Bush 41 Breakdown, wow
CliffB
WTH happened? Ole 41 getting on with his second childhood or something?
majcm
"CliffB" <fl...@gosympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1165450231.3...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/politics/2006/12/05/sot.hw.bush.crying.wtxl
>
> WTH happened? Ole 41 getting on with his second childhood or something?
>
for Jeb. I think it's sweet and shows a human side to a politician who I
didn't like at ALL when he ran against Clinton (didn't like Clinton either,
voted Perot...I know, dumb move) but in the last 4-5 years I've come to
REALLY like 41.
FDR
"majcm" <MeMe....@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:wfydnShrUvmP_-rY...@insightbb.com...
Presidents aren't supposed to cry...it shows weakness and gives aid and
comfort to the enemy.
Bob uecker
"CliffB" <fl...@gosympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1165450231.3...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> WTH happened? Ole 41 getting on with his second childhood or something?
What the FUCK WAS THAT?!?!?!?!?!
gaffo
bullshit.
--
gaffo
I always like Sr, though did not vote for him due to his neglect of
domestic policy (i.e. economy of 92). his foreign policy remains the
best in 50 yrs however. Histroy will redeem him in this area.
now we know "goingin to bagdad" WAS A BAD IDEA and Sr. was correct in
not going in.
Gulf War - the way to win a war. Declair a clear goal, get
ibnternational support, and logical means to triumph - then get the
fuck out after it is done.
unlike this idiot Son.
--
Ilene Bilenky
"majcm" <MeMe....@insightbb.com> wrote:
> I haven't seen the whole speech anywhere, but he was choked up with pride
> for Jeb. I think it's sweet
If not misinformed.
ilene B
Agent Smith
@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
The only reason George the First didn't win a second term was because
Perot split the Republican vote in '92. If Perot hadn't run, Bush would
have had 2 terms, and Clinton may not have had any. Not that Clinton
was a bad president, but Junior will go down in history as a screw up of
the first magnitude, like Nixon and LBJ.
Tom Sr.
Agent Smith wrote:
> The only reason George the First didn't win a second term was because
> Perot split the Republican vote in '92. If Perot hadn't run, Bush would
> have had 2 terms, and Clinton may not have had any. Not that Clinton
> was a bad president, but Junior will go down in history as a screw up of
> the first magnitude, like Nixon and LBJ.
Nixon will be somewhat saved in history from being a total screw-up
because of his success in foreign policy (China in particular).
LBJ will be somewhat saved in history from being a total screw-up
because of his success in domestic policy (Equal Rights in particular).
W. Bush will just go down in history as a fucking, total screw-up.
No matter how delusional some right-wing extremists and neocons still
are even now, Time will always be against W. Bush -- and the clock has
been ticking for some years now.
-Tom Sr.
Joe S.
"CliffB" <fl...@gosympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1165450231.3...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> WTH happened? Ole 41 getting on with his second childhood or something?
>
Jim Baker had just told Bush 41 what the ISG report was going to saw and
Bush 41 was breaking down over the fact that Bush 43 was about to take a big
one right up the ass.
bartvan...@gmail.com
gaffo wrote:
> I always like Sr, though did not vote for him due to his neglect of
> domestic policy (i.e. economy of 92). his foreign policy remains the
> best in 50 yrs however.
Bwahahahaha. See below for some FACTS you ignored.
> now we know "goingin to bagdad" WAS A BAD IDEA and Sr. was correct in
> not going in.
He wanted to, and even urged the Iraqis to stand up against Saddam.
Then his advisors told him "uh, you do realise that if you remove
Saddam, you have to become Saddam?" and then 41 quickly changed his
mind, and even allowed Saddam to put a bloody end to the uprising.
> Gulf War - the way to win a war. Declair a clear goal, get
> ibnternational support,
You might wanna look into what the US did to Yemen when that country
expressed some reservations about the war.
> and logical means to triumph - then get the
> fuck out after it is done.
Oh really? 41 set up a phoney war against Iraq by telling Saddam that
the US wouldn't intervene should Saddam decide to kick some Kuwait ass
because that country was taunting Iraq. So Saddam invaded Kuwait and lo
and behold, suddenly he became the enemy of the US -- whereas Rummy had
gone to Iraq years earlier to rekindle the soured relationships
(helping Saddam use WMDs against Iran, BTW, while the Reagan government
was helping Saddam cover up that he'd gassed Kurds).
Cue the next stage of the plan: convince the Saudis that Saddam was
gonna invade them next. Result: US got to set up bases in the country
that contains TWO of Islam's holiest places. Fall-out: this pissed off
Osama Bin Laden, and we know what happened next.
And remember the "nurse" who testified that Iraqi soldiers were killing
babies? 41 is just the same as 43: using lies to start a war, using
hype to pretend the enemy is a dangerous opponent. Iraq had just come
out of a bloody ten year war with Iran, had a devastated economy, had
debts all over the place and couldn't buy new arms, and this was
supposed to be a dangerous enemy? Nevertheless, that didn't stop US
troops from bombing FLEEING soldiers and citizens, images that US
networks of course censored.
