El Faro
Manny
all. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I will translate into English
for the benefit of those who can't understand Spanish.
(My Arturo Cuyas dictionary does not include the word "hemerotecas" - anyone
knows what this word means?)
Agosto de 2007 quedara grabado con letras mayusculas en la hemerotecas como
el mes en el que las autoridades espanolas admitieron a voz en grito y sin
complejos que Gibraltar tiene aguas de jurisdiccion propia. El accidente del
New Flame ha conseguido lo que los Gibraltarenos han estado buscando durante
siglos: que Espana admita la soberania de la colonia britinica sobre las
aguas anexas.De hecho, ese reconocimiento era oficioso, no constaba
publicamente, pero a raiz de esta crisis todo a cambiado. Si Gibraltar tiene
jurisdiccion sobre las aguas para lo malo, es decir para tratar de reflotar
el buque chatarrero, tambien debera tenerla en el futuro para lo bueno.
El buen rollito creado en el marco del Foro de Dialogo tripartito esta
llevando a las autoridades del Ministerio de Asuntos Exteriores a
reconocimiento tacticos que pasaran factura en las reivindicaciones
espanolas durante las proximas decadas.
Resulta ademas sonrojante que Espana haya mirado hacia otro lado en el
rescate del buque.
(The article carries on, but I think this snippet is sufficient.)
Be good
Manny
Jim Watt
Ken
"Manny" <m...@rock.gi> wrote in message
news:207ce$46dd870f$c3a6c148$15...@gibnet.gi...
Your dictionary is not the only one which does not include the word
"hemerotecas". None of the on-line dics I looked up had it, just as my
Collins didn't either. From the tone of the article however I imagine it's
not what one would consider a nice place to have anything engraved.
Of course the writer is misinformed. Gibraltar has not for centuries sought
Spanish recognition of Gib waters. We know the waters are our jurisdiction.
That Spain doesn't agree causes me at least no loss of sleep, nor can I
imagine does it anyone else. They can believe what they want, I know what I
know.
Once again the tirpartitie forum is blamed for everything. Curious is it
not, the stuck-in-the-muds in Gib AND in Spain are all against the
tripartite process. It seems that not only are these groups entrenched
against each other, they are united in wishing that there should be no
change in the issues and the arguments, that we should forever be stuck in
the past. In such inflexibility and intransigence at least comes security -
security that nothing will change, and a way of life that, however
uncomfortable, is tolerable.
Of one thing we can all be sure - if the old right-wing in Spain is so
definately against the tripartitie process, we can be sure that in their
minds it is good for Gib. If our staunchest enemies are against it, then we
can be certain it should be good for us.
Ken
Lynx
Lynx
Most interesting article. Pity one cannot, so readily, access such
publications in these parts of the globe.
Hemeretica: newspaper and magazine library, periodical library - Gran
diccionario Cuyas. First published 1960.
The beauty of a language with a rich vocabulary :)
Jim Watt
>Most interesting article. Pity one cannot, so readily, access such
>publications in these parts of the globe.
But wait, you can !
see:
http://www.publicacionesdelsur.net/semanarios/cadiz/gibraltar/index.shtml
Nice to see you back.
Whilst you have been away the following have gone online
www.gibfocus.gi
www.thenewpeople.net
www.gibraltarkey.com
And the institute cervantes, bringing Spanish culture to
the rock has yet to open its doors to the masses eagarly
awaiting its services and the provision of a quick object
linking environment.
Ken
"Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote in message
news:3snDi.31398$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Except the word was not what you wrote, but "hemeroteca". Whose is the sp
mistake?
Meanwhile, El Faro CAN be read on-line at
http://www.publicacionesdelsur.net/, so feel not deprived my feline friend!
If you particualrly want the Gib pages these can be found at
http://www.publicacionesdelsur.net/semanarios/cadiz/gibraltar/index.shtml .
It's a "free paper", paid for by advertising, pubished weekly, and can be
picked up at participating stores, which AFAI recall numbers ONE shop on
Main St opposite the Royal Calpe (or opposite Attias the Tailor, no longer
there but you know where I mean).
Meanwhile and on a purely personal note and COMPLETELY off-topic and indeed
off-NG, I was hoping you'd get back on the NG as I came across a singer
whose delights you would appreciate. Go to www.mariza.com to hear samples of
her work along the jukebox scrolling along the top. No doubt her house is
Portuguese! Her work is at times a bit too modern for the devotees of the
traditional genre, but there are among her songs many done in pure
traditional style, accopanied only by the 12 string guitar and a bass
guitar. Angelic voice. Enjoy.
K
Lynx
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fblr6...@news4.newsguy.com...
Indeed, the word is hemeroteca. Mine was a slip of the finger, I mispelled
the word while hitting this thing called a "key-board". Where there's no
"key" and certainly no "board". When a language depends on combining whole
words to describe a "new word", it gets a bit tiring.
Horseshoe. Shoehorn. Earwigs?! Ever thought how poor the lingua franca's
turned out to be?
Don't get excited, I'm not looking for an argument. Just venting my
frustrations:)
> Meanwhile, El Faro CAN be read on-line at
> http://www.publicacionesdelsur.net/, so feel not deprived my feline
> friend! If you particualrly want the Gib pages these can be found at
> http://www.publicacionesdelsur.net/semanarios/cadiz/gibraltar/index.shtml
> .
Thanks, have checked and added to my favourites. Tenkiu.
> It's a "free paper", paid for by advertising, pubished weekly, and can be
> picked up at participating stores, which AFAI recall numbers ONE shop on
> Main St opposite the Royal Calpe (or opposite Attias the Tailor, no longer
> there but you know where I mean).
Yes, I do recall. Incidentally, is Attias still trading his business in
Algeciras? No ill intent, but I do recall years ago reading about the
business closing in Gib to trade across the Bay.
> Meanwhile and on a purely personal note and COMPLETELY off-topic and
> indeed off-NG, I was hoping you'd get back on the NG as I came across a
> singer whose delights you would appreciate. Go to www.mariza.com to hear
> samples of her work along the jukebox scrolling along the top. No doubt
> her house is Portuguese! Her work is at times a bit too modern for the
> devotees of the traditional genre, but there are among her songs many done
> in pure traditional style, accopanied only by the 12 string guitar and a
> bass guitar. Angelic voice. Enjoy.
Great. Will check 2morrow. I think I might still enjoy the modernised
version of Fado as pleasing as it is, it doesnt quite touch that fibre. I
enjoyed Dolce Ponte's version of Barco Negro, which came out some years ago.
(Primal Instinct-soundtrack)
While on culture, perhaps, just perhaps, you might want to get a glimpse of
La Luz Prodijiosa". Soundtrack sang by Dulce Ponte, composed by Ennio
Morricone. Great film, great soundtrack.
Cheers
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
news:m7rsd3lathpnj9h2k...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 01:16:47 GMT, "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote:
>
>>Most interesting article. Pity one cannot, so readily, access such
>>publications in these parts of the globe.
>
> But wait, you can !
>
> see:
> http://www.publicacionesdelsur.net/semanarios/cadiz/gibraltar/index.shtml
Thanks.
>
> Nice to see you back.
Thanks again. It's good to be back
>
> Whilst you have been away the following have gone online
>
> www.gibfocus.gi
> www.thenewpeople.net
> www.gibraltarkey.com
Great. I knew of gibfocus but not of the other two. Have added them to my
favourites.
> And the institute cervantes, bringing Spanish culture to
> the rock has yet to open its doors to the masses eagarly
> awaiting its services and the provision of a quick object
> linking environment.
Well, that's news. I know we differ. I opt for cultural awareness. I guess
this tendancy comes from living in Oz where Anglo-Irish's the main-core, but
we enjoy an amalgam of cultural "awareness". Not that I enjoy every culture,
mind you, but they're there for anyone who may wish to expirience.
