Mister Rogers blamed for rise in narcissistic "special" young adults
An Even Smarter Ape Than Smart Ape
Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
Young Adults Feel So Entitled
July 5, 2007; Page B5
Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it
dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual,
students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra
points needed to lift their grades to A's.
"They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame
Mr. Rogers."
Fred Rogers, the late TV icon, told several generations of children
that they were "special" just for being whoever they were. He meant
well, and he was a sterling role model in many ways. But what often
got lost in his self-esteem-building patter was the idea that being
special comes from working hard and having high expectations for
yourself.
Now Mr. Rogers, like Dr. Spock before him, has been targeted for re-
evaluation. And he's not the only one. As educators and researchers
struggle to define the new parameters of parenting, circa 2007, some
are revisiting the language of child ego-boosting. What are the
downsides of telling kids they're special? Is it a mistake to have
children call us by our first names? When we focus all conversations
on our children's lives, are we denying them the insights found when
adults talk about adult things?
Some are calling for a recalibration of the mind-sets and catch-
phrases that have taken hold in recent decades. Among the expressions
now being challenged:
"You're special." On the Yahoo Answers Web site, a discussion thread
about Mr. Rogers begins with this posting: "Mr. Rogers spent years
telling little creeps that he liked them just the way they were. He
should have been telling them there was a lot of room for
improvement. ... Nice as he was, and as good as his intentions may
have been, he did a disservice."
Signs of narcissism among college students have been rising for 25
years, according to a recent study led by a San Diego State University
psychologist. Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this.
But as Prof. Chance sees it, "he's representative of a culture of
excessive doting."
Prof. Chance teaches many Asian-born students, and says they accept
whatever grade they're given; they see B's and C's as an indication
that they must work harder, and that their elders assessed them
accurately. They didn't grow up with Mr. Rogers or anyone else telling
them they were born special.
By contrast, American students often view lower grades as a reason to
"hit you up for an A because they came to class and feel they worked
hard," says Prof. Chance. He wishes more parents would offer kids this
perspective: "The world owes you nothing. You have to work and
compete. If you want to be special, you'll have to prove it."
"They're just children." When kids are rude, self-absorbed or
disrespectful, some parents allow or endure it by saying, "Well,
they're just children." The phrase is a worthy one when it's applied
to a teachable moment, such as telling kids not to stick their fingers
in electrical sockets. But as an excuse or as justification for
unacceptable behavior, "They're just children" is just misguided.
"Call me Cindy." Is it appropriate to place kids on the same level as
adults, with all of us calling each other by our first names? On one
hand, the familiarity can mark a loving closeness between child and
adult. But on the other hand, when a child calls an adult Mr. or Ms.,
it helps him recognize that status is earned by age and experience.
It's also a reminder to respect your elders.
"Tell me about your day." It is crucial to talk to kids about their
lives, and that dialogue can enrich the whole family. However, parents
also need to discuss their own lives and experiences, says Alvin
Rosenfeld, a Manhattan-based child psychiatrist who studies family
interactions.
In America today, life often begins with the anointing of "His
Majesty, the Fetus," he says. From then on, many parents focus their
conversations on their kids. Today's parents "are the best-educated
generation ever," says Dr. Rosenfeld. "So why do our kids see us
primarily discussing kids' schedules and activities?"
He encourages parents to talk about their passions and interests;
about politics, business, world events. "Because everything is child-
centered today, we're depriving children of adults," he says. "If they
never see us as adults being adults, how will they deal with important
matters when it is their world?"
Write to Jeffrey Zaslow at jeffrey...@wsj.com
the Bede
>a finance professor
>at Louisiana State University
>
CliffB
Silly me, I thought it was all Dr. Spock's fault........Oh,
wait........he's just responsible for all those narcissistic,
"special" baby boomers who spawned the current crop of special
narcissists.
riverg...@hotmail.com
Oh, bull.
FDR
"An Even Smarter Ape Than Smart Ape" <tehMot...@gmail.com> wrote in
message news:1183723859.0...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118358476840657463.html
>
> Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
> Young Adults Feel So Entitled
> July 5, 2007; Page B5
>
> Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it
> dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual,
> students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra
> points needed to lift their grades to A's.
