Was Lucille Ball Really a Bitch?
Yolanda Sanchez
own mother said she was a bitch. Is this true?
Buttercup
>People have been telling me she was mean and screamed at people and that her
own mother said she was a bitch. Is this true?<<<<<<<<<
>
She was a pioneer of early television.
It was man's world. She needed to make
noise and be a bitch, I assume. She doesn't
seem like the casting couch type. ;-)
(`*·.¸(`*·.¸¸.·*´)¸.·*´)
«´¨ `Buttercup ´¨`»
(¸.·'´`(¸*·'´'·.*`)`'·. ¸)
How do you like them apples?
Are you happy now?
AKA
Nice try. Even the talk shows were reluctant to book her. She was a bitch
just because she was a bitch.
Tod
So how happy could she have been ?
"Yolanda Sanchez" <weird...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:hRCdd.8269$6q2....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Volfie
"Buttercup" <butterc...@aol.comeNoMore> wrote in message
news:20041020201356...@mb-m01.aol.com...
> >From: "Yolanda Sanchez" weird...@sbcglobal.net
>
> >People have been telling me she was mean and screamed at people and that
her
> own mother said she was a bitch. Is this true?<<<<<<<<<
> >
>
> She was a pioneer of early television.
> It was man's world. She needed to make
> noise and be a bitch, I assume. She doesn't
> seem like the casting couch type. ;-)
Honestly, I don't think I've ever heard she was a "bitch". What does that
mean, anyway? She spoke her mind back in the '50s when women weren't
supposed to do that? Oooooh.
Giselle (she was probably a pussycat by the Diva standards of today)
Howie0331
>just because she was a bitch.
>
Yes, indeed. She was unnecessarily bitchy to other guests. For instance, I
still remember one appearance on Dinah Shore's talk show in 1977, in which she
was the guest of honor. Valerie Harper had also been invited because she and
Ball had appeared together in the ill-fated Wildcat in 1960. Harper was
discussing the show in tryouts in Philadelphia when Ball snapped "Who the hell
cares?" Humiliating Harper when she was there to honor Ball, all in front of a
studio audience and for TV viewers, too.
"I'm going to learn to love the bitch"
Vivian Vance on Lucille Ball, 1951
Spam Tracer
>mean, anyway? She spoke her mind back in the '50s when women weren't
>supposed to do that?
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a women gives her opinion,
she's a bitch."
- Bette Davis
Howie0331
>mean, anyway? She spoke her mind back in the '50s when women weren't
>supposed to do that? Oooooh
She more than just spoke her mind...she was downright abusive and a bully to
others, unless they stood right up to her.
Makan amess
others, unless they stood right up to her.
was lucy a drunk or pill popper?
Howie0331
In one of her biographies, published in the early 1970's, she was described by
an acquaintance as a "two-fisted drinker." I haven't heard anything about
pills.
Tina
>>
>>> People have been telling me she was mean and screamed at people and
>>> that her
>> own mother said she was a bitch. Is this true?<<<<<<<<<
>>>
>>
>Buttercup wrote:
>> She was a pioneer of early television.
>> It was man's world. She needed to make
>> noise and be a bitch, I assume. She doesn't
>> seem like the casting couch type. ;-)
AKA wrote:
>Nice try. Even the talk shows were reluctant to book her. She was a bitch
>just because she was a bitch.
I heard the same thing about Lucille Ball too. I thought even Lucy Arnaz said
that her mother wasn't the fun lovin' person that she portrayed on tv but was
in reality a very difficult person to get along with. She said she bonded more
with her father than with her mother because he was more easygoing and loved
playing with kids....when he wasn't working. She wasn't bashing her mother but
was just honest about her upbringing. Lucy talked about this on that Biography
special they did on Desi and Lucy last year.
::::::Tina::::::
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I may disagree with what you say but I will defend, to the death, your right
to say it." - Voltaire
Grace Noble
"Howie0331" <howi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041020220008...@mb-m17.aol.com...
She didn't use pills. She drove others to do so.
Elayne444
>own mother said she was a bitch. Is this true?
For what it's worth, my grandfather worked in a job where he encountered her
more than a few times and he always said she was very gracious.
Kathy
She did bash her mother at one point and the backlash was swift and
brutal from all of Lucy's adoring fans. She toned it down after that,
and even produced a special about her parents using their home movies.
It was a sad story really, Lucy adored Desi and he couldn't stay faithful.
Kathy
John Savard
<weird...@sbcglobal.net> wrote, in part:
>People have been telling me she was mean and screamed at people and that her
>own mother said she was a bitch. Is this true?
