Mabelgate: the latest

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Sean

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Oct 24, 2003, 3:05:39 AM10/24/03
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http://www.expatica.com/index.asp?pad=2,18,&item_id=35127

22 October 2003
AMSTERDAM - Mabel Wisse Smit, the controversial fiancée of Prince Johan
Friso, was allegedly familiar with the contents of the dossier that Dutch
intelligence service AIVD had compiled on her before she lied to Prime
Minister Jan Peter Balkenende during a meeting in June.

Political sources claim Mabel only divulged information to the Prime
Minister that was already in the dossier and her lies about an alleged past
affair with mafia boss Klaas Bruinsma eventually forced Balkenende to refuse
to ask Parliament to sanction the royal wedding.

It remains unclear how Mabel gained insight into the AIVD file because under
current legislation it takes several months for people to gain access to
information gathered by the security service about them. Attention is now
turning to the question of whether Mabel broke the law, an RTL news report
said.

Meanwhile, the lauded 35-year-old human rights worker and former UN employee
is also being investigated on suspicion she lobbied on behalf of Egyptian
arms dealers in the 1990s.

Mabel's contacts with Bosnian political leaders also appear to have been
much broader than her well-known relationship with allegedly corrupt
diplomat Mohammed Sacirbey. The Foreign Affairs Ministry is reportedly aware
of the broader contacts via regular reports in the Bosnian media.

Parliament will debate the "Mabelgate" scandal on Thursday and Prime
Minister Balkenende, Interior Minister John Remkes and the Commission for
Intelligence and Security Services - made up of the Christian Democrat CDA,
Liberal VVD and Labour PvdA - will engage in a closed-doors meeting later on
Wednesday.

But acrimonious divisions have opened within the commission, with PvdA
leader Wouter Bos saying he will not attend. He is demanding a public debate
be held in the Lower House of Parliament before secret discussions with the
Prime Minister.

CDA parliamentary party leader Maxime Verhagen threatened to resign his
position as chairman of the commission if Bos did not attend the next
meeting, NOS reported.

The PvdA leader refused to be pushed into line, claiming that he did not
want secret information about the Mabelgate scandal that he could not
publicly use in Parliament.

His opposition to the secrecy was in line with the stance of the Parliament,
in which all parties except the CDA and VVD fear that parliamentary leaders
of the large parties - who will be informed about secret and personal
information in the Mabelgate scandal by Balkenende and Remkes on Wednesday -
will not participate in Thursday's debate because they will not be allowed
to use the secret information.

MPs will debate the Prime Minister's decision earlier this month not to
submit legislation requesting parliamentary approval of the royal wedding.
The debate will be restricted to the answers that Balkenende and Remkes gave
to MPs on Monday night.

Disgruntled MPs are demanding answers about the AIVD investigation into
Mabel and why it failed to find crucial information about her alleged affair
with Bruinsma, who was shot and killed in Amsterdam in 1991.

It was left to crime reporter Peter R de Vries to track down a former
Bruinsma bodyguard, Charlie da Silva, in Chile. Da Silva claimed that Mabel
had been intimately involved with the drugs baron about 15 years ago.

His comments unleashed a media frenzy of allegations and denials until Mabel
and Prince Friso admitted on 3 October that they had lied about the depth of
Mabel's relationship with Bruinsma. Despite admitting a "naïve and unwise"
decision to withhold information, the royal couple denied that Mabel had
been sexually involved with Bruinsma.

The revelations forced the Cabinet to refuse permission for their wedding.
But Prince Friso - who is third in line to the throne - said he still
intended to marry Mabel as planned on 24 April. Dutch legislation requires
him to renounce his rights to the throne in the absence of parliamentary
approval for the wedding.

Meanwhile, MPs are also demanding to know why the AIVD did not conduct an
extensive background check of Mabel, but did a thorough investigation into
the past of Edwin de Roy van Zuydewijn, the husband of Princess Margarita.

