Lady Tatiana Mountbatten
Tom and Penny Wilson
Mountbatten, and she told me that Nada's daughter Tatiana lived most of
her life in a mental instutition. My in-laws adopted a mentally
handicapped child, so we are very interested in how other families
handle things, as well as in how these cases were handled historically.
What was Tatiana's condition? And what were the events leading to her
virtually life-long commission?
Penny
C. Metz-Longinette-Göring
>
> I was talking to a friend about the recent ATR thread on Nada
> Mountbatten, and she told me that Nada's daughter Tatiana lived
> most of her life in a mental instutition.
Ahh, the infamous Nadejda Mikhailovna, Countess de Torby, known
as "Nada" (which incidentally, is Spanish for "nothing," tee, hee)
and who was also a ferocious lesbian.
Made for a bummer of a marriage to George Mountbatten, the second
Marquess of Milford Haven. Nada was the product of a morganatic
marriage; her father was Grand Duke Mikhail Mikhailovich, whose
choice of Sophia von Merenberg as a spouse resulted in their
effective exile from Imperial Russia, which, in the end analysis,
more than likely saved their lives. Nada was born in Cannes
in 1896 (where she would also die in 1963.)
One year and one day after her marriage to George, Nada gave birth
to their first child, Lady Tatiana Elizabeth Mountbatten, on 16
December 1917.
> What was Tatiana's condition? And what were the events leading
> her virtually life-long commission?
I do not know much about Lady Tatiana, but it would not surprise me
if she was treated like many of other children of titled families
that are retarded. Until relatively recently, there was not much
of an "enlightened" attitude towards the mentally handicapped.
Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy was unusual in her grim determination to
assure her eldest daughter Rosemary's Life be as "normal" as she
could make it. Unfortunately, while Rose was traveling in Europe,
Joe Kennedy decided he would take matters into his own hands,
and without informing nor consulting his wife, had Rosemary, would
have become quite a handful emotionally, frustrated by her
inability to "keep up" and now with rages befitting her adult size,
lobotomized. What this entailed was an opening was made in her skull
above the frontal lobe. The patient was conscious, and as long as
the patient could count, for example, or recite certain easy facts,
brain material was literally scooped out with a surgical instrument
that resembled a sharp spoon. The idea was to temper patients
emotionally.
Whatever his intent, the consequences to Rosemary were disastrous,
and Rose Kennedy returned to Europe to discover her daughter had
been shuttled off to an expensive "home" which is something she
had worked so hard to prevent. I would imagine Joe and Rose had
a few words over this - he even failed to tell Rose about the
lobotomy itself for a time.
It probably became evident all too soon, even to such a
disinterested mother as Nada, that there was something wrong with
Tatiana. With the birth of David two years later, not to mention
the scandals in which Nada involved herself, there was probably
precious little of a "home life." Also, it is very possible that
Tatiana was more than "mildly retarded" but obviously so. Children
such as Rosemary could be kept under control and educated to a
certain degree. That Tatiana was shuttled off to an institution,
away from family, friends and the eyes of society, denotes more
than a sitiation that could be discreetly handled at home.
Adding to the modes of the Time, was the fact that it does not
appear that the jet-setting, travel-itchy Nada was much interested
in cozy domesticity in England. A retarded daughter might have
aroused her momentary pity, but it does not appear that Nada took
too great of an interest in her firstborn. Nada was no Alix of
Denmark, fond of fun but wanting to be surrounded by her children.
Nada was spirited, wild and more than a tad of a hedonist. She
wanted to enjoy every titillation, and was unencumbered by her
marriage vows or two children.
Tatiana died in 1988 at St.Andrew's Hospital in Northampton, at
the age of seventy.
The current Queen Mother had two retarded paternal aunts, I believe,
who lived out their lives also institutionalized.
--
- CEM-L-G
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http://www.ionet.net/~walkuere/
"Who can refute a sneer?"
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Marlene A Koenig
Her family cared for her but were unable to care for her in a physical sense
-- Nada could not handle a mentally handicapped child. Nada had her own
problems. She was bi-sexual, and lived a party girl's life. Tatiana's
father, George, maintained a huge pornographic library. Interesting
parents.