But hey! I didn't come back to argue but to keep in touch and see how things
are at home :)
Cheers
Manny
Straits of Gibraltar and our jurisdiction over OUR waters.
Should we be celebrating the accident?
And I forgot to mention the title of the article is "El mes en el que Espana
reconocio la Bahia de Gibraltar"
"The month in which Spin recognised the Bay of Gibraltar"
Be good
Manny
Jim Watt
>But hey! I didn't come back to argue
Was that the 10 minute non argument or the full
half hour ?
Ken
The big thing in the UK is Poles. No, not the telegraph nor scaffolding
types, but Poles as in Poland. There's been a huuuuuge influx of folk from
Poland, and it's brought about some curious social change in a v short time.
Suddenly Polish interpreters are v busy. Second, the large number of Polish
dentists who came to the UK about 3 yrs ago are having no problem filling
their books. Third, Polish food is rapidly becoming available in
supermarkets. Before long however I expect we'll cease to see a difference.
Past experience has shown that Polish people are exceedingly good at
integrating within UK society.
>
> But hey! I didn't come back to argue
Won't argue? Won't argue??!!! Oi!! (apols to Life of Brian, market scene)
> but to keep in touch and see how things are at home :)
> Cheers
K
Ken
While a horseshow is indeed a shoe for a horse, a shoehorn is not a horn
present on a shoe just as an earwig is not a wig for an ear! Descriptive
nouns are not unknown in any language, and in Enlish a car is full of them -
winscreen wiper, steering wheel, retaining nut, wing mirror, rear-view
mirror etc etc.
> Don't get excited, I'm not looking for an argument. Just venting my
> frustrations:)
>
>> Meanwhile, El Faro CAN be read on-line at
>> http://www.publicacionesdelsur.net/, so feel not deprived my feline
>> friend! If you particualrly want the Gib pages these can be found at
>> http://www.publicacionesdelsur.net/semanarios/cadiz/gibraltar/index.shtml
>> .
>
> Thanks, have checked and added to my favourites. Tenkiu.
>
>> It's a "free paper", paid for by advertising, pubished weekly, and can be
>> picked up at participating stores, which AFAI recall numbers ONE shop on
>> Main St opposite the Royal Calpe (or opposite Attias the Tailor, no
>> longer there but you know where I mean).
>
> Yes, I do recall. Incidentally, is Attias still trading his business in
> Algeciras? No ill intent, but I do recall years ago reading about the
> business closing in Gib to trade across the Bay.
No idea - didn't know they went there.
>
>> Meanwhile and on a purely personal note and COMPLETELY off-topic and
>> indeed off-NG, I was hoping you'd get back on the NG as I came across a
>> singer whose delights you would appreciate. Go to www.mariza.com to hear
>> samples of her work along the jukebox scrolling along the top. No doubt
>> her house is Portuguese! Her work is at times a bit too modern for the
>> devotees of the traditional genre, but there are among her songs many
>> done in pure traditional style, accopanied only by the 12 string guitar
>> and a bass guitar. Angelic voice. Enjoy.
>
> Great. Will check 2morrow. I think I might still enjoy the modernised
> version of Fado as pleasing as it is, it doesnt quite touch that fibre.
More instruments, that's all. The purist insists on no more than the 12
string guitar and the bass guitar. All songs still sad laments, with an occ
twist at the end. Just like in Star Trek and the whole of Hollywood,
goodness wins over naughtiness and all inevitably live happily ever after.
> I enjoyed Dolce Ponte's version of Barco Negro, which came out some years
> ago. (Primal Instinct-soundtrack)
> While on culture, perhaps, just perhaps, you might want to get a glimpse
> of La Luz Prodijiosa". Soundtrack sang by Dulce Ponte, composed by Ennio
> Morricone. Great film, great soundtrack.
Boa noite.
K
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:06:04 GMT, "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote:
>
>>But hey! I didn't come back to argue
>
> Was that the 10 minute non argument or the full
> half hour ?
The full ten seconds, I'd say.
Lynx
>
> While a horseshow is indeed a shoe for a horse, a shoehorn is not a horn
> present on a shoe just as an earwig is not a wig for an ear! Descriptive
> nouns are not unknown in any language, and in Enlish a car is full of
> them - winscreen wiper, steering wheel, retaining nut, wing mirror,
> rear-view mirror etc etc.
Therein the eternal dilema. A shoe, as most understand it, is for a human
foot. "Herradura", now there's a unique noun which encapsulates a unique
meaning.
The term "descriptive noun" is somewhat Neanderthal, just another way of
saying, "we're short on vocabulary, so let's just say what this object is
and call the description a noun".
Lynx
>
> but the good thing is that the article accepts that Spain acknowledges the
> Straits of Gibraltar and our jurisdiction over OUR waters.
> Should we be celebrating the accident?
> And I forgot to mention the title of the article is "El mes en el que
> Espana reconocio la Bahia de Gibraltar"
> "The month in which Spin recognised the Bay of Gibraltar"
> Be good
> Manny
How true. And the point couldn't have gone amiss by any reader. After all,
it is the crux of the article :)
Playing the devil's advocate, I dare put the question forward: Is it not
surprising, that after decades, if not centuries, of no shipping mishaps in
the proximity of our Rock, we should all of a sudden be burdened with two
shipping accidents within months from each other? The last commercial
shipping mishap within Gib's waters involved the Utopia, and that was back
in 1891!
While on the topic, has anything come of the 'charges', if any, laid against
the Capt. of the ill-fated Greek ship?
Cheers
Ken
Indeed, but it's been going on for ages and few complain. We have APPLE for
an apple and it means nothing other than that the sound made is associated
with that fruit - a non-descriptive noun. Many of the descriptive nouns are
in such daily use we forget they're descriptive - we become blind to it -
such as in "hovercraft" and "automobile". It's easy in just about any
language, and it's likely to get universal approval quicker than inventing a
new word altogether. Fewer people will argue against you if your new noun is
a descriptive one with roots in the classic languages.
K
darius
> www.gibfocus.gi
> www.thenewpeople.net
> www.gibraltarkey.com
Does the GSLP key really count as a publication?
There is also 7days - which clearly has more to commend it as a
publication (and certainly for the online reader) than The Key.
Lynx
I agree with the latter. Even if I say so myself :)
Could there be a valid point in suggesting that when a people, any people,
who may be called to use a declared "official language" when dealing in
formal situations such as court of law, civil ceremonies, etc. etc. That
something might go amiss when they are not communicating in their colloquial
idiom? I am not only referring to the less educated, but to those who by
virtue of living within their own culture, find it necessary to have an
official language. In a bilingual society, when one of the two languages is
declared unofficial, it is almost like discarding 50% of the peoples
communicative abilities.
Jim Watt
wrote:
>Does the GSLP key really count as a publication?
Most certainly, it has a printed edition and a
web edition.
I forgot 'seven days' as haven't seen it on its
usual newstands for a while.
Theres also vox, 'the paper unsuitable for use
in the smallest room.'
It seems Iberianews has gone after a lingering
death, and gibraltarnewsonline suffers from a
lack of content.
Although its a long way away, Mercopress keeps
an eye on Gibraltar events.
eg
http://www.mercopress.com/vernoticia.do?id=11278&formato=HTML
Theres too much to read online these days, although
between the Chronicle and Gibfocus one gets most of the
news worth knowing with the minimum of ranting, the
others are amusing at times.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>
> Theres also vox, 'the paper unsuitable for use
> in the smallest room.'
I'm sure you've said this before about vox. I have no idea what vox's agenda
might be. I do recall vox being around back in the mid/late 60's. If I'm not
mistaken it was a new publication back then. So what's vox's angle on Gib?
