Sandler sidekick Peter Segal to captain "Shazam!" movie
edonline
Sandler sidekick to captain "Shazam!" movie
Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:50 AM ET
By Borys Kit
LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - Director Peter Segal, who shot the Adam
Sandler hits "The Longest Yard," "50 First Dates" and "Anger Management,"
has come aboard "Shazam!" -- an adaptation of the DC Comics series featuring
Captain Marvel.
The comic focused on young Billy Batson, who becomes the superhero known as
Captain Marvel when he utters the magic word "Shazam!" The name is an
acronym for six gods and heroes of the ancient world as well as their
attributes: the wisdom of Solomon, the strength of Hercules, the stamina of
Aries, the power of Zeus, the courage of Achilles and the speed of Mercury.
The project has been in the works for some time at New Line Cinema. Segal is
attached to direct "Get Smart," a big-screen adaptation of the classic TV
series, for Warner Bros.
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
Flash Bazbo
So he has built a career making crap movies.
Agent Smith
news:ot3t32hirsc31soh2...@4ax.com:
Is this the same Peter Segal who does "Wait, Wait Don't Tell Me" for
NPR?
Flash Bazbo
If it is he just lost all my respect.
quator...@netzero.com
with all the ink spilled about supermanm and batman's 'packages', it's
important to remember that captain marvel had a *big* ol bulge!
it was a rudolph nureyev moment, blanche!
quator...@netzero.com
what are you trying to say?
have you seen captain marvel?
Agent Smith
@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> with all the ink spilled about supermanm and batman's 'packages', it's
> important to remember that captain marvel had a *big* ol bulge!
> it was a rudolph nureyev moment, blanche!
I'll bet you can't provide a scan to back up this allegation. But notice
how short Mary Marvel's skirt was in her first appearance.
quator...@netzero.com
<<I'll bet you can't provide a scan to back up this allegation.>>
you can't remember?
Agent Smith
@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> <<I'll bet you can't provide a scan to back up this allegation.>>
>
> you can't remember?
The answer is 'yes,' I do remember. I collect rare and expensive golden
age comics, and although I prefer Superman, plenty of Captain Marvels go
through my hands.
Of course you realize how preposterous it is to ask anybody but a
specialist like me to remember comics from the 1940's that cost hundreds
or thousands of dollars today?
I've got you figured out, and you're a storyteller. You've missed your
calling, and you should be writing fiction for a living, because you
have an innate talent for it.
They key detail is that all of the sexy comics of the day were girlie
comics, and gay boy material was much too deep underground to ever see
comics with million copy print runs like The Big Red Cheese.
Furthermore, the sexy comics for girls were romance comics, which also
featured hot ladies. It was the time of Bettie Page, and women
dominated the pin-up world. There wasn't a gay male pin-up to be found
in comics, before the underground movement in the late sixties.
You've stepped outside your specialty, my good friend, and your lack of
education in this area stands out like a sore thumb. :-(
quator...@netzero.com
<<Of course you realize how preposterous it is to ask anybody but a
specialist like me to remember comics from the 1940's that cost
hundreds
agent smith, relax.
all those golden age comics were re-printed in the 70s.
i used to have a ton of them stored in my mother's garage, but i sold
them in the 80s to buy LSD.
c.c. beck is the artist most associated with "shazam", and he is the
one who (famously) drew captain marvel with a big ol' package in his
red tights, all right?
it wasn't meant to be "gay boy material", per se- it was "all-american
boy" material.
i'm sorry i upset you, but facts are facts.
anyone can google 'captain marvel'/c.c. beck and view the disputed
unit, 'my good friend'.
don't have a fuckin cow, man.
ps
talk about bisexuality some more, and how it doesn't exist.
expound on your theory re: 'the onion field', and how one scene
therein proves your expert point.
i'm only sayin, you excitable thing.
you're guilty of compartmentalization!
quator...@netzero.com
here is a classic shot.
the golden age captain marvel had the biggest, most lovingly rendered
crotch bulge of any american superhero except, arguably, spider-man.
i would try to get some 3 1/4 profile shots for you, but my computer is
so slow today.
anyway, don't gag.
according to attila the tongue, it was only rolled-up socks.
if it will make you feel better, you can believe that too...
edonline
"Attila_The_Tongue" <attila404notfound.com@> wrote in message
news:6n97425pg8ojrob1s...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:02:44 GMT, Agent Smith
> <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> wrote:
>
>>quator...@netzero.com wrote in news:1145124876.635599.137030
>>@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>>
>>> <<I'll bet you can't provide a scan to back up this allegation.>>
>>>
>>> you can't remember?
>>
>>The answer is 'yes,' I do remember. I collect rare and expensive golden
>>age comics, and although I prefer Superman, plenty of Captain Marvels go
>>through my hands.
>
>
>
> Once as a kid some distant relative gave me five giant boxes full of
> 60s era Marvels, including X-Men number one and Spiderman number one.
> Like a dolt I sold both of them, but got about three hundred bucks,
> for a 10 year old kid, that was a kings ransom. I still have some of
> the Ditko Spiderman issues, in plastic. Later I went to college and
> had nowhere to keep the comics and thru a series of misfortune, they
> were swapped around from house to house and finally lost.
>
> So whats the most you ever spent for a single comic, and whats the
> earliest one you've got?
>
anyone want an X-Men #1?
quator...@netzero.com
what makes you say that?
ps
if you are 'straight', it's likely that you will be focused on mary
jane.
i would argue conversely that superhero comics made me 'queer'.
everyone is different, and that's a good thing.
why are you so reactionary?
quator...@netzero.com
i can't argue with you here.
quator...@netzero.com
<<your confessions from previous posts. >>
yeah, i referred to our "bulging silver shorts".
we didn't need socks, man!
feel free to believe that if it makes you feel better.
