convergence, ghosts

[kest]

*sigh* What happened to 'Convergence is a family reunion.' Why do people
keep wanting to bring 'street teams' and flyers into it?

Did I not ask the committee if they knew the current ideal for the
thing? Is it worth saying something? Will it do any good or will it
just cause drama? Maybe it's time to declare Convergence dead, like
a.g. is apparently dead and just start organizing explicit 'reunions'
instead.

I know there was a lot of conversation last year, of which I missed the
official bit but heard about it after, about what Convergence is and
should be and how to make it not a complete money pit for organizers,
which I empathize with. And some of the conclusions I heard were that
there should be more documentation, as there is a wealth of knowledge
that doesn't always get shared. And maybe we do in fact need some new
blood if it is going to continue - this place may be an echoing shell,
but net.goth isn't, and there could very well be a net.goth community
for the modern age if someone wanted to apply some organization to the
problem. Or not - maybe there isn't any there there. It's hard to tell.

I've been flirting lately with a new community, completely unrelated to
this or really any other communities I'm a part of. And it's got
something I haven't seen around the net in many years - people are
meeting new people, making new connections. And then they are meeting
each other IRL. From casually thrown together local meetups in various
metropolises to bigger organized weekend-long get-togethers in Vegas,
etc. I wonder where they will be in 20 years.

I wonder if we have eaten all the meat off our bones and all that is
left is the increasingly grotesque skeleton.

k, who just wants to see you guys

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 23:09:25 -0800, kest wrote:
> *sigh* What happened to 'Convergence is a family reunion.' Why do people
> keep wanting to bring 'street teams' and flyers into it?
>
> Did I not ask the committee if they knew the current ideal for the
> thing? Is it worth saying something? Will it do any good or will it
> just cause drama? Maybe it's time to declare Convergence dead, like
> a.g. is apparently dead and just start organizing explicit 'reunions'
> instead.

I like the name though. I'm perfectly happy with Cozumel having been a
Convergence, even though half the people there were "friends from back
home" anyway. But I wanna keep the name, even if it's a semi-public
vacation like GothCrusie.

> I know there was a lot of conversation last year, of which I missed the
> official bit but heard about it after, about what Convergence is and
> should be and how to make it not a complete money pit for organizers,
> which I empathize with. And some of the conclusions I heard were that
> there should be more documentation, as there is a wealth of knowledge
> that doesn't always get shared. And maybe we do in fact need some new
> blood if it is going to continue - this place may be an echoing shell,
> but net.goth isn't, and there could very well be a net.goth community
> for the modern age if someone wanted to apply some organization to the
> problem. Or not - maybe there isn't any there there. It's hard to tell.

In some cases, it's a lack of knowledge and experience but the real
factor in the occasional loss of Convergence shirt is a gross
overestimation of the number of attendees. Sometimes that's a problem in
actual planning, sometimes it's wishful thinking gotten out of hand,
sometimes it's just really bad timing. And I think a lot of committees
realize that this is where the risk is and choose one of two paths to go
down: Try to get the numbers back up to meet the budget, or rescale the
budget to meet the numbers. Usually the former, with mixed success.

> I've been flirting lately with a new community, completely unrelated to
> this or really any other communities I'm a part of. And it's got
> something I haven't seen around the net in many years - people are
> meeting new people, making new connections. And then they are meeting
> each other IRL. From casually thrown together local meetups in various
> metropolises to bigger organized weekend-long get-togethers in Vegas,
> etc. I wonder where they will be in 20 years.

Either nearly gone or 50,000 people and full of tin-pot dictators and
politics. It takes continual, deliberate effort to stay small and
thrive.