And is it ideal for the smallest room (cuartito) because of its contents or
the delicate texture and quality of paper?
With such a prominent history behind it, how is it that the Gib Chronicle
can be so belligerently managed. The digital Chroc's Opinion and Comment
sections have not been updated in months! And I mean MONTHS!
How will the Chroc be archived and what place will it have in Gib's
Hemeroteca? :)
Ken
>
> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> news:gjv1e3tvtqukeqstl...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Theres also vox, 'the paper unsuitable for use
>> in the smallest room.'
>
> I'm sure you've said this before about vox. I have no idea what vox's
> agenda might be. I do recall vox being around back in the mid/late 60's.
> If I'm not mistaken it was a new publication back then. So what's vox's
> angle on Gib? And is it ideal for the smallest room (cuartito) because of
> its contents or the delicate texture and quality of paper?
I think - nay am certain - Jim is alluding to the content, which is directed
squarely and solely against the party which is in power in Gib at the
momemnt. When I read Vox I find my mind is transported to the days of
saturday matinee cinema, where the baddie (Caruana in their eyes) is dressed
in black, rides a black horse and has nbo redeeming features whatsover.
Meanwhile the perceived muchachito (Bossano, as far as Vox is concerned)
rides a white horse and his clothes are used as an advert for Persil. He
also helps little old ladies across the street and picks up fallen
butterflies. Frankly it's sooooooo polarised it's laughable. The web
presentation is fine, if too graphic so that here it's a slow load even
using a 6Meg broadband connection.
>
> With such a prominent history behind it, how is it that the Gib Chronicle
> can be so belligerently managed. The digital Chroc's Opinion and Comment
> sections have not been updated in months! And I mean MONTHS!
It survives exactly because it IS an institution. It's something that many
folk in Gib do daily as a ritual - get up, do one's necessaries in the
cuartito you mentioned earlier, have tea and toast, buy La Kronika on the
way to work etc etc.
> How will the Chroc be archived and what place will it have in Gib's
> Hemeroteca? :)
No hemerotecas in Gib, so no fear there.
K
Ken
No - it ensures that communicative abilities in the "official" language are
brought up to scratch or you suffer an obvious disadvantage in dealing with
officialdom. Take the example of a linguist in ANY country who might be
fluent in , for example, five languages. If he has to present himself before
the courts, fill in a ttax return form, enrol his children at school the
chances are it will be in THE official language of that country. Has he
wasted his time in being fluent in the other for? Of course not! All that
happens with the use of an official language is that a level playing field
is agreed upon by society to conduct its affairs in that language. Otherwise
you'd havethe spectacle of a court convening when the defence lawyer speaks
English, the prosecution chap speaks Portuguese, the judge is fluent only in
Swahili while the statue books are compiled in Magyar! At this point,
whatevr the defendant at plaintiff speak is frankly irrelevant!
:))
K
Lynx
Why don't you like the Hungarians? Remember Puskas? :)
You are absolutely right. And your example is most apt for a linguist.
However, I am refering to a people who are bilingual in their daily lives.
In a case such as court precedings, or any other formal function where oral
(and written) interaction is the name of the game, the use of one of the two
languages would be agreed beforehand. But being a BILINGUAL STATE, none of
the parties would at anytime have a problem with either languages. :)
Lynx
> news:yL8Ei.32191$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>> news:gjv1e3tvtqukeqstl...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Theres also vox, 'the paper unsuitable for use
>>> in the smallest room.'
>>
>> I'm sure you've said this before about vox. I have no idea what vox's
>> agenda might be. I do recall vox being around back in the mid/late 60's.
>> If I'm not mistaken it was a new publication back then. So what's vox's
>> angle on Gib? And is it ideal for the smallest room (cuartito) because of
>> its contents or the delicate texture and quality of paper?
>
> I think - nay am certain - Jim is alluding to the content, which is
> directed squarely and solely against the party which is in power in Gib at
> the momemnt. When I read Vox I find my mind is transported to the days of
> saturday matinee cinema, where the baddie (Caruana in their eyes) is
> dressed in black, rides a black horse and has nbo redeeming features
> whatsover. Meanwhile the perceived muchachito (Bossano, as far as Vox is
> concerned) rides a white horse and his clothes are used as an advert for
> Persil. He also helps little old ladies across the street and picks up
> fallen butterflies. Frankly it's sooooooo polarised it's laughable. The
> web presentation is fine, if too graphic so that here it's a slow load
> even using a 6Meg broadband connection.
I see, so Gib has a COMIC after all! :)
Actually, if anything, Bossano (con el pedaso de bigote - not bigoted)
would look more the villain than pail-faced Charlie! :)
>> With such a prominent history behind it, how is it that the Gib Chronicle
>> can be so belligerently managed. The digital Chroc's Opinion and Comment
>> sections have not been updated in months! And I mean MONTHS!
>
> It survives exactly because it IS an institution. It's something that many
> folk in Gib do daily as a ritual - get up, do one's necessaries in the
> cuartito you mentioned earlier, have tea and toast, buy La Kronika on the
> way to work etc etc.
And it's so easy to fall into that habit even when you're holidaying there!
I enjoyed reading it in AM at Sacarello's coffee house. Must've been the
coffee aroma infused with the mind numbing reading! :)
>> How will the Chroc be archived and what place will it have in Gib's
>> Hemeroteca? :)
>
> No hemerotecas in Gib, so no fear there.
What? No hemeroteca in Gib?! The thought of it is enough to give any
historian haemorrhoids!
Ken
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:fbrlh...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote in message
>> news:yL8Ei.32191$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>>> news:gjv1e3tvtqukeqstl...@4ax.com...
>>>>
> Actually, if anything, Bossano (con el pedaso de bigote - not bigoted)
> would look more the villain than pail-faced Charlie! :)
His sartorial preferences some yeaes ago made him look more like Columbo I
thought - a light brown mac, worn in all seasons.
>
>>> With such a prominent history behind it, how is it that the Gib
>>> Chronicle can be so belligerently managed. The digital Chroc's Opinion
>>> and Comment sections have not been updated in months! And I mean MONTHS!
>>
>> It survives exactly because it IS an institution. It's something that
>> many folk in Gib do daily as a ritual - get up, do one's necessaries in
>> the cuartito you mentioned earlier, have tea and toast, buy La Kronika on
>> the way to work etc etc.
>
> And it's so easy to fall into that habit even when you're holidaying
> there! I enjoyed reading it in AM at Sacarello's coffee house. Must've
> been the coffee aroma infused with the mind numbing reading! :)
I do exactly the same at the Piazza (I know you hate the name, but there you
are) esp now that they sell Calentita every day up 'til 12:30. So much so
that my wife and brats have taken to calling it my "office"
>
>>> How will the Chroc be archived and what place will it have in Gib's
>>> Hemeroteca? :)
>>
>> No hemerotecas in Gib, so no fear there.
>
> What? No hemeroteca in Gib?! The thought of it is enough to give any
> historian haemorrhoids!
A painful condition if thever there was!
K
Ken
I do - and was discussing his talent with an elderly Magyar I met today. It
was shameful the way Real Madrid dealt with his widow.
> You are absolutely right. And your example is most apt for a linguist.
> However, I am refering to a people who are bilingual in their daily lives.
> In a case such as court precedings, or any other formal function where
> oral (and written) interaction is the name of the game, the use of one of
> the two languages would be agreed beforehand. But being a BILINGUAL STATE,
> none of the parties would at anytime have a problem with either languages.
> :)
But they might. Taking the example of the courts, all the lawyers in Gib
have done their training at UK Universities and Gib law is v similar to UK
law, which is in Eng. It follows then that the lawyers, magistrates and
judges may not be as familiar with Sp terminology. Further, given that the
UK and Sp legal systems are quite different, there may not actually be
directly translatable terms for some things. Stick to Eng therefore.