> ps
> if you are 'straight', it's likely that you will be focused on mary
>jane.
<<really? no kidding >>
are you pretending to miss my point?
Attila_The_Tongue
>> what makes you say that?
>
>
> <<your confessions from previous posts. >>
>
>
> yeah, i referred to our "bulging silver shorts".
> we didn't need socks, man!
are you pretending to not need a captain marvelous sock?
> feel free to believe that if it makes you feel better.
<jack bruce - eric clapton voice ON>
I.......... FEEL FREE
<voice OFF>
>
>> ps
>> if you are 'straight', it's likely that you will be focused on mary
>>jane.
>
> <<really? no kidding >>
>
> are you pretending to miss my point?
That's nothing, you're pretending to be a miss.
Agent Smith
news:1145232660.9...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
You're imagining things. There's no bulge there, and there were no
bulges in Spider-Man. You have an overactive gay fantasy life.
Agent Smith
news:6n97425pg8ojrob1s...@4ax.com:
> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:02:44 GMT, Agent Smith
> <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> wrote:
>
>>quator...@netzero.com wrote in news:1145124876.635599.137030
>>@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>>
>>> <<I'll bet you can't provide a scan to back up this allegation.>>
>>>
>>> you can't remember?
>>
>>The answer is 'yes,' I do remember. I collect rare and expensive
>>golden age comics, and although I prefer Superman, plenty of Captain
>>Marvels go through my hands.
>
>
> huh. how bout that. you got any old war-era Kirby Captain America's?
I wish. Besides, I'm a DC man. I always figured that I was such a
Marvel zombie in the sixties and seventies, that I had to compensate by
going DC in the Golden Age. I feel that Superman and Batman are more
powerful archetypes, and closer to being legends, than the Timely
heroes, although Captain America does come close. Have you ever noticed
that Superman almost has a red, white & blue costume, except for the
tiny bits of yellow that replace the white?
These days I'm most interested in EC SF, because the art became quite
sophisticated shortly before EC was put out of business. Are you
familiar with their New Direction, after Kefauver made them stop
printing their horror, and for some reason I don't understand, SF lines?
Those titles sell relatively cheaply, because they're considered less
desirable than the pre-code material, yet the art is the most mature EC
ever had, before everything was cancelled except Mad.
And then there are the Frazetta issues of "Famous Funnies."
> Once as a kid some distant relative gave me five giant boxes full of
> 60s era Marvels, including X-Men number one and Spiderman number one.
> Like a dolt I sold both of them, but got about three hundred bucks,
> for a 10 year old kid, that was a kings ransom.
I sold off all four of my copies of X-Men 94 and GS #1. The first one I
took a bath on, to a 15 year old kid when I was 20! ;-( The other
three I merely took a loss on. I also let my Spidey #129 and Hulk
#181's go, and My Iron Man #1 and my SA Submariner #1. They were all in
great shape, except the #129. That one was maybe F/VF, from being read
many times, since I initially loved the Punisher. The Subby was also a
little weak, because it had a spattering of what looked like *very* fine
droplets of varnish across the top 1/3 of the back cover.
But I made up for all those losses by buying mid-range Showcases. I
only have a handful of GA DC's.
> I still have some of
> the Ditko Spiderman issues, in plastic. Later I went to college and
> had nowhere to keep the comics and thru a series of misfortune, they
> were swapped around from house to house and finally lost.
That's a ral shame. Although they're worth the most money, the early
ones are not so interesting artistically. But on the issues in the 20's
and 30's, Ditko had learned to draw the character spectacularly, and
covers that looked more like pin-ups were becoming commonplace. Perhaps
that heralded Kirby's later move to psychedelic material, with very
large panels, in the mid-range Fantastic Four's. Several of the late
Ditko Spidey's are on my want list, but I'll need to get a better job
before I can afford them, in anything but beat up condition.
> So whats the most you ever spent for a single comic, and whats the
> earliest one you've got?
I'd really rather not say. My parents always taught me that you should
keep mum about your financial situation, especially if you've got
something to lose. If people know what I've got, it just increases the
chances of someone coming over to my house with ill intent. Even if the
comics aren't at my house.
quator...@netzero.com
ok, i was in junior high in the very late 70s.
i was obsessed w/ pre-george lucas howard the duck.
'trapped in a world he never made", howard the duck was hurled from
the extra-dimensional duckworld into downtown cleveland, ohio: "the
armpit of the nation!"
the misanthropic, cigar chomping fowl battled foes like anita bryant
and the rev, sun young moon with the help of his statuesque, red-headed
common-law human wife beverly switzer.
(lea thompson was fatally, cringeingly miscast.)
the absurdist bestiality book rocked my world
i also geeked out to wonder woman, batman and the x-men.
all my friends played dungeons and dragons, but they told me i was
probably not smart enuf to play.
i would be the DJ and i drew magic marker pictures of jean grey,
batgirl and wonder woman.
the summer of '79 my friends and i went from donna summer to the
B-52s;
from the beatles to the doors;
from olivia newton-john to rickie lee jones
and most significantly,
from calvin kleins to 501s.
quator...@netzero.com
Agent Smith
news:1145437375....@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> ok, i was in junior high in the very late 70s.
> i was obsessed w/ pre-george lucas howard the duck.
> 'trapped in a world he never made",
Hey man, you and me both! I still love that slogan, as I'm still trying
to figure out what "making a world" could possibly mean. Howard was a
seriously cool dude until Lucas made that pitiful animatronic movie.
