Gothic???
Daednu
Okay, maybe I am right out of the loop. Maybe it's because I almost
never associate with other goths but...
Am I the only one who thinks that "gothic" instead of "goth" is a stupid
term made up by the media or otherwise uninformed people?
As in the person being a gothic, not as in something being gothic.
Actually, I never use the term gothic...I'd say something is goth...not
gothic. But I digress...I'd never call people "gothics", rather "goths".
*Daednu (listening to Culture Club and Bach heheeheh)
--
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~"She was a woman whose curves brought her the world on its knees"~
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Thessalia
>Am I the only one who thinks that "gothic" instead of "goth" is a stupid
>term made up by the media or otherwise uninformed people?
>
>As in the person being a gothic, not as in something being gothic.
>Actually, I never use the term gothic...I'd say something is goth...not
>gothic. But I digress...I'd never call people "gothics", rather "goths".
"Gothic" is an adjective, not a noun.
Period.
frogs and fishes from Thessaly
who could go off on a long ramble about
what she feels the differences between "goth" and "gothic" are,
but won't.
(ie, "goth" being more clubby, fashion&music, some vampire cheese,
"gothic" being more historical, art&literature... too long to explain)
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~~~~~~"Virtue is fragile." - Angela Carter~~~~~~
susan
> As in the person being a gothic, not as in something being gothic.
> Actually, I never use the term gothic...I'd say something is goth...not
> gothic. But I digress...I'd never call people "gothics", rather "goths".
victorian stuff was gothic. wait...there were some east germanic groups
who were called gothics, could it have anything to do with that?
im not exactly sure where it came from, but im pretty sure goth is the
short form for gothic. people are gothic, but that takes too much time
and energy to say, so its shortened to goth.
.susan.
Luluwhite
deadnu wrote
>As in the person being a gothic, not as in something being gothic.
>Actually, I never use the term gothic...I'd say something is goth...not
>gothic. But I digress...I'd never call people "gothics", rather "goths".
oh, what web ring was it- I'm looking for web rings to join now- anyway- one of
them said it was a webring for gothics. Um...eww...and that alone kept me from
even looking at it further. What an icky little snob I am...it makes my skin
crawl (and not in a good way!)
Mare
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SaMarius
susan wrote:
>victorian stuff was gothic. wait...there were some east germanic groups
>who were called gothics, could it have anything to do with that?
Actually, if you're thinking of the Germanic groups around the
time of the Roman Empire, they were goths, not gothics.
Visigoths, Ostrogoths...... I've never heard of any other
Germanic groups referred to as gothic. Architecture and stuff,
sure, but not people.
But I don't think that has anything to do with it. I think it's just
that, as Thessaly said, gothic is the adjective, so it got shortened
to create the noun: goth.
Samantha
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you bet your life it is." ~Tori Amos
Mor...@my-dejanews.com
In article <35833BDB...@storm.ca>,
Daednu <NOSPAM...@storm.ca> wrote:
>
> Okay, maybe I am right out of the loop. Maybe it's because I almost
> never associate with other goths but...
>
> term made up by the media or otherwise uninformed people?
>
> Actually, I never use the term gothic...I'd say something is goth...not
> gothic. But I digress...I'd never call people "gothics", rather "goths".
>
Well, I can say I've called a person gothic or group of people gothics. It
just doesn't slide off the tongue very well. I might have at one time said
a gothic type person or a gothic type or kind of thing but never gothic
alone. I don't what in the English rule book tells me not to use it on it's
own when refering to people. I know (from our world book encyclopedia I was
reading the other day) that there were people called Goths, and then Visigoths
and Ostrogoths, but not Gothics.
(Side thought. Is it because Gothic is an adjective and not a noun? So an a
would not naturally go in front of it?)
One thing puzzles me about the word Gothic as they phrased it in the
encyclopedia (technically they were talking about Gothic art;) "a term
generally used for the art of Western Europe from the early 1200's through
the 1400's. During the Rennaissance, Italians thought that classical art,
which they admired and sought to revive, had been corrupted during the
Middle Ages by the Goths, Germanic tribes that had invaded Italy during
the 400's. So they called the medieval art Gothic."