The present Marquess of MIlford Haven named his daughter, Tatiana, in honor,
of her great-aunt
--
and author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
published by Rosvall Royal Books
Publisher of Royal Book News, the only newsletter for and about
Royal Books
JWGariepy
>The current Queen Mother had two retarded paternal aunts, I believe,
>who lived out their lives also institutionalized.
I have often wondered what the relationship between the Queen Mother, as well
as her daughters, and the Bowes-Lyon relatives is/was like. I remember reading
in many earlier (pre 1950's) accounts of their lives that they associated with
Elphinstones, Leveson-Gowers (sp?) and the like, but has this been kept up?
Are they present at Royal occaisions? Does the QM keep up any sort of
relationship with her old homes at Glamis and St. Paul's Walden Bury and those
who now occupy them?
Jake Gariepy
Marlene A Koenig
number of family members on the Strathmore side.
Glamis Castle is of course the residence of the Earl of Strathmore
and Kinghorne -- and St. Paul's Walden Bury most likely is now the
residence of Simon Bowes Lyon - in fact, it is the residence of Simon
and his family (Simon being the son of Sir David Bowes Lyon and his wife
Rachel, both of who are deceased. According to the book, Hertfordshire's
Queen by Richard Whitmore, the Queen MOther continues to make private
visits to her (one) of her childhood homes, and she takes communion
with Simon and Caroline and their family at the local Church, All
Saints.
The two Bowes Lyon girls who were institutionalized at a young age
were Nerissa and Katherine. They were 2 of 4 daughters of Hon
John Bowes Lyon and his wife The Hon. Fenella Hepburn-Stuart=Forbes-Trefusis.
Thus, the two girls were first cousins to Queen Elizabeth II. But it
is unlikely that the Queen or her mother knew what had really happened to
the two girls until the story broke in the mid-1980s.
Fenella and John also had two other daughters, Anne, who married Viscount
Anson (who predeceased his father the Earl of Lichfield) - and they had two
kids, the present Earl and Lady Elizabeth Anson, THE Party planner of all
party planners; and Diana Cinderella, who married Peter Somervell.
The story broke on April 6, 1987. Nerissa and Katherine were taken to
the Royal Earlswood Mental Hospital on the same day as their maternal
cousins, Edonia, Rosemary and Ethelreda Fane (3 of the four daugters
of the Hon. Harriet Fane, sister of Fenella). All five suffered
from severe mental retardation - an affliction that had affected
a number of members of the Hepburn etc family (Harriet and Fenella
were the daughters of Baron Clinton.
Lady Elizabeth Anson described her grandmother as a "very vague person."
All five girls had come to the hospital from a childrens home that had closed.
Nerissa died in 1986. Katherine a few years ago.
Tom and Penny Wilson
Marlene A Koenig wrote:
> The two Bowes Lyon girls who were institutionalized at a young age
> were Nerissa and Katherine. They were 2 of 4 daughters of Hon
> John Bowes Lyon and his wife The Hon. Fenella Hepburn-Stuart=Forbes-Trefusis.
> Thus, the two girls were first cousins to Queen Elizabeth II. But it
> is unlikely that the Queen or her mother knew what had really happened to
> the two girls until the story broke in the mid-1980s.
> Fenella and John also had two other daughters, Anne, who married Viscount
> Anson (who predeceased his father the Earl of Lichfield) - and they had two
> kids, the present Earl and Lady Elizabeth Anson, THE Party planner of all
> party planners; and Diana Cinderella, who married Peter Somervell.
>
> The story broke on April 6, 1987. Nerissa and Katherine were taken to
> the Royal Earlswood Mental Hospital on the same day as their maternal
> cousins, Edonia, Rosemary and Ethelreda Fane (3 of the four daugters
> of the Hon. Harriet Fane, sister of Fenella). All five suffered
> from severe mental retardation - an affliction that had affected
> a number of members of the Hepburn etc family (Harriet and Fenella
> were the daughters of Baron Clinton.
>
> Nerissa died in 1986. Katherine a few years ago.
