Re: "Hawaii Won’t Send Official Confirmation Of Obama’s Birth To Arizona"- Florida eligibility challenge fermenting. Obama administration PAYBACK to Arizona

walt tonne

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May 21, 2012, 7:42:57 AM5/21/12

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On May 21, 2:46 am, "PJ O'D" <gapa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Hawaii Won’t Send Official Confirmation Of Obama’s Birth To Arizona"-
> Florida eligibility challenge fermenting. Obama administration PAYBACK
> to Arizona
>
> MAY 20, 2012
>
> "Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett is saying he is “stunned” that
> after eight weeks election officials in Hawaii still have not provided
> him with even so much as an Email confirming they have proper
> documentation on record regarding Barack Obama’s official birth
> certificate...
>
> ...Because of their lack of official reply, Bennett is considering
> keeping Obama off of the Democrat ballot in Arizona!..
>
> “Hawaii can’t or won’t answer. . .do you have a birth certificate for
> this guy?” ...
>
> ...Florida‘s eligibility challenge is still alive with Attorney Larry
> E. Klayman representing Citizen Mike Voeltz in a case that already has
> gone through 19 preliminary motions, hearings, and filings, since
> being put on the docket of Judge Terry Lewis on 2-15-2012. Case No. 37
> 2012 CA 000467 has eight different attorneys representing the original
> defendant Florida SoS Ken Detzner , the Florida Election Canvassing
> Commission and Barack Obama whose attorney is Stephen F. Rosenthal.
> The latest entry came on May 14 in the crucial battleground state most
> pundits agree Obama must have to be reelected in November.
>
> “If Obama loses Florida, he WILL lose the Presidency,” Plaintiff’s
> Attorney Klayman told the Naples, Fl first ever Eligibility Conference
> held on April 21...."
>
> PAYBACK: Obama administration would let Arizona cities dry up and blow
> away
>
> "Whether due to the investigation into his birth certificate or
> challenge of the fed’s failure to enforce immigration laws, it seems
> the Obama administration is focusing a lot of their attention on
> destroying the state and its cities
>
> Last year, a forest fire ravished the Huachuca Mountains near
> Tombstone. After the fire burned most of the vegetation in the area,
> the summer monsoon rains washed tons of silt, mud and boulders into
> the water collection system that the city relies on.
>
> You would think that there would be no problem in repairing their
> water supply system, but the Obama administration is doing their best
> to prevent the town from doing so.
>
> According to Julie Decker, the deputy state director in the US
> Department of the Interior:
>
> “Federal water rights are entitled to a form of protection that is
> broader than what may be provided to similarly situated state law
> rights holders.”...
>
> letter went on to explain that water is not necessarily legally
> available to all users who intend to develop or improve property in
> the area and that federal jurisdiction supersedes state and local
> rights because,
>
> “The expressed federal reserved water right created by Congress is
> senior to all junior water users who initiate uses after the date of
> the establishment of the reservation.”
>
> It seems the feds are trying to assert their muscle and take full
> control of all water rights in many places in the southwest...."
>
> It's so characteristic of Obama to pull this kind of crap but it shows
> just how far he will go to get back at those who dare to oppose him.
> For years, he's been stewin over Brewer's audacity in standing up to
> him, and with Obama, it's all about saving face and payback.
>
> The fact that Arizona, the epicenter of opposition to Obama, has drawn
> unrelenting fire from the Holder in-justice system, means that AZ is a
> real threat to this tyrannical regime and is doing something right.
>
> google for sources

The only thing we know about Obama's past is that him mother had sex
with
at least one negro.

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/ The Occidental Observer

meport

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May 23, 2012, 4:31:35 PM5/23/12

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Did you know that on the day that Obama was purportedly born there were UFO
sightings defy any and all explanations and reason? The sighting and all
the reports of the sightings are so secret that they were never included in
Project Blue Book and they defy any explanation other than the facts that
occurred and happened. If you want to know where Obama really came from,
just get a copy of these reports. Then you'll REALLY KNOW, won't you?
---
meport

"walt tonne" wrote in message
news:ba03b1bf-0340-42de...@t23g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...

Doppelganger

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May 24, 2012, 3:48:34 AM5/24/12

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On 05/23/2012 01:31 PM, meport wrote:
> Did you know that on the day that Obama was purportedly born there were
> UFO sightings defy any and all explanations and reason? The sighting and
> all the reports of the sightings are so secret that they were never
> included in Project Blue Book and they defy any explanation other than
> the facts that occurred and happened. If you want to know where Obama
> really came from, just get a copy of these reports. Then you'll REALLY
> KNOW, won't you?
> ---

Lots of people took massive shits all around the world on the same day.
Odds are it was one of those mud sharks who took a shit in Kenya that
birthed the village idiot.

Dano

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May 24, 2012, 10:27:27 AM5/24/12

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"Doppelganger" wrote in message news:jpkp4m$201$2...@wieslauf.sub.de...

====================================

Didn't realize you were from Kenya. How interesting.

Bill Graham

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May 24, 2012, 5:27:28 PM5/24/12

to

meport wrote:
> Did you know that on the day that Obama was purportedly born there
> were UFO sightings defy any and all explanations and reason? The
> sighting and all the reports of the sightings are so secret that they
> were never included in Project Blue Book and they defy any
> explanation other than the facts that occurred and happened. If you
> want to know where Obama really came from, just get a copy of these
> reports. Then you'll REALLY KNOW, won't you? ---
> meport

As a libertarian, I am willing to believe a lot of rotten things about
Obama, but that he is an alien from some other planet? - I don't think so.
Unfortunately, he is all too human. I truely wish he was more like my five
cats.... Perfectly willing to just leve me alone and do their own thing.

meport

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May 25, 2012, 12:51:27 PM5/25/12

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How about we do this. I'll start supporting the premise that Obama should
release his birth certificate and all the supporting documentation that goes
with it AFTER Bush releases all the documentation that he has that will
prove that he didn't desert from the Texas Air National Guard. He must have
a some documents someplace, even though the Texas Air National Guard is
steadfast in it's assertions that they lost all his documentation and the
Alabama Air National Guard is steadfast in it's assertions that Bush never
was in the Alabama Air National Guard.

So tit for tat, right?

---
meport

"walt tonne" wrote in message
news:ba03b1bf-0340-42de...@t23g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...

anim8rFSK

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May 25, 2012, 3:21:13 PM5/25/12

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In article <CZmdnX_hGukTJSLS...@earthlink.com>,

"meport" <jjm...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> How about we do this. I'll start supporting the premise that Obama should
> release his birth certificate and all the supporting documentation that goes
> with it AFTER Bush releases all the documentation that he has that will
> prove that he didn't desert from the Texas Air National Guard. He must have
> a some documents someplace, even though the Texas Air National Guard is
> steadfast in it's assertions that they lost all his documentation and the
> Alabama Air National Guard is steadfast in it's assertions that Bush never
> was in the Alabama Air National Guard.
>
> So tit for tat, right?

Nope. Bush's service wasn't a requirement for running for President.
All they're doing is saying Obama has to verify his claim. They did the
same thing for McCain. The difference is, McCain complied.

--
So we're all agreed that Clod is as stupid as Charlie Sheen?

Propecia Washington

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May 25, 2012, 5:17:25 PM5/25/12

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Only a few die hards still believe Obama is an American citizen.

Daryl

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May 25, 2012, 5:41:04 PM5/25/12

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As doe Hannity and ORielly. Berthers are just too radical on
this subject. I didn't vote for Obama but he DID provide a copy
of his Birth Certificate. One short version your parents get and
the long version that's on file with the Hospital you are born
at. He complied. Get over it. Harp on something that he's
proven to be guilty of instead of this friggin witch hunt that no
one can disprove. If God, Jesus and Moses were to say he was
born in the US then you all would be working with Iran to
disprove two out of the three.

