I hate beautiful goth bois

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Edvamp

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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Just a short rant. At the club last night there was this guy I know. Over the
course of the night I saw him snog at least 5 or 6 different women. All of
them gorgeous, some of them women I liked. They gave him backrubs, scratched
his neck, played with his hair. Then when an ex-girlfriend shows up at the
club, he has the audacity to be depressed. Guys like that need to have my life
for one month and they will then truly appreciate what they've got. When it
gets too easy for them, when they know they can have pretty much any girl
there, they forget just how fucking awesome that is. I would love to be like
that, even just for awhile. And if that makes me shallow, then fuck it, I'd
rather be shallow than alone.


Ever and Always
Edvamp


Bem

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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I know exactly what you mean. I know most of the beautifull girls
around here and, somehow, they all like me. With some there is even
some cuddling once in a while. But every evening I go home alone. And
that sucks. Big time. But I don't want to be shallow. If I could be
shallow, maybe I would have gotten one home at some point by now...
Sex I can have on my own (sort of), I crave love.

Btw, the worst is when a friend tells you he has been to bed with a
girl you really like, and you just sit there smiling and hoping he
would shut up and go away and die or something.


Bem
--
We are not in the least bit afraid of ruins.
We are going to inherit the earth.
The bourgouise may blast and ruin their world,
before they leave the stage of history,
but we carry a new world in our hearts.

karl...@my-deja.com

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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Where's truth in beauty?

You know what Ed? I would trade everything to have been alone and not
have experienced that glimpse of a beautiful relationship. It tears
you up and spits you out. Now it has taken me a year to start
flirting and you know what? I would say that at least 95% of the time
it is successful. But here is the kicker.... you never seem to be
happy or complete because your heart is not in it. You feel like shit,
a slut, a
monster. I would have to say that I would rather receive no attention
then for me just giving some girl a sexy smile and a slow blink. I'm
not saying that I am attractive, but it's all how you play it. Ah I
don't even know why I am rambling about this.
Take Care
Karl Rose


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Miss Simon

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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Edvamp <edv...@aol.comKILLKILL> wrote in message
news:20000206071043...@ng-fd1.aol.com...

> Just a short rant. At the club last night there was this guy I know.
Over the
> course of the night I saw him snog at least 5 or 6 different women. All
of
> them gorgeous, some of them women I liked. They gave him backrubs,
scratched
> his neck, played with his hair. Then when an ex-girlfriend shows up at
the
> club, he has the audacity to be depressed. Guys like that need to have my
life
> for one month and they will then truly appreciate what they've got. When
it
> gets too easy for them, when they know they can have pretty much any girl
> there, they forget just how fucking awesome that is. I would love to be
like
> that, even just for awhile. And if that makes me shallow, then fuck it,
I'd
> rather be shallow than alone.

I *so* know where you are coming from. For most of my life, I have been
sitting almost permenantly in the "friend" category, and on the rare
occasions when I do find someone special, they eventually decide that they
like being friends with me so much they don't want to risk it by trying to
be more. Only once have I found anyone who wanted to be more, and I got so
scared by the idea that someone found me attractive, I fucked it up
deliberately (well, subconsciously anyway) because it didn't fit with my
view of how my life was. I'd got so used to being "just friends" that I
couldn't handle it.

I've even tried being a bastard, to try and escape the "nice guys finish
last" problem, and they just find it funny that I'm acting weird.

To make things feel worse, on of my close female friends started kissing me
on thursday night during our monthly invasion of the local cheesy pop night
at the university, only to find out that she has no interest in a
relationship, she merely wants to be, and I quote, "rampant friends".

Life bites.

Miss Simon

Too miserable to think of a decent sig.
ICQ : 48694959 http://www.geocities.com/lifeloveandlipstick


Luna

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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You'd rather be shallow than be alone, eh?

Shallow relationships won't really help with that.

I mean sure, for that one night, or two nights, a week -- whatever --
you may not technically be "alone" ... but then it ends, and there you
are again.

I'd go for quality over quantity any day.

But I have to admit, being the center of an attractive group's
attention can be really nice ... esteem-boosting ... but eventually
gets annoying/tiresome/what-have-ya.


>^Luna^<
josie(at)thej-files(dot)com
http://www.thej-files.com

Edvamp

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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>To make things feel worse, on of my close female friends started kissing me
>on thursday night during our monthly invasion of the local cheesy pop night
>at the university, only to find out that she has no interest in a
>relationship, she merely wants to be, and I quote, "rampant friends".

That I could deal with and be a lot happier. The women I hang out with seem
incapable of viewing me in any ways physical or sexual. At least a "friends
with benefits" relationship would alleviate that feeling.

It's kinda what Sam Kinison said about a woman he was seeing wanting to be
friends. "Oh, so you still get to use me as an emotional tampon, tell me your
problems, bitch and moan about other guys, but we won't actually fuck?"


Ever and Always
Edvamp


K.M.S.

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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In article <87kktj$7nh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Luna <luna_...@my-deja.com> wrote:

> You'd rather be shallow than be alone, eh?
>
> Shallow relationships won't really help with that.
>
> I mean sure, for that one night, or two nights, a week -- whatever --
> you may not technically be "alone" ... but then it ends, and there you
> are again.

Surrounded by beautiful people who want to have a relationship with you.
Fuck what a neverending cycle of misery and despair.

>
> I'd go for quality over quantity any day.

Quantity has a quality all its own.

>
> But I have to admit, being the center of an attractive group's
> attention can be really nice ... esteem-boosting ... but eventually
> gets annoying/tiresome/what-have-ya.
>
>

Hmmmm... cause being alone gets tiresome realllllyyy quick.

Koko "who feels the sudden urge to go rip the head off a ken doll" Martin Sama

Edvamp

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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>Shallow relationships won't really help with that.

Yes, it will.

>I mean sure, for that one night, or two nights, a week -- whatever --
>you may not technically be "alone" ... but then it ends, and there you
>are again.

Long term relationships end too. But at least you had something. There is
something to remember.

>I'd go for quality over quantity any day.

I'd rather have something than nothing any day. I'm not choosing quantity
over quality. I'm saying in the absense of quality, quantity will do quite
nicely.

>But I have to admit, being the center of an attractive group's
>attention can be really nice ... esteem-boosting ... but eventually
>gets annoying/tiresome/what-have-ya.

I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.


Ever and Always
Edvamp


Deviancy

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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"Edvamp" <edv...@aol.comKILLKILL> wrote in message news:20000206172113...@ng-cq1.aol.com...

> I'd rather have something than nothing any day. I'm not choosing quantity
> over quality. I'm saying in the absense of quality, quantity will do quite
> nicely.
>
> >But I have to admit, being the center of an attractive group's
> >attention can be really nice ... esteem-boosting ... but eventually
> >gets annoying/tiresome/what-have-ya.
>
> I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

I'm living proof that you can have a good relationship with a great girl even when you're not pretty. Hell I won't even look in a fucking mirror heh. Just a matter of luck I guess

+Deviancy+


Tiny Human Ferret

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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"K.M.S." wrote:

<snips>

> Surrounded by beautiful people who want to have a relationship with you.
> Fuck what a neverending cycle of misery and despair.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe we have a winner of the coveted "most
astoundingly bitter sarcasm award" for 1Q 2000.

<snips>
--
"We look through a glass but darkly:
What we see is more colored by our beliefs,
than what we believe is colored by what we see."
Whom thou'st vex'd waxeth wroth: Meow. http://www.clark.net/pub/klaatu/

K.M.S.

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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> "K.M.S." wrote:
>
> <snips>
>
> > Surrounded by beautiful people who want to have a relationship with you.
> > Fuck what a neverending cycle of misery and despair.
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe we have a winner of the coveted "most
> astoundingly bitter sarcasm award" for 1Q 2000.
>

My god! Most astoundingly bitter on _alt.gothic_ *gush* *bounce* I'd like
to thank the academy.... ;)


Koko "Who also wants to thank his parents" Martin Sama

Flight (maggot)

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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Edvamp wrote:

> >But I have to admit, being the center of an attractive group's
> >attention can be really nice ... esteem-boosting ... but eventually
> >gets annoying/tiresome/what-have-ya.
>
> I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Which is the real point. The grass is always fucking greener.

