We had Camilla Pegged All Along....
PK
Camilla's inherited role as royal mistress
By Ryan Dilley
BBC News Online
She was lover of the Prince of Wales - a strong influence on him and a
humiliation for his wife. And she was Camilla Parker Bowles's
great-grandmother.
Alice Keppel had the "sexual morals of an alley cat", says historian
Victoria Glendinning. "Sexual faithfulness to her husband wasn't a
value to her."
And with whom, in 1898, did Keppel embark on her most infamous
extramarital affair? None other than the Prince of Wales.
The minor socialite came to be the semi-official escort for the
Prince, even after he succeeded his mother - Queen Victoria - to the
Imperial throne and was crowned King Edward VII.
She was the notoriously amorous king's last and longest-serving
mistress and one of the few people in his circle able to defuse his
cantankerous mood swings.
"Alice Keppel was a fantastic help to Edward VII, more help than his
wife [Queen Alexandra] could have ever have been," says Christopher
Wilson, who has written about Keppel's great-granddaughter, Camilla
Parker Bowles.
The family link between the two women, and the parallels of them both
having relationships with princes of Wales, is highlighted by a BBC
Two documentary being broadcast on Friday.
The young Camilla Keppel Shand [Shand was added by me] enjoyed a
privileged upbringing - a childhood not so dissimilar to that
experienced by her notorious ancestor almost a century before. The
Keppel family rather revelled in Alice's royal connection
(particularly the possibility that Camilla's grandma Sonia was of
royal blood), and Camilla was said to been "in awe" of her
great-grandmother.
"Camilla saw how you could be a successful support to someone in an
exposed public position. She learned a great deal from [Alice], and
was able to enact it for herself," says Mr Wilson.
Camilla is said to have influenced Charles's choice of bride
This "enacting" began when horse-mad Camilla's path crossed that of
Edward VII's great-grandson Charles, the newly invested Prince of
Wales, at the polo matches.
"Prince Charles was very wet behind the ears when it came to women,
but on horseback he looked like a god," says Mr Wilson.
The pair quickly became lovers, despite Camilla being involved with a
cavalry officer, Andrew Parker Bowles, and warnings to Prince Charles
from palace officials that the match was doomed because Camilla was
not a virgin.
However, even Camilla's marriage to Parker Bowles in 1973 did not
extinguish the feelings Prince Charles had for her.
Penny Junor, the Prince's biographer, says the couple's shared love of
horses and The Goons cemented their relationship.
Just as Edward VII and Alice Keppel had done 90 years before, Charles
and Camilla arranged to rendezvous at the country estates of friends.
"Both couples were surrounded by fantastically close-knit coteries of
friends. People who would rather have had their heads chopped off
rather than discuss with anyone who they'd had under their roof," says
Ms Junor.
Prince Charles was uneasy about his marriage, but Camilla reputedly
urged him on
Camilla had a hand in helping Prince Charles buy his Highgrove estate
- conveniently close to her home - and even advised her lover on his
choice of the all-important bride who would provide Charles with an
heir and the nation with its future king.
In 1980, the 19-year-old Lady Diana Spencer was given the seal of
approval. Many in the royal circle thought the shy Diana would be a
"quiet little mouse" and cause her husband and his mistress as little
trouble as Queen Alexandra had her errant royal husband.
While she shared much with the fashion-conscious and charitably-minded
Queen Alexandra, as Princess Diana's fairy tale marriage quickly
disintegrated, she proved herself to be anything but mousy.
This was not the only place where Camilla's path departed from that of
her great-grandmother.
In Edwardian high society, loveless marriages and discrete serial
bed-hopping were more acceptable than divorce. "You didn't think you
were a bad woman or an immoral woman if you slept with a man other
than your husband," says historian Victoria Glendinning.
Camilla has had a rough ride, but has fared better than Alice
However, by the late 20th Century such shenanigans were deemed more
reprehensible - though some argue that the artistocracy has been slow
to catch up.