--
http://tvmoviesforfree.com
for free movies and Nostalgic TV. Tons of Military shows and
programs.

Mason Barge

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May 25, 2012, 6:03:00 PM5/25/12

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The same is true for C++. The difference is, C++ compiled.

There are 10 kinds of people, those who get this joke and those who don't.

deadrat

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May 25, 2012, 6:03:39 PM5/25/12

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No, the difference is that McCain's compliance couldn't show he was a
natural born citizen. He was born abroad, and the law didn't make him a
citizen at birth.

> Only a few die hards still believe Obama is an American citizen.

Yeah, just those who can read and reason.

David

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May 25, 2012, 6:25:06 PM5/25/12

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On Fri, 25 May 2012 12:21:13 -0700, anim8rFSK <anim...@cox.net>
wrote:

People like you, who pretend to be asking legitimate questions but
will never be satisfied with any answers, are even worse than the
nutjobs because of your smug pretense of approaching the issue
reasonably. But you are doing a bang-up job pushing the Republican
party to the brink as no major political party could survive in the
long-term when its official stances become nearly indistinguishable
from conspiracy theories.

>So we're all agreed that Clod is as stupid as Charlie Sheen?

I hope we don't die in a fiery ball of irony when your signature has
it under such intense pressure.

Tom

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May 25, 2012, 6:47:39 PM5/25/12

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On May 25, 4:17 pm, Propecia Washington

<saniasisterin...@Dallasmud.com> wrote:
> On 05/25/2012 12:21 PM, anim8rFSK wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > In article<CZmdnX_hGukTJSLSnZ2dnUVZ_sWdn...@earthlink.com>,
> > "meport"<jjme...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
> >> How about we do this. I'll start supporting the premise that Obama should
> >> release his birth certificate and all the supporting documentation that goes
> >> with it AFTER Bush releases all the documentation that he has that will
> >> prove that he didn't desert from the Texas Air National Guard. He must have
> >> a some documents someplace, even though the Texas Air National Guard is
> >> steadfast in it's assertions that they lost all his documentation and the
> >> Alabama Air National Guard is steadfast in it's assertions that Bush never
> >> was in the Alabama Air National Guard.
>
> >> So tit for tat, right?
>
> > Nope. Bush's service wasn't a requirement for running for President.
> > All they're doing is saying Obama has to verify his claim. They did the
> > same thing for McCain. The difference is, McCain complied.
>
> Only a few die hards still believe Obama is an American citizen.

Only if a few equals ~75%

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20056061-503544.html

Are you stupid, or just being silly?

Tom

W/Q

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May 25, 2012, 7:21:33 PM5/25/12

to

On May 25, 3:21 pm, anim8rFSK <anim8r...@cox.net> wrote:
> In article <CZmdnX_hGukTJSLSnZ2dnUVZ_sWdn...@earthlink.com>,
>

> "meport" <jjme...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > How about we do this. I'll start supporting the premise that Obama should
> > release his birth certificate and all the supporting documentation that goes
> > with it AFTER Bush releases all the documentation that he has that will
> > prove that he didn't desert from the Texas Air National Guard. He must have
> > a some documents someplace, even though the Texas Air National Guard is
> > steadfast in it's assertions that they lost all his documentation and the
> > Alabama Air National Guard is steadfast in it's assertions that Bush never
> > was in the Alabama Air National Guard.
>
> > So tit for tat, right?
>
> Nope. Bush's service wasn't a requirement for running for President.
> All they're doing is saying Obama has to verify his claim. They did the
> same thing for McCain. The difference is, McCain complied.

Well, sort of. The Senate actually had to pass a resolution to affirm
that McCain "qualified" as citizen material in his run for the
presidency. Why would that need to be done if there was supposed to
be no question at all as to his being a citizen? No such resolution
was needed to be passed for Obama, though, who, incidentally, voted in
favor of McCain's "qualification". Nice, huh?

Greegor

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May 25, 2012, 7:00:38 PM5/25/12

to

On May 25, 4:41 pm, Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote:
> As doe Hannity and ORielly. Berthers are just too radical on
> this subject. I didn't vote for Obama but he DID provide a copy
> of his Birth Certificate. One short version your parents get and
> the long version that's on file with the Hospital you are born
> at. He complied. Get over it. Harp on something that he's
> proven to be guilty of instead of this friggin witch hunt that no
> one can disprove. If God, Jesus and Moses were to say he was
> born in the US then you all would be working with Iran to
> disprove two out of the three.

Have you seen his publicist blurbs from
1991, 1998, 2004 or 2007?
The bio claims he was born in Kenya
then raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.
This is his OWN publicist! ROFL

1991:
Barack Obama, the first African-American president of the Harvard Law
Review, was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii. The son
of an American anthropologist and a Kenyan finance minister, he
attended Columbia University and worked as a financial journalist and
editor for Business International Corporation. He served as project
coordinator in Harlem for the New York Public Interest Research Group,
and was Executive Director of the Developing Communities Project in
Chicago’s South Side. His commitment to social and racial issues will
be evident in his first book, Journeys in Black and White.

1998:
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Screen-Shot-20120517-at-32828-PM.png

2004 AP:
Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take
over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped
out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club
allegations.

2007:
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Screen-Shot-20120517-at-41157-PM.png

http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/67699/barack-obama-born-in-kenya-for-16-years/

Barack Obama, Born in Kenya for 16 Years
By Larry Johnson http://NoQuarterUSA.net
About: Larry C. Johnson is a former analyst at the U.S. Central
Intelligence Agency, who moved subsequently in 1989 to the U.S.
Department of State, where he served four years as the deputy director
for transportation security, antiterrorism assistance training, and
special operations in the State Department's Office of
Counterterrorism. He left government service in October 1993 and set
up a consulting business. He currently is the co-owner and CEO of BERG
Associates, LLC (Business Exposure Reduction Group) and is an expert
in the fields of terrorism, aviation security, and crisis and risk
management, and money laundering investigations. Johnson is the
founder and main author of No Quarter, a weblog that addresses issues
of terrorism and intelligence and politics. NoQuarterUSA was nominated
as Best Political Blog of 2008.See Authors Posts (1836) on May 18,
2012 at 4:42 PM in Current Affairs

This is not my opinion. This is a fact from Barack Obama. From 1991
thru most of 2007, he told the public that he was “born in Kenya.” His
PR flacks want you to believe that they made a simple mistake, like me
typing “Hawaii” when I meant to type “Kenya.” But that is complete,
utter bullshit. When I learned I made a mistake I corrected it
immediately. Barack Obama deliberately and purposefully promoted the
myth that he was born in Kenya. We don’t have a single instance of him
prior to 2007 insisting that he was born in Hawaii rather than Kenya.
NOT ONE TIME!!

The “why” is quite simple–he wanted to persuade the lefties in Chicago
politics that they had a genuine, black African ready to run for
office. You can’t get more authentic than that. It’s like a white
person trying to convince others that she is a Cheerokee Injun.
Frankly, I’m stunned that most of this did not come out in 2008. It is
outrageous. Barack Obama lied his half-white ass off. Black like him?
Fuck him and his lies.

As I noted in this morning’s post, the lie started in earnest in 1991
when he allowed his publicist to put out the claim:

Barack Obama, the first African-American president of the Harvard Law
Review, was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii. The son
of an American anthropologist and a Kenyan finance minister, he
attended Columbia University and worked as a financial journalist and
editor for Business International Corporation. He served as project
coordinator in Harlem for the New York Public Interest Research Group,
and was Executive Director of the Developing Communities Project in
Chicago’s South Side. His commitment to social and racial issues will
be evident in his first book, Journeys in Black and White.