>
> "They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame
> Mr. Rogers."
They are only entitled if they think you will let them get the extra credit.
It's really easy Don, start the semester with a syllabus that states no
extra credit. Kids, and adults, will see what they can get away with if
they think you're easy.
Sheesh.
muzicmakr
"An Even Smarter Ape Than Smart Ape" <tehMot...@gmail.com> wrote in
message news:1183723859.0...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118358476840657463.html
>
> Majesty, the Fetus," he says. From then on, many parents focus their
> conversations on their kids. Today's parents "are the best-educated
> generation ever," says Dr. Rosenfeld. "So why do our kids see us
> primarily discussing kids' schedules and activities?"
>
> He encourages parents to talk about their passions and interests;
> about politics, business, world events. "Because everything is child-
> centered today, we're depriving children of adults," he says. "If they
> never see us as adults being adults, how will they deal with important
> matters when it is their world?"
>
Sadly, I've lost a few friendships to parenthood. I tried to be tolerant at
first; I understood that their lives had changed dramatically, but
eventually I couldn't recognize them as my friends anymore, and my feelings
for them just withered away.
computeridiot
>
> Oh, bull.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have to tell you when my daughter was the age for viewing Mr.
Rogers, it came on at her crankiest time of day, and there he would be
telling her that "I like you just the way you are". One day I got
tired of her behavior and just as he spoke the words, I admit it, I
lost it and turned to her and said, "Well he may like you this way,
but I DONT!! So knock it off and knock it off now!" Then we shut his
program off and left it off. I honestly always believed that while
there was much good about his gentle programing, he was promoting
obnoxious behavior with that phrase.
BTR1701
riverg...@hotmail.com wrote:
Wow. Such a well-thought and cogent rebuttal. Let me guess, you're one
of the "I'm so special" crowd?
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
FDR <_removespam...@hotmail.com> typed:
> "An Even Smarter Ape Than Smart Ape" <tehMot...@gmail.com> wrote in
> message news:1183723859.0...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118358476840657463.html
>>
>> Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
>> Young Adults Feel So Entitled
>> July 5, 2007; Page B5
>>
>> Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says
>> it dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual,
>> students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra
>> points needed to lift their grades to A's.
>>
>> "They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can
>> blame Mr. Rogers."
>
> They are only entitled if they think you will let them get the extra
> credit. It's really easy Don, start the semester with a syllabus that
> states no extra credit. Kids, and adults, will see what they can get
> away with if they think you're easy.
>
> Sheesh.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. It's not just in the classroom. It's in daily
lives, in sports, at work... many children do think they're entitled to
things that they really aren't. It may seem like a bad example, but actually
it shows this idea even more. At my school there's a badminton tournament
every year on the second-to-last day of school for the Junior class. They
told us days in advance that "no one is allowed to leave on thursday (the
day of the tournament) without having an absentee note in at least 24 hours
ahead of time." So some snotty girl (go figure) raised her hand and said
"well what if I get sick?" to which the gym teachers replied, "You're not
allowed to leave. It's school-wide policy." "Well what if I hurt my arm?"
etc etc etc. And then when the "conversation" was finally over, she said
"Well that's stupid. If we're out of the tournament we should be able to do
whatever we want!" Why? Did you get to do whatever you wanted last year,
when you were a sophomore? No. You were lucky to be able to even go watch.
Shut the hell up, and if you want to leave early, get a note. Girls
especially believe they're entitled to much more than they really are, which
can also be attributed to the whole "daddy's little girl" notion. You may be
daddy's little girl, but that means that daddy spoils you, not everyone
else.
A study hall teacher of mine this year made the same point. She said
something to the effect of "kids just don't think they have any
responsibilities anymore" and I said, "No, we're all special. We were told
that in Kindergarten, so it must be true." It was sarcasm, but she looked at
me and she said, "you know what? I think you're right."