> I wonder if we have eaten all the meat off our bones and all that is
> left is the increasingly grotesque skeleton.
>
> k, who just wants to see you guys

That part can happen. It just takes the decision to make it a priority.
And Convergence dates and places move for a reason, so it doesn't
interfere with the same thing every year and it's not always someplace
that's very far away. Unless you're on the wrong continent, in which
case, enjoy your Whitby and WGT, and we'll keep sending representatives.
The point is, though, if someone's missing *most* Convergences, they've
got bigger concerns than can be fixed by changing Convergence somehow.

--
89. After I capture the hero's superweapon, I will not immediately
disband my legions and relax my guard because I believe whoever
holds the weapon is unstoppable. After all, the hero held the
weapon and I took it from him. --Anspach's Evil Overlord list

[StreetRunner]

On 2/1/2013 7:36 AM, Peter H. Coffin wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 23:09:25 -0800, kest wrote:
>> *sigh* What happened to 'Convergence is a family reunion.' Why do people
>> keep wanting to bring 'street teams' and flyers into it?
>>
>> Did I not ask the committee if they knew the current ideal for the
>> thing? Is it worth saying something? Will it do any good or will it
>> just cause drama? Maybe it's time to declare Convergence dead, like
>> a.g. is apparently dead and just start organizing explicit 'reunions'
>> instead.
>
> I like the name though. I'm perfectly happy with Cozumel having been a
> Convergence, even though half the people there were "friends from back
> home" anyway. But I wanna keep the name, even if it's a semi-public
> vacation like GothCrusie.

They are writing bad stories about how the pope is in the news.

>> I know there was a lot of conversation last year, of which I missed the
>> official bit but heard about it after, about what Convergence is and
>> should be and how to make it not a complete money pit for organizers,
>> which I empathize with. And some of the conclusions I heard were that
>> there should be more documentation, as there is a wealth of knowledge
>> that doesn't always get shared. And maybe we do in fact need some new
>> blood if it is going to continue - this place may be an echoing shell,
>> but net.goth isn't, and there could very well be a net.goth community
>> for the modern age if someone wanted to apply some organization to the
>> problem. Or not - maybe there isn't any there there. It's hard to tell.
>
> In some cases, it's a lack of knowledge and experience but the real
> factor in the occasional loss of Convergence shirt is a gross
> overestimation of the number of attendees. Sometimes that's a problem in
> actual planning, sometimes it's wishful thinking gotten out of hand,
> sometimes it's just really bad timing. And I think a lot of committees
> realize that this is where the risk is and choose one of two paths to go
> down: Try to get the numbers back up to meet the budget, or rescale the
> budget to meet the numbers. Usually the former, with mixed success.
>

/Get a bad boy band to coverlist.

>> I've been flirting lately with a new community, completely unrelated to
>> this or really any other communities I'm a part of. And it's got
>> something I haven't seen around the net in many years - people are
>> meeting new people, making new connections. And then they are meeting
>> each other IRL. From casually thrown together local meetups in various
>> metropolises to bigger organized weekend-long get-togethers in Vegas,
>> etc. I wonder where they will be in 20 years.
>
> Either nearly gone or 50,000 people and full of tin-pot dictators and
> politics. It takes continual, deliberate effort to stay small and
> thrive.
>

Stop

>> I wonder if we have eaten all the meat off our bones and all that is
>> left is the increasingly grotesque skeleton.
>>
>> k, who just wants to see you guys
>
> That part can happen. It just takes the decision to make it a priority.
> And Convergence dates and places move for a reason, so it doesn't
> interfere with the same thing every year and it's not always someplace
> that's very far away. Unless you're on the wrong continent, in which
> case, enjoy your Whitby and WGT, and we'll keep sending representatives.
> The point is, though, if someone's missing *most* Convergences, they've
> got bigger concerns than can be fixed by changing Convergence somehow.
>


--

It goes a thousand miles an hour.