Steve Gerber certainly couldn't write movies as well as he could write
comics, huh?
Do you still have your copies if Fear #19, Howard #1 and GS Man-Thing #4
& #5? I'm still a big Howard collector, and anything from before the
big collapse is interesting to me, especially presidential campaign
items. I've found t-shirts, slurpee cubs and many fanzine covers. The
stuff was so short lived that it seems realistic to try to assemble a
complete collection.
In my world, the old '70's Howard is still a seriously happening dude!
> howard the duck was hurled from
> the extra-dimensional duckworld into downtown cleveland, ohio: "the
> armpit of the nation!"
Didn't somebody important at Marvel comics come from Cleveland? Jim
Starlin or somebody?
> the misanthropic, cigar chomping fowl battled foes like anita bryant
> and the rev, sun young moon with the help of his statuesque,
> red-headed common-law human wife beverly switzer.
They certainly were going steady, but was that common law thing ever
explicitly stated?
> (lea thompson was fatally, cringeingly miscast.)
You can say that again.
> the absurdist bestiality book rocked my world
I just enjoyed Bev's prominently displayed sexuality. On the Duckaneer
poster and the cover for the '82 SDCC, she is wearing the **skimpiest**
bikini bottoms.
As a sexually naive kid, the bestiality was always only at the fringes
of my perception. I sort of let it pass until I was older. After the
collapse, the B&W mag finally came out, and it showed them in bed
together, smoking after a tumble. At 20, I couldn't avoid it any
longer, and I just sort of thought "yep, it's bestiality." But they
were consenting, sentient adults, so it was ok.
And the absurdism was hilarious, in Fear #19, with the emergence of the
barbarian from the jar of peanut butter. I guess none of it translated
well to the screen, because if it had, others would have enjoyed it too.
People must just have seem the film as stupid, rather than
affectionately eccentric.
> i also geeked out to wonder woman, batman and the x-men.
> all my friends played dungeons and dragons, but they told me i was
> probably not smart enuf to play.
> i would be the DJ and i drew magic marker pictures of jean grey,
> batgirl and wonder woman.
None of these for me, but your so-called friends weren't very nice to
you. Just before the X-Men took off, I went to college and reduced my
interest in the hobby, so I missed the boat.
> the summer of '79 my friends and i went from donna summer to the
> B-52s;
> from the beatles to the doors;
> from olivia newton-john to rickie lee jones
> and most significantly,
Ah yes, from disco to punk and classic rock. The Beatles will never go
out of fashion, and I was always put off by the Doors. Their
psychedelia is nihilistic, rather than absurdist.
Agent Smith
Attila_The_Tongue <attila40...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:d1ic421d7tnm9lo69...@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 02:02:21 GMT, Agent Smith
> <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> wrote:
>
>>> huh. how bout that. you got any old war-era Kirby Captain America's?
>>
>>I wish. Besides, I'm a DC man. I always figured that I was such a
>>Marvel zombie in the sixties and seventies, that I had to compensate
>>by going DC in the Golden Age.
>
> yah, well, those are mostly older anyway, and more valuable arent
> they? what was the first Marvel? the Human torch? 39 or so? I think I
> saw a reprint of that once. kinda weird.
Yes and yes. The one, only and first issue of "Marvel Comics." After
that it became "Marvel Mystery Comics."
> I feel that Superman and Batman are more
>>powerful archetypes, and closer to being legends, than the Timely
>>heroes, although Captain America does come close. Have you ever
>>noticed that Superman almost has a red, white & blue costume, except
>>for the tiny bits of yellow that replace the white?
> someone once told me that superman was based on some classic hero
> scheme and thus the color configuration, and
I'd love to know more details about this. I did a search, and all I got
were flags from some obscure countries. People say things all the time
that aren't right.
> the Batman was based
> around Dracula, the classic anti-hero
Within limits. Bats didn't kill, and Drac was a villain, even though he
was a protagonist. Bats was merely an anti-hero, his brand of which was
just a hero with some traits that appeared evil.
>>These days I'm most interested in EC SF, because the art became quite
>>sophisticated shortly before EC was put out of business. Are you
>>familiar with their New Direction, after Kefauver made them stop
>>printing their horror, and for some reason I don't understand, SF
>>lines?
>
> oh hell no, the only thing I remember about EC was the great horror
> titles. I think they shoulda got Jim Steranko to draw some of that.
That's what he was moving toward when Marvel pulled him off comics and
put him onto FOOM. FOOM them morphed into Mediascene. He only did the
first issue of "Tower of Shadows," but it was characteristically
brilliant. His recent, red poster of Chandler had strong horror
elements in it, and he's had some horrific experiences in his life.
> Whatever happened to that guy? Now HE could draw.
After his prozine, Mediascene changed to the magazine format Prevue, and
he lost about fifteen years making a glossy, regular sized mag with no
hand art.
He's just lately making a comeback, but he hasn't written anything yet.
His only complete, narrative project since the comeback was to rewrite
the Chandler Red Tide GN. Since it went out of print, I haven't been
able to find the new version anywhere. He's done some really nice
paintings for posters and covers, scattered pretty widely through the
marketplace. Nothing consistent yet.
See if you can find his "Tales from the Edge" by Vanguard pubs. It has
a lot of unpublished art from his heyday, and another chapter in his
autobiography.
Here's a link to the third chapter.
http://www.prevue.net/steranko/prince4.htm
>> Those titles sell relatively cheaply, because they're considered less
>>desirable than the pre-code material, yet the art is the most mature
>>EC ever had, before everything was cancelled except Mad.