SawDust
"§¦«The Wraith»¦§" <Nightm...@netz3r0.com> wrote in message
news:ZYudnW6dBbs-DRPb...@comcast.com...
Nate, ask this girl out to the movies or whatever the hell you kids do these
days. Sounds like she has a spine and isn't afraid of confrontation. If any
gym "teacher" ever told me that I couldn't leave some lame badminton
event -- even if I was sick -- I would just laugh in his face.
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
SawDust <mains...@hotmail.com> typed:
You're an idiot. You could leave the tournament, you couldn't leave school.
Just like any other day at school.
RobinArmstrong
take him home.
SawDust
But suppose you did decide to leave school that day. Describe the
consequences that would have followed.
arche...@yahoo.com
<tehMottJu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118358476840657463.html
>
> Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
> Young Adults Feel So Entitled
> July 5, 2007; Page B5
>
> Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it
> dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual,
> students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra
> points needed to lift their grades to A's.
>
> "They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame
> Mr. Rogers."
Geez, anything but blame the parents, right? I'm almost 40, and I grew
up with Mister Rogers. I don't think I should get lumped in with kids
half my age! My parents taught me to work hard for whatever I wanted,
to always say "please" and "thank you," and that an allowance was a
question of whether I did my chores and did them well. I don't know
why people feel the need to point the finger at one or two pop culture
icons instead of realizing that, duh, parents have a LOT to do with
how their kids turn out.
But I don't have kids so that may be assuming too much - that parents
actually put in the effort to keep their offspring from becoming
entitled, self-absorbed twits.
SawDust
"Chad Bryant" <rs...@chadbryant.net> wrote in message
news:468ea8c0$0$501$815e...@news.qwest.net...
> ignorant fuckers need as much education as they can get.
I'm not encouraging today's American children to leave school.
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
Detention. Whoop-dee-do. The point is, you're not entitled to leave, so
getting all pissy about it is ridiculous. You're entitled to NOTHING.
Especially when you're a stuck up little pig who tans every day and daddy
buys you everything. If you want to leave, either get a note or do it, don't
waste 10 minutes of everyone else's day bitching about it.
FDR
<arche...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1183755310....@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
How come Mr. economics professor can blame Mr. Rodgers, but doesn't blame
the incessant advertising on tv by mega corporations telling kids they need
to have this or that product as young as age 3.
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
arche...@yahoo.com <arche...@yahoo.com> typed:
> On Jul 6, 8:10 am, An Even Smarter Ape Than Smart Ape
> <tehMottJu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118358476840657463.html
>>
>> Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
>> Young Adults Feel So Entitled
>> July 5, 2007; Page B5
>>
>> Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says
>> it dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual,
>> students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra
>> points needed to lift their grades to A's.
>>
>> "They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can
>> blame Mr. Rogers."
>
> Geez, anything but blame the parents, right?
I don't believe that they're saying the blame should ONLY fall on Mr Rogers.
I think it's the combination of Mr Rogers, the parents, and the teachers
following Mr Rogers' lead in telling kids that they're "all special people
in their own way" and that this one thing "is what makes [them] special" and
the bullshit like that.
Lisa Drake
RobinArmstrong <RobinAr...@lbh.com> wrote:
> In most schools, if a child gets sick, a parent is called to come and
> take him home.
The sad part is, the school then EXPECTS you to drop what you're doing
at work or wherever you are and pick up the kid immediately. They (the
school nurses) act all pissy if you tell them you can't come right away.
BTR1701
arche...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jul 6, 8:10 am, An Even Smarter Ape Than Smart Ape
> <tehMottJu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118358476840657463.html
> >
> > Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
> > Young Adults Feel So Entitled
> > July 5, 2007; Page B5
> >
> > Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it
> > dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual,
> > students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra
> > points needed to lift their grades to A's.
> >
> > "They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame
> > Mr. Rogers."
>
> Geez, anything but blame the parents, right?
Actually the article was highly critical of parents who treat their kids
this way.
BTR1701
"muzicmakr" <muzi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Same here. It's like they morph into alien beings just because they've
reproduced.