--
BVH
Annie
Even former Presidents that in their late 70s and haven't been in
office in 14 years? That's a bit restrictive. or maybe partisan.
strange
Red
On Dec 6, 7:38 pm, "FDR" <_removespamfilter_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "majcm" <MeMe.nos...@insightbb.com> wrote in messagenews:wfydnShrUvmP_-rY...@insightbb.com...
>
>
>
> > "CliffB" <f...@gosympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >news:1165450231.3...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >>http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/politics/2006/...
>
> >> WTH happened? Ole 41 getting on with his second childhood or something?
>
> > I haven't seen the whole speech anywhere, but he was choked up with pride
> > for Jeb. I think it's sweet and shows a human side to a politician who I
> > didn't like at ALL when he ran against Clinton (didn't like Clinton
> > either, voted Perot...I know, dumb move) but in the last 4-5 years I've
> > come to REALLY like 41.Presidents aren't supposed to cry...it shows weakness and gives aid and
> comfort to the enemy.
Even ex-Presidents? I think it's telling as a Father. No matter your
politics and thoughts about W. George H. Bush is an honorable man and
a great father. Too bad more men aren't like him. Instead some father
children out of wedlock and take off on the family. They are scum.
They should be castrated. Nothing worse than a man leaving his family.
At least George didn't. Speaks volumes for me.
Red
On Dec 6, 8:18 pm, "gaffo" <g...@usenet.net> wrote:
> majcm wrote:
>
> > "CliffB" <f...@gosympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >news:1165450231.3...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/politics/2006
> > > /12/05/sot.hw.bush.crying.wtxl
>
> > > WTH happened? Ole 41 getting on with his second childhood or
> > > something?
>
> > I haven't seen the whole speech anywhere, but he was choked up with
> > pride for Jeb. I think it's sweet and shows a human side to a
> > politician who I didn't like at ALL when he ran against Clinton
> > (didn't like Clinton either, voted Perot...I know, dumb move) but in
> > the last 4-5 years I've come to REALLY like 41.I always like Sr, though did not vote for him due to his neglect of
> domestic policy (i.e. economy of 92). his foreign policy remains the
> best in 50 yrs however. Histroy will redeem him in this area.
>
> now we know "goingin to bagdad" WAS A BAD IDEA and Sr. was correct in
> not going in.
>
> Gulf War - the way to win a war. Declair a clear goal, get
> ibnternational support, and logical means to triumph - then get the
> fuck out after it is done.
>
> unlike this idiot Son.
>
> --
Solid post!
Red
On Dec 6, 9:40 pm, Agent Smith
<agent-sm...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> wrote:
> "gaffo" <g...@usenet.net> wrote in news:LZJdh.8454$wc5.1044
> @newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
>
> > majcm wrote:
>
> >> "CliffB" <f...@gosympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>news:1165450231.3...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> >http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/politics/2006
>
>
>
>
>
> >> > /12/05/sot.hw.bush.crying.wtxl
>
> >> > WTH happened? Ole 41 getting on with his second childhood or
> >> > something?
>
> >> I haven't seen the whole speech anywhere, but he was choked up with
> >> pride for Jeb. I think it's sweet and shows a human side to a
> >> politician who I didn't like at ALL when he ran against Clinton
> >> (didn't like Clinton either, voted Perot...I know, dumb move) but in
> >> the last 4-5 years I've come to REALLY like 41.
>
> > I always like Sr, though did not vote for him due to his neglect of
> > domestic policy (i.e. economy of 92). his foreign policy remains the
> > best in 50 yrs however. Histroy will redeem him in this area.
>
> > now we know "goingin to bagdad" WAS A BAD IDEA and Sr. was correct in
> > not going in.
>
> > Gulf War - the way to win a war. Declair a clear goal, get
> > ibnternational support, and logical means to triumph - then get the
> > fuck out after it is done.The only reason George the First didn't win a second term was because
> Perot split the Republican vote in '92. If Perot hadn't run, Bush would
> have had 2 terms, and Clinton may not have had any. Not that Clinton
> was a bad president, but Junior will go down in history as a screw up of
> the first magnitude, like Nixon and LBJ.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
Remember in both elections Clinton never got 50% of the vote. Very
telling. The first one he only got 43% of the vote.
FDR
<bartvan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165485980.3...@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
Cue response from conservative poster calling you hysterical......
..andnothingbut
news:wfydnShrUvmP_-rY...@insightbb.com:
Was it Mondale, or McGovern whom the republicans bashed LIKE ALL HELL when
he cried while addressing the REPUBLISCUM attack on his family?
