Instituto Cervantes
Lynx
Gib, also, what is, or will be, its address, and how does one go about
subscribing to it.
Un cordial saludo,
M
Jim Watt
>Could anyone tell me when will the Instituto Cervantes be up and running in
>Gib
Manana :)
will post full info and pictures when it happens. Don't
hold your breath.
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
news:A_Y1h.56928$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
When - no idea
What is it - no idea
Where will it be - no idea
Subscription - no idea.
Furthermore, could NOT care less. Frankly would prefer it didn't come. Wise
folk will steer clear of it, IMHO. Why? Because it is seen as an organ of
the Sp state.
K
Lynx
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eiauc...@news1.newsguy.com...
Oops! My, my. How can a cultured Gibbo be blinded by "politically induced
hatred"? Education and culture's one thing, politics' for the pollies!
I'd like to know when, where and how many will subscribe. Hey, no skin off
my nose, the Instituto's everywhere! Take it easy, only 400,000,000 people
speak the language.
M
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
news:60shk29ui43lolumj...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 08:34:40 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>
>>Could anyone tell me when will the Instituto Cervantes be up and running
>>in
>>Gib
>
> Manana :)
>
> will post full info and pictures when it happens. Don't
> hold your breath.
Bot mañana nevorr coms! Gracias!
M
Jim Watt
Ah but its spelt differently here, and may take longer.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
Seriously, I'm interested in seeing what the response is once the centre of
leaning's up and running. As for those detractors, they should take notice
that one can still sit for GCE's O and A levels in Spanish, am I right?
M
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:eiauc...@news1.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>> news:A_Y1h.56928$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>> Could anyone tell me when will the Instituto Cervantes be up and running
>>> in Gib, also, what is, or will be, its address, and how does one go
>>> about subscribing to it.
>>> Un cordial saludo,
>>
>> When - no idea
>> What is it - no idea
>> Where will it be - no idea
>> Subscription - no idea.
>>
>> Furthermore, could NOT care less. Frankly would prefer it didn't come.
>> Wise folk will steer clear of it, IMHO. Why? Because it is seen as an
>> organ of the Sp state.
>
> Oops! My, my. How can a cultured Gibbo be blinded by "politically induced
> hatred"? Education and culture's one thing, politics' for the pollies!
First, you assume I'm cultured. I emind you I am extensively EDUCATED, but
culture? Art? What's that for? Does it go well with apple sauce? I remind
you that I'm the one who you admonished for not likeing Cervantes (as in the
institute) Goya, Lorca etc thinking it was a political stance, until I
informed you I was unmoved by Shakespeare, Hardy, Tennison etc.
Unfortunately perhaps, in Gib the politics as regards our neighbours,
because of THEIR own making, is all-pervasive. I suspect IF they come they
will become the focus of some acts one would rather not have occurred. For
the sake of public order, I wish they'd stay away.
> I'd like to know when, where and how many will subscribe. Hey, no skin off
> my nose, the Instituto's everywhere! Take it easy, only 400,000,000 people
> speak the language.
Which means nothing. At one time even more folk believed the world was flat!
Also, how many flies eat doo-doo? Does that make it desireable? :))
K
Jim Watt
>Seriously, I'm interested in seeing what the response is once the centre of
>leaning's up and running. As for those detractors, they should take notice
>that one can still sit for GCE's O and A levels in Spanish, am I right?
I'll give you a progress report on the center, and also
the ferry from algeciras promised under the lisbon agreement
which should be operating real soon now.
O and A levels are part of the British educational system
and Spanish is taught as a foreign language along with French
and Mandarin.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
No, strictly speaking. The GCSE exam was replaced in he early 80s and no
longer exists, similarly with the CSE. What currently exists is the GCSE -
pedantic nut that I can be!
K
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
system of education that would mean using the word Enquire instead?
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
>
>
> No, strictly speaking. The GCSE exam was replaced in he early 80s and no
> longer exists, similarly with the CSE. What currently exists is the GCSE -
> pedantic nut that I can be!
>
> K
>
The GCSE exam was replaced by the GCSE exam? I think not.
Ken
"JimmyGibby" <Seeu Ji...@jock.net> wrote in message
news:cL-dnUCntPnR_tfY...@pipex.net...
OOPS! GCE and CSE both replaced by GCSE. That's it!
K
Ken
TV - and I don't mean Tuvalu. I mean Buffy the Vampire Slayer and other such
drivel. Though Cordelia IS something else!
K
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
You mean Jim Watt!
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:g4h2h.57391$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:eiauc...@news1.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>>> news:A_Y1h.56928$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>> Could anyone tell me when will the Instituto Cervantes be up and
>>>> running in Gib, also, what is, or will be, its address, and how does
>>>> one go about subscribing to it.
>>>> Un cordial saludo,
>>>
>>> When - no idea
>>> What is it - no idea
>>> Where will it be - no idea
>>> Subscription - no idea.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, could NOT care less. Frankly would prefer it didn't come.
>>> Wise folk will steer clear of it, IMHO. Why? Because it is seen as an
>>> organ of the Sp state.
>>
>> Oops! My, my. How can a cultured Gibbo be blinded by "politically induced
>> hatred"? Education and culture's one thing, politics' for the pollies!
>
> First, you assume I'm cultured. I emind you I am extensively EDUCATED, but
> culture? Art? What's that for? Does it go well with apple sauce? I remind
> you that I'm the one who you admonished for not likeing Cervantes (as in
> the institute) Goya, Lorca etc thinking it was a political stance, until I
> informed you I was unmoved by Shakespeare, Hardy, Tennison etc.
I find myself obliged to remind you that you seem to have a rather shallow
concept of what entails to be cultured. The mere fact that you can
eloquently express yourself, is evidence that you are educated and cultured.
I (was forced to) read Shakepeare or Marlowe or whoever the sod really
turned out to be. Incidentally, for one who claims to be in the dark about
culture, you surely know your authors!
> Unfortunately perhaps, in Gib the politics as regards our neighbours,
> because of THEIR own making, is all-pervasive. I suspect IF they come they
> will become the focus of some acts one would rather not have occurred. For
> the sake of public order, I wish they'd stay away.
You speak as if schizophrenia or paranoia were a common affliction in Gib!
By definition, so long as there are complains about "long queues" at the
border, the people in Gib have a need, and want, to go to Spain. Why this
subversive "pseudo-hatred" and expectation of there being any risk to public
order? Short of refering to "hire a crowd", there's no logical reason why an
educational istitute should not be welcomed.
>> I'd like to know when, where and how many will subscribe. Hey, no skin
>> off my nose, the Instituto's everywhere! Take it easy, only 400,000,000
>> people speak the language.
>
> Which means nothing. At one time even more folk believed the world was
> flat! Also, how many flies eat doo-doo? Does that make it desireable? :))
No, it doesn't, but like a Scotish freind of mine says, "if you don't sh1t,
you die" :)
M
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:ntq2h.57612$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> of leaning's up and running. As for those detractors, they should take
>> notice that one can still sit for GCE's O and A levels in Spanish, am I
>> right?
>
> No, strictly speaking. The GCSE exam was replaced in he early 80s and no
> longer exists, similarly with the CSE. What currently exists is the GCSE -
> pedantic nut that I can be!
You know yourself too well! :)
http://www.cie.org.uk/CIE/WebSite/search/veritysearch.do
M
Lynx
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 18:07:15 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>
>>Seriously, I'm interested in seeing what the response is once the centre
>>of
>>leaning's up and running. As for those detractors, they should take notice
>>that one can still sit for GCE's O and A levels in Spanish, am I right?
>
> I'll give you a progress report on the center, and also
> the ferry from algeciras promised under the lisbon agreement
> which should be operating real soon now.
Perhaps you're better off without a direct link to Algeciras. There could be
a security issue there.
> O and A levels are part of the British educational system
> and Spanish is taught as a foreign language along with French
> and Mandarin.
Absolute. Mind you, at the rate they're going (UK) English langauge might
soon join the ranks! :)
M
Lynx
Because British English is fast becoming a foreign langauge in Britain!! :)
M
Lynx
>> Then why do you use Americanisms such as Inquire rather then the British
>> system of education that would mean using the word Enquire instead?