BTR1701
"SawDust" <mains...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Same as the consequence that have followed ditching school for decades.
Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
Lily
<<If you want to leave, either get a note or do it, don't waste 10
minutes of everyone else's day bitching about it.>>
And was enabled by the teacher who got sucked into playing the game with
her. S/he's the one who could have cut off that kid and aborted the
process with one sentence.
Lily
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> typed:
He's a little slow, you'll have to forgive him. It's possible that he's even
the original "you're special" kid and never took an interest in his
education because of it.
SawDust
Wrong answer. The school board can do nothing if you refuse to participate
in a non-academic activity, including detention.
If you keep thinking that every girl is a "little pig" you will never get a
date or get laid.
SawDust
"BTR1701" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-4D4868...@news.giganews.com...
Decades? You must be a dumb kid, just like Nate.
SawDust
Oh c'mon Nate, we all know that some lame community college is in your
future. Your SAT scores won't get you into any decent university.
mich
"SawDust" <mains...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:l3Rji.100156$HP3.5...@weber.videotron.net...
>
> If you keep thinking that every girl is a "little pig" you will never get
> a date or get laid.
And that's a bad thing?
SawDust
"mich" <s...@doo.what> wrote in message
news:SSRji.6144$sD3.4...@wagner.videotron.net...
When I was 17, yeah it was.
mich
Sure, but this is «The Wraith»" that we're talking about.
SawDust
"mich" <s...@doo.what> wrote in message
Oh right. Yeah, I think a lot of parents of teenage daughters in the state
of PA feel better knowing that Nate prefers guys over chicks.
mich
Yup, but pet owners aren't so lucky.
BTR1701
"SawDust" <mains...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ah, yes. An ad hominem, and a nonsensical one at that. I'll give you the
benefit of the doubt and just assume you're not bright enough to have
understood what was said.
tomcervo
<tehMottJu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118358476840657463.html
>
> Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
> Young Adults Feel So Entitled
> July 5, 2007; Page B5
>
> Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it
> dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual,
> students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra
> points needed to lift their grades to A's.
>
> "They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame
> Mr. Rogers."
Jesus, think of the RESEARCH he did to come up with that conclusion. I
suppose in the end it Mr. Rogers edged out Scooby Do.
If some kid turned in a paper to him with that much thought and
documentation, he'd write up a recommendation for special placement
remedial English. If only the other profs had listened to him gas in
the common room we wouldn't have to read it in the WSJ Ed page. As for
Jeffrey Zaslow, I see Johnny Deadline rides again.
.
trippy
Even Smarter Ape Than Smart Ape took the hamburger meat, threw it on the
grill, and I said "Oh Wow"...
> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118358476840657463.html
>
> Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
> Young Adults Feel So Entitled
> July 5, 2007; Page B5
>
> Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it
> dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual,
> students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra
> points needed to lift their grades to A's.
>
> "They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame
> Mr. Rogers."
>
> Fred Rogers, the late TV icon, told several generations of children
> that they were "special" just for being whoever they were. He meant
> well, and he was a sterling role model in many ways. But what often
> got lost in his self-esteem-building patter was the idea that being
> special comes from working hard and having high expectations for
> yourself.
>
> Now Mr. Rogers, like Dr. Spock before him, has been targeted for re-
> evaluation. And he's not the only one. As educators and researchers
> struggle to define the new parameters of parenting, circa 2007, some
> are revisiting the language of child ego-boosting. What are the
> downsides of telling kids they're special? Is it a mistake to have
> children call us by our first names? When we focus all conversations
> on our children's lives, are we denying them the insights found when
> adults talk about adult things?
>
> Some are calling for a recalibration of the mind-sets and catch-
> phrases that have taken hold in recent decades. Among the expressions
> now being challenged:
>
> "You're special." On the Yahoo Answers Web site, a discussion thread
> about Mr. Rogers begins with this posting: "Mr. Rogers spent years
> telling little creeps that he liked them just the way they were. He
> should have been telling them there was a lot of room for
> improvement. ... Nice as he was, and as good as his intentions may
> have been, he did a disservice."