The investigation into Edwin was ordered by the Queen's Cabinet - the public
service secretariat which acts as link between Queen Beatrix and government
ministers - without the knowledge of the government.

Princess Margarita and Edwin have since claimed the royal family conducted a
smear campaign against the commoner-born royal husband, damaging his
business interests. They are planning to sue for EUR 35 million.

But Minister Remkes said earlier this week there could be no comparison
between the Mabel and Edwin investigations. He said it was like trying to
compare "appeals with pears".


G-B

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Oct 24, 2003, 3:19:22 AM10/24/03
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======

Given her apparent job,  I'm surprised she's made so many errors..

Gioff

stephenmead

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Oct 24, 2003, 3:21:16 AM10/24/03
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"Sean" <se...@spammenot.com> wrote in message
news:7b4mb.2764$SJ1.1503@edtnps84...

> X no archive: yes
>
> http://www.expatica.com/index.asp?pad=2,18,&item_id=35127
>
> 22 October 2003
> AMSTERDAM - Mabel Wisse Smit, the controversial fiancée of Prince Johan
> Friso, was allegedly familiar with the contents of the dossier that Dutch
> intelligence service AIVD had compiled on her before she lied to Prime
> Minister Jan Peter Balkenende during a meeting in June.
>
<snip!>

Thanks for the update!
Stephen


Nynthlyfe9

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Oct 24, 2003, 5:28:54 PM10/24/03
to
Friso, was allegedly familiar with the contents of the dossier that Dutch
> intelligence service AIVD had compiled on her before she lied to Prime
> Minister Jan Peter Balkenende during a meeting in June.
>
<snip!>

Thanks for the update!
Stephen


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed!

The real scandal is here....

Not "as being told" by an ex butler. :)


t
everyone knows it

from the Queen of England

to the Hounds of Hell


Sean

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Oct 25, 2003, 3:45:13 AM10/25/03
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"Nynthlyfe9" <nynth...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031024172854...@mb-m23.aol.com...

> Friso, was allegedly familiar with the contents of the dossier that Dutch
> > intelligence service AIVD had compiled on her before she lied to Prime
> > Minister Jan Peter Balkenende during a meeting in June.
> >
> <snip!>
>
> Thanks for the update!
> Stephen
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Indeed!
>
> The real scandal is here....
>
> Not "as being told" by an ex butler. :)

The latest *rumour*/allegation is that she was involved in weapons
trafficking to Bosnia via Egypt.

Sean.


G-B

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Oct 25, 2003, 4:22:48 AM10/25/03
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Sean wrote:

======
Wow! She must fascinate Friso then... No wonder he's infatuated...

Do you know what the Dutch feeling is in general about her?

Gioff

Sean

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Oct 25, 2003, 7:31:10 AM10/25/03
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"G-B" <tarn...@lexicon.net> wrote in message
news:3F9A344E...@lexicon.net...

snip.

> ======
> Wow! She must fascinate Friso then... No wonder he's infatuated...
>
> Do you know what the Dutch feeling is in general about her?
>
> Gioff

Apparently on 37% think that the wedding should go ahead.

Sean. ~


Lethal Injectn

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Oct 25, 2003, 11:49:46 PM10/25/03
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From: "Sean"

>> Do you know what the Dutch feeling is in general about her?
>>
>> Gioff
>
>Apparently on 37% think that the wedding should go ahead.

===================

I think we should take an AGR poll on how many think the wedding will go ahead.
Maybe a pool of some sort with everyone chipping in $1 with the money to go,
via electronic Pay Pal, to an Amazon book gift certificate.

Sean

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Oct 26, 2003, 3:27:55 AM10/26/03
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"Lethal Injectn" <lethal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031025234946...@mb-m20.aol.com...

Now there's an idea!


G-B

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Oct 26, 2003, 3:47:12 AM10/26/03
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Sean wrote:

======

OK. So how do we work it?