I vaguely remember one of the tabloids claiming, just after her death,
that she was a Communist... for the FBI.
If there's any truth to _that_, there's no telling *what* some people
might say about her.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
Elaine Gallant
> own mother said she was a bitch. Is this true?
The short answer is yes. Most of the personal stories about her agree
she was bitchy. Lucy did not suffer fools. She put up with Desi's BS
for several years, but when she got fed up with him, he was out on his
ear.
Lucy liked to do paperwork, writing, etc. She liked to sit at her
desk, and would stay there all day. She did not like to be disturbed.
The sort of thing where if a man behaved that way, it does not raise
eyebrows...but a woman behaving the same way is not accepted.
Lon Chaney
Yolanda Sanchez wrote:
> People have been telling me she was mean and screamed at people and that her
> own mother said she was a bitch. Is this true?
"Don't know if this qualifies as 'bitchy' exactly but she did have it put in
Vivan Vance's contract that she had to remain twenty pounds overweight so that
her character would look frumpy next to Lucy."
"BS, you loser. Do some research before you go spreading old dirt:
http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/vance.htm ."
Don't mind me, just talking to myself.
TheCher118
her show. I don't recall the details.
Carol Shubert
"Buttercup" <butterc...@aol.comeNoMore> wrote in message
news:20041020201356...@mb-m01.aol.com...
:
: >People have been telling me she was mean and screamed
: >at people and that her own mother said she was a bitch. Is
: >this true?<<<<<<<<<
: >
:
: She was a pioneer of early television.
: It was man's world. She needed to make
: noise and be a bitch, I assume. She doesn't
: seem like the casting couch type. ;-)
:
: (`*·.¸(`*·.¸¸.·*´)¸.·*´)
: «´¨ `Buttercup ´¨`»
: (¸.·'´`(¸*·'´'·.*`)`'·. ¸)
I love Lucy and always have but I think she had an
attitude that was offputting to many people. I read
Vivian Vance's autobiography - she considered Ball
a very dear friend but had a lot to say about her
self centeredness. Vance was tough too and Lucy
must have respected that (eventually).
When fans would show up at Lucy's home, she
would have the lawn sprinklers turned on to chase
them off. Lucy Ricardo was a starstruck fan, but
Lucille Ball had little patience with that type - that's
understandable, though. Fans thought she was
very approachable in real life too, and would try to
take advantage of that, but she wasn't.
Lucy may not have been the casting couch type but
she wasn't all toughness and confidence. Apparently
she was drawn to tumultuous relationships with men.
Her fiance before Desi (the son of a gangster) was
physically abusive to her and she adored him, until
that Cuban guy swept her off her feet. I think she was
all girly girl behind the "bitch" exterior. =)
--
~ Carol ~
http://www.rainy-day-laughter.com : Upbeat parody/humor
ezine updated bimonthly [New edition October 15th]
SPECIAL HALLOWEEN EDITION! ~ =O
--
"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one:
'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it."
(Boy, did she ever.) (~Voltaire)
About my stalker: http://www.rainy-day-laughter.com/trollyintro
Carol Shubert
"John Savard" <jsa...@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid> wrote in message
news:417754e8...@news.ecn.ab.ca...
: On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:50:37 GMT, "Yolanda Sanchez"
She had registered as a member of the Communist Party
when she was very young, to please her grandfather who
was a devout Communist. She thought nothing more about
it until the hysterics of the 1950s brought her old Communist
connection into the public's eye.
Her FBI file:
http://www.fbi-files.com/celebrities/lucilleball/
RitchChristopher
professional business woman. One day she asked me if I'd ever heard of Ellen
Welsh? I said, "no". She replied, "Wanna know why? When I went to Hollywood,
Ellen and I were roommates with equal talent. Every morning when open call
came, I went and played maids, chorus girls. part of the crowd....just to be
noticed. Ellen was waiting for a 'role'. I GOT noticed by 'being there' when
Ellen wasn't. Today, I'm a multi-millionairess and only God knows where Ellen
is...still waiting on a role, I guess!"
She was a trooper and worked hard to get where she got...and worked even harder
to stay there. "Bitch"? Definitely not!
Volfie
"Elaine Gallant" <elaine...@yahoo.com> wrote
[..]>
> Lucy liked to do paperwork, writing, etc. She liked to sit at her
> desk, and would stay there all day. She did not like to be disturbed.
This is evidence of her bitchiness? Not wanting to be disturbed while doing
correspondence?
Giselle (case dismissed)
Carmen Dioxide
> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:50:37 GMT, "Yolanda Sanchez"
> <weird...@sbcglobal.net> wrote, in part:
>
> >People have been telling me she was mean and screamed at people and that her
> >own mother said she was a bitch. Is this true?