>>
>>And then there are the Frazetta issues of "Famous Funnies."
>
> I've seen some of those, he did a lot of psudeo erotic pin-up type
> stuff too, I've seen some of that.
Frazetta illustrated the Midwood paperbacks, which were the text porno
of the day. Now it's called "sleaze," and his issues are worth $80
each, which is big money for a friggin pbk from the 50's.
>>I sold off all four of my copies of X-Men 94 and GS #1. The first one
>>I took a bath on, to a 15 year old kid when I was 20! ;-( The other
>>three I merely took a loss on. I also let my Spidey #129 and Hulk
>>#181's go,
>
> why are those famous? Sorry, I pretty much stopped collecting
> Spiderman when it reached issue 100.
129 - 1st Punisher
181 - 1st Wolverine
X-Men 94 & GS 1 - 1st New X-Men
>>That's a ral shame. Although they're worth the most money, the early
>>ones are not so interesting artistically. But on the issues in the
>>20's and 30's, Ditko had learned to draw the character spectacularly,
>>and covers that looked more like pin-ups were becoming commonplace.
It's the old pin-up covers that I love. To me they have the best blend
of modern and classic styles.
> Ditko was always one of my favorites, even tho he got slagged
> mercilessly.
Yeah, by the standard of the other early greats, he produced the least.
When he found out that there was a resale market for originals, he
started using his work as cutting boards. He was politically opposed to
selling what he saw and an intermediate stage, on the way to a finished
product. His eccentricities were destructive ones. He also became a
vigorous Randroid.
> I dont know how to explain it, to me, his art is almost a
> time capsule of late 50s mid 60s commercial art.
I'm not informed about commercial art. What can you tell me about it,
and how Ditko represents the style?
> Perhaps
>>that heralded Kirby's later move to psychedelic material, with very
>>large panels, in the mid-range Fantastic Four's.
>
> right and Steranko doing the two full page extravaganzas in that short
> but beautiful Captain American series he did. I got those in original
> issue.
Those are choice issues, and high grade copies are getting expensive. I
got disappointed with Steranko, because he produced so little quality
material before he bailed out. IMO, he was the first shooting star, who
burst onto the scene and then ran out of gas. All the other geniuses,
like Kirby, Eisner, Ditko, Frazetta and Fine were steady producers. But
Steranko was still a genius, unlike the recent shooting stars, from
Image Comics.
>>I'd really rather not say. My parents always taught me that you
>>should keep mum about your financial situation, especially if you've
>>got something to lose. If people know what I've got, it just
>>increases the chances of someone coming over to my house with ill
>>intent. Even if the comics aren't at my house.
>
> no problem. understood. Suffice it to say, you have some very early DC
> comics?
Just one, but it's a good one. And a second mediocre one.
Agent Smith
news:j6df42dmtrj9gohnp...@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 23:52:39 GMT, Agent Smith
> <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> wrote:
>
>>> yah, well, those are mostly older anyway, and more valuable arent
>>> they? what was the first Marvel? the Human torch? 39 or so? I think
>>> I saw a reprint of that once. kinda weird.
>>
>>Yes and yes. The one, only and first issue of "Marvel Comics." After
>>that it became "Marvel Mystery Comics."
>
> You ever seen that one, at a comics show or anything? I never have.
> Its got to be incredibly rare.
Surprisingly yes, at the Mid-Ohio Con. I've also seen an Action #1 and
a low grade Captain America #1, but never a Detective #27 or a Whiz #1.
>>> I feel that Superman and Batman are more
>>>>powerful archetypes, and closer to being legends, than the Timely
>>>>heroes, although Captain America does come close. Have you ever
>>>>noticed that Superman almost has a red, white & blue costume, except
>>>>for the tiny bits of yellow that replace the white?
>>> someone once told me that superman was based on some classic hero
>>> scheme and thus the color configuration, and
>>
>>I'd love to know more details about this. I did a search, and all I
>>got were flags from some obscure countries. People say things all the
>>time that aren't right.
>
> Haha! Well it is Usenet.
>
> I dont know, it was just some conversation. Its possibly linked to a
> long discussion I had with a guy who was seriously into mythology of
> all cultures, heroes, and the interesting writings of a guy named
> Joseph Campbell, whos best known book is The Hero With a Thousand
> Faces
Now I *have* to have a reference. How would you feel about asking your
other friend to refresh your memory? Campbell is the master analyst of
the hero mythology. I'd read that book, except that every time I tried
watching his series on PBS, I fell asleep immediately. I should buy the
tape for an insomnia cure. ;-)
>>> the Batman was based
>>> around Dracula, the classic anti-hero
>>
>>Within limits. Bats didn't kill, and Drac was a villain, even though
>>he was a protagonist. Bats was merely an anti-hero, his brand of
>>which was just a hero with some traits that appeared evil.
>
> thats true, certainly when he was invented his character only touched
> on that concept but didnt really push it. Lately of course, the last
> what, 15 years, they've been pushing hard on that concept
I missed that. I just saw some new Superman paintings, where he looks
*very* angry. All the stories seem to be getting darker. I always
liked the Superman as a defender of goodness - a yin to Batman's yang.
I loved Frank Miller's parody of him in "Return of the Dark Knight" #3.
>>> oh hell no, the only thing I remember about EC was the great horror
>>> titles. I think they shoulda got Jim Steranko to draw some of that.
>>
>>That's what he was moving toward when Marvel pulled him off comics and
>>put him onto FOOM. FOOM them morphed into Mediascene. He only did
>>the first issue of "Tower of Shadows," but it was characteristically
>>brilliant. His recent, red poster of Chandler had strong horror
>>elements in it, and he's had some horrific experiences in his life.