>
> TV - and I don't mean Tuvalu. I mean Buffy the Vampire Slayer and other
> such drivel. Though Cordelia IS something else!
Anyone who watches that kind of crap need their head read! Anyone who lets
their kids watch it needs help!
M
Jim Watt
>From your all too obvious lack of education, you must have been
>'bunking-off' somewhere.
He probably spent his school years behind the
bike sheds wanking.
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 05:28:05 +0000, luc...@eternal-flames.gov wrote:
>
>>From your all too obvious lack of education, you must have been
>>'bunking-off' somewhere.
>
> He probably spent his school years behind the
> bike sheds wanking.
I hate to think what you were doing oh Transgendered one! Not learning
about Americanisms in the English language for sure.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
Agree - but Cordelia (esp in the later series of Angel) ranks way up there
along with Rommie from Andromeda and Seven of Nine from Star Trek Voyager.
Yours drooling,
Ken
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
You have to know yourself well in order to know when it is you're having a
good idea, and when frankly you're just mad.
Ken
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
How do you know you don't like them unless you read them? No, culture was
the wrong word. Replace CULTURE with ART in my posts.
>
>> Unfortunately perhaps, in Gib the politics as regards our neighbours,
>> because of THEIR own making, is all-pervasive. I suspect IF they come
>> they will become the focus of some acts one would rather not have
>> occurred. For the sake of public order, I wish they'd stay away.
>
> You speak as if schizophrenia or paranoia were a common affliction in Gib!
> By definition, so long as there are complains about "long queues" at the
> border, the people in Gib have a need, and want, to go to Spain. Why this
> subversive "pseudo-hatred" and expectation of there being any risk to
> public order? Short of refering to "hire a crowd", there's no logical
> reason why an educational istitute should not be welcomed.
Well, the Sp have spoken that their flag will once more fly in Gib. Many
have been heard to mutter that it had best fly indoors, as outdoors it will
not survive. You do not need to rent-a-crowd. The crowd is offering its
services for free.
>
>>> I'd like to know when, where and how many will subscribe. Hey, no skin
>>> off my nose, the Instituto's everywhere! Take it easy, only 400,000,000
>>> people speak the language.
>>
>> Which means nothing. At one time even more folk believed the world was
>> flat! Also, how many flies eat doo-doo? Does that make it desireable? :))
>
> No, it doesn't, but like a Scotish freind of mine says, "if you don't
> sh1t, you die" :)
I once met a lady from Morningside in Edinburgh. I didn't know at the time,
but I do now and will tell you that Morningside is THE poshest end of
Edinburgh. Because of the natue of our meeting (and you know what it is I do
for a living) I was asking the lady if there had been any changes in her gut
movements of late. After much discomfort on her part, she assured me "Young
man, I am from Morningside. I DO NOT pass wind!"
K
Lynx
Treading on very fine ground here. Do you hate anyone who may have a good
command of Spanish?
M
Lynx
Lookout for the men in white!
M
Jim Watt
>On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 17:57:11 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>
>>Lookout for the men in white!
>>M
>
>
>In the big white speedboats? ;-)
I begin to suspect you are an alter ego of
Jim Stewart, as he has been far too quiet.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
hmmm. . . . . let's see, where to start? I mean, the list is so long!! How
about Fraznar and every leader of the PP they've ever had, the leaders of
the PSOE aren't much better with the current Shoemaker being the most
obvious one to except from this generality if at all, every foreign minister
they've ever had, Franco of course, the bloke on his caballito blanco who
said he was going to lay waste to Gib so that grass would grow in Main St
(there's a statue of him somewhere in Granada or Seville or somewhere close
by), wash and sweep (Frag - you know who, "frega y barre"). It could go on
and on and on an on and on and on ad nauseum.
Having said that there are many excellent speakers of Sp who I hold in great
admiration. For all I don't like their literature (or anyone else's), Spain
has given birth to a few OK poets and a few OK artists. Salvador who used to
sell salaitos and toffee apples was v nice, as is Salvador my colleague here
in the UK (but he's from Chile, so though he speaks v good Sp he's not Sp,
so I suppose doesn't count in this poll). Curiously there was another
Salvador in Leeds who I got on with famously, from Barcelona. This list too
could go on and on you know. Oh, mustn't forget Diego from Almeria who said
it was best if Spain kept out of Gib, for if nothing else it would open a
can of worms for Spain constitutionally were Spain's borders to be seen as
malleable. Quite sage for a bloke aged 26 or so.
So, why do you ask?
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
They're coming to take me away, ha ha, hee hee . . . .
You know the song?
K
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
Something like Napolean the 14th, the first song I remember and learnt the
words to when I was about 5.
Here's a question for you, what was the B-side?
Jim Watt
>No. I'm not Scottish.
can you prove that beyond all reasonable doubt ?
Jim Watt
wrote:
There were actually three releases by Napoleon XIV to
give him his correct title;
The version reaching number four in the UK charts in August 1966 had
a B side of the record of the title track backwards
Other releases were
"They're coming to take me away ha ha/Photogenic, Schizophrenic You"
"They're coming to take me away/They're Coming to get me again"
its in the alt.gibraltar FAQ
Ken
No idea! What was the B side to Funky Moped?
Ken
Jim Stewart
> >>No. I'm not Scottish.
> >
> >can you prove that beyond all reasonable doubt ?
>
>
> Nick.
you are as mean as a Scotsman anyway the way you pay poor Tox ........
Lynx
Right, so the other half of Spain who suffered, much more than "words", from
these individuals you mention, are just as bad. You seem to speak Spanish.
> Having said that there are many excellent speakers of Sp who I hold in
> great admiration. For all I don't like their literature (or anyone
> else's), Spain has given birth to a few OK poets and a few OK artists.
> Salvador who used to sell salaitos and toffee apples was v nice, as is
> Salvador my colleague here in the UK (but he's from Chile, so though he
> speaks v good Sp he's not Sp, so I suppose doesn't count in this poll).
> Curiously there was another Salvador in Leeds who I got on with famously,
> from Barcelona. This list too could go on and on you know. Oh, mustn't
> forget Diego from Almeria who said it was best if Spain kept out of Gib,
> for if nothing else it would open a can of worms for Spain
> constitutionally were Spain's borders to be seen as malleable. Quite sage
> for a bloke aged 26 or so.
There's no poll. The question was whether you hate everyone who speaks
Spanish. The obvious answer, given your reply, is NO.
Chileans are all over the place, they're a good lot, but don't let this
colleague of yours call you "huevon". That's a saying of theirs :)
Ah, yes, Salvador de los pirulines! And wasn't he an artist! The way he'd
prepare, present and serve his "delicias"?
> So, why do you ask?
Just felt like triggering you off!
M
Lynx
<luc...@eternal-flames.gov> wrote in message
news:d51nk2pva955413hm...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 17:57:11 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>
>>M
>
>
Hmm.. them too?
M
Lynx
Yep! You get it!!
M
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
Nothing beat the lyrics to "I was Kaiser Bill's Batman"
M
Lynx
I once said to you, you have "mas salida que un torero" And I'm not getting
down of the donkey!
>>> Unfortunately perhaps, in Gib the politics as regards our neighbours,
>>> because of THEIR own making, is all-pervasive. I suspect IF they come
>>> they will become the focus of some acts one would rather not have
>>> occurred. For the sake of public order, I wish they'd stay away.
>>
>> You speak as if schizophrenia or paranoia were a common affliction in
>> Gib! By definition, so long as there are complains about "long queues" at
>> the border, the people in Gib have a need, and want, to go to Spain. Why
>> this subversive "pseudo-hatred" and expectation of there being any risk
>> to public order? Short of refering to "hire a crowd", there's no logical
>> reason why an educational istitute should not be welcomed.
>
> Well, the Sp have spoken that their flag will once more fly in Gib. Many
> have been heard to mutter that it had best fly indoors, as outdoors it
> will not survive. You do not need to rent-a-crowd. The crowd is offering
> its services for free.