>
> I vaguely remember one of the tabloids claiming, just after her death,
> that she was a Communist... for the FBI.
Wrong. Her grandfather Hunt had signed up as one, and encouraged his
entire family to do so. Lucy was cleared of all accusations. Desi
said "The only thing red about Lucy is her hair...and even THAT isn't
legitimate. As for the "bitch" thing? Define "bitch." Was she driven
and a workaholic? Yes. Was she funny in real life? NO. Did she
spend enough quality time with her kids? Maybe not. There will always
be gossip.
Messalina
April Winchell tells an interesting story on her website about Lucy.
Her father, Paul Winchell, guested on one of Lucy's shows. Lucy liked
him very much and made much of him. Winchell's mother, who worked
with her dad, was also on the set. Lucy was extremely bitchy and
hostile to her. This behavior built during the course of the shoot.
Finally, Lucy offered Paul something to drink, so he asked for orange
juice. He drank half of it, then gave it to his wife to finish. Lucy
hit the roof; in front of the entire cast and crew she ranted that it
was she who had paid for that juice and that Winchell's mom had no
right to drink it. It should be mentioned that Mrs. Winchell was half
Lucy's age at this time, and a gorgeous former model.
I wasn't there, mind you, but it sounds like Lucy was just a damn
bitch.
Mez
Jule
Bette Davis said, "You have to have the guts to be hated." Jackie
Gleason wasn't a peach, either, but it was his show and he wanted
things done a certain way. LB was a strongly opinionated person as
well. It's rare that you'll find a soft-hearted leader.
Watcher
I also encountered her several times professionally. She was
extremely business-like, not cracking jokes or going for laughs as you
might expect. And very, very intelligent.
Argyle
Lucy was a perfectionist and knew her business backwards and forwards.
Because of this she was called a bitch.
I love the one in Joan Crawford's biography when she appeared on one of
Lucy's hour long shows.
When she finished taping the show Joan remarked "And they call me a bitch!"
The Living Personification of Evil
>Because of this she was called a bitch.
>
>I love the one in Joan Crawford's biography when she appeared on one of
>Lucy's hour long shows.
>When she finished taping the show Joan remarked "And they call me a bitch!"
One bio of Richard Burton contained excerpts from his diaries. He wrote at
length about his experience doing Lucy's show with Elizabeth Taylor. Now,
Burton was no shrinking violet and one might argue that anybody who could live
with his own and ET's ego for years on end probably had a high tolerance for
drama, but he concluded his notes by saying he would never see Lucille Ball
again. I would also note he wasn't drinking at the time. LB came across as
someone who simply believed herself to be the ultimate expert on the show and
didn't listen to anyone else. She overrode the director, who Burton liked,
bullied Gale Gordon (who Burton also admired) and talked down to Burton which
seems to be the ultimate sin in his mind. Interestingly enough she pretty much
left Elizabeth Taylor to her own devices. Either because she recognized that
she couldn't push ET or because she didn't want to be there if ET pushed back,
your choice.
I think...and I'm no expert...that Lucille Ball essentially wanted what she
wanted in regards to her shows and possibly those she knew and loved and really
didn't give a crap about being 'liked'. I also suspect her people skills were
somewhat lacking. Carole Cook, who worked with LB often, once said of LB's
children that LB wanted them desperately (she had trouble conceiving) and once
she had them she didn't know what to do with them.
Summation? Lucille Ball was probably a difficult person unless she was getting
what she wanted from you. She probably was a bitch, but I don't consider bitch
a bad word. She was tough, she was driven long after she'd proved her worth to
the world and she didn't make a lot of friends along the way. So? It must've
been hard to be her child or her husband or her co-worker, but I suspect she
saw her own legacy as her volume of work and perhaps it was worth it for her.
No biggie.
Baranduyn
************
"When Tony gets hungry, things die." Anthony Bourdain, "A Cook's Tour"
Carol Shubert
"RitchChristopher" <ritchchr...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20041021103452...@mb-m03.news.cs.com...
: I worked with her in the early 60's. She wasn't a bitch,
Cool story - I'm so glad you posted that. I can imagine
her saying those things ... with a cigarette at the tips of her
fingers, of course.
I saw her in a TV interview describing her experience
of holding little Lucie in her arms after the C-section
delivery. She said when she put the little infant Lucie up
on her shoulder, with that big blanket wrapped around
her, somehow the baby slipped out and slithered down
her back in the hospital bed, getting trapped between the
pillows and Lucy's back. Lucy couldn't move because
of the C-section, couldn't reach her at all and had to call
for help. She acted this out with gestures - funny stuff,
and a very funny lady.