Do you really understand how stunning this is?
If you have ever appeared as a pundit on television, written an op-ed
for the New York Times or written a book (or thought about writing a
book), you are keenly interested in what people saying and writing
about you. When someone like Acton & Dystel put out a book with your
bio prominently displayed you can bet your half-white ass that you get
copies of that book and spread it around to family and friends.

Barack Obama and his team think you are a fucking moron. They think
they can tell you, “OOPS, it was a simple editorial error.” Well, that
steaming turd might float in a bowl of sand, but not here. That
mistake was not a one time thing. It was not a one week or one month
event. It lasted 16 years.

In 1998, seven years later (and with an updated blurb no less) Obama
was still “born in Kenya.”

Once again, you are asked to believe that a professional publicist
does not verify facts with his or her client. Really? They are that
incompetent? Don’t buy that crap sandwich for a second.

Back to archive.org. They did it again in 2005:

And also in 2007:

Each time, “OBAMA BORN IN KENYA.”

Since 1998 the internet has been available. Barack Obama was a man on
the make and positioning himself for great things. He had a story to
tell and damn well ensured that folks in Chicago knew that he was
international guy, who was BORN IN KENYA.

Even the AP got into the act. In 2004 they headlined Obama’s Kenyan
roots with this opening salvo:

Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take
over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped
out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club
allegations.

Once is a mistake. Five times is a goddamned pattern of behavior. The
question needs to be asked over and over, “WHY DID BARACK OBAMA CLAIM
FOR SIXTEEN YEARS THAT HE WAS BORN IN KENYA?”

Why? I’m waiting till hell freezes over.

Daryl

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May 25, 2012, 8:18:33 PM5/25/12

to

On 5/25/2012 5:00 PM, Greegor wrote:
> On May 25, 4:41 pm, Daryl<dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote:
>> As doe Hannity and ORielly. Berthers are just too radical on
>> this subject. I didn't vote for Obama but he DID provide a copy
>> of his Birth Certificate. One short version your parents get and
>> the long version that's on file with the Hospital you are born
>> at. He complied. Get over it. Harp on something that he's
>> proven to be guilty of instead of this friggin witch hunt that no
>> one can disprove. If God, Jesus and Moses were to say he was
>> born in the US then you all would be working with Iran to
>> disprove two out of the three.
>
> Have you seen his publicist blurbs from
> 1991, 1998, 2004 or 2007?
> The bio claims he was born in Kenya
> then raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.
> This is his OWN publicist! ROFL

Care to come with something other than a Rep Superpac site to
verify this? How about the original article from one of the news
agencies. Hell, even Fox. But it's just not there. Now I
suppose Obama has threatened the news agencies to never admit it
exists. Fox would never bend to that blackmail. So, your cite
is bogus like the superpac that produces the site.

>
> 1991:
> Barack Obama, the first African-American president of the Harvard Law
> Review, was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii. The son
> of an American anthropologist and a Kenyan finance minister, he
> attended Columbia University and worked as a financial journalist and
> editor for Business International Corporation. He served as project
> coordinator in Harlem for the New York Public Interest Research Group,
> and was Executive Director of the Developing Communities Project in

> Chicagoï¿½s South Side. His commitment to social and racial issues will

> be evident in his first book, Journeys in Black and White.
>
> 1998:
> http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Screen-Shot-20120517-at-32828-PM.png

Again, you need a credible cite. This is just another tool site
for a superpac.

>
> 2004 AP:
> Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take
> over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped
> out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club
> allegations.
>
> 2007:
> http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Screen-Shot-20120517-at-41157-PM.png

Not credible.

>
>
>
>
> http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/67699/barack-obama-born-in-kenya-for-16-years/

Come up with better cites if you wish to be believed.

>
> Barack Obama, Born in Kenya for 16 Years
> By Larry Johnson http://NoQuarterUSA.net
> About: Larry C. Johnson is a former analyst at the U.S. Central
> Intelligence Agency, who moved subsequently in 1989 to the U.S.
> Department of State, where he served four years as the deputy director
> for transportation security, antiterrorism assistance training, and
> special operations in the State Department's Office of
> Counterterrorism. He left government service in October 1993 and set
> up a consulting business. He currently is the co-owner and CEO of BERG
> Associates, LLC (Business Exposure Reduction Group) and is an expert
> in the fields of terrorism, aviation security, and crisis and risk
> management, and money laundering investigations. Johnson is the
> founder and main author of No Quarter, a weblog that addresses issues
> of terrorism and intelligence and politics. NoQuarterUSA was nominated
> as Best Political Blog of 2008.See Authors Posts (1836) on May 18,
> 2012 at 4:42 PM in Current Affairs
>
> This is not my opinion. This is a fact from Barack Obama. From 1991

> thru most of 2007, he told the public that he was ï¿½born in Kenya.ï¿½ His

> PR flacks want you to believe that they made a simple mistake, like me

> typing ï¿½Hawaiiï¿½ when I meant to type ï¿½Kenya.ï¿½ But that is complete,

> utter bullshit. When I learned I made a mistake I corrected it
> immediately. Barack Obama deliberately and purposefully promoted the

> myth that he was born in Kenya. We donï¿½t have a single instance of him

> prior to 2007 insisting that he was born in Hawaii rather than Kenya.
> NOT ONE TIME!!

Until 2007, it wasn't an issue. Now for the big one. Produce
his Kenyan Birth Certificate. No one has been able to do to date.

>
> The ï¿½whyï¿½ is quite simpleï¿½he wanted to persuade the lefties in Chicago

> politics that they had a genuine, black African ready to run for

> office. You canï¿½t get more authentic than that. Itï¿½s like a white

> person trying to convince others that she is a Cheerokee Injun.

> Frankly, Iï¿½m stunned that most of this did not come out in 2008. It is

> outrageous. Barack Obama lied his half-white ass off. Black like him?
> Fuck him and his lies.
>

> As I noted in this morningï¿½s post, the lie started in earnest in 1991

> when he allowed his publicist to put out the claim:

You keep repeating the same thing from a Rep Superpac site. Hate
to break it to you, Superpacs can lie out the asses and usually do.

>
> Barack Obama, the first African-American president of the Harvard Law
> Review, was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii. The son
> of an American anthropologist and a Kenyan finance minister, he
> attended Columbia University and worked as a financial journalist and
> editor for Business International Corporation. He served as project
> coordinator in Harlem for the New York Public Interest Research Group,
> and was Executive Director of the Developing Communities Project in

> Chicagoï¿½s South Side. His commitment to social and racial issues will

> be evident in his first book, Journeys in Black and White.
>
> Do you really understand how stunning this is?
> If you have ever appeared as a pundit on television, written an op-ed
> for the New York Times or written a book (or thought about writing a
> book), you are keenly interested in what people saying and writing

> about you. When someone like Acton& Dystel put out a book with your

> bio prominently displayed you can bet your half-white ass that you get
> copies of that book and spread it around to family and friends.
>
> Barack Obama and his team think you are a fucking moron. They think

> they can tell you, ï¿½OOPS, it was a simple editorial error.ï¿½ Well, that

> steaming turd might float in a bowl of sand, but not here. That
> mistake was not a one time thing. It was not a one week or one month
> event. It lasted 16 years.
>
> In 1998, seven years later (and with an updated blurb no less) Obama

> was still ï¿½born in Kenya.ï¿½

>
> Once again, you are asked to believe that a professional publicist
> does not verify facts with his or her client. Really? They are that

> incompetent? Donï¿½t buy that crap sandwich for a second.

May 25, 2012, 11:29:37 PM5/25/12

to

Especially since the Senate resolution has no force. "Natural born" is
a Constitutional requirement, and nobody quite knows what it means. The
Supreme Court would have to tell us.