>
> Signs of narcissism among college students have been rising for 25
> years, according to a recent study led by a San Diego State University
> psychologist. Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this.
> But as Prof. Chance sees it, "he's representative of a culture of
> excessive doting."
>
> Prof. Chance teaches many Asian-born students, and says they accept
> whatever grade they're given; they see B's and C's as an indication
> that they must work harder, and that their elders assessed them
> accurately. They didn't grow up with Mr. Rogers or anyone else telling
> them they were born special.
>
> By contrast, American students often view lower grades as a reason to
> "hit you up for an A because they came to class and feel they worked
> hard," says Prof. Chance. He wishes more parents would offer kids this
> perspective: "The world owes you nothing. You have to work and
> compete. If you want to be special, you'll have to prove it."
>
> "They're just children." When kids are rude, self-absorbed or
> disrespectful, some parents allow or endure it by saying, "Well,
> they're just children." The phrase is a worthy one when it's applied
> to a teachable moment, such as telling kids not to stick their fingers
> in electrical sockets. But as an excuse or as justification for
> unacceptable behavior, "They're just children" is just misguided.
>
> "Call me Cindy." Is it appropriate to place kids on the same level as
> adults, with all of us calling each other by our first names? On one
> hand, the familiarity can mark a loving closeness between child and
> adult. But on the other hand, when a child calls an adult Mr. or Ms.,
> it helps him recognize that status is earned by age and experience.
> It's also a reminder to respect your elders.
>
> "Tell me about your day." It is crucial to talk to kids about their
> lives, and that dialogue can enrich the whole family. However, parents
> also need to discuss their own lives and experiences, says Alvin
> Rosenfeld, a Manhattan-based child psychiatrist who studies family
> interactions.
>
> In America today, life often begins with the anointing of "His
> Majesty, the Fetus," he says. From then on, many parents focus their
> conversations on their kids. Today's parents "are the best-educated
> generation ever," says Dr. Rosenfeld. "So why do our kids see us
> primarily discussing kids' schedules and activities?"
>
> He encourages parents to talk about their passions and interests;
> about politics, business, world events. "Because everything is child-
> centered today, we're depriving children of adults," he says. "If they
> never see us as adults being adults, how will they deal with important
> matters when it is their world?"
>
> Write to Jeffrey Zaslow at jeffrey...@wsj.com
>
>
This is not about me so I didn't read it.
--
trippy
mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM
NP: "So She's Leaving" -- The Trews
"What did I tell the kid. It's about how hard you can get hit,
and keep moving forward. It's about how much you can take,
and keep moving forward. Get up."
-- Sylvester Stallone "Rocky Balboa"
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> typed:
It's typical Sockdust. Don't mind him, he's just happy that someone's paying
attention to him long enough to read his delusions of grandeur and his
half-assed attempts at humor and/or personal attacks
SawDust
Well, you and Nate seem to enjoy posting ad hominem attacks, so I thought I
would return the favor and give you both a taste of your own medicine. You
two better watch out; I do not suffer fools gladly.
SawDust
"mich" <s...@doo.what> wrote in message
There must be a lot of traumatized dogs in his area.
BTR1701
"SawDust" <mains...@hotmail.com> wrote:
The phrase "ad hominem" doesn't mean what you apparently think it does.
My response to you was not an ad hominem in any sense of the word. Just
because someone disagrees with you, does not make what they say an ad
hominem.
SawDust
<snip>
>Just
> because someone disagrees with you, does not make what they say an ad
> hominem.
True, but you need to remember that you included an insulting jab in the
aforementioned post.
BTR1701
"SawDust" <mains...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Merely being insulting is also not an ad hominem.
SawDust
Exactly my point. You insulted me in an effort to give your argument
credence. Hence, the existence of the ad hominem attack on your part.
BTR1701
"SawDust" <mains...@hotmail.com> wrote:
First, it wasn't actually an insult. I merely asked why the simple
consequences of skipping school that have been in place for decades are
so hard for you to grasp. Since you kept asking for what should have
been obvious to you over and over again, it was a legitimate question to
ask. The fact that you found it insulting is not my fault and should
have been a clue that maybe you were either being purposely obtuse or
missing something quite basic.