The whole Bush family is scum!!!!
f_pa...@yahoo.com
Red wrote:
Let's not get carried away. He was Dubya's father. Did he do a good
job? And he may not have divorced his wife, but he had extramarital
affirs (Jennifer Fitzgerald). He was actually a pretty sleazy,
miserable guy in a lot of ways (think about his role in Iran/Contra)
but we like to assume our ex-presidents are dignified.
Agent Smith
news:1165500300.5...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
You say "very telling" in an ominous way, but there was nothing ominous
about it, because Clinton's presidency was fine. In '72, Nixon won in a
landslide, but his presidency was a disaster. What you said is not a
good predictor of how successful a presidency is. A good predictor is
whether the popular vote and the electoral vote went to different
candidates. America has never had a successful president who didn't win
both. Clinton did.
f_pa...@yahoo.com
remarkable and cringeworthy). I think what happened is, Bush Sr. knows
what a mess, indeed a disaster Dubya is as president. But Sr. pretty
much knew that would be the case. His favorite son was Jeb, and he
broke down because, reviewing Jeb's history reminded him that Jeb - not
Dubya - should gave been the US president. Sr. knows that his own
(already dubious) presidential legacy will be associated with Dubya's
mess; and he Jeb would have helped the Bush legacy rather than ruined
it.
humbubba
Maybe he's getting ready to admit he shot JFK.
Rick Hohensee
jeremyfivemiami2
> for Jeb. I think it's sweet and shows a human side to a politician
I think it shows a PUSSY EXTRAORDINAIRE. Wimpy crybaby. Get a
grip--almost as bad as when he vomited on the Japanese.
Amazing what money can buy. Here in Florida, we've seen Jeb's
appointments resign in scandal after scandal related to cronyism and
evasion of fair bidding on government contracts. When Florida needed a
new chief for it's agency social service agency, Jeb went to one of the
very few states in the nation with a worse record on child welfare than
Florida's for its chief--friend of Bush family--more corrupt cronyism.
The chief resigned amid terrible scandal, of course. We've seen
voting scandals, most notoriously Jeb's famous ERRONEOUS FELON'S LIST,
full of names of (mostly Democrat's naturally) of those who were never
felons at all. Ex-felons are not allowed to vote in Florida. (Nice
pass of votes on to Bro Dubya, wouldn't ya say?) We've seen this
governor jump inappropriately into clear-cut legal matters like Terry
Shaivo, pandering to his conservative base. And who can forget Jeb's
"just-too-close" relationship with scandal-plagued Kathrine Harris, and
subsequent rejection of her. (She had outlived her usefulness.)
I heard a Neocon call Jeb the best governer in the nation the other
day. If so, this nation is in BIG, BIG TROUBLE. But again, this is
the same party that just elevated racist homophobe Trent Lott to a top
position in the Senate. And they wonder why they are the party out of
favor???
Bye bye Jeb. This is one "Hermano Bush" that a lot of us won't miss.
Stay home and cry, Bush Crybaby Daddy. A lot of us don't need to
witness more of your leaky bodily functions on television.
J
Kyle
It was Muskey.
yD
And imo Jeb is no better than his brother the President. I can
understand a parent breaking down over what George W. has done to the
country and the family name, but to cry in pride for the son, Jeb, who
tried to give the government the final say in the medical treatment of
a person -- over families and the person herself. Barf to each and
every one of the Bushes. When is Neil going to see the inside of a
prison btw?
yD
arg...@priest.com
likes of GW into the world I be crying too! Can you imagine the
psychological pressures he must be under since sonny took office.
GHWB wasn't the greatest president but he sure as hell knew when to pull
out. Except when it came to Babs!
Yeah, this is a left-handed compliment to GHWB.
arg...@priest.com
On 6-Dec-2006, Agent Smith <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> wrote:
> The only reason George the First didn't win a second term was because
> Perot split the Republican vote in '92. If Perot hadn't run, Bush would
> have had 2 terms, and Clinton may not have had any. Not that Clinton
> was a bad president, but Junior will go down in history as a screw up of
> the first magnitude, like Nixon and LBJ.
Please! Don't even mention Nixon in the same breath as W! W makes Nixon
look like a saint and genius. At least Nixon had a brain. It may not have
always functioned correctly but he had one! Nixon's problem was completely
medical. He was a manic depressive. Unfortunately, there wasn't much that
could be done at the time, other than shock treatments. Not a very good
choice.
arg...@priest.com
On 7-Dec-2006, "Red" <RedRed...@aol.com> wrote:
> Remember in both elections Clinton never got 50% of the vote. Very
> telling. The first one he only got 43% of the vote.
Yes, but at least he won by more than 3 million votes. In the 3 way race he
won by more that 25 million!
arg...@priest.com
On 6-Dec-2006, "Joe S." <an...@mous.net> wrote:
> Jim Baker had just told Bush 41 what the ISG report was going to saw and
> Bush 41 was breaking down over the fact that Bush 43 was about to take a
> big one right up the ass.
He's had a big one right up the ass for years. It's call a Dick (Cheney)!