What crowd? The same crowed that'll queue up to 3 hours to cross over the
border into Spain? Not likely. Our flag, the Castle and Key is Spanish. In
case you've forgotten. What about our intelligentsia residing in Spain?
>>>> I'd like to know when, where and how many will subscribe. Hey, no skin
>>>> off my nose, the Instituto's everywhere! Take it easy, only 400,000,000
>>>> people speak the language.
>>>
>>> Which means nothing. At one time even more folk believed the world was
>>> flat! Also, how many flies eat doo-doo? Does that make it desireable?
>>> :))
>>
>> No, it doesn't, but like a Scotish freind of mine says, "if you don't
>> sh1t, you die" :)
>
> I once met a lady from Morningside in Edinburgh. I didn't know at the
> time, but I do now and will tell you that Morningside is THE poshest end
> of Edinburgh. Because of the natue of our meeting (and you know what it is
> I do for a living) I was asking the lady if there had been any changes in
> her gut movements of late. After much discomfort on her part, she assured
> me "Young man, I am from Morningside. I DO NOT pass wind!"
Uhh! There's a posh side in Scotland? BTW, what's passing wind a symptom of?
M
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
The B-side was the entire song played backwards, even the label was printed
backwards!
Jim Watt
>>it will not survive. You do not need to rent-a-crowd. The crowd is offering
>> its services for free.
>
>What crowd? The same crowed that'll queue up to 3 hours to cross over the
>border into Spain? Not likely. Our flag, the Castle and Key is Spanish. In
>case you've forgotten.
The red and white flag was indeed given to Gibraltar, although
the actual grant of arms was stolen and now resides somewhere
near and should be returned.
However, there are certain sensitivities connected with red and
yellow coloured flags and they are considered a fire hazard.
Jim Watt
wrote:
>No idea! What was the B side to Funky Moped?
DJM 388 17th August 1965 highest position in UK
charts 5 its debatable whether there was a B
side or in fact the record had a double A side
with the other track being "Magic Roundabout"
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 07:36:39 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>
>>>it will not survive. You do not need to rent-a-crowd. The crowd is
>>>offering
>>> its services for free.
>>
>>What crowd? The same crowed that'll queue up to 3 hours to cross over the
>>border into Spain? Not likely. Our flag, the Castle and Key is Spanish. In
>>case you've forgotten.
>
> The red and white flag was indeed given to Gibraltar, although
> the actual grant of arms was stolen and now resides somewhere
> near and should be returned.
History cannot be rewritten to suit anyone. The fact is that the Castle and
Key, Coat of Arms, were granted to the original inhabitants of the Rock. It
is a fact that should be recognised by one and all. That gibraltarians
should love and feel an attachment to that flag is only natural. As natural
as being accustomed to the subtropical elements of the Levant coast of the
Mediterranean. No panzicismo can ever change that.
> However, there are certain sensitivities connected with red and
> yellow coloured flags and they are considered a fire hazard.
The Red and Gold (Yellow) colours have their origins in antiquity. It goes
way way back, predating what we now know as Spain. The connection is
wondrous. But getting back to your statement, the gibraltarians are a
peaceful people by nature, and they do not harbour arsonist tendencies, safe
there being a newly infused subculture, about which I would know nothing.
M
Ken
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 23:12:29 -0000, "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>No idea! What was the B side to Funky Moped?
>
> DJM 388 17th August 1965 highest position in UK
> charts 5 its debatable whether there was a B
> side or in fact the record had a double A side
> with the other track being "Magic Roundabout"
Well, I suspect it was a neat way around the BBC's propensity to ban all
things that weren't fluffy white bunny rabbits. The record would sell
(thanks to the B side) and yet get proper airing because of the lack of rude
words on the (sopposed) A side. Visionary advertising ploy, showing the
banning to be the crass blunt instrument that it was. Masterpiece!
Ken
Ken
"Time for bed" said Dougall.
"P*** off!" said Florence.
>
> The B-side was the entire song played backwards, even the label was
> printed backwards!
What vision! Just because they could, or to give the visual AND auditary
impresion that it was somehow a transparent record and you could see the
mirror image from behind? I like it!
Ken
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
Well said! You stay there matey!
>
>>>> Unfortunately perhaps, in Gib the politics as regards our neighbours,
>>>> because of THEIR own making, is all-pervasive. I suspect IF they come
>>>> they will become the focus of some acts one would rather not have
>>>> occurred. For the sake of public order, I wish they'd stay away.
>>>
>>> You speak as if schizophrenia or paranoia were a common affliction in
>>> Gib! By definition, so long as there are complains about "long queues"
>>> at the border, the people in Gib have a need, and want, to go to Spain.
>>> Why this subversive "pseudo-hatred" and expectation of there being any
>>> risk to public order? Short of refering to "hire a crowd", there's no
>>> logical reason why an educational istitute should not be welcomed.
>>
>> Well, the Sp have spoken that their flag will once more fly in Gib. Many
>> have been heard to mutter that it had best fly indoors, as outdoors it
>> will not survive. You do not need to rent-a-crowd. The crowd is offering
>> its services for free.
>
> What crowd? The same crowed that'll queue up to 3 hours to cross over the
> border into Spain? Not likely. Our flag, the Castle and Key is Spanish. In
> case you've forgotten. What about our intelligentsia residing in Spain?
The flag is a transposition onto cloth that which was "otorgated" by Lizzie
(the Catholic one) in 1501. It was meant as a coat of arms and became a
ymbol of the place, nauraly extended onto flag waving. It may have been
granted to Gib by a Spanish monarch, at a time when Gibraltar was indeed
part of Spain. As soon as Gib ceased to be part of Spain, it ceased to be
Spanish and with it allt hose things it possessed EVEN IF at one time they
were Spanish. For example, I might have a pen. It is MY pen. But if I give
it to you, it is no longer MY pen , it is YOUR pen. The castle & key may
HAVE BEEN Spanish at one time, but now it's Gibraltarian.
Whose intelligencia? Some may live in Spain, many more I suspect live in
Gib. Others - perhaps more than those two groups put together - live
somewhere other than Gib or Spain. Are you confusing "intelligence" with
"wealthy"?
>
>>>>> I'd like to know when, where and how many will subscribe. Hey, no skin
>>>>> off my nose, the Instituto's everywhere! Take it easy, only
>>>>> 400,000,000 people speak the language.
>>>>
>>>> Which means nothing. At one time even more folk believed the world was
>>>> flat! Also, how many flies eat doo-doo? Does that make it desireable?
>>>> :))
>>>
>>> No, it doesn't, but like a Scotish freind of mine says, "if you don't
>>> sh1t, you die" :)
>>
>
> Uhh! There's a posh side in Scotland?
So she claimed
> BTW, what's passing wind a symptom of?
Nothing in absolute terms, it's the change from the norm that may be of
significance. Want some odourless ones? Lots and lots of beans! They produce
hydrogen. But beware - no naked flames!
Ken
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
And loads better than most for who it is not a first language - but there is
VAST room for improvement. So what? I also know some words in various other
languages, French most of all. What does it all add up to in your book? I
seem to have lost sight ofwhere this is all going.
>
>> Having said that there are many excellent speakers of Sp who I hold in
>> great admiration. For all I don't like their literature (or anyone
>> else's), Spain has given birth to a few OK poets and a few OK artists.
>> Salvador who used to sell salaitos and toffee apples was v nice, as is
>> Salvador my colleague here in the UK (but he's from Chile, so though he
>> speaks v good Sp he's not Sp, so I suppose doesn't count in this poll).
>> Curiously there was another Salvador in Leeds who I got on with famously,
>> from Barcelona. This list too could go on and on you know. Oh, mustn't
>> forget Diego from Almeria who said it was best if Spain kept out of Gib,
>> for if nothing else it would open a can of worms for Spain
>> constitutionally were Spain's borders to be seen as malleable. Quite sage
>> for a bloke aged 26 or so.
>
> There's no poll. The question was whether you hate everyone who speaks
> Spanish. The obvious answer, given your reply, is NO.