>
> McCain was born outside the country with two US Citizens as parents.
> He's not automatically a citizen until he turns 18 and has to make a
> choice which country to ally with. He chose the US and that's the way it
> is. He's a US Citizen.

The tenses in that paragraph are as confused as you are. McCain was
born in the Panama Canal Zone, not sovereign US territory. (You can
tell because we gave it back.) At the time he was born, the law
inadvertently failed to make him a citizen at birth. The law was
amended several years after his birth, and it retroactively made him a
citizen from birth. There's no doubt he is a US citizen, but nothing
happened when he turned 18: he was already a citizen. The question is
whether he's a *natural* *born* citizen. There are two fairly stringent
definitions. One is born on sovereign US territory and thus granted
citizenship via the 14th Amendment. Another is holding citizenship at
birth, which would include children naturalized at birth by statute.
McCain fits neither of these. Are either the correct definition? We
don't know. SCOTUS would have to say.

>
> Military Families face this all the time. Most countries will honor that
> choice when the proper paperwork is filed. France does not. If a child
> is born to a US Citizen Couple in France, before the child turns 18, you
> get him or her OUT of France because France will draft them as a French
> Citizen.
>
> I see your information you typed but I don't see anything to back them
> up except for Sites with no cites to that information.
>
> Besides, NEVER has a Potential President EVER been born overseas. There
> has been a question of Dual Citizenship but what congress did was wipe
> that stupid notion away. Other countries can have "Dual" Citizens but
> the US doesn't recognize it. You are either a US citizen or you are a
> Citizen of another country, period.

You have this exactly backwards. The US cares not a whit about dual
citizenship. You can't take certain actions as a dual citizen, e.g.,
declaring sole allegiance to another country, serve in its armed forces,
or take foreign office, but if another country's laws grant citizenship
to someone who is a US citizen, that's fine by the US.

> Obama has satisfied the law about his birth place. But even if he really
> was born in Kenya, his Mother was a US Citizen. At 18, he would have had
> to make the same choice as McCain did. It's no different. The fact that
> his Father was Kenyan only means that he could have made a choice to be
> Kenyan instead even if he were born in hawaii. The Military faced that
> on a daily basis with the Military Families all over the Globe.

You seem so sure for someone who is so wrong. At the time Obama was
born, a child of a US citizen and a non-US citizen became a citizen at
birth only if the US-citizen parent had lived a certain number of years
in the US past that parent's fourteenth birthday. Obama's mother was
only 18 when he was born, and she didn't have the residency years.
That's why the birther nutters are so insistent that Obama was born in
Kenya. If that were true, he wouldn't be a citizen at all.

>
> In order to run for President, Obama had to produce a legal document
> that was issued at the time of his birth from the Hospital.

Really? Where in the Constitution does it say that?

> He, first, issued the one that his Parents received.

No, it was a certified copy. It's the way states have done that in the
aftermath of 9/11.

> When that didn't go over well,
> he produced the long form filed with the Hospital in Hawaii. That should
> have ended it much like McCain producing his birth certificate from
> Panama to 2 US Citizens and his paperwork where he made the choice to
> become a US Citizen at age 18.

What nonsense. McCain didn't become a citizen when he was 18. I think
he was six, anyway a small child, when the law was changed.

> Obama didn't need to do that paperwork
> since he was born in Hawaii and it defaulted to the US at age 0+1
> second. But he could have made the choice at 18 to become a Kenyan
> Citizen. No, he let it default at 18.

Really? When he was born, Kenya was a British protectorate; when he was
18, Kenya was an independent country. Are you sure?

> This whole thing is stupid. Vote for him or don't vote for him. But in
> the end, he will or will not be president due to the Voters and the
> Electoral College which isn't buying any of this about Obama or McCain.

The issue is a serious one. It illustrates the length that birther
nutters will go to define Obama as alien and unamerican. But the
Electoral College will have nothing to do with it. Certification of
electors is a power that belongs to Congress.

deadrat

unread,

May 25, 2012, 11:39:22 PM5/25/12

to

On 5/25/12 7:42 PM, Daryl wrote:
> On 5/25/2012 6:34 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> In article<CZmdnX_hGukTJSLS...@earthlink.com>,
>> "meport"<jjm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> How about we do this. I'll start supporting the premise that Obama
>>> should
>>> release his birth certificate and all the supporting documentation
>>> that goes
>>> with it AFTER Bush releases all the documentation that he has that will
>>> prove that he didn't desert from the Texas Air National Guard.
>>
>> Bush is a private citizen, not running for any office.
>>
>> Obama is not.
>
> Bush was clearly a US Citizen. Being in the Military or not does not
> disqualify or qualify a person to be President.
>
> Obama had the choice at 18 to declare his citizenship as Kenyan due to
> having a Kenyan Citizen for a Father.

What nonsense. Kenya wasn't even an independent country when Obama was
born.

> But since his mother is a US
> Citizen and he was born in Hawaii he defaulted at 18 to a US Citizen.

What nonsense. Obama became a citizen at his birth in Hawaii. His
mother's citizenship was irrelevant.

> McCain was born in Panama to 2 US Citizen Parents. At 18 he had to file
> his intention and announce which country he would ally with. He chose
> the US for some pretty danged good reasons.

What nonsense. The law was changed to grant US citizenship
retroactively at birth to McCain and other Zonian children of US-citizens.

> If Obama isn't a Citizen, either naturalized or born (that's the laws)
> neither is McCain.

Obama's citizenship doesn't affect McCain's. Obama is a natural born
citizen by any definition since he was born in a state. McCain's
natural born status is unknown.

> Since both resided in the US for 14 years as
> Naturalized/Born Citizens, both are eligible to be a US President. And
> that is the ONLY requirement.

Wrong again. The third requirement is to be 35 years or older, the
fourth is not to have served two Presidential terms previously, and the
fifth is not to be barred from holding office via conviction of impeachment.

McCain's status as natural-born is unknown for the reasons I've given.

Daryl

unread,

May 25, 2012, 11:49:41 PM5/25/12

to

On 5/25/2012 9:21 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article<jppbub$c8d$2...@dont-email.me>,

And that is an insult as insulting others by where they may or
may not be born? Shish, You have to do better than that. Keep
it up and you will guarantee 4 more years of Obama.

Daryl

unread,

May 26, 2012, 12:01:52 AM5/26/12

to

Both met the legal criteria to be President. Either one would
have been legal. I don't know why you and others are still
harping on this. I will type slow.

Any citizen that has been a citizen through birth or
naturalization that has spent at least 14 years living as a
citizen while living in the United States is eligible to be
President.

That's the whole thing in a nutshell. There is no mention of
having to be born in the US or having both parents as US Citizens
or even having even one parent as a citizen.

All Congress did was take away the stigma that might have been
found on McCain. And it was a non binding resolution, not a law.
They clarified the law for those that kept and keep this
nonsense going.

Keep this up and you are guaranteeing 4 more years of Obama. I
am sure that he's done enough while in office to bring up and
harp on. But, no, this Birth Thing keeps coming up. Well, both
Candidates had it brought up. The Left brought it up and
Congress squelched it pretty good for McCain. There was no
reason to do any such things for Obama since he was born in the
USA and did provide the original document from the Hawaii
Hospital. It seems to me that McCain was given preferential
treatment by the Congress on this. I find that even that was
unnecessary with what I know of the Citizen problems of the US
Military Overseas Families.

Now, pick something else. Obama has given enough for you to go
after him without inventing things.

This is so childish it pretty well means the Independents see it
a such and any real truth you come up with will be largely
discounted as more nonsense guaranteeing 4 more years of Obama.

W/Q

unread,

May 26, 2012, 12:10:45 AM5/26/12

to

> >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/01/AR200...

