancaster) wrote:
>>newspaper (Santa Monica's "Evening Outlook", in case anyone cares) also
>>posted her age; something frightening like 51.
>>
>>So that answers the question of what ole Nina is up to now.
>Um, Nina Hagen is 41, not 51. :) She's still making great albums and
>touring like crazy, too.
I loved "Too Bad"...which is played often in Chicago goth clubs.
I saw her in the 80's as well, and have "New York, New York", "White
Punks on Dope" and other stuff on vinyl.
Nina rules!
GothPat...41? I always thought she was older than me...
Former chicago US goth now Cheltenham UK goth
Web page under construction at:
http://www.epinet.co.uk/~gothpat/
Surfer Bob
Motorcycle Boy wrote:
> I vaguely remember liking Nina Hagen, but I never thought
> of her as Gothic. But then again, who cares? Punk, Gothic, big deal...
> Why are you worried about it?
I took many contributors to this group as rather narrow in their musical
opinions and tried to bait a few. But few have risen to the troll. I'm
not that worried about it actually.
>
> I wonder what ever happened to Nina Hagen anyways?
I just did a net search on her name and guess what? She's into some sort
of hindu based mysticism now. Has a swami. Interesting for one who was
once so outrageously irreverent.
I'm outa here,
Surfer Bob
Marc LoCascio
In article Surfer Bob <rta...@geog.ucsb.edu> wrote:
>
> Most goth people I've ever met or heard of tell me that
"most goth people" are clueless and weren't paying much attention in
the late 70's when the scene started. the three women who pretty much
defined what would be become the goth style in the early days were
Siouxsie (of course), Nina ("NunSexMonkRock" is a classic), and Lena
Lovich (check out "Flex" for white wedding dress, black braids, black
lipstick, and black nail polish in *1979*). we're talking the 70's
here, kiddies, not the 80's.
Marc (grandpaw goth)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Marc LoCascio + m...@media.mit.edu
Young Chang R & D Institute + ma...@ycrdi.com
Waltham, Mass. + http://sinister.com/~dethany/mbl.html
David S Sachdev
Marc LoCascio (ma...@ycrdi.com) wrote:
: In article Surfer Bob <rta...@geog.ucsb.edu> wrote:
: >
: > Most goth people I've ever met or heard of tell me that
: > Nina Hagen is NOT goth. Maybe Queen of Punk, or something like that...
: "most goth people" are clueless and weren't paying much attention in
: the late 70's when the scene started. the three women who pretty much
: defined what would be become the goth style in the early days were
: Siouxsie (of course), Nina ("NunSexMonkRock" is a classic), and Lena
: Lovich (check out "Flex" for white wedding dress, black braids, black
: lipstick, and black nail polish in *1979*). we're talking the 70's
: here, kiddies, not the 80's.
Mention the 70's gothic scene, and leave out Joy Division (hmmmm
- what a shame), and how about Kraftwerk, and Bauhaus...
Marc LoCascio
Marc LoCascio wrote:
>
> David S Sachdev wrote:
> >
> > Mention the 70's gothic scene, and leave out Joy Division
>
> not really. they seemed like more of a bad wannabe disco band
> at the time. (and New Order simply confirmed that a few years later.)
damn, but i'm cranky before i finish my first cup of coffee in the
morning. ;-)
that was flame bait, folks. please let's not turn this into a Joy
Division discussion.
Marc (who actually did like "Love Will Tear Us Apart" the first
hundred or so times he heard it)
Marc LoCascio
David S Sachdev wrote:
>
> Mention the 70's gothic scene, and leave out Joy Division
> (hmmmm - what a shame)...
not really. they seemed like more of a bad wannabe disco band
at the time. (and New Order simply confirmed that a few years later.)
> and how about Kraftwerk, and Bauhaus...
i was talking about *women* who shaped gothic style, so unless there's
something i don't know about Ian Curtis or Peter Murphy your comment
is moot.
Marc
Moriarty
Let's just say you get a copy of our home-game.
Yours, &c.
-M.