> Chileans are all over the place, they're a good lot, but don't let this
> colleague of yours call you "huevon". That's a saying of theirs :)
>
> Ah, yes, Salvador de los pirulines! And wasn't he an artist! The way he'd
> prepare, present and serve his "delicias"?
>
>> So, why do you ask?
>
> Just felt like triggering you off!
If you want to set things off, just mention the Spanish inquisition, mighty
trees to be felled by herrings, and out one - no, two - no three etc etc.
secret weapons. That should do it!
Ken
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
Goons. YingTong Song.
Ken
Ken
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
news:6iknk2tl8rhev398a...@4ax.com...
Errrr . . . . WHY? Tad off-topic perchance? Magic Roundabout and alt.gib?
K
Jim Watt
wrote:
>Goons. YingTong Song.
ohhhhh I've actually got that ned, its a round
black thing with a hole in the middle - could it
be a record?
Ken
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sat, 4 Nov 2006 18:01:47 -0000, "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>Goons. YingTong Song.
>
> ohhhhh I've actually got that ned, its a round
> black thing with a hole in the middle - could it
> be a record?
From: Napoleon's Piano.
Scene: Just been sawing the legs off it so they can get in in the van
Neddie: Look out! Someone's coming! Quick - hide behind this pane of glass.
Eccles: But you can see through it!
Neddie: Not if you close your eyes!
Ken
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:bqX2h.58501$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Le Grand Schip
>> What crowd? The same crowed that'll queue up to 3 hours to cross over the
>> border into Spain? Not likely. Our flag, the Castle and Key is Spanish.
>> In case you've forgotten. What about our intelligentsia residing in
>> Spain?
>
> The flag is a transposition onto cloth that which was "otorgated" by
> Lizzie (the Catholic one) in 1501. It was meant as a coat of arms and
> became a ymbol of the place, nauraly extended onto flag waving. It may
> have been granted to Gib by a Spanish monarch, at a time when Gibraltar
> was indeed part of Spain. As soon as Gib ceased to be part of Spain, it
> ceased to be Spanish and with it allt hose things it possessed EVEN IF at
> one time they were Spanish. For example, I might have a pen. It is MY pen.
> But if I give it to you, it is no longer MY pen , it is YOUR pen. The
> castle & key may HAVE BEEN Spanish at one time, but now it's Gibraltarian.
Correction: You, the monarch, gave me the pen. Then without warning I was
attacked by a massive force, which had failed its original mission further
up the Med coast. I surrendered to this unexpected force, which gave me
limited time to leave my dwelling, taking as much of my possessions as I
could carry. I took my prized pen. Much much later and after much comical
debate and cartooning considerations, a replica of my prized pen is handed
to the new inhabitants, not by a monarch but by some low ranking army-club
boy rostered on duty in what is now a colonial outpost. Against other
military invasions and through civil and world wars, my descendants
jealously guard my pen. Some 500 years later, it is purported that the
replica of my pen somehow supersedes my one and only original pen. All this
in brought daylight and with my original pen in open display to all who may
wish to see it.
> Whose intelligencia? Some may live in Spain, many more I suspect live in
> Gib. Others - perhaps more than those two groups put together - live
> somewhere other than Gib or Spain. Are you confusing "intelligence" with
> "wealthy"?
Wealth = Power. Affluence. Comfort. Oppulence.
Inteligentsia = Intelectual or Cultured Classes
Wealth + Intelligentsia = Power to purchase anti-political toilet paper.
>>>>>> I'd like to know when, where and how many will subscribe. Hey, no
>>>>>> skin off my nose, the Instituto's everywhere! Take it easy, only
>>>>>> 400,000,000 people speak the language.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which means nothing. At one time even more folk believed the world was
>>>>> flat! Also, how many flies eat doo-doo? Does that make it desireable?
>>>>> :))
>>>>
>>>> No, it doesn't, but like a Scotish freind of mine says, "if you don't
>>>> sh1t, you die" :)
>>>
>>
>> Uhh! There's a posh side in Scotland?
>
> So she claimed
>
>> BTW, what's passing wind a symptom of?
>
> Nothing in absolute terms, it's the change from the norm that may be of
> significance. Want some odourless ones? Lots and lots of beans! They
> produce hydrogen. But beware - no naked flames!
Does suger produce more gastric wind?
M
Lynx
snip
>>> So, why do you ask?
>>
>> Just felt like triggering you off!
>
> If you want to set things off, just mention the Spanish inquisition,
> mighty trees to be felled by herrings, and out one - no, two - no three
> etc etc. secret weapons. That should do it!
On the Spanish inquisition, best you read The Burning Bush. It will tell you
not just how Spanish it really was, but who the benefactors were in many an
instance.
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:sjX2h.58492$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> Nothing beat the lyrics to "I was Kaiser Bill's Batman"
>
> Goons. YingTong Song.
Nope! K B Batman was whistled!
Lynx
Is that where they bid, amongst a whole bunch of Chinese people, for the
piano?
M
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
You lost me at the second set of traffic lights, sorry.
I think I know what you;re getting at, but the emblem was not given the the
inhabitants of the city, it was given to the city itself - the name, the
buildings, the streets, the pipes, the sewers. THOSE did not leave. The
emblem belongs with the city that is now no longer part of the country of
which it was part at the tiime the emblem was bestowed upon it.
> Does suger produce more gastric wind?
It has several adbdominal effects (increasing girth mostly), but all are
gas-free.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
Well, that was ONE reply I certainly WAS NOT expecting!
K
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:26h3h.59126$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I think I know what you;re getting at, but the emblem was not given the
> the inhabitants of the city, it was given to the city itself - the name,
> the buildings, the streets, the pipes, the sewers. THOSE did not leave.
> The emblem belongs with the city that is now no longer part of the country
> of which it was part at the tiime the emblem was bestowed upon it.
The emblem was granted to the City of Gibraltar. Due to its strategic
position and because of the loyalty of its inhabitants to the realm. It is
an emblem granted to an integral entity of the kingdom of Spain and to the
loyal citizens of the time. We, in modern times, did not inherit the emblem.
The emblem was "granted" to Gib by a British officer serving in Gib,
governor or something. Before this took place, they played around with all
sorts of rediculous alternatives to the original version of the Castle and
Key. Our Castle and Key was not a continual inheritance passed on to us. The
original is, to this day, in San Roque. A city, by definition, is a large
town which is or has been the seat of a bishop. It follows that a city
cannot be one without a population. A city and its people are an integral
part of each other, you cannot have one without the other. Granting an
emblem to a city is granting it to its inhabitants. As it is, the Castle and
Key means nothing to the British realm, there's no connectivity. The Castle
and Key represents the gateway to the kingdom of Spain. That's how it is, we
cannot change history to suit ourselves.
>> Does suger produce more gastric wind?
>
> It has several adbdominal effects (increasing girth mostly), but all are
> gas-free.
I thought sugar to be the cause of more fermentation and hence more gas.
This is obviously not the case.
M
Lynx
The book is written by a Jewish historian who knows his stuff. I it read
many years ago by pure chance. Spain, you must remeber, was home for a very
long time to the higher echelon of the Jewish creed. The Sephards, the real
Jews, a highly cultured people. They held high positions in the court and
formed an integral part of the realm. In many instances the "conversos"
defended their new found faith with far more zeal than those who had been
born into it. There's nothing worse than an ex-smoker. Some converted for
real, others for earthly interests. Some becoming Bishop and Mayor of a
given city simultaneously. In some instances it became a power grabbing
game. Those who were caught practicing their original faith in secret paid a
very high price. Their belongings confiscated, enriching others.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
So you think we should not use the castle and key, and it rightly belongs to
the citizens of San Roque? If as you say a city is nothing without its
population, what is a population without its city? Those who left, left.
There was never a time that Gib (during that period in history) was without
population. There was the population of Spanish folk living in Gib, then
they were invaded and conquered - at that point, there were more people than
usual in Gib. The invading forces permitted those who wanted to leave, and
many did. Others remained. At no time was Gib devoid of a population, but
there was a time when there was a population devoid of a city - those who
left, before they arrived at the top of the hill overlooking Gib. When they
settled there they formed a city of their own. So they have a bishop?