Right now I wish I could go to a club without my girlfriend and not have
to spend half my time deflecting come-ons. Since my girlfriend and I
seldom can go to a club together, it has turned into me seldom going. I
mean guys hit on me all the time out of clubs, but they have the
courtesy to drop you like a hot potato if you don't instantly signal
back to them that you're interested. For some people you can walk into
a GAF club in jeans and a NIN T-shirt and still find themselves
surrounded by shallow vapid clingers. Some people, like me, who go to
clubs to hang out with people and have a good time being social I find
that I pretty much have to avoid chatting with girls I don't know, since
it's *always* interpreted as scamming.

I mean fuck, if I ask someone what they do it's because I want to know
more about them, not because I want to fuck them or am looking for a
life-mate.

Flight

Flight (maggot)

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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"K.M.S." wrote:
>
> In article <87kktj$7nh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Luna <luna_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > You'd rather be shallow than be alone, eh?
> >

> > Shallow relationships won't really help with that.
> >

> > I mean sure, for that one night, or two nights, a week -- whatever --
> > you may not technically be "alone" ... but then it ends, and there you
> > are again.
>

> Surrounded by beautiful people who want to have a relationship with you.
> Fuck what a neverending cycle of misery and despair.

No, surrounded by beautiful people who are either bored with you and
looking for someone they haven't fucked yet, or by clingers who want to
be associated with you since you look cool and do nothing but pump the
most hollow and transient aspect of your self worth into something it
never should have been in the first place.

Hey, I like feeling handsome, but I get really tired of that being a
barrier to getting to know other people. Now that I have a girlfriend
it's especially frustrating that I can't get into a decent conversation
or friendly relationship with someone of the opposite sex (or any sex
that prefers men over women).

People hunting you down and wanting to be with you whether for a night
or a decade simply by virtue of your looks are not something to hold up
as prizes in the self-esteem contest with your ego. Long term
meaningful friendships are, and I have more than a few times found
myself deprived of what could have been a good friend because he/she
couldn't get over the fact that I didn't want our relationship to be
"intimate."

> >
> > I'd go for quality over quantity any day.
>

> Quantity has a quality all its own.

Yes, it leaves you feeling fat and your bowels are all runny.

You start farting a lot and suddenly no one wants to hang out with a
slut (even if you don't sleep with anyone).



> >
> > But I have to admit, being the center of an attractive group's
> > attention can be really nice ... esteem-boosting ... but eventually
> > gets annoying/tiresome/what-have-ya.

> Hmmmm... cause being alone gets tiresome realllllyyy quick.

You missed the point. Being sought due to your looks does not equal
meaningful company. It's possible to be very alone in a crowd. I can't
believe that most people in here haven't experienced that feeling.

Flight

Canticle

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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Edvamp wrote:

> Just a short rant. At the club last night there was this guy I know. Over the
> course of the night I saw him snog at least 5 or 6 different women. All of
> them gorgeous, some of them women I liked. They gave him backrubs, scratched
> his neck, played with his hair. Then when an ex-girlfriend shows up at the
> club, he has the audacity to be depressed. Guys like that need to have my life
> for one month and they will then truly appreciate what they've got. When it
> gets too easy for them, when they know they can have pretty much any girl
> there, they forget just how fucking awesome that is. I would love to be like

> that, even just for awhile. And if that makes me shallow, then fuck it, I'd
> rather be shallow than alone.

Nothing shallow about it, really, but believe me, the guy was probably
more upset than you at the fact the person he wanted to be with was
simply not interested in him. Being alone chews, but being alone in a
crowd can be just as bad.

Jeff-boy

maat

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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"Flight (maggot)" wrote:
>

<snip>

> Some people, like me, who go to
> clubs to hang out with people and have a good time being social I find
> that I pretty much have to avoid chatting with girls I don't know, since
> it's *always* interpreted as scamming.
>
> I mean fuck, if I ask someone what they do it's because I want to know
> more about them, not because I want to fuck them or am looking for a
> life-mate.

This is the reason why I am afraid of approaching people in clubs. The
possibility of rejection doesn't bother me nearly so much as this.

At least with parties, it's easier because there are no assumptions in
this direction. Because of that, I can just have a normal conversation
and see where it goes from there.

Would I like to be the center of attention? Of course. But if I was
totally gorgeous I would always be wondering. Especially since I am not
the least bit interested in laying total strangers.

Remember, Edvamp, things are not always what they seem when viewed by
the outside.

--maat

Albatross

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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"K.M.S." wrote:

> Hmmmm... cause being alone gets tiresome realllllyyy quick.

After my first marriage I wanted to be alone for a very long time.

A

LordKumar

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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In article <87k8u8$i0j$1...@lure.pipex.net>, "Miss Simon"
<Wra...@theseed.net> wrote:
> snip

> I *so* know where you are coming from. For most of my
> life, I have been
> sitting almost permenantly in the "friend" category,
> and on the rare
> occasions when I do find someone special, they
> eventually decide that they
> like being friends with me so much they don't want to
> risk it by trying to
> be more. Only once have I found anyone who wanted to
> be more, and I got so
> scared by the idea that someone found me attractive, I
> fucked it up
> deliberately (well, subconsciously anyway) because it
> didn't fit with my
> view of how my life was. I'd got so used to being
> "just friends" that I
> couldn't handle it.
> I've even tried being a bastard, to try and escape the
> "nice guys finish
> last" problem, and they just find it funny that I'm
> acting weird.
> To make things feel worse, on of my close female
> friends started kissing me
> on thursday night during our monthly invasion of the
> local cheesy pop night
> at the university, only to find out that she has no
> interest in a
> relationship, she merely wants to be, and I quote,
> "rampant friends".
> Life bites.
> Miss Simon
> Too miserable to think of a decent sig.
> ICQ : 48694959
> http://www.geocities.com/lifeloveandlipstick

Perhaps I'm living in the throes of fear of commitment
(sneer), but I find the concept of being "just friends"
with a woman to be _highly_ appealing. I have several
beautiful, wonderful female friends who fill this role with
me, and I couldn't be happier. To me, a close friend is more
rewarding by far than a romantic relationship. What's that
funny saying.. "Better to have loved and lost than to never
have loved at all" or something.. I say, better to have the
love of a true friend and retain it, than to have loved and
lost (a romantic love). The friends I have and love, while
not as intense a relationship as a lover, I will have for
ever. I look forward to growing older with these people in
my life, of maturing beside them, of someday swapping
stories about our grandchildren.

I dont have any glaring flaws, I'm a handsome guy, nice,
etc. If I wanted to pursue a higher relationship with these
women, there's no reason why I wouldn't succeed. Indeed, two
of them were started in part because of their interest in
me. If I were given the chance, I would change nothing. The
friendships I have are some of the most rewarding,
fulfilling things I've ever experienced.

I've had ONE romantic relationship... we started off as
friends, and it moved into something more over time. We were
best friends as well as lovers. It lasted about 4 and a half
years, but now it's over, and I'm afraid the strain of what
we once had was too much pressure to maintain a friendship.
I lost what was one of my dearest friends.

So. On one hand, I have an intense romantic love
relationship, 4 years, kapput. On the other hand, I have the
lesser (?) love of several friends, 10+ years, and still
going. I choose the latter as more valuable. I'm not saying
I would change the romantic relationship, it was a valuable
learning experience, but in the long run, what I have is
better than what I had.

Sure, I'm human, I get lonely, I crave the "higher" love, I
do the whole crying myself to sleep thing every now and
then. I suppress my irrational physical desires to become
closer to my female friends. If only we weren't made of this
weak flesh... And sometimes, illogically, it hurts to watch
them have relationships with other people. But I'll never
stop being thankful for the beautiful frienships I have.


* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

Flight (maggot)

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Feb 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/6/00
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"K.M.S." wrote:
>
> In article <389E0A39...@clark.net>, kla...@clark.net wrote:
>
> > "K.M.S." wrote:
> >
> > <snips>
> >

> > > Surrounded by beautiful people who want to have a relationship with you.
> > > Fuck what a neverending cycle of misery and despair.
> >

> > Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe we have a winner of the coveted "most
> > astoundingly bitter sarcasm award" for 1Q 2000.
> >
> My god! Most astoundingly bitter on _alt.gothic_ *gush* *bounce* I'd like
> to thank the academy.... ;)

Yes, and while your at it you can take this "most typical and obvious"
whine of the month award for restating the obvious and generally
redundant in a refreshing and slightly more than dull way...