Kyle
LOL! I've heard that the war has literally kept GHWB awake at night.
I don't get his attraction to Babs at all; even while much younger, she
was something of a bulldog. But remember: He hasn't at all been
faithful to her. Maybe he was less blatant about his infidelities
(actually, I'm not so sure of that) than Clinton, but they were there.
fred_h...@yahoo.com
gaffo wrote:
>
> I always like Sr, though did not vote for him due to his neglect of
.
If Clinton had run a third term (not possible but just pretend) would
you have voted NAY due to the recession/dot-com crash of 2000?
Truth is presidents have little control over the economy. Blaming them
for the economy is as false as blaming them for a rash of hurricanes.
fred_h...@yahoo.com
jeremyfivemiami2 wrote:
>
> Amazing what money can buy. Here in Florida, we've seen Jeb's
> appointments resign in scandal after scandal
You'd prefer he leave those corrupt people in power?
Kyle
Jeb is widely considered to be the most talented politician of his
generation of Bushes. But that really doesn't say much; and I despise
the lot of them.
I understand there's some extremely serious dirt out there on Jeb's
daughter.
Agent Smith
news:SVXdh.38152$xw1....@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
>
> On 6-Dec-2006, Agent Smith <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The only reason George the First didn't win a second term was because
>> Perot split the Republican vote in '92. If Perot hadn't run, Bush
>> would have had 2 terms, and Clinton may not have had any. Not that
>> Clinton was a bad president, but Junior will go down in history as a
>> screw up of the first magnitude, like Nixon and LBJ.
>
> Please! Don't even mention Nixon in the same breath as W!
> At least Nixon had a brain.
Well, I can't deny that, but it begs the question of whom is more evil -
a powerful imbecil who screws up and costs men their lives, or a
powerful, mentally ill, brilliant man who makes mistakes that cost
people their lives.
> W makes Nixon look like a saint and genius.
Yes on '2' and no on '1'. During Nixon's reign, more men died in
Vietnam than the entire Iraq War. Again, I think that puts the greater
fault onto Nixon.
The counter argument is, of course, that America had never been in a
losing war, and without a historical precend to learn from, Vietnam is
more 'forgivable'.
I suspect that, if this question were thrown open to discussion in a
large, university, pilosophy class, no consensus would ever be reached.
I tend to put the intelligent higher on the list of evil, because their
intelligengce gives them greater responsibilities.
> Nixon's problem was completely medical. He was a manic depressive.
This is surprising to me, but I looked it up, and apparently it's true.
I'm curious to know how this was figured out; who made the diagnosis and
how? All I ever knew about Nixon's state of mind is that he was
paranoid, which I've never heard associated with bipolarity.
> Unfortunately, there wasn't much that could be done at the time, other
> than shock treatments. Not a very good choice.
You certainly don't want your president going through that, but then you
also don't want your country going through Watergate. My dad was an MD,
and he was fascinated by the historical importance of presidential
medical problems.
Kennedy was nearly crippled by Addison's disease, and by the cortisone
that they used to treat it. Lincoln had a neurological condition whose
name I forget, but which gave him crippling headaches. The evidence is
apparently visible in that famous photographic portrait of him, because
one of his eyelids clearly doesn't open as far as the other.
I believe that Lincoln also had bouts of depression, due to the death of
his son and the stresses of the war, but apparently he wasn't
chroncially depressed. Mary Kennedy was, and I think that her
depression eventually became a depressive psychosis. She died nearly a
recluse in her apartment, which I don't think she left for several
years, before the end.
And of course, FDR *was* crippled.
record hunter
humbubba wrote:
> Maybe he's getting ready to admit he shot JFK.
>
> Rick Hohensee
Is that a theory?
Userb3
> in the last 4-5 years I've come to
> REALLY like 41.
>
Its a lot easier to be an ex-president than to be president.
--
Let the Religious Right Form Their Own Party!
http://www.gopchoice.org/
http://www.mypartytoo.com/
http://www.realrepublicanmajority.org/
Ilene Bilenky
Agent Smith <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> wrote:
> During Nixon's reign, more men died in
> Vietnam than the entire Iraq War.
Remember that Johnson was the president during the biggest build-up and
many combat deaths.
Even if Nixon was a diagnosable manic-depressive (and I don't know that
he was), that doesn't excuse or explain his dreadful actions. He tried
to shred the Constitution he'd sworn to uphold (America's secular bible)
and did keep the war going way too long with his lies and the many
combat and civilian deaths. No mental illness or inclination thereof
explains that.
But yes, Bush is a self-righteous moron.
Ilene B
Agent Smith
news:ileneb-4DE542....@comcast.dca.giganews.com:
> In article <Xns989289A3758FEag...@207.115.17.102>,
> Agent Smith <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> wrote:
>
>> During Nixon's reign, more men died in
>> Vietnam than the entire Iraq War.