Woopie-doo! Gib has two, now what? Two, I hear you ask? Yes two. Bishop
Caruana (RC) and Bishop Rowell (CofE). That's one bishop and one cathedral
more than San Roque. Purish! The emblem belongs in Gib.
Why should the emblems belong to those who left rather than those who
stayed? Were those who stayed not the most loyal to the city? Should THEY
not inherit its trappings?
So what that the emblem of Gib has nothing to do with the UK? Why should it?
It has everything to do with Gib, and as we are talking emblems / flags /
crests that pertain to Gib, it matters not that they might or might not have
anything to do with the UK OR Spain.
>
>>> Does suger produce more gastric wind?
>>
>> It has several adbdominal effects (increasing girth mostly), but all are
>> gas-free.
>
> I thought sugar to be the cause of more fermentation and hence more gas.
> This is obviously not the case.
In the presence of yeast, yes - as in beer and bread and wine of course. We
humans simply absorb it (after breakdown) and use it mostly as a fuel.
Gassless. Environmentalists are proud.
Ken
Lynx
As an observer, I say the CofE cathedral in Gib's nothing more than a farce
and a political one at that. That it's objective should be to serve members
of the CofE throughout Europe, is stretching the longest bow in history.
While one may consider the Castle and Key to be an exclusive symbol once
bestowed on Gibraltar. One cannot lose sight of the fact that it was
bestowed by another monarch, from another realm to another nationality and
creed of people. Our sovereign never bestowed that emblem on us nor on our
City, nor does our sovereign ever visit our City. The emblem predates much
of what is British today.
> Why should the emblems belong to those who left rather than those who
> stayed? Were those who stayed not the most loyal to the city? Should THEY
> not inherit its trappings?
Who stayed? Fr. Figueroa, Bartolo El Campanero y cuatro gatos mas? Those who
left? You mean those who were expelled after much raping and pillaging? Some
left with nothing more than the rags on their backs. Some had nowhere to go.
Disease and famine was brought on many of these civilian people. The exodus
was not a clinical exercise. It was a cruel and barbaric act based on
"gunboat diplomacy".
>>>> Does suger produce more gastric wind?
>>>
>>> It has several adbdominal effects (increasing girth mostly), but all are
>>> gas-free.
>>
>> I thought sugar to be the cause of more fermentation and hence more gas.
>> This is obviously not the case.
>
> In the presence of yeast, yes - as in beer and bread and wine of course.
> We humans simply absorb it (after breakdown) and use it mostly as a fuel.
> Gassless. Environmentalists are proud.
Does exercise lower the production of gastric gas?
M
Jim Watt
>As an observer, I say the CofE cathedral in Gib's nothing more than a farce
>and a political one at that. That it's objective should be to serve members
>of the CofE throughout Europe, is stretching the longest bow in history.
>While one may consider the Castle and Key to be an exclusive symbol once
>bestowed on Gibraltar. One cannot lose sight of the fact that it was
>bestowed by another monarch, from another realm to another nationality and
>creed of people. Our sovereign never bestowed that emblem on us nor on our
>City, nor does our sovereign ever visit our City. The emblem predates much
>of what is British today.
Come to that the Catholic 'Cathedral' is little more than a medium
sixed church as is the Anglican one. The Mosque looks more elegant
than either.
The flag of Gibraltar IS the flag of Gibraltar there is
little reluctance to buy everything from those great Spanish
emporia, Carrefour and LIDL, and the only thing 'made in Britain'
these days are ASBO's
We should campaign for the grant of alms stolen by defectors
to be returned, the claim is rather like the Greek one for the
Elgin marbles.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 23:38:46 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>
>>As an observer, I say the CofE cathedral in Gib's nothing more than a
>>farce
>>and a political one at that. That it's objective should be to serve
>>members
>>of the CofE throughout Europe, is stretching the longest bow in history.
>>While one may consider the Castle and Key to be an exclusive symbol once
>>bestowed on Gibraltar. One cannot lose sight of the fact that it was
>>bestowed by another monarch, from another realm to another nationality and
>>creed of people. Our sovereign never bestowed that emblem on us nor on our
>>City, nor does our sovereign ever visit our City. The emblem predates much
>>of what is British today.
>
> Come to that the Catholic 'Cathedral' is little more than a medium
> sixed church as is the Anglican one. The Mosque looks more elegant
> than either.
Perhaps. The fact that the Mosque was built some hundreds of years later
with an abundance of petro-dollar cash thrown in, it is hardly surprising.
At any rate, your observation doesn't alter the facts. No offence to any
CofE member.
> The flag of Gibraltar IS the flag of Gibraltar there is
> little reluctance to buy everything from those great Spanish
> emporia, Carrefour and LIDL, and the only thing 'made in Britain'
> these days are ASBO's
Hmm...
> We should campaign for the grant of alms stolen by defectors
> to be returned, the claim is rather like the Greek one for the
> Elgin marbles.
You're on something strong mate, how much does it go for?
M
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:eilfs...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>> news:vHp3h.59352$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:eil5a...@news2.newsguy.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:26h3h.59126$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
> farce and a political one at that. That it's objective should be to serve
> members of the CofE throughout Europe, is stretching the longest bow in
> history.
As ever, in this field as in most, Gib packs a punch well above her weight.
> While one may consider the Castle and Key to be an exclusive symbol once
> bestowed on Gibraltar. One cannot lose sight of the fact that it was
> bestowed by another monarch, from another realm to another nationality and
> creed of people. Our sovereign never bestowed that emblem on us nor on our
> City, nor does our sovereign ever visit our City. The emblem predates much
> of what is British today.
It need not be reprentative of the UK at all. It is not a symbol of "The
UK's sovereignty over Gib". For that, we have our coinage, our currency, our
stamps, our system of law, of education, our health service modelled on the
UK model, our sense of decency and of humour. How many more symbols do you
want? That we should retain ONE symbol which predates theUK's involvement in
Gib is wholly appropriate - to remind ourselves that there was life Ante
Britannia - if only to remind ourselves how much better it is to be part of
Britannia than part of Hispania!
>
>> Why should the emblems belong to those who left rather than those who
>> stayed? Were those who stayed not the most loyal to the city? Should THEY
>> not inherit its trappings?
>
> Who stayed? Fr. Figueroa, Bartolo El Campanero y cuatro gatos mas? Those
> who left? You mean those who were expelled after much raping and
> pillaging? Some left with nothing more than the rags on their backs. Some
> had nowhere to go. Disease and famine was brought on many of these
> civilian people. The exodus was not a clinical exercise. It was a cruel
> and barbaric act based on "gunboat diplomacy".
Judged by today's standards, perhaps. I don;t know, I wasn't there nor do I
have any evidence of what went on. But let us suppose you are right. For the
standards of the day - the only standards against which they can be judged,
they were rather generous. They were permitted to leave if they chose to,
with provisions and belongings as they chose to take, with beasts of burden
to take them.
> Does exercise lower the production of gastric gas?
There is no appreciable production of gas in the stomach. Gas there is
mostly ingested (fizzy drinks) or swallowed. It's in the large bowel where
it happens - the last bit before daylight.
K
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:aCu3h.59581$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:eilfs...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>>> news:vHp3h.59352$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>
>>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:eil5a...@news2.newsguy.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:26h3h.59126$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>
>> As an observer, I say the CofE cathedral in Gib's nothing more than a
>> farce and a political one at that. That it's objective should be to serve
>> members of the CofE throughout Europe, is stretching the longest bow in
>> history.
>
> As ever, in this field as in most, Gib packs a punch well above her
> weight.
Can't you see the bishop trying to deliver to one of his flock in northern
or eastern Europe somewhere? The Goons would have made a meal of it!
>> While one may consider the Castle and Key to be an exclusive symbol once
>> bestowed on Gibraltar. One cannot lose sight of the fact that it was
>> bestowed by another monarch, from another realm to another nationality
>> and creed of people. Our sovereign never bestowed that emblem on us nor
>> on our City, nor does our sovereign ever visit our City. The emblem
>> predates much of what is British today.