Flight :P

Brazen Angel

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
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On 06 Feb 2000 22:21:13 GMT, edv...@aol.comKILLKILL (Edvamp) decided
to share:

>>I mean sure, for that one night, or two nights, a week -- whatever --
>>you may not technically be "alone" ... but then it ends, and there you
>>are again.
>

> Long term relationships end too. But at least you had something. There is
>something to remember.

Hopefully at the end of a long term relationship you remember real
love and all the things that go with it as opposed to just some cute
chick who wanted to fuck you for a couple of weeks until you both
realized that that was all there was and moved on to another round of
the same thing with different partners.


> I'd rather have something than nothing any day. I'm not choosing quantity
>over quality. I'm saying in the absense of quality, quantity will do quite
>nicely.

You mean you'd rather get laid than have nothing. Try being confident
because it seems to get everyone laid no matter how pretty or ugly
they are.

And I'm sure the beautiful gothbois wonder just like beautiful
gothgirls if the person snogging or fucking them really likes them or
their outsides only. I'm sure they really enjoy being used half the
time or more.

But you know, cross that bridge when you get to it too.

Brazen

"I'd rather be rejected than used because they both amount to
the same thing in the end, but being used takes a lot longer."
- Marilyn vos Savant


The Evil Chemist

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
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Luna <luna_...@my-deja.com> Bellowed at the Firmament:

> You'd rather be shallow than be alone, eh?

> Shallow relationships won't really help with that.

I equate such relationships to a starving man <woman> eating sand:
It quenches the hunger pangs, but it doesn't offer any sustenence.

The hunger is what drives us to seek sustenence.

The hunger forces is us out to look for what we need.
It has it's purpose.

"Junk food" is always available, but the problem is one gets used to it,
b/c it's accessible.

So you sit idley eating sand and dirt while you slowly die inside, rather
than look for what you really need.

When it comes to relationships:
Everyone complains they haven't found what they are looking for until they
finally do. Everyone makes the wrong decisions until they make the right
one.

The nagging question though is: How soon is now?

jv

The Evil Chemist

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
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Edvamp <edv...@aol.comKILLKILL> Bellowed at the Firmament:

> Just a short rant. At the club last night there was this guy I know.
Over the > course of the night I saw him snog at least 5 or 6 different
women. All of > them gorgeous, some of them women I liked. They gave him
backrubs, scratched > his neck, played with his hair. Then when an
ex-girlfriend shows up at the > club, he has the audacity to be depressed.

You may see 5 or 6 beautiful women, but he only sees one. Nothing any of
those 5 or 6 do or say mean anything if you only care about the one
sitting across the bar.

>Guys like that need to have my life for one month and they will then
>truly appreciate what they've got.

Or maybe you can have his life and realize what he "doesn't got."

Maybe this guy was in love.

Love is being elevated to a place humans cannot comprehend and gods can
only envy. And once you fall from that place, it's not much solace kicking
stones on the ground while you look up at the sky remembering where you
once were.

Love is seeing colors you've never seen before and when it's gone,
the memory of those colors burn in your mind. The black & white world just
doesn't hold the same beauty that it did before.

>When it gets too easy for them, when
>they know they can have pretty much any girl there, they forget just
>how fucking awesome that is.

It really isn't that awesome.

> I would love to be like that, even just
>for awhile.

I wish you were like that for awhile, b/c you will prolly realise it isn't
all you hoped it would be. You'll prolly end up posting about how there
are a zillion women to go home with, but none to be with.

You'd still be alone.
I do mean this with the greatest sincerity.
It's a great ego stroke to have people like you even for the wrong
reasons.

But it really doesn't mean anything.
jv


TSM

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
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On 06 Feb 2000 12:10:43 GMT, edv...@aol.comKILLKILL (Edvamp) wrote:

>Just a short rant. At the club last night there was this guy I know. Over the
>course of the night I saw him snog at least 5 or 6 different women. All of
>them gorgeous, some of them women I liked. They gave him backrubs, scratched
>his neck, played with his hair. Then when an ex-girlfriend shows up at the
>club, he has the audacity to be depressed.

Oh come on, Ed.
How the hell do you know what it's like?
You -aren't- him.

Everything anyone can ever
be comes with it's own set of problems.

>Guys like that need to have my life
>for one month and they will then truly appreciate what they've got.

It might suprise you just
how willing some of these guys
might be to take you up on that.

>When it
>gets too easy for them, when they know they can have pretty much any girl

>there, they forget just how fucking awesome that is. I would love to be like

>that, even just for awhile. And if that makes me shallow, then fuck it, I'd
>rather be shallow than alone.

I know this guy who is, ironically,
my girlfriend's roommate who could
very easily and accurately be described
as a dope-ass chunk of beefcake.

You know what he said to me the other night?
"Damn, sometimes I just wish the girls would
leave me alone. All I want to do is go out and
dance or something and I can't get a moment's peace. . ."
or words to that effect.

Now I'm sure that'll illicit a few eyerolls from
anyone who reads this, but then remember what 'ol Sam said.
Yeah, that bit a few messages down the line about
being used as an emotional tampon.
The chicks don't want -him-,
they want his big square
shoulders and his nice ass.

-Everyone- gets used, Ed.
Everyone.

Everyone also wants what
they can't seem to get.
In your case, it's sex.
In his case, and I shit thee not,
it's the opprotunity to just -talk-
to a woman without her trying to
get sex out of him.

Might sound crazy, but I swear to God it's true.

On that note,
take a moment to realize what you've "got."

>Ever and Always
>Edvamp

--TSM

fuzzy pink satan (also known as skerry)

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2000 02:04:26 GMT, The Evil Chemist
<jver...@suba01.suba.com> fpevooyrq onpxjneqf sbe fngna:

>You may see 5 or 6 beautiful women, but he only sees one. Nothing any of
>those 5 or 6 do or say mean anything if you only care about the one
>sitting across the bar.

yes. :|

i came home from a friday night of tarting and just kind of sat here,
staring at my newsreader, and wishing i was curled up sleeping with
Him[1] like i was before, but never will be again.

i can understand how thrilling the concept of a kiss or a thorough
groping is when you don't get that sort of thing very often.

the hunger for it kept me going and writing stories and dreaming
and being happy in a really tragic sort of way.

>Love is being elevated to a place humans cannot comprehend and gods can
>only envy. And once you fall from that place, it's not much solace kicking
>stones on the ground while you look up at the sky remembering where you
>once were.

enter: tears.

>Love is seeing colors you've never seen before and when it's gone,
>the memory of those colors burn in your mind. The black & white world just
>doesn't hold the same beauty that it did before.

i don't mean to add a 'me too' post, but this one really got me where
it counts.

>You'd still be alone.
>I do mean this with the greatest sincerity.

empty calories.

>It's a great ego stroke to have people like you even for the wrong
>reasons.

most certainly. :)

>But it really doesn't mean anything.
>jv

when one is lonely, living it up can lighten your mood and make
life seem interesting again.

and while that may last for a few hours, you'll always come down
because you've just gotten basically everything BUT what you
really really want.

trust him, he's all too correct.

carrie

[1] i know you don't read any threads but the ones you
yourself start, but on the off chance you do see this...
i miss you.

---------------------------------------------------------------
http://ossuary.net/~skerrella/ - satan's in the la-BOR-a-tory!
delete the thpam to reply. :P

K.M.S.

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
In article <389E652E...@monkeyTRAPbrains.net>, "Flight (maggot)"
<mag...@monkeyTRAPbrains.net> wrote:

Oh no I couldn't your "It's so hard to know wether or not somone likes you
just cause your pretty" posting was far more qualified for the award than
any one liner I could toss off.


Koko "oh no it's the cheese police" Martin Sama

Edvamp

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
>People hunting you down and wanting to be with you whether for a night
>or a decade simply by virtue of your looks are not something to hold up
>as prizes in the self-esteem contest with your ego.