As for saying it to "give my argument credence", well
(1) I wasn't making an argument. I posted a statement of fact.
(2) I said what I said because you were annoying me. I didn't need
credence since I had the virtue of being accurate.
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
SawDust <mains...@hotmail.com> typed:
> "BTR1701" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> Decades? You must be a dumb kid, just like Nate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, yes. An ad hominem, and a nonsensical one at that. I'll give
>>>>>> you the
>>>>>> benefit of the doubt and just assume you're not bright enough to
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> understood what was said.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, you and Nate seem to enjoy posting ad hominem attacks
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> Just
>>>> because someone disagrees with you, does not make what they say an
>>>> ad hominem.
>>>
>>> True, but you need to remember that you included an insulting jab
>>> in the aforementioned post.
>>
>> Merely being insulting is also not an ad hominem.
>
> Exactly my point. You insulted me in an effort to give your argument
> credence. Hence, the existence of the ad hominem attack on your part.
BTR... you just destroyed him. I'd say job well done, but you're not the
first and certainly not the last. It's quite fun making him look like an
idiot, though. For example, see above post.
William December Starr
trippy <silve...@tacoshells.com> said:
> This is not about me so I didn't read it.
[ applause ]
--
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
SawDust
I was, in fact, making reference to this post:
"Ah, yes. An ad hominem, and a nonsensical one at that. I'll give you the
benefit of the doubt and just assume you're not bright enough to have
understood what was said."
You insulted me by arguing that I was not bright enough to understand that
your self-serving declarations were indeed factual. Classic ad hominem.
Moreover, just because you declare something as fact, doesn't make it
necessarily so. Instead of providing substantive proof in support of your
allegations, you chose to insult me instead.
I await your apology. :-)
SawDust
You and BTR just embarrass yourselves when you attempt to appear
intelligent. Good luck getting into Harvard or Yale!
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
SawDust <mains...@hotmail.com> typed:
You'd know plenty about embarrassing oneself when trying to look smart,
wouldn't you? Oh, and to set the record straight, I wouldn't waste my time
at Harvard or Yale. I'm not saying they're not good colleges, I'm saying
that it's ridiculous for anyone to think they would need to go there to get
a real job, when in fact it just makes you look like an ass when anyone asks
what college you went to. Not to mention the nearly $200,000 it costs for 4
years there. You'd have to be an idiot to waste that kind of money on a
SCHOOL when you could use it on a house.
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
SawDust <mains...@hotmail.com> typed:
You're incredible. Yes, mark it on your calendar... I called you incredible.
Of course, not for a good reason, just for you being so thick-headed that
you continue to try to spin this in your favor while making yourself look
ridiculous. He "insulted" you only after you said "You must be a dumb kid,
just like Nate." Therefore, YOUR reply was an ad hominem, his(?) was nowhere
close. Why? Because the only thing you did was attack him to try to make a
point (while failing miserably, of course), and he made you look like a fool
for being so classless and lacking any real substance in your reply.
Congratulations. You're STILL a useless dolt.
BTR1701
"SawDust" <mains...@hotmail.com> wrote:
LOL! Son, I don't need to get into anywhere. I've already graduated
college and gone on to earn a doctorate in law. I'm out in the real
world earning a living.
Go back to your Xbox and leave the debate to the adults.
SawDust
My post was in response to Nate's commentary.
I wish you the best with your doctorate in law and your proposal that you
are "out in the real world" earning a living.
SawDust
Why debate the issue? Your family is poor and your SATs will only get you
into some community college.
BTR1701
"SawDust" <mains...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Nope, you threw me in there with him when you started your response with
"You and BTR..."
SawDust
My post was in response to Nate's commentary. You can tell because my usenet
client quoted the text that he posted.
Have fun with your doctorate in law. :P
SawDust
When did I ever claim that ad hominem's weren't awesome? It's your butt
buddy who got his panties in a knot over the issue.