>
> Remember that Johnson was the president during the biggest build-up
> and many combat deaths.
>
> Even if Nixon was a diagnosable manic-depressive (and I don't know
> that he was), that doesn't excuse or explain his dreadful actions. He
> tried to shred the Constitution he'd sworn to uphold (America's
> secular bible)
That's the great thing about America; it's a self-correcting system.
Shredding the Constitution is a sign of extreme incompetence, destroys
the shredder almost immediately. The voters make short work of them at
the voting booth.
This system is completely blind to the party identity. When the
Democrats screwed everything up by raising taxes too hig *and* spending
too much on social programs, they got destroyed at the voting booth,
too. Americans want the hard problems solved, and they want it done
with fiscal restraint, and if the flavor of the week can't do it,
they'll give the otehr party a try.
Today it's the Democrats' turn, but that won't last, either.
Nancy2
CliffB wrote:
>
> WTH happened? Ole 41 getting on with his second childhood or something?
What is the meaning of the "41" in these reports?
Saying "Bush 41 blah blah blah" makes no sense.
N.
CliffB
41'st president, as opposed to the current who is "43".
su-t...@webtv.net
Lincoln had a neurological condition whose name I forget, but which gave
him crippling headaches. The evidence is apparently visible in that
famous photographic portrait of him, because one of his eyelids clearly
doesn't open as far as the other.
I believe that Lincoln also had bouts of depression, due to the death of
his son and the stresses of the war, but apparently he wasn't
chroncially depressed.
Mary Kennedy was, and I think that her depression eventually became a
depressive psychosis. She died nearly a recluse in her apartment, which
I don't think she left for several years, before the end.
=====================================
Interesting.
What else do you know about Lincoln's state of mind & mental health?
Many of his actions appear to be in direct conflict, of what he wrote,
of his speeches. The opposite.
Susan Wms, Su_Texas my opinions
Nancy2
I eventually figgered it out - but it really reads idiotic. I thought
they used George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush to keep them separate.
N.
yD
And there's a straight line of White House staffers, aides, et al from
Nixon, through Reagan, 1st Bush and this one.
yD
Kyle
I like your sense of humor. Yeah, Bush Sr. may very well have known
what Baker's group was about to say, and that may have contributed to
his breakdown. He also may have believed that if Jeb Bush (not Dubya)
had been president, none of this mess would exist.
record hunter
It's perfectly clear blah blah blah to me.
record hunter
41 & 43 are shorter. The less time and fewer letters wasted on those
two, the better.
Agent Smith
news:24834-457...@storefull-3133.bay.webtv.net:
With the exception of the neurological problem, I learned everything I
know about Lincoln from Ken Burns' "Civil War" mini series from PBS.
It's quite exhaustive, and covers the war years from every angle,
including Lincoln's personal life.
AFAIK, it's a must read everyone with an IQ above 90. When you're born,
they should put a copy into your hands before they send you home from
the hospital. You shouldn't be an American citizen without watching it,
even if your family came ver on the Mayflower.
trotsky
> <bartvan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165485980.3...@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>
>>gaffo wrote:
>>
>>>I always like Sr, though did not vote for him due to his neglect of
>>>domestic policy (i.e. economy of 92). his foreign policy remains the
>>>best in 50 yrs however.
>>
>>Bwahahahaha. See below for some FACTS you ignored.
>>
>>
>>>now we know "goingin to bagdad" WAS A BAD IDEA and Sr. was correct in
>>>not going in.
>>
>>He wanted to, and even urged the Iraqis to stand up against Saddam.
>>Then his advisors told him "uh, you do realise that if you remove
>>Saddam, you have to become Saddam?" and then 41 quickly changed his
>>mind, and even allowed Saddam to put a bloody end to the uprising.
>>
>>
>>>Gulf War - the way to win a war. Declair a clear goal, get
>>>ibnternational support,
>>
>>You might wanna look into what the US did to Yemen when that country
>>expressed some reservations about the war.
>>
>>
>>>and logical means to triumph - then get the
>>>fuck out after it is done.
>>
>>Oh really? 41 set up a phoney war against Iraq by telling Saddam that
>>the US wouldn't intervene should Saddam decide to kick some Kuwait ass
>>because that country was taunting Iraq. So Saddam invaded Kuwait and lo
>>and behold, suddenly he became the enemy of the US -- whereas Rummy had
>>gone to Iraq years earlier to rekindle the soured relationships
>>(helping Saddam use WMDs against Iran, BTW, while the Reagan government
>>was helping Saddam cover up that he'd gassed Kurds).
>>
>>Cue the next stage of the plan: convince the Saudis that Saddam was
>>gonna invade them next. Result: US got to set up bases in the country
>>that contains TWO of Islam's holiest places. Fall-out: this pissed off
>>Osama Bin Laden, and we know what happened next.