We seem to live in an All or Nothing society. Attractive people complain
because they are perceived as only physical personas with no emotional or
intellectual properties. I complain that people only see me as an intellect or
emotional sounding board with no physical or sexual properties.

I guess it is difficult to look at people as 3-d human beings so we look at
them as archetypes (Jung can blow me). These archetypes are further
strengthened in popular culture.

I like playing the role of the Big Strong Guy. I like playing the role of
the Listener and Counselor. I like playing the role of the Intellectual or
Academic. But just because I fit into the role of those archetypes doesn't
mean I can't also be the Lover.

It's like the time I hung out with a stripper friend of mine at a club just
bullshitting about Nietzsche and Ayn Rand all night. By breaking out of our
roles, we had a really delightful night.

>You missed the point. Being sought due to your looks does not equal
>meaningful company.

I didn't say I wanted every experience to be meaningful company. It would
just be nice to have that variety, those few short relationships that didn't
work out.


Ever and Always
Edvamp


Edvamp

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
>You may see 5 or 6 beautiful women, but he only sees one. Nothing any of
>those 5 or 6 do or say mean anything if you only care about the one
>sitting across the bar.

To a man that's starving, a person eating a hamburger but wanting filet
mignon is obviously missing what he has in front of him.

>Or maybe you can have his life and realize what he "doesn't got."

Yeah, if the day ever comes when I'm complaining about women throwing
themselves at me or I'm having too much sex, kill me. I'm either insane or
being controlled by aliens.

>Maybe this guy was in love.

>Love is being elevated to a place humans cannot comprehend and gods can
>only envy. And once you fall from that place, it's not much solace kicking
>stones on the ground while you look up at the sky remembering where you
>once were.

I don't believe in love. And all the poetry in the world isn't going to
change that.

>It really isn't that awesome.

Yeah, try telling the starving guy mentioned above that eating is
overrated.

>I wish you were like that for awhile, b/c you will prolly realise it isn't
>all you hoped it would be. You'll prolly end up posting about how there
>are a zillion women to go home with, but none to be with.

As I stated earlier, if I ever got like that, coming from the background I
have, kill me.

>It's a great ego stroke to have people like you even for the wrong
>reasons.

No one can like me for the wrong reasons. I'm not rich, I'm not handsome,
and backstage passes rarely ranks more than a blowjob. Any woman willing to
share herself with me has to see something in me worth liking, so she probably
has the qualities I would like anyways.

>But it really doesn't mean anything.

Like I said, I feel like being shallow for awhile. I think I've earned the
right.


Ever and Always
Edvamp


Edvamp

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
>i can understand how thrilling the concept of a kiss or a thorough
>groping is when you don't get that sort of thing very often.

Or ever.

>the hunger for it kept me going and writing stories and dreaming
>and being happy in a really tragic sort of way.

That I'll agree with. Angst certainly gets the juices flowing, so to speak.
Definitely was the cause of some of my more interesting posts.

>>You'd still be alone.
>>I do mean this with the greatest sincerity.
>
>empty calories.

Like I said in another post: something vs nothing.

>and while that may last for a few hours, you'll always come down
>because you've just gotten basically everything BUT what you
>really really want.

A. I want those few hours. It isn't enough to hear people that have been
there and done that saying it isn't worth it. I want to have been there and
done that and decide for myself whether it is worth it.

B. (said politely cos I know you mean well) How do you know what I really
really want?


Ever and Always
Edvamp


Edvamp

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
>>Guys like that need to have my life
>>for one month and they will then truly appreciate what they've got.
>
> It might suprise you just
> how willing some of these guys
> might be to take you up on that.

Suckers all. When the procedure becomes available I'll be the first on the
table.

>On that note,
> take a moment to realize what you've "got."
>

I know what I've got. All of my women friends know I cherish their
friendship, their respect and their trust in me. I do get frustrated when I
see them make the same mistakes over and over again and fail to recognize a
nice guy right in front of them, but my bitterness doesn't blind me to the fact
that I have earned their trust and that's a big fucking deal.

I am a true American. I know what I've got, and I want more.


Ever and Always
Edvamp


Empty

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
Quoth edv...@aol.comKILLKILL (Edvamp) on 06 Feb 2000 12:10:43 GMT:

<snip too-familiar rant>

I think a song said it best:

"got spandex bike shorts where the sun don't shine
but the girls don't mind
Cuz that cake boy starts to move
to the old disco groove
And your girlfriend likes that,
You may not like that but thats a fact, black"

-Cake Boy, by Sir Mix-A-Lot

~Empty

------------------------------------------------------------
You are really pretty! |
Tried to lick your wounds, | -Bane, waxing poetic
tongue full of monitor dust. |
http://www.sinclairbrowning.com/emptyspaces

Empty

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
Quoth edv...@aol.comKILLKILL (Edvamp) on 06 Feb 2000 22:21:13 GMT:

> I'd rather have something than nothing any day. I'm not choosing quantity
>over quality. I'm saying in the absense of quality, quantity will do quite
>nicely.

As someone who has spent eight months of the last year in an utterly
miserable relationship with a beautiful, but vapid, shell of a human
being, I can tell you to shut up right now Edvamp.

I'd like to have something on my cock, but if that something is
pruning shears, I'll pass.

Point being, something is not always better than nothing... nothing is
neutral in nature. And I have authority to talk about something,as I
have proven, and authority to talk about nothing, being after all..

Tetsab

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
Edvamp wrote:

> The women I hang out with seem incapable of viewing me in any ways
> physical or sexual. At least a "friends with benefits" relationship
> would alleviate that feeling.

Hrm.

I could have sworn that in an earlier rant of this sort you mentioned
that you can and do hug and kiss friends - and that someone else was
rather confused by this - or was this someone else?

That looks to be the same sitation Simon is in.



> "Oh, so you still get to use me as an emotional tampon, tell me your
> problems, bitch and moan about other guys, but we won't actually fuck"

I've had someone basically tell me that in the past; at least I know now
where they got it from.

[I was utterly enchanted that they assumed I'd do any of the above].

"So you really don't give a fuck what's coming out of one hole unless
you're getting to fuck the other one.."

[above not directed at anyone, just a flipside remark].

Tetsab.
>^..^<

--
Sig-na-a-ture is dead. http://members.home.net/tetsab/
The bytes have left the bell-tower.

Hardrock Llewynyth

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
Thus did b...@nospam.demon.nl (Bem) the Unworthy write in this Year
of Our Lord Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:20:59 GMT:

>Btw, the worst is when a friend tells you he has been to bed with a
>girl you really like, and you just sit there smiling and hoping he
>would shut up and go away and die or something.

Around here, that is generally an excuse for swift and blinding
violence :)

Seriously it isn't that painful for me to see that sort of thing, but
i generally know i have absolutely no chance of ever being anything
but an agony-aunt to her anyway. The guy she some crying to when yet
another bed-buddy dumps her or hurts her or whatever.

And and i get told what a wonderful person i am, and how she wishes
she could find someone as nice as me ("and preferably hell of a lot
less ugly" being obviously implied here). All i can do to keep from
screaming at times.

hardrock

--
Hardrock Llewynyth GAC DNRC hard...@speakeasy.org
http://www.speakeasy.org/~hardrock/
I will honour and express all facets of my being; regardless
of state and local laws.

Flight (maggot)

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to

"K.M.S." wrote:
>
> In article <389E652E...@monkeyTRAPbrains.net>, "Flight (maggot)"
> <mag...@monkeyTRAPbrains.net> wrote:

> > > > > Surrounded by beautiful people who want to have a relationship with you.
> > > > > Fuck what a neverending cycle of misery and despair.

> > > My god! Most astoundingly bitter on _alt.gothic_ *gush* *bounce* I'd like


> > > to thank the academy.... ;)
> >
> > Yes, and while your at it you can take this "most typical and obvious"
> > whine of the month award for restating the obvious and generally
> > redundant in a refreshing and slightly more than dull way...
> >
> Oh no I couldn't your "It's so hard to know wether or not somone likes you
> just cause your pretty" posting was far more qualified for the award than
> any one liner I could toss off.

Now, now. No such thing could top the timeless lamentation of those who
are lonely solely because they lack the beauty that blesses the rest of
us with meaningful bounties of relevant adoration.