>
> It need not be reprentative of the UK at all. It is not a symbol of "The
> UK's sovereignty over Gib". For that, we have our coinage, our currency,
> our stamps, our system of law, of education, our health service modelled
> on the UK model, our sense of decency and of humour. How many more symbols
> do you want? That we should retain ONE symbol which predates theUK's
> involvement in Gib is wholly appropriate - to remind ourselves that there
> was life Ante Britannia - if only to remind ourselves how much better it
> is to be part of Britannia than part of Hispania!
We're going Latin now are we? Actually, had it not been for the Latins we
wouldn't have much of a language, would we now? Whatever happened to the
Latins?
Everything you say is true but you fail to address the point in question.
You are avoiding rather than engaging. For a low ranking individual on duty
on an outpost to "grant" the colony of Gibraltar a copy/replica of the
original coat of arms, once granted by the Spanish monarchs, can be seen as
a divisive symbol between the reigning power and people of Gibraltar. As you
have yourself acknowledged, the symbol is totally divorced of Britain or
being British. Yet we all claim to be ever so British.
>>> Why should the emblems belong to those who left rather than those who
>>> stayed? Were those who stayed not the most loyal to the city? Should
>>> THEY not inherit its trappings?
>>
>> Who stayed? Fr. Figueroa, Bartolo El Campanero y cuatro gatos mas? Those
>> who left? You mean those who were expelled after much raping and
>> pillaging? Some left with nothing more than the rags on their backs. Some
>> had nowhere to go. Disease and famine was brought on many of these
>> civilian people. The exodus was not a clinical exercise. It was a cruel
>> and barbaric act based on "gunboat diplomacy".
>
> Judged by today's standards, perhaps. I don;t know, I wasn't there nor do
> I have any evidence of what went on. But let us suppose you are right. For
> the standards of the day - the only standards against which they can be
> judged, they were rather generous. They were permitted to leave if they
> chose to, with provisions and belongings as they chose to take, with
> beasts of burden to take them.
There's no such thing as today's standards. We don't have to look too far to
see how drastically standards can change from one corner of the globe to
another. Addressing the past and absorbing it, can give us a better
perspective on how things came about. It can also make it easier for us to
understand others. It can act like a balsam leading to a more harmonious
future with our perceived "enemies". There was a time, many will still
remember in Gib, when Gibbos would to an annual romeria/pilgrimage to the
Almoraima. An interesting snippet was released by the Gibraltar Magazine,
marking the invasion 1704. In it you can read part of the suffering of the
inhabitants.
>> Does exercise lower the production of gastric gas?
>
> There is no appreciable production of gas in the stomach. Gas there is
> mostly ingested (fizzy drinks) or swallowed. It's in the large bowel where
> it happens - the last bit before daylight.
Must be intended to propel the projectiles, perhaps??? :)
M
Jim Watt
>Those who
>left? You mean those who were expelled after much raping and pillaging? Some
>left with nothing more than the rags on their backs. Some had nowhere to go.
>Disease and famine was brought on many of these civilian people. The exodus
>was not a clinical exercise. It was a cruel and barbaric act based on
>"gunboat diplomacy".
Hmmmm and you ask what +I+ am on.
Lets put that another way. The inhabitants of the town surrendered
and they had the option to stay or leave. Before they left they
murdered a number of British and Dutch servicemen.
Despite that they were allowed to leave peacefully.
When the Spanish invaded the put all the inhabitants of the town to
death.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:eio0n...@news1.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>> news:aCu3h.59581$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:eilfs...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:vHp3h.59352$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:eil5a...@news2.newsguy.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:26h3h.59126$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>>
>> UK's sovereignty over Gib". For that, we have our coinage, our currency,
>> our stamps, our system of law, of education, our health service modelled
>> on the UK model, our sense of decency and of humour. How many more
>> symbols do you want? That we should retain ONE symbol which predates
>> theUK's involvement in Gib is wholly appropriate - to remind ourselves
>> that there was life Ante Britannia - if only to remind ourselves how much
>> better it is to be part of Britannia than part of Hispania!
>
> We're going Latin now are we? Actually, had it not been for the Latins we
> wouldn't have much of a language, would we now? Whatever happened to the
> Latins?
There are several truths that cannot be denied. One such is that we are
Iberian. As to Latin, that too. With all my family history hooming in on
Genoa, how could I claim my ancestry to be otherwise? Though of course the
use of the word latin here should not be cnfused with the American use of
"Latino" which is almost synonymous with "Hispanic" which I at least am not.
Those whose family history might involve those who came to Gib at the time
of the Sp Civil War might find they are to an extent, but naturally just
because you have a history doesn't mean you have to live down to it.
> Everything you say is true but you fail to address the point in question.
> You are avoiding rather than engaging. For a low ranking individual on
> duty on an outpost to "grant" the colony of Gibraltar a copy/replica of
> the original coat of arms, once granted by the Spanish monarchs, can be
> seen as a divisive symbol between the reigning power and people of
> Gibraltar. As you have yourself acknowledged, the symbol is totally
> divorced of Britain or being British. Yet we all claim to be ever so
> British.
British yes, Gibraltarian more so.
>
>>>> Why should the emblems belong to those who left rather than those who
>>>> stayed? Were those who stayed not the most loyal to the city? Should
>>>> THEY not inherit its trappings?
>>>
>>> Who stayed? Fr. Figueroa, Bartolo El Campanero y cuatro gatos mas?
Was that the Bartolo who had a flute with only one hole?
>> Judged by today's standards, perhaps. I don;t know, I wasn't there nor do
>> I have any evidence of what went on. But let us suppose you are right.
>> For the standards of the day - the only standards against which they can
>> be judged, they were rather generous. They were permitted to leave if
>> they chose to, with provisions and belongings as they chose to take, with
>> beasts of burden to take them.
>
> There's no such thing as today's standards.
Standards today = today's standards, as in;
Soup of the day = the soup made today
Bread of today = bread made today
Newspapers printed today = today's newspaper.
That which is current, a la mode, de jour.
>>> Does exercise lower the production of gastric gas?
>>
>> There is no appreciable production of gas in the stomach. Gas there is
>> mostly ingested (fizzy drinks) or swallowed. It's in the large bowel
>> where it happens - the last bit before daylight.
>
> Must be intended to propel the projectiles, perhaps??? :)
Effectiveness depends on the calibre.
Ken
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
From a historical fact, we're now embarking on whose right or wrong. BTW,
which Sp invasion are you on about?
M
Lynx
>
> There are several truths that cannot be denied. One such is that we are
> Iberian. As to Latin, that too. With all my family history hooming in on
> Genoa, how could I claim my ancestry to be otherwise? Though of course the
> use of the word latin here should not be cnfused with the American use of
> "Latino" which is almost synonymous with "Hispanic" which I at least am
> not. Those whose family history might involve those who came to Gib at the
> time of the Sp Civil War might find they are to an extent, but naturally
> just because you have a history doesn't mean you have to live down to it.
The US use of the word Latino can mean anything from a Latino to an African.
I'm glad we know what Latino truly means. So you're of Genoese descent. I'm
a Heinz 57 Variety, I still know my ancestry, and it has no bearing on my
being able to discern how we came to get the Castle and Key. Incidetally, if
you read the history of Gib prior to 1704, you'll see that the Genoese
traded with Gib way back before the Napoleonic Wars were even dreamed of.
You may also find that even since then and to this day there have and are
more Genoese, Maltese, Jewish and even English names in Spain than in Gib.
There's a very interesting book on Gib written back in the early 1600's by a
then local gibraltarian historian. He recounts the history before his time
as well the current times of his era.
>> Everything you say is true but you fail to address the point in question.
>> You are avoiding rather than engaging. For a low ranking individual on
>> duty on an outpost to "grant" the colony of Gibraltar a copy/replica of
>> the original coat of arms, once granted by the Spanish monarchs, can be
>> seen as a divisive symbol between the reigning power and people of
>> Gibraltar. As you have yourself acknowledged, the symbol is totally
>> divorced of Britain or being British. Yet we all claim to be ever so
>> British.
