Leonard Bernstein, Eleanor Roosevelt, Ashley MacIssac
T. E. Lawrence, Liberace, Rick Bébout
Walt Whitman, Scott Alexander, Lily Tomlin and Jane Wagner
Willa Cather, Alex Munter, Don Gautier
Ed Wood, Amanda Bearse, Gertrude Stein and Alice B. Toklas
Father Malcolm Boyd, Nancy Walker and Penelope Tzougros, Michelangelo
k. d. laing, Michael Lynch, Peter Illyich Tchaikovsky
James Baldwin, Elton John, Brian Wilson
Jane Rule and Helen Sonthoff, Bessie Smith, Jim Henson
Ellen DeGeneres and Anne Heche, Scott Thompson, Freddie Mercury
Blaine Marchand, Edna St. Vincent Millay, Keith Norton
Richard Monette, Mitchell Anderson, Roch Voisine
Brian Orser, Réal Ménard, Lea DeLaria
Chastity Bono, Andrew Sullivan, Rudy Galindo
Armistead Maupin and Terry Anderson, Susie Bright, Chris Ambidge
Virginia Woolf, Cole Porter, Montgomery Clift
Barney Frank, Melissa Etheridge, Ru Paul
Dennis Rodman, Allan Turing, David Bowie
Nicholas Snow, Harvey Milk, Michael Goff
Ed Jackson, Barry Deeprose, Laura Davis
Graham Jackson, Ian Young, E. F. Benson
Vita Sackville-West and Violet Trefusis, Andrew Hodges
Barbara Gittings and Kay Lahusen, Frank Kameny
Rock Hudson, E. M. Forster, Emily Dickinson
Randy Shilts, David Kopay, Larry Kramer
Errol Flynn, Rosie O'Donnnell, William Blake
Rik Isensee, John Lauritsen, Steve Gunderson and Rob Morris
John Mahoney, William Wallace, the Indigo Girls
Andy Quan, Rainer Werner Fassbinder, Oleg Ovdeenko
Adir Steiner and Colonel Doron Meisel, Stephen Coote
Bjoern Skolander, Ronald Goldman, Paul Verlaine and Arthur Rimbaud
Urvashi Vaid, Alexander the Great, Doug Wilson
Jonathan Katz, James Steakley, Lawrence Aronovitch
Michael Riordon, Sir John Gielgud, David Hockney
Greg Louganis, Chad Allen, Canaan Banana
Maruja Torres, Eduardo Medicutti, Jordi Petit
Pedro J. Macho, Tom Warner, Malcolm Forbes
Michelangelo Signorile, Scott Bidstrup, Richard Mohr
Richard Silver, Steven Baratz, Gaëtan Charlebois
David Migicovsky, Joe Clark, Vlad Cohen
Dave Callander, Edward King, Robert Cockburn
Kevyn Jacobs, Jase Pittman-Wells, Alan Brown
Tony Begbie, Steve Schalchlin, Bruce Whealton
Patrick C. Flumignan, David Hua, John Fisher
Les McAfee, Christopher Isherwood and Don Bachardy, Thomas Mann
Evelyn Waugh, Bertolt Brecht, Dr. Magnus Hirshfeld
J. Edgar Hoover, Paul Halsall, Bob Hay
Michael Spires, Bella Abzug, Robert Mapplethorpe
John Rechy, Calvin Klein, Cecil Rhodes
Rudolf Nureyev, Gore Vidal, Anthony Perkins
James Dean, Cary Grant, Danny La Rue
W. Somerset Maugham, Quentin Crisp, Jean Genet
Edward II of England, Divine, Boy George
Greta Garbo, Edith Head, Tyrone Power
Pet Shop Boys, Bob Paris, Ernst Rohm
Martina Navratilova, Stephen Sondheim, Leonardo da Vinci
Sir Laurence Olivier, Cole Porter, Christian Dior
Tennessee Williams, Errol Flynn, Francis Bacon
Christopher Marlowe, Noel Coward, Harvey Fierstein
Andy Warhol, Derek Jarman, Stephen Fry
Lytton Strachey, Truman Capote, Jack Kerouac
Andre Gide, Maynard Keynes, Sappho
Frederick the Great, Richard the Lionheart, Pope Sixtus IV
Julius III, James I, John Milton, Virgil
Emperor Hadrian, Peter the Great, Stephen Spender
Sandra Bernhard, Edward Lear, Gus Van Sant