>
> > The irony here, of course, is that if both men were actually not
> > citizens, but no one knew it or would want to admit it, then
> > regardless of which one became president in 2008, either one would
> > still have been "illegitimate".
>
> Both met the legal criteria to be President. Either one would
> have been legal. I don't know why you and others are still
> harping on this. I will type slow.

I'll. Type. Slower. I. Have. No. Issue. With. Obama. It's.
McCain. That. Was. The. Problem. If. It. Was. Clearly.
Understood. By. The. Senate. That. Obama. Was. "Legal". And.
Didn't. Need. A. Resolution. To. Legitimize. His. Legality.
Then. How. Come. They. Thought. McCain. Needed. A.
Resolution. If. It. Was. Also. "Understood". That. He. Was.
Legal?

Maybe. Because. He. Wasn't?

Not. That. It. Matters. At. This. Point. Because. The.
Right. Man. Got. Elected. Anyway.

> --http://tvmoviesforfree.com

Daryl

unread,

May 26, 2012, 12:21:44 AM5/26/12

to

Nope, it's pretty well clear. Natural Born means born in the
United States. Just the same as illegal immigrants come up to
the US and have babies. Those babies are natural born citizens
of the United States. Many countries do not consider it like
that. But the US does.

Obama is a Natural Born US Citizen who automatically is qualified
to be elected President because he was born in the US. (Some, in
Hawaii, may argue that Hawaii is not a state but those are Native
Hawaiians) McCain is a Naturalized Citizen who has spent at
least 14 concecutive years living in the US. He is also
qualified to be elected President.

If this is to continue and actually be based on fact, a legal
document from Kenya needs to be presented showing that Obama was
born in Kenya. Otherwise, his Birth Certificate from Hawaii
trumps all.

>>
>> McCain was born outside the country with two US Citizens as
>> parents.
>> He's not automatically a citizen until he turns 18 and has to
>> make a
>> choice which country to ally with. He chose the US and that's
>> the way it
>> is. He's a US Citizen.
>
> The tenses in that paragraph are as confused as you are. McCain
> was born in the Panama Canal Zone, not sovereign US territory.
> (You can tell because we gave it back.) At the time he was born,
> the law inadvertently failed to make him a citizen at birth. The
> law was amended several years after his birth, and it
> retroactively made him a citizen from birth. There's no doubt he
> is a US citizen, but nothing happened when he turned 18: he was
> already a citizen. The question is whether he's a *natural*
> *born* citizen. There are two fairly stringent definitions. One
> is born on sovereign US territory and thus granted citizenship
> via the 14th Amendment. Another is holding citizenship at birth,
> which would include children naturalized at birth by statute.
> McCain fits neither of these. Are either the correct definition?
> We don't know. SCOTUS would have to say.

Since I am retired Military who have seen this time and time
again, the one confused here is you. To give you an idea, a
Military Child born in France (who has a dual citizen law) will
try and draft the Male Offspring at the age of 18 into the French
Military. The US Military will put a 17 year old, nearing 18
years old, on the next available flight out of France back to the
US and that offspring can never return to France without being
drafted or prosecuted for avoiding their draft.

They can grant all they want but it's the US Citizens choice to
take it or not. The US has NO dual citizenship. You either are
or you are not. If you choose the other country you give up all
rights as a US Citizen including the right to live here. Can you
spell, "Deported"?

>
>> Obama has satisfied the law about his birth place. But even if
>> he really
>> was born in Kenya, his Mother was a US Citizen. At 18, he would
>> have had
>> to make the same choice as McCain did. It's no different. The
>> fact that
>> his Father was Kenyan only means that he could have made a
>> choice to be
>> Kenyan instead even if he were born in hawaii. The Military
>> faced that
>> on a daily basis with the Military Families all over the Globe.
>
> You seem so sure for someone who is so wrong. At the time Obama
> was born, a child of a US citizen and a non-US citizen became a
> citizen at birth only if the US-citizen parent had lived a
> certain number of years in the US past that parent's fourteenth
> birthday. Obama's mother was only 18 when he was born, and she
> didn't have the residency years. That's why the birther nutters
> are so insistent that Obama was born in Kenya. If that were true,
> he wouldn't be a citizen at all.

His mother was a Natural Born citizen. Or, was born in the US.
It doesn't matter about 14 years. That only applies to
Naturalized Citizens. No confusion on my part. Been there, done
that.

>>
>> In order to run for President, Obama had to produce a legal
>> document
>> that was issued at the time of his birth from the Hospital.
>
> Really? Where in the Constitution does it say that?

The two Presidential Candidates had to, both, produce documents
to that affect. Otherwise, it can't be verified that they are US
citizens. And since it is a law that they must be US Citizens,
they will have to produce the appropriate documents. Both men
satisfied that legal requirement of showing they were both US
Citizens.

>
>> He, first, issued the one that his Parents received.
>
> No, it was a certified copy. It's the way states have done that
> in the aftermath of 9/11.

If I want a copy of mine, I go to the Hospital where I was born
and request a Certified Copy. It's been that way long before 911.
Even so, since the first one presented by Obama was a copy of
the one his parents received at his birth which may or may not be
legit, in 2007, he contacts the Hospital in Hawaii and gets a
certified copy of the complete long form Birth Certificate. He
observed the law.

>
>> When that didn't go over well,
>> he produced the long form filed with the Hospital in Hawaii.
>> That should
>> have ended it much like McCain producing his birth certificate
>> from
>> Panama to 2 US Citizens and his paperwork where he made the
>> choice to
>> become a US Citizen at age 18.
>
> What nonsense. McCain didn't become a citizen when he was 18. I
> think he was six, anyway a small child, when the law was changed.

Wrong. I he decided at age 18 to be Panamanian, it would have
been perfectly legal and he would have had to renounce his US
Citizenship.

Congress can pass all resolutions it wants, but only the Supreme Court
can interpret the Constitution.

<snip/>

> It seems to me that McCain was given preferential treatment by
> the Congress on this. I find that even that was unnecessary with what I
> know of the Citizen problems of the US Military Overseas Families.

McCain may have been given preferential treatment but not dispositive
treatment. It's not up to Congress. And you apparently don't know
squat about US naturalization laws.

<snip/>

Greegor

unread,

May 26, 2012, 2:04:37 AM5/26/12

to

Tom > His publisher has gone on the
Tom > record saying it was a mistake... her mistake...

A mistake that stood for SIXTEEN years and
through FOUR revisions of the text?

That "mistake" story doesn't pass the sniff test.

deadrat

unread,

May 26, 2012, 2:43:37 AM5/26/12

to

It's just not clear what it means to be born in the United States.
Everyone agrees that includes being born in a state or Washington, DC.
How about incorporated territories? We don't have any of those anymore;
Hawaii was the last one, but it was an issue in 1964 because Goldwater
was born in the Arizona Territory. How about unincorporated
territories? Are Puerto Ricans eligible to be President? They're all
citizens by statute, but are they natural-born citizens? How about
ships in US territorial waters or planes in US airspace? How about
US-flagged ships in international waters or US-flagged aircraft in
international airspace?

How about people born outside US territory but who become naturalized
citizens at birth?

> Obama is a Natural Born US Citizen who automatically is qualified to be
> elected President because he was born in the US. (Some, in Hawaii, may
> argue that Hawaii is not a state but those are Native Hawaiians) McCain
> is a Naturalized Citizen who has spent at least 14 concecutive years
> living in the US. He is also qualified to be elected President.

The Constitution says that McCain had to be natural born. That's in
addition to his 14 consecutive year residency. No one knows whether
McCain is qualified, and only SCOTUS can tell us.

> If this is to continue and actually be based on fact, a legal document
> from Kenya needs to be presented showing that Obama was born in Kenya.
> Otherwise, his Birth Certificate from Hawaii trumps all.

I hope you don't think I disagree with this.

