Clumpy Poop

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greg_...@bigfoot.com

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Jul 30, 2002, 8:51:34 PM7/30/02
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We recenctly acquired some goats and they have "clumpy poop." While I
don't pretend to be the expert, I understand that this condition is
"not good."

These are young neubian does (3-4 mths) and we have wormed them twice
and are feeding goat developer pellets, horse/mule sweet feed, hay,
and browse.

What should I be looking for or adjusting to remedy this problem?

They had this problem when we got them and I have adjusted their diet
to the above to correct it but in the last 6-8 weeks since we got them
they still have bad poop.

What do we do next?

Greg

Neil Touchet

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Jul 31, 2002, 9:33:40 AM7/31/02
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Greg,

You said you "recently" acquired these goats.

How recent? Any change in feed or environment causes stress which, in turn,
can cause the condition you discribe.

If they were mine, I would limit the "sweet feed" and give each a
Pepto-Bismol tablet twice a day.

You should see in improvement in a few days. If not, it's time to consult
with you vet.

Hope this helps.

Neil

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greg_...@bigfoot.com

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Jul 31, 2002, 11:02:35 AM7/31/02
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>You said you "recently" acquired these goats.
>
>How recent? Any change in feed or environment causes stress which, in turn,
>can cause the condition you discribe.

We have had them approx. 3-4 weeks. They were on goat pellets before
we got them. I added the sweet feed upon the advice of a friend who
raises goats. They weren't getting hay before and I added that for
roughage.

>If they were mine, I would limit the "sweet feed" and give each a
>Pepto-Bismol tablet twice a day.

Does the sweet feed often cause this problem or is it the change in
diet? They have had the bad poop since before I brought them home and
adjusted their diet hoping to cure the problem. Also, since they
don't have diarrhea, I would think the pepto might make matters worse
since it causes digestion to slow. Have you used it before for this
problem in your goats?

I do appreciate your taking the time to help.

Thanks

Greg

Jader

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Aug 1, 2002, 12:29:05 AM8/1/02
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> We have had them approx. 3-4 weeks. They were on goat pellets before
> we got them. I added the sweet feed upon the advice of a friend who
> raises goats. They weren't getting hay before and I added that for
> roughage.

<snip for space>

> Does the sweet feed often cause this problem or is it the change in
> diet? They have had the bad poop since before I brought them home and
> adjusted their diet hoping to cure the problem. Also, since they
> don't have diarrhea, I would think the pepto might make matters worse
> since it causes digestion to slow. Have you used it before for this
> problem in your goats?

There's really no reason to give them formulated for horses sweet feed
on top of a balanced goat ration (unless it's not a balanced ration),
other than appease their sweet tooth. If anything, you wind up
screwing up the mix because horses have significantly different
dietary needs than goats. The protien on Hi Pro Horse & Mule is way
too low for young, growing goats, for starters. 10% protien, 2% fat,
selenium is just .1 ppm, and the copper is 10 ppm. Compare that to a
balanced ration suitable for growing kids, of 18% protien, 3-5% fat,
.3ppm selenium, and copper at .16 to .25 ppm, and you can see why
adding a horse feed to a goat feed just drags the balance out of
whack. Just give them a balanced ration formulated for growing goats,
and provide them with access to goat minerals like Sweet Lix or
Springbriar, and plenty of hay to keep their rumen working properly.

As for the bad poop, it could be a number of reasons, but the fact
that it's been around before you got them and persists 3-4 weeks later
tells me it's more than just a recent change in feed. Do you know the
last time they were treated for cocci? A lot of producers never treat
for this, and given their young age, it's quite possible they have
just enough to goop the poop, but not enough to make them scour. Or,
as you said, they were not getting hay before. I don't know if you
mean they had no roughage at all, or if they were on pasture but not
getting hay. If they were not getting _any_ roughage at all and were
only grained, it will screw up their rumens, which could be the cause
of the goopy poops. Some probiotics (or even just some plain yogurt)
should help get their rumens back in working order. Even show people
who withhold hay to keep off the hay bellies will feed hay once a week
instead of grain to keep everything working properly.

Good luck
Jade
Outlaw Boers
http://www.outlawboers.com

Neil Touchet

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Aug 1, 2002, 11:38:20 AM8/1/02
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Greg,

Yes, my vet recommended the Pepto for the exact same problem after fecal
sample tested negative for cocci.

Sometimes you just need to slow digestion enough so that "berries" and not
clumps form.

The fact that this has been going on for a while points to either diet or
parasites. Get them tested for cocci to be sure. If negative I would cut out
the sweet feed and bulk them up on hay.

Neil

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Priestes

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Aug 2, 2002, 1:57:09 PM8/2/02
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I have been watching the list for sometime but thought I would post some
insight here to the problem Greg is having with the clumpy poop.
Greg stated in one of the posts they had not been on hay. They had been
getting pellets. This alone will cause a problem changing them over to fast
from one feed to another. And if they had not been getting hay at all their
system is not use to be fed grain nor hay.

I raise Nubians and have for some years. I have also had Saanens in the
past. Changing any feed without mixing will cause a problem in their
systems.

What type of Hay are you giving them? Are they on pasture? Is the pasture
green? On grain my kids get very little, my goats get none except when
milking or older does, and the bucks get grain only when in rut. I give only
a 12% feed and feed a good alfalfa to the animals. If feeding grasshay grain
can be supplemented but I have found that they do fine on a good dry cob.
Meaning without the molasses. They should be getting more hay then grain.

If you are feeding a richer hay you might consider getting them a average
quality grasshay and cutting their grain back.

When you wormed what did you use for wormer and at what dosage? You may not
be treating the problem if the dosage was incorrect or if the wormer was not
specified for the type of worm the goats have. Have you done a fecal with
the vets office to check for worms and cocci? Older animals can have cocci
just as well as young animals....

Suzanne

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gpe...@peoplescom.net

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Aug 2, 2002, 10:19:20 PM8/2/02
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I appreciate all the input from everyone. In the effort to answer
questions from everyone let me just say:

-they had "clumpy poop" when I got them.
-they were wormed the day i got them and again in 10 days
-they were in a fairly small pen (50' x 50') that was barren of any
greenery
-they weren't being fed hay
-since I brought them home they have been fed mostly on goat starter
ration (pellets) that are medicated against cocci, about 25% sweet
feed, and all the hay they can eat
-they are penned and can't graze
-they get baled hay (coastal bermuda) brush I cut and toss into the
pen
-they all look and act healthy and lively, but still have bad poop
-I haven't been able to get samples to the vet yet

I will cut out the sweet feed and see the vet, but here's another
question...so I need samples from all, or will a single sample
generally be representative of the herd?

Also, just how "fresh" does it need to be? ...I really don't want to
have to follow them around, if you know what I mean!

Thanks again,

Greg

Priestes

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Aug 3, 2002, 12:25:04 AM8/3/02
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Greg,
My vet preferred samples that were picked up from the group. So a few here
and there put in a plastic bag, put in fridge if you cant get fresh in right
away, but the fresher the better.

What did you worm with and at what dosage?? Also the medicated feed may be
causing the problem. I would suggest cutting it out for a few days and see
if that is where your problem might be. If these goats have had no hay and
limited grain their whole systems have been thrown off...

Two suggestions... Offer baking soda free choice to them and get some
probias and give them all a good dose of probias. If you want to try
something herbal I can recommend an herbal remedy for several days that
works on cocci and worms and should help. But it would have to be given as a
drench for five days to each animal.

Suzanne
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