Also, the mass media - which so careful coded its references to Edward
VII's female companions - had taken a far more explicit interest in
the love lives of the great and the good.
But despite the very public humiliations Camilla has suffered since
her affair with Prince came to light - partly due to Princess Diana's
discussions with journalists and writers - she may in the end fare
better than her great-grandmother.
When Edward VII died in 1910, Alice Keppel found that the considerable
influence she had enjoyed for 12 years was stopped with the beating of
the king's heart.
A woman seen by some as a power behind the throne was not even
permitted to sign the book of condolence for her dead lover.
Royal Mistresses - Alice and Camilla can be seen on BBC Two on Friday
11 July at 2100 BST.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3055376.stm
So this dispels the popular lies of some of the dolts at AGR....that
"the Highgrove purchase had nothing to do with Camilla." "That Camilla
doesn't idolize Alice and seek to be just like her."
Candide
news:779e0422.0307...@posting.google.com...
> some of us at any rate-
>
> Camilla's inherited role as royal mistress
> By Ryan Dilley
> BBC News Online
> She was lover of the Prince of Wales - a strong influence on him and a
> humiliation for his wife. And she was Camilla Parker Bowles's
> great-grandmother.
> Alice Keppel had the "sexual morals of an alley cat", says historian
> Victoria Glendinning. "Sexual faithfulness to her husband wasn't a
> value to her."
Well not much of this was news to MOI! But did you know that Alice
Keppel had two daughters, one of which carried on a scandalous lesbian
love affair with Vita Sackville-West?
Seems apples don't fall far from trees in this family.
Candide
Tom
> Well not much of this was news to MOI! But did you know that Alice
> Keppel had two daughters, one of which carried on a scandalous lesbian
> love affair with Vita Sackville-West?
>
> Seems apples don't fall far from trees in this family.
>
> Candide
is camillas daughter/son a lesbian/homosexual?
i didnt know that.
PK
Indeed I did know about Violet and Vita [poor Violet's Husband]...I
read their Son's 'Portrait of a Marriage', loads of letters between
Vita and Harold and then the BBC presented a show on the Nicolson
marriage as well...it was a stunner...it seems Vita S-W was also
involved with Virginia Woolf.
At one time we lived near Knowle in Kent and there was stacks of local
lore about the Sackville-Wests...
Here's the book by Nigel Nicolson:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316511544/qid=1057973039/sr=1-11/ref=sr_1_11/002-2847906-5791204?v=glance&s=books
Did you know another Keppel, male , had been the lover of William the
Silent...of William and Mary fame? Even in the 1600s, Camz family were
providing coutesans for the courts.
PK
PK
Candide
Yes, Woolf wrote "Orlando" about the affair and dedicated it to Vita. As
for Violet's husband he is truly someone out of that whole ménage I felt
sorry for. IIRC Violet really didn't wish to marry, but her mother
insisted and there really wasn't much else open for a woman of her
station then. Think Violet only married to gain some sort of "freedom"
that comes from being out of one's parents house. Her actions showed she
certainly could not have cared for her husband very much.
Vita's husband Harold was homosexual, having relations all over the
place and once even infected Vita with a STD picked up from one of his
encounters. Vita and Harold's marriage was one of those strange "English
Marriages" where more than sex and romantic love bonded them together.
Despite their "preferences" they stayed married until Vita's death in
1962 of cancer.
> At one time we lived near Knowle in Kent and there was stacks of local
> lore about the Sackville-Wests...
Have been dying to visit Sissinghurst Castle Garden, heard it is just
lovely.
> Here's the book by Nigel Nicolson:
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316511544/qid=1057973039/
sr=1-11/ref=sr_1_11/002-2847906-5791204?v=glance&s=books
Thanks for the link, have contemplated reading this book since PBS
showed a film adaptation a few months back.