E Varden
During Ball's last years she suffered a deep depression. She looked
miserable, acted miserably and spread gloom wherever she went.
Sadly ironic for a comedian...
Pe
TheCher118
Argyle
On 21-Oct-2004, bara...@aol.com (The Living Personification of Evil)
wrote:
> Summation? Lucille Ball was probably a difficult person unless she was
> getting
> what she wanted from you. She probably was a bitch, but I don't consider
> bitch
> a bad word. She was tough, she was driven long after she'd proved her
> worth to
> the world and she didn't make a lot of friends along the way. So? It
> must've
> been hard to be her child or her husband or her co-worker, but I suspect
> she
> saw her own legacy as her volume of work and perhaps it was worth it for
> her.
> No biggie.
>
> Baranduyn
> ************
Bottom line, really, is that she made millions of people laugh and is still
doing it, nearly twenty years after her death!
AKA
Yeah. Ceasar Romero "knew" him very well.
Veronique de la Croix
I read somewhere that when Joan Crawford – the premier movie diva at a
time when Lucy was just a struggling b-movie actress – guest-starred
on an episode of "The Lucy Show," she was by then a drunken has-been
who would frequently arrive late on the set and take sips from her
flask just before a scene. This lack of professionalism enraged Lucy,
who took Joan to task for drinking on the set and threatened to fire
her on the spot. Joan broke down in sobs and griped, "And they call
ME a bitch!"
If Lucy can make even La Belle Crawford cry, that makes her "Supreme
Bitch" in my book! :-) But hey, that's not necessarily a bad thing, is
it?
Veronique
Ellie
"E Varden" <jp...@MUNGE.vif.com> wrote in message
news:4177FE5F...@MUNGE.vif.com...
> Howie0331 wrote:
>>
>> >Even the talk shows were reluctant to book her. She was a bitch
>> >just because she was a bitch.
>> >
>>
>> Yes, indeed. She was unnecessarily bitchy to other guests. For instance,
>> I
>> still remember one appearance on Dinah Shore's talk show in 1977, in
>> which she
>> was the guest of honor. Valerie Harper had also been invited because she
>> and
>> Ball had appeared together in the ill-fated Wildcat in 1960. Harper was
>> discussing the show in tryouts in Philadelphia when Ball snapped "Who the
>> hell
>> cares?" Humiliating Harper when she was there to honor Ball, all in front
>> of a
>> studio audience and for TV viewers, too.
On another Dinah Shore talk show appearance she sat there and scolded Orson
Welles for wasting his talent and not working harder. Welles just silently
gazed at her in amusement and Dinah cut to commercial REAL quick. I don't
think a chat show is the place to critique a fellow entertainer, no matter
how true it might be.
SYSYPHUS' SISTER
Chalk it up to sleeping with a whisky bottle night after night.....
SYSYPHUS' SISTER
Original Lisa Pease
> >Even the talk shows were reluctant to book her. She was a bitch
> >just because she was a bitch.
> >
>
> Yes, indeed. She was unnecessarily bitchy to other guests. For instance, I
> still remember one appearance on Dinah Shore's talk show in 1977, in which she
> was the guest of honor. Valerie Harper had also been invited because she and
> Ball had appeared together in the ill-fated Wildcat in 1960. Harper was
> discussing the show in tryouts in Philadelphia when Ball snapped "Who the hell
> cares?" Humiliating Harper when she was there to honor Ball, all in front of a
> studio audience and for TV viewers, too.
These facts don't mean Lucy was a lesbian as the National Enquirer
asserted three years ago in a special issue on female legends in
entertainment history. There is no evidence that Lucy was anything
but straight.
Chris Pisarra
> Joan broke down in sobs and griped, "And they call
> ME a bitch!"
>
> If Lucy can make even La Belle Crawford cry, that makes her "Supreme
> Bitch" in my book! :-) But hey, that's not necessarily a bad thing, is
> it?
Acting!!!!!!!!
Chris
--
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular
error.
John Kenneth Galbraith
Bigolhomo
wrote:
Nobody said that these facts meant she was a lesbian. Learn to read
for comprehension you idiot.
Bigolhomo
KAR
"Bigolhomo" <br...@noparticulardomain.com> wrote in message
news:1gmgn0tg5nituc1rh...@4ax.com...
She can't understand what you wrote; she's an idiot with delusions of
grammer.
Zeb Quinn
> >Honestly, I don't think I've ever heard she was a "bitch". What does that
> >mean, anyway? She spoke her mind back in the '50s when women weren't
> >supposed to do that?