William Burroughs, Allen Ginsberg, Lou Reed
Dick Sargent, Pedro Almodovar, Graham Chapman
Stuart Challender, J. M. Barrie, Plato and Aristotle
Paul O'Grady, Laurie Anderson, Joe Orton
Joe Jackson, Patrick White, Marc Almond
Jann Wenner, Holly Johnson, Jimmy Somerville
Julian Clary, Edmund White, Morrisey
Horatio Alger, Keith Haring, Dusty Springfield
Hans Christian Anderson, Marlene Dietrich, Pier Paolo Pasolini
Peter Allen, Lord Byron, Jean-Paul Gaultier
William Shakespeare, John Waters, Bryon Palmer and Brian Berezowski
Patricia Nell Warren, Michael Verney-Elliott, Rita Mae Brown
Colonel Margarethe Cammermeyer, Kay Hinton, Kevin Muyhuddin
Steve Kelso, Brian Linehan, David Pepper
Aeyal Gross, Timothy Ross Wilson, Amparo Jiminez
Nayieli Fuentes, Troy Johnson, Steffen Jensen
Jim McClure, Oxana Bocharnikova, Terry Perkins
Anya Palmer, Ian Greer and Clive Ferreira, Terry Sweet and Albert Preel
John Boswell, Bruce Bawer, Daniel Mendelsohn
Bernard Hauken, Pedro Zamora, Philip Hannan
Luciana Kerner, Luisa Peralta, Laura Eiven
Fabiana Tron, Brad Berg and Brian Rolfes, Rick Cirillo
Cory Jay Liebmann, Jamie Lynn Bolick, Martin B. Duberman
Martha Vicinus, George Chauncey Jr., Leslie Feinberg and Minnie Bruce Pratt
Gloria Estefan, Karla Jay, Joyce Millman
Al Kielwasser, Brian Quintana, Billy DeFrank
Paul Oscar, Agust Smari Beaumont, Alessio De Giorgi
Sergey Polev, Miguel Angel Sánchez, Peter Norman
William Courson, Volker Kurze, Bob Summersgill
Antonio Capobianco, Michael Flatley, Marlon Brando
Randy Keats, Tom Barnes, Francisco Jose Luis Robles Manning
Angel Bliznachki, Manuel Campagna, Christopher Tsakalos
Rabbi Elizabeth Sarah, Sir Michael Hirst, Hannele Lehtikuusi
Mexico's SuperGay, Elizabeth Schmitz, Angela Mason
Patty de los Angeles Castillo Oleveira, Yves Nya Ngatchou, Robert Starkey
Carole Migden, Vito Russo, Susan Leal
Leslie Katz, Mark Leno, James Hormel
Suzanne Moore, Troy Aikman, Randolfe Wicker
Ann Northrup, Dan Perreten, John F. Crowe
Carla Moniz, Janice MacGillivray, Michel Foucault
Kevin Manion, Eric Fromentot, Toby Johnson and Kip Dollar
Genildo Santana, Andre Goncalves, Felipe de Souza
Roberta Close, Paulo Fernandes, Raimundo Pereira
Veriano Terto Jr, Manuel Ballesteros, Wilson Cruz
Alex Damien and George DeCarlo, Kevin Spacey, Leonardo DiCaprio
John Travolta, Calvin Klone, Terrance McNally
Paul Rudnick, Scott O'Hara, Christopher Wittke
Kate Clinton, Lea Delaria, Laird Delorio
John Hunt, Tom Ammiano, Troy D. Perry
David MacDonald, Patria Jimenez, Nayeli Fuentes Vidal
Jamie Nabozny, Christopher Tsakalos, Bill Graham
USAF Captain Craig Button, George H. Anderson Jr, Chris Smith
Nick Toonen, Julie Dorf, Rick Garcia
the Reverend Richard Kirker, Get Ready!, Richard Stern
Slawek Starosta, Roger Muller and Michael Stock
Steve Howard, Antony Sher, Deborah Glick
Andy Warhol, Patricia Duncker, Zhang Yuan
Sharon Bottoms, Sir Michael Hirst, Brian O'Leary Bennett
Brian Bond, Tom Ammiano, Ann Northrop
Robert Bray, Ken Lovering, Kerry Lobel
Sandip Roy, James Fraser, Lily Savage
Jay Deacon, Alun Michael, PC Darren Bradshaw
P. A. MagLochlainn, Bronte Morris, Paul Canning