Come ladies, slobber on my sleeve, just try not to get the heart so
sticky...

Flight

Flight (maggot)

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to

Edvamp wrote:

> >You missed the point. Being sought due to your looks does not equal
> >meaningful company.
>
> I didn't say I wanted every experience to be meaningful company. It would
> just be nice to have that variety, those few short relationships that didn't
> work out.

Well, unfortunately that happens to usually take the form of year after
year of short brief relationships that don't work out, often brought
about by the same behavior that drove you to seek out such random
relationship material.

You seem to be looking for some happy middle ground between being a
swinging sex stud yet being miserably lonely, and just being miserably
lonely. Unfortunately what you are looking for still involves being
miserably lonely, just having lots of sex (which is not a bad ambition,
but let's come to the point here).

The fact is that guys who have lots of chicks don't have meaningful
relationships (in my violent opinion) because they have lots of chicks!
What girl/guy worth having is going to single out someone who lets
anyone with a 6+ rating hang off of them as a meaningful partner for
future contentment and comfort seeking?

Right now it sounds like you're lashing out at the most obvious thing,
those green pastures that are really just acres of poison ivy (to
blatantly shove a metaphor down your throat). You are obsessing on what
you *don't* have, obsessing on the idea of finding a really meaningful
relationship rather than turning your focus on becoming a person worthy
of such a relationship.

No just to disclaim, I am not declaring you unworthy of such
companionship, merely pointing out that no one worth your love and
devotion is looking for someone devoting even marginal effort on the
quest to find them.

Rather they are busy looking for their bliss. They are pursuing their
dreams, feeling their way through life and finding what it is that makes
them truly happy as an individual, rather than harboring any neurotic
illusions that another person will provide this fulfillment for them.

The downside of this is that it means that your eventually finding
someone right for you is dictated entirely by chance. The upside is
that you will end up spending your life searching out what *actually*
makes you happy and probably avoid dozens of frustrating and often
painful diversions into the dark and dreary world of looking for Mrs.
Right. It means that if and when you find that person they will be far
more inclined to provide you with a meaningful partner since their
attraction will be based not on your "beautiful goth" looks but on the
person you are, confident, secure, true to thyself.

Relationships IMO are there for comfort, a pleasant consequence of being
true to yourself. Ask yourself how many couples you know who don't
argue all the time, who don't talk shit about each other, who haven't
broken up at least once. Ask yourself if that is your idea of a good
time. Ask yourself if dwelling on the fact that you are lonely is your
idea of a good time.

Whatever your idea of a good time is, it's entirely up to you to choose.

Flight

Flight (maggot)

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to

Edvamp wrote:
>
> >You may see 5 or 6 beautiful women, but he only sees one. Nothing any of
> >those 5 or 6 do or say mean anything if you only care about the one
> >sitting across the bar.
>
> To a man that's starving, a person eating a hamburger but wanting filet
> mignon is obviously missing what he has in front of him.

A cute comparison, but to be more fair you are talking about a person
that wants water.

Just water, that's all he wants, and all he gets is tacos.

Flight

Edvamp

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
>I could have sworn that in an earlier rant of this sort you mentioned
>that you can and do hug and kiss friends - and that someone else was
>rather confused by this - or was this someone else?

I do hug and kiss my friends. But I do not snog or sleep with them. That
is what I define to be a "friends with benefits" relationship. The friends I
hug and kiss we do in a snuggling way, not in any way sensual.

>"So you really don't give a fuck what's coming out of one hole unless
>you're getting to fuck the other one.."
>
>[above not directed at anyone, just a flipside remark].

And a valid one. How would I react if I had the chance to sleep with
someone I had absolutely nothing in common with didn't really enjoy their
company? Honestly I don't see that happening, as I stated in another post. If
it did, I can't say what I would do. It would depend on how I felt that exact
second.


Ever and Always
Edvamp


Flight (maggot)

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to

Edvamp wrote:

> I know what I've got. All of my women friends know I cherish their
> friendship, their respect and their trust in me. I do get frustrated when I
> see them make the same mistakes over and over again and fail to recognize a
> nice guy right in front of them, but my bitterness doesn't blind me to the fact
> that I have earned their trust and that's a big fucking deal.

Well that's your problem.

If all you want in sex, you have to A) treat women like shit, and B) ask
for it a lot!

B) is very important, since even the studliest sex god gets rejected
many many times in their illustrious careers, but speaking from
experience (I didn't "blossom" into a "swan" until I was 20 when my face
caught up with my nose) and from having known many guys who don't fit
any definition of beauty that Calvin Klein ads ever considered but that
still get laid all the time, asking is the relevant factor here. The
difference between guys that fuck and guys that don't is that some guys
ask for sex and others try to concoct meaningful relationships with
women and wind up gaining their trust. They go on to become the wise
and mature counselor, the big brother they never had.

You get frustrated when you see them make the same mistake over and over
again, but you seem to harbor some idea that by having gained their
trust they will somehow see the wisdom of changing their ways and decide
they want to be with a really nice guy after all.

Do you see the folly in this or am I going to have to find a way to make
the pistachio ice cream analogy that I have written twice in 30 line
paragraphs and deleted both times work?

I mean it's not a pretty sight, but I'm willing to make another go at
it.

Flight

Letterbomb

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
On Sun, 06 Feb 2000 20:17:59 GMT, Luna <luna_...@my-deja.com> wrote:

>You'd rather be shallow than be alone, eh?
>
>Shallow relationships won't really help with that.

But they sure as shit alleviate that yawning sense of hopelessness,
despair and crap self-worth.

When your life is a sexual wasteland, angsting over the hypothetical
quality of seemingly impossible relationships is a luxury you simply
do not have, in my experience.

It's the feeling of hopelessness that kills you every morning. Social
and sexual claustrophobia. No way out.

I completely relate to Edvamp.

Letterbomb (who says confidence goes further than anything else.)
____________________________________________________________
Better the illusions that exalt us than ten thousand truths.
- Pushkin
ICQ: 16386278

Bem

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
On Mon, 07 Feb 2000 02:54:00 -0800, Hardrock Llewynyth
<hard...@speakeasy.org> wrote:

>>Btw, the worst is when a friend tells you he has been to bed with a
>>girl you really like, and you just sit there smiling and hoping he
>>would shut up and go away and die or something.
>
>Around here, that is generally an excuse for swift and blinding
>violence :)

:P

>Seriously it isn't that painful for me to see that sort of thing, but
>i generally know i have absolutely no chance of ever being anything
>but an agony-aunt to her anyway. The guy she some crying to when yet
>another bed-buddy dumps her or hurts her or whatever.

Yeah. I just stopped listening to these stories.

>And and i get told what a wonderful person i am, and how she wishes
>she could find someone as nice as me ("and preferably hell of a lot
>less ugly" being obviously implied here). All i can do to keep from
>screaming at times.

And the irritating thing is that they really mean it as a compliment
somehow, and they have no idea how much they hurt you. Telling it to
them just ends up with having one less friend, which is also not what
I want.


Bem
--
We are not in the least bit afraid of ruins.
We are going to inherit the earth.
The bourgouise may blast and ruin their world,
before they leave the stage of history,
but we carry a new world in our hearts.

Letterbomb

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
On Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:05:35 GMT, emptyCA...@theriver.com (Empty)
wrote:

>Quoth edv...@aol.comKILLKILL (Edvamp) on 06 Feb 2000 22:21:13 GMT:
>> I'd rather have something than nothing any day. I'm not choosing quantity
>>over quality. I'm saying in the absense of quality, quantity will do quite
>>nicely.
>
>As someone who has spent eight months of the last year in an utterly
>miserable relationship with a beautiful, but vapid, shell of a human
>being, I can tell you to shut up right now Edvamp.

I think you're being overly hasty in assuming that the intensity or
legitimacy of your experience outweighs the intensity or legitimacy of
Edvamp's.

>I'd like to have something on my cock, but if that something is
>pruning shears, I'll pass.

Sure. But you didn't go into the relationship expecting that to
happen, did you? I hope not.

>Point being, something is not always better than nothing... nothing is
>neutral in nature.