At the end of the day, I think we can all agree that you and your pal are
just dumb young kids who don't know what the hell they are talking about.
BTR1701
"SawDust" <mains...@hotmail.com> wrote:
And you mentioned me. This is another of those obvious things you can't
seem to grasp.
cuh...@webtv.net
something.
Nepotism!,,, all kinds of isims.
cuhulin
cuh...@webtv.net
Wull
anything is a huge pile of horse shit!
Wull: who was in high school with Mr. Rogers. He was the least innocuous
person I have ever met in my life either before or since.
"BTR1701" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-95FF83...@news.giganews.com...
BTR1701
"Wull" <wma...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Pardon my French: But I think this whole thread blaming Mr. Rogers for
> anything is a huge pile of horse shit!
>
> Wull: who was in high school with Mr. Rogers. He was the least innocuous
> person I have ever met in my life either before or since.
Least innocuous? Either you don't understand what the word innocuous
means or Fred Rogers did a masterful job fooling us all these years.
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
For the last time, dipshit.. a 1390 (out of 1600.. 2090/2400) can get me
into any college I want. Thanks, try again.
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
Wull <wma...@sbcglobal.net> typed:
> Pardon my French: But I think this whole thread blaming Mr. Rogers
> for anything is a huge pile of horse shit!
No.. it's actually almost completely on the money. Mr Roger's way of
thinking is exactly what screwed over the kids of today. I love the guy, but
parents suck incredibly hard, and it's partly (aka... 15%ish) because of him
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
SawDust <mains...@hotmail.com> typed:
Who said anything about awesome? Not that this is the first time you've
pulled things out of your ass.
> It's your
> butt buddy who got his panties in a knot over the issue.
>
> At the end of the day, I think we can all agree that you and your pal
> are just dumb young kids who don't know what the hell they are
> talking about.
You're pathetic.
Scott
@news.qwest.net:
>
> 1390 on the newer dumbed-down SAT isn't anything to brag about, kid.
>
Wow- the kids help you understand how big that number really is or did they
tell you how many hands and feet you'd need to count that high on your own?
Bob Barnett
> Except for those colleges that don't care about the SAT and want an ACT
> score.
>
> 1390 on the newer dumbed-down SAT isn't anything to brag about, kid.
>
This from a guy that couldn't get into college
Angry bloated loser
the Bede
> > for anything is a huge pile of horse shit!
>
> thinking is exactly what screwed over the kids of today. I love the guy,
but
> parents suck incredibly hard, and it's partly (aka... 15%ish) because of
him
>
>
Lily
person I have ever met in my life either before or since. >>
<<Least innocuous? Either you don't understand what the word innocuous
means or Fred Rogers did a masterful job fooling us all these years.>>
Believe it or not, the opposite of innocuous is noccuous. Of course,
you could just say "harmless" but that's not as much fun.
Lily
SFTVratings
An Even Smarter Ape Than Smart Ape wrote:
> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118358476840657463.html
>
> Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
> Young Adults Feel So Entitled
> July 5, 2007; Page B5
>
> Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it
> dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual,
> students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra
> points needed to lift their grades to A's.
>
> "They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me.
> We can blame Mr. Rogers."
Ehhh. Blame the parents. If the parents had learned to say "no" (as
my parents did), then today's young adults would have learned you
don't always get everything you want.
I grew up with Mr. Rogers.
But I certainly don't think I'm "special just because I'm me". I
learned from my WW2-era parents that if I want something, I have to
MAKE it happen...... and if I don't make it happen, no one's going to
give it to me. (No one's going to give me a free A.)
> Signs of narcissism among college students have been rising for 25
> years, according to a recent study led by a San Diego State University
> psychologist. Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this.
> But as Prof. Chance sees it, "he's representative of a culture of
> excessive doting."
>
> Prof. Chance teaches many Asian-born students, and says they accept
> whatever grade they're given; they see B's and C's as an indication
> that they must work harder, and that their elders assessed them
> accurately. They didn't grow up with Mr. Rogers or anyone else telling
> them they were born special.