Rodney Junga, Tony Cornish, Alejandra Sarda
Linnar Priimaegi, Paulo Freire, Davide Baselli
Ansel Adams, Ben Bradshaw, Stephen Twigg
Pierre Gandonniere, the Reverend Richard Kirker, Jennifer Vanasco
the Reverend Mel White and Gary Nixon, Mark Watson and Ander da Silva
Christian Hernandez, Christine Max, Demet Demir, Toller Cranston
Felipa de Souza, Sister Namibia Collective, Genc Xhelaj
Leonardo Fernandez, Ugur Alkapar, Stephano Armanino
Tennessee Williams, Dmitri Kuzmin and Dmitri Belyakov
Emil Tode, Dmitri Kuzmin and Dmitri Belyakov
Ben Bradshaw & Neal Dalgleish, Chris Galley, Wallis Thornton
Duncan Hothersall, Tony Whitehead, Nigel Wrench
Guy Burgess, Sir Anthony Blunt, Kieran Rose
Nicole Ramirez Murray, Edmund White, Billie Jean King
John Waters, Claudia Allen, Kathy Najimy
Harry Hay, Calixa Lavallee, Danny Pintauro
Joan M. Garry, John McCarthy, Lisa Grant and Jill Percey
Mark Watson, Richard Kirker, Jeanette Smith
John Beckett, Duncan Lustig-Prean, Graeme Grady
Kyle Rae, Martina Navratilova, Scott O'Hara
David Leavitt, Andy Bell, Paul Varnell
Gianni Versace and Antonio D'Amico, Andrew Cunanan, David Madson
Jeffrey Trail, Stan Baker and Peter Harrigan, Nina Beck and Stacy Jolles
Lois Farnham and Holly Puterbaugh, Tim Stevenson, Barbara Finlay
Chad Allen, Mitchell Anderson, Michael Jeter
Michael Kearns, Greg Louganis, Tim Maculan
Steve Tyler, Michael Ralph, Bruce Vilanch
Bob Brown, Delfino Martinez Galvez, Kathy Najimy
Jason Gould, Daniel Harris, Robert Bray
Alison Bechdel, Giz Watson, Murray Warren
David Duchovny, Roma Downer, Gordon McMaster
Michelle Myers, Melinda "Mindy" Pengel, Malcolm Forbes
Patria Jimenez, Erica Videla, Martin Fitzpatrick and John Thompson
Steve Loomis, Ross Reid, Jim Kolbe
Michael Jeter, Lee Miglin, Christine Quinn
Paul Monette, Jeffrey Trail, Lorraine Greaves
Margaret Buist, Rafael Freda and Eduardo Vazquez, Dorothy McRae-McMahon
Derek Fisher, David Lynch, Nelson Asu
Chris Morris, Rachel Smith, Lisa Power
Paul Clements, Adam Jeanes, Martin Fitzpatrick
Euan Sutherland, Joan M. Garry, Dan Savage
Lance Spurr, Rupert Everett, Andy Bell
Chris Markham, Pratibha Parmar, Chris Morris
Kevan Botha, Zackie Achmat, Franco Grillini
Jorge Quevas, John Waters, Harvey Fierstein
Eddie Murphy, Gip Plaster
Rudy Galindo, Rupert Everett, Marga Gomezc
Frances Fitzgerald, Juliet Ann Joslin and Jennifer Daphne Rowan
Sarah Jane Anderson and Samantha Jane Court
Cynthia Lynn Friedman and Sherry Barone, Carole Etzler Eagleheart
Brian Grieg, Eva Dahlgren and Efva Attling
Dan Butler, Sean Sasser, Goethe
Jacob Orozco, Danny Vadasz, Graham Carbery
Darren Ray, Angela Eagle, Antonio D'Amico
Rafael Freda, Lindsay Quilter and Margaret Pearl
Perry Davis, Robbie Kirkland, Gary Wu
Vito Russo, Leslie Raymer, Linda Birner
Bruce Bawer, Daniel Harris, Dan Perreten
Martin Delaney, Michael Warner, Reverend Dorothy McRae-McMahon
Paul Clements, Dave Kopay, Paul Varnell
Graham Norton, Virginia Apuzzo, Oscar Mercado
Cristian Cravello, Rafael Freda, Pedro Almodovar
Jean Paul Gaultier, Balazs Palfi, Percival Cedana
Valery Laftchiyski, Nikolai Zhorov Georgiev, Wayne Hoffman