You may be retired military, but you're still an ignoramus. US
naturalization laws are quite complex, not least because they've changed
many times over the years. US citizenship for children born abroad is a
complex function of the place of birth, the date of birth, and the
citizenship, nationality, residency, and military service of the
parents. Note especially date of birth. The rules that govern today
are different from the rules that governed when McCain was born.

You. Have. This. Exactly. Backwards.

Go here:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

<quote>
U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose
one citizenship or another.
</quote>

Does it get any clearer than that? It's almost impossible to lose US
citizenship unless you intend to give it up, and that includes acquiring
dual citizenship. (An exception is obtaining naturalization through fraud.)

>>> Obama has satisfied the law about his birth place. But even if
>>> he really
>>> was born in Kenya, his Mother was a US Citizen. At 18, he would
>>> have had
>>> to make the same choice as McCain did. It's no different. The
>>> fact that
>>> his Father was Kenyan only means that he could have made a
>>> choice to be
>>> Kenyan instead even if he were born in hawaii. The Military
>>> faced that
>>> on a daily basis with the Military Families all over the Globe.
>>
>> You seem so sure for someone who is so wrong. At the time Obama
>> was born, a child of a US citizen and a non-US citizen became a
>> citizen at birth only if the US-citizen parent had lived a
>> certain number of years in the US past that parent's fourteenth
>> birthday. Obama's mother was only 18 when he was born, and she
>> didn't have the residency years. That's why the birther nutters
>> are so insistent that Obama was born in Kenya. If that were true,
>> he wouldn't be a citizen at all.
>
> His mother was a Natural Born citizen. Or, was born in the US. It
> doesn't matter about 14 years. That only applies to Naturalized
> Citizens. No confusion on my part. Been there, done that.

Try reading for comprehension. At the time Obama was born, a child born
outside the US to a citizen parent and a non-citizen parent didn't
become a US citizen unless the citizen parent had lived a certain number
of years in the US after that parent reached the age of 14.

It's not about the 14-year residency requirement in the Constitution to
hold the office of President. Obama's mother was 18 when he was born.
That meant she'd lived in the US for only 4 years after she had turned
14. 18 - 14 = 4. That wasn't long enough to make her son a citizen
*if* he had been born out of the country.

Get it yet? That's why the birther nutters insist that Obama was born
in Kenya. If that were true, Obama wouldn't be a US citizen at all.

What's so hard about this?

>>>
>>> In order to run for President, Obama had to produce a legal
>>> document
>>> that was issued at the time of his birth from the Hospital.
>>
>> Really? Where in the Constitution does it say that?
>
> The two Presidential Candidates had to, both, produce documents to that
> affect.

Please tell where in the Constitution this requirement is imposed to
hold the office of President.

> Otherwise, it can't be verified that they are US citizens.

That may be so. Please tell me where in the Constitution this
requirement is imposed.

> And
> since it is a law that they must be US Citizens, they will have to
> produce the appropriate documents.

You keep saying this, but it isn't true. The Constitution is silent on
the requirement to document citizenship.

> Both men satisfied that legal
> requirement of showing they were both US Citizens.

The requirement isn't to be a citizen. It's to be a "natural born"
citizen. Obama produced a birth certificate that shows he was born in
Hawaii. Everyone agrees that being born in a state qualifies for
natural born citizenship. McCain was born abroad. It's not clear
whether he qualifies or not.

>>> He, first, issued the one that his Parents received.
>>
>> No, it was a certified copy. It's the way states have done that
>> in the aftermath of 9/11.
>
> If I want a copy of mine, I go to the Hospital where I was born and
> request a Certified Copy.

This is very unlikely. Hospitals generally do not keep birth
certificates. Those are filed with your state's bureau of vital statistics.

> It's been that way long before 911.

I'd be so bold as to say it's never been that way, mostly because for
most of our history, babies weren't born in hospitals. The states keep
track of birth records, not hospitals.

> Even so,
> since the first one presented by Obama was a copy of the one his parents
> received at his birth which may or may not be legit, in 2007, he
> contacts the Hospital in Hawaii and gets a certified copy of the
> complete long form Birth Certificate. He observed the law.

You're wrong. The certified copies you get these days have been
standardized as part of the 9/11 hysteria. The forms have changed since
Obama was born. When Linda Lingle was governor of Hawaii, she checked
on Obama's birth records. She didn't go to the hospital where he was
born. She went to the vital records bureau maintained by the Hawaii
Department of Health.

Google the words "lingle obama birth certificate."

>>> When that didn't go over well,
>>> he produced the long form filed with the Hospital in Hawaii.
>>> That should
>>> have ended it much like McCain producing his birth certificate
>>> from
>>> Panama to 2 US Citizens and his paperwork where he made the
>>> choice to
>>> become a US Citizen at age 18.
>>
>> What nonsense. McCain didn't become a citizen when he was 18. I
>> think he was six, anyway a small child, when the law was changed.
>
> Wrong. I he decided at age 18 to be Panamanian, it would have been
> perfectly legal and he would have had to renounce his US Citizenship.

Per Panamanian law, this is true, but irrelevant. McCain was
naturalized by US statute retroactively a few years after he was born.

>>> Obama didn't need to do that paperwork
>>> since he was born in Hawaii and it defaulted to the US at age 0+1
>>> second. But he could have made the choice at 18 to become a Kenyan
>>> Citizen. No, he let it default at 18.
>>
>> Really? When he was born, Kenya was a British protectorate; when
>> he was 18, Kenya was an independent country. Are you sure?
>
> So what. Provide us with either a British Birth Certificate or a Kenyan
> Birth certificate. One that can be proven as legitimate. At that point,
> you have a viable argument.

Do you even read what I write? I know that Obama is a natural-born US
citizen. You claim that he could have had Kenyan citizenship because
his father was Kenyan, and that's true. Under Kenyan law, he held dual
citizenship until he was 21, and if he had wanted to keep his Kenyan
citizenship, then he had until he was 23 to renounce his US citizenship.

>>> This whole thing is stupid. Vote for him or don't vote for him.
>>> But in
>>> the end, he will or will not be president due to the Voters and
>>> the
>>> Electoral College which isn't buying any of this about Obama or
>>> McCain.
>>
>> The issue is a serious one. It illustrates the length that
>> birther nutters will go to define Obama as alien and unamerican.
>> But the Electoral College will have nothing to do with it.
>> Certification of electors is a power that belongs to Congress.
>
> Since both were found to be Citizens, this whole thing is moot. Now if
> someone will provide either a British or Kenyan Birth Certificate then
> it might have some foundation.

The whole thing is moot because Obama was born in Hawaii, and McCain
lost. The issue is not about citizenship. Both men are citizens. Only
one of them for sure is a natural-born citizen.

For someone who claims to be retired military, and thus once took an
oath to defend the Constitution, you seem to be shockingly uninformed
about the document.

deadrat

unread,

May 26, 2012, 2:46:39 AM5/26/12

to

On 5/25/12 11:24 PM, Daryl wrote:
> On 5/25/2012 10:10 PM, W/Q wrote:
>> On May 26, 12:01 am, Daryl<dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/25/2012 7:50 PM, W/Q wrote:

<snip/>

>>> Both met the legal criteria to be President. Either one would
>>> have been legal. I don't know why you and others are still
>>> harping on this. I will type slow.
>>
>> I'll. Type. Slower. I. Have. No. Issue. With. Obama. It's.
>> McCain. That. Was. The. Problem. If. It. Was. Clearly.
>> Understood. By. The. Senate. That. Obama. Was. "Legal". And.
>> Didn't. Need. A. Resolution. To. Legitimize. His. Legality.
>> Then. How. Come. They. Thought. McCain. Needed. A.
>> Resolution. If. It. Was. Also. "Understood". That. He. Was.
>> Legal?
>>
>> Maybe. Because. He. Wasn't?
>
> He met the criteria of a Naturalized Citizen. Therefore, he was.