>>
>>And remember the "nurse" who testified that Iraqi soldiers were killing
>>babies? 41 is just the same as 43: using lies to start a war, using
>>hype to pretend the enemy is a dangerous opponent. Iraq had just come
>>out of a bloody ten year war with Iran, had a devastated economy, had
>>debts all over the place and couldn't buy new arms, and this was
>>supposed to be a dangerous enemy? Nevertheless, that didn't stop US
>>troops from bombing FLEEING soldiers and citizens, images that US
>>networks of course censored.
>>
>>--
>>BVH
>>
>
>
> Cue response from conservative poster calling you hysterical......
Don't you mean "hysterical poster calling himself conservative..."?
arg...@priest.com
On 7-Dec-2006, "Kyle" <kyle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> He also may have believed that if Jeb Bush (not Dubya)
> had been president, none of this mess would exist.
I think you're right on that one but on other things, social and legal, they
think alike.
arg...@priest.com
On 7-Dec-2006, fred_h...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Truth is presidents have little control over the economy.
Yes, they have little control but, some of their policies do have effects.
jjj_...@hotmail.com
gaffo wrote:
> I always like Sr, though did not vote for him due to his neglect of
> domestic policy (i.e. economy of 92). his foreign policy remains the
>
> now we know "goingin to bagdad" WAS A BAD IDEA and Sr. was correct in
> not going in.
>
> fuck out after it is done.
a delay in releasing the Iranian hostages (still just a theory iirc).
But I still like his performance overall, much more moderate than
Reagan. Very calm and reserved as the Cold War ran down, just the way
to handle things. Got other countries to pay for the bulk of the Gulf
War and the Russians were actually on our side, amazing compared to a
decade earlier. Even my liberal college professor back then said,
"This is the first time the UN is actually working like it's supposed
to."
Some economists even say Sr's tax increase started the ball rolling for
the boom during the Clinton years (that may be a stretch). If nothing
else, he resigned his NRA membership in protest.
William December Starr
Agent Smith <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> said:
> arg...@priest.com wrote in
> news:SVXdh.38152$xw1....@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
>
>> Unfortunately, there wasn't much that could be done at the time,
>> other than shock treatments. Not a very good choice.
>
> You certainly don't want your president going through that, but
> then you also don't want your country going through Watergate.
In retrospect, seeing how it turned out, I'm kind of happy that the
United States _did_ go through Watergate. It taught us a lot of
valuable lessons.
--
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
William December Starr
"..andnothingbut" <thetruth@xohelpme..> said:
> Was it Mondale, or McGovern whom the republicans bashed LIKE ALL
> HELL when he cried while addressing the REPUBLISCUM attack on his
> family?
You're probably thinking of Ed Muskie. Mind you, there was the
mini-storm of "REAL men don't cry!" from a few of the angels of the
right -- either Coulter herself or one of her clones -- after Dan
Rather broke down momentarily during his appearance on David
Letterman's show a week or so after 9/11. (The best response to
_that_ bit of idiocy was when some sane political commentator, I
forget who, said "Jesus wept.")
-- wds
Agent Smith
@panix2.panix.com:
What lessons did it teach us besides "It's not the crime; it's the cover
up."?
William December Starr
Agent Smith <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> said:
> wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in
> news:eld2t5$q0q$1 @panix2.panix.com:
>
>> In retrospect, seeing how it turned out, I'm kind of happy that the
>> United States _did_ go through Watergate. It taught us a lot of
>> valuable lessons.
>
> What lessons did it teach us besides "It's not the crime; it's the
> cover up."?
o Highly respected authority figures -- especially ones who favor
"law and order" -- can have feet of shit. Watch out for them.
o Just because someone won an election, even in a landslide, that
shouldn't give them a free pass when they do bad things.
o Sometimes the good guys do win.
o "But he's the PRESIDENT!!!" excuses very little.
o "But that could cause a CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS and PARALYZE THE
NATION!!" are arguments best rebutted with "If so, so what?"
o People who issue presidential pardons to people like the
aforementioned dipshit authority figfures "for the good of the
nation" stand a good chance of being be justly and properly
rewarded for it in their next election.
And those are just the ones I can think of at this instant.
Victor Velazquez
news:Xns9893D4A18A42Fag...@207.115.17.102...
During those hazy, crazy days of the Cold War, the American Presidency had
acquired an unearned patina of infallibility (gotta teach those kids some
nationalism...stat!). Nixon's vulgar humanity was a breath of fresh air,
lofting those particular sacred cows to the heavens from whence they came.
At least until 9/11.
Agent Smith
@panix2.panix.com:
I'm agree with the last two, but the first four lessons were learned in
the 19th century. Besides the intoxication of power, radical
conservatives' biggest flaw is the inability to learn the lessons of
history. I can't imagine why people think they're dumb. :(
Agent Smith
news:Wo6dneCtMNXth-fY...@comcast.com:
> During those hazy, crazy days of the Cold War, the American Presidency
> had acquired an unearned patina of infallibility
Are you referring to the Korean War, Gary Powers of The Bay of Pigs?
mc
humbubba wrote:
> Maybe he's getting ready to admit he shot JFK.
or JR.
mc
gaffo
>
> Agent Smith wrote:
> > The only reason George the First didn't win a second term was
> > because Perot split the Republican vote in '92. If Perot hadn't
> > run, Bush would have had 2 terms, and Clinton may not have had any.