>>> Whatever happened to that guy? Now HE could draw.
>>
>>After his prozine, Mediascene changed to the magazine format Prevue,
>>and he lost about fifteen years making a glossy, regular sized mag
>>with no hand art.
>
> Steranko didn't draw?
AFAIK, not in Prevue. He lost those 15 years of his career, but when he
came back, he was better than ever. I wonder if anything in those
issues will ever turn out to be interesting to collectors.
>>He's just lately making a comeback, but he hasn't written anything
>>yet. His only complete, narrative project since the comeback was to
>>rewrite the Chandler Red Tide GN. Since it went out of print, I
>>haven't been able to find the new version anywhere. He's done some
>>really nice paintings for posters and covers, scattered pretty widely
>>through the marketplace. Nothing consistent yet.
>
> Yeah in the 70s he did some excellent covers for re-issues of the
> Shadow pulp novel, which I'm a fan of, as cheasy as it is.
You and me both, although I never saw anything cheesy about them. I
wish he'd publish them as portfolios, because trading cards don't cut it
for me. Were there 24 of them?
>>See if you can find his "Tales from the Edge" by Vanguard pubs. It
>>has a lot of unpublished art from his heyday, and another chapter in
>>his autobiography.
>>
>>Here's a link to the third chapter.
>>
>>http://www.prevue.net/steranko/prince4.htm
>
> very interesting, thanks a lot
I'm inferring that he fired the zip gun, although there's no telling
what happened next. Do you suppose that he left that guy bleeding under
the bridge?
>>> I've seen some of those, he did a lot of psudeo erotic pin-up type
>>> stuff too, I've seen some of that.
>>
>>Frazetta illustrated the Midwood paperbacks, which were the text porno
>>of the day. Now it's called "sleaze," and his issues are worth $80
>>each, which is big money for a friggin pbk from the 50's.
> I gotta ask now, do you draw? Were you ever a scripter or storyboard
> artist? I used to draw a LOT of storyboards and stuff for various
> agencies and networks, stuff like that ... how about you?
I dabble. If you don't count stick figures and exercises in
perspective, I have done a grand total of one drawing. It's a fairly
likeable reproduction of the hero on the cover of Secret Agent #10. I'm
a much better writer than artist, and I should probably put onto paper a
story in the Steranko style that I've had in my head for a few years.
My most important body of finished work is to track down uncolored pin-
ups by the greats and color them, and my library is quite large. I've
gotten pretty good with Photoshop, and I get a *lot* of mileage out of
the gradient tool for doing backgrounds. I'd like to generate full
wraparound covers for coverless comics, but I still have no way to get
the inside covers.
>>>>That's a real shame. Although they're worth the most money, the
>>>>early ones are not so interesting artistically. But on the issues in
>>>>the 20's and 30's, Ditko had learned to draw the character
>>>>spectacularly, and covers that looked more like pin-ups were
>>>>becoming commonplace.
>>
>>It's the old pin-up covers that I love. To me they have the best
>>blend of modern and classic styles.
>
> Yah I worked in an illustration studio for awhile, called a "wrist
> shop" of sorts in the commercial art trade... we had prints of
> Sundlbom, Elvgren, Macpherson, Pearl Frush, Bobby Toombs, all them
> people, up all over the place. The older stuff too, Parrish, some
> Rockwell, Wyeth.... They were the real talent, as far as we were
> concerned. Petty I never liked as much altho he certainly was skilled.
I hear illustrators are well paid, compared to comic artists.
>>Yeah, by the standard of the other early greats, he produced the
>>least. When he found out that there was a resale market for
>>originals, he started using his work as cutting boards. He was
>>politically opposed to selling what he saw and an intermediate stage,
>>on the way to a finished product. His eccentricities were destructive
>>ones. He also became a vigorous Randroid.
>
> I didnt know that. Did he ever draw The Fountainhead?
Has that ever been adapted? There are two great, new biographical
histories out - "Tales to Astonish" by Ronin Ro and "Will Eisner: A
Spirited Life," by Bob Andelman. Have you read "The Amazing Adventures
of Kavalier and Clay"? And what kind of a fake name is "Ronin Ro"?
>>Those are choice issues, and high grade copies are getting expensive.
>
> Wooo-hooooh!!!! I'm in the money
If they're in honest high grades, I envy you. Dont'cha love those op
art covers? Nick Fury #5 is the only one I've got in reasonably high
grade, and the Nick Fury's without Steranko interiors. The Nick Fury #1
and the Cap #111 are the most valuable ones, but my favorite is #113,
with Madame Hydra.
> I heard a story that Barry Smiths first issues were drawn partly on a
> park bench. Could be all lies. He was homeless or something. Maybe
> just really broke.
Maybe he was imposing on a friend, long after he should have moved out,
and working in the park? I've got a spare room, and I'd take in a
homeless Barry Smith. ;-) I've never been able to understand how those
folks can afford to live in Manhattan. Maybe you just explained it.
> From my distant contacts at Marvel, they all told
> me the same thing. Man, the pace is just BRUTAL and it will KILL your
> wrist.
I knew the first part, but not the second. According to Ronin Ro, Jack
Kirby pulled all-nighters for years on end. I just don't understand how
a person could stand that kind of strain. And it's worse now, because
sometimes the comics go semi-monthly during the summer, so you get
sixteen issues a year. It's like engineering, where there are two
tracks: over-achiever and "you're fired." If you want to succeed,
you've got to work 10-12 hour days for long stretches of your career.
