Workers rights in Gibraltar
zii kell
without any compensation. Does someone here know of any agreements and
laws in Gibraltar about workers rights? Perhaps there are some web
sites about this subject be they run by the government or private
individuals. I want to find out what our rights are.
Best wishes, z.
Ken
"zii kell" <huj22ml...@temporaryinbox.com> wrote in message
news:eq72mh$5ts$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
Methinks Gib is perhaps catching up with the rest of Europe in this regard.
When I was a wee lad my father used to work unsocial hours because his was
one of these "essential services" jobs that had to operate 24/7 come hell or
high water. I used to bemoan the fact that other kids dads were always
available at weekends and always had Christmas at home as you can imagine.
Being a yougster I could not see the advantages when my dad was around at
many times when other dada were at work!
Nowadays that the retail experience is available 7 days /wk (if not actually
24/7, but even that is becoming commmonplace in some retail sectors) there
is no time left that is special any more.
It follow if no tiime is sacred, if no time is special, then there is no
need for special compensation (e.g. higher rates of pay) when working these.
It is certainly the case in retail in the UK that work on sats + suns or
otherwise bank holidays does not atract enhanced rates. Now of course what
Gib does is not dependent on what the UK does - this just by means of
illustration.
K
Larry G
> Methinks Gib is perhaps catching up with the rest of Europe in this
> regard. When I was a wee lad my father used to work unsocial hours because
> his was one of these "essential services" jobs that had to operate 24/7
> come hell or high water. I used to bemoan the fact that other kids dads
> were always available at weekends and always had Christmas at home as you
> can imagine. Being a yougster I could not see the advantages when my dad
> was around at many times when other dada were at work!
>
> Nowadays that the retail experience is available 7 days /wk (if not
> actually 24/7, but even that is becoming commmonplace in some retail
> sectors) there is no time left that is special any more.
>
> It follow if no tiime is sacred, if no time is special, then there is no
> need for special compensation (e.g. higher rates of pay) when working
> these. It is certainly the case in retail in the UK that work on sats +
> suns or otherwise bank holidays does not atract enhanced rates. Now of
> course what Gib does is not dependent on what the UK does - this just by
> means of illustration.
Yep. I'm currently in retail and I work all sorts of hours. Today is a weird
day, I'm working fairly normal daytime hours, but most days I have to get up
at 3 in the morning. The cool thing is I get off in the afternoon some days.
The bad news: I never when my days off are going to be, I only know two
weeks in advance, and I can't plan ANYTHING, I have no life. People starting
out work night.
I work for the largest retailer in America, I won't say the name, but I
think you all know who it is. ;-) Of course, I'm in California, so none of
this is germane to Gibraltar, just thought I'd post, I know I only post once
in a blue moon.
I do get an hour extra an hour on Sundays though, which is cool. Not sure if
this is a California or U.S. Federal law or not though. I would assume not.
Larry
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
"zii kell" <huj22ml...@temporaryinbox.com> wrote in message
news:eq72mh$5ts$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
2 things they can't force you do in England and Wales is make you work more
than 48 hours if you don't want, this is a European directive so I would
hope that Gibraltar adheres to this. They cannot make you work on a Sunday
either.
My employer is trying to get me to work unsocial hours & more hours. I
started to quote the law and, for the time being, appears to have worked.
Ken
"Larry G" <thela...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eq7egl$7sv$2...@aioe.org...
Well, it's the same the whole world over - called globalisation. There's a
large US retailer - may even be the same one - which bought out a large
supermarket chain over here called ASDA. These people used to have
employees, but now all are "colleagues". Yeh, right! They started opening
24/amost 7, so you can now pop down to your supermarket at 3am on a Tuesday
to do your weekly shop. They open continuously from 6am Monday am through to
10pm Sat night - and then open again 10am to 4pm on a Sunday. It's great for
the customer - but hell for the employee - sorry, "colleague".
Of course all this managed to do was force the other retailers in the sector
to have to do the exact same thing if they wanted to retain their market
share, otherwise anyone wanting a bag of peanuts at 4am (how often does that
happen I wonder) would take their custom to the one and only shop open at
that time. Once everyone is open longer doesn't increase turnover - people
don't eat because the shops are open any more than they drive more because
petrol stations are open longer either!
Still, it has one plus point from my perspective - it opens other people's
eyes to the way some have worked forever. You now don't what shift you're on
more than 2 weeks in advance. That is how I've lived all my working life,
and it's all it will ever be!
Ken
Jim Watt
Ken
"JimmyGibby" <Seeu Ji...@jock.net> wrote in message
news:9-qdnTxEAZ1851rY...@pipex.net...