>
> "When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a women gives her opinion,
> she's a bitch."
> - Bette Davis
Every time I see that quote I laugh out loud. It's totally inapt and
ridiculously self-serving for women. The better saying is that
unpleasant obnoxious men are called assholes, and such women are
called bitches.
And, yes, Lucille Ball was widely regarded as a bitch. Even her
supposed improvised slapstick comedy, like eating candy from a
conveyer belt and stomping on grapes to make wine, was carefully
storyboarded and scripted, and Lucille was an ornery and stern
taskmaster about getting it right. What looked wild and funny on
screen was tense and overwrought on the set. Desi, who definitely had
his own problems, was nonetheless an easygoing type, and he couldn't
handle it.
Most people remember Lucy for her television work, but she had a long
movie career before that where she was a platinum blonde sex symbol.
Tina
>>> still remember one appearance on Dinah Shore's talk show in 1977, in which
>she
>>> was the guest of honor. Valerie Harper had also been invited because she
>and
>>> Ball had appeared together in the ill-fated Wildcat in 1960. Harper was
>>> discussing the show in tryouts in Philadelphia when Ball snapped "Who the
>hell
>>> cares?" Humiliating Harper when she was there to honor Ball, all in front
>of a
>>> studio audience and for TV viewers, too.
>>
Lisa Pease wrote:
>>These facts don't mean Lucy was a lesbian as the National Enquirer
>>asserted three years ago in a special issue on female legends in
>>entertainment history. There is no evidence that Lucy was anything
>>but straight.
Bigolhomo wrote:
>Nobody said that these facts meant she was a lesbian. Learn to read
>for comprehension you idiot.
This usually happens when the tampons on the tinfoil helmet gets crossed....
::::::Tina::::::
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tina
>She did bash her mother at one point and the backlash was swift and
>brutal from all of Lucy's adoring fans. She toned it down after that,
>and even produced a special about her parents using their home movies.
>It was a sad story really, Lucy adored Desi and he couldn't stay faithful.
That'sthe show I was talking about.....
Tina
>Yeah. Ceasar Romero "knew" him very well.
Yes he did....intimately. Desi apparently didn't mind an occasional blow job
from the same sex.
::::::Tina::::::
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Makan amess
everybody see the irony?
Norma Bates
Unfortunately, Miss Crawford was sloshed during rehearsals and Miss
Ball, the consummate professional, let her have it. Crawford shaped up
and did a fine job when it came time to film.
Norma Bates
>AKA wrote:
>>Yeah. Ceasar Romero "knew" him very well.
>
>Yes he did....intimately. Desi apparently didn't mind an occasional blow job
>from the same sex.
>
What man does?
mc
> >She can't understand what you wrote; she's an idiot with delusions of grammer.
>
>
> everybody see the irony?
Except that grammar is really separate from spelling. I'm nitpicking
I know.
BTW I had a dream of LB last nite and couldn't figure out why - I just
realized it was this thread! She came on stage at some awards show
and looked like a young mannequin, even though she was 90. I spend
too much time here--LOL!
MC
Keeper of Giovanni Ribisi!
Argyle
On 21-Oct-2004, Norma Bates <norma...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>Yeah. Ceasar Romero "knew" him very well.
> >
> >Yes he did....intimately. Desi apparently didn't mind an occasional blow
> >job from the same sex.
> >
>
> What man does?
Oooooh! I can hardly wait for the response to this! ;)
Argyle
On 21-Oct-2004, nast...@hotmail.com (Zeb Quinn) wrote:
> Most people remember Lucy for her television work, but she had a long
> movie career before that where she was a platinum blonde sex symbol.
Yep, and a damned beautiful one, too! Even when she made MAME she still had
great gams!
kassa
several) recounts the way Lucy reacted when Duke ran off with Desi,
Jr. (Duke was "the older woman").
It got ugly. If I remember correctly, Lucy played hardball to split
them up.
Don't know if in light of Duke's medical condition she revised the
story in later years -- I think I read this before she was openly
bipolar.
kassa
Norma Bates
Miss Ball's "long" career as a blonde was actually quite short. By
the time of "Stage Door" she was already naturally auburn (and check
out her hairline in that one: pre-electrolysis). It was "DuBarry Was a
Lady," I believe, when the studio finally gave her the Titian tresses
for which she would ever-after be known.
And yes, she always had great gams. Carefully examine her costuming in
"Mame" -- which brilliantly concealed the rest of her.
Carol Shubert
"kassa" <ka...@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
news:dc0f5f69.0410...@posting.google.com...
: Patty Duke's autobiography (or one of them -- I think there are
I remember reading Rona Barrett mags around that time.