> Some guys simply arent cut out for that kind of output.
That's for sure. At the very least, it will aggravate even the most
minor imperfections in your wrist.
Agent Smith
news:disf421l911umj961...@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 20:10:07 GMT, Agent Smith
> <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> wrote:
>
>>Attila_The_Tongue <attila40...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>news:j6df42dmtrj9gohnp...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 23:52:39 GMT, Agent Smith
>>> <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> yah, well, those are mostly older anyway, and more valuable arent
>>>>> they? what was the first Marvel? the Human torch? 39 or so? I
>>>>> think I saw a reprint of that once. kinda weird.
>>>>
>>>>Yes and yes. The one, only and first issue of "Marvel Comics."
>>>>After that it became "Marvel Mystery Comics."
>>>
>>> You ever seen that one, at a comics show or anything? I never have.
>>> Its got to be incredibly rare.
>>
>>Surprisingly yes, at the Mid-Ohio Con. I've also seen an Action #1
>>and a low grade Captain America #1, but never a Detective #27 or a
>>Whiz #1.
>
> who's in Whiz 1? the yellow kid?
The Big Red Cheese, Captain Marvel.
>> Campbell is the master analyst of
>>the hero mythology. I'd read that book, except that every time I
>>tried watching his series on PBS, I fell asleep immediately. I should
>>buy the tape for an insomnia cure. ;-)
>
> LOL! doh! and I thought Enya was the cure for insomnia. Maybeshe
> should do the music for his specials.
I should give that a try. I love her stuff, and she worked well on
"Lord of the Rings." For a second I got her confused with Dido.
>>> thats true, certainly when he was invented his character only
>>> touched on that concept but didnt really push it. Lately of course,
>>> the last what, 15 years, they've been pushing hard on that concept
>>
>>I missed that. I just saw some new Superman paintings, where he looks
>>*very* angry. All the stories seem to be getting darker.
>
> you know, i've chatted with people who say society in general is
> darker. all the arguing online just as an example. some blame it on
> the war.
Certainly the recent changes. The darkness was getting pretty deep long
before the war. I remember some pretty ugly events in "Preacher" and
"Savage Dragon" ... and then there was Faust. I just thought it was a
logical combination of the removal of the restraints of the Code, plus
the intrinsic misfit nature of the readership. It's a powerful medium,
and left to itself, any medium will evolve to the most intense possible
stories. Maybe Wertham was partly right.
>>I always
>>liked the Superman as a defender of goodness - a yin to Batman's yang.
>> I loved Frank Miller's parody of him in "Return of the Dark Knight"
>>#3.
>
> that ROCKED. Miller's great.
I liked his comments on absurdism in "Shop Talk," with Eisner, and I
loved the way he rewrote the Robin and Supergirl characters. In
Miller's universe, there's a second Supergirl who is the daughter of
Superman and Diana. It was never clear whether the first Supergirl was
just a pin-up model or more. Maybe they're identical cousins. Maybe
they're "William Wilson" dopplegangers, with the new one being the evil
twin and the old one being the good twin. Again, I always iked her as a
good girl.
>>> Steranko didn't draw?
>>
>>AFAIK, not in Prevue. He lost those 15 years of his career, but when
>>he came back, he was better than ever. I wonder if anything in those
>>issues will ever turn out to be interesting to collectors.
It was mostly photos of b-movie queens and short reviews of Hollywood
action fantasy films. That's when Super Jim was trying to break into
Hollywood. Can you believe that he did the character design for Indiana
Jones? He was also the "project conceptualist" on "Bram Stoker's
Dracula," including storyboards, creature design and IIRC art direction
and design supervision.
When it tanked, he seems to have embarked on a period of self-
examination about his decision to go to Hollywood. I think he gave it
up and went back to his roots. In comics, Steranko was a big fish in a
small pond, but not in Hollywood. I think he should have kept at it,
but he might never again have found people to work with like Spielberg
and Lucas. He was probably right.
> thats sort of freaky to me, that a guy who was THAT talented and
> skilled, completely blank for that long. Steranko is another
> time-capsule to me; the perfect icon of late 60s psychedelic graphic
> design. Rick Griffin too and sure Robert Crumb but in different ways.
> Steranko looked almost commercial art trained.
It was a classic career change. I sure can't see putting Crumb into
Steranko's category of psychedelia. The closest I've ever seen was Mike
Hinge, who Steranko himself discovered in advertizing and tried to
import to comics. He did some great SF covers, too.
>>> Yeah in the 70s he did some excellent covers for re-issues of the
>>> Shadow pulp novel, which I'm a fan of, as cheasy as it is.
>>
>>You and me both, although I never saw anything cheesy about them. I
>>wish he'd publish them as portfolios, because trading cards don't cut
>>it for me. Were there 24 of them?
>
> I dont know, I've only got about 10 of them with Steranko's covers. Do
> you enjoy reading them or just collecting? I have dozens of them in
> PDF I got from some website. I actually like to read the things. I
> dunno, they just appeal to me.
Both reading and colleting. Steranko was at the top of his form, and it
was the best oil painting he did before Hollywood. I think his
Mediascene covers were oil painting too, but they were beginners work
compared to the Shadow covers.
>>> very interesting, thanks a lot
>>
>>I'm inferring that he fired the zip gun, although there's no telling
>>what happened next. Do you suppose that he left that guy bleeding
>>under the bridge?
>
> I kept wondering there was going to be this ironic plot twist where it
> turned out he was the guy that got shot.
Nick Fury never got killed at the end of one of his stories. You're
looking for a cliffhanger, but the wrote a sudden ending. Take a look
at "Full Moon Rise, Hell Hound Kill," and you'll see a classic missed
opportunity for a cliffhanger.