It's unclear that McCain met the criteria since he was born abroad. The
question you've been asked is this: if it's so clear that McCain was
natural born, why did the Senate have to pass a (meaningless) resolution
to declare him natural born?

<snip/>

deadrat

unread,

May 26, 2012, 3:14:04 AM5/26/12

to

I'd think you'd have trouble seeing past your own ignorance. How does
my discussion of McCain's citizenship indicate that I "support Obama"?

> I don't but I am just informing you of the law.

Misinforming, actually.

> Not the cocimany crap I see in there concerning both
> Candidates. They were and are both US Citizens

True.

> and have met the criteria
> of US Citizenship requirement to serve as the US President.

One requirement is to be "natural born." It's in the Constitution. You
could look it up. Obama qualifies since he was born in Hawaii, and
everybody agrees that if "natural born" means anything, it means at the
very least being born in a state. McCain was not born in sovereign US
territory at all. He was born in the Panama Canal Zone when the law
governing the citizenship of children born abroad did not cover him.
The law was changed when he was a small child and it retroactively made

him a citizen from birth.

Does that make McCain "natural born." I don't know; nobody does. The
Supreme Court has to rule on the issue before we know. They haven't.
It's not even clear such a case could reach them.

>>> But since his mother is a US
>>> Citizen and he was born in Hawaii he defaulted at 18 to a US
>>> Citizen.
>>
>> What nonsense. Obama became a citizen at his birth in Hawaii. His
>> mother's citizenship was irrelevant.
>>
>>> McCain was born in Panama to 2 US Citizen Parents. At 18 he had
>>> to file
>>> his intention and announce which country he would ally with. He
>>> chose
>>> the US for some pretty danged good reasons.
>>
>> What nonsense. The law was changed to grant US citizenship
>> retroactively at birth to McCain and other Zonian children of
>> US-citizens.
>
> Then you admit that there was a time he wasn't a US Citizen then.

This isn't a matter of my admission. The following is a fact: when
McCain was born, he was not a naturalized citizen.

> But under the Naturalization Laws, he became one.

Some time after his birth. I think he was six. Did his birth in the
Panama Canal Zone qualify him as natural born? I don't know. No one
really does. Congress thought otherwise because they passed a law to
naturalize him. Perhaps that was superfluous; perhaps not.

>>> If Obama isn't a Citizen, either naturalized or born (that's
>>> the laws)
>>> neither is McCain.
>>
>> Obama's citizenship doesn't affect McCain's. Obama is a natural
>> born citizen by any definition since he was born in a state.
>> McCain's natural born status is unknown.
>
> Wow, a left wing Birther. Never met anyone like you. It's refreshing I
> must say and just as ridiculous.

You have little idea of my politics, but in today's parlance, a birther
is someone who doubts that Obama is a natural born citizen. I don't.
He was born in Hawaii; that makes him a natural born citizen. McCain
was not born in the US. He was born abroad. Is he a natural born
citizen? I don't know; no one does until the Supreme Court rules on the
issue.

Why is this ridiculous? In particular why is this any more ridiculous
than your abyssal ignorance?

>>> Since both resided in the US for 14 years as
>>> Naturalized/Born Citizens, both are eligible to be a US
>>> President. And
>>> that is the ONLY requirement.
>>
>> Wrong again. The third requirement is to be 35 years or older,
>> the fourth is not to have served two Presidential terms
>> previously, and the fifth is not to be barred from holding office
>> via conviction of impeachment.
>>
>> McCain's status as natural-born is unknown for the reasons I've
>> given.
>
> Sorry to break your bubble but US Parents give birth to children all
> over the world and any and all of them will meet the requirements as a
> Naturalized Citizen which complies with the law to qualify to serve as
> the President of the United States. How do I know this?

How do you know this? Because you're an ignoramus who "knows" things
that aren't so? Congress cannot pass any laws on its own to make people
natural born citizens. "Natural born" is a Constitutional term, and
it's meaning must be defined by the Supreme Court in any dispute over
someone's status. It could be that the Supreme Court would accept
anyone naturalized at birth as "natural born." But they haven't yet,
and it's not even clear they would have jurisdiction to hear a dispute
that would settle the issue. In any case, McCain was not naturalized at
birth but six years after he was born. Does that disqualify him as
natural born? I don't know. Nobody does for sure.

> 20 years of US Military Service with over half of it served overseas.

Which may have qualified you for many things, but understanding a
reasoned argument about the law apparently isn't one of them.

> Overseas is
> outside the US Borders. This was a well known phenomena that was faced
> by every Young US Couple where one or both were serving in the US
> Military and stationed overseas when their child was born.

So what? We're not talking about citizenship, but the Constitutional
concept of natural-born citizenship. Is the light dawning yet?

> Unknown is something not known. In both Obamas and McCains case the
> variables are a known thing. If it were math, 2+2 always equals 4 and
> never 5.

The facts are not in dispute. The citizenship of both men is not in
dispute. The only question is whether McCain, having been born "outside
US borders," is a natural born citizen under the meaning of the
Constitution, Article II, Section 1.

I'm typing as slowly as I can so you can follow this. I don't know how
to explain it any better. Perhaps you can tell me what's not clear to you.

Daryl

unread,

May 26, 2012, 5:10:27 AM5/26/12

to

To keep the Birther Leftwing nutjobs quiet. Guess it didn't work.
BTW, they required Obama to show his Hawaii Certified Birth
Certificate as well. So how about stop with this stupidity it
just hurts your "hero" in the long run.

Daryl

unread,

May 26, 2012, 5:26:20 AM5/26/12

to

Nope, I see you are relying on Wiki once again. I suggest you do
a perview of
http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2009_fall/white_oped.htm

Although the Constitution does not go on to define a “natural
born Citizen,” the term is understood to mean a person born in
the United States or born abroad to parents who are both American
citizens. In Obama’s case, his father was not an American
citizen. If he had been born abroad he would have been ineligible
for the presidency.

>>
>> That's the whole thing in a nutshell. There is no mention of
>> having to
>> be born in the US or having both parents as US Citizens or even
>> having
>> even one parent as a citizen.
>
> That's true. It just says "natural born." Everyone assumes this
> means anyone born in sovereign US territory, but beyond that no
> one can be sure.

Let me post the quote once again. The URL has already been posted.

Although the Constitution does not go on to define a “natural
born Citizen,” the term is understood to mean a person born in
the United States or born abroad to parents who are both American
citizens. In Obama’s case, his father was not an American
citizen. If he had been born abroad he would have been ineligible
for the presidency.

>>
>> All Congress did was take away the stigma that might have been
>> found on
>> McCain. And it was a non binding resolution, not a law. They
>> clarified
>> the law for those that kept and keep this nonsense going.
>
> Congress can pass all resolutions it wants, but only the Supreme
> Court can interpret the Constitution.

Actually, they did nothing but try and get reelected. It's
already covered. Here is another exert from the same cite.

Thus “presidential Americans” were not adults who had just
established residency in the United States when the Constitution
was framed and ratified. They were also not children born abroad
of foreign parents. The framers did not want any latecomers to
the United States running for president, and, given America’s
recent hostilities with Great Britain, they were especially
concerned about latecomers from that nation. Presidential
Americans needed to show that they had fully separated themselves
from the Crown, Parliament and the Empire. Foreign birth, to even
one foreign parent, cast doubt on one’s ability to make that
separation.

>
> <snip/>
>
>> It seems to me that McCain was given preferential treatment by
>> the Congress on this. I find that even that was unnecessary
>> with what I
>> know of the Citizen problems of the US Military Overseas Families.
>
> McCain may have been given preferential treatment but not
> dispositive treatment. It's not up to Congress. And you
> apparently don't know squat about US naturalization laws.