> Did you know another Keppel, male , had been the lover of William the
> Silent...of William and Mary fame? Even in the 1600s, Camz family were
> providing coutesans for the courts.
>
>
Hmm, perhaps it would be wise not to bring one's spouse/lover around
this family! *LOL*
--
"I highly recommend worrying. It's much more effective than dieting."
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+___+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+__+_+_+
William Powell - Actor
Sacha
Garbage! The aristocracy is no more or less inclined towards
extra-marital affairs than any other section of society. This
sentence alone shows the bias that this article springs from!
People married as what might be called a 'business arrangement' in
those days and that was clearly understood. Marrying for love was
considered almost an 'indulgence'. Once the heir had been provided,
all knew that finding love elsewhere but remaining married to keep the
'contract' in place, was to be expected.
>
> Also, the mass media - which so careful coded its references to Edward
> VII's female companions - had taken a far more explicit interest in
> the love lives of the great and the good.
>
> But despite the very public humiliations Camilla has suffered since
> her affair with Prince came to light - partly due to Princess Diana's
> discussions with journalists and writers - she may in the end fare
> better than her great-grandmother.
>
> When Edward VII died in 1910, Alice Keppel found that the considerable
> influence she had enjoyed for 12 years was stopped with the beating of
> the king's heart.
>
> A woman seen by some as a power behind the throne was not even
> permitted to sign the book of condolence for her dead lover.
>
> Royal Mistresses - Alice and Camilla can be seen on BBC Two on Friday
> 11 July at 2100 BST.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3055376.stm
>
> So this dispels the popular lies of some of the dolts at AGR....that
> "the Highgrove purchase had nothing to do with Camilla." "That Camilla
> doesn't idolize Alice and seek to be just like her."
No, it shows that someone has written a rather spiteful and not very
accurate article. The main subject of this article is in fact, Alice
Keppel. The idea that Camilla was heavily influenced by her is
ridiculous as she died shortly after Camilla was born! Interested in
her famous ancestor, yes, influenced BY her, impossible.
And the article in the Daily Mail concluded by sayiing that while Mrs
Keppel was known to have had more than one lover since her marriage,
the same cannot be said of CPB.
--
Sacha
mhlife
"Sacha" <sa...@garden506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:581cbb20.03071...@posting.google.com...
> Garbage! The aristocracy is no more or less inclined towards
> extra-marital affairs than any other section of society<<<
_______________
This is untrue.
Early 20th C morality was entrenched amongst the working classes -
reinforced by the Methodist and Baptist chapels that largely catered for
that strata of society.
One has only to read Socialist classics, such as The Ragged Trousered
Philanthropists, to realise the innate decency of the Movement. Tressel
speaks of a need for 'wholesome' clubs for the working class to adjourn to
for recreation - where drunkenness, profanity and gambling would not be
tolerated.
He voiced the opinion that such clubs must be also be open to women and
children - "For, if a place is not fit for a woman or a child to enter, then
it is not fit to exist"
Tressel, of course, was motivated by a desire to free the working class from
the drunken stupor imposed upon them by the Breweries, which addled heir
brains and stopped them dwelling on the misery of their wretched existence -
but, even so, it contrasts extremely favourably with he filthy excesses and
vile perversions practised by 'upper class' harlots and sodomites, such as
the Bloomsbury Set.
One can only speculate what horrors awaited these disease ridden parasites
when they were finally compelled to leave behind their glittering social
whirl, and step fearfully into the darkness of the tomb.
They would tell you (if only they could!) that, in Hell, their former social
rank affords them no privileges.
PK
Yes, purported to be.
PK
I think it's rather telling that Harold Nicolson was selected to write
the bio on George V - his letters are full of mentions of time spent
with the RF; as ahemm, Diplomat, he was well within their circle.
>
>
> > At one time we lived near Knowle in Kent and there was stacks of local
> > lore about the Sackville-Wests...