>>>>Frazetta illustrated the Midwood paperbacks, which were the text
>>>>porno of the day. Now it's called "sleaze," and his issues are
>>>>worth $80 each, which is big money for a friggin pbk from the 50's.
>>
>>> I gotta ask now, do you draw? Were you ever a scripter or storyboard
>>> artist? I used to draw a LOT of storyboards and stuff for various
>>> agencies and networks, stuff like that ... how about you?
>>
>>I dabble. If you don't count stick figures and exercises in
>>perspective, I have done a grand total of one drawing. It's a fairly
>>likeable reproduction of the hero on the cover of Secret Agent #10.
>>I'm a much better writer than artist, and I should probably put onto
>>paper a story in the Steranko style that I've had in my head for a few
>>years.
>
> so you identified with the writers of the comics more than the
> pencillers or equally? I'm sure you saw Kirbys later DC stuff, mister
> marvel or whatever it was. He was writing it too i thought...
I identify with the writers but admire the artists. It was Mister
Miracle, and Kirby wrote everything he did at DC. He wrote most of his
Marvel stuff too, just based on starting ideas and dialogue by Stan.
There were never any written plots for those comics, just "meetings."
>>My most important body of finished work is to track down uncolored
>>pin- ups by the greats and color them, and my library is quite large.
>
> theres a yahoo! group where they trade pin ups and some guy will put
> them in a paint shop pro format. not bad. you could do whatever with
> them
I have a scanner, and I know Photoshop. Why would I need this guy?
>>I've
>>gotten pretty good with Photoshop, and I get a *lot* of mileage out of
>>the gradient tool for doing backgrounds. I'd like to generate full
>>wraparound covers for coverless comics, but I still have no way to get
>>the inside covers.
>
> interesting. I work as a commercial artist now and I'm in photoshop
> sometimes eight hours a day. I dont draw so much anymore but when i
> do, even THAT is on the computer, I got one of those big wacom
> electronic drawing tablets.
>
> illustration now is a dying breed. the computer has mostly killed it.
> the computer revolutionized commerical art in ways nobody could
> predict.
Photoshop is the wave of the future. But the limitation is that it
discards the old techniques, rather than building on them. I will
always respect the hand work more, including coloring. With the
exception of Lynn varley, all the digital color work just looks so
repetitive. I wish they could actually publish people's color
brushwork, on top of the line art.
>>> Yah I worked in an illustration studio for awhile, called a "wrist
>>> shop" of sorts in the commercial art trade... we had prints of
>>> Sundlbom, Elvgren, Macpherson, Pearl Frush, Bobby Toombs, all them
>>> people, up all over the place. The older stuff too, Parrish, some
>>> Rockwell, Wyeth.... They were the real talent, as far as we were
>>> concerned. Petty I never liked as much altho he certainly was
>>> skilled.
>>
>>I hear illustrators are well paid, compared to comic artists.
Like many professions, it's a better living, but it's not where our
hearts are.
> thats also what the guys at Marvel told me. LOL
>>>
>>> I didnt know that. Did he ever draw The Fountainhead?
>>
>>Has that ever been adapted? There are two great, new biographical
>>histories out - "Tales to Astonish" by Ronin Ro and "Will Eisner: A
>>Spirited Life," by Bob Andelman. Have you read "The Amazing
>>Adventures of Kavalier and Clay"? And what kind of a fake name is
>>"Ronin Ro"?
>
> Hahahaha I got no answers to any of that.
Ditko did a couple of fanzines with an Objectivist political flavor.
After the non-comics and undergrounds, they're probably the most obscure
'zine work of all.
>>>>Those are choice issues, and high grade copies are getting
>>>>expensive.
>>>
>>> Wooo-hooooh!!!! I'm in the money
>>
>>If they're in honest high grades, I envy you. Dont'cha love those op
>>art covers?
>
> pure 60s psychedelia. He REALLY had a grip on it.
The world still hasn't caught up to him. After him, there was Jack. I
the origins of the Silver Surfer, Warlock and the Inhumans were a
brilliant run of Fantastic Four. I liked Starlin's Vietnam inspired
70's psychedelia, too. Look for Star Reach #1 and it's amazing, LSD
inspired work.
> Nick Fury #5 is the only one I've got in reasonably high
>>grade, and the Nick Fury's without Steranko interiors. The Nick Fury
>>#1 and the Cap #111 are the most valuable ones, but my favorite is
>>#113, with Madame Hydra.
>
> I think thats my best one. She was HOT. I'd have to check the numbers.
> Which one had The Hulk on the cover?
It was the best story, and the most horror driven one. It was also the
one whose splash pace was censored by Stan as being too scary for kids.
The Hulk was in #110. I think #111 was the one with the carnival splash
page "Tomorrow You Live, Tonight I Die!" Absolutely brilliant.
>>> From my distant contacts at Marvel, they all told
>>> me the same thing. Man, the pace is just BRUTAL and it will KILL
>>> your wrist.
>>
>>I knew the first part, but not the second. According to Ronin Ro,
>>Jack Kirby pulled all-nighters for years on end. I just don't
>>understand how a person could stand that kind of strain.
>
> Some people respond positively to that kind of hi stress and demand
> and some dont. Some of the old guys used to ink their stuff too, which
> is INCREDIBLY time intensive and if you've ever tried that, pushed a
> couple of brushes around on poster board with real India ink, oh my
> GOD is that an art. Very difficult.
>
> Kirby I dont think inked his stuff. Maybe he did.