Lucille was *brutal* to Patty. Echoes of those days:
http://www.lucilleball.net/collection/mags/photoplay.71-07.jpg
http://www.lucilleball.net/collection/mags/tv.r.mirr.70-09.jpg
Howie0331
>realized it was this thread! She came on stage at some awards show
>and looked like a young mannequin, even though she was 90. I spend
>too much time here--LOL!
LOL are you sure it wasn't Joan Rivers?
Lily
of Lucy's hour long shows.
When she finished taping the show Joan remarked "And they call me a
bitch!">>
I thought I'd seen every half hour and hour long episode of the Lucy
shows, and I can't remember one with Joan Crawford in it. I can't
believe I would have missed Joan Crawford--so can someone give me just a
quick plot rundown?
Lily
Howie0331
This was actually a half-hour "Lucy Show" episode which originally aired in
early 1968. Vivian Vance, who left the show in 1965, was also a guest star.
The plot basically has Lucy and Viv, whose car has broken down while
sight-seeing, going to the house of Joan Crawford, who has had the furniture in
her house removed because she is in the process of cleaning it. Lucy and Viv
mistakenly believe Crawford has fallen on hard times and has sold the furniture
for cash, and try to get Mr. Mooney (Gale Gordon) to help her.
For some reason (I haven't seen this episode in 30 years, so bear with me)
Lucy, Viv, Mr. Mooney and Crawford put on a play in which Crawford does a
Charleston number dressed as a Rebecca-From-Sunnybrook-Farm-type.
Some claim you can hear Crawford slurring her dialogue in the earlier part of
the episode...
Zeb Quinn
> Miss Ball's "long" career as a blonde was actually quite short. By
> the time of "Stage Door" she was already naturally auburn (and check
> out her hairline in that one: pre-electrolysis). It was "DuBarry Was a
> Lady," I believe, when the studio finally gave her the Titian tresses
> for which she would ever-after be known.
Twenty years in movies during Hollywood's supposed golden age is long
enough to qualify as "long" IMHO. Yeah, her years as a blond weren't
all that long, and, yeah, in Stage Door her hair was reddish, but she
was still playing the role of sex symbol. And she wasn't too bad at it
either.
Norma Bates
wrote:
Hmm. Let's see. "Stage Door" was 1937. "Twenty years" earlier would
mean 1917.
Miss Ball was born in 1911.
So, are you saying she started in films as a "blonde" at age 6?
Maybe you're right. Just asking.
Doctor Wu
veroniqu...@hotmail.com (Veronique de la Croix) wrote:
> I read somewhere that when Joan Crawford – the premier movie diva at a
> time when Lucy was just a struggling b-movie actress – guest-starred
> on an episode of "The Lucy Show," she was by then a drunken has-been
> who would frequently arrive late on the set and take sips from her
> flask just before a scene. This lack of professionalism enraged Lucy,
> who took Joan to task for drinking on the set and threatened to fire
> her on the spot. Joan broke down in sobs and griped, "And they call
> ME a bitch!"
>
> If Lucy can make even La Belle Crawford cry, that makes her "Supreme
> Bitch" in my book! :-) But hey, that's not necessarily a bad thing, is
> it?
It's not being bitchy if you act that way towards someone like Crawford
supposedly was. I admire professionalism, in fact i'm often called a
bitch because I expect people to work while at work not sit there and
download crap off the internet. I'm actually a pretty nice person
IMNSHO ;-)
Usual Suspect
"Watcher" <terr...@yahoo.com> wrote ...
> (Elayne444) wrote >...
> > >People have been telling me she was mean and screamed at people and
that her
> > >own mother said she was a bitch. Is this true?
> >
> > For what it's worth, my grandfather worked in a job where he encountered
her
> > more than a few times and he always said she was very gracious.
>
> I also encountered her several times professionally. She was
> extremely business-like, not cracking jokes or going for laughs as you
> might expect. And very, very intelligent.
Usual Suspect
...
"The Living Personification of Evil" <bara...@aol.com> wrote ...
> >Lucy was a perfectionist and knew her business backwards and forwards.
> >Because of this she was called a bitch.
> >
> >I love the one in Joan Crawford's biography when she appeared on one of
> >Lucy's hour long shows.
> >When she finished taping the show Joan remarked "And they call me a
bitch!"