Take medicine. Those trained in one language may find difficulty translatig
into another. Here there must be translatable terms as ultimately we are
dealing with the same species, so the same physiology, pathology etc
applies - but do you know allt he terms? I was speaking to a Sp anaesthetist
some months back. Though from Toledo (he was v impressed when I correctly
identified his provenance from the particular Sp accent with which he spoke
Eng!) and though having gone through medical school in Madrid, he PREFERRED
to communicate medical matters i English. Why? Because all the major
textbooks in his field are in English, and becuase of lack of volume issues
few are translated into Spanish. Furthemore all the important world research
is published in English, is read in English, is discussed in English - and
frankly HE didn't know all the terms in Sp either. So what chance do I have?
QED (Latin, of course!)
Ken
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote in message
> news:s6dEi.32267$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>>
>> Why don't you like the Hungarians? Remember Puskas? :)
>
> I do - and was discussing his talent with an elderly Magyar I met today.
> It was shameful the way Real Madrid dealt with his widow.
I saw him when he came over, unexpectedly, to coach a local predominantly
Eastern European soccer club. He was overweight and not a shadow of the man
we all remember. Nothing came of his visit here, shortly after that I heard
he was no longer with us.
But what's this about his widow and Real Madrid? What was her role in the
club?
>
>
>> You are absolutely right. And your example is most apt for a linguist.
>> However, I am refering to a people who are bilingual in their daily
>> lives. In a case such as court precedings, or any other formal function
>> where oral (and written) interaction is the name of the game, the use of
>> one of the two languages would be agreed beforehand. But being a
>> BILINGUAL STATE, none of the parties would at anytime have a problem with
>> either languages. :)
>
> But they might. Taking the example of the courts, all the lawyers in Gib
> have done their training at UK Universities and Gib law is v similar to UK
> law, which is in Eng. It follows then that the lawyers, magistrates and
> judges may not be as familiar with Sp terminology. Further, given that the
> UK and Sp legal systems are quite different, there may not actually be
> directly translatable terms for some things. Stick to Eng therefore.
Ah! So we have a situation where two languages are widely spoken, making the
people bilingual. Yet, one of the two languages predominates when it comes
to legalities. How does this affect the intellectual capacity of the
layperson who may have to attend to a legal situation e.g. attending court.
Would such an individual not instinctively be made to feel they're on some
one else's turf and not their own?
I am not suggesting anything other than pointing out the disadvantages in
any given bilingual State, in which the popular language is systematically
supplanted by the other. When's the I.C. opening its doors? :)
> Take medicine. Those trained in one language may find difficulty
> translatig into another. Here there must be translatable terms as
> ultimately we are dealing with the same species, so the same physiology,
> pathology etc applies - but do you know allt he terms? I was speaking to a
> Sp anaesthetist some months back. Though from Toledo (he was v impressed
> when I correctly identified his provenance from the particular Sp accent
> with which he spoke Eng!) and though having gone through medical school in
> Madrid, he PREFERRED to communicate medical matters i English. Why?
> Because all the major textbooks in his field are in English, and becuase
> of lack of volume issues few are translated into Spanish. Furthemore all
> the important world research is published in English, is read in English,
> is discussed in English - and frankly HE didn't know all the terms in Sp
> either. So what chance do I have?
Agreed. I couldn't deal in a legal system, as I do when applying
legislation, in any language other than English. But my point is to do with
a State where the inhabitants have to (they have no choice!) resort to one
of the two languages they're known to command. How would it be if they could
express their sentiments and describe situations in their own colloquial
language in a legal forum.
How right you are, when a native Spanish speaker speaks English they give
themselves away with the first syllable.
Recently I asked a Spanish IT tech, what do you call Hard Disc in Spanish.
Reply: Disco Duro.
> QED (Latin, of course!)
Mutatio elenchi (Latin, of course!)
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote in message
> news:3fdEi.32270$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:fbrlh...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote in message
>>> news:yL8Ei.32191$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>
>>>> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>>>> news:gjv1e3tvtqukeqstl...@4ax.com...
>>>>>
>> I see, so Gib has a COMIC after all! :)
>> Actually, if anything, Bossano (con el pedaso de bigote - not bigoted)
>> would look more the villain than pail-faced Charlie! :)
>
> His sartorial preferences some yeaes ago made him look more like Columbo I
> thought - a light brown mac, worn in all seasons.
He reminds me of Groucho Marx.
>>>> With such a prominent history behind it, how is it that the Gib
>>>> Chronicle can be so belligerently managed. The digital Chroc's Opinion
>>>> and Comment sections have not been updated in months! And I mean
>>>> MONTHS!
>>>
>>> It survives exactly because it IS an institution. It's something that
>>> many folk in Gib do daily as a ritual - get up, do one's necessaries in
>>> the cuartito you mentioned earlier, have tea and toast, buy La Kronika
>>> on the way to work etc etc.
>>
>> And it's so easy to fall into that habit even when you're holidaying
>> there! I enjoyed reading it in AM at Sacarello's coffee house. Must've
>> been the coffee aroma infused with the mind numbing reading! :)
> I do exactly the same at the Piazza (I know you hate the name, but there
> you are) esp now that they sell Calentita every day up 'til 12:30. So much
> so that my wife and brats have taken to calling it my "office"
Sounds just great, the Calentita I mean. Which I much prefer to have with a
black tea, no sugar. Hell! I'm so overdue for a holiday back home it's not
funny!
I don't hate the name Piazza, I just find it incongruous.
>>>> How will the Chroc be archived and what place will it have in Gib's
>>>> Hemeroteca? :)
>>>
>>> No hemerotecas in Gib, so no fear there.
>>
>> What? No hemeroteca in Gib?! The thought of it is enough to give any
>> historian haemorrhoids!
>
> A painful condition if thever there was!
So I beleive.
Jim Watt
>> A painful condition if thever there was!
>
>So I beleive.
amplus poena tergum
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:38:31 GMT, "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote:
>
>>> A painful condition if thever there was!
>>
>>So I beleive.
>
> amplus poena tergum
nullus quasso colei
Ken
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:38:31 GMT, "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote:
>
>>> A painful condition if thever there was!
>>
>>So I beleive.
>
> amplus poena tergum
I have an excellent remedy for it!
K
Ken
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:fbsl5...@news1.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote in message
>> news:s6dEi.32267$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
> snip
>>>
>>> Why don't you like the Hungarians? Remember Puskas? :)
>>
>> I do - and was discussing his talent with an elderly Magyar I met today.
>> It was shameful the way Real Madrid dealt with his widow.
>
> I saw him when he came over, unexpectedly, to coach a local predominantly
> Eastern European soccer club. He was overweight and not a shadow of the
> man we all remember. Nothing came of his visit here, shortly after that I
> heard he was no longer with us.
>
> But what's this about his widow and Real Madrid? What was her role in the
> club?
She had no role in the club AFAIK. However Puskas did play for Real Madrid
for many years, before the days of the galactic-sized wages currently paid
to star players. Once Major P died, his widow was left fairly destitute.
Notonly were these the days before large salaries, but also before many folk
considered pensions. After all, life expectancy was shorter, many people
died while still working and long healthy retirements were virtually
unknown. So, Real Madril organised a friendly match against somone or other
(I'm no footie fan, so I'm rather short on detail) with the stated intention
of giving Mrs Puskas a healthy wad of spondoolies so that she could be
comfortable in her old age. The match was a sell out, and Mrs Puskas was
given the princely sum of a few thousand pounds only, when very much more
had been collected. Creative accounting was thought to have been employed in
clawing back much of the cash raised as expenses incurred, leaving precious
little for the dear old gal.