>
> Have been dying to visit Sissinghurst Castle Garden, heard it is just
> lovely.
Of course the White Garden is the main triumph! Their Son Nigel
includes many examples of Harold and Vita's intricate planning of
their Masterpiece at Sissinghurst.
>
>
>
>
> > Here's the book by Nigel Nicolson:
> >
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316511544/qid=1057973039/
> sr=1-11/ref=sr_1_11/002-2847906-5791204?v=glance&s=books
>
> Thanks for the link, have contemplated reading this book since PBS
> showed a film adaptation a few months back.
>
> > Did you know another Keppel, male , had been the lover of William the
> > Silent...of William and Mary fame? Even in the 1600s, Camz family were
> > providing coutesans for the courts.
> >
> >
> Hmm, perhaps it would be wise not to bring one's spouse/lover around
> this family! *LOL*
It's rather interesting to read of late that Camilla already has
backup in place, at least two prospects, if Charles should discard her
or the other way round. It was a hoot to read Junor's explanation of
the 'glue' that binds C&C...horses and love of the Goons....a combo
shared by about 1/4 of the UK's inhabitants and never considered to be
romantic or stabilizing by any figment of the imagination...now if she
had said Norwegian Wood, et al.........
PK =)
PK
> "Sacha" <sa...@garden506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:581cbb20.03071...@posting.google.com...
>
>
> > Garbage! The aristocracy is no more or less inclined towards
> > extra-marital affairs than any other section of society<<<
>
> _______________
>
> This is untrue.
>
> Early 20th C morality was entrenched amongst the working classes -
> reinforced by the Methodist and Baptist chapels that largely catered for
> that strata of society.
I don't think the poster you replied to is, ahemm, coherent at any
rate, She keeps referring to this Television production as a newspaper
article! And can't even fathom that 20th century artists, for
instance, were influenced by those of the 17th century and apparently
hasn't viewed the online snaps of the interior of Milly's Ray Mill
House aka as King's Camilla's Gin Mill that features Camilla's shrine
to Alley Cat Alice....I think it may be Rex who has or had them
online.
Worst of all she doesn't know Britain's libel laws that prohibit
anything untrue about Mrs. PB and her family from appearing on telly.
[ or anyone else for that matter ]
PK
PK
Sacha
You know, PK, you really are going to have to stop berating others for
their lack of comprehension. YOU have quoted something from a BBC
site. Do you think that you are the only person to have *read*
something on this matter, or would it perhaps occur to you that there
is information from other sources - e.g. newspapers?
And I repeat - infidelity IS not and WAS not the sole preserve of the
aristocracy, nor has it ever been.
PS: I think your last sentence has just resulted in some holes in your
foot.
--
Sacha
Andy.3rd
>foot.
>--
>
>Sacha
I was wondering if it meant that all those statements on TV about Diana being
"mad" were actually true- according to PK's reasoning they MUST be!
His Illustrious and Most Serene Jadedness, Andy, RSM
G-B
mhlife wrote:
====
Or do you think it was probably because they were working 400 hours a day making
sure the aristocracy was comfortable that they didn't get much *time* to cavort?
Gioff
mhlife
"G-B" <tarn...@lexicon.net> wrote in message
news:3F1122E3...@lexicon.net...
> Or do you think it was probably because they were working 400 hours a day
making
> sure the aristocracy was comfortable that they didn't get much *time* to
cavort?
____________
No!. Mrs Exrxes sometimes tries to employ that old chestnut of an excuse -
and I don't tolerate from her, either!
A woman's duty is quite clear!, and if that means that she has to do the
cooking, cleaning, and ironing at double pace in order that she can find the
time to fulfil it - well, so be it!.............
One thing that every husband learns during the early stages of his marriage
is the propensity of women to idle away their time gossiping and drinking
tea. However, there is no need to have unpleasant shouting matches about
it - he must simply learn the art of standing in the doorway tapping a
riding crop against his boot - with just the merest hint of impatience.