>
> One bio of Richard Burton contained excerpts from his diaries. He wrote
at
> length about his experience doing Lucy's show with Elizabeth Taylor. Now,
> Burton was no shrinking violet and one might argue that anybody who could
live
> with his own and ET's ego for years on end probably had a high tolerance
for
> drama, but he concluded his notes by saying he would never see Lucille
Ball
> again. I would also note he wasn't drinking at the time. LB came across
as
> someone who simply believed herself to be the ultimate expert on the show
and
> didn't listen to anyone else. She overrode the director, who Burton
liked,
> bullied Gale Gordon (who Burton also admired) and talked down to Burton
which
> seems to be the ultimate sin in his mind. Interestingly enough she pretty
much
> left Elizabeth Taylor to her own devices. Either because she recognized
that
> she couldn't push ET or because she didn't want to be there if ET pushed
back,
> your choice.
>
> I think...and I'm no expert...that Lucille Ball essentially wanted what
she
> wanted in regards to her shows and possibly those she knew and loved and
really
> didn't give a crap about being 'liked'. I also suspect her people skills
were
> somewhat lacking. Carole Cook, who worked with LB often, once said of
LB's
> children that LB wanted them desperately (she had trouble conceiving) and
once
> she had them she didn't know what to do with them.
>
> Summation? Lucille Ball was probably a difficult person unless she was
getting
> what she wanted from you. She probably was a bitch, but I don't consider
bitch
> a bad word. She was tough, she was driven long after she'd proved her
worth to
> the world and she didn't make a lot of friends along the way. So? It
must've
> been hard to be her child or her husband or her co-worker, but I suspect
she
> saw her own legacy as her volume of work and perhaps it was worth it for
her.
> No biggie.
>
> Baranduyn
> ************
>
>
>
> "When Tony gets hungry, things die." Anthony Bourdain, "A Cook's Tour"
Zeb Quinn
>> >Twenty years in movies during Hollywood's supposed golden age is
long
> >enough to qualify as "long" IMHO. Yeah, her years as a blond weren't
> >all that long, and, yeah, in Stage Door her hair was reddish, but she
> >was still playing the role of sex symbol. And she wasn't too bad at it
> >either.
>
> Hmm. Let's see. "Stage Door" was 1937. "Twenty years" earlier would
> mean 1917.
>
> Miss Ball was born in 1911.
>
> So, are you saying she started in films as a "blonde" at age 6?
>
> Maybe you're right. Just asking.
What, are you a congential arguer? Is that your thing? I agree that
it can be a fun sport, but if you don't know what you are doing you
just look stupid. The most common mistake that laypersons make in this
endeavor is getting too wound up in their argument, sometimes
emotionally so, and then failing to read what others write or say with
discernment and objectivity. And it's often a fatal error because
discernment and objectivity are critical in formulating a reasoned and
incisive responsive argument. This appears to apply to you in spades.
So let's reiterate and clarify.
First, I *never* said:
1. That she spent 20 years in the movies before Stage Door.
2. That she spent 20 years as a platinum blond.
I did say that:
1. That she spent 20 years making movies.
2. During that 20 year movie career she was a platinum blond sex
symbol type.
Got it? Now go forward and try again elsewhere.
Howie0331
>First, I *never* said:
>
>1. That she spent 20 years in the movies before Stage Door.
>2. That she spent 20 years as a platinum blond.
>
>I did say that:
>
>1. That she spent 20 years making movies.
>2. During that 20 year movie career she was a platinum blond sex
>symbol type.
>
>Got it? Now go forward and try again elsewhere.
To be more specific, Lucille Ball started her film career in 1933 as a blonde,
and would remain a blonde until about 1936 (a three-year period). She never
really played a sex symbol, more like the wise-cracking second-lead, a little
like Patsy Kelly only prettier.
It wasn't until she went to MGM in 1943 that she was given the A-picture
glamour treatment (her appearance in Ziegfeld Follies, although brief, is quite
spectacular).
Ellzeena
>but American men don't like intelligent women ... for the most part ...
>
Only the really, really stupid ones.
++++++
That HAIR!!!!!
http://journals.aol.com/ellzeena/FixThatHAIR/
jrogow
airlines because of her disruptive behaviour while on flights.
~~~
Howie0331
>
>In her later years she was a "mean drunk" and banned from several
>airlines because of her disruptive behaviour while on flights.
I have heard that, too. In one incident she supposedly threw a cocktail glass
at a stewardess, scarring her face.
Carmen Dioxide
> I seem to remember a story where she kicked Jack Benny when he was a guest on
> her show. I don't recall the details.
Nonsense. She kicked her SHOE off accidentally while dancing, and
they had to re-do a scene. Get the new Here's Lucy DVD set and watch
it.
jrogow
airlines because of her disruptive behaviour while on flights.
~~~
Tina
>> Bitch" in my book! :-) But hey, that's not necessarily a bad thing, is
>> it?