Gioff

Lethal Injectn

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Oct 26, 2003, 2:58:27 PM10/26/03
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From: G-B tarn...@lexicon.net

>> > I think we should take an AGR poll on how many think the wedding will go
>> ahead.
>> > Maybe a pool of some sort with everyone chipping in $1 with the money to
>> go,
>> > via electronic Pay Pal, to an Amazon book gift certificate.
>>
>> Now there's an idea!
>
>======
>
>OK. So how do we work it?
>
>Gioff
>

=====================

Well, we could choose one person who would be the pool "source" (so to speak)
and everyone could get onto Pay Pal and send $1 to their account. Perhaps
someone clearly neutral to everything like Stephen. Once the winner is
revealed, then the Pool Source would use that money to get a gift certificate
for the amount of the pool for the winner. I don't think it would be too hard
to do because Pay Pal credits people via email addresses. I've used it in the
past to get out-of-date books on eBay. I would charge the money to a debit/bank
account or credit card and put in the seller's email as "receiver" for the
amount.

I don't know how it works on the other end, ie, the end which receives the
money but I imagine that they can give a bank or credit card account # for the
money to be sent to. In our case, that person could then use that exact amount
to buy an Amazon gift certificate in the name of the winner.

If we can get about 20 people to play and give dates of when they think the
wedding will be called off or dates by which the wedding will occur (a much
more distant date since I heard something about the wedding taking place in
April), then we could easily manage it and have a good pot at the same time.
We could give our dates online and everyone would give their word to contribute
$1 or 1 UK pound. When the date/outcome is revealed, then the list of players
with their guesses would be re-posted so that all those people could go to Pay
Pal and send off the money. (That possibility would avoid any concerns
regarding money being submitted months and months before the Wedding situation
is resolved). Assuming everyone keeps to their word, we could have a nice gift
certificate to go towards purchase of a good Royalty (or other kind of) book.
Maybe someone can even buy Burrell's book..... <ducking and fleeing>


stephenmead

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Oct 26, 2003, 3:40:52 PM10/26/03
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"Lethal Injectn" <lethal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031026145827...@mb-m02.aol.com...

> From: G-B tarn...@lexicon.net
>
> >> > I think we should take an AGR poll on how many think the wedding will
go
> >> ahead.
> >> > Maybe a pool of some sort with everyone chipping in $1 with the
money to
> >> go,
> >> > via electronic Pay Pal, to an Amazon book gift certificate.
> >>
> >> Now there's an idea!
> >
> >======
> >
> >OK. So how do we work it?
> >
> >Gioff
> >
> =====================
>
> Well, we could choose one person who would be the pool "source" (so to
speak)
> and everyone could get onto Pay Pal and send $1 to their account. Perhaps
> someone clearly neutral to everything like Stephen.

!!!!! Yes Mr. Neutral that's me! Someone once posted that if they realised I
was as neutral as Switzerland they would have come to me for some good
ski-ing.

Once the winner is
> revealed, then the Pool Source would use that money to get a gift
certificate
> for the amount of the pool for the winner. I don't think it would be too
hard
> to do because Pay Pal credits people via email addresses. I've used it in
the
> past to get out-of-date books on eBay. I would charge the money to a
debit/bank
> account or credit card and put in the seller's email as "receiver" for the
> amount.
>
> I don't know how it works on the other end, ie, the end which receives the
> money but I imagine that they can give a bank or credit card account # for
the
> money to be sent to. In our case, that person could then use that exact
amount
> to buy an Amazon gift certificate in the name of the winner.
>

Well I'm game if you really want to do it but you must explain to me exactly
what to do, I'ne never done that before.