Michael Frederickson, Liz Tracey, James N. Birkitt, Jr
Euan Sutherland, Chris Morris, Dominic d'Angelo
Paul Ivison, the Reverend Lynn Adair Ungar and Kelsey Anne Hartman
the Reverend Linda Northcraft, Friedrich-Paul von Groszheim
Kurt von Ruffin, Paul Gerhard Vogel, John Perry Ryan
Ginny Apuzzo, Karen Tramontano, John Berry
Alfred Leslie Rowse, Jo Daly, the Reverend Brent Hawkes
Dennis Hurley, Murray Haigh, Maria Miho Hiramatsu
William Garcia, Mark Robinson, Rabbi Donald Goor
Gareth Kirkby, Tim Stevenson, Cristian Cravello
Steffen Jensen, Ken Thomassen, Peter Bryld
Lisbeth Andersen, Soeren Baatrup, Chris Morris
Goncalo Diniz, Alan Reekie, Michael Moestrup
Nancy Rosenberg and Margaret Evans, Wendy Weaver
Jon Holden and Michael Galluccio, Kevin Jennings
Valerie Taylor, Emily Ballou, Bev Lange
Wendy Weaver, Ruth Ramos, Oscar Ugarteche
Kevin Greening, Ben Bradshaw, Eva Ogenborg
Manuel Ornelas Quintero, Patria Jimenez, Charles de Berry
Sharon Silverstein and Annette Friskopp, John Ferguson, Ron Buckmire
Dr. Susan Love, Peter Tatchell, Roger Klorese
Jon-Henri Damski, Delwin Vriend, Robin Shahar
Benjamin Britain, Philip Brett, the Reverend Peter Gomes
Jay Fisette, David Leavitt, Bonnie Bewley and Michelle Crawford
Karin Jaffie, Don Romesburg, William Garcia
David Olson, Gustavo Alvarez Gardeazabal, Haakan Andersson
Gatis Bugoveckis, Joop de Graaf and Willem Coles, Ben Bradshaw
Angela Mason, Axel Landhal Madsen, Alicia Svigals
Virginia Apuzzo, Jeff Epperly, Chris Kehoe
Predrag Bosnjakovski, David Brock, Hans Christian Andersen
Lars Luttich, Jim Kepner, Siri Sunde
Joan M. Garry, Emma Thompson, Sean Penn
David Geffen, Paul van Yperen, Hans Van Velde
Stevie Clayton, Andrei Maimulakhin, Leonid Nefedovich
Marion Oprel, Kurt Krickler, Marga Gomez
Didier Verleyen, Kurt Krickler, Stephen Sondheim
Don Romesburg, Kerry Lobel, Evan Wolfson
Lee Plotkin, David Geffen, Monique Brumby
Bob Brown, Molly Meldrum, Ian Roberts
Mark Stanley, Lisa Marie Viziniari, Leon Van Schalk
Tim Stevenson, Leonardo Pini, Oscar Arcas
Morris Beily, David Catania, Rich Tafel
Keith Goddard, Holly Near, Bayard Rustin
Bev Lange, Tom Duane, Walter B. Schubert
Jeffrey Seiff, Jon Holden and Michael Galluccio, Margarita Sánchez de León
Gatis Bugoveckis, Holly Near, Alan J. Mayer
Suzanne Westenhoefer, Eric Rofes, Suzanne Griffel
William Waybourn, Rick Ellsasser, Chad Johnson
Ray Mackereth, Dorothy Allison, Mary Ward
Chuck Carpenter, Kevyn Aucoin, Robin Shahar
Pratibha Parmar, Craig Lucas, Peggy Shaw
Jewelle Gomez, Charles Busch, Lesléa Newman
Mark Doty, Mike Reed, Brian Hodder
L. A. Ries, Mark Freamo, Bert Schuur
Keith Goddard, Holly Near, Phillip and Toshav Storrs
Fannie Flagg, Sandy Thurman, John Fall
Keith Griffith, Sheila James Kuehl, Tony Kushner
Kerry Lobel, Perry Brass, Trevor Hailey
David Brock, Guillermo Murillo, Shu Yu-Shen, Thomas Cristopher Yu
Alex Au, Rudy Galindo, Eric Michael Gillet
W. H. Auden, Stephen Spender, Christopher Isherwood
Marivic Bamba, Tom Christopher and Marty Asher, Tim McViegh
Dan Savage, Lucious Jackson, Ferron
Craig Karpel, Sir Michael Tippett, Dean X. Johnson
Everett Austin, Jason Heffner, Cathy Renna