Which brings me back to my original question -- what of Lady Tatiana Mountbatten?
All of this stuff about Nerissa and Katherine Bowes-Lyon is easily accessible from
newspaper archives, as the story broke only a few years ago, but Tatiana? She's
definitely a descendant of Queen Victoria, Marlene, surely you know something
through your research? Or did you not research her beyond finding out that she
was mentally handicapped?
It is parenthetically interesting that so many members of the Hepburn family were
so handicapped. Does anyone know the nature of their retardation? I can't say
I've heard of such an occurance in any other family -- 5 people in one generation
is alot! If no-one has any suggestions, I'll have to ask my father-in-law the
psychiatrist if he can make any suggestions: I don't think there are too many
congenital/genetic mental handicaps passed so frequently...
Penny
Marlene A Koenig
of Victoria that I will never discuss or write about. I mentioned
in another post that Lady Tatiana was severely retarded, was
hospitalized for nearly all her life, that her family did keep in contact
with her, that the present Lord Milford Haven named his daughter after his
aunt. Lady Tatiana did make an appearance as a child attendant at the wedding
of Lord Louis Mountbatten (as he was at the time) and the Hon. Edwina Ashley.
Nada and George were unable to cope with caring for such a child -
and she was institutionalized.
-- let me change that -- she was a bridal attendant at the wedding of
Lady Louise Mountbatten --
She did live with her mother for a time in Cannes -and she also attended
Pss Elizabeth's wedding.
Barb
Marlene A Koenig wrote:
> Penny -- Lady Tatiana was severely mentally handicapped -childlike.
> Her family cared for her but were unable to care for her in a physical sense
Didn't they have much money? Were they poor folks? Didn't have a pot?
> -- Nada could not handle a mentally handicapped child. Nada had her own
> problems. She was bi-sexual, and lived a party girl's life.
Bi-sexuality was a problem? Being a party girl was a problem? I don't get it!
What's the problem with bi-sexuality? What's the problem with being a party
girl? All the ones I've ever know were having more fun than I was. I was always
working over-time to cover for them while they partied. Of course, they always
called the supervisor and told him they were too sick to work. Sick!! My hind
leg!! The next day they would be bragging about what a good time they had at the
party!
> Tatiana's
> father, George, maintained a huge pornographic library. Interesting
> parents.
See, Ellmo! I told you so! A lot of people are interested in other people's sex
lives! I am, too ------when I'm reminded of it.
> The present Marquess of MIlford Haven named his daughter, Tatiana, in honor,
> of her great-aunt
Oh, I had a friend who did something like that! When we were 8, she found some
papers in a secret compartment in a chest. They were about her great-aunt who
was a whore! My friend said, "When I grow up, I'm going to name my daughter
after her!" And she did!! No one in the whole town understood why she and I were
laughing about the kid's name!
cq
--
Rules should apply to everyone - including YOU! ---- Phil Exerxes
Tom and Penny Wilson
Marlene A Koenig wrote:
> Penny == there are a lot of things I know about different descendants
> of Victoria that I will never discuss or write about.
I didn't ask you about this. Why interject it? Is it to sneer at me? Or to make
yourself look cool?
Obviously those who research living people have access to personal info that
should be kept confidential. I must say that I do a better job of this than you.
I know many people connected in various ways to events of Russian history, but you
will not be able to name one, because I never name-drop. I never say, as you
have a few times, "I spoke to so-and-so about x..." thus setting your scenario to
reply high-handedly "Oh, I never divulge personal conversations" when some poor
fool here asks "Well, what did they say?" And before you ask for an example, I'll
give you one. Someone several months ago asked if it was true that a certain
German princeling had committed suicide. You came back with the leading statement
that you'd spoken to his mother about it. The original questionner came back with
the obvious follow up "What did she say?" And you, having set him up, proceeded
to knock him down and out. Your machinations are painfully transparent.
Let me develop this further. Am I the only one who's noticed that your posts have
become (finally) more informational and less comprehensively self-aggrandizing
since Candace began sending her superb posts? Are you perhaps feeling a little
miffed because people give her kudos for her writing? Your transparency leads me
to believe that you are.