> > Not that Clinton was a bad president, but Junior will go down in
> > history as a screw up of the first magnitude, like Nixon and LBJ.
>
>
> Nixon will be somewhat saved in history from being a total screw-up
> because of his success in foreign policy (China in particular).
>
> LBJ will be somewhat saved in history from being a total screw-up
> because of his success in domestic policy (Equal Rights in
> particular).
>
> W. Bush will just go down in history as a fucking, total screw-up.
>
> No matter how delusional some right-wing extremists and neocons still
> are even now, Time will always be against W. Bush -- and the clock has
> been ticking for some years now.
>
> -Tom Sr.
sadly there are still many of those neocon loons left: go here to read
thier ravings:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/
the hysteria and histrionic "sky is falling" "terrorists under my bed"
rants are priceless.
--
gaffo
> arg...@priest.com wrote in
> news:SVXdh.38152$xw1....@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
>
> >
> > On 6-Dec-2006, Agent Smith
> > <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The only reason George the First didn't win a second term was
> because >> Perot split the Republican vote in '92. If Perot hadn't
> run, Bush >> would have had 2 terms, and Clinton may not have had
> any. Not that >> Clinton was a bad president, but Junior will go
> down in history as a >> screw up of the first magnitude, like Nixon
> and LBJ.
> >
> > Please! Don't even mention Nixon in the same breath as W!
>
> > At least Nixon had a brain.
>
> Well, I can't deny that, but it begs the question of whom is more
> evil - a powerful imbecil who screws up and costs men their lives, or
> a powerful, mentally ill, brilliant man who makes mistakes that cost
> people their lives.
>
> > W makes Nixon look like a saint and genius.
>
> Yes on '2' and no on '1'. During Nixon's reign, more men died in
> Vietnam than the entire Iraq War. Again, I think that puts the
> greater fault onto Nixon.
>
> The counter argument is, of course, that America had never been in a
> losing war, and without a historical precend to learn from, Vietnam
> is more 'forgivable'.
>
> I suspect that, if this question were thrown open to discussion in a
> large, university, pilosophy class, no consensus would ever be
> reached. I tend to put the intelligent higher on the list of evil,
> because their intelligengce gives them greater responsibilities.
>
> > Nixon's problem was completely medical. He was a manic depressive.
>
> This is surprising to me, but I looked it up, and apparently it's
> true. I'm curious to know how this was figured out; who made the
> diagnosis and how? All I ever knew about Nixon's state of mind is
> that he was paranoid, which I've never heard associated with
> bipolarity.
>
> > Unfortunately, there wasn't much that could be done at the time,
> > other than shock treatments. Not a very good choice.
>
> You certainly don't want your president going through that, but then
> you also don't want your country going through Watergate. My dad was
> an MD, and he was fascinated by the historical importance of
> presidential medical problems.
>
> Kennedy was nearly crippled by Addison's disease, and by the
> cortisone that they used to treat it. Lincoln had a neurological
> condition whose name I forget, but which gave him crippling
> headaches. The evidence is apparently visible in that famous
> photographic portrait of him, because one of his eyelids clearly
> doesn't open as far as the other.
>
> I believe that Lincoln also had bouts of depression, due to the death
> of his son and the stresses of the war, but apparently he wasn't
> chroncially depressed. Mary Kennedy was, and I think that her
> depression eventually became a depressive psychosis. She died nearly
> a recluse in her apartment, which I don't think she left for several
> years, before the end.
>
> And of course, FDR was crippled.
Garfield had a bullet problem as did McKinly(sp)
Wilson had a severe stroke
Harding? had a coronary and died
Eisenhower had several coronaries, but did not die.
Taft had wieght problems
--
gaffo
>
> gaffo wrote:
> > I always like Sr, though did not vote for him due to his neglect of
> > domestic policy (i.e. economy of 92). his foreign policy remains the
> > best in 50 yrs however.
>
> Bwahahahaha. See below for some FACTS you ignored.
>
> > now we know "goingin to bagdad" WAS A BAD IDEA and Sr. was correct
> > in not going in.
>
> He wanted to,
Lie - he repeatedly stated publically that he was enforcing the UN
mandate of removing Iraq from Kuwait. period.
once that was done the mission was over. Sr had never had any intention
of going in to take Iraq.
you just made that up sonny.
> Cue the next stage of the plan: convince the Saudis that Saddam was
> gonna invade them next. Result: US got to set up bases in the country
> that contains TWO of Islam's holiest places. Fall-out: this pissed off
> Osama Bin Laden, and we know what happened next.