>>
>>
>>> You are absolutely right. And your example is most apt for a linguist.
>>> However, I am refering to a people who are bilingual in their daily
>>> lives. In a case such as court precedings, or any other formal function
>>> where oral (and written) interaction is the name of the game, the use of
>>> one of the two languages would be agreed beforehand. But being a
>>> BILINGUAL STATE, none of the parties would at anytime have a problem
>>> with either languages. :)
>>
>> But they might. Taking the example of the courts, all the lawyers in Gib
>> have done their training at UK Universities and Gib law is v similar to
>> UK law, which is in Eng. It follows then that the lawyers, magistrates
>> and judges may not be as familiar with Sp terminology. Further, given
>> that the UK and Sp legal systems are quite different, there may not
>> actually be directly translatable terms for some things. Stick to Eng
>> therefore.
>
> Ah! So we have a situation where two languages are widely spoken, making
> the people bilingual. Yet, one of the two languages predominates when it
> comes to legalities. How does this affect the intellectual capacity of the
> layperson who may have to attend to a legal situation e.g. attending
> court. Would such an individual not instinctively be made to feel they're
> on some one else's turf and not their own?
Why? Why ever would that person, brought up in that society, feel anything
but at home when for as long as everyone can remember- including this
person's entie upbringing, everything was done in Eng? When for example as a
student I applied for funding so I could go to University the forms I filled
in were all in English. The tax returns I filled in when working thee were
all in English. The paperwork concerned when I was working there was all in
English. All my schooling had been done in English. It would come as no
surprise at all when, had I been called upon to attend court, that too
should have been all in English. My experiences are not unique, and you
should know this.All and anything and everything of any importance in Gib is
conducted in English. No-one would be surprised at all, and no-one would be
made to feel uncomfortable as a result.
> I am not suggesting anything other than pointing out the disadvantages in
> any given bilingual State, in which the popular language is systematically
> supplanted by the other. When's the I.C. opening its doors? :)
English does not supplant Sp. Both have their place, and they have their
boundaries. While Eng is the language of all officialdom, it is also used
for all and every other purpose. Sp has for many decades now been just the
language of the street. It is also useful when going to Sp. I also found it
useful i Florida, where most people involved in the tourism industry at the
point of contact with the public were better versed in Sp than Eng -
presumably all theCubans and Puerto Rique~os. However all their bosses spoke
Eng, and if they spoke ANY Sp it was v limited and heavily accented.
>
>> Take medicine. Those trained in one language may find difficulty
>> translatig into another. Here there must be translatable terms as
>> ultimately we are dealing with the same species, so the same physiology,
>> pathology etc applies - but do you know allt he terms? I was speaking to
>> a Sp anaesthetist some months back. Though from Toledo (he was v
>> impressed when I correctly identified his provenance from the particular
>> Sp accent with which he spoke Eng!) and though having gone through
>> medical school in Madrid, he PREFERRED to communicate medical matters i
>> English. Why? Because all the major textbooks in his field are in
>> English, and becuase of lack of volume issues few are translated into
>> Spanish. Furthemore all the important world research is published in
>> English, is read in English, is discussed in English - and frankly HE
>> didn't know all the terms in Sp either. So what chance do I have?
>
> Agreed. I couldn't deal in a legal system, as I do when applying
> legislation, in any language other than English. But my point is to do
> with a State where the inhabitants have to (they have no choice!) resort
> to one of the two languages they're known to command. How would it be if
> they could express their sentiments and describe situations in their own
> colloquial language in a legal forum.
No-one seems to be rattling this cage other than yourself. Might I suggest
no-one else gives a damn, in which case what's yor fuss about?
> How right you are, when a native Spanish speaker speaks English they give
> themselves away with the first syllable.
> Recently I asked a Spanish IT tech, what do you call Hard Disc in Spanish.
> Reply: Disco Duro.
The mouse, in similarly inventive translational style, is referred to as a
raton. However I have heard of the name computer translated as ordenadora -
which implies it's being seen as an electronic version of a filing cabinet.
That more accurately reflects the funtion of storage media, not the
processors.
>> QED (Latin, of course!)
>
> Mutatio elenchi (Latin, of course!)
Which brings me to wonder why the Italian car giant Fiat has never had a
model called the Lux. Fiat Lux! And the earth was covered in light. Very
much as a Faro alumbrates.
K
Lynx
>
> She had no role in the club AFAIK. However Puskas did play for Real Madrid
> for many years, before the days of the galactic-sized wages currently paid
> to star players. Once Major P died, his widow was left fairly destitute.
> Notonly were these the days before large salaries, but also before many
> folk considered pensions. After all, life expectancy was shorter, many
> people died while still working and long healthy retirements were
> virtually unknown. So, Real Madril organised a friendly match against
> somone or other (I'm no footie fan, so I'm rather short on detail) with
> the stated intention of giving Mrs Puskas a healthy wad of spondoolies so
> that she could be comfortable in her old age. The match was a sell out,
> and Mrs Puskas was given the princely sum of a few thousand pounds only,
> when very much more had been collected. Creative accounting was thought to
> have been employed in clawing back much of the cash raised as expenses
> incurred, leaving precious little for the dear old gal.
Had no idea. A very shameful thing to do. I always thought he would have
catered for his and wife's retirement years. Distefano and Amancio come to
mind. I wonder how they're doing.
> Why? Why ever would that person, brought up in that society, feel anything
> but at home when for as long as everyone can remember- including this
> person's entie upbringing, everything was done in Eng? When for example as
> a student I applied for funding so I could go to University the forms I
> filled in were all in English. The tax returns I filled in when working
> thee were all in English. The paperwork concerned when I was working there
> was all in English. All my schooling had been done in English. It would
> come as no surprise at all when, had I been called upon to attend court,
> that too should have been all in English. My experiences are not unique,
> and you should know this.All and anything and everything of any importance
> in Gib is conducted in English. No-one would be surprised at all, and
> no-one would be made to feel uncomfortable as a result.
I am not arguing the points you make. The point I am trying to make is, if
we are considered bilingual, as indeed we, why should one language
predominate over the other? I can understand this being the case back in
colonial days. But we seem to be seeking quasi independance or autonomy, and
yet when it comes to the very languages we use on a daily basis, we seem to
have acquired the worst of complexes with regards to Spanish. No one has any
qualms about our homespun words, which, hopefully, will survive as a
fingerprint of our past. But even the suggestion of recognising Spanish as a
spoken language, and all I get are denials.
Sorry amigo, if I have offended you. It's just a discussion.
>> I am not suggesting anything other than pointing out the disadvantages in
>> any given bilingual State, in which the popular language is
>> systematically supplanted by the other. When's the I.C. opening its
>> doors? :)
>
> English does not supplant Sp. Both have their place, and they have their
> boundaries. While Eng is the language of all officialdom, it is also used
> for all and every other purpose. Sp has for many decades now been just the
> language of the street. It is also useful when going to Sp. I also found
> it useful i Florida, where most people involved in the tourism industry at
> the point of contact with the public were better versed in Sp than Eng -
> presumably all theCubans and Puerto Rique~os. However all their bosses
> spoke Eng, and if they spoke ANY Sp it was v limited and heavily accented.
Your interpretation and experiences of the Spanish language are tainted with
racism, and you don't even realize it.
And you're still missing my point. If Sp in Gib is the language of the
street, which it is, what do Gibbos do when they walk past their home doors,
switch their hard-drive to Eng? Next thing you'll say is that Gibraltarian
are a phlegmatic lot as well!