Oh ho, my young Casanova, no nothing is not. (<-- wow. )

Nothing is gnawing pain for a long time, with a whole lot of
interesting psychological repercussions that suck enormously.

> And I have authority to talk about something,as I
>have proven, and authority to talk about nothing, being after all..

Whatever.


Letterbomb

Luna

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
In article <20000206172113...@ng-cq1.aol.com>,

edv...@aol.comKILLKILL (Edvamp) wrote:
> Long term relationships end too. But at least you had something.
There is
> something to remember.

But in my experience, I've enjoyed my long-terms much more than my
flings. Most of the people I've dated I haven't gotten to know more
than on a superficial level and vice-versa -- and I hate that.

You get to a point where being alone is better than putting on that
fake face and playing that part, just so you can pretend that you're
not really on your own anyways.

> I'd rather have something than nothing any day.

I don't believe in wasting my time anymore.

If I wanted an empty, meaningless sexual relationship, I'd go buy a
dildo.


>^Luna^<
josie(at)thej-files(dot)com
http://www.thej-files.com


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Narnia

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
On 06 Feb 2000 12:10:43 GMT, Edvamp <edv...@aol.comKILLKILL> sang with
gusto in alt.gothic:


>Over the course of the night I saw him snog at least 5 or 6 different
>women. All of them gorgeous, some of them women I liked. They gave him
>backrubs, scratched his neck, played with his hair.

Did they want him for his looks? Did they want him for status points?
Did they want him so they could brag to their friends? Or did they
actually want him for who he is?

Trying to discern who is being cozy for what reasons is not fun, and it
feels horrible to have to be so suspect of others.

>Then when an ex-girlfriend shows up at the club, he has the audacity to
>be depressed.

The audacity of him being in love!

Perhaps he knew that his ex-girlfriend wanted him for who he was, and
perhaps he fell in love with her for that reason. Perhaps having those
fawning girls around him made him feel worse.

>Guys like that need to have my life for one month and they will then
>truly appreciate what they've got.

Be careful what you wish for. They might never want to give it back.

>When it gets too easy for them, when they know they can have pretty much
>any girl there,

It won't matter to them if they're interested in quality not quantity, and
don't want just any girl there who happens to want them.

>they forget just how fucking awesome that is.

It's awesome for a very short amount of time. That sort of thing gets old
very fast.

>And if that makes me shallow, then fuck it, I'd rather be shallow than
>alone.

You'd still be alone. In fact, you'd be more alone, as you wouldn't ever
know who wanted to be your friend from who wanted to get you in bed for
whatever reason that had nothing to do with you beyond physical appearance
or status, and if it was the latter it would be short-lived.

Revel in your ability to be able to make friends who you are sure are
friends with you for who you are and that will last. And remember, the
grass is always greener on the other side, but when you get there you'll
find that the grass there is brown, dead, and in worse shape than on your
side.


--
=Narnia=
http://www.velvet.net/
Please do not send me spam, msword/non-text files, or chain letters
unless I ask for them or have given prior permission.

Joe Brenner

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
"Flight (maggot)" <mag...@monkeyTRAPbrains.net> writes:

>Right now I wish I could go to a club without my girlfriend and not have
>to spend half my time deflecting come-ons. Since my girlfriend and I
>seldom can go to a club together, it has turned into me seldom going.

Funny, I'm in a similar situation. If I go out without my
"sheild" I'm afraid that they won't understand that I'm just
looking.

It also strikes me as being a trifle impolitic to go hanging
around on my own in what might be construed as a pick-up
scene.

But this kind of shit isn't exactly what EdVamp needs to
hear just now.

Let me see if I can be more reassuring. If you look around,
I'm sure you'll find examples of guys who look worse than
you do who are doing better with women. So the problem
isn't just that you're ugly, it's that you're stupid -- uh,
no that's not quite it.

What I'm trying to get at, is that this is mostly "just a
phase" you're going through, and once you finally get
through it, you'll look back on these days and realize that
at the very least they make you appreciate having gotten
through them. However you'll still want to go back with a
machine gun and mow down all the people like me who gave
you helpful advice.

I wrote some stuff about this once back in my equivalent
"phase", (and if my piece-of-shit ISP ever wakes up, you
might be able to read some of it):

http://www.grin.net/~mirthless/doomfiles/DRYSPELL.html


Luna

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
In article <slrn89t2sn...@skinner.demon.co.uk>,

nar...@velvet.net wrote:
> And remember, the
> grass is always greener on the other side, but when you get there
you'll
> find that the grass there is brown, dead, and in worse shape than on
your
> side.

Well, sometimes it's just the same damn color as the side you've just
left and you're still wandering around, trying to figure out what you
want and where exactly you are. (I see this thing more often with my
anorexic/bulimic friends ... always, always finding themselves fat and
unattractive ... )

I just think that if you're trying to fill an emotional emptiness ...
you need something to adequately do the job. Like a Real Relationship.

Damn it, if all you want is sex, don't expect not to be alone in one
way or another. It's like expecting to get full from eating a bowl
full of dry Rice Crispies. A bunch of fluff, with no substance.


>^Luna^< not towards you Narnia, just got me thinking again :)

Joe Brenner

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
cwro...@DIESPAMDIEtig.com.au (Letterbomb) writes:

>On Sun, 06 Feb 2000 20:17:59 GMT, Luna <luna_...@my-deja.com> wrote:

>>You'd rather be shallow than be alone, eh?
>>
>>Shallow relationships won't really help with that.

>But they sure as shit alleviate that yawning sense of hopelessness,
>despair and crap self-worth.

>When your life is a sexual wasteland, angsting over the hypothetical
>quality of seemingly impossible relationships is a luxury you simply
>do not have, in my experience.

>It's the feeling of hopelessness that kills you every morning. Social
>and sexual claustrophobia. No way out.

>I completely relate to Edvamp.

Yeah, I don't know about "completely", but I do think the
apostles of True Love here are laying it on a little thick.

Few women are going to be so impressed with your depth that
they're willing to just dive into your pool. Even the best
of them want to see a little flash and sparkle on the
surface, however shallow it really is.

Being "beautiful" is hardly necessary, but it's not
*completely* detrimental either.

And it's easy to say "you just need to be confident", but
radiating "confidence" when you've crashed and burned the
last half dozen times is quite a trick.


Joe Brenner

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
"Flight (maggot)" <mag...@monkeyTRAPbrains.net> writes:

>Do you see the folly in this or am I going to have to find a way to make
>the pistachio ice cream analogy that I have written twice in 30 line
>paragraphs and deleted both times work?

>I mean it's not a pretty sight, but I'm willing to make another go at
>it.

Do it! Give us two or three versions, and we'll vote on
which one is best.

~twilight~

unread,
Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
Edvamp wrote:

> Just a short rant. At the club last night there was this guy I know. Over the


> course of the night I saw him snog at least 5 or 6 different women. All of
> them gorgeous, some of them women I liked. They gave him backrubs, scratched

> his neck, played with his hair. Then when an ex-girlfriend shows up at the
> club, he has the audacity to be depressed. Guys like that need to have my life
> for one month and they will then truly appreciate what they've got. When it


> gets too easy for them, when they know they can have pretty much any girl

> there, they forget just how fucking awesome that is. I would love to be like

> that, even just for awhile. And if that makes me shallow, then fuck it, I'd
> rather be shallow than alone.
>
> Ever and Always
> Edvamp

I think that everybody can feel that there's something that they don't have,
can't have, and if they somehow did have it would make everything else so much
better. Looks is one of those things. Sex is another. Love is another.
Sometimes I also think that if I was a beautiful gothboi with goth girls falling at
my feet my life would be sooo much better. Or at least infinitely more fun. ;> I
know about how difficult it is to meet women when it comes to sex- whether it's a
one night stand or an ongoing thing, and it's many times more difficult when it
comes to an actual relationship. Maybe it's too easy for some people, but how many
more don't have it that easy? I'd say almost everyone. I've met you, and you
looked like a normal (gothy) person. I think that looking to meet women is what
scares women off the most. I think that if you act confident, are straightforward
about what you want without coming across as being crude, and don't focus so much
on the "beautiful," then you'll get more fuck. Luck, I mean luck. ;> Get a new
outfit, haircut, shoes, whatever you need to do something for an extra boost of
confidence. That can change the way that you carry yourself. Good luck.