Iraq had become a legitimate threat to the Saudis.
> And remember the "nurse" who testified that Iraqi soldiers were
> killing babies? 41 is just the same as 43: using lies to start a war,
> using hype to pretend the enemy is a dangerous opponent.
yes this is true - that was a sham.
the dead men hanging from street lamps were not scarcrows however. nor
were the 600 POWs Iraq never returned - theones that remain missing and
are presumed executed.
> Iraq had
> just come out of a bloody ten year war with Iran, had a devastated
> economy, had debts all over the place and couldn't buy new arms, and
> this was supposed to be a dangerous enemy?
It was less about him being "dangerous" and much more about him not
playing nice and by the rules of International Law.
Rulers simply don't and cannot willy-nilly go around invading other
soveriegn Nations - not without getting a smackdown from the
international community.
Saddam was taken on not because of the threat he posed but more to set
an example to others to not invade your neighbors. it is illegal to do
so and we (i.e. the UN) will setup a coalition to bomb you back to your
own borders if not beyond.
> Nevertheless, that didn't
> stop US troops from bombing FLEEING soldiers and citizens, images
> that US networks of course censored.
yes "highway to Hell."
war is hell, and it is legal under the Rules of War to continue to
fight armies in retreat.
Retreat is not surrender.
Had those men been surrendering - then you'd have a point and a
position to claim war crimes.
but since they were not surrendering, but rather retreating - you don't.
--
gaffo
>
> gaffo wrote:
> >
> > I always like Sr, though did not vote for him due to his neglect of
> > domestic policy (i.e. economy of 92). ,....
> .
>
> If Clinton had run a third term (not possible but just pretend) would
> you have voted NAY due to the recession/dot-com crash of 2000?
THAT is an excellent question!!
and yes, I just might at that. not thought of it to be honest.
> Truth is presidents have little control over the economy. Blaming
> them for the economy is as false as blaming them for a rash of
> hurricanes.
I know that Sir. but what pissed me off about Sr was that he didn't
even APPEAR to try.
and i agree, Clinton could no more take credit for the economy
(probably at the right time/place). but HE APPEARED TO TAKE AN INTEREST
AND DABLED IN DOMESTIC STUFF.
Sir was more of a "oh well, who cares about the economy" type.
- so PERCEPTION IS IMPORTANT. and THAT is why Sr lost (and why so many
Republicans in fact when the economy is not doing well).
All they gotta do is LOOK like they are doing something!! At is all Sr
had to do!
But hey, I've really gotta to loathe the Republicans since the
Neocon-evangelicals took them over - so if they remain clueless about
the perception of taking an active role in helping the economy when it
is poor, fine by me - we will just get a democrat in there instead (and
he will have thecommon sense to LOOK like he is going something to help
the economy).
its called cheerleading basically - and yes it is important from a
pyschological standing.
--
gaffo
> Some economists even say Sr's tax increase started the ball rolling
> for the boom during the Clinton years (that may be a stretch). If
> nothing else, he resigned his NRA membership in protest.
I remember that now, forget why.
do you remember why he did this? - school shootings?
--
Victor Velazquez
All of the above (and then some). It takes a while for an educational
system to shift gears.
arg...@priest.com
On 9-Dec-2006, "gaffo" <ga...@usenet.net> wrote:
> I know that Sir. but what pissed me off about Sr was that he didn't
> even APPEAR to try.
I always said that if GHW had just paid the economy lip-service Clinton may
have never won.
Stinky
majcm wrote:
> "CliffB" <fl...@gosympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:1165450231.3...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/politics/2006/12/05/sot.hw.bush.crying.wtxl
> >
> > WTH happened? Ole 41 getting on with his second childhood or something?
> >
> for Jeb. I think it's sweet and shows a human side to a politician who I
> didn't like at ALL when he ran against Clinton (didn't like Clinton either,
> voted Perot...I know, dumb move) but in the last 4-5 years I've come to
> REALLY like 41.
"Sweet" from a man who sacrificed the Shiites by telling them to rise
up against Saddam and then not supporting them.
I guess Hitler loved dogs, so I guess even the worst of what humanity
has to offer is capable of sentiment and love.
jjj_...@hotmail.com
rifle designed for penetrating bullet-proof vests and the NRA was
strongly protesting, even though no one should need such hardware for a
valid reason.
If I might have any details wrong, feel free to correct me someone.
trippy
CliffB took the hamburger meat, threw it on the grill, and I said "Oh
Wow"...
> http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/politics/2006/12/05/sot.hw.bush.crying.wtxl
>
> WTH happened? Ole 41 getting on with his second childhood or something?
>
>
He choked on the word 'honorable'. Very telling.
--
trippy
mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM
NP: "The American Way" -- Sacred Reich
"Now, technology's getting better all the time and that's fine,
but most of the time all you need is a stick of gum, a pocketknife,
and a smile."
-- Robert Redford "Spy Game"