[Siobhan]

On Feb 1, 2:09 am, kest <k...@removethedamnspamtrap.nettrip.org>
wrote:

> *sigh* What happened to 'Convergence is a family reunion.' Why do people
> keep wanting to bring 'street teams' and flyers into it?
>
> Did I not ask the committee if they knew the current ideal for the
> thing?  Is it worth saying something?  Will it do any good or will it
> just cause drama?  Maybe it's time to declare Convergence dead, like
> a.g. is apparently dead and just start organizing explicit 'reunions'
> instead.

There were plans at one point to have an alternate to Convergence
where people just showed up in the same place at the same time and did
whatever the town had to offer for the weekend - no bands or fashion
shows, just a hotel, a transit pass and list of cool restaurants/clubs/
museums.

I occasionally wonder if people would vote for something like that.

Siobhan

[Dr. Frank N. Furter]

On Friday, February 1, 2013 1:09:25 AM UTC-6, kest wrote:
> *sigh* What happened to 'Convergence is a family reunion.' Why do people
> keep wanting to bring 'street teams' and flyers into it?

[remainder snipped for brevity]

I don't quite remember how few people bothered to vote this year, but if it's a family reunion then it's a badly shrunken family. I didn't go to 15-18 because every winning proposal looked dull. If I make it this year, it'll be last-minute but only because I know (and was a miniscule part of) the job Guymon did at Convergence 5.

But, to answer your question, a badly shrunken family can't, by itself, support an event worth traveling for. Judging by the attendance and voting numbers I've seen, I'm one of hundreds who feel the same way.

If a.g old farts feel strongly enough about not wanting to hang out with others who have different ideas, then by all means kill off Convergence, give up the voting process and make it a reunion or a hangout in some random place, whatever.

I for one would rather not see it devolve to that point. The goth scene in general needs people trying to revive it and make it grow; Convergence in my opinion was and should be part of that. The world already has the insignificant and laughable yearly failure that is Southern Gothic Festival, if one wants a reason to meet up where there are no bands worth seeing and nothing exciting happening. We need ambition, not the lack of it.

- Dr. Frank N. Furter
- A Scientist

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Mon, 8 Apr 2013 11:57:44 -0700 (PDT), Dr. Frank N. Furter wrote:

> I for one would rather not see it devolve to that point. The goth
> scene in general needs people trying to revive it and make it grow;
> Convergence in my opinion was and should be part of that. The world
> already has the insignificant and laughable yearly failure that is
> Southern Gothic Festival, if one wants a reason to meet up where there
> are no bands worth seeing and nothing exciting happening. We need
> ambition, not the lack of it.

You'd like this one. 25+ bands, a dozen djs, three venues going from 7PM
to 1, for three nights in a row, plus a night of pre-party and things
going on at the hotel WHILE the bands and DJs are going.

--
The light at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train.

It is muzzle-flash.

[Dr. Frank N. Furter]

On Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:37:23 AM UTC-5, Peter H. Coffin wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Apr 2013 11:57:44 -0700 (PDT), Dr. Frank N. Furter wrote:
>
>
>
> > I for one would rather not see it devolve to that point. The goth
>
> > scene in general needs people trying to revive it and make it grow;
>
> > Convergence in my opinion was and should be part of that. The world
>
> > already has the insignificant and laughable yearly failure that is
>
> > Southern Gothic Festival, if one wants a reason to meet up where there
>
> > are no bands worth seeing and nothing exciting happening. We need
>
> > ambition, not the lack of it.
>
>
>
> You'd like this one. 25+ bands, a dozen djs, three venues going from 7PM
>
> to 1, for three nights in a row, plus a night of pre-party and things
>
> going on at the hotel WHILE the bands and DJs are going.
>

Yeah, the schedule does seem overdone. But if that's a bad thing, it's the organizers' problem, not ours. The only band on the list that I haven't seen before and have any interest in the Belwether Syndicate. I discard all the techno-disco-pretending-to-be-industrial stuff and it's easy to make up my mind what to do after that.

[Corwyn]

On 4/11/2013 4:33 PM, Dr. Frank N. Furter wrote:

> Yeah, the schedule does seem overdone. But if that's a bad thing, it's
> the organizers' problem, not ours.