That is usually enough to remind a wife to return to her tasks.
julian
================================================
Where exactly did she claim any of that? Of course there's other
information -- a point you can't stand when the skewered articles you
yourself post are refuted by other sources.
> And I repeat - infidelity IS not and WAS not the sole preserve of the
> aristocracy, nor has it ever been.
=================================================
No one said it was the sole preserve. The point is that it was more
characteristic of segments of the aristorcracy at certain points in
history.
> PS: I think your last sentence has just resulted in some holes in your
> foot.
==================================================
So you're denying there are libel laws in the United Kingdom and that
those libel laws could in some circumstances be used to sue a
publisher distributing material in the U.K. about this woman? Look at
your own huge feet, dear, they're riddled.
sacha Hubbard
p...@e-garfield.com wrote on 12/7/03 3:20 pm:
Huh? Which? Both of them? And purported by whom?
--
Sacha
Kelly
news:BB38A51E.38A%sa...@xgarden506.fsnet.co.uk...
Well seeing as to how she's heavily involved with the nephew of Lord
Rorborough (or however that's spelt -- his name's Harry Lopes), I doubt she
a lesbian. And seeing as to how he's got a new girlfriend every few months,
I doubt he's a homosexual. They could still be bisexual, but it's unlikely
they are strictly gay.
Kelly
--
What we see depends mainly on what we look for.
PK
In the case of Tom, one must remember that gay chappies are often seen
in the company of women....there's Elton and Dontello, Elton and Posh,
Elton and Diana, Elton and Kiki Dee.....[his ex-wife you know]
Jean Sue Libkind
sexuality of her children; what does one have to do with the other?
js
Breton
> So you're denying there are libel laws in the United Kingdom and that
> those libel laws could in some circumstances be used to sue a
> publisher distributing material in the U.K. about this woman? Look at
> your own huge feet, dear, they're riddled.
You are as stupid as PK. The point is that if statements made in the
press about Camilla are true because they are published, ipso facto
statements made about, for instance, Diana being mad must be true too,
because THEY were published.
Nick
sacha Hubbard
Elton openly lives with and is accompanied everywhere by David Furnish, his
constant and long-time companion. Do you KNOW of such a situation for Tom
PB - any kind of situation or are you just becoming homophobic in the case
of the PB family? Why on earth would it *matter* if he was gay or is this
somehow Mrs Keppel's fault for being Camilla's ancestor, or Camilla's fault
for being the PoW's constant companion?
It would be a black mark against her if her son (or daughter) were gay? Is
that it? Homosexuality is hereditary and it's ALL Mrs PB's 'fault' if one
or both of her children are gay? Does Mr PB have any gay people in his
ancestry or doesn't that interest your obsessive mind?
--
Sacha
Susan Cohen
>
> It would be a black mark against her if her son (or daughter) were gay?
Is
> that it? Homosexuality is hereditary and it's ALL Mrs PB's 'fault' if one
> or both of her children are gay?
Hey, you heard it here firsr, folks!
Scientists have been searching for years, and here it was all the time!
good grief....
SusanC
Andy.3rd
>Scientists have been searching for years, and here it was all the time!
>
>good grief....
>
>SusanC
Do you think Phil might be PK's longtime personal pastor... or has he just made
a new convert??
Holly W.
Elton John was never married to Kiki Dee. He married a woman named
Renate Blauel in the mid 1980's, but obviously it did not last. And I
assume by "Dontello" you mean Donatella Versace, the designer and
sister of the slain Gianni Versaci. She and Elton John are friends
and have known each other for many years. Elton John and his
companion David live together quite openly in the UK, so I don't
really understand what your point is here.
> PK
> http://www.voy.com/152883/
Holly W.