~twilight~(azgoth, it can be hard to not be jealous)


Flight

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to

Joe Breeder wrote:

> Being "beautiful" is hardly necessary, but it's not
> *completely* detrimental either.

Certainly not. It's sort of a kick start for some. Others have to push
the car to the top of a hill and get it rolling so they can pop the
clutch.

> And it's easy to say "you just need to be confident", but
> radiating "confidence" when you've crashed and burned the
> last half dozen times is quite a trick.

Yeh, well, even the most beautiful "bois" have probably crashed and
burned a Hell of a lot more than that. I know a lot of non-beautiful
"bois" who use their confidence as a springboard for their "lack" of
"boi-ish" good looks and do really damn well. The first trick is in
understanding that they will crash and burn nine times out of ten, like
in any venture in life.

Flight

Empty

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
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Quoth cwro...@DIESPAMDIEtig.com.au (Letterbomb) on Mon, 07 Feb 2000
13:26:58 GMT:

>On Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:05:35 GMT, emptyCA...@theriver.com (Empty)
>wrote:
>>

>>As someone who has spent eight months of the last year in an utterly
>>miserable relationship with a beautiful, but vapid, shell of a human
>>being, I can tell you to shut up right now Edvamp.
>
>I think you're being overly hasty in assuming that the intensity or
>legitimacy of your experience outweighs the intensity or legitimacy of
>Edvamp's.

I am most certainly not saying my experience was in any way more
intense or legitimate.

What I *am* saying, is that I have been there. And it's not a road I'd
care to see any of my friends go down.

Edvamp, if you felt like i was being condescending there, I am sorry.
It was not intended.

>>I'd like to have something on my cock, but if that something is
>>pruning shears, I'll pass.
>
>Sure. But you didn't go into the relationship expecting that to
>happen, did you? I hope not.

Not expecting, no. But I should have been.

>>Point being, something is not always better than nothing... nothing is
>>neutral in nature.
>
>Oh ho, my young Casanova, no nothing is not. (<-- wow. )
>
>Nothing is gnawing pain for a long time, with a whole lot of
>interesting psychological repercussions that suck enormously.

So something bad is better than nothing good?

I suppose this whole thread is growing more and more subjective as it
wears on... My point, however, was that vapid, unfulfilling
relationships are worse than being alone. IME. YMMV.

~Empty, there, Letterbomb, did I disclaim that one enough for you?

maat

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to

"Flight (maggot)" wrote:
>

<snip>

> Well that's your problem.
>
> If all you want in sex, you have to A) treat women like shit, and B) ask
> for it a lot!
>
> B) is very important, since even the studliest sex god gets rejected
> many many times in their illustrious careers, but speaking from
> experience (I didn't "blossom" into a "swan" until I was 20 when my face
> caught up with my nose) and from having known many guys who don't fit
> any definition of beauty that Calvin Klein ads ever considered but that
> still get laid all the time, asking is the relevant factor here. The
> difference between guys that fuck and guys that don't is that some guys
> ask for sex and others try to concoct meaningful relationships with
> women and wind up gaining their trust. They go on to become the wise
> and mature counselor, the big brother they never had.
>
> You get frustrated when you see them make the same mistake over and over
> again, but you seem to harbor some idea that by having gained their
> trust they will somehow see the wisdom of changing their ways and decide
> they want to be with a really nice guy after all.

I must be weird. I actually avoid guys that are too good looking
because I'm worried that they might be stuck-up and empty-headed because
of their looks. (I know, I know. Reverse lookism. Guilty as charged.)

When it comes to sex, I actually prefer having sex with my friends. I
like them, they like me, no one is going to fall in love /stalk/go nuts
on the other person. I also prefer having sex with my friends because I
know that they will respect me in the morning. Having said that, I do
have to find them attractive sexually, and be so inclined, and be in the
mood for that sort of thing.

As far as women confiding in you...I confide in my male friends. But I
confide in my female friends even more. I really resent it when guys
say things like, "Oh, we get to be your emotional tampon and don't get
to fuck you." That's misogynist and cruel. Friends are supposed to
support each other, and help each other through times of crisis. If I
heard a man saying the above statement, I would lose all respect for
him. If he was a friend of mine, I obviously would have to seriously
question our friendship, if fucking is all he thinks I'm good for.

--maat

Jennie Kermode

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
On Mon, 07 Feb 2000 02:54:00 -0800, Hardrock Llewynyth
<hard...@speakeasy.org> wrote:
>And and i get told what a wonderful person i am, and how she wishes
>she could find someone as nice as me ("and preferably hell of a lot
>less ugly" being obviously implied here). All i can do to keep from
>screaming at times.

IME, a lot of women who say that do so because they lack self
esteem and honestly don't think they're good enough for you. That, or,
because the friendship has become established as non-sexual, they would
find it awkward, or they assume that _you_ would find it awkward, if they
started flirting, and they're sufficiently fond of you to be afraid of
losing you like that.

Jennie

--
Jennie Kermode http://www.skinner.demon.co.uk/jennie jen...@innocent.com

fuzzy pink satan (also known as skerry)

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
On 07 Feb 2000 08:13:21 GMT, edv...@aol.comKILLKILL (Edvamp) fpevooyrq
onpxjneqf sbe fngna:

>>i can understand how thrilling the concept of a kiss or a thorough
>>groping is when you don't get that sort of thing very often.
>
> Or ever.

ow.

>>>You'd still be alone.

>>>I do mean this with the greatest sincerity.
>>
>>empty calories.
>
> Like I said in another post: something vs nothing.

i guess. it kinda seems like guzzling saltwater when
you're thirsty, though.

>>and while that may last for a few hours, you'll always come down
>>because you've just gotten basically everything BUT what you
>>really really want.
>
> A. I want those few hours. It isn't enough to hear people that have been
>there and done that saying it isn't worth it. I want to have been there and
>done that and decide for myself whether it is worth it.

granted.

i'm not saying you shouldn't want it. there's nothing inherently
wrong with having it, if it isn't being used as a substitute for
something else.

> B. (said politely cos I know you mean well) How do you know what I really
>really want?

hmm.

you're right, i don't know what you really really want.

(tellmewhatchawantwhatchareallyreallywant)

i presume a lot, assume a lot, and jump to a lot of halfbaked
conclusions. it's one of my biggest faults and it gets me in
a lot o' trouble.

you've just always seemed to be a real nice guy, and i'd
hate for you to wind up feeling like nothing more than a
cock on legs.

sorry. :|

carrie

---------------------------------------------------------------
http://ossuary.net/~skerrella/ - satan's in the la-BOR-a-tory!
delete the thpam to reply. :P

Panurge

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
emptyCA...@theriver.com (Empty) wrote:

> So something bad is better than nothing good?

Isn't that conventional wisdom among the Hip And Trendy by now? "Hurt
myself today," blah blah blah.

--
"There is no excellent beauty which hath not some
strangeness in the proportion." --Francis Bacon

Jetrock

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
On 08 Feb 2000 00:42:02 GMT, Edvamp <edv...@aol.comKILLKILL> wrote:
>Also, a few people, mainly Narnia and Jennie I think, have said how much it
>sucks for people to be nice to them merely for the purpose of getting them into
>bed. Yes, that does sound like it would suck. It's cheap and it's demeaning
>and they deserve better.

But that's how it is done. If you don't like telling lies, get used to a
life without cheap, meaningless nookie. And I don't care what anyone says,
cheap meaningless nookie can be a lot of fun. But it has its limits.
The pretty goth boy in your example doubtless knew those limits, which is
why he got bummed when his ex-girlfriend showed up after being glommed by
six other women.

If you want to Score with Lots Of Hot Chicks, learn to lie like a
motherfucker. If you want to keep your honor and conscience intact, learn
to enjoy jerking off. There isn't a hell of a lot of middle ground.

>Both extremes suck I think. Yeah, I would probably feel kinda cheap if I was
>say, rich, or good looking and women slept with me for that reason alone. But
>I would feel better than I do right now.