Now what do they mean by that? That the ic part refers to ickiness or
something? I thought it was odd how they worded it. I mean if they
were saying it was corrupted by Goths (as in they didn't like
them or something) why would they name it after them? Or did they
mean they were now calling the previous art that they disliked (or
whatever) Gothic?
It's probably a very simple thing I'm not getting, but I was hoping
someone could clear it up for me.
Morella
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Nepenthe
>One thing puzzles me about the word Gothic as they phrased it in the
>encyclopedia (technically they were talking about Gothic art;) "a term
>generally used for the art of Western Europe from the early 1200's through
>the 1400's. During the Rennaissance, Italians thought that classical art,
>which they admired and sought to revive, had been corrupted during the
>Middle Ages by the Goths, Germanic tribes that had invaded Italy during
>the 400's. So they called the medieval art Gothic."
>Now what do they mean by that? That the ic part refers to ickiness or
>something? I thought it was odd how they worded it. I mean if they
>were saying it was corrupted by Goths (as in they didn't like
>them or something) why would they name it after them? Or did they
>mean they were now calling the previous art that they disliked (or
>whatever) Gothic?
As I understand it, gothic art was not called gothic art at the time it
was being created. IT's just when more elaborate architecture was creatd
during the renaissance, the old gothic-style art looked primitive. So
they named it after a primitive tribe.
You see, there was classical art, then there was romanesque, which is very
primitive, but looks rather classical. Then there were the gothic styles,
which I think predominated in Northern Europe. At any rate, the naming
logic doesn't have to make sense. Our understanding of the world and
history is far different from a renaissance person's.
Disclaimer -- I took ONE class in Gothic Art. I am not an art historian,
and I dont' claim that my info is 100% correct.
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Thessalia
>Now what do they mean by that? That the ic part refers to ickiness or
>something? I thought it was odd how they worded it. I mean if they
>were saying it was corrupted by Goths (as in they didn't like
>them or something) why would they name it after them? Or did they
>mean they were now calling the previous art that they disliked (or
>whatever) Gothic?
>
>It's probably a very simple thing I'm not getting, but I was hoping
>someone could clear it up for me.
"ic" is just a suffix meaning something along the
lines of "-like" or "-ish". Has nothing to do with
a personal feeling of disgust.
Other than that, Nepenthe's post was pretty well
on the money.
frogs and fishes from Thessaly
Franzi Dickson
Thessalia wrote:
> "ic" is just a suffix meaning something along the
> lines of "-like" or "-ish". Has nothing to do with
> a personal feeling of disgust.
True Gothic originally literally meant barbaric (Goths = barbarian
tribe). As Thessaly said, Nepenthe is absolutely correct about the
name. The later architecture was much more ornate and gothic
architecture look barren. (Personally I think they just didn't
apreciate minimalism back then but hey...) Going back to the original
meaning again: Gothic literature is called that because it was
considered horrifying and beastly and revialed the darker side of human
nature. (I just finished a gothic literature class. Yay!)
Paul...@my-dejanews.com
In article <6m6s51$7jo$1...@joe.rice.edu>,
LXS@***remove***hotmail.com.***del wrote:
> I think of "gothic" as an adjective and "goth" as a noun
> (or adjective, as in "goth club") However, I have heard
> people refer to themselves or others as "gothic" or "gothics"
> (before the media hype).
I don't know know if it's a valid reason why people would
use the term "gothics," but it seems easier to pronounce
than "goths."
When I pronounce "goths," it doesn't sound right because
the "s" sound immediately follows the "th" sound.
Am I making sense?
Pauline
HrLikeFire
>When I pronounce "goths," it doesn't sound right because
>the "s" sound immediately follows the "th" sound.
>
>Am I making sense?
Yes! Esp. with my neato midwestern accent, I have a huge problem sayng "Goths".
It either comes out "gothz" or "gawths". Usually I take the chicken route and
try to get around it by saying "gothy type people" or the like.
:)*Lore