Now now, Sacha, you know Camilla Parker Bowles is responsible for
everything from losing the ozone layer to my tripping over a door jamb
the other day, so of course she's responsible for PK claiming her
children are gay (please note, the kids aren't gay, but Mrs Parker
Bowles is still responsible for PK's claims that they are).
julian
========================================================
Let's see, where did you refute a single one of my statements? (a), I
asked where PK said what Slacha is claiming, you don't answer that,
(b), I asked if libel laws could not be used on behalf of CPB, which
fact might deter distribution of some books in the U.K., which of
course you didn't answer. Furthermore, to answer your point (which
was not my original point), just because something is published about
one individual in the U.K. doesn't at all necessarily mean that other
books about other individuals are factually correct. It just means
that no interested party took the necessary legal steps which it might
have been possible to do in the U.K. at the time of publication, or
ahead of it.
Those are my points, which btw are not entirely at all what PK is
saying there. So who's stupid, and evasive to boot?
mhlife
"Andy.3rd" <agh...@aol.commotion> wrote in message
news:20030715143726...@mb-m26.aol.com...
> >Hey, you heard it here firsr, folks!
> >Scientists have been searching for years, and here it was all the time!
> >
> >good grief....
> >
> >SusanC
>
> Do you think Phil might be PK's longtime personal pastor... or has he just
made
> a new convert??
_________________
Praise the Lord, and pass the legislation!! - it's a backlash!
(and, no, I don't mean a bout of sexually motivated flagellation!....)
Andy.3rd
>(and, no, I don't mean a bout of sexually motivated flagellation!....)
ok- How about a bout of flagellarion motivated sexuality? You do know there
*is* a difference-right?
yaffaDina1
... snipped ...>
I seem to remember a child -- so long ago now, maybe 'it' was hers or
they talked about having one?
yD
PK
Nevermind his barking at the moon...he's merely a troll like most of
his maties, and such a poor one at that.
PK
Breton
>> Let's see, where did you refute a single one of my statements?
Let's see: I made my own comment which you can read for yourself.
>(a), I
> asked where PK said what Slacha is claiming, you don't answer that,
Actually, I did. (Although I inadvertantly reversed the quote)
> (b), I asked if libel laws could not be used on behalf of CPB, which
> fact might deter distribution of some books in the U.K., which of
> course you didn't answer. Furthermore, to answer your point (which
> was not my original point), just because something is published about
> one individual in the U.K. doesn't at all necessarily mean that other
> books about other individuals are factually correct.
That's like saying that a book that says something about Sir Winston
Churchill doesn't mean than a different book about Stirling Moss is
necessarily factually correct. Gibberish, which accurately sums up
your ravings.
Nick
mhlife
_____________
A subtle distinction, if I might say so - on a par with Nymphomaniacs and
Prostitutes (one lives to screw, the other screws to live)
mhlife
"Holly W." <Holl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:95c48218.03071...@posting.google.com...
> Elton John was never married to Kiki Dee.<
_______________
Lucky Ms Dee! (bisexuality is such a health hazard....)
He married a woman named
> Renate Blauel in the mid 1980's, but obviously it did not last.<
Well, no. Hardly surprising in the circumstances, eh? - perhaps she didn't
get along with Reggies chums........
Remember - 'the funeral ain't over until the fat homosexual sings.......'
Jean Sue Libkind
Holl...@yahoo.com wrote on 7/15/03 6:59 PM:
> Now now, Sacha, you know Camilla Parker Bowles is responsible for
> everything from losing the ozone layer to my tripping over a door jamb
> the other day, so of course she's responsible for PK claiming her
> children are gay (please note, the kids aren't gay, but Mrs Parker
> Bowles is still responsible for PK's claims that they are).
I keep forgetting that. Thanks!
js
sacha Hubbard
jea...@bookschlepper.com wrote on 16/7/03 10:50 pm:
Her only fault is that she forgot piles, halitosis, greenfly, slugs, 'flu,
and unruly eyebrows.
--
Sacha
Holly W.
Those, too.;)