>
> British yes, Gibraltarian more so.
"The twine shall never meet". I'm far more British than you'll ever be, but
whether we're British or Gibbo or not is not in question!!
>>>>> Why should the emblems belong to those who left rather than those who
>>>>> stayed? Were those who stayed not the most loyal to the city? Should
>>>>> THEY not inherit its trappings?
>>>>
>>>> Who stayed? Fr. Figueroa, Bartolo El Campanero y cuatro gatos mas?
>
> Was that the Bartolo who had a flute with only one hole?
Don't think he would've been one of your patients, you weren't around then
:-)
The bellringer was named Bartolo. Historical fact. He might have played los
bolos :-)
>>> Judged by today's standards, perhaps. I don;t know, I wasn't there nor
>>> do I have any evidence of what went on. But let us suppose you are
>>> right. For the standards of the day - the only standards against which
>>> they can be judged, they were rather generous. They were permitted to
>>> leave if they chose to, with provisions and belongings as they chose to
>>> take, with beasts of burden to take them.
>>
>> There's no such thing as today's standards.
>
> Standards today = today's standards, as in;
>
> Soup of the day = the soup made today
> Bread of today = bread made today
> Newspapers printed today = today's newspaper.
>
> That which is current, a la mode, de jour.
A la moda de hoy?! Can well do without some, but surely coundn't do without
most!
>>>> Does exercise lower the production of gastric gas?
>>>
>>> There is no appreciable production of gas in the stomach. Gas there is
>>> mostly ingested (fizzy drinks) or swallowed. It's in the large bowel
>>> where it happens - the last bit before daylight.
>>
>> Must be intended to propel the projectiles, perhaps??? :)
>
> Effectiveness depends on the calibre.
My calibre's magnum-like in sound-barrier-breaking power that is :-)
Jim Watt
>From a historical fact, we're now embarking on whose right or wrong
Its not a question of 'right or wrong' the Spanish inhabitants
had a choice, they exercised it and left.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 23:57:00 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>
>>From a historical fact, we're now embarking on whose right or wrong
>
> Its not a question of 'right or wrong' the Spanish inhabitants
> had a choice, they exercised it and left.
That topic, as touched on in the original posting, was related to the Castle
and Key emblem. To discuss the manner in which the invasion was executed and
the resulting calamities, we would need to set parameters so we don't end up
discussing a totally unrelated subject, which is what normally happens in
this ng. If you want it in the local lingo, "siempre salemo por la via
Tarifa".
M
Jim Watt
>
>That topic, as touched on in the original posting, was related to the Castle
>and Key emblem. To discuss the manner in which the invasion was executed and
>the resulting calamities, we would need to set parameters so we don't end up
>discussing a totally unrelated subject,
Invasion? Surely you mean the liberation ...
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> a then local gibraltarian historian. He recounts the history before his
> time as well the current times of his era.
Is there a modern English translation? I'd have probs with modern Sp, let
alone the archaeic stuff spouted then! What is it in any case?
>>> Must be intended to propel the projectiles, perhaps??? :)
>>
>> Effectiveness depends on the calibre.
>
> My calibre's magnum-like in sound-barrier-breaking power that is :-)
Be careful what calibre it is you are boasting about!
K
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
How could I? I wasn't around then. At that time there were the inhabitants
and the invading forces, which were made up of English, Dutch and Spanish
marines, these had sided with the Habsburgs. Britain was not at war with
Spain, Gib was taken in the name of the Hapsburgs. The Bourbons of the time
might have had something to do with, what to some Spanish is, the sell-out
of the Rock.
M
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:efQ3h.60184$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:eioep...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>
>> There's a very interesting book on Gib written back in the early 1600's
>> by a then local gibraltarian historian. He recounts the history before
>> his time as well the current times of his era.
>
> Is there a modern English translation? I'd have probs with modern Sp, let
> alone the archaeic stuff spouted then! What is it in any case?
You must be the only non-biligual gibraltarian on the planet. What is it in
any case? I just told you. Read above!
>>>> Must be intended to propel the projectiles, perhaps??? :)
>>>
>>> Effectiveness depends on the calibre.
>>
>> My calibre's magnum-like in sound-barrier-breaking power that is :-)
>
> Be careful what calibre it is you are boasting about!
I said "sound-barrier-breaking power. Anyother calibre and you would make a
sound, would you?
M
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:eiql3...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>> news:efQ3h.60184$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:eioep...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>>
>>> There's a very interesting book on Gib written back in the early 1600's
>>> by a then local gibraltarian historian. He recounts the history before
>>> his time as well the current times of his era.
>>
>> Is there a modern English translation? I'd have probs with modern Sp, let
>> alone the archaeic stuff spouted then! What is it in any case?
>
> You must be the only non-biligual gibraltarian on the planet. What is it
> in any case? I just told you. Read above!
OK - so with the information you've given me (which I've re-read) what do I
ask for when I go into a bookshop, or search for it on Google? I see no
title nor author's name!
I feel far more comfortable in Eng. Being a non-artist, I have never felt
the need to read or refine my Sp beyond that required for a chat at the
Piazza.
K
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:pp74h.60904$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:eiql3...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>>> news:efQ3h.60184$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>
>>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:eioep...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>>>
>>>> There's a very interesting book on Gib written back in the early 1600's
>>>> by a then local gibraltarian historian. He recounts the history before
>>>> his time as well the current times of his era.
>>>
>>> Is there a modern English translation? I'd have probs with modern Sp,
>>> let alone the archaeic stuff spouted then! What is it in any case?
>>
>> You must be the only non-biligual gibraltarian on the planet. What is it
>> in any case? I just told you. Read above!
>
> OK - so with the information you've given me (which I've re-read) what do
> I ask for when I go into a bookshop, or search for it on Google? I see no
> title nor author's name!
The book title is - Historia de Gibraltar. Author - Alonso Hernandez del
Portillo. Written between 1605 and 1610. The author was born in Gibraltar
between 1543 and 1547. He was a "Jurado", which more than a juror might mean
Councilor, of La Barcina and La Villa Vieja. His book relates the history of
Gibraltar from antiquity to his time. He also chronicles much which he
witnessed. It's not a big book, but it's loaded with details about Gib and
the Campo de Gib. I recommend it.
Easiest place where to get a copy, I'd say, would be the home ground,
Algeciras or San Roque. I got mine via the Net, but you'll end up paying
more.
Recently some would-be-historian peeped into this book to recount the
history of Gibraltar.
> I feel far more comfortable in Eng. Being a non-artist, I have never felt
> the need to read or refine my Sp beyond that required for a chat at the
> Piazza.
I feel quite at home with both languages. I brought with me what little
Spanish (our Spanish and history of Gib curriculum was most limited) the
celebrated Mr. Requena and another brilliant Gib teacher taught me at
school. It has been here, with my books mainly, that I have managed to
cultivate my command of the language. I'm not one to imitate, so I've never
even tried speaking with a lisp. The lisp, incidentally, is as common in Sp
as the "S" pronunciation. So we're not alone.
Our gov of the day should hang their heads in shame. There we were, young
gibraltarian kids, everyday walking through Moorish Castle Gates, passing by
the gate of Villa Vieja (imbedded into the ex-St Jagos school wall facing
Main St), walking right through the Devil's Tongue Mole, etc. Without as
much as a hint of the treasures surrounding us. I'm sure I couldn't have
been the only kid wondering whether my teacher was mad or blind, trying to
get me to learn about some Henry 8th and his unfulfilled depravity, when I
would often look in wonderment at some of our over thousand years old
landmarks.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:eir6m...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>> news:pp74h.60904$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:eiql3...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:efQ3h.60184$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:eioep...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>>>>
>
> Portillo. Written between 1605 and 1610. The author was born in Gibraltar
> between 1543 and 1547. He was a "Jurado", which more than a juror might
> mean Councilor, of La Barcina and La Villa Vieja. His book relates the
> history of Gibraltar from antiquity to his time. He also chronicles much
> which he witnessed. It's not a big book, but it's loaded with details
> about Gib and the Campo de Gib. I recommend it.