Alfredo Ormando, Svend Robinson and Max Riveron, Terry Connell
Norman Williams, Jonathan Moore, Sydney Levy
Irma van Praag and Anna Kreuger, Gabriel Presnac and Radu Vasiliu
Jeri Laber, Scott Long, Laszlo Laner
Hezi Koka, Menachem Shizaf, Leonid Shvedov and Vyacheslav Karpukhin
Astride Indricane and Birgitia Bohvinger, William Thorsell
Ali Sharifi, Michael Wigglesworth, Craig Davidson and Mike Valentini
Kevin Jennings, Martin Duberman, Keith Boykin
Alan Gilmour, Thomas Brown, Tom Rielly
Jon Huggett, Pam Cuthbert, Tony Valenzuela
Steven Maynard, Cybill Shepherd, Henk Krol
Thom Fitzgerald, Johnnie Phelps and Grace Bukowski, ndre Labarrere
Jolande Langemaat and Beverley-Ann Myburgh
Olivier Razemon, Scott Long, Jeri Laber
Juan Antonio Alonso, Mazibuko Kanyiso Jara, , Anthony Blount
Steven Sabin and Karl von Uhl, Guy Burgess, Kevin Poloncarz
Torben Lund and Claus Lautrup, Tim Scott, Tove Jansson
Sugar Lee Hooper and Andrea van der Kaap
the Reverend David Gunton, the Reverend Philip Speranza
--
David Migicovsky, d m i g i c o v at a r a c n e t dot n e t
>Nancy Walker and Penelope Tzougros
Nancy Walker? Rhoda's mom? And who's this Penelope person?
>Brian Wilson
Of the Beach Boys? Oh, come on.
>Jim Henson
Don't believe it for a second.
>Dennis Rodman
Doesn't one have to actually have sex with a member of the same gender
(or self-identify as gay) to be gay these days?
>the Indigo Girls
All of them?
>Canaan Banana
I don't recognize half the names on this list, but this one is just
too bizarre to let pass without comment.
>David Migicovsky
Gee, I don't think he could *possibly* be gay, do you? I mean,
doesn't he like Diet Coke or something?
>Joe Clark
The baseball bat wielding inner-city high school principal?
>Sir Laurence Olivier
Bi, not gay.
>Jack Kerouac
Again, bi, not gay.
>Laurie Anderson
She's butch, but she likes sleeping with men. Whether she's slept
with women too, I have no idea.
>Gloria Estefan
Since when?
>Michael Flatley
Please, no, say not so.
>Marlon Brando
Bi at best. His famous quote is, "I was homosexual once, but it
didn't work out." Then again, there is that photo of him blowing
someone, reportedly Wally Cox.
>Mexico's SuperGay
???
>Calvin Klone
Typo, or mockery?
>Kathy Najimy
Absolutely incorrect. The famous lesbian of that wonderful writing
and performing partnership is Mo Gaffney.
>David Duchovny
Ha! Het sex addict.
>Roma Downer
Does he mean Roma Downey, of "Touched by an Angel"? Who sez?
>David Lynch
Extremely heterosexual, if not a little twisted.
>Emma Thompson, Sean Penn
Someone's been watching too much "Ellen."
Craig
Re famous fags. I must really be stupid, ignorant, or both.
90% of the names listed I am not familiar with. The other
10% are recognizable; however, not all those mentioned are
homosexual; some are bisexual, some are straight.
No idea who Penelope is, but you know, come to think of it, was Nancy Walker
married? I know she was a close friend of Montgomery Clift's. However, there
could easily be another Nancy Walker who has achieved some sort of fame. The
requirements for the list aren't that high.
>
>>Jim Henson
>
>Don't believe it for a second.