> Lady Tatiana did make an appearance as a child attendant at the wedding
> of Lord Louis Mountbatten (as he was at the time) and the Hon. Edwina Ashley.
> Nada and George were unable to cope with caring for such a child -
> and she was institutionalized.
> -- let me change that -- she was a bridal attendant at the wedding of
> Lady Louise Mountbatten --
>
> She did live with her mother for a time in Cannes -and she also attended
> Pss Elizabeth's wedding.
Why didn't you just give the info, instead of giving it with one hand and slapping
with the other?
True, this is a remarkably mild display of your personality problem, Marlene, but
I've seen far too many vicious examples of it before, mostly aimed at people who
surf in here for a little light entertainment, but sometimes -- and perhaps more
unforgiveably -- directed against your peers(just check your tirade in response to
Bob Atcheson's little question about Schloss Romrod of a few months ago on atr).
Here's a newsflash Marlene: The study of royalty is not life's blood for most of
the people who visit here. Some people come because they enjoy gossip. Some
come for light information. Some, like me, who conduct research, whether it be
for a book or a PhD, come here for a break. None of us come here to be treated in
a rude and offensive manner -- except, now we apparently do.
You know, Marlene, you and one or two others here speak to people in a way no
human being should speak to another. As you may know, my husband Tom is
Hawaiian. I call him over to my computer screen sometimes to read your responses
to people. He always says "She needs some Aloha." Do you know what that means?
The aloha spirit is essentially "The god/God in me greeting the god/God in you."
Pay more than lip service to your Lutheran God, Marlene, and try behaving as he
would have you behave.
Well, I guess this is the explosion. It's been coming for a while. Take a look
at this newsgroup. Phil is the least of your worries. This is now a place to
bitch at others, whine about our illnesses, and attack people. Marlene isn't the
only bad and nasty attitude by any means, but she was the one who added the straw
that broke this camel's back this morning.
I may check back in a few months to see if things have improved, but for now --
color me gone.
I've made a number of friends here, like Candace and Wull(who has helped with a
computer problem), and have come in contact with several people I admire
immensely, like Morley(Chalet Girls forever!) and I hope they will feel free to
stay in touch via e-mail.
For those of you who are truly interested in history, and who are abandoning ship
at an alarming rate these days, please stay tuned here for just a week or so
longer -- there's a life-boat on the way(a cryptic message, I know, but go with it
-- you won't be sorry you hung around!).
The rest of you, from the personality problems like Marlene to the truly sick
fucks like Joan, well -- you can bite me.
Penny Wilson
Carol Farquhar
>
>Marlene A Koenig wrote:
>
>> Penny -- Lady Tatiana was severely mentally handicapped -childlike.
>> Her family cared for her but were unable to care for her in a physical sense
>> problems. She was bi-sexual, and lived a party girl's life.
>> father, George, maintained a huge pornographic library. Interesting
>> parents.
>
This is the same George and Nada that testified at the Gloria
Vanderbilt custody trial, isn't it? Gloria Sr. and little Gloria
were staying with George and Nada and their maid testified
finding pornographic material and seeing Nada kiss Gloria Sr.
The judge promptly cleared the courtroom.
Poor Little Rich Girl is the source for this information and
while it's not strictly about royalty, there are some delicious
tidbits about George and Nada as well as David, PoW.
Carol
To reply take the 1 off my name
Marlene A Koenig
I am not sneering at you. I am telling you that I know a lot about
many descendants and I am not going to share that private information
here on AGR. My response was to say, Yes, I do, but I am not going
to write about it.
Marlene A Koenig
and not his younger brother, Louis, was the guardian of young Prince
Philip of Greece and Denmark.
Barb
Carol Farquhar wrote:
Oh, thanks, Carol, I just love "delicious", don't you? ;o)
olga...@hotmail.co.uk
> I was talking to a friend about the recent ATR thread on Nada
> Mountbatten, and she told me that Nada's daughter Tatiana lived most of
> handicapped child, so we are very interested in how other families
> handle things, as well as in how these cases were handled historically.
> What was Tatiana's condition? And what were the events leading to her
> virtually life-long commission?
>
> Penny