>
> "zii kell" <huj22ml...@temporaryinbox.com> wrote in message
> news:eq72mh$5ts$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>A company I work for is forcing its staff to work over the weekends
>>without any compensation. Does someone here know of any agreements and
>>laws in Gibraltar about workers rights? Perhaps there are some web sites
>>about this subject be they run by the government or private individuals.
>>I want to find out what our rights are.
>>
>> Best wishes, z.
>>
>
> 2 things they can't force you do in England and Wales is make you work
> more than 48 hours if you don't want, this is a European directive so I
> would hope that Gibraltar adheres to this. They cannot make you work on a
> Sunday either.
Ah the blessed European Working Time Directive - from which the UK managed
to opt itself out for a period of time. The opt-out expires at some time or
other, no idea if it's already done so. If the UK has opted out so then too
has Gib, the UK being the member responsible for Gib. Sounds good in one
sense - but it doesn't half mess up the worker who's struggling to make ends
meet and would love a bit of overtime! While ensuring rested employees, it
also makes those same employees earnings-capped. Not so good when you look
at it from that perspective!
I have heard that there is a way around of course, for the unscrupulous
employer in a market of oversupply of unskilled labour. First, they make you
work in excess of the legal max hours - or you lose your job whatever the
law says. BUT as the law says you can't work more than 48 hrs/wk, that's all
they pay you for - on minimum wage. And if you complain you get fired!
So, who does this law protect again?
>
> My employer is trying to get me to work unsocial hours & more hours. I
> started to quote the law and, for the time being, appears to have worked.
You are fortunate in the market, of having the balance of supply and demand
work in your favour. You can use this law to your advantage. Personally,
I've opted out of the EWTD - and before you say I can't, like Bob the
builder "Yes I can!" It's perfectly legal to so within certain sectors.
K
Lynx
> news:eq72mh$5ts$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>A company I work for is forcing its staff to work over the weekends
>>without any compensation. Does someone here know of any agreements and
>>laws in Gibraltar about workers rights? Perhaps there are some web sites
>>about this subject be they run by the government or private individuals.
>>I want to find out what our rights are.
>>
>> Best wishes, z.
>>
>
> 2 things they can't force you do in England and Wales is make you work
> more than 48 hours if you don't want, this is a European directive so I
> would hope that Gibraltar adheres to this. They cannot make you work on a
> Sunday either.
How does Europe keep the airports and airlines operating on a Sunday?
The US has never had any working conditions. I have known us business
people, calling back home to check on the how the business is going, because
they can get sacked while they're away on leave.
zii kell
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
>
> "JimmyGibby" <Seeu Ji...@jock.net> wrote in message
> news:9-qdnTxEAZ1851rY...@pipex.net...
>>
>> "zii kell" <huj22ml...@temporaryinbox.com> wrote in message
>> news:eq72mh$5ts$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>A company I work for is forcing its staff to work over the weekends
>>>without any compensation. Does someone here know of any agreements and
>>>laws in Gibraltar about workers rights? Perhaps there are some web sites
>>>about this subject be they run by the government or private individuals.
>>>I want to find out what our rights are.
>>>
>>> Best wishes, z.
>>>
>>
>> 2 things they can't force you do in England and Wales is make you work
>> more than 48 hours if you don't want, this is a European directive so I
>> would hope that Gibraltar adheres to this. They cannot make you work on
>> a Sunday either.
>
> Ah the blessed European Working Time Directive - from which the UK managed
> to opt itself out for a period of time. The opt-out expires at some time
> or other, no idea if it's already done so. If the UK has opted out so then
> too has Gib, the UK being the member responsible for Gib. Sounds good in
> one sense - but it doesn't half mess up the worker who's struggling to
> make ends meet and would love a bit of overtime! While ensuring rested
> employees, it also makes those same employees earnings-capped. Not so good
> when you look at it from that perspective!
>
They cannot FORCE you to work 48 hours if you don't want. If you do want
to, you can.
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
"Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote in message
news:b0Wxh.3526$sd2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "JimmyGibby" <Seeu Ji...@jock.net> wrote in message
> news:9-qdnTxEAZ1851rY...@pipex.net...
>>
>> "zii kell" <huj22ml...@temporaryinbox.com> wrote in message
>> news:eq72mh$5ts$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>A company I work for is forcing its staff to work over the weekends
>>>without any compensation. Does someone here know of any agreements and
>>>laws in Gibraltar about workers rights? Perhaps there are some web sites
>>>about this subject be they run by the government or private individuals.
>>>I want to find out what our rights are.
>>>
>>> Best wishes, z.
>>>
>>
>> 2 things they can't force you do in England and Wales is make you work
>> more than 48 hours if you don't want, this is a European directive so I
>> would hope that Gibraltar adheres to this. They cannot make you work on
>> a Sunday either.