>> Agreed. I couldn't deal in a legal system, as I do when applying
>> legislation, in any language other than English. But my point is to do
>> with a State where the inhabitants have to (they have no choice!) resort
>> to one of the two languages they're known to command. How would it be if
>> they could express their sentiments and describe situations in their own
>> colloquial language in a legal forum.
>
> No-one seems to be rattling this cage other than yourself. Might I suggest
> no-one else gives a damn, in which case what's yor fuss about?
How un-British of you... or did you say that with a twang...
>> How right you are, when a native Spanish speaker speaks English they give
>> themselves away with the first syllable.
>> Recently I asked a Spanish IT tech, what do you call Hard Disc in
>> Spanish. Reply: Disco Duro.
>
> The mouse, in similarly inventive translational style, is referred to as a
> raton. However I have heard of the name computer translated as
> ordenadora - which implies it's being seen as an electronic version of a
> filing cabinet. That more accurately reflects the funtion of storage
> media, not the processors.
Yes, I to have heard the term ordenadora applied by andalusians, while TVE1
commentators seem to use the term computadora.
>>> QED (Latin, of course!)
>>
>> Mutatio elenchi (Latin, of course!)
>
> Which brings me to wonder why the Italian car giant Fiat has never had a
> model called the Lux. Fiat Lux! And the earth was covered in light. Very
> much as a Faro alumbrates.
Very good. Now where can I purchase a copy of books advertise in the Gib
Museum webpage, hmmmm?
Ken
Go wash your mouth out, and lots of saponis!
K
Ken
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:fbtvb...@news5.newsguy.com...
>>
>> She had no role in the club AFAIK. However Puskas did play for Real
>> Madrid for many years, before the days of the galactic-sized wages
>> currently paid to star players. Once Major P died, his widow was left
>> fairly destitute. Notonly were these the days before large salaries, but
>> also before many folk considered pensions. After all, life expectancy was
>> shorter, many people died while still working and long healthy
>> retirements were virtually unknown. So, Real Madril organised a friendly
>> match against somone or other (I'm no footie fan, so I'm rather short on
>> detail) with the stated intention of giving Mrs Puskas a healthy wad of
>> spondoolies so that she could be comfortable in her old age. The match
>> was a sell out, and Mrs Puskas was given the princely sum of a few
>> thousand pounds only, when very much more had been collected. Creative
>> accounting was thought to have been employed in clawing back much of the
>> cash raised as expenses incurred, leaving precious little for the dear
>> old gal.
>
> Had no idea. A very shameful thing to do. I always thought he would have
> catered for his and wife's retirement years. Distefano and Amancio come to
> mind. I wonder how they're doing.
No idea. Throw in Eusebio for good measure.
>
>> Why? Why ever would that person, brought up in that society, feel
>> anything but at home when for as long as everyone can remember- including
>> this person's entie upbringing, everything was done in Eng? When for
>> example as a student I applied for funding so I could go to University
>> the forms I filled in were all in English. The tax returns I filled in
>> when working thee were all in English. The paperwork concerned when I was
>> working there was all in English. All my schooling had been done in
>> English. It would come as no surprise at all when, had I been called upon
>> to attend court, that too should have been all in English. My experiences
>> are not unique, and you should know this.All and anything and everything
>> of any importance in Gib is conducted in English. No-one would be
>> surprised at all, and no-one would be made to feel uncomfortable as a
>> result.
>
> I am not arguing the points you make. The point I am trying to make is, if
> we are considered bilingual, as indeed we, why should one language
> predominate over the other? I can understand this being the case back in
> colonial days.
A legacy thereof perhaps, but it remains the case that Eng is the
global-dominant language in all matters that Gib is getting recognised as a
good place to do business. We have a head start, why handicap ourselves by
trying to do everything in Sp too when Eng is preferred by everyone else?
> But we seem to be seeking quasi independance or autonomy, and yet when it
> comes to the very languages we use on a daily basis, we seem to have
> acquired the worst of complexes with regards to Spanish. No one has any
> qualms about our homespun words, which, hopefully, will survive as a
> fingerprint of our past. But even the suggestion of recognising Spanish as
> a spoken language, and all I get are denials.
Well, perhaps if Sp - the guardian of the Sp lang after all - were not,
well, how do you say, Spanish over the whole idea of sovereignty then
perhaps we woudl not shun her symbols. OK, we shun some more than others and
polvorones and Jerez less than some, but there you are.
> Sorry amigo, if I have offended you. It's just a discussion.
No offence taken! Why would I?
>>> I am not suggesting anything other than pointing out the disadvantages
>>> in any given bilingual State, in which the popular language is
>>> systematically supplanted by the other. When's the I.C. opening its
>>> doors? :)
>>
>> English does not supplant Sp. Both have their place, and they have their
>> boundaries. While Eng is the language of all officialdom, it is also used
>> for all and every other purpose. Sp has for many decades now been just
>> the language of the street. It is also useful when going to Sp. I also
>> found it useful i Florida, where most people involved in the tourism
>> industry at the point of contact with the public were better versed in Sp
>> than Eng - presumably all theCubans and Puerto Rique~os. However all
>> their bosses spoke Eng, and if they spoke ANY Sp it was v limited and
>> heavily accented.
>
> Your interpretation and experiences of the Spanish language are tainted
> with racism, and you don't even realize it.
Hard facts. It is not racist to recognise difference where they exist, it
may be racist to deny their existance however
> And you're still missing my point. If Sp in Gib is the language of the
> street, which it is, what do Gibbos do when they walk past their home
> doors, switch their hard-drive to Eng?
I can't say never having seen very many Gib-owned PCs. Given that PCs are
more likely to be owned and run by the younger generations, I would be very
surprised if there were many - even ANY - PCs in Gib homes whose default
language were set to Sp. But stop getting at me, start a campaign in Gib to
embrace the Sp language instead of Eng. I doubt you'll get very far.
>Next thing you'll say is that Gibraltarian are a phlegmatic lot as well!
Depends on whether you have a bad chase of brochitis.
>
>>> Agreed. I couldn't deal in a legal system, as I do when applying
>>> legislation, in any language other than English. But my point is to do
>>> with a State where the inhabitants have to (they have no choice!) resort
>>> to one of the two languages they're known to command. How would it be if
>>> they could express their sentiments and describe situations in their own
>>> colloquial language in a legal forum.
>>
>> No-one seems to be rattling this cage other than yourself. Might I
>> suggest no-one else gives a damn, in which case what's yor fuss about?
>
> How un-British of you... or did you say that with a twang...
No, no twangs.
>
>>> How right you are, when a native Spanish speaker speaks English they
>>> give themselves away with the first syllable.
>>> Recently I asked a Spanish IT tech, what do you call Hard Disc in
>>> Spanish. Reply: Disco Duro.
>>
>> The mouse, in similarly inventive translational style, is referred to as
>> a raton. However I have heard of the name computer translated as
>> ordenadora - which implies it's being seen as an electronic version of a
>> filing cabinet. That more accurately reflects the funtion of storage
>> media, not the processors.
>
> Yes, I to have heard the term ordenadora applied by andalusians, while
> TVE1 commentators seem to use the term computadora.
Might I suggest an alternative spelling, COMPUTIDORA as in here there is no
ofensive word nested within the larger?
>
>>>> QED (Latin, of course!)
>>>
>>> Mutatio elenchi (Latin, of course!)
>>
>> Which brings me to wonder why the Italian car giant Fiat has never had a
>> model called the Lux. Fiat Lux! And the earth was covered in light. Very
>> much as a Faro alumbrates.
>
> Very good. Now where can I purchase a copy of books advertise in the Gib
> Museum webpage, hmmmm?
Try Gib Bookshop, opposite the courts towards the s end of Main St.
K
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote in message
> news:mXvEi.32543$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> Had no idea. A very shameful thing to do. I always thought he would have
>> catered for his and wife's retirement years. Distefano and Amancio come
>> to mind. I wonder how they're doing.