SFTVratings
the Bede wrote:
> >a finance professor
> >at Louisiana State University
> >
Ad hominem attack.
i.e. Judging someone, not on the merits of their argument, but on
their Title/Position. If this were the 1800s, it would be called
classism. ("Don't listen to him; he's just a commoner. Only ideas
from nobility matter.")
Don't be prejudiced.
§¦«The Wraith»¦§
SFTVratings <SFTVrati...@yahoo.com> typed:
> An Even Smarter Ape Than Smart Ape wrote:
>> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118358476840657463.html
>>
>> Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
>> Young Adults Feel So Entitled
>> July 5, 2007; Page B5
>>
>> Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says
>> it dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual,
>> students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra
>> points needed to lift their grades to A's.
>>
>> "They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me.
>> We can blame Mr. Rogers."
>
>
>
>
> Ehhh. Blame the parents. If the parents had learned to say "no" (as
> my parents did), then today's young adults would have learned you
> don't always get everything you want.
>
> I grew up with Mr. Rogers.
>
> But I certainly don't think I'm "special just because I'm me". I
> learned from my WW2-era parents that if I want something, I have to
> MAKE it happen...... and if I don't make it happen, no one's going to
> give it to me. (No one's going to give me a free A.)
Parents are to blame, as was said later in the article. But as I've
passingly mentioned, when I was in elementary school they used the same
logic that Mr Rogers was teaching us, "everyone's special." There's too much
ego-stroking in childhood now. Somewhere in Pennsylvania there's a school
district that went from A-F letter grades to (don't quote me on the letters,
it's the principal that matters) an S for Satisfactory or an N for Needs
improvement. TWO grades. No one stands out, no one gets what they deserve,
and "most importantly" no one gets their feelings hurt. If kids don't get
their feelings hurt only on, when they have no idea how the real world is,
they're just not going to make it through life. The first time they fail,
they won't know how to fix it/how to deal with it. That district is setting
themselves up for disaster.
SawDust
There was a school district somewhere in Montreal that used smiley faces in
lieu of actual grades. Personally, I think all grading should be done on a
non-adjusted numerical basis. Unfortunately, most teachers, principals and
school administrators are too lazy to devise standard criteria which would
make those grades meaningful. The S & N scheme that you described is
obviously much easier to implement and I suppose the argument for its use is
to ensure that no child suffers any psychological "trauma". I guess it also
helps to reduce the number of irate parents who demand to know why their
children are failing. The end result is a bunch of semi-illiterate children
who possess great self-esteem. As you suggested, it's a recipe for disaster.
the Bede
"SFTVratings" <SFTVrati...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1184070754.1...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
SawDust
1390 is rather ordinary. Unless your GPA is awesome and/or you are involved
in a lot of extra-curricular activities, don't bother applying to Harvard.
For your sake, I hope you enjoy the smell of grilled hamburgers.
SawDust
My post was in response to Nate's commentary. Don't deny the obvious.
SawDust
"Chad Bryant" <rs...@chadbryant.net> wrote in message
news:4693cda0$0$514$815e...@news.qwest.net...
> will satisfy some prereq at the local juco, and not much else.
Yep, and of course we also have to factor in his inevitably mediocre GPA. I
hope his dad is letting him practice flipping burgers on the family gas
grill.
SawDust
> In news:v3Bki.37566$YL5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net,
> Wull <wma...@sbcglobal.net> typed:
>> for anything is a huge pile of horse shit!
>
> thinking is exactly what screwed over the kids of today. I love the guy,
> but parents suck incredibly hard, and it's partly (aka... 15%ish) because
> of him
Don't consider this a flame; but I watched Mr. Rogers as a kid and I never
got the impression that he was trying to make me feel special. I basically
admired his vast selection of sweaters (in a totally non-fag way), the
trains and of course, all of the morons who visited him. Mr. Rogers owned
his neighborhood and nobody can deny this. I never -- ever -- adopted any
sense of entitlement due to something Rogers may have said. It's time to
stop placing the blame on parents and TV for every little transgression. I
mean, let's face it, you are a little opinionated asshole. It's not your
parent's fault that you are that way.