>
> How does Europe keep the airports and airlines operating on a Sunday?
The working on a Sunday law has nothing to do with Europe.
Ken
In law yes. However there are many unscrupulous employers who prey on the
less able. I have come across too many people in the UK who tell me they
cannot take any time off for sickness without losing their job. That it may
be illegal is beyond dispute - but that it happens I don't doubt either.
Therefore there is also the employer that might also say that while sunday
working (for example) may be optional, it is an inherent requirement of THIS
job. If then you feel you cannot work on Sundays you had best not apply for
the job in the first place!
K
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
Like me, do a google seach on the 'Bradford Factor', at our place 64 puts
you on the road to displinary action, as little as 9 days illness in a year
gets you dismissed.
> That it may be illegal is beyond dispute
Is it? People at my place have lost their jobs due to their sickness
records. What law says they can't do this?
> - but that it happens I don't doubt either.
>
> Therefore there is also the employer that might also say that while sunday
> working (for example) may be optional, it is an inherent requirement of
> THIS job. If then you feel you cannot work on Sundays you had best not
> apply for the job in the first place!
>
Or get a good employment lawyer or join a decent union. The only person I
know that managed to get compensation at our place got lawyered up and
threatened to do them under the DDA, ironically he was 'lucky' as he was
disabled!!
Lynx
I see. Well, on my next visit back home, I will make sure I will not be
scheduled to arrive on a Sunday. Lest my flight be put on a holding pattern
till Monday. Thanks for the info.
Ken
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:eqamo...@news5.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "JimmyGibby" <Seeu Ji...@jock.net> wrote in message
>> news:G4-dnVRlypVyWFXY...@pipex.net...
>>>
>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:eq8ge...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>>
>>>> "JimmyGibby" <Seeu Ji...@jock.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:9-qdnTxEAZ1851rY...@pipex.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "zii kell" <huj22ml...@temporaryinbox.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:eq72mh$5ts$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> you on the road to displinary action, as little as 9 days illness in a
> year gets you dismissed.
>
>> That it may be illegal is beyond dispute
>
> Is it? People at my place have lost their jobs due to their sickness
> records. What law says they can't do this?
You can legally lose your job -or at least I can legally lose my job through
ill health. After 6 months off sick on full pay and then a medicl review I
would drop to six months half pay, and if then I was unable toreturn I ouwld
be pensioned off having had 5 years' enhancement to the contributions I had
already made. That's OK. What is NOT OK is that a worker is fired because he
misses ONE day off sick.
K
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
They cannot FORCE people to work on a Sunday, people can work on a Sunday of
they want to, and many do. That includes Air traffic controllers, if you
need any more help with understanding this please ask!
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
Lynx
>
> They cannot FORCE people to work on a Sunday, people can work on a Sunday
> of they want to, and many do. That includes Air traffic controllers, if
> you need any more help with understanding this please ask!
I am not questioning your integrity. I am simply astounded that there could
possibly be such a law, stating that people cannot be forced to work
Sundays. As I see it, no one can forces anyone to work Sunday or any other
day of the week. If you accept a job, you do so in the full knowledge of the
requirements of the position. If this position requires you to work Sundays,
you are expected to work Sundays, and if you choose not to, then, you may be
summarily dismissed for failing to do your job. Simple.
Jim Watt
wrote:
>he was 'lucky' as he was disabled!!
So are you, being mentally handicapped.
Jim Watt
wrote:
>What is NOT OK is that a
>> worker is fired because he misses ONE day off sick.
>>
>It's as little as 9 days for us.
You've been sick for a long time.
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
>
> "JimmyGibby" <Seeu Ji...@jock.net> wrote in message
> news:1PednQPe4-b...@pipex.net...
>>
>> They cannot FORCE people to work on a Sunday, people can work on a Sunday
>> of they want to, and many do. That includes Air traffic controllers, if
>> you need any more help with understanding this please ask!
>
> I am not questioning your integrity. I am simply astounded that there
> could possibly be such a law, stating that people cannot be forced to work
> Sundays.
Well be astounded that the UK has some decent employment legislation, we are
way behind Europe on this one, especially regarding redundancy.
From some comments here Gibraltar seems to lag behind even the UK?