Surfer Bob
David S Sachdev wrote:
>
> Marc LoCascio (ma...@ycrdi.com) wrote:
> : the three women who pretty much
> : defined what would be become the goth style in the early days were
> : Siouxsie (of course), Nina ("NunSexMonkRock" is a classic), and Lena
> : Lovich (check out "Flex" for white wedding dress, black braids, black
> : lipstick, and black nail polish in *1979*). we're talking the 70's
> : here, kiddies, not the 80's.
So I wrote:
Thank you David, that's about what I thought.
Maybe it's time to amend the alt.gothic FAQ to reflect this history?
ONly Siouxie is mentioned there as a goth progenitor.
We owe it to the kids to preserve the history...
Later,
Surfer Bob
Whisky Dave
Did she ever release The Lords prayer in German as a B side.?
--
***http://gryphon.elec.qmw.ac.uk/~davew/personal/personal.html Sept 96 ***
http://www.elec.qmw.ac.uk/~davew/personal/sunshot/sunshot.html 15th Aug 96
molly grabill
Siouxsie I would agree with. Nina Hagen? Uh, a little more
experimental disco than goth. You can't just judge her on the
Nunsexmonkrock album, though I think that is her best. She was a fore-
runner to modern "alternative" if you want to call it that, but goth?
No, I have to disagree.
-Molly
In <32B840...@geog.ucsb.edu> Surfer Bob <rta...@geog.ucsb.edu>
writes:
Storm
: : "most goth people" are clueless and weren't paying much attention in
: : the late 70's when the scene started. the three women who pretty much
: : defined what would be become the goth style in the early days were
: : Siouxsie (of course), Nina ("NunSexMonkRock" is a classic), and Lena
: : Lovich (check out "Flex" for white wedding dress, black braids, black
: : lipstick, and black nail polish in *1979*). we're talking the 70's
: : here, kiddies, not the 80's.
: Mention the 70's gothic scene, and leave out Joy Division (hmmmm
: - what a shame), and how about Kraftwerk, and Bauhaus...
Maybe I wasn't paying attention, but there weren't too many women
in Joy Division, Bauhaus or Kraftwerk who defined the goth style,
were there?
--
n | g David Carson GothCode 2.5 :
e -+- o goth at large. GoCS6$ TZ cBkLb(Br)w7 PSaNaL M2 s9
t | t "Give me money, give me sex, ZGoPuoMeb C8o a22 b56 H181 g7L w6L
. | h give me food & net access!!" r2Is h5TFe k6 RN SeNn N0492 LauNSW
Siobhan NiLoughlin
Marc LoCascio <ma...@ycrdi.com> wrote:
>In article Surfer Bob <rta...@geog.ucsb.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Most goth people I've ever met or heard of tell me that
>> Nina Hagen is NOT goth. Maybe Queen of Punk, or something like that...
>"most goth people" are clueless and weren't paying much attention in
>the late 70's when the scene started. the three women who pretty much
>defined what would be become the goth style in the early days were
>Siouxsie (of course), Nina ("NunSexMonkRock" is a classic), and Lena
>Lovich (check out "Flex" for white wedding dress, black braids, black
>lipstick, and black nail polish in *1979*). we're talking the 70's
>here, kiddies, not the 80's.
Lena Lovich sure, but I'm not so sure about Nina Hagen.
Patti Smith, maybe.
Siobhan
...Normal is what cuts off your sixth finger and your tail...
Brenda Johnson
All I know about Nina Hagen is that her version of "White Punks On Dope"
(EP, in German) was my absolute favorite stereo wars album in college.
Some idiot in my apartment building would crank AC/DC or Van Halen at
some inappropriate volume/hour and well, I'd retaliate. Helped that at
the time we were using two big road speakers and an industrial amp . . .
The combination would shake the plates in my kitchen cupboards.
End result was I won every time. Oh-- second favorite stereo wars album
was Neil Young's Reactor album (cut of choice was "Opera Star"). Hee
hee. Hope this gives some of you some thoughts. . .
Brenda