> If we can get about 20 people to play and give dates of when they think
the
> wedding will be called off or dates by which the wedding will occur (a
much
> more distant date since I heard something about the wedding taking place
in
> April), then we could easily manage it and have a good pot at the same
time.
> We could give our dates online and everyone would give their word to
contribute
> $1 or 1 UK pound. When the date/outcome is revealed, then the list of
players
> with their guesses would be re-posted so that all those people could go to
Pay
> Pal and send off the money. (That possibility would avoid any concerns
> regarding money being submitted months and months before the Wedding
situation
> is resolved). Assuming everyone keeps to their word, we could have a nice
gift
> certificate to go towards purchase of a good Royalty (or other kind of)
book.
> Maybe someone can even buy Burrell's book..... <ducking and fleeing>
>

I'm not buying that book but my friend is and she will loan it to me - lol.
Stephen


Jean Sue Libkind

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Oct 26, 2003, 3:33:56 PM10/26/03
to
in article 20031026145827...@mb-m02.aol.com, Lethal Injectn at
lethal...@aol.com wrote on 10/26/03 2:58 PM:

> We could give our dates online and everyone would give their word to
> contribute
> $1 or 1 UK pound. When the date/outcome is revealed, then the list of players
> with their guesses would be re-posted so that all those people could go to Pay
> Pal and send off the money. (That possibility would avoid any concerns
> regarding money being submitted months and months before the Wedding situation
> is resolved). Assuming everyone keeps to their word, we could have a nice
> gift
> certificate to go towards purchase of a good Royalty (or other kind of) book.
> Maybe someone can even buy Burrell's book

I'm for a pound which is about $1.50 (let's make it equal across the water).
And if the winner buys Burrell's book, we can mail it among ourselves so we
all read it without giving the scum money.

I'll take February 14; the prince will grow impatient, not want to wait for
more revelations, and it will be sooo romantic.

js

Lethal Injectn

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Oct 26, 2003, 3:58:27 PM10/26/03
to
From: "stephenmead"

>>!!!!! Yes Mr. Neutral that's me! Someone once posted that if they realised I
was as neutral as Switzerland they would have come to me for some good ski-ing.
>>>

LOL. Great compliment, Stephen. :)

>>Well I'm game if you really want to do it but you must explain to me exactly
what to do, I'ne never done that before.>>

Well, all you do is sign up for a PayPal account. http://www.paypal.com/
It's easy and free. You essentially provide some information and a credit card
# or the # of our debit bank account (e.g., a bank account with a card that
works like an ATM card and also a credit card). If you want to purchase
something or even to send money to someone, then you just put in the name &
email address of the person to whom you wish to pay. It is phenomenally easy
and a life-saver when you wish to buy things online from places like eBay
without having to deal with things like cashier's checks, money orders, etc.
etc. It is absolutely, totally secure too. Whether you use it for this AGR
Mabel/wedding thing or for something else, check out the site as you will find
it inordinately useful for any internet things you purchase at auctions. And
you can find the best books --- thousands and thousands of them --- on eBay on
every subject under the sun. Often cheaper than store prices, without taxes,
and one method of getting out-of-print books that are hard to find. I completed
my collection of out-of-print Patricia Veryan books through a few simple
auctions. And I've found several out-of-print books on royalty for real
steals.

Going back to the Mabelgate pool, one thing which would be useful is if people
knowledgeable on the country could provide a list of important upcoming
national dates, holidays, annual Dutch royal events, etc. An annoucement of a
marriage or the end of an engagement could be more or less likely on a
significant public occasion. Similarly, it would be interesting to have a
vague approximation of the week/day on which Princess Maxima is going to give
birth because any annoucement regarding Prince Friso's engagement/marriage is
unlikely to occur on the same date and, thus, take the spotlight away from the
new mother.

Personally, I think the wedding won't go forward and I'd guess that an
annoucement to that effect will be coming out within the next month. So, I
would be betting against a wedding. I'd have to think more before I choose any
specific date(s).

Hey, perhaps we could give more than one guess for $1 a guess. That would
build up the pool somewhat, wouldn't it?

Lethal Injectn

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Oct 26, 2003, 4:03:59 PM10/26/03
to
From: Jean Sue Libkind

>I'm for a pound which is about $1.50 (let's make it equal across the water).
>And if the winner buys Burrell's book, we can mail it among ourselves so we
>all read it without giving the scum money.