I wouldn't say it's overdone, I'd say it has choices. This is a Good thing.
I'm rather impressed with all the options.

Oh, and the spirits runs are at 6pm, not 2pm. Also good.

c

[Peter H. Coffin]

That's four fewer hours of drinkin'. And the place is three blocks from
the the hotel, so it's not exactly an adventure to get there. Points
for convenience, though and double points if they have Luxardo cherries
on hand.

--
2. My ventilation ducts will be too small to crawl through.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

[Corwyn]

On 4/13/2013 9:08 PM, Peter H. Coffin wrote:

> That's four fewer hours of drinkin'. And the place is three blocks from
> the the hotel, so it's not exactly an adventure to get there. Points
> for convenience, though and double points if they have Luxardo cherries
> on hand.

Oh come on, you drink the remains of yesterday to Fortify before braving The
Outside to get a new stock. OTOH, bein' 3 blocks away, a scheduled run only
means going over in a gang.

I'll be looking for new & interesting rum (Railean, Spirit of Texas, and
White Hat are all made in Texas) and maybe bourbon/rye.

c

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 12:57:59 -0700, Corwyn wrote:
> I'll be looking for new & interesting rum (Railean, Spirit of Texas, and
> White Hat are all made in Texas) and maybe bourbon/rye.

Will be bringing some Roaring Dan from Milwaukee, and fixings for this
year's cocktail, the Scud Runner.

--
68. I will spare someone who saved my life sometime in the past. This is
only reasonable as it encourages others to do so. However, the offer
is good one time only. If they want me to spare them again, they'd
better save my life again. --Peter Anspach's Evil Overlord list

[kest]

On 4/8/13 11:57 AM, Dr. Frank N. Furter wrote:

> I don't quite remember how few people bothered to vote this year, but
> if it's a family reunion then it's a badly shrunken family. I didn't
> go to 15-18 because every winning proposal looked dull.

Well, you missed some good times.

> But, to answer your question, a badly shrunken family can't, by
> itself, support an event worth traveling for.

It all depends what you're into. And one of the things that's been going
on is that people are, in fact, into different things. There are people
who don't see the point if it's not a bandfest. But I'm pretty sure that
after c13, we collectively (as in, here, with much discussion) decided
that the core identity of Convergence is as a reunion, and it works well
like that, IMO.

In the end, I thought this year worked well. It ended up being kind of
a cross between a local event and the internet-related party, but did it
without attracting huge amounts of people who didn't understand what was
going on. Everyone I met was really friendly, all the locals seemed
happy to have us, and I had a great time with both old friends and new
ones.

Judging by the
> attendance and voting numbers I've seen, I'm one of hundreds who feel
> the same way.
>

Events don't have to be huge to be fun. But they do need to be
attracting consistent numbers that people can plan for, rather than
tempting committees to turn to outsiders in order to break even. So
that's the crux of the problem.

>
> I for one would rather not see it devolve to that point. The goth
> scene in general needs people trying to revive it and make it grow;
> Convergence in my opinion was and should be part of that.

Things have a natural lifespan. I've never been thrilled with the 'save
the scene' perspective. If something isn't working, change it, let it
go, whatever. Don't try to keep it preserved in amber. But my
conclusion from Austin is that Convergence is far from the end of its
road yet. I'd be very sad if I didn't get to see people
semi-consistently, wherever and however that is, and that's really what
it's all about.

k

[TenshiKurai9]

On 2013-03-05, Siobhan <thesi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There were plans at one point to have an alternate to Convergence
> where people just showed up in the same place at the same time and did
> whatever the town had to offer for the weekend - no bands or fashion
> shows, just a hotel, a transit pass and list of cool restaurants/clubs/
> museums.
>
> I occasionally wonder if people would vote for something like that.

I might.

-TenshiKurai9