> Easiest place where to get a copy, I'd say, would be the home ground,
> Algeciras or San Roque. I got mine via the Net, but you'll end up paying
> more.
> Recently some would-be-historian peeped into this book to recount the
> history of Gibraltar.
Hmmm . . . shall see if a copy can be located!
>
>> I feel far more comfortable in Eng. Being a non-artist, I have never felt
>> the need to read or refine my Sp beyond that required for a chat at the
>> Piazza.
>
> I feel quite at home with both languages. I brought with me what little
> Spanish (our Spanish and history of Gib curriculum was most limited) the
> celebrated Mr. Requena and another brilliant Gib teacher taught me at
> school. It has been here, with my books mainly, that I have managed to
> cultivate my command of the language. I'm not one to imitate, so I've
> never even tried speaking with a lisp. The lisp, incidentally, is as
> common in Sp as the "S" pronunciation. So we're not alone.
A few have always tried "gorriones"
>
> Our gov of the day should hang their heads in shame. There we were, young
> gibraltarian kids, everyday walking through Moorish Castle Gates, passing
> by the gate of Villa Vieja (imbedded into the ex-St Jagos school wall
> facing Main St), walking right through the Devil's Tongue Mole, etc.
> Without as much as a hint of the treasures surrounding us. I'm sure I
> couldn't have been the only kid wondering whether my teacher was mad or
> blind, trying to get me to learn about some Henry 8th and his unfulfilled
> depravity, when I would often look in wonderment at some of our over
> thousand years old landmarks.
Well, the exam system was geared to the O Levels set by the various boards
and all else wewnt to pot. Certainly I was always left cold by school
history, it was never ever at all relevant. I suspect that had the history
I'd been taught been the history of my place I would have been far more
interested and perhaps learnt something. As it is, what history of Gib I
know is entirely self-taught, and the history I recall of what I was taught
is tantamount to non-existant. I didn't even take the subject to O Level.
Had local history been on the curriculum (as I believe it is now) I would
have done that instead of the (then complusory) religious (mis)education or
indeed Eng Lit. Pointless! The hours I spend being bored by Thos. Hardy.
Geez what a bore!
K
Lynx
snip
>> The book title is - Historia de Gibraltar. Author - Alonso Hernandez del
>> Portillo. Written between 1605 and 1610. The author was born in Gibraltar
>> between 1543 and 1547. He was a "Jurado", which more than a juror might
>> mean Councilor, of La Barcina and La Villa Vieja. His book relates the
>> history of Gibraltar from antiquity to his time. He also chronicles much
>> which he witnessed. It's not a big book, but it's loaded with details
>> about Gib and the Campo de Gib. I recommend it.
>> Easiest place where to get a copy, I'd say, would be the home ground,
>> Algeciras or San Roque. I got mine via the Net, but you'll end up paying
>> more.
>> Recently some would-be-historian peeped into this book to recount the
>> history of Gibraltar.
>
> Hmmm . . . shall see if a copy can be located!
You shouldn't have a problem. In fact, frequenting Gib as you do, nothing
could stop you from not only getting reading material on some topics, but
seeing some of the related landmarks both in Gib and the adjoining Campo.
Our City and its Campo is truly a historical gem. Even during the time of
Portillo, the Genoese were already trading with Gib! But you will find and
much more in the book.
>>> I feel far more comfortable in Eng. Being a non-artist, I have never
>>> felt the need to read or refine my Sp beyond that required for a chat at
>>> the Piazza.
>>
>> I feel quite at home with both languages. I brought with me what little
>> Spanish (our Spanish and history of Gib curriculum was most limited) the
>> celebrated Mr. Requena and another brilliant Gib teacher taught me at
>> school. It has been here, with my books mainly, that I have managed to
>> cultivate my command of the language. I'm not one to imitate, so I've
>> never even tried speaking with a lisp. The lisp, incidentally, is as
>> common in Sp as the "S" pronunciation. So we're not alone.
> A few have always tried "gorriones"
I think I get the gist. :)
>> Our gov of the day should hang their heads in shame. There we were, young
>> gibraltarian kids, everyday walking through Moorish Castle Gates, passing
>> by the gate of Villa Vieja (imbedded into the ex-St Jagos school wall
>> facing Main St), walking right through the Devil's Tongue Mole, etc.
>> Without as much as a hint of the treasures surrounding us. I'm sure I
>> couldn't have been the only kid wondering whether my teacher was mad or
>> blind, trying to get me to learn about some Henry 8th and his unfulfilled
>> depravity, when I would often look in wonderment at some of our over
>> thousand years old landmarks.
>
> Well, the exam system was geared to the O Levels set by the various boards
> and all else wewnt to pot. Certainly I was always left cold by school
> history, it was never ever at all relevant. I suspect that had the history
> I'd been taught been the history of my place I would have been far more
> interested and perhaps learnt something. As it is, what history of Gib I
> know is entirely self-taught, and the history I recall of what I was
> taught is tantamount to non-existant. I didn't even take the subject to O
> Level.
Nor did I. I always had a curiosity about our history, but we never had the
material at school, save the "sortie" and killings, etc. At the CB's school
I remember coming across, by accident, a little booklet titled "The Story of
Gibraltar" by one Howes. We were denied access to this booklet. On one of my
first visits back home, I walked into the bookshop opposite the "Cortes
Grande" looking for historical on Gib, much like Lawrence of Arabia walked
into the Officers Mess asking for a glass of water, having made it across
the desert! I have to say, George Palao's books kick-started my digging into
our rich history.
> Had local history been on the curriculum (as I believe it is now) I would
> have done that instead of the (then complusory) religious (mis)education
> or indeed Eng Lit. Pointless! The hours I spend being bored by Thos.
> Hardy. Geez what a bore!
Absolutely. Two subjects I turned my back on then, history and geography,
are two subjects I took to in later years. History, ours, to the point where
I'll buy any related material I may come across.
M
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> Absolutely. Two subjects I turned my back on then, history and geography,
> are two subjects I took to in later years. History, ours, to the point
> where I'll buy any related material I may come across.
Geography - that's another one! Very intersting I'm sure, but not the way it
was presented when I was at school, where it apparently amounted to little
more than colouring-in. I would have far preferred geology, though that too
was in its relative infancy then. You will be familiar with plate
tectonics - what I was not aware was this was first put forward seriously
while I was at secondary school!
I do fancy a trip to Iceland. Not fora holiday in the sense of a tourist
"seeing the sights" though of course there's nothing wrong with that and I'd
like to do that too. What I'd much prefer is a trip there which coupled with
tours of the glaciers and springs would also include some serious lectures
as to the science behind it all. THAT is my kind of culture, not walking
around stuffy museums looking at paintings and sculptures!
As to the bookshop opposite the "Cortes Grande", it's a must-visit place for
me too on each and every visit. Rarely do I not come out with something.
K
Lynx
snip
> Geography - that's another one! Very intersting I'm sure, but not the way
> it was presented when I was at school, where it apparently amounted to
> little more than colouring-in. I would have far preferred geology, though
> that too was in its relative infancy then. You will be familiar with plate
> tectonics - what I was not aware was this was first put forward seriously
> while I was at secondary school!
Yeah, right. We would often run-out of light red colour pencils. At one
point I thought Earth to be redder than Mars!
> I do fancy a trip to Iceland. Not fora holiday in the sense of a tourist
> "seeing the sights" though of course there's nothing wrong with that and
> I'd like to do that too. What I'd much prefer is a trip there which
> coupled with tours of the glaciers and springs would also include some
> serious lectures as to the science behind it all. THAT is my kind of
> culture, not walking around stuffy museums looking at paintings and
> sculptures!
Of course. But you'd better hurry, I hear it's all turning into water at a
faster rate than ever before!
> As to the bookshop opposite the "Cortes Grande", it's a must-visit place
> for me too on each and every visit. Rarely do I not come out with
> something.
Agreed, though there're section on Gib books could be larger.
M