Would it? Your earlier posts and statements implied that you weren't
looking for meaningless nookie and that those who did get it probably
weren't that happy. Is this a change of heart? Sour grapes? Or are your
earlier statements just lies to get someone into bed that you haven't been
able to admit to yourself are lies?

>What pisses me off is that I'm expected not to have a libido just because I am
>the nice guy. It's the opposite extreme I guess as the attractive people who
>aren't supposed to have a mind.

On being "the nice guy": I played this particular role for much of my
life: the role of Lady's Champion. The Lady's Champion is her friend and
confidant, her defender and helper in times of trouble, her source of
strength--but very, very, very seldom is he her lover. He may certainly
love her, passionately and intensely, but the chivalric code of the Lady's
Champion prohibits their expression. It's a very powerful medieval image
and one whose value shouldn't be discounted, but, again, it can involve a
lot of beating off.
The Champion just plain doesn't ask. Even if the Lady in question might be
interested. To do so would defile Her purity in the mind of the Champion
and things would Change.
This brings to mind another flaw in the reasoning of the Lady's Champion:
that of pedestalizing a woman, of creating a Fantasy Lady, object of
daydream, masturbation fantasy and recipient of many never-sent love
letters, which can eclipse and replace the actual woman. A woman is
attainable. An Untouchable Goddess is not.

I think I got sick of Untouchable Goddesses at some point, but still
occasionally fell into that trap. Even after I finally gained some level
of skill in lying my way into a woman's arms, I still fell into the Lady's
Champion role occasionally, which ended up wasting a lot of my time and
just resulted in a lot of missed opportunities with women who were,
surprise of surprises, actually interested in having sex with me.

My current situation (marriage) was brought about because I made a
concerted attempt to NOT pedestalize, idolize or fantasize. This, combined
with a modicum of very honest Lies Intended To Get Nookie were utilized to
good effect. Though I do get the occasional urge to build gigantic marble
temples to her with my bare hands.
>
>I guess one benefit is we got another sex/relationship thread going. :)

And an interesting one, too. And I will try, very very hard, to not
mention guns.

Oh damn!

--
--Rev. Jetrock, founder of UBERKUNST, Freelance Digital Appliance Healer
http://emrl.com/~jetrock for UBERKUNST and MONSTER ATTACK information!

LordKumar

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Feb 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/7/00
to
In article <slrn89vb3h....@boulez.emrl.com>,
jetrock@REMOVE_ME.emrl.com (Jetrock) wrote:
> snip

> On being "the nice guy": I played this particular role
> for much of my
> life: the role of Lady's Champion. The Lady's Champion
> is her friend and
> confidant, her defender and helper in times of
> trouble, her source of
> strength--but very, very, very seldom is he her lover.
> He may certainly
> love her, passionately and intensely, but the
> chivalric code of the Lady's
> Champion prohibits their expression. It's a very
> powerful medieval image
> and one whose value shouldn't be discounted, but,
> again, it can involve a
> lot of beating off.
> The Champion just plain doesn't ask. Even if the Lady
> in question might be
> interested. To do so would defile Her purity in the
> mind of the Champion
> and things would Change.
> snip

God damnit! Is this a side effect of playing D&D when one is
little? Has anyone done studies on this topic? Damn that
devil game D&D, it converts our children into little
knights! Inserting foul ideals of chivalry and honor into
their pure little hearts!

Or maybe it's just that us geeks turn into 'nice guys' when
we get older, and the collelation between geeks and rpgs is
merely coincidental.

> And an interesting one, too. And I will try, very very
> hard, to not
> mention guns.
> Oh damn!

Something about sex and gun threads, eh Jetrock?


* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

Edvamp

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Feb 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/8/00
to
>What I'm trying to get at, is that this is mostly "just a
>phase" you're going through,

It started in High School. I'm 27 now. How long do these bloody phases
last? :)


Ever and Always
Edvamp


Edvamp

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Feb 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/8/00
to
>But in my experience, I've enjoyed my long-terms much more than my
>flings.

Oh I'm sure. And I'm not saying at all that I would choose a fling over a
serious relationship. How do you know whether it will be one or the other?


Ever and Always
Edvamp


Edvamp

unread,
Feb 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/8/00
to
Just a clarification. I am not saying that I think empty sexual relationships
and just sleeping with people cos they're there is all that. Of course I would
prefer meeting someone that I really dug and could talk to that also felt the
same about me, AND have the physical aspect as well.

I'm also not saying I feel used by my female friends (despite the emotional
tampon quote). They are my friends and they know I would take a bullet for
them.

Also, a few people, mainly Narnia and Jennie I think, have said how much it
sucks for people to be nice to them merely for the purpose of getting them into
bed. Yes, that does sound like it would suck. It's cheap and it's demeaning
and they deserve better.

Both extremes suck I think. Yeah, I would probably feel kinda cheap if I was


say, rich, or good looking and women slept with me for that reason alone. But
I would feel better than I do right now.

What pisses me off is that I'm expected not to have a libido just because I am


the nice guy. It's the opposite extreme I guess as the attractive people who
aren't supposed to have a mind.

I guess one benefit is we got another sex/relationship thread going. :)


Ever and Always
Edvamp


David Gerard

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Feb 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/8/00
to
On Mon, 07 Feb 2000 12:16:50 GMT, Letterbomb <cwro...@DIESPAMDIEtig.com.au> wrote:
:On Sun, 06 Feb 2000 20:17:59 GMT, Luna <luna_...@my-deja.com> wrote:

:>You'd rather be shallow than be alone, eh?


:>Shallow relationships won't really help with that.

:But they sure as shit alleviate that yawning sense of hopelessness,
:despair and crap self-worth.
:When your life is a sexual wasteland, angsting over the hypothetical
:quality of seemingly impossible relationships is a luxury you simply
:do not have, in my experience.
:It's the feeling of hopelessness that kills you every morning. Social
:and sexual claustrophobia. No way out.
:I completely relate to Edvamp.


*speechless*

...

*speechless*

Cameron, you are one of the most *beautiful* men I can think of [1]. You're
gorgeous, you're smart, you're cultured, you're a nice guy.

JESUS, YOU PEOPLE. WHAT IS *WRONG* WITH YOU?!

How do I put this ... Cameron ... Ed ... it's not the *world* that's wrong.

And Ed, you keep posting this thread. And you get the same answers each
time, and you don't apply them. I'm gonna give you a special section on the
tarting page if you don't watch it. I'm warning you.


:Letterbomb (who says confidence goes further than anything else.)


Fuck. You need the goddamn Wizard of Oz to grant you Confidence, so you'll
actually believe it or something?

Fuck. I'd be bashing your heads against walls if not for my ego the size of
a planet and boundless sexual capabilities. Really.

(I live in the burbs. The surroundings are nice, but the people are *so*
badly dressed. At least the goths are beautiful.)

[1] maaaate y know maaaate I think you should know maaaaate you're
gooorgeous maaate, not that I'm a poof or nothin ... Oh wait, I am. Sorry.

--
http://xenu.netizen.com.au/ http://www.caube.org.au/
"HTML's a cheap whore. Treating her with respect is possible, and even pref-
erable, because once upon a time she was a beautiful and virginal format, but
you shouldn't expect too much of her at this point." (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)

Edvamp

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Feb 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/8/00
to
>you've just always seemed to be a real nice guy, and i'd
>hate for you to wind up feeling like nothing more than a
>cock on legs.

I think it is safe to say you can lay your fears to rest.


Ever and Always
Edvamp


The Evil Chemist

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Feb 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM2/8/00
to
Edvamp <edv...@aol.comKILLKILL> Bellowed at the Firmament:

> I'm also not saying I feel used by my female friends (despite the emotional
> tampon quote). They are my friends and they know I would take a bullet for
> them.

Yeah, but I can't help but think the "substitute boyfriend" is what you
feel at times. <geez how I've felt like this>

That is, when they don't have a guy, they hang out with you all the time,
call you, tell you how great you are, do all the things they'd do with a
"real boyfriend" except the physical part.

And all the time you think "what if?" but you're scared of finding out if
the "what ifs" are just an illusion. You get so scared of thinking this
person will run away from you if you test these specualtions.

So nothing ever comes of it and she finds someone else and you're stuck
listening to her talk all about "him". And you do listen, b/c well, you
are her frie