>
> No idea. Throw in Eusebio for good measure.
No idea alright, wasn't he Portuguese?
>> I am not arguing the points you make. The point I am trying to make is,
>> if we are considered bilingual, as indeed we, why should one language
>> predominate over the other? I can understand this being the case back in
>> colonial days.
>
> A legacy thereof perhaps, but it remains the case that Eng is the
> global-dominant language in all matters that Gib is getting recognised as
> a good place to do business. We have a head start, why handicap ourselves
> by trying to do everything in Sp too when Eng is preferred by everyone
> else?
Absolutely, there's international English, and then there's native English.
Whoever said we should everything in Sp?
If you're right-handed, does it follow you should throw your left hand away?
>> But we seem to be seeking quasi independance or autonomy, and yet when it
>> comes to the very languages we use on a daily basis, we seem to have
>> acquired the worst of complexes with regards to Spanish. No one has any
>> qualms about our homespun words, which, hopefully, will survive as a
>> fingerprint of our past. But even the suggestion of recognising Spanish
>> as a spoken language, and all I get are denials.
>
> Well, perhaps if Sp - the guardian of the Sp lang after all - were not,
> well, how do you say, Spanish over the whole idea of sovereignty then
> perhaps we woudl not shun her symbols. OK, we shun some more than others
> and polvorones and Jerez less than some, but there you are.
Looks to me like you're allowing the attitude of others determine your
stance on that half of you which knows Sp. Not me old chap, I speak the
language and I'm proud I can command two languages. That's more than some
people can do.
>> Sorry amigo, if I have offended you. It's just a discussion.
>
> No offence taken! Why would I?
Precisely!
>> Your interpretation and experiences of the Spanish language are tainted
>> with racism, and you don't even realize it.
>
> Hard facts. It is not racist to recognise difference where they exist, it
> may be racist to deny their existance however
Missed your call in life. Spin Dr.
>> And you're still missing my point. If Sp in Gib is the language of the
>> street, which it is, what do Gibbos do when they walk past their home
>> doors, switch their hard-drive to Eng?
>
> I can't say never having seen very many Gib-owned PCs. Given that PCs are
> more likely to be owned and run by the younger generations, I would be
> very surprised if there were many - even ANY - PCs in Gib homes whose
> default language were set to Sp. But stop getting at me, start a campaign
> in Gib to embrace the Sp language instead of Eng. I doubt you'll get very
> far.
I wasn't talking about PC's.
>>Next thing you'll say is that Gibraltarian are a phlegmatic lot as well!
>
> Depends on whether you have a bad chase of brochitis.
Very good. Anti-biotics do away with fungi?
BTW, do you know the plural of the name Angus?
>> How un-British of you... or did you say that with a twang...
>
> No, no twangs.
Rude then....
>> Yes, I to have heard the term ordenadora applied by andalusians, while
>> TVE1 commentators seem to use the term computadora.
>
> Might I suggest an alternative spelling, COMPUTIDORA as in here there is
> no ofensive word nested within the larger?
No you may not. The word is COMPUTADORA, because it COMPUTES = COMPUTAR.
Come to think of it, so do the other species you're thinking of :)
>>>>> QED (Latin, of course!)
>>>>
>>>> Mutatio elenchi (Latin, of course!)
>>>
>>> Which brings me to wonder why the Italian car giant Fiat has never had a
>>> model called the Lux. Fiat Lux! And the earth was covered in light. Very
>>> much as a Faro alumbrates.
>>
>> Very good. Now where can I purchase a copy of books advertise in the Gib
>> Museum webpage, hmmmm?
>
> Try Gib Bookshop, opposite the courts towards the s end of Main St.
Very good, why, I'll just go for a stroll this avo........
Lynx
I'm a clean individual, including my colei :)
Ken
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:fbu6c...@news5.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote in message
>> news:mXvEi.32543$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> English.
I would go further and suggest there is a spectrum of English. After all,
within the UK itself what passes for normal in one part of the nation is
very different to the norm elsewhere.
> Whoever said we should everything in Sp?
Ah here's the difference. You would we did some things in one, the other or
both languages. I say, why do we need to do ANYTHING in Sp?
OK, so ,ost folk in Gib speak (a form of) Sp. An increasing proportion,
still a minority, of the population is fluent in Arabic. Is that a case for
the adoption of Arabic in officialdom? What about Hebrew? There's been a
Hebrew-speaking minority in Gib for centuries. According to the CIA
factbook, Russian is spoken in Gib too. Where did they ever get that idea?
> If you're right-handed, does it follow you should throw your left hand
> away?
No of course not - but when you fell the weight of the hammer you use the
right hand, not the left. At all. The left is only used to hold nails.
> Looks to me like you're allowing the attitude of others determine your
> stance on that half of you which knows Sp. Not me old chap, I speak the
> language and I'm proud I can command two languages. That's more than some
> people can do.
Why do you always assume I'm led by others? I can manage two languages too
and frankly, if I didn't have Sp I can't imagine I would feel the poorer for
it. The only time I use it is when visiting Sp on short excursions from Gib.
In Gib itself, v rarely used. Certainly not at home, barely with friends.
> Missed your call in life. Spin Dr.
DJs no longer have access to spinning discs. CDs, lasers and all that
>
>>> And you're still missing my point. If Sp in Gib is the language of the
>>> street, which it is, what do Gibbos do when they walk past their home
>>> doors, switch their hard-drive to Eng?
>>
>> I can't say never having seen very many Gib-owned PCs. Given that PCs are
>> more likely to be owned and run by the younger generations, I would be
>> very surprised if there were many - even ANY - PCs in Gib homes whose
>> default language were set to Sp. But stop getting at me, start a campaign
>> in Gib to embrace the Sp language instead of Eng. I doubt you'll get very
>> far.
>
> I wasn't talking about PC's.
Who brought up "hard disc" = "disco duro" ?
>>>Next thing you'll say is that Gibraltarian are a phlegmatic lot as well!
>>
>> Depends on whether you have a bad chase of brochitis.
>
> Very good. Anti-biotics do away with fungi?
You need the right anti-fungal for your fungus.
> BTW, do you know the plural of the name Angus?
No.
>
>>> How un-British of you... or did you say that with a twang...
>>
>> No, no twangs.
>
> Rude then....
>
>>> Yes, I to have heard the term ordenadora applied by andalusians, while
>>> TVE1 commentators seem to use the term computadora.
>>
>> Might I suggest an alternative spelling, COMPUTIDORA as in here there is
>> no ofensive word nested within the larger?
>
> No you may not. The word is COMPUTADORA, because it COMPUTES = COMPUTAR.
> Come to think of it, so do the other species you're thinking of :)
So tell me, why not COMPUTIR? After all the IR ending is an accepted ending
for Sp infintives.
K
Ken
No-one's is that clean!
K
Lynx
Of course we are. Check your Latin!
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote in message
> news:RlyEi.32604$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:fbu6c...@news5.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote in message
>>> news:mXvEi.32543$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> Absolutely, there's international English, and then there's native
>> English.
>
> I would go further and suggest there is a spectrum of English. After all,
> within the UK itself what passes for normal in one part of the nation is
> very different to the norm elsewhere.
And how does the legal system deal with that?!
>> Whoever said we should everything in Sp?
>
> Ah here's the difference. You would we did some things in one, the other
> or both languages. I say, why do we need to do ANYTHING in Sp?
Because the whole friggin neighbourhood speaks the language on a daily
basis. And so, it should be a matter of choice.