Lynx
In Oz the rules of thumb are; Sundays are paid double-time, Saturdays time
and ahalf. Redundancy, depends on what agreement has been negotiated between
individual, or union, with employer. Annual leave usually carries an extra
week for shift-workers. All of this, of course, depends on which award the
employee may come underwhat. This country's always been way ahead of all
western countries. Oz was the first country to achieve the three 8's. 8 hrs
for work, rest and play. There is currently a strong drive for working hour
patterns to be more family friendly. However, there is no law stating that
one cannot be forced to work a Sunday. If EU has such a law, I'd say it
wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on. Do some religion members in the
EU, get time off to say their prayers midstream their active working hours?
zii kell
betting shops:
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1074014429
zii kell
Friday, but your contract states 40 hours a week. Later, it could be
argued by the company, that although you agreed verbally that even
though the normal office hours are M-F and you took the job under the
impression that it was Monday to Friday, you signed a contract stating
simply 5 out of 7 which means that it could be any five out of seven so
Tuesday to Sunday would not be in breach of contract so one may find one
working Tues to Sun instead of Mon to Friday.
Jimmy@jock.net JimmyGibby
It's not EU law, it's the law in England & Wales
Ken
I must introduce bacteria and viruses to trade unions. Then all the
pneumonias and meningites I come across would wait until monday before
becoming ill in the first place.
K
Lynx
Lynx
>
> It's not EU law, it's the law in England & Wales
Amazing.
Lynx
> Some companies employ you on the premise that you are working Monday to
> Friday, but your contract states 40 hours a week. Later, it could be
> argued by the company, that although you agreed verbally that even though
> the normal office hours are M-F and you took the job under the impression
> that it was Monday to Friday, you signed a contract stating simply 5 out
> of 7 which means that it could be any five out of seven so Tuesday to
> Sunday would not be in breach of contract so one may find one working Tues
> to Sun instead of Mon to Friday.
Industrial Relation Laws in much of the 'developed' world have been
'liberalized', giving grounds to situations as you explain. And, of course,
the onus is then on the employee to ensure that he/she does not enter into
an agreement where he/she can be unfairly treated/exploited. But when it''s
all said and done, the prospective employee will sign, as there'd probably
be a queue waiting for the same job. Seems much of this discontent should be
addressed to the Gov of the day.
Lynx
<luc...@eternal-flames.gov> wrote in message
news:r07os2h11fjb4cdd8...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 07:37:17 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>
>>However, there is no law stating that
>>one cannot be forced to work a Sunday. If EU has such a law, I'd say it
>>wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on.
>
>
> HTH
Interesting. "These rights apply irrespective of age or length of service.
However, they do not apply to those who are employed to work only on
Sundays." Such regulations must either discourage business operators, and/or
jeopardise the potential earnings of workers.
Jim Watt
> I do know how to sppel GOVERNMENT
People who critisise speling and gramar have
very little else to say.
Lynx
<luc...@eternal-flames.gov> wrote in message
news:889os21apbqfv71l6...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 07:24:20 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>
> Perhaps surprisingly. This law was introduced under John Major's
> Conservative government (which was in many ways more friendly towards
> workers, than the national-socialist governement of Tony Blair).
Conservatism, Socialism, etc. are simply banners used by commercial
interests to mobilize the populace come election time. In these parts the
equivalent to your Conservatives are known as the Liberals. If ever there
was a contradiction in terms, that'd have to be it!
> I don't think it has a significantly harmful effect on businesses,
> since quite a high percentage of shop-work over here, is part-time
> anyway. Keeping worker's hours, below 16 has advantages for
> employers in respect of National Insurance contributions and they can
> employ three workers to cover a 48 hour working week (16 hours each)
> at not much greater cost than one.
Part-timers, in general, are not as dedicated to their duties. On the other
hand, I know some couples, both working part-time, who are quite happy with
their situation. Everything's paid off and they have far more time to
dedicate to their family and interests.
>
> As for the potential earnings of workers. Many shop-workers only want
> part-time hours.
Yes, but the system suggests they'd have to employ workers dedicated to
working Sundays only. This could mean extra workers need be employed.
Job-Share is most acceptable amongst some businesses and their employees.
Where two employees occupy one fulltime slot.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
news:kkcos2hnj5siu52h5...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 07:53:10 +0000, luc...@eternal-flames.gov wrote:
>
>> I do know how to sppel GOVERNMENT
>
> People who critisise speling and gramar have
> very little else to say.
Some can't spell and say f/all, all the same
Lynx
<luc...@eternal-flames.gov> wrote in message
news:giros2tthm1frfme0...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 12:25:55 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>
>>Part-timers, in general, are not as dedicated to their duties. On the
>>other
>>hand, I know some couples, both working part-time, who are quite happy
>>with
>>their situation. Everything's paid off and they have far more time to
>>dedicate to their family and interests.
>
> breaking age-discrimination legislation) go out of their way to hire
> retired/semi-retired workers for part time shifts.
> Those r/s-r only want part-time work and the representatives of the
> stores regularly claim that, they are more reliable, more
> knowledgeable and require far less supervision.
> It's 'swings and roundabouts' I suppose.
Absolutely. DIY should be commended for giving employment to r/s-r
responsible individuals.