>
Lisa Wu wrote:
>It's not being bitchy if you act that way towards someone like Crawford
>supposedly was. I admire professionalism, in fact i'm often called a
>bitch because I expect people to work while at work not sit there and
>download crap off the internet. I'm actually a pretty nice person
>IMNSHO ;-)
I think there's a fine line between being "assertive"..... and being a mean
spiteful bitch just for the sake of being mean and spiteful. Somewhere along
the line, the two terms merged together as being one in the same. Now every
woman who considers themselves "assertive" globs onto the label of being a
bitch as if it's some admirable trait. I personally admire people who are
assertive but not ill-mannered and vindictive. That's what I call a "bitch".
FWIW Lisa, I don't consider what you did to your coworkers as "bitchy" but
assertive. There's too many people who get away with breaking the rules at work
and I would have done the same thing. Unless of course you were doing it purely
to be vindictive...which I'm sure you were not.
mc
Lol! The funny part was she got such a weak applause onstage -- the
audience must have been filled with AGC'ers ;)
Norma Bates
wrote:
>Norma Bates <norma...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<506kn05foffpr6sgv...@4ax.com>...
Dearest Darling:
You must be a Bush supporter. Deny, deny, deny.
What you actually said was:
"Most people remember Lucy for her television work, but she had a long
movie career before that where she was a platinum blonde sex symbol."
She was in fact "blonde" for fewer than 3 out of those 20-odd years,
which means that far less than one-seventh of her film career (up
through "Mame") was spent as a "platinum blonde."
That may be "a long movie career before that where she was a platinum
blonde sex symbol," to you: to me it's just your factual ignorance.
And no, Sweetest Cupcake, I'm not a congenital argurer. But I feel it
my compassionate conservatism to point out, as so many beautician
friends have warned me, that too many years of bleach can seep through
the scalp and damage the cranial cortex.
My sincerest suggestion, Dumpling? Go back to your natural color.
jh...@roplink.com
> People have been telling me she was mean and screamed at people and that her
> own mother said she was a bitch. Is this true?
Miloch
jh...@roplink.com says...
October 20, 2004"
If correct, a better question is why you waited over ten years to answer.
*
wenb...@gmail.com
Miloch
wenb...@gmail.com says...
RKO as a contract actress?
*
dder...@gmail.com
> shaqui...@aol.comdeadspam (Spam Tracer) wrote in message news:<20041020210439...@mb-m02.aol.com>...
>
> > >Honestly, I don't think I've ever heard she was a "bitch". What does that
> > >mean, anyway? She spoke her mind back in the '50s when women weren't
> > >supposed to do that?
> >
> > "When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a women gives her opinion,
> > she's a bitch."
> > - Bette Davis
>
>
> Every time I see that quote I laugh out loud. It's totally inapt and
> ridiculously self-serving for women. The better saying is that
> unpleasant obnoxious men are called assholes, and such women are
> called bitches.
>
> And, yes, Lucille Ball was widely regarded as a bitch. Even her
> supposed improvised slapstick comedy, like eating candy from a
> conveyer belt and stomping on grapes to make wine, was carefully
> storyboarded and scripted, and Lucille was an ornery and stern
> taskmaster about getting it right. What looked wild and funny on
> screen was tense and overwrought on the set. Desi, who definitely had
> his own problems, was nonetheless an easygoing type, and he couldn't
> handle it.
> Most people remember Lucy for her television work, but she had a long
> movie career before that where she was a platinum blonde sex symbol.
Michael Yarnell
> People have been telling me she was mean and screamed at people and that her
> own mother said she was a bitch. Is this true?
First, Ms. Ball was very protective of her brand. She worked hard to ensure that perfection was intended by everyone around her. The idea that she would be rude and turn her nose to a flight attendant is just an out and out lie. This never happened and I know this because my mother was Ms. Ball's make-up artist. Ms. Ball was always in a very convincing disguise when flying. You would never have know you were sitting beside her unless she spoke. In fact, I recall a story where Ms. Ball watched a patron berate a diner at a restaurant. She personally walked over to the table and asked this man, if he really thought the waitress should have to "take his sh**?". "I wouldn't if I were here", was her response.
On set, Ms. Ball was very focused and very serious. She also had a terrible experience almost every day with Vivian Vance and William Farwley. It's widely known that these two people hated each other and Ms. Ball would often find herself in the middle. Her close friendship with Vivian Vance also caused consternation on set with Farwley.
Was Lucille Ball a bitch? NO...she was a woman of the 40's, 50's and 60's...she had to have thick skin and if a little rubbed off on you, then you were lucky.