I already covered this. A Leftwing Birther. Whodda thunk.

Daryl

unread,

May 26, 2012, 5:28:12 AM5/26/12

to

On 5/26/2012 12:43 AM, deadrat wrote:

So you now result to insults. You lose. I may not win but YOU
lose. I already covered this pretty well and Both McCain and
Obama ARE US Citizens. They just qualified slightly differently.

Daryl

unread,

May 26, 2012, 5:29:25 AM5/26/12

to

Then why are you still continuing with it if you think its
cocimany as well?

My last URL covered it pretty well.

deadrat

unread,

May 26, 2012, 5:31:51 AM5/26/12

to

There is none. What are you talking about?

> Guess it didn't work. BTW,
> they required Obama to show his Hawaii Certified Birth Certificate as
> well.

Who "required" this?

> So how about stop with this stupidity it just hurts your "hero" in
> the long run.

Have you figured out yet that I think Obama was born in Hawaii?

deadrat

unread,

May 26, 2012, 5:48:52 AM5/26/12

to

Don't kid a kidder. You can't see past your own ignorance.

> I suggest you do a
> perview of http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2009_fall/white_oped.htm

> Although the Constitution does not go on to define a “natural born
> Citizen,” the term is understood to mean a person born in the United
> States or born abroad to parents who are both American citizens. In
> Obama’s case, his father was not an American citizen. If he had been
> born abroad he would have been ineligible for the presidency.

Yeah, I love the passive voice: "the term is understood." What that
means is that Professor White understands the term that way. And don't
get me wrong, it's a reasonable interpretation. It's just that UVa law
professors don't get to define Constitutional terms. If a person "born
abroad to parents who are both American citizens" is automatically a
natural-born citizen, then there would be no need for naturalization
statutes to make them citizens. But Congress passed them anyway. I
guess not everyone understands things the way the good professor does.

>>>
>>> That's the whole thing in a nutshell. There is no mention of
>>> having to
>>> be born in the US or having both parents as US Citizens or even
>>> having
>>> even one parent as a citizen.
>>
>> That's true. It just says "natural born." Everyone assumes this
>> means anyone born in sovereign US territory, but beyond that no
>> one can be sure.
>
> Let me post the quote once again. The URL has already been posted.
>
> Although the Constitution does not go on to define a “natural born
> Citizen,” the term is understood to mean a person born in the United
> States or born abroad to parents who are both American citizens. In
> Obama’s case, his father was not an American citizen. If he had been
> born abroad he would have been ineligible for the presidency.

I'll type reeeeeeal slowly so you can follow this. You've found a law
professor who thinks he knows what "natural born" means. He might even
be right, but it's not his opinion that's dispositive.

Your statement is right about Obama. If he had been born abroad, he
wouldn't have been a citizen at all, let alone a natural-born citizen.

>>> All Congress did was take away the stigma that might have been
>>> found on
>>> McCain. And it was a non binding resolution, not a law. They
>>> clarified
>>> the law for those that kept and keep this nonsense going.
>>
>> Congress can pass all resolutions it wants, but only the Supreme
>> Court can interpret the Constitution.
>
> Actually, they did nothing but try and get reelected. It's already
> covered. Here is another exert from the same cite.
>
> Thus “presidential Americans” were not adults who had just established
> residency in the United States when the Constitution was framed and
> ratified. They were also not children born abroad of foreign parents.
> The framers did not want any latecomers to the United States running for
> president, and, given America’s recent hostilities with Great Britain,
> they were especially concerned about latecomers from that nation.
> Presidential Americans needed to show that they had fully separated
> themselves from the Crown, Parliament and the Empire. Foreign birth, to
> even one foreign parent, cast doubt on one’s ability to make that
> separation.

Thanks for the copyright violation. It's not relevant, but thanks anyway.

>> <snip/>
>>
>>> It seems to me that McCain was given preferential treatment by
>>> the Congress on this. I find that even that was unnecessary
>>> with what I
>>> know of the Citizen problems of the US Military Overseas Families.
>>
>> McCain may have been given preferential treatment but not
>> dispositive treatment. It's not up to Congress. And you
>> apparently don't know squat about US naturalization laws.
>
> I already covered this.

If you mean you've already shown your ignorance, you bet.

> A Leftwing Birther.

Let me try to make it clear to you again. I don't know whether McCain's
birth precludes his being a natural-born citizen. No matter what some
law professor thinks, the term is undefined in the Constitution.

> Whodda thunk.

Not your strong suit. Mindreading appears to be, though.

deadrat

unread,

May 26, 2012, 6:03:56 AM5/26/12

to

On 5/26/12 4:28 AM, Daryl wrote:
> On 5/26/2012 12:43 AM, deadrat wrote:
>
>
> So you now result to insults.

Oh, I'm sorry. Did I hurt your feelings? What did I say?

Oops! Looks like you snipped the context. Imagine my surprise. I
think I've restricted myself to calling you an ignoramus. If that
insults you, fix it by learning something. I'm not calling you stupid,
which is incurable, but just ignorant, which is.

> You lose. I may not win but YOU lose.

Oh, dear. A little victory dance for yourself. How charming.

> I
> already covered this pretty well and Both McCain and Obama ARE US
> Citizens.

Try as I might, I can't seem to get you to understand that I agree with
this statement. Both McCain and Obama are US citizens.

> They just qualified slightly differently.

Depending on your definition of "slightly," I agree with this statement
as well. Obama obtained his citizenship via the 14th Amendment since he
was born in the US, namely the state of Hawaii. McCain obtained his
citizenship via the statute that (eventually) covered those Zonians born
to parents who were US citizens

I'll give you a few second to try to absorb that.

....

OK, have you figured out that we're in violent agreement on your two
statements? Good.

Now let's move on to the Constitutional term "natural born." The
Constitution doesn't define it, but everyone's sure that people born on
sovereign US territory (like Obama) qualify and that people born abroad
to non-US citizens even if they're naturalized (like Schwarzenegger) don't

But what about people born abroad to parents who are citizens (like
McCain)? Nobody knows for sure, not even Professor White.

deadrat

unread,

May 26, 2012, 6:08:42 AM5/26/12

to

The question isn't citizenship; it's natural-born citizenship. What's
so hard about understanding the distinction?

And it's "cockamamie."

> My last URL covered it pretty well.

Did your last url have a decision from five Justices? No.

Too bad. Hope that doesn't interfere with your little victory jig.

trotsky

unread,

May 26, 2012, 7:16:44 AM5/26/12

to

On 5/25/12 10:21 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article<jppbub$c8d$2...@dont-email.me>,

At least you're not denying being a troll, so that's progress.

unread,

May 26, 2012, 11:26:21 AM5/26/12

to

In article <Wq6dnRTCyvSYOl3S...@giganews.com>,

deadrat <a...@b.com> wrote:

> On 5/26/12 4:26 AM, Daryl wrote:

> > Thus łpresidential Americans˛ were not adults who had just established

> > residency in the United States when the Constitution was framed and
> > ratified. They were also not children born abroad of foreign parents.
> > The framers did not want any latecomers to the United States running for

> > president, and, given Americaąs recent hostilities with Great Britain,

> > they were especially concerned about latecomers from that nation.
> > Presidential Americans needed to show that they had fully separated
> > themselves from the Crown, Parliament and the Empire. Foreign birth, to

> > even one foreign parent, cast doubt on oneąs ability to make that

> > separation.
>
> Thanks for the copyright violation. It's not relevant, but thanks anyway.

Actually, that wouldn't be a violation. It's a small portion of a larger
work used for critical commentary, and as such, it would qualify for
fair use regardless of its copyright status.