On the FF, Ayers did the first half of his work and Sinnott the second,
psychedelic half, as well as the DC work. Maybe Ayers and Sinnott did
Thor and Sinnott Captain America. Maybe Severin did Nick Fury. My fave
is Jack's last issue of Captain America, which was his only comic work
inked by Gene Colan. What a team!
>>That's for sure. At the very least, it will aggravate even the most
>>minor imperfections in your wrist.
>
> I took on too much work a few years ago, too many art projects and too
> many side gigs as a session player and ended up in a wrist cast for 6
> months. Ouch.
I have hand problems too, but not from art. I saw Steranko massaging
his wrists at a show, so maybe it's a common thing.
Agent Smith
news:26rh42lthvo7u2qf2...@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:16:19 GMT, Agent Smith
> <agent...@two-blocks-on-your-left.com> wrote:
>
>>Photoshop is the wave of the future.
>
> actually it might not be. Its been around awhile, but in terms of the
> computer mimicking or coming very close to the "natural" visual arts,
> try a program called Painter. You'll need a graphics tablet like a
> Wacom. But with those two, you can do oil painting where you can
> actualy "load" the pen with resistance just like you'd feel pushing
> the slop thru the varnish onto some gesso'd canvas. You can do
> airbrushing that LOOK LIKE REAL AIRBRUSHING. Photoshop cant do any of
> this stuff, that convincingly.
>
> I'm not knocking the program, i think its great, and have used it
> extensively.
>
> Some of the traditional illustrators I used to know, finally went with
> this painter-tablet combo. The beauty of it is, when you're finished,
> you hand the client a CD ad he can import it directly into his
> page-layout program. He doesnt have to take your art and go to a drum
> scanner and then color correct the tranparencies.
>
> But its a double edged sword; many of the illustrators saw the way
> thigns were going, they didnt want to deal with the computer at all,
> so they packed it up and walked. Same thing with photographers and
> film. theres still a bunch clutching their film with their cold clammy
> hands till death do them part, but more and more of them are just
> packing it in and going digi, and many are leaving the commercial
> studio world altogether. Stock photography is killing them. Even the
> studio photogrpahers I know, have to be experts at photoshop; you go
> to a shoot these days, they pop a few rounds, then call it up on a
> monitor and you start editing right there.
Very interesting. You'd need special hardware, like a force-feedback
pen of some sort, which I looks to me like it would have to be unwieldy.
It would have to be mounted on some sort of frame, so it could push back
against the table. A trackball that's fixed to the desk can do it, but
that's not a pen. The Wacom can't do that, can it? I have no tablet,
because the 11x17 units are so expensive, and the $60 unit is only about
6x6.
I'm not surprised that somebody has better software than Photoshop,
since that's how innovation always works. "Painter" is such a generic
name that I'll never remember it. ;-) Hopefully, Adobe will buy up the
new technology and install it into their package, since nobody can
realistically compete with such a 900 lb gorilla. I'd hate to see Adobe
try to put the best innovators out of business.
>>It was the best story, and the most horror driven one. It was also
>>the one whose splash pace was censored by Stan as being too scary for
>>kids. The Hulk was in #110. I think #111 was the one with the
>>carnival splash page "Tomorrow You Live, Tonight I Die!" Absolutely
>>brilliant.
>
> I got that one, the Hulk one, and then theres another one, I think
> with Bucky looming over Cap's grave after he's been "killed"
>
>>On the FF, Ayers did the first half of his work and Sinnott the
>>second, psychedelic half, as well as the DC work. Maybe Ayers and
>>Sinnott did Thor and Sinnott Captain America. Maybe Severin did Nick
>>Fury. My fave is Jack's last issue of Captain America, which was his
>>only comic work inked by Gene Colan. What a team!
>
> wow! Colan was a trip. Another sort of 60s style artist, I see a lot
> of his style in the commercial art stuff from then. I suppose you saw
> the trippy run of Daredevil with the Jester when Colan decided to make
> the panels at all kindsa weird angles.
Colan may have pioneered this technique, although Adams did it too, at
least by '70. That might have been Colan's biggest contribution. I own
many of those issues, but have never read them, because most or all of
them are VF- or better.
Except for the panel layouts, I never saw it as psychedelic, because
it's so dark, with such muted colors. Same for his run on Captain
America and, of course, Dracula. But now that you mention it, it *is*
psychedelic, just not as colorful as Steranko, Kirby and possibly Adams.
The fight scenes are *very* wildly dynamic. Sureal even, and Kirby
always drew onto a grid.
>>> I took on too much work a few years ago, too many art projects and
>>> too many side gigs as a session player and ended up in a wrist cast
>>> for 6 months. Ouch.
>>
>>I have hand problems too, but not from art. I saw Steranko massaging
>>his wrists at a show, so maybe it's a common thing.
>
> On the musician boards I read, and in lots of musician pen pal notes,
> we all bitch and moan about getting old and our shoulders, wrists and
> backs falling apart. Its a common ailment. Those joints can only take
> so much. My orthopeadist told me, playing guitar at night in a band
> and working on a computer during the day is a double whammy and is
> just looking for trouble. I found it.
Yeah, I've just restarted my physical therapy. I can't take the
suffering any more, so I'm going to do something about it. It
destresses me and helps my ulcer, too. Hopefully in a few months I'll
be pain free again. I never should have stopped in the first place.
Agent Smith
news:c5mp425ptqldmnni4...@4ax.com:
> is it your wrist? I've started back on the ice and the ibuprofen and
> the exercises too. what kind of therapy are you trying?
I'm doing heat, stretches and swimming.
quator...@netzero.com
you guys kill me.