> OK, so ,ost folk in Gib speak (a form of) Sp. An increasing proportion,
> still a minority, of the population is fluent in Arabic. Is that a case
> for the adoption of Arabic in officialdom? What about Hebrew? There's been
> a Hebrew-speaking minority in Gib for centuries. According to the CIA
> factbook, Russian is spoken in Gib too. Where did they ever get that idea?
Absolute rubbish.
>> If you're right-handed, does it follow you should throw your left hand
>> away?
>
> No of course not - but when you fell the weight of the hammer you use the
> right hand, not the left. At all. The left is only used to hold nails.
You still make use of your left hand.
>> Looks to me like you're allowing the attitude of others determine your
>> stance on that half of you which knows Sp. Not me old chap, I speak the
>> language and I'm proud I can command two languages. That's more than some
>> people can do.
>
> Why do you always assume I'm led by others? I can manage two languages too
> and frankly, if I didn't have Sp I can't imagine I would feel the poorer
> for it. The only time I use it is when visiting Sp on short excursions
> from Gib. In Gib itself, v rarely used. Certainly not at home, barely with
> friends.
Your loss. I'd like to beleive you compa.
>> Missed your call in life. Spin Dr.
>
> DJs no longer have access to spinning discs. CDs, lasers and all that
Who says? Seen the young kids doing their rap thing scratching records?
>>>> And you're still missing my point. If Sp in Gib is the language of the
>>>> street, which it is, what do Gibbos do when they walk past their home
>>>> doors, switch their hard-drive to Eng?
>>>
>>> I can't say never having seen very many Gib-owned PCs. Given that PCs
>>> are more likely to be owned and run by the younger generations, I would
>>> be very surprised if there were many - even ANY - PCs in Gib homes whose
>>> default language were set to Sp. But stop getting at me, start a
>>> campaign in Gib to embrace the Sp language instead of Eng. I doubt
>>> you'll get very far.
>>
>> I wasn't talking about PC's.
>
> Who brought up "hard disc" = "disco duro" ?
In this instance hard disc as in brain. The thread's gone too far now.
>> BTW, do you know the plural of the name Angus?
>
> No.
Angi...as in fungi......hee hee hee
>>
>>>> Yes, I to have heard the term ordenadora applied by andalusians, while
>>>> TVE1 commentators seem to use the term computadora.
>>>
>>> Might I suggest an alternative spelling, COMPUTIDORA as in here there is
>>> no ofensive word nested within the larger?
>>
>> No you may not. The word is COMPUTADORA, because it COMPUTES = COMPUTAR.
>> Come to think of it, so do the other species you're thinking of :)
>
> So tell me, why not COMPUTIR? After all the IR ending is an accepted
> ending for Sp infintives.
Because that would be the verb.
Jim Watt
>>> No you may not. The word is COMPUTADORA, because it COMPUTES = COMPUTAR.
No its not, that word might be used particularly in llanito
but the correct Spanish term is ordenador.
Ken
Of course you're not. Check with a petri dish and some blood agar, incubate
72 hrs at 37ºC.
K
Ken
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:fburf...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote in message
>> news:RlyEi.32604$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:fbu6c...@news5.newsguy.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Lynx" <Ly...@broad.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:mXvEi.32543$4A1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> Absolutely, there's international English, and then there's native
>>> English.
>>
>> I would go further and suggest there is a spectrum of English. After all,
>> within the UK itself what passes for normal in one part of the nation is
>> very different to the norm elsewhere.
>
> And how does the legal system deal with that?!
They're not that different that they cannot be understood.
>>> Whoever said we should everything in Sp?
>>
>> Ah here's the difference. You would we did some things in one, the other
>> or both languages. I say, why do we need to do ANYTHING in Sp?
>
> Because the whole friggin neighbourhood speaks the language on a daily
> basis. And so, it should be a matter of choice.
It appears the whole f***** neighbourhood is not bothered to the extent you
are and is happy to have an Eng-only system.
>>> If you're right-handed, does it follow you should throw your left hand
>>> away?
>>
>> No of course not - but when you fell the weight of the hammer you use the
>> right hand, not the left. At all. The left is only used to hold nails.
>
> You still make use of your left hand.
Yes - but not for the purposes of driving nails. Just like in Gib we may
speak Sp but do not make use of it for official purposes.
>>> Looks to me like you're allowing the attitude of others determine your
>>> stance on that half of you which knows Sp. Not me old chap, I speak the
>>> language and I'm proud I can command two languages. That's more than
>>> some people can do.
>>
>> Why do you always assume I'm led by others? I can manage two languages
>> too and frankly, if I didn't have Sp I can't imagine I would feel the
>> poorer for it. The only time I use it is when visiting Sp on short
>> excursions from Gib. In Gib itself, v rarely used. Certainly not at home,
>> barely with friends.
>
> Your loss. I'd like to beleive you compa.
Believe what you like. I don't feel bad about it. It just is. It doesn't
bother me. I could lose it tomorrow and not miss it, unless I went to Sp -
something I do so rarely it's notreally on my radar. Actually last time I
went I used it for order a meal for four, that's all. Something I can do in
Greek as it happens. Haven't been to Greece for about 10 yrs.
>>> BTW, do you know the plural of the name Angus?
>>
>> No.
>
> Angi...as in fungi......hee hee hee
Could be Angodes - as in octopus, octopodes
K
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>
> No its not, that word might be used particularly in llanito
> but the correct Spanish term is ordenador.
Agreed. But the word computadora is still used by some in Spain, even TVE1
commentators
Lynx
>
> It appears the whole f***** neighbourhood is not bothered to the extent
> you are and is happy to have an Eng-only system.
Ever heard about the family that always used to cut off a portion of the leg
of ham before putting it ino the oven?
> Yes - but not for the purposes of driving nails. Just like in Gib we may
> speak Sp but do not make use of it for official purposes.
Hmmm, I wonder what the left-handers are meant to do.
> Believe what you like. I don't feel bad about it. It just is. It doesn't
> bother me. I could lose it tomorrow and not miss it, unless I went to Sp -
> something I do so rarely it's notreally on my radar. Actually last time I
> went I used it for order a meal for four, that's all. Something I can do
> in Greek as it happens. Haven't been to Greece for about 10 yrs.
Me, me me. I, I, I.
Ken
You were telling me how wedded you were to Sp, I was telling you how I have
no feelings for it.
Glad I made that post - reminded me how long since Greece, perhaps next
year?
K
Ken
.. in which case surely it must have been passed as "correct" by the Real
Academia, without whose approval no Sp in any official capacity would dare
speak any word.
K
Lynx
>
> You were telling me how wedded you were to Sp, I was telling you how I
> have no feelings for it.
I am wedded to the language? When did I say that?
> Glad I made that post - reminded me how long since Greece, perhaps next
> year?
You know, we've got the largest Greek community in the World, outside of
Athens.
Lynx
You mean 'los asmaticos de la Real Academia? :) Actually they don't use the
term computadora. Computadora is described as a machine which calculates.
Why do we call it computer, when we rarely use it for computations?
Ken
No and yes. A typical game player might be using it for game playing - but
the machine is calculating how the image of the fighter jet changes to give
the ipression of changing perspective as it pans across the screen. What
about all those vector graphics we use in drawings? To you and me they're
just drawings - but to the machine there are complex caculations being
carried out when it is resized. YOU might not use for computations, but
compute is what the machine is doing.
K
Lynx
>
> No and yes. A typical game player might be using it for game playing - but
> the machine is calculating how the image of the fighter jet changes to
> give the ipression of changing perspective as it pans across the screen.
> What about all those vector graphics we use in drawings? To you and me
> they're just drawings - but to the machine there are complex caculations
> being carried out when it is resized. YOU might not use for computations,
> but compute is what the machine is doing.
Yes I suspected that much. We call it a telephone because it reproduces
sound at long distances. Which is its purpose, we don't make references as
to how this is acheieved.