Well, I think Annie has already ordered the book so let's see if she is willing
to share so that we don't have any others purchasing that sneak's words.

>>>I'll take February 14; the prince will grow impatient, not want to wait for
more revelations, and it will be sooo romantic. >>

I'm happy to keep a list of people's guesses. I wonder if Valentine's Day is
celebrated on the same date all over the world. Any-one know?

Personally, if he wants to preempt more revelations, I think he'd better make
it sooner than February. The allegation that she knew what was in her personal
intelligence file and only revealed that limited information seems, IMO, to be
somewhat damaging.

I can't recall if the articles on that incident explained how she got her hands
on the file. Can anyone refresh my memory?

Janet Schmidt

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Oct 26, 2003, 8:14:23 PM10/26/03
to

Lethal Injectn wrote:
> From: Jean Sue Libkind
>
>
>>I'm for a pound which is about $1.50 (let's make it equal across the water).
>>And if the winner buys Burrell's book, we can mail it among ourselves so we
>>all read it without giving the scum money.
>
>
>
> Well, I think Annie has already ordered the book so let's see if she is willing
> to share so that we don't have any others purchasing that sneak's words.


I hate to admit, I am weak. DH picked it up for me at Border's today -
it is sitting here in the bag on my credenza and I am working up to
reading it tonight, I think.

Janet

Susan Cohen

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Oct 26, 2003, 10:22:02 PM10/26/03
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"Lethal Injectn" <lethal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031026145827...@mb-m02.aol.com...

> From: G-B tarn...@lexicon.net
>
> >> > I think we should take an AGR poll on how many think the wedding will
go
> >> ahead.
> >> > Maybe a pool of some sort with everyone chipping in $1 with the
money to
> >> go,
> >> > via electronic Pay Pal, to an Amazon book gift certificate.
> >>
> >> Now there's an idea!
> >
> >======
> >
> >OK. So how do we work it?
> >
> >Gioff
> >
> =====================
>
> Well, we could choose one person who would be the pool "source" (so to
speak)
> and everyone could get onto Pay Pal and send $1 to their account. Perhaps
> someone clearly neutral to everything like Stephen. Once the winner is
> revealed, then the Pool Source would use that money to get a gift
certificate
> for the amount of the pool for the winner.

Now is this supposed to be whether or not the wedding will take place, or
*when*?
Because if it's the former, don't see how we can come away with less than
multiple winners, but if it's the latter, I don;t see how we're supposed to
be able to guess....??

SusanC


Lethal Injectn

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Oct 27, 2003, 1:41:57 AM10/27/03
to
From: "Susan Cohen"

>>>Now is this supposed to be whether or not the wedding will take place, or
*when*?
Because if it's the former, don't see how we can come away with less than
multiple winners, but if it's the latter, I don;t see how we're supposed to be
able to guess....?? >>>

Well, to the extent that I had considered it at all, I thought of a dual sort
of things:

1-- Those who think the marriage will be called off can give dates of such an
annoucement.

2- Those who think the marriage will continue can give the estimated dates upon
which the marriage will occur. We know that it will be sometime in the early
Spring. Obviously, it won't be easy so they can give a week (ie, March 10-18,
February 17-25, February 1-8, ) as an example. Knowing some of the dates of big
national, royal or public events will help narrow it down. Worse comes to
worse, people can make more than one guess at $1 or 1 UK pound a guess.

Same sort of timeline for those people who think there will be an annoucement
that the wedding will be called off.

Obviously, for those who are predicting the wedding (a much later date than the
other possible event), they could just give their word that they will donate
their contribution to the pool. If one or the other of the two possibilities
comes to pass, then (and only then) will they have to "pay up". That way, they
won't have to worry about their money being forgotten about.

If anyone has a better way of how to handle all this, please, please, PLEASE
speak up. I think this would be fun *and* it be a sort of interactive thing
for royal engagement watchers. Plus, the winner could get a decent-sized gift
certificate to buy something from Amazon.

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