Me neither. But yesterday while watching the WB I did wonder if Michigan J.
Frog and Kermit the Frog are related, or if all frogs are named Frog.
>
>>Dennis Rodman
>
>Doesn't one have to actually have sex with a member of the same gender
>(or self-identify as gay) to be gay these days?
I'm glad you stuck in the second option.
>
>
>I don't recognize half the names on this list, but this one is just
>too bizarre to let pass without comment.
A fair number of them are Canadian activists, politicians, etc. These are
them. I'll assume your knowledge of the non-Canadians is on a similar level
to mine.
Ashley MacIsaac, Rick Bébout, k. d. lang, Michael Lynch,
Jane Rule and Helen Sonthoff, Scott Thompson, Keith Norton
Roch Voisine, Brian Orser, Réal Ménard, Chris Ambidge
Ed Jackson, Graham Jackson, Ian Young, Doug Wilson
Lawrence Aronovitch, Michael Riordon, Tom Warner, Gaëtan Charlebois
Joe Clark, Vlad Cohen, John Fisher
Brian Linehan, Timothy Ross Wilson, Toller Cranston, Calixa Lavallee
Kyle Rae, the Reverend Brent Hawkes, Svend Robinson and Max Riveron
William Thorsell, Thom Fitzgerald
>
>>Joe Clark
>
>The baseball bat wielding inner-city high school principal?
That's a new one for him, I bet. Most people here think of the 9-month prime
minister. It's Toronto-based queer journalist Joe Clark though. At least, so
I assume.
>
>>Gloria Estefan
>
>Since when?
Face it. The rythm is gonna get ya eventually.
>
>>Michael Flatley
>
>Please, no, say not so.
"No," he said flatly.
>
>>Marlon Brando
>
>Bi at best. His famous quote is, "I was homosexual once, but it
>didn't work out." Then again, there is that photo of him blowing
>someone, reportedly Wally Cox.
Then again, there's also the kiss with Larry King. No wonder it didn't work.
>
>>Mexico's SuperGay
>
>???
I think this was a guy who ran for public office of some sort (Mayor or for
their equivalent of MP)
>
>>Calvin Klone
>
>Typo, or mockery?
>
Not sure. Klein was listed elsewhere. There were a couple of other typos in
there, OTOH, that isn't an easy one to make.
>>Kathy Najimy
>
>Absolutely incorrect. The famous lesbian of that wonderful writing
>and performing partnership is Mo Gaffney.
>
>
>>Roma Downer
>
>Does he mean Roma Downey, of "Touched by an Angel"? Who sez?
Damned if I know. But wouldn't it be ultra-juicy?
Craig Smith <smith...@mindspring.com> wrote...
> Amazing number of repetitions on this sorry list, aren't there.
People who are listed more than once are just really, REALLY gay.
> A few that jumped out at me:
<various snips here and there>
>Canaan Banana
>
> I don't recognize half the names on this list, but this one is just
> too bizarre to let pass without comment.
Even better, it's the Reverend Canaan Banana. Former president of Zimbabwe.
Put on trial recently for forcing a male subordinate to have sex with him.
And won't Chad Allen be proud he's on this incredibly bizarre list right
next to him.
> >Joe Clark
>
> The baseball bat wielding inner-city high school principal?
Who cares? There undoubtedly is someone called Joe Clark who is gay. I'd
even be willing to bet there are several.
> >Mexico's SuperGay
>
> ???
A nutty gay rights activist from Mexico City who wears some self-made
superhero costume.
What I want to know is: are there really famous gay people called Kip
Dollar and Gip Plaster?
--
To reply be email: t o m DOT h e n s AT i n a m e DOT c o m
EEEAAAAAGGGGHHHHH! No! No... Ohhhhh the IMAGE...! (clutching at heart
and collapsing onto the chaise longue) Ohgodohgodohgodohgod....
Jesus CHRIST, Man, don't DO that without warning us first! I'll be in
therapy for another two years just processing THAT sense engram! UGH!
I need a drink!
Swan
Now if you said Wally Cox blowing Marlon Brando....I'd buy it, but the other
way around....hard to picture.
Billie.....troubled by early potty-training....
Did you know that Wally Cox was also an avid bodybuilder and apparently had
a killer body? So it's understandable the